084 - Electric Vehicle Range Claims - fake or fake news?

This is Two Blokes talking electric cars with Steven Fenwick and Trevor Long, thanks to NRMA Insurance and UNIDEN.

I mean, it's a lovely guide we bring you to the show at the start of the show. Thanks to NRMA Insurance.

They help people, helping Australians for over 100 years protect the thing that matters most to them.

And that could be your home, your car, could be anything. And they are one of Australia's largest insurers of electric vehicles as well.

And of course, UNIDEN's smart dash cam. So if you've got a car, it'd be weird to not have a car and listening to this show.

So we're assuming you've got a car to be on. It doesn't have to be an electric car at this point.

Get yourself a dash cam. I am just a fiend for dash cam owners Australia.

Absolutely, yeah. UNIDEN's award-winning cameras have great, obviously, front cameras, but also get the rear camera too.

Go look for the R in the title and it'll have your rear camera because, you know what, a lot of accidents are rear enders.

Full footage. I can speak from experience.

Yeah, I've seen footage from your car which was an incident. I've only ever really had two great incidences captured on dash cam.

The one was only the other day and I've uploaded the dash cam under Australia.

Amanda nearly witnessed a guy get hit by a car. It was wild. She was in an intersection. This guy crossing the road and a car just flew through a red light.

Missed him by that much. It was unbelievable. And the other one was when Amanda got pulled over by the police.

This was when the old story, the car was unregistered because the dealership didn't transfer the ownership to our name and so it was unregistered for like five months.

So their fault, not yours?

Yeah, well, yeah, it was. So she got pulled over. We got fined like thousands of dollars because she was unregistered.

There's all these things that happen when you're not registered.

Have you got your money back?

Anyway, she was freaking out, obviously. So the dash cam of the car pulling her over and then the front-facing dash cam of the audio.

It felt like, oh my God, it's my husband's car. It must be him. It was pretty wild to watch. I think we can laugh about it.

I think a lot of people forget that dash cams also record audio. So just be careful.

Turn that off. Or in my case, with the dash cam that we uploaded of this incident the other day, I had to mute it when I uploaded because it didn't make sense.

Harry literally said, I'm going to break my arm so I can go to hospital.

What?

So the context there was there's really good brownies at the hospital. His grandmother's at.

So he was like, I'm going to break my arm. But it just wouldn't have sounded good on dash cam of Australia.

Maybe not, maybe not.

Anyway, in the news in recent weeks, and we're just letting this dust settle.

But there was a story about the AAA, the Australian Automotive Association, and it got big headlines.

Newspapers, news.com, TV, everywhere. Electric vehicles, overpromise, underdeliver.

Electric vehicles failed to meet the range as advertised.

And so the story here is, they tested several cars, a smart BYD, a couple other cars, Tesla, I think.

And the story is they drove them and they determined that they wouldn't make the range that was advertised.

And this got headlines everywhere, which, because you know what? Great headline.

Easy headline.

Because people hate EVs, so why not?

Now, I actually contacted the AAA, I got a copy of the route that they take, and it's a fair route.

It's, you know, 30% highway, 30% city and 30 people broadly, I'm making numbers up.

But it's not like it's all highway or something.

It's a mixture of highway, city driving.

But my objection to this story, and I'm not going to bag journos because they ran a story off of press release.

The only thing is that the counter to that is, do you remember Volkswagen's dieselgate?

You know, they were doing things to overestimate the diesel, or underestimate the diesel consumption.

Also, and I said this all week on the radio, our Kia Carnival, the car we owned, our last petrol car,

had a, I think I looked it up, had an estimated fuel economy combined of 11.6.

Very good. That's a good fuel economy for a big car.

When I handed it back and traded it in, because I didn't reset the clock over 50, 100,000 kilometers it over was,

it had a fuel economy of 14.7.

And most of the time, my wife driving was 15, 16, because driving around town is very inefficient for petrol cars.

If I took that car down on a highway, it would do eight or nine litres per hundred.

So petrol cars, in all the press cars I've ever driven, I've never seen the fuel economy as quoted.

But no one's writing a story about how a petrol car doesn't make the fuel economy,

because range is a very different thing to fuel economy.

Well, you think about it, range is one of the first things people think of with an EV.

Whereas if you were buying a, how many petrol cars did you buy in the past,

and you, mate, what's the range on this thing?

No, absolutely.

Did you ever ask that?

No, but people do ask about fuel economy.

Yeah, well, that's one, that's kind of one way of gauging the range,

but EV, it just seems to be, it's all about range.

That's the main factor.

They've even named an anxiety after it.

So it's all about the range.

Now, I, like you, heard these figures and I think BYD had the biggest discrepancy.

I think it was like 23% discrepancy.

I think Tesla was like 8%.

So it wasn't not too far off the mark, but I kept thinking, well, you know what,

like a petrol car, there are things that affect the range,

whether it's the weather, whether it's how, what you've got in the boot,

how heavy the car is, how the tyre pressure, there's so many variables

and they didn't, none of the reports I heard or watched

even gave that any consideration or included that,

that the here are some considerations as to why the range may be a little lower.

Yeah, it's, I think, look again, it's a good headline

and it's genuine research and the AAA are going to conduct this research

because the government funded by the way, the government have paid for this.

And being the AAA, people are going to pay attention.

So they're not, they're an association that's been around for a while.

Yeah, for sure. I get it, but you know, I think it's a challenging thing

when the argument that I will continue to make is your electric car will go as far as you want it to

because I've never fully tested it with our EV9,

but I'm pretty sure with a rated range of 511,

I'm pretty sure our EV9 would do 600 kilometres when a man is driving it.

She's driving around town.

She's picking up the school drop-off. She's going to the shops. She's going to visit friends.

Whatever it is, it's never doing highway miles with a man driving.

So I genuinely think you're going to do 600 kilometres.

Maybe.

But no one's quoting that.

No, but isn't it ironic and can we talk about the Polestar now?

By the way, this is a fewer coincidence from Polestar's point.

The same week that we heard about the AAA's figures about the range discrepancy,

Polestar 3 goes and breaks a Guinness world record with range, I think it was 933 kilometres.

933 kilometres in a car that normally does 706.

So and this was, there was zero modifications to the car.

The regular tyres on the car, I think they, because they drove it continuously,

I think they had, they went through three different drivers.

They would stop and change drivers every three hours.

They did about 14 hours of driving.

So that's a couple of hundred over the.

Yeah.

And I think if it went on 0%, they still managed 12.4 kilometres.

And got to a charger.

The Kramer episode on Seinfeld, where he's driving the Saab after it goes below empty.

Yeah.

So quite an achievement.

So at the complete other end of the scale, this car actually went over the range expectation.

Now this was in, I'm going to call it regional England.

Okay.

So not on the highways again and also not in the city.

I looked at the speedo on the car a few times.

It was doing like 30 to 40 miles an hour.

So that's like 70 to 80, right?

Yeah.

Now there's some fascinating things here.

And this is, this is good stats and facts for people to know about their electric cars.

England's a cold place, right?

They started this in the middle of the night because they knew it was going to take all day.

The fuel efficient or the energy efficiency in the early hours was far worse than in the middle of the day when the sun was out.

Yeah.

Also, it rained during the day.

The efficiency was lower while it was raining.

Really?

So it could have been even higher figure.

It could have been slightly better if it hadn't rained.

Amazing.

So to be clear, I mean, let's say they conducted this test over two days and just slept at night and only did it in sunlight hours.

They would have got further because as we've talked about temperature matters to your car as well.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

So I think they learnt a lot.

If they wanted to really, because it's a Guinness world record, if they wanted to hit another world record with the same car,

I think they could.

They could probably break it.

They probably did do this in the peak of summer because it would be summer over there now.

Yeah.

But yeah, temperature matters.

They were flat roads by the way as well.

Okay.

Yeah, that helps too.

So again, another factor.

But they did specify that it was an electric SUV.

Yes.

So is there a record for an electric sedan or is there any other kind of record out there?

They did really go out of their way to mention it was an electric SUV because is that all

Polestar, can you consider all their cars SUVs?

Yeah, they're all SUVs, yeah.

Are there earlier models of sedan?

The Lucid Air, I'm just going by AI results here, has the world record for the longest drive

on a single charge achieving 1,205 kilometres.

Okay, well there it is.

The Lucid.

We wrote in those.

Maybe you didn't.

In the US.

We got picked up where we were going.

Yeah, I remember being in one.

That was beautiful.

Yeah.

Yeah, so that's why it's a sedan.

We're in New York.

It was an Uber.

An Uber picked us up.

So yeah, 1,200 kilometres is a bloody lot.

That's pretty good.

But for a stock standard Polestar, a great result for them.

Absolutely.

So a good win for Polestar there.

So range matters.

And we will definitely in the weeks ahead, we'll come up with a couple episodes where

we just go back to basics.

Yes.

That's what we'll call them.

Back to basics.

Yes.

Everything you need, you know what we'll do.

And you need to remember this because I've got a whole memory.

We'll break it up into two episodes.

Everything you need to know before buying an EV.

Yeah.

And everything you need to know as an EV owner.

Sure.

Both of which you could listen to and watch before buying one.

Yep.

But I think like someone who's just bought a car could listen to the second one

and go, OK, here's what I need to get my head into.

Yes.

Good call.

All right, so we'll do that in the weeks ahead.

That's all we'll do.

Here on Two Blokes Talking Electric Cars.

Great to have you company.

Two Blokes Talking Electric Cars.

And we'd love to hear from you anytime you want.

You can get in touch and send us a text.

Grab your phone.

Not while you're driving, of course.

0-4-7-6-5-7-6-5-7.

Thanks for voting for me.

You can send us a text or a WhatsApp.

And we'd love to have you on the show.

But Stephen, the automotive industry in Australia really has diminished

since the great days of Ford, Holden, even Toyota manufacturing.

Yep.

Melbourne was a hub of the Australian automotive industry.

Yeah.

And it's sad.

But this is unbelievable news.

The automotive industry is back, well, in a small way.

In a way.

But it's a good way.

Yeah.

It's enough.

There is a motorcycle brand and their electric being produced

in Australia in Melbourne.

And the co-founder of Savick Motorcycles, Dennis Savick,

joins us on the line today.

Mate, how are you doing?

Very, very well.

Thank you so much for having me.

Mate, great to have you on the show.

Give us the elevator pitch.

What is Savick?

What are you making?

And where are you doing it?

It's a phenomenal story.

Yeah, no worries.

Look, I'm still refining the elevator pitch.

It seems to be a never-ending battle.

But look, basically, this has been a lifelong dream of mine.

I wanted to go to motorbike when I was 14.

That's what took me down the engineering pathway.

I finished my Bachelor of Mechanical Engineering

and then I started pulling bikes apart

and putting them back together a little bit more properly.

And then, you know, we tried to do our first ground-up build

and we've just iterated year on year

in a pretty classic founder story

of selling a bunch of stuff that I had,

like my car and that, to fund the first bike build.

Yeah.

And then, you know, I built something

that represented a bike.

It barely rolled, but it, you know,

it looked like a bike and a few family friends were kind enough

to give us a little bit of money and we got started.

And, you know, here we are 10 years later

and now we're delivering customer vehicles.

We've got two showrooms, one in Melbourne, one in WA.

We've got an amazing team of about 16 people now.

You know, incredible reviews on the product.

So, you know, it's just, it's a bit of a dream come true.

It's been a lot of hard work and, you know,

like any business really, you know,

there are some hairy times on the journey.

But, you know, I don't know.

It's just kind of surreal from time to time.

Matt, we know that obviously this is an EV podcast

and we know the appetite for EVs

electric cars is pretty high and growing.

Yeah.

Is there the same appetite for electric motorcycles as well?

Are you seeing that?

Look, it's hard to say from data

because there isn't really a lot of historical data there

that demonstrates that.

The motorbike market's very much strailing the car market.

The car market was very at a global scale policy driven.

Right, yes.

You know, and it is a much larger market.

Whereas motorbikes are a more discretionary purchase

and they're more passion driven as well.

And so we're also one of the first products in the market

to offer what we're offering at the price we're offering it at,

if that makes sense.

So we're, you know, we're 20, 30% cheaper

than our direct competitors.

We offer the same kind of performance and range.

And the reason we're able to do that

is because we sell direct consumers.

So that kind of puts our bike on par with the price

of a brand new petrol bike,

which hasn't really been done,

especially in Australia before.

And so we think, you know,

that we're really well positioned to capture

a lot of white space in the market.

So as non-motorcycle people you're talking to,

and a lot of our listeners would be as well,

describe the life of me in a sense that we might be at the end.

Are we talking, does it look like a road racer style?

Does it look like, you know, a more of a...

Yeah, yeah.

Boy, Harley style, what sort of bike is it?

Yeah, so it's called the C-Series,

and C stands for Cafe Racer.

Now that's quite a motorcycle market jargon-y type word.

Yeah, so a Cafe Racer is basically,

if you imagine a 1970s Ducati, you know,

custom bike build.

And so there's particular styling cues

that you follow, like the rear cowl

and the overall silhouette of the bike.

We've taken that as inspiration

and then added, you know,

a lot of really modern features and design elements.

So you kind of get almost like a retro-mod type look.

I'm looking at it now.

It's definitely different,

but it's not so different that it scares a lot of people.

And it's like any design, it's subjective.

So some people absolutely love it and some people won't.

But we're very proud of the feedback that we've had so far.

So, I mean, it doesn't make any noise

and it turns so many heads, so I think we've done our job.

That was my next question.

I know a lot of people who ride motorbikes,

they love it because of its motorbike,

but also because of the sound it makes.

So how is that getting out across to customers

that this is, you can go to 0-100 in 3.5 seconds,

but it is silent?

Yeah.

Well, look, it's not entirely silent.

Like you do have belt noise

and it's kind of amazing how loud road noise is

and wind noise on the bike as well.

But it's a completely different experience.

You know, so I've got...

I'm very fortunate.

I've got two bikes in the garage.

I've got a C-Series

and I've also got a Decati Diablo,

which was my dream bike growing up.

I absolutely love it.

And it's an ex-Diaval and it is ear piercingly loud.

And the challenge I've got is I'm also a young father,

so I've got two kids, a three-year-old

and a 14-week-old.

And I can't take the Diaval out during nap times.

I can't come home if they're asleep.

I can't leave for work early in the morning on the Diaval.

You can sneak out with the Savick, mate, the C-Series, can't you?

No, no one even knows I'm there.

It's brilliant.

But look, there's a common misconception in the industry

that's been debunked a lot.

And the old saying of loud pipes save lives.

It's absolutely rubbish.

It's been debunked many, many times.

I mean, if you like the noise, fine.

You know, I like the noise personally as well.

But you feel like you're gliding through the air

on an electric bike.

It's just totally serene and different.

$50,000 for a brand-new electric motorbike.

Are we talking mate in Australia here?

I mean, how do you even pull that off

if that's what you're doing?

Remarkable.

Yeah.

Look, a lot of blood, sweat and tears.

Look, we outsource component manufacture globally.

So we have supplies through China, India, Europe.

And that's pretty much it.

But we've got about 40 suppliers across the globe.

And then what we're doing at the moment

is we import all those parts in separately

into our West Melbourne facility.

None of the suppliers know each other.

It's part of our IP protection strategy.

And we assemble them ourselves from nuts and bolts.

And, you know, that facility in Melbourne

has always been our intention to be our pilot plant.

And we're actually just opening our own factory in China

to subassemble the powertrain.

So that's the battery pack, the motor, all the power electronics

and commission that engine, basically.

And then ship those to Australia pre-assembled

and then keep going with final vehicle assembly here.

And that just enables us to increase our production rate.

Yeah, we're at that point where, you know,

if all goes well in December, you know,

we're aiming that December will be our first month

where we produce 40 units in a single month.

So, yeah, it's slowly, slowly, but we're getting there.

And are you a hands-on guy, mate?

Are you in there helping out with the assembly and all that?

I'm imagining you guys are sitting around.

You don't have like a production line, do you?

Or do you just sort of construct them by hand?

No, no.

So we used to have what's called cell-based assembly.

And that's when the bike is stationary

and everyone moves around it.

We brought in a COO earlier this year

and we've since put in place a three-stage production line,

kind of.

So you're still moving the bikes manually,

but it's embryonic.

It's early days.

We're low volume at the moment, so it doesn't really matter.

But, yeah, and then in China, it'll, you know,

we'll have stations and especially when you start to scale,

like, you know, some kind of assembly lines

are really important for efficiency.

So, but yeah, they're all assembled by us.

And to answer your question, I am frustratingly hands-on.

And I say frustrating.

Frustrating to the others.

That's right.

I'm not allowed to touch anything anymore.

And so it frustrates me because I just want to get in there

and, you know, swing suspense.

You're a modem.

You're the boss or what?

It's got my name on it.

Yeah, exactly.

But no, you've got one last question for you.

Who's your typical buyer?

Who's buying?

What would your average buyer be?

Who would they be?

I'm thinking men would buy the bike, I'm assuming.

It feels like...

But the motorcycle market is very male dominated.

So, and to give you some numbers, like, you know,

Instagram, for example, is a 50-50 platform, more or less.

So the audience on Instagram is 50-50.

Our audience on Instagram is, like, 90 plus percent male.

And that's, you know, relatively organic.

Now, we don't really target our advertising at, you know,

at traditional demographics anymore.

Like, those days are kind of gone.

It's more interest-driven.

And so, you know, I think, like, our customer base comes from

all walks of life.

Like, we've got executives in the customer book,

and we've got primary producers,

and we've got, you know, everything in between.

And I think the pretty amazing thing is, you know,

I know a lot of them personally now,

and, you know, they're all just really nice people

that are happy to support the story

and just super excited to write something cool.

So long-term, are we taking this brand global?

I mean, yeah, I didn't get into this

to build a boutique thing.

I got into this to build a big business.

Well done.

Yeah, I think we've got a great market opportunity.

The space is there.

We've got the right product and the right niche,

and we're really well positioned to dominate it.

So why not give it a crack?

Bloody well done.

We've got a saying around here, mate,

that you agree with, I'm sure.

Go big or go home.

Yeah.

Yeah, there really is.

That is awesome.

I'm so pleased to hear that you're actually targeting

growth and making something big out of your own name.

And it looks like a stunning bike

if we have any listeners who have bought one.

We'd love to hear from you,

so you can tell us your own little review experience.

We don't want to just take the bias of the founder.

Absolutely.

We'd love to hear from you, mate.

Great to talk to you, Dennis.

Really great stuff.

Thanks, mate.

Thank you guys so much for your time.

Cheers.

That's awesome.

What a great story.

I've always wanted to build him since he was a kid.

And he got his engineering degree and wow,

that's passion.

It's an annoying story.

He touched on something really interesting about motorcycle purchase

is like, you know, a car is sort of a necessity,

whereas a motorcycle is more a passion.

Yeah, but there's also that part of the market that is

it's actually more affordable than a car in many cases.

It's more economical.

A petrol bike is too.

And so would an electric bike.

And there's lane filtering

and there's benefits in traffic.

So there's a lot of reasons to get a bike.

It's not allowed to because my wife will divorce me.

I don't have a license.

I don't have a license anyway.

I don't have a license because I didn't want to lose my marriage.

Wow, did she actually specify you get a motorbike

and then you're out, you're done.

Really?

That's it, yeah.

Mate, I've got to read this prenup.

It's crazy.

All right, two like story electric cars.

We'd love to hear from you.

And bikes.

0-4-7-7-6-5-7-6-5-7.

What were you hitting?

That's a drum.

Oh, it's a drum.

I made a snare drum.

Imagine snare drums on your right hand side.

I don't know.

Normally be on the left, mate.

Is that all right?

You're a drummer, are you?

I know a few things, mate.

I didn't know you knew about drumming as well.

Maybe you can be...

I'm an air drummer, mate.

Maybe you're allowed to have snares on the right.

Anyway, from motorbikes to cars,

let's go back to your calls.

0-4-7-7-6-5-7-6-5-7.

Patrick is on the line.

Go, Patrick.

Good day, guys.

How are you?

Mate, really, really good.

You are driving at the moment

in your electric car.

What do you own?

B-Y-D Dolphin.

Very nice.

And tell me about the drive first and foremost.

Is this a big road trip?

Do you do these regularly?

Well, we recently retired,

my wife and I.

So we're based in Sydney

and we're heading up to the Sunshine Coast,

taking our time.

So we stayed in Newcastle

with friends over the weekend

and bought Macquarie after that

and grafting last night.

Yeah, just taking the time,

getting up there to stay with some more friends

on the Sunshine Coast.

So how did you come to be a B-Y-D Dolphin owner,

mate?

Take us through the thought process.

You obviously made a decision

you were going to go electric.

So what did you look at?

What did you drive before settling

on the B-Y-D Dolphin?

Yeah, well, I've been getting into

electric cars, I suppose,

over the past few years.

I didn't used to have a lot of interest in them.

Been into cars for a long time.

About five years ago,

started to watch a bit

and learn a bit about some of these brands,

you know, developing electric cars in China

and was reaching a point

where we're looking for just a city car

getting around town

and thought, yeah, it might be good

if there was an affordable one

and then the MG4 was coming out,

GW Amora and the Dolphin.

So we took them off for a drive.

One of the key criteria was getting

an LFT battery

and with B-Y-D and the Dolphin

you get that no matter what specs you choose

with the others that are limited to the lower spec

or the smaller batteries, whatever.

So yeah, we drive them all

and they all had their pros and cons.

But in the end, the Dolphin,

in terms of the price and specs,

the interior, different things,

a lot of it was watching it as best.

What is it that drew you to go LFP?

Obviously, not a lot of people talk about

the battery chemistry of their vehicles.

B-Y-D did, from the very start,

spend a lot of time in their shows

and things showcasing their battery differential

and obviously everyone's caught up to that now.

What is it?

Sell us and our listeners on an LFP battery.

Alright, so from what I think I know,

I guess the advantage of the LFP

compared to the VNMC,

you're a little more freedom

in how regularly you charge it up to 100%.

So given that we were going to just be using it

around town,

we just wanted to be able to plug it in at home,

whatever we wanted to

and not have to keep too much of an eye

because we're reaching 80% will stop now.

You get the sense that maybe

they last a bit longer,

they're a little, you know,

they don't have to do that syndicate

or that worried about how you're charging them,

when you're charging them and up to what point.

So yeah, it is here just to maintain.

So that was probably the key thing really.

And I guess the fact that you know,

rare earth minerals, you know,

a bit less of those,

so maybe a little more environmentally friendly.

So yeah, they're probably two key things.

So you're on it. You want quite a long drive now.

Were you always

a driver who'd like to sort of head out

on road trips or

is this something you're just doing in retirement

and is the car, obviously,

you bought the car with that, did you buy the car

with that in mind?

Well, actually we didn't.

When we got the car, we had a Master 6

or 10, the 2019 wagon

and that was a beautiful car, great for long distance trips.

But then

my wife's sell the door to move down

to her home at one point and

she was

yelling to learn to use two cars.

Well, okay, well, get rid of the Master.

I put the finance here

and she agreed that yeah,

it makes sense

to get rid of the Master and hit the dolphin.

So we were really planning on

just using this as a city car

but because we've got the bigger battery,

the more powerful motor,

independent pension in the back,

it actually works pretty well

as a car.

Now, we're starting to lose you.

That road trip is starting to kill us on the telco

but we'll push on for just another minute or so.

I'm curious, with these road trips,

do you feel like you are

working hard to make the road trips work

or do you just feel like you've

factored it into the fact that you're

casually doing what you can in a day?

Yeah, it's a lot of it.

It's pretty easy.

Okay, we're not going too far

on track. You're up the M1.

You've got your chargers on route

and you've got plenty of destination chargers

so I've used those primarily so far.

So it's pretty easy.

Like I did a bit of planning beforehand

but probably more than I needed to

just to get a sense of where we might stop

and for how long.

We had a friend loaned us one of those

Type 2 cables so we can plug into

those AC chargers,

the 6 kW one, 7 kW

and it's driven to be pretty easy.

Any major feedback

on the Dolphin after owning it

for well over a year now?

Anything you wish

they had done to the car

or something you'd look for in your next car

if you were going to upgrade?

I think, yeah. It's probably pretty good

as it is for what you pay.

The sort of things that we miss safe

and master, the ventilated front seats

would be nice to have.

Maybe a bigger battery I suppose

for a bit of longer distance tripping around

but I think to the price

and what it is, it's pretty good.

So maybe just turn the suspension up a little bit

that might be good as well with the R in the back roads

and going a little bit harder.

That might be good

but otherwise, yeah.

Just say it's pretty good.

Glowing endorsement of the BYD Dolphin.

You're not the first person to say that either.

Make great to hear from you. Enjoy the road trip.

Drive safe. It sounds like it's a great fun drive

as well out on the freeways.

Well, it's hit wet at the moment

but we're going quietly so it's all good.

Alright mate, well thanks for getting in touch

and drive safe most importantly

out there on the freeway.

We've spoken to a few people who love

in the car, you're driving the Dolphin

and it just proves

that the Dolphin is not a car with exceptional range

but

and again, look, they're retired.

That's the great thing.

You're in no hurry.

You wouldn't say that.

When you retire, mate, you're going to do the same thing.

I imagine I will drive a lot.

I would as well.

I just love going to the country.

So yeah, I think I will drive too much probably.

So Patrick's already living the dream.

Well, it's some of our dreams.

It is BYD Dolphin.

And we've spoken to a few people that have the Dolphin.

It's clearly, honestly, the BYD brand

has done very well.

It's done very well.

Interesting you mentioned the battery chemistry too.

That was a factor.

One of the things you can charge to 100% whenever you want.

Yeah, one of the selling points of the LFP.

I asked him because I wanted to verify in my own mind

what I'd learned and it was just simply that,

you know, all this, I don't charge it to 100 too many.

It's just like, just charge it whenever you want, however much you want.

It doesn't matter.

Because all the cars we've got, you charge it

to 89% to maintain the battery health.

So in this instance, the LFP battery

is just go for gold and 100%.

But while we are learning through conversations,

which is what I love with people like Brennan Pickles

and other people who are just owners,

and just learning from people over time is,

it may not be that big a deal.

Especially for people who do home charging.

Remember that conversation with Brennan?

It was like, you know what, if a car is just

regularly charged on, you know,

wallbox style chargers or AC power.

Not always fast charging.

Not always, you know, 50 kilowatts or more.

It probably doesn't matter what you do.

The longevity of the batteries is strong.

So love to hear from you.

If you've got an electric car or you're in the market,

0-4-7-7-6-5-7-6-5-7.

0-4-7-7-7-7-6-5-7.

Steve and I'd suggest we just keep going with Kors.

I mean, it's just great talking to people,

isn't it? Absolutely.

And yeah, they're the show.

We're here of course but they're the show.

I was talking to Julie Del Vacio

who is the more incoming,

the newer, she's been there six months

a boss of the, like the EV council.

And because we're gonna talk to her in probably a month

or so, she's a bit busy right now and we're going away.

So, and when she rang me,

she referenced one of the episodes she'd watched

and she was talking about the cause

and I'm like, that's our thing.

Find me someone else that's taking the time

to talk to people who are out there owning or buying cars.

So let's keep doing it right now.

Raymond's on the line, good day, Raymond.

Good day guys.

Mate, what do you own and what do you,

what's your word and thoughts on the EV market?

Well, I've had great experience.

So probably owned a EV for now almost nine years.

I've gone through three Teslas.

I got one before Stephen.

So I'll lay claim to that.

Started with the Model S,

then went to a Model 3

and then currently have the Model Y performance.

But I'm now well, but I'm now well and truly done.

I was a Tesla fanboy, but I'm off the bandwagon

and it's time for a change.

Why is that, can you take through that decision?

So you're off Tesla, you've had three of them.

Is it just time for a change or something happened?

Well, it's a little bit of time for a change,

but also I think the whole Elon thing

and he's pushing to politics and lack of human humanity.

I think he's also part of the reason.

So time for a change.

I've been a beta Tesla of years for eight years now.

It's time to get a real car.

So...

Shit.

I mean, it's a sick burn.

Wow.

He's been a beta Tesla for eight years.

It's time to get a real car.

Words from a long time, Tesla.

Wow.

Okay, well, let's go back to the beginning, mate.

You said you've got a...

I got my Model S in 2018.

Now, now, let's not have a competition, boys.

So you were 27 anyway.

Is that right, mate?

17, I might have been 16.

It might have been 16.

It was very early, yeah.

It was very early.

It was the very first one

that had the ability to do autopilot.

Wow.

They had a few models in Australia first.

Made me about 40 Model Ss in Australia.

Yeah.

And then mine was the first one that had the cameras

that allowed for the self-driving.

Now, the great part of Tesla back then was,

you know, you literally got the car

and then I got a soccer update,

which gave me the capability.

Right.

So having those cars early days

and then getting more features has been fantastic.

But I don't think they're pushing the boundaries

like they used to.

Yeah, right.

So you reckon they're resting on their laurels a bit, do you?

Though they're something that could be done.

I was upset that I'd still be driving a Tesla

if they had have upgraded the Model S.

If they had allowed us to have that,

I would have had that on order.

And yeah, everyone knows the story about that.

But it's...

Yes, I do remember the story, Stephen,

and I was in the similar position,

but I thought I'd go to the,

I had the long range three.

Yeah.

And that was just too small

and really sparse inside.

Yeah.

So the Model S was much quieter and refined.

And then the Model Y actually functionally is a great car,

but it doesn't have the refinement

and it doesn't have the luxurious elements

that maybe the X and S has.

So it's disappointing they're not bringing them out,

but they've missed a part of the market

that I think was theirs to start with.

Unlike yourself, mate,

I brushed Tesla after that,

but you stuck with them.

But now, it's the feeling...

Yeah.

So are you literally in the market

or are you just kind of weighing up your options

for the next one?

No, no, definitely in the market

and hopefully we'll buy one in the next week or so.

Wow!

The thing about Tesla, though,

is a bit that most people don't get

is how assured you are around driving

because every charger will charge a Tesla

given Tesla has done an awesome job on their charging network.

So it will be the thing that I think

I will find the hardest to give up

is that bit of the usurity of where I can charge.

Scott, the BYD add-oh owner with the gripes

about Tesla Chargers will be good turning right now

for that very moment.

As a former Tesla owner myself

and current Mercedes owner, EV owner,

there are no problems out there, mate.

But let's unpack that just quickly, Raymond.

Where are you charging?

Where do you go that you think you're not going to have a charger?

Because I use primarily Tesla Chargers where I drive.

In fact, I'm going to use even more now

that they've opened more of them

on the route that I take on the highways.

Yeah, actually, I don't do that much long-distance driving

but I do. My sister-in-law lives in Aubrey

so I do that drive all the time

and now the car doesn't actually need to stop

but my wife and dog need to stop.

So we've been stopping off at Uroa half-way

to a 15-minute top-up charge and then drive up.

So that's the thing that we've become comfortable with

is just a little quick top-up and then off you go.

So the range is pretty good on the road.

Have you looked at the Aubrey and the Uroa Tesla Chargers?

Are they open to others yet or are they old versions?

Yeah, well, the Aubrey one is a kilometre from my sister-in-law's house

and that is there's 20 stations there

and they are open to third parties.

So I often see the BYDs and everything else there as well.

So that's a perfect spot.

So I'm less concerned about Aubrey,

more concerned about if we do some sort of other driving.

But I'm comfortable as far as that concern.

I've lived through range anxiety for nine years now.

I understand it very well.

You've invented range anxiety, you've been driving that.

Mate, so what's the future then?

What are you looking at?

What's caught your eye?

Where do you think you'll end up?

So I know this will sound grating to some people,

but it is the luxury range.

So the Porsche McCann, I really like.

They've got a big run out on the Mercedes EQEs right now

because they're end of life.

Sedan or SUV?

SUV.

SUV, SUV.

There's massive discounts on them.

The BMW IX, which I can't get past that ugly it looks.

Yeah, I agree with you.

It's a bit, it's a statement.

It's a real statement on the road, that's all.

Yeah, it looks like a box, but inside is beautiful

and the screen is spectacular.

I'll just count it on.

I'm also not a massive fan of the EQEs, it's like a big bubble.

Yeah, I don't mind it as much, but I don't mind that as much.

And I drove the Pulsar 3 as well as another one.

So they've been the ones that I've been looked at.

I've looked at any Audi's?

I've had an Audi before and I find them stark.

And I've gone, so I'm going from a stark car

and I can't sort of lean back into another stark car.

Have you also considered?

That's an old Audi you had, mate.

If it's been before you Tesla's, I'd at least go to a dealer

and sit in one.

Oh no, I recommend the Genesis SUV.

Yeah, something different.

Yeah, oh nice.

That's kind of the, that's the sort of the Lexus to Toyota.

You know what I mean?

Genesis to Hyundai, that's quite nice.

We've driven that, we've driven it.

Yeah, we've driven a very few Genesis i.

That didn't sound a good word to use.

You know what we're trying to say.

Hey, what it feels like you're in love with the Porsche.

I think if you were buying today, just listening to you there,

is the Porsche the one that's got most of your interest?

The Porsche, I'm in that badge is spectacular.

It drives really well.

It's strangely enough, it's not as fast as the current Model Y

or as nimble, but it's very refined.

The other thing that's really close that I'm considering strangely enough is

they've got an AMG EQE run out and they're like $50,000 off.

Wow, get into that.

I know, I mean, wow, it's exactly right.

So as an EQE driver, I've got the sedan, the 350, love it, very nice car.

And this is, you know what, you're going to have,

you're going to experience this once you leave your Tesla behind

because your only experience of an EV is a Tesla, right?

So stepping into another car, it's like getting your first EV all over again.

Yeah, I think so too.

You've got to sort of, it's like starting again.

I genuinely think, and people talk a lot about how Tesla's are luxurious.

They are beautiful materials, all this stuff.

But I think once you speak to someone who's owned a BMW or a Mercedes

and then gone to a Tesla, you realize that there are some compromises

and there is nothing more luxurious than a proper European luxury car.

Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, whatever you want to call it,

made, I think the Mercedes would be a stunning option for you, especially the AMG.

Especially with the savings you got there.

Wow, I wish that was the case two years ago when I got mine.

Well, I mean, that's part of the reason why it's top of the list at the moment

just because I wouldn't throw that much money at an AMG version.

And to say, well, you can actually pick one up.

It's beautiful to sit in and incredibly quiet.

And it's the thing that going from the Model S to the Y,

you sort of forget how quiet the S used to be.

And the Y, just that road noise that you get.

I mean, it's strange talking about EVs and how noisy they are,

but it does have a lot of road noise and a lot of pothole noise.

And whereas you get into the Porsche and the Mercedes,

and it's just it's just another experience.

You've driven them, of course, already, haven't you?

You've driven them, you've test driven it.

Yeah, it feels like.

Yes, and I'm hoping you guys can give me the casting boat.

Well, look, I was going to say, I think the Mercedes is a bigger car, isn't it?

In terms of bang for your buck,

isn't the Mercedes a slightly bigger car to sit in than the

Porsche? I sat in the Porsche, I sat in the Taycan.

That was a Taycan.

That was a bit small for me.

I'm a big guy.

I just feel like the McCann is more of a mid-size.

I mean, it's a big car, but in your experience,

do you think the Mercedes feels bigger inside?

I'm six foot two and I didn't notice a huge difference.

It doesn't feel like in the driver's seat, it feels similar.

I think maybe the Mercedes is maybe a little bit bigger.

Yeah, I think that piece is maybe a bit bigger.

Can we just be real?

Are we talking about 150 here for the,

is that how low they've brought the SUV?

The AMG probably should be about that now.

No, cheaper than that.

Yeah, wow.

That's a good buy, mate.

Yeah, yeah.

That's a good buy.

It's cheaper than that.

What's the McCann?

The McCann starts at 150.

Whoa, well, I reckon.

Yeah, Porsche is terrible at,

if you want paint on your car,

that's another three-grain.

If you want heads up, that's another four-grain.

If you want paint on your car, it's literally,

everything is an option.

Yeah.

As long as your arm, the option list,

it's like Jaguar and Porsche do it.

It's just every badge is a different cost.

It's crazy money.

I mean, you've obviously got to work out fine.

It wasn't how you're going with this in three years,

five years, whenever it is for resale,

because obviously, resale is always going to be a challenge,

but you're getting in early, you know.

Just on that, as a Tesla now Mercedes driver,

they do have a thing called the Agility Program,

where you're guaranteed value after three or five,

whoever long your lease is.

So the guy at the dealership said to me,

he goes, look, this is an electric car.

You want to be guaranteed of the value of it in the future.

That's one way of doing it.

I'm pretty sure they still have that program.

And in terms of the pricing, mate,

this special, because it sounds like it's too good to pass up.

I've got to say one last thing.

I do need to check with our man, Aaron,

but I have a sense that they might look after Porsche as well.

You know, I've been referred.

By the way, we did an episode last week on the Kia EV3.

You never had more inquiries from me.

I was like, can you connect me with that?

I want to buy an EV3.

Like, I'm telling you, three or four people reached out

and asked for details.

Do we get a commission, do we?

No, we don't.

I should start.

I'm just looking now.

I'm sure it does.

It says Porsche, mate.

So maybe after this, I'll text Aaron

your details.

And he might be going on holiday next week,

but he might be able to quickly let you know what,

if anything, they can do it.

I can't imagine.

It's worth asking the question.

Huge numbers on a Porsche, but we'll ask the question for you.

All right.

Yeah.

Awesome.

Thank you.

And on the EV3, one of my good friends

is buying a car at the moment as well.

And I referred him to that one,

because I'm like, that's a great deal.

Kia make a really nice car.

Yeah, we'll also refer him to us.

I do like that.

We'll make sure we get the sharpened pencil

on the numbers, too.

Tell them to come through us.

We'll do.

Yeah.

All right, mate.

Great to hear from you.

Absolutely.

We'll do.

Happy problems, mate.

Good on you.

Cheers.

There you go.

I think he's on the Mercedes.

But I think the price could tip him over the edge.

So we'll hook him up with our mate Aaron.

But I like he hung in there with Tesla.

I brushed him straight away after.

They brushed me.

I brushed him back.

Sick of being a beta tester.

They did offer me the Model 3 at a discount.

That's right.

Yeah.

But I said, look, I want the lobster, not the chicken.

Well, there you go.

Give me the best, mate.

That's unbelievable.

All right, well, we'd love to hear your stories.

It doesn't matter whether you're buying a $30,000 car

or a $150,000 car.

EVs are EVs.

There's lots of range and model out there.

So we'd love to hear from you, Stephen.

We'll be back again next week with another episode

of Two Blokes Touring Electric Car.

In the meantime, you can get in touch with us

on 0447-657-657.

Stephen, we will see you next week.

I will be here.

Oh, that's lovely.

Ciao, mate.

084 - Electric Vehicle Range Claims - fake or fake news?

Kia EV9

Polestar 3

Dodge Charger

Lucid Air

Tesla Model S

Tesla Model 3

Tesla Model Y

Mercedes-Benz EQE

Bmw Ix

Nissan Pulsar

Hyundai Genesis

Porsche Taycan

Kia EV3

About this episode

Original notes