Brakes are what help a car slow down or stop. If they are dragging, it means they are still trying to slow the car down even when you aren't pressing the brake pedal, which can be a problem.
The master cylinder helps make your car's brakes work by pushing brake fluid to the brakes when you press the pedal. If it's not positioned well, it can be harder to keep the brakes working properly.
The caliper is part of the brake system that squeezes the brake pads against the wheel to help stop the car. If it's not in the right place, it can make stopping less effective.
The fuel line is a tube that carries gasoline from the tank to the engine. If it gets too hot, it can cause problems by turning the fuel into vapor, which can stop the engine from running properly.
Vapor lock is when the fuel in the line turns into gas because it's too hot, which can stop the engine from getting the fuel it needs to run. It's like having a blockage in the fuel line.
The transmission is the part of the car that helps it move by changing gears. It's important for controlling how fast the car goes and how much power it uses.
Oil pressure tells you how well the oil is flowing in the engine. If the pressure is low, it might mean there's not enough oil, which can cause engine damage.
Valves are parts in an engine that let air and fuel in and let exhaust gases out. They need to open and close at the right times for the engine to work well.
Torque is how much twisting force you use to tighten something, like a bolt. It's important to get it right so that car parts stay secure and work properly.
A straight axle is a simple type of axle that connects the two wheels directly. It can make the car feel less stable, especially on bumpy roads.
Car
AMC Eagle
The AMC Eagle is a car that was made by AMC in the 1980s. It was special because it combined features of a station wagon with the ability to drive on all four wheels, which was not common at that time.
The AMC Pacer is a small, unusual-looking car from the 1970s with big windows. It’s known for its funny shape and is often remembered for being different from other cars.
Car
AMC Pacer
The AMC Pacer is a small car made by AMC in the 1970s. It looks different from most cars because it has a wide body and big windows, making it stand out.
An independent US auto manufacturer is a car company that makes cars on its own, without being part of a big group like Ford or GM. AMC was one of the last companies like this before it was bought by another company.
The AMC Javelin is a sporty car that was made in the late 1960s and early 1970s. It’s known for being fast and has a cool design that many people like.
A rotary engine is a type of engine that works differently than regular engines. Instead of using pistons, it has a triangle-shaped part that spins around, creating spaces for fuel to burn.
The Chrysler PT Cruiser is a small car that looks a bit old-fashioned but is very practical. It’s known for having a lot of space inside and can be fun to drive.
The DeLorean DMC-12 is a special car that has doors that open upwards, making it look very futuristic. It became famous because it was used in a popular movie about time travel.
The Chevrolet Chevelle is a classic car that was known for being fast and stylish. It was made in the 1960s and 70s and is still loved by many car fans today.
The Pontiac GTO is a fast and powerful car that was really popular in the 1960s. It’s known for its cool looks and strong engine, making it a favorite for people who love speed.
The AMC Matador is a car from the 1970s that comes in different shapes, like a two-door and four-door. It has a unique look that makes it stand out from other cars of its time.
The Hudson Hornet is an old car from the 1950s that was known for being fast and stylish. It was popular in racing and is now a classic that many collectors love.
The Jeep Wrangler is a tough-looking car that can go off-road, meaning it can drive on rough dirt paths and trails. It's popular with people who love outdoor activities like camping and hiking.
The Corvette is a fast sports car made by Chevrolet. It's known for its speed and stylish looks.
LIVE
This episode 22 of the pile up coming to you live from the
industrial arts library library I'm just gonna repeat
everything you say to library there's an echo in here if you
hear a pop that is our fire it is mighty cold very cold high of 46
today so it is uncomfortable we're bundled up we're in a
quonset hut famously uninsulated yeah one layer of sheep
outside and then the elements outside extra cold no concrete on
the ground no R rating half R rating this room is plastered
this was an old spray booth actually but it's only plastered
like partway up for how big this quonset hut is it's
remarkable to me how far up the wall they plastered yeah they
did it's up to the curve past the curve actually it's about 16
feet up yeah anyway we're having a great time yep it's
chilly yeah we're in a cool vintage building you know if
you're gonna sit in a building sit in a vintage building so I
drive vintage car get vintage jeans I would agree yeah so
anyway here we are episode 22 we got cool stuff to tell you
rose went to Longnash oh yeah tell us about that what is
Longnash Longnash is a long-term tradition for the Gina Dean
household the metals they pay tribute to Native American tribes
that lived in this area but also the country as a whole and
recognizes their heritage and we have food together
lots of good food I think something that we don't really
get in on is the passing along of information like generation
to generation we don't have a good generation gap there at
the Nars so you know not a lot of children I don't think I've
seen any children you know so we're not yeah we need to get
these we need to get these van and stories passed down some of
you people need to have kids is what Rose is saying I don't I
guess we just have to wait she's pro breeder something I
really like about life is the way that we like pass
knowledge on yeah that is something that's really magical about it
yeah I think it's cool when you can do it so basically
Gina Dean you need to rent some children for this event
I mean anyway like I said with there there was gambling
and there was food and there was hot wine oh is that mold wine
I think it is I think that's what I was told and I believe that JD
made it and brought it oh yum I think that's correct
sorry if it's not but I'm pretty sure that's the truth I feel like hot wine is
mold wine but I don't also I don't know I wasn't that good of a bartender
people I think that's what it was it was good
um I mean I didn't go heavy on it
on the cream on the wine oh heavy on the wine
yeah you're not really I totally went heavy on the cream
but the wine I know you went like I'm driving
I'm driving myself you went light so what happened at this I feel like you've
got some news for oh well um there were a lot of pile up listeners
mm-hmm and they reviewed the show live
mm-hmm in person they yes and truth be told they all love it
they're dedicated listeners some even using it to pass the time in their life
a little more comfortably and we love you all Tanner said that he is
chained to the screen printing press and he is listening to the pile up to get
through his day who's chaining him to the screen
printing press I think himself oh what a masochist
yeah you gotta get the work done but he's printing sweatshirts and it's just
incredibly slow so we're long-notion mm-hmm
okay we're eating we're hanging out we're laughing
we're talking about the pile up that's us JD loves it
hi JD said she loves Emily oh thank you yep and they said
overall we want to hear more vanan stories
mm yeah you did tell me that yeah what did I say
you had a look of disinterest on your face
oh that is not true I said go for it I said go for it sorry
oh go for it go for it that's your new wager go for it
and go for it it's my new thing Alex go for it
go for it yeah so I will I'll tell you a freaking story
about running out of gas in the desert with no phone signal
we were driving whoa no phone signal no phone signal
no one would stop in the desert nobody would stop this is already terrifying
yeah do people die in this story sorry spoiler alert spoiler alert yeah
spoiler to this day yet alive it's pretty rough
it's a weird one we were driving Hort's eight door
and Andy was following me in his economy and we are like getting through this I
think we're in a little section of Utah that is maybe it's like a
maybe we're in a corner of Nevada
I want to say we're in Utah though and we are
we're in we've left California headed for Massachusetts
in two early forts and the Hort's van has like what could go wrong really
Hort yeah Hort's van's been on the road since April at this point
maybe a little bit longer but it was my like I built the motor was my first build
quote unquote the bottom end it just like ball honed did the rings and the bearings
and I went oh I did put cam bearings in it like I machined my own cam tool I put
cam bearings in it and put a little RV cam from Delta cam in it who we've used
again they cut the cam for Kirsten's motor yep which is also a class motor
yep and that was actually I there's one other cam I had ordered from them
and that business was for sale I wonder if they're still together anyway
it did run good and we were all I had was a gas a gas gauge
and a temp gauge and some import too important like those were like I told people I had breaks
a gas gauge a temp gauge and a seat belt and that's it all right that's him that seems
legit turn signals oh yeah turn signals are important you gotta let people know what you're
doing I think at this stage though there was no horn I don't know I don't remember but I don't
think there was a horn or if there was I didn't use it anyway just low frills no door seals
very loud every crack in the road just shaking it up it's like being in a tuna can
open tuna rattle can yeah like it's like being in a steel drum but the steel drums out of tune
or if somebody hasn't finished making it beautiful yet you know it's like uh yeah maybe yeah maybe
like maybe if you put a microphone inside of a steel garbage can at a WWE match like
it it rode like that you know it's like a covered wagon delightful sounds delightful
yeah it was loud and it could be hard on your nerves driving across country why would you
want to do this exactly these are great questions you're making it sound so fun the voice of reason
I had not ever considered not doing it perfect yeah in hindsight I guess I could have just
not done it why would you not do it though I mean it was an ambitious drive let me tell you
so we're blasting through this slice of the country that is absolutely remarkably beautiful oh my god
it's amazing just red rock oh yeah Utah oh my god red rock and it is like we're cutting down into it
we're blasting downhill at two earlys one black one white whip antennas bubble windows like we're
cool just the kings of the road so we're barreling downhill I'm like I'm gonna throw it neutral I got
a little bit of a coast going throw it in neutral the van slows down I'm like fuck not a good sign
generally the brakes are dragging so I'm like okay whatever we pull over and like
the driver's side seemed to get hot and I would have to bleed it off sometimes
I don't know what the deal was it's like but when you have the master cylinder under the floor
the problems become greater you know having it that seems like a spot to yeah it seems like
high on the firewall is like helps with gravity and bleeding yeah so it's tough when you've got your
caliper and your master cylinder the master cylinder is a touch below the caliper oh wow
yeah yeah so it's a hassle and anyway sometimes I would have to bleed that driver's side
I don't know how long this was going on how long I was driving against the brakes
you couldn't smell it the brakes what they weren't burning I don't know it's loud
it's loud that makes your nose not work that well like I was oh I have a pretty weak sense of smell
oh I guess I know that's true yeah from when I broke my face so I know I was like how long
was I doing this because I was out of gas so when did you figure out you were out of gas
trying to coast down that hill so you figured out your brakes were bad and okay so I figured out
that the brakes were locked locked up right yeah and then all of a sudden like we go to go again
and the van won't start and so I'm like what is going on and then I'm like I'm out of gas
how and then I was like where did it go and then I was like I must have been driving against the
brakes the whole time maybe you don't know you'll never know well not the whole time you know
that we were you know good ways in but this was daytime yeah so you know everything's hotter
at least nighttime you've got cool air heat is the enemy when you're doing these cross-country
drives yeah you know you don't want you don't want to overheat it's always the middle of summer when
you're doing these real hot good time fan and drives yeah you know the brakes get hot everything
engine is in between the seats on the early so heat's a problem I had to once and I didn't even
believe it would work except that it did I had to wrap fiberglass around my fuel line
but I didn't want to pay for that really expensive tubing stuff because I would have taken the fuel
line off and slid it over it until I get it on it which a little gas spilled but everything was
so hot I didn't want to do that so I just bought fiberglass woven mat for like a repair kit
and then I wrapped that around the fuel line nice because it was causing me to vapor lock it was so
hot wow that worked that was effective it actually did perform better and I left it like that I was
surprised because I was like this is hokey like everything in here is hot but it worked I'm just
I'm not a big like it's a simple fix and I don't like to put too much weight on it ahead of it working
and be like this is it this is the miracle I mean I'd rather be like we'll see but it that one
proved out so I will say like because I'm sure that sounds stupid like uh yeah people use fiberglass
to block heat all the time well I don't know it's a metal line it's really hot in there I had my
doubts about the effects you know sounds like it worked though it worked out I was I was pleasantly
surprised that was like some of the on the road but anyway back to your back down here no gas back
to the gas yeah so we're like okay yeah I gotta be out of gas I mean that's all there is I don't
know if we unhook the fuel line and like try to pump it into a cup or something and see if it was
out I don't know how we came to that conclusion believe me we would have looked like there was a
time that the transmission made noise in another trip in my 67 and we stopped in O'Reilly's and
dropped the transmission and took the side covers off because I thought we'd broken a gear it was
just so noisy wow how did you it was like empty it had no gears left in it it just had no fluid it
didn't have enough fluid and okay we heard some yeah loud gear noise because it was hot the fluid
would have been thin what little fluid was in there I don't know why you know okay I don't know why
I had no fluid it's you know it's a fair question bad girl anyway going back to running out of gas
there's plenty more stupidity so running out of gas so we're stuck we're on this like downhill
and there's no signal so I can't like look up where anything is you know can't be like hey you
know because it's like it's not a there's nothing out there yeah no you're out there it was pretty
far in the red rocks still yeah so at least everything's pretty it was very pretty but it was
very hot and thank goodness I had bottled water in the cooler
and I got down to my last water eventually because I just had to be like our nobody stopped trying
to help you I finally I put a sign up I thought somebody might have stopped what about your friend
in the white van well he I asked him to go find gas oh he took off I said hey you're gonna you're
gonna have to go I don't know where it's gonna be how hot do you think it was it's a good question
I have a recording because I played my guitar and I have like played a song just sort of like a
stream of consciousness kind of thing and so there probably is like the temperature might be in that
because I did say what city it is I remember that part and I put a sign in the back that said
need gas or tow I mean I was at the point where I was like I knew I know I think the next city was
Green River so we were like still 30 or 45 minutes or an hour from Green River I think wow yeah that's
a long ways and I'm pretty sure that's what the next place was so as it turned out Andy had to drive
about 30 miles north of our route to find gas whoa how did he even know to do that
when he got out past where we were stuck eventually he got phone signal
because we were down in a valley wasn't very deep it wasn't you know the low in the road you would
think I had a five gallon gas can I guess and so he filled that up and we put it in there and
I was just like well just take me back to whatever you found because like that was only a few gallons
like how I was yeah you can't go far in five gallons I was worried that we wouldn't even make it
not with your brakes all the gas station yeah did you fix your brake problem oh yeah I just
cracked the bleeder and it would be okay it was a heat build-up issue but I can't say I really
understand it okay well I can say that I don't understand it yeah I don't know I'm confident
in that statement yeah I've done some econolines without same brake kit no problem and then
had two of them that did so I don't get it don't know anyway yeah it was a hassle and so yeah I
would keep a 10 mil wrench under the seat and just go crack the bleeder and be good it was a hassle
yeah for sure I'd rather it have not done that but it sounds like it anyway so we go back to the
gas station and they knew who I was because Andy had been there and had told them the kind of day
that we were having and they gave us free ice cream you got free ice cream and it was so pretty I saw
the picture of my phone the other day from that gas station it was like kind of rocky in the background
and like kind of looked like a Colorado background it was very pretty and it wasn't just in the middle
of nowhere yeah it was free ice cream very in the middle of nowhere but it was a nice gas station
sometimes that can be one of the advantages of like I don't know capitalism sometimes you'll
find like a just like a it was a very new I think it was a gas station that looked like a log cabin
or something you know it was like just a decent little tourist spot that's awesome we're like
that you know they had a whole ice cream counter what did you get what kind of ice cream did you
get cookies and cream cookies and cream oh yeah I mean that's my ice cream that's my recollection
so like if I didn't get that I imagined it and it hit the spot it was super nice of them like I would
have paid I would have gladly paid for the ice cream I believe in the healing power of ice cream
I do too now that you mentioned it yeah I'm a believer I mean if you're you know you're having
a tough time yeah you get a quart of Ben and Jerry's and just house the whole thing yeah eat your
feelings yeah just just you know wolf that whole thing just down at one one go out of gas just totally
chug that whole tub ice cream so you then you got gas and you were on your way how would the rest of
the trip go whoo and these van didn't have good oil pressure can that also so it didn't make it much
further it's last stop was Omaha and we were at Chucks and I dropped my oil pan at Chucks to check my
rod bearings because I was hearing a little bit of noise which I would think to this day was piston
slap because I didn't do the pistons I did the rings and the bearings and the cam and then the head
was machined professionally new valves hardened seats you know the works decked awesome it was a
nice head but I didn't know how to change the pistons at that time so I just didn't I just left the
original on which was good because I didn't have a ridge cutter so I might have had a problem
but everything was fine in there I think it was just I think it was just piston slap I mean it had
me freaked out that whole trip I wouldn't drive over 55 I honestly I drove basically I drove from
California to Massachusetts driving about 53 miles an hour oh my goodness because at 53 it wouldn't
make that noise I had a long way to go and it freaked me out and then sometimes I think I would
put in headphones and just ignore it or I would put on maybe my earmuffs okay and I would just ignore
it because I was like oh whatever it hasn't exploded what is piston slap sound like
it's so light that in that straight six you'd be like well maybe it's the lifters
it's just like a sewing machine noise but you hear it it's like a little vibration type noise too
like like a rattle interesting kind of the way a rattlesnake rattles its tail you know
but in what you would imagine aluminum tapping on cast iron would sound like it's a kind of hollow
okay it was freaking me out and Fay Butler was kind of talking me off the ledge
he's like I try to not let a machine dictate my good time when I'm on a road trip
I mean he liked the breakdowns I used to like the breakdowns but now I don't want to breakdown
anymore he's gonna cry it's very it's always so fucking challenging yeah well depends on
your financial situation when you break down too oh my god like when you're just barely making it
the breakdown can be pretty serious yeah and real scary yeah and very stressful
I mean I feel like they end up sort of fun eventually but yeah they can also be pretty
devastating yeah totally so yeah I was freaked out and I torqued the the mains and the rods they
were good they were right where they were supposed to be and I had just done standard bearings
I just put new bearings in it I mean I mined it and it was in it's back it was like
I think Ford's spec was all the way to 25 000's oil gap was okay and that was on the mains and so
we had 17 000's wear so like we were in spec if you had the 25 000's off original we were at 17 000's
so you know about I don't know a little more than halfway through its life technically speaking
yeah okay before it needs to be you know ground under two than a bigger bearing I mean that's hard
you know anyway these cranks all look pretty good so what Faye was describing to me he was
like you know if it was something heavier you'd get a heavier sound and he was like it's probably a
light sound which means it's probably something smaller and so I drove it to Massachusetts and
then turned around and went to Ohio and dropped it off it was Horts Van and dropped it off at his
parents house in Ohio and then flew home and then a couple years later went and picked it up and drove
it back to California I will say that when I got to California I was like I'm in the state somebody
can come get me now I drove this shit out of that thing I drove it hard and I drove it 70 miles an
hour and it was great yeah it ripped but I usually did that when I was close to home
I feel like you drove it pretty fast when I visited you and you had a you were driving it at that
point that was like two or three years on that you know and I was like it's pissed and slapped
like this thing's fine like it's not rods it's not mains you know and then that's when we would
drive it hard and fast and like something to add to that is it like a conaligned Tim Tim Brogan
and Ken Hopcraft I had dinner with them at SEMA one year and we were sort of talking about we weren't
sort of we were very much divvying up the rights to the early conalign little six versus big six
so the big six is the 300 the little six is the 144 170 200 250 that van had a 200 which is like
from a Mustang and they're pretty ripping the bigger motors the 240 and the 300 the big six
because it's got a big block pretty much a tractor sounds like a tractor drives like a tractor they
just sort of like make this droning noise you put headers on them they sound even more like a tractor
and they just like you step on it they just go
just it's so plain sounds not fun it sounds like a not fun it's not exciting yeah it sounds
not exciting and then and then in Ford world what's fun is that everybody likes to race the
little six anyway so what Tim and Ken were getting at was that they were like the big six
might have like the size and the power but I want to drive the little six because it's
pep here and zip here and you know what totally agree that 200 cross country ripped and like I had
quite a bit of stuff with me yeah you weighed it down and with that camshaft if I drove 55
I could get 20 miles a gallon and that thing wow and I was repeatedly and then I will say that was
like flat Colorado we had just crossed the Rockies we got to the flat side and I was like
constantly doing my mileage between gas stations and like receipt to receipt like okay I'm filling
it back up I can see it in the filler neck like it's this is where I'll fill it up to you next
time and I couldn't believe I was getting 20 miles a gallon at 55 it dramatically changed if I drove
65 it was terrible it was interesting it dropped down to like 15 wow so 55 was the magic number
yep 55 was great on flat ground 55 on flat ground yeah okay but the thing was is it was fun the
terms it was fun to drive 70 I'm sure straight axle gets a little scary sometimes does it oh
yeah the front it can't be I don't I've never I don't even know if I've been in a car with a straight
axle certainly never driven one it's all over the road especially if you hit a hole
yeah it seems like it that I was in between probably on this trip we hit a construction zone
in like this could have been a different trip I want to say this is Nevada and it's like
yeah it was just like the super narrow jersey barrier construction zone and the road was super
broken up mm-hmm oh my god I kept thinking and I think it was in the eight door and I was just
like I'm just gonna scrape the whole side off of this thing hmm just the road was so rough and
they just bounce because if you hit a hole with the right wheel because it's attached on a straight
bar so the other wheel it just has to go
sounds sketchy it's it they're tough to drive so anyway it was after one of those trips like
when I got back I think with hordes van I was like no more straight axle that's when I put the
astro front clip under my Econoline mm-hmm you're like this is what's gonna happen mm-hmm this is
the wave of the future I get wave of the future mm-hmm it's a really cute Simpsons releases
so that's the first Simpsons reference we've had in a while yeah well you know what they're coming
back just like alf sure I want to see alf come back so that's my van and story I'm sticking to it
I hope that's like ran out of gas in the desert nobody would stop for us no like out of water
and I got ice cream quite a comeback yep it was a really hard trip it took me a lot longer to get
to Massachusetts than I thought and Mark and Kristen were flying to Hartford and I was going
to pick them up in Hartford and I wasn't going to make it I was like probably still in Omaha
what did they end up having to do say Butler picked them up oh and took them to his house for the
night fed them and entertained and dropped everything and took care of them and then drove
them to the fairgrounds the next day what a sweetheart and hung out and then I didn't know
this he'd never been camping he went we went to hang out with a local club mm-hmm and we went to
like their this like really cool campground that they had and hung out and partied with him for
the night and Faye slept in one of Barry's vans and he was like I've never camped before and I was
like what I was like when you drove your Pierce arrow across country you and Phyllis didn't camp
he's like now Phyllis Phyllis wanted to be in a hotel room and I was like oh wow okay
and so Faye has hung out and he sent me a thing this winter he went to a van event
to the same camp out and camped yeah sweet so you know I say that because
you're always connecting people you know and you're out like out vanning you like meet somebody
you need to sort of like I love that when you just like meet somebody and they're just like
I don't know they get along on their own you don't have to do anything you know and then they're just
like they're part of the story you know that's like yeah you know to speak about Mark like
I was going through Mark's photos and there was a picture of Kristen in Faye's driveway and I was
like Mark took this picture in Faye Butler's driveway it's funny to have I told Faye this
I was like you know it's just like a dream that like I didn't like Mark meeting you but like
also like I've got photos of Mark like with Gene he went to see him at a car show or like he came
to Gene's yeah you know and I was like it's just kind of like a dream you know like I saw a picture
of Gene at Monkey Drive oh yeah is that because is that where you printed shirts for him yeah and
I totally forgot that I took him there but when we were in Kentucky for Brushmasters
we stopped by Monkey Drive to get some shirts all these connections I know he signed the wall
and I was talking to Horde about that the other day and he was like I know I wish I'd cut some
of the wall out and I was like me too I would have taken the gene bit and Coop drew a rat pink
oh that would have been really cool yeah darn yeah somebody probably painted right over him
Monkey Drive was a screen printing shop that I worked at from age 16 to 22 or 3 just to fill in
the blank in the story there so you've been reading about the Pacer yes the AMC Pacer well first
I'm gonna start is the first I'm gonna start are you having defibrillation it's the early 70s an AMC
which is the last independent US auto manufacturer oh it's the early 70s in America it's the early
70s in the United States of America yeah spirit of 77 well it's like 1969 tell me a story
story is that AMC is not doing well in an attempt to stay afloat they buy Jeep from the Kaiser Corp
Jeep sells so well that it does it helps them keep everything nice you know I read a little bit
about this in the Engines of Change book that we talk about every week and I still didn't remember
that part it's kind of crazy that Jeep was part of AMC I guess I forgot that was a thing okay so it's
the 70s it's AMC they bought Jeep they bought Jeep and that was actually a good thing I was gonna
make a joke that was a gamble maybe it was a gamble but it turned out being yeah Jeep helped keep them
afloat Jeep has a very storied past with being owned by other people Jeep's been tossed around
huh tossed around well Jeep was made by American Bantam in Butler Pennsylvania first right which
where we would go Vanna and remember Butler and then they really couldn't keep up American Bantam
was pretty small they were a leftover coach well their name Bantam isn't isn't a Bantam rooster a
small tiny rooster a chicken isn't Bantam weight small weight no I'm saying the name Bantam doesn't
scream big car company is it Bantam like a Bantam are you implying that because they're named after
a chicken that they're not destined for greatness is that my threading my threading this together
correctly it seems like they wouldn't maybe be able to produce a lot of on its face American Bantam
the name does not inspire am I pronouncing it wrong Bantam I think it's okay but is it spelled is it
Bantam yeah that's the do you think they couldn't have been never mind I gotta stop
no I mean I think you're on a great point so
yeah get up in the morning get it up in the morning is that what I was saying is it so
AMC is trying to get it up in the morning they buy Jeep they get it up Jeep goes great
yeah Jeep is helping stay afloat Kaiser done same Kaiser as Kaiser Permanente that's what I was
thinking it was probably Kaiser Liberty ships Kaiser really done they weren't really done because
now they're a giant medical well they you know he was like I've never built ships I'm gonna build
ships and they did the Liberty ships and then he was around that time he was you know messing around
cars after the war yeah and just never got it people like the Henry J but I don't have any
opinions I make a funny face about it I see that I see that mixed feelings we'll come around to 1974
and auto sales at AMC are down 23% what the yeah so they're like we need a car that is maneuverable
in urban areas sleek and svelte modern has felt futuristic outer space and built from the inside
out outer space car stylist Dick Teague proposed a small wide car with big windows and smooth aerodynamics
it had rack and pinion steering and it was one of the first US cars to do so so it had a great ease
of steering and thus was born the AMC Pacer you know all this sounded really exciting and then I
remembered we were talking about the Pacer I go like for a second forgot what car it was and I was
like oh maybe we're talking about the javelin and then I thought of that little ladybug shaped
it's the Pacer aquarium of a car and they had started developing it in 71 that was so that I
kind of went by sort of like flip-flops that good things take time and so did the Pacer they knew
of course that they wanted the air the maneuverable urban areas car in 71 anyway 74 they weren't doing
well it costs 52,000 in tooling and 8,000 in accessories so it was $60,000 all six 60,000
52 million
I can't think in numbers that big this is what JD is talking about
I can't think in numbers that big
$60,000 I mean sorry I'm at 52 million oh my god
yes 52 million dollars went into tooling eight million dollars went to accessories for a total of
they sunk 60 million dollars into the Pacer program and one of the things that was important
for the Pacer is that it was going to have a winkle engine do you want to tell me about the
infinite the rotary engine yes and it's like a triangle shape it's very interesting inside of
itself yeah inside of an oblong shape it's got no combustion chambers but instead right as it rotates
around each one of those holes or spaces becomes a combustion chamber and it's also known for being
very smooth a smooth driving and I believe it's light tell it tell it like it is I don't believe
it's light I'm gonna say it I believe it's light it's smooth and it's not huge and this is what was
going to go wow when she available yeah this is going to go in the Pacer and instead of producing
their own engine AMC decided to buy it from GM and then GM at the 11th hour called up and said hey
I can't make it exactly if I dog ate my pants I can't make it I mean we can't sell you those
engines whoops we're not gonna do it yeah because I don't remember the Pacer being a rotary engine
well that's because it never happened it was because of smog issues and gas mileage they said
the gas mileage was too good low I thought pay I thought winkles were really good gas mileage
but anyway this is what the videos I watched said were the reasons why GM ducked out of it
so now it's like a year to production and now they're stuck going like what the
fuck do we put in this tiny ass space that GM was like we got the iron duke it's sort of like GM
maybe did it on purpose I don't know if there's any like all right you know if any do you trust
I don't know so they ended up stuffing in a straight six and they had two different kinds
they can't remember one was bigger than the other whatever but the it was so AMC sixes or they were
they were AMC straight sixes yeah one mechanic was like to get off the valve cover to put a
valve cover gasket in was like this huge endeavor because half of the engine was underneath the
cowl so it was literally like they shoehorned it that's a disaster yeah like it barely made it in
that's a disaster and like any everything that I see all of the um engine bays that I've seen
are just like because it also has smog stuff so it's just like nothing to look at mechanics didn't
want to work on it because it was there were spaces were so tight and like all this stuff so
that was a bummer it's bummer man anyway in 75 the pacer went into production and it was the
build as the first wide small car and there's this really great commercial America's newest wide
car and in fact it was 77.3 inches wide a Cadillac Eldorado is 79.8 inches wide
wait run that back the pacer is 77.3 inches wide and a Cadillac Eldorado is 79.8 inches wide
wow so the pacer is a wide small car okay I just didn't think that was like a category I needed
filled at the car lot well in 1975 it certainly was like yeah I'm walking around the lot and I just
don't see any wide small cars can you help me out that's because they all sold in 75 why do you
passenger comfort they build it from the inside out if you're shaped like grimace
they wanted it to be big on the inside but small on the outside the cars were built for
Patrick the starfish maybe maybe so even though it was only about two inches shorter in width in
the Eldorado it was 171.8 inches long and the Eldorado was 224.1 how long is the baser 171.8
it was four feet five inches or four and a half feet shorter than the Eldorado so it's almost as
almost like a hundred percent more glass than a tank than anyone
do tanks have glass
like I said I think a hundred percent yeah I think you're right all in all it has 5,615 square inches
I wasn't trying to move into my car by square footage but now that you've got me thinking about it
it's not enough it was the darling of the press when it came out oh really oh yeah everybody was
so into it they were like this is the car of the future like a lot of car companies aren't taking
chances and amc is out here with a bold new design like this cat was cat wow you talking some job
wow this car was the cat's meow some critics called the pacer the most revolutionary car
in 15 years like people were super into it um it was different exciting and think outside the box
so in 75 amc thought the pacer they were going to sell like 80 000 or something they sold 145
528 the factory could not move fast enough and they couldn't keep them on the lots there was a
waiting list for people to get them it was like everybody went nuts for the pacer it was a big
deal I'm struggling to believe this this is a true story because people hate on them so much
and like I drove a gremlin around for a little bit and one time I got a gas station was like you
know the ugliest car ever made now it's like you meet the nicest people in a gremlin
but everywhere I went most people kind of raved about it and told me their their own gremlin
stories of like that being one of the first cars so I'm like surprised because there was a lot of
gremlin haters or people that wanted to mention that it was like a quote unquote ugly car I feel
like the pacer was like people really hated it because it looks like a weird bar of soap
so I'm kind of shocked to hear this I mean it would have been interesting to have
experienced it like in real life to know what they yeah clamor well I thought this was interesting
too I mean they couldn't keep them on the lots that they had to like up their production you
know what else did that that people didn't expect the PT cruiser so oh yeah so see things happen yeah
and like the for the automotive critics to be so they were also just like it's futuristic it's
aerodynamic they just loved it huh so it really I mean it is neat it took America by storm the big
glass thing is unique about it yeah and it's cool because for visibility you can really see
everything around you but we'll find out later how that also became part of the downfall yeah I
pretty good it was 117,244 but this is where things start to go a little bit crazy this is where
it starts to be a downhill slide and one of the problems one of the problems the pacer story
isn't one of only greatness it's a little bit like John DeLorean who like went so far he was so far
at the top and then he got shot down oh no the pacer is going to fly too close to the sun yeah
it's Icarus okay that's who float to close the sun that's who's fly too close to friend of the pot
Icarus yeah thanks for listening um one of the problems was when they had to speed up the production
that they weren't ready for they started you know having to cut corners so the quality went down
and then also they had this new ignition module they were trying that didn't work very well at all
and I think it may have less than people stranded I'm gonna say that only Chevy got it right
the Ford and the Dodge ones are more trouble than they're worth and I can't imagine what
there's had to be a Chrysler box on this I don't know I thought it was an AMC ignition module but
yeah but they sourced a lot of stuff from but it might be it could be anyway I just think
anyway it was a bad I think Chevy got it right so I'm not surprised to hear that at all there were
70s in ignition modules yeah so it was a it was a bad one also all that glass the interior kind
of started to crumble oh no because it was so much UV raised on the plastic yes oh yes that's what
happens to plastic with UV yeah it broke right down but to save it in 1977 they introduced a wagon
edition okay and oh wait one more thing to say before we move on that's cool about the design of
the pacer the passenger door is four inches longer than the driver door and that is for ease of
passengers that is very futuristic in and out the glass thing is something that I would expect to
appear on a concept and not in a production car yeah because like all concept cars like if you went
to special projects in Dearburn the roof on every car would just be full glass I mean they're probably
polycarbonate but yeah for the concepts I didn't know that but yeah they always they always do the
concepts the roofs all glass you can see the interior and then there's no door handles no mirrors
but like they wanted they I mean roof panels are on some cars are just small little strips now
yeah because the back glass is so big and the windshield is so big yeah okay sorry
passenger side door being longer is pretty cool I think that's super cool yeah in 1977 they introduced
a wagon and like our friend the Chevelle it came in a woody which I thought was super cool wow and the
wagon was just as wide but it was just you know a little longer and it had instead of like because
it was longer it had a little different roof line and because it was longer it had the back
window had like a section to it it had like two sections a back window they're pretty cute and also
the US thought so too because they sold 58,000 Pacers 38,000 were wagons and 20,000 were the
sedans they were like AMC the people who brought you the pacer now we're gonna give you a woody
this is 70s you think they want something like that or GTO's got the tiger and AMC's just being
very direct yes I think so I think that's what happened and that's why so many people bought
wagons over the sedans they wanted a woody yeah yeah sorry had the wagon performance sales
it did 58,000 over 20 so it did 38,000 more so double no not double almost double
what the sedan did so people were hungry for the wagon but still from going to over 100,000 cars
down to 58,000 this is I mean 177 was the spike I think you said I'm like 145 that was the first
year and one of the guys I think he was the head of interior design I can't remember his name
he said that when he was working after the pacer came out like somebody from production would come
in and he'd be like how's the pacer doing be like oh we can't even keep up with it blah blah blah
it's like going so well and then it came to be like oh we think everybody that wanted a pacer
bought a pacer I thought I was gonna say it came out it was new they sold and you know you got what
you got everybody yeah and that's part of like how big these businesses are that they should
be able to rebound from that like I mean it's still gonna be hard when you're like okay everybody
we gotta shut down the pacer plant but they were so far into it and they're not you know they're not
super big like GM where they can just be like yeah no we expected that to end like they need to sell
cars because going back to design a car for somebody like AMC they didn't do that often
they weren't that big well and they thought the pacer was gonna help uh boy you boy you buoy okay
what word am I looking for by you they were gonna they were gonna put a pacer in the by
by you we gotta go for you it was gonna help keep AMC afloat okay let's try and think of a
different word to say besides that but that's what I'll say that's what I'll say so in 78 it gets
even worse with 21,200 oh no is the pacer what killed AMC spoiler alert 13,800 wagons 7,400 hatchbacks
oh my and that year that year you could buy a v8 with it for some reason although according to
everything that I saw obviously didn't help with gas mileage and it certainly didn't help with power
but they did it anyway and the problem that gain v had but here you go the problem with that v8 is
it had minimal parts to share with the other engines it was like specific to that car I believe
from what I like that's learned about and it cost a lot to create it and then it had minimal parts
to share so that was a problem because they were trying to save it they thought they could bring
it back 79 10,215 1980 do you want to guess how many they sold
um 15,000 total 1,746 are you kidding me no unfortunately I'm not so sad I know
yeah 78 but also if you get no 70 and 80 that was 80 but if you buy a 1980 you have really low
production numbers oh my god I mean if you if you have to find an old one oh my gosh
yeah okay so AMC unleashes a staggering number of pacers in the 1500 mark 1700 that's 1746
1980 what else are they selling at the last one rolled off the plant in 1979 something
they had the matador I think in the concord and of course they had Jeep
and I can't remember what they had the gremlin I don't remember if they had the hornet
the gremlin but does the gremlin go to 80 I didn't do any research on the ground okay that's fine
yeah so I don't know yeah okay I'm gonna say I don't know I'm just wondering how much they're
like at this point still banking on the pacer well like dying yeah very slow down well it died
in five years so it's a pretty fast death it went from America's sweetheart to being made fun of
on Wayne's world breaking my heart for real yeah it is really sad it's a sad story and in the end
the problem was that the assembly line moved too quickly which we talked about the quality
went down they were having a hard time meeting emissions and the lawyers at AMC this happened
to be all these new safety regulations for 75 and 76 and 77 they're just hearing rumors of them
but we don't know what they're gonna be but probably you know do this and this and this
so the pacer is actually this super super built up car for all these safety regulations that
actually never happened because of the auto manufacturers lobbied the government to not
do these safety regulations but there was this one woman that rolled five times in it and she
was fine I would say it's almost like Volvo she rolled five separate instances no she rolled
one time she rolled five five times she rolled over five times that's one and she survived I'm
impressed yeah so they because it had this almost like a roll cake like a roll bar and then the sides
were all too blessed to be stressed the sides were all super reinforced which is part of the
reason why it got so bloated looking because it had all this extra metal in there to save
people that gone wrecks yeah it's actually made from a taller car in its section that's why it's
such a hard peak they actually you know they have to grow the whole car and then they cut the middle
out and that's actually waste yeah and then they yeah then they put the two halves together and
that's how you get a delicious AMC pacer yeah that's exactly how they did it yeah also it got 16
miles per gallon and there was another gas crisis going on at the late 70s so that was the problem
but in 1980 also dun dun dun what moved into the pacer factory the amc eagle
one of my favorite one of my favorite eagle is lines of cars eagle is like the smartest car
yeah yeah it's it's insane yeah do you need a station wagon yeah do you need it lifted duh
yeah do you need an all-wheel drive or four-wheel drive not yeah is it yeah is it all-wheel drive
all the time no it's four-wheel drive okay so you can turn front off yeah cool yeah so it's
badass and i feel like they were doing that before Subaru did it i don't know amc is a
national treasure yeah it is a really national treasure we really let amc down i know yeah can i
go back and buy a pacer now well will it help so i think that so the eagle helped them out
definitely they started they they sold some and then they got into they sold more than 1500
they sold more than 1500 yeah for sure god and then they got into um this year the girl scout
cookies go to amc like raising money for 1600 yeah yeah i mean for real like that they need some
help like that i didn't get eagle numbers but i think they did pretty well okay yeah i didn't
read anything that was like oh and then all of a sudden amc wasn't struggling because they really
lost their asses on the pacer but i think that they were doing you know i mean i think it kept them
afloat for a little longer this is very yeah this is very delorean can't let go yeah well and then
they sprang up a partnership with Renault Renault Renault Renault Renault the french
just didn't want to buy exactly what i expected you to say they didn't want to buy a french car and
it hit rumors that it you know i think in the past it had problems well i would have americans buy
a car from people that they think surrender like it's built into our psyche you know i think your
car's gonna give up on the side of the road because it's french well and they didn't have a they
didn't have a reputation for being solid cars either so that was a problem but it didn't matter
because there was a bunch of political turmoil in france and no Renault Renault Renault Renault
Renault axed amc so then the ceo of chrysler liayakoka scooped up amc pretty much for the jeep
brand and then he continued building the eagles until they ran out of parts and that was the end
of amc that is so sad i know i know rip amc a pacer killed amc
yeah well i don't i mean in law in in the end it was the pacer was too expensive there were fuel
shortages all i've learned is we as a people we really let them down like every family should
have bought two javelins a gremlin and a pacer as a golf cart if only we could be so lucky i know
i mean amc i feel like has all cool cars yeah no i think all their cars are great too the amx
are cute is epic the gremlin x is epic um i want to also give a shout out to emily and adam
are two friends that have not only a pacer but they also have an eagle they have an eagle the
coop the two door you know i think it's a two door is it a four door i don't remember i feel
like they came in they were two doors i mean but anyway even when you like talked about the wagon
then i was like trying to see the wagon in my mind and i was like i've looked at these pictures but
i just forget i mean it's cute it's pretty thing it really struck me is like the the v8 version
i've never heard of that well they only did it for like a year or two yeah i mean i thought it was
i've always only ever thought of it as a shrimp car and not having it was still a shrimp car
yeah but even a shrimpy v8 would probably drive pretty good case in point the 305
yeah yeah i mean your ta is a 305 right yeah it's not fast though well like i said it's a 305
it feels fast for a second when you step on it if you've never driven anything that's even
remotely fast wow and you're like wow you don't have to dig in that hard go easy on yourself
i'm it's a car i'm going easy i'm fine on myself well okay anyway that's it i mean no it's super
sad it really bumps me out i can still like think that we all let amc down yeah i think we did you
know round eagles for everybody i just thought this story was so interesting i had no idea about
anything about the pacer except for that emily has one and she made it really beautiful and then i
have seen it wait it's interesting that the real winner in the story is jeep yeah of course the
jeep just lives on of course jeep jeep general purpose if you don't know yeah where the jeep
comes from when i drove around the head of marketing for jeep he was talking about the longevity of
the brand general porpoise the general the general porpoise of it and that also one of the facts
that he had was that it is in the most television and movies what yeah he said a jeep and now that
i've been watching for it i see them all the time especially the one movie with a jeep in it not as
the star of the show but in the background name one they're everywhere i can't remember but i've
seen it you know i'm gonna pay attention and i'll tell you next time i see one i think easy one's
probably saving private rein i'm sure they're in there there's probably a million jeeps and i mean
just even though i've been seeing like the 80 straight sixes uh the 80s and early 90s straight
six i think tremors do they have a white jeep and tremors i know they have the jeep comanche truck
because my dad and i were in tennessee one time buying a trailer from these guys and they had one
and my dad said i like your truck and the guy was like thanks i always wanted me one ever
since i've seen that movie tremors see i told you it's in everything it's true yeah no okay that's
oh duke's a hazard doesn't daisy have a a red wrangler i don't know it was like five when i watched
that it was a baby or six oh it's very young my eyes at you it was five i didn't watch it after
that i need to get caught up on that i guess i should i'm gonna tell uncle jesse well we've got
some interesting stuff going on vanna baby is coming up december six yeah it's coming up prattum
or gone but did you say there's an rsvp and it's over so if you didn't get your ticket i guess you're
not going yes you're not going but you know to the people that are going i bet you'll have a great
time yeah it's gonna be awesome so that's really good for you i mean we're just letting you know
that's happening and like they'll be listening to this there and it'll be it's so cool also keep your
eyes on the fever dreams and left lane van club pieces they are the ones hosting it and i'm sure
they'll be posting pictures yeah i bet they will i hope they have a wonderful time yeah in other news
real quick i just ordered the last part for my breaks for the corvette oh really yeah rosa's been
really trying to move me along here and i've been very resistant for some reason but anyway
yeah the part's gonna get here soon it's true we're cleaning up the garage
because it's a garbage dump right now oh my and i did a lot of work on it yesterday like three hours
cleaned one part of it the cleanest part of it yeah it looks good and i yeah i ordered some
calipers and such and some pieces and they're gonna go on the car and then emily's gonna have the
corvette back on the road yeah after two years oh my goodness it's been so long oh my goodness i
forgot i even have it sometimes it's good it's good that we waited for it to get really cold
i mean you told me that you were waiting it wasn't cold enough yet
i can't wait to drive it when it's really cold oh i know yeah no you will you'll be out there
teatops and it gets so hot that engine and transmission is so hot that yeah it's like
you're sitting on a heater well that's good yeah i mean it looks fun to drive and it's cold but
teatops on yeah that's definitely that's a lot yeah no i mean i i take the teatops off when it's
cold i just wear a really nice hat mm-hmm yeah so that's all my news you done been piled up done
you
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About this episode
The discussion dives deep into the history of the AMC Pacer, exploring its ambitious design, production challenges, and eventual decline. The hosts share personal anecdotes about their experiences with vintage cars, including a harrowing story of running out of gas in the desert. They highlight the Pacer's unique features, such as its wide body and large windows, while also addressing the quality issues that arose during production. The episode balances humor with insightful commentary on the automotive industry and the fate of AMC.
