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2025 Voice of the Technician Survey: Addressing Industry Pain Points [RR 1058]
2025 Voice of the Technician Survey: Addressing Industry Pain Points [RR 1058]
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About this episode
Karm Capriato and Jagan Innan dive into the findings of the 2025 Voice of the Technician Survey, discussing the ongoing challenges in the automotive industry, particularly the technician shortage and declining job satisfaction. They emphasize the importance of fostering a positive work culture, investing in education and career paths for technicians, and the need for shops to adapt to new expectations from younger generations. The conversation highlights the significance of communication between shops and schools, as well as the necessity for shops to understand and address the pain points technicians face, particularly around pay and working conditions.
Topics:
technician satisfaction
career paths
work culture
pay structures
technician shortage
communication with schools
professionalism in the industry
education vs training
shop profitability
technician recruitment
Cars:
Chevrolet Trax
Thanks to our Partners, NAPA Auto Care and NAPA TRACS
Watch Full Video Episode
What does the future of the automotive repair profession look like through the eyes of technicians themselves? Jay Goninan unpacks Wrenchway’s annual Voice of Technician survey with 4,700+ responses, revealing a concerning drop in satisfaction, but also a roadmap for improvement.
Key Insights:
- Technician Sentiment: 50% wouldn’t recommend their shop, with negativity dominating social media.
- Career Development: Technicians want visible growth paths, certifications, and new specialized roles like ADAS or EV diagnostics.
- Compensation: Pay remains the top frustration. Shops need profitability strategies and flexible pay plans (61% prefer hourly/salary with bonus).
- Culture & Tools: Proper equipment, work-life balance, and intentional team-building are critical to retention.
- Professionalism: Shifting language from “mechanic” to “specialist/technologist” elevates the industry’s perception.
- Leadership & Communication: Shop owners must ask “why,” listen to technicians, andimplementmeaningful change.
- Download:https://wrenchway.com/resources/2025-voice-of-technician/#download-report
This isn’t just about attracting new talent; it’s about creating workplaces where technicians feel valued, respected, and see a future in the industry.
Jay Goninen, WrenchWay
Thanks to our Partners, NAPA Auto Care and NAPA TRACS Learn more about NAPA Auto Care and the benefits of being part of the NAPA family by visiting https://www.napaonline.com/en/auto-care NAPA TRACS will move your shop into the SMS fast lane with onsite training and six days a week of support and local representation. Find NAPA TRACS on the Web at http://napatracs.com/ Connect with the Podcast:- Follow on Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/RemarkableResultsRadioPodcast/
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Technical
Too Afraid to Ask
Car
Chevrolet Trax
"...ive SMS in the industry. We'll prove to you that Trax is the single best shop management system in the ..."
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This is the Aftermarket Radio Network.
Hey everybody, welcome, Karm Capriato, remarkable results radio, 10 years in and still going
strong, especially going strong with my guest here today, Jagan Innan.
But before we get into all of that, I want to remind everybody that October is Breaks
for Breasts Month, Breaksforbreasts.com.
We are a huge supporter of that.
Not every independent shop that I know of in America should be part of this thing to
help generate the incredible money, $2 million dollars a year to date toward the Breast Cancer
Vaccine.
Just go to my website, type in Breaks for Breasts, listen to the episode we did about
a month ago.
You'll be blown away by some of the stuff they talk about and I think you'll get a nice
warm feeling in your heart and you'll get involved in that.
And you know, we couldn't do this if it wasn't for our great partners.
More than 16% of light duty vehicles on the road are EV and hybrid.
Is your shop ready to safely and properly service them?
Get your shop trained and equipped to service hybrid and EV vehicles with Napa Autotex Innovative,
EV Ready Level 1 High Voltage Awareness and Maintenance Training.
Hey, for over 30 years, NapaTrax has made selecting the right shop management system
easy by offering the best, most comprehensive SMS in the industry.
We'll prove to you that Trax is the single best shop management system in the business.
Find NapaTrax on the web at NAPATRACS.com.
Hey, Jay, good in and is here from Wrenchway.
Hey, Jay.
Hi, Karm.
How are you?
I'm great.
It's been a while that you've been on and I have been following Wrenchway ever since
you created it, Wrenchway.com.
It's the kind of community where you bring shops and schools and technicians together.
What was your brilliant thought way back when this started?
I don't know if it was brilliant.
It's been an evolution.
I think even from the last time I was on the show, we had started off as a recruiting firm
named Finderwrench and over time I think that company grew really, really fast and the problem
that we had was that there aren't enough people to fill all the open roles, right?
So even with a professional recruiting team, my background was all on the industry side
growing up in a shop, but we had a really, really good team, have a really, really good
team.
We kind of went back to the thought process of when I was a kid, my dad had always taught
me that it was a cardinal sin to take a technician from your neighboring shop and kind of all
of those rules went out the window when everybody got desperate.
Here I was starting a business around that kind of going against my dad's advice.
And so as we were growing it, we wanted to kind of figure out maybe a different way to go about
this and maybe not such a duct tape fashion, if you will. More so, how do we fix this foundationally?
And so in 2020, I took on a business partner, Mark Wilson, who is a brilliant, brilliant guy,
really has that technology side, which I don't, and he's a CPA by trade, so he likes doing the
accounting stuff that I don't like to do. And so we launched that as a job board piece. And
really what we wanted to do was give the technician the ability to do their due diligence on a shop
and really understand everything about it in a way that Zillow does for housing, right? Where
you can go on to Zillow and really kind of dive into the square footage and all of the details
about the house. We wanted to do the same thing for technicians. So we launched that in 2020.
And as we were building it, we really, I think, landed home with our purpose, which ultimately
ended up to be to promote and improve technician careers. And as we did that, we wanted to really
dive in deeper on a lot of things. So one of the things that we started to really understand was
that the schools weren't getting enough support. So I know you've done a lot of great work with
schools, but with the high schools and post-secondary schools, some of them are struggling with
budget, some of them are struggling with enrollment, some of them are struggling with it's all kinds
of different things, right? So we thought, what better way to get involved with these programs
than to streamline the communication between schools and shop? So we launched a school assist,
which is a part of Wrenchway. We teamed up with ASC last year on that. So we co-brand that. And
really, that is just meant to, if that school needs a donation, or if they need somebody to come
speak to their class, or they need a shop tour, whatever it is that the school needs, we streamline
that communication out to a shop. And so the evolution as a whole has really been purpose-driven
in trying to get our industry into a better place. And we've got a lot of really cool stories now
over the years of shops that have really gone out of their way to help these schools. And
I think if you look at this from a macro level, you can see that obviously there is a shortage of
technicians. We hear about it all the time, but we've got to get more in. We've got to be able to
keep the ones we do get in, in the industry. And as a whole, I think we've got a lot of work to do
there. I think we've all realized that we have to put some of our energy down to the school level.
And we have to invest in high school and in college. And as independents, if you've not
knocked on a door, visited, spoken to, brought on an apprentice on and on and on and hired one of
the students for the two years they're in school. Shame on you. I'm sorry. That's just plain and
simple because I've seen it work, Jay. And I've got friends who were just telling me the other
day was over the house and he says, Hey, Karm, you remember the guy I hired from ECC? That's the
college. Yes. I mean, I made him an offer and he's fallen in love with diesel car. He's fallen in
love with diesel and I don't do diesel and I'm going to lose him. But he knows he's got a standing
invite point is, is that he invested, fell in love with, taught him and he's developed a long
term relationship point of it is that he got involved in school. It changed his business.
It changed this individual's career. We're going to be in such a tough, tough way down the road,
as you say, if we don't invest in our young people. Anyway, there's another reason you're
here. Thank you for the global look at where wrenchway is. But every year you do a survey.
And boy, when I looked at this year's survey, I says, I've got to have Jay Kamana,
got to have him talk about this. And 4,700 people responded to the survey, meaning it's got a ton
of value. And we're going to talk about some of the key components that came from this,
but the independent individual who's listening to this, I need you to listen to what Jay is going
to say. And I need you to think about how you're going to ask your own people about these key
components that Jay's going to talk about, and then ask them the question, why aren't you recommending
our shop to your friends, even for work or to work here? Why? God, Jay, I mean,
4,700 respondents anonymous. 43% of the respondents were technicians or specialists,
I like the column. 62% was at their job for over 21 years. Wow. And then the average age of the
technician out of that survey was 40 years. So one of the big takeaways that we want to talk about
for our industry, that technicians aren't recommending their shops as I just said, Jay,
did that blow you away? I don't think it blew me away. I think I was disappointed because year
over year, the satisfaction levels went down, right? We measured net promoter score that had
gone down on all categories, right? Where it's a little frustrating because I think there are so
many fine folks out there trying to promote the industry, trying to do the right thing like you
and so many others that are doing some great things. But if we get half of the technicians
not recommending their own shop, we're really going to continue to battle at this, right? And
you know, I think I'm going to kind of go off path here for just one second. I think one of the
things that as we look at this, that is very, very important is we talk about career passing a lot,
right? And we talk about career passing for young people. And I think we need to open the
conversation for career passing for those that are 50 years old, 55 years old, because there are
so many young people that see how that experienced technician is being treated. And if it's not very
good, which in a lot of cases, we do tend to kind of use them up and spit them out when we're done
with them. They look at that and say, okay, am I really going to stick in the shop for 35, 40 years
and really enjoy this? Or are there going to be other opportunities? And so as we look at this
as a problem, when kind of going back to that stat where half of technicians aren't recommending
their own shop, we've got to figure out how we get that turned around, right? And how we get that
more experienced crowd speaking positively about this industry. And I'm sure you've talked about
this many times, but if you go on to social media and you look at some of the Facebook groups,
or you look at Reddit chats, and you look at different types of commentary going on
through social channels, it's primarily negative, right? And granted, I think the negative are going
to speak up more than the people that are having really good positive experiences. And there are a
lot of technicians that are really good at their jobs and really love their jobs, but might not
be as voiceless. A lot of times it is that negative crowd that stands out. We've got to figure out
how we get that changed, right? How we get those experienced technicians saying that they love
their jobs and that they do recommend that young person come into this industry. And that's a big
hill to climb. Boy, you just brought up something huge. We could go on for two hours about that,
everything you just said about the negative attitude on social. And we're always looking for
an answer that satisfies ourselves when we post anything. And I'm upset about people not wanting
and willing to stretch themselves and learn how to mesh with their team, mesh with all the issues
that are going on. You got me thinking. And the problem that I have when I do a podcast episode
and people know this, my mind wanders when I'm hearing my guest go to extreme places in the
dialogue. And one of them, I talk about career pathing all the time when I get in front of a
crowd and I talk about how to take a young individual that's come out of any kind of course,
be it high school or college, in the automotive future. And I talk to him about setting up a
career path for these young people. Please make a commitment for five years where this individual
is going to go inside the company from tools and equipment to the apprentice program to,
in five years, what does the training look like? When I heard you say our older people,
what happened, Jay, when about that future career path? I started to think about specialties
that don't require the back as much as it would be if you were a heavy line. Okay.
And I started to think about ADAS calibration. They're not going away. Everybody said,
well, they're going away. No, talk to the experts. Some vehicles will change from
static to dynamic and dynamic. It's going to be there for us like it or not. We're going to have
to be in it. But that's not that heavy of a lift, an ADAS calibration specialist, is it?
And that could be a future for an individual who's, I don't know where I'm going, but my back hurts,
I'm tired, EV, hybrids. Yeah, I get it. But there's lists now that'll take the battery out.
That is not the... Yeah, okay. You've got the alignment specialist and the brake specialist
who's going to work on all that stuff, but maybe a main dyag person for EV and hybrids.
And then I go back to this thermal management thing that's going on. I don't call it air conditioning
anymore. I call it thermal management. That is not a bad level of specialty that may not be as
backbreaking as some of the other work we've asked our people. So thank you for bringing that up.
And that's the reason we do these podcasts. If people listen to this thing, walk away with
an idea, it says, ah, even if the idea doesn't resonate today, maybe as you move your strategic
initiatives in your business and you grow it, this could possibly come to life.
You would send your thoughts on the specialists out to me and to several others and a lot of
people. And I think it's a brilliant move for our industry to kind of start going in that direction
because it does open up those career paths. And as you're talking, I'm thinking through,
you know, the opportunity to use that really experienced person, depending on their personality,
you know, which way they're going to go. But if you're struggling to get people,
it might be hard to take that person off of being a straight producer. But how great would it be if
you do install that in-house trainer that is in charge of getting these young people up to speed
and then you get more young people in the shop and you have some ability to be able to have quality
control because you've got somebody overseeing them and maybe even making themselves a multiplier.
You know, if you do have that or that more experienced technician that is looking for
that next opportunity, you know, rather than kind of just have them leave you and take all of that
experience out the door, regardless of which way they can go, if you can have a conversation with
those folks and start to understand what are your goals. And a lot of times in my experience with
technicians, you've got to kind of pull it out of them, right? You've got to be able to ask good
questions. You've got to be able to really get them to think some of them more than others. You
know, even at our own family shop, we've got a technician that really wants that career path,
wants everything laid out for him. And then we've got another that's like, I don't know,
I just like wrenching. I just like being out here in the shop, right? And so, you know, I think
one thing, I've talked a lot about this over my years in the industry, but one thing I think
we've got to break away from is kind of putting all technicians in the same bucket, right? I think
our industry a lot of times is guilty of saying, okay, a technician, you know, they all have the
same interests. They all have the same family life. It's not true, right? They're mechanics.
And I think the more respect we give them in that sense, you know, that, you know,
something like scheduling, right? That was something that came up in the survey as well,
is that being able to be flexible and have a culture where it's okay for your tech to go watch
their kids' football game or soccer game or whatever it is and not catch flak for it.
And I remember growing up in a shop, if you went and left to go to a doctor's appointment,
you'd come back and, you know, you'd get ribbed that, hey, part timer, you know,
it's like gone for an hour.
Hey, what's my toolbox doing out in the driveway?
So those are all cultural elements of a shop that I think could change. And there are some great
parts of it. I think the best shops out there, their cultures, you know, they do have a work hard,
play hard mentality. And they do, you know, get along or at least, you know, they might not be
best friends, but they work well together. And, you know, as shops put together their teams,
the more intentional they are at it, the more likely they are to be able to put the right
puzzle pieces together, right? And the right personalities that fit together. And even
looking at getting a young person into your shop, a lot of times, I feel like we approach
that the same way that we do with an experience tech, that if we have a maybe a high school kid
or an apprentice that shows interest in this industry, we're like, come on down, come on in.
Rather than maybe going through the due diligence of understanding,
is this person going to be a good fit for our team? Is this person worthy of us putting in
years of training and, you know, the money that it takes and the time that it takes to do that?
I think we've got to get a little bit more intentional at an early stage on who's walking
in our doors. Absolutely. I love what you said, work play, work hard, play hard. And I want to
add one more thing there. Yes. Life hard. Ooh, think about that. Okay. Listen, we understand,
we work hard, we play hard, but we also know that life can be hard. And that's why we have
that flexible PTO. That's why we care that you hang with the kid. As long as we know,
you know, gotta leave it, you know, 330 today, and you're not going to be back because your son's
got a soccer game after school, we'll schedule around you. Maybe that's what we're seeing in
this survey, Jay. And I know that's what we're seeing in this survey. And so technicians aren't
recommending their shops. 50% of them would not recommend their current shop to a friend. It's
scary to me. And I want the independent to go at your next huddle, say, Hey, the wrenchway survey
came out. This was huge. I want to know from each of you, would you recommend a shop for repair or
to work? And if not, or maybe it's not in an open meeting, maybe it's in a one on one,
because maybe people will be more than happy to tell you, what's wrong? Why? Stop. W-H-Y. The
Y question sometimes is one of the most powerful you can ask. I love what you just said there
in terms of using the survey really locally at your shop, right? And go ahead and steal our
questions. I've actually suggested that on webinars that we've done that if you're a shop that's out
there and you're really, really concerned about your culture, take what we put on the survey and
survey your own team, right? Like take those questions and ask your own team. And hopefully,
it drives discussions. Hopefully, it really gets people to maybe think about what makes them happy.
In a lot of cases, I do think there's times where maybe they don't know what's going to make them
happy. So I think being able to have that as an opener for dialogue, to have those great conversations
with your team can be really, really impactful. And it's not like you have to come up with this
from scratch, right? I mean, you could go to ChatGBT and say, hey, based on this voice of technician
report, give me some questions to be able to use with my team and then really be able to use that
as the guiding questions for you as you go into whatever meeting you're going to have.
Scary, ChatGBT. Scary, scary, scary. And yes, you're right. I love what you just said,
based on this survey, give me some questions to ask. It's perfect because at heart, I'm a technician,
I'm not a good interviewer. Anyway, number two on your list of profound takeaways from the 2025
voice of technician survey was that pay remains the top pain point. But can I preface that by saying,
you got to make a profit if you want to be able to pay your people the right number?
That's my biggest soapbox ever, but you know that.
It is so true. And I think most shops want to pay their people well, other than the one that I used
in the example earlier in the episode. Most want to do right by their team, but a lot of shops do
really struggle with that profitability piece. And I have suggested to so many people that if you
are struggling with this, a coach might seem expensive, but it will be very, very game changing
for you. And finding which coach is the best fit for you is really impactful. But that will help
get you profitable. That will help give you opportunities to be able to offer your team
the competitive pay, the competitive benefits. And if you're one of those shops that are out there
struggling right now, I'm not going to recommend a coaching group. All's I'll say is go talk to some
people and see who's out there that can help you because there are a lot of companies that are
truly impactful. I know my own family shop has had a very positive experience with coaches in
the accountability piece from an ownership standpoint where you do get held accountable
to some things. I think the better the coach is, the more accountable they're going to hold you.
That is what drives, I think, a lot of this. Absolutely right.
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We know so many coaches in the industry go to remarkableresults.biz, our website,
and just type in coach and look at all the interviews that we've done. And why? Let me get a
how they believe accountability works. And I know people that have tried to coach for a year and
then changed and all of a sudden they blossom because a lot of times it's personality. But
if you don't want to do the work and you don't want an accountability partner, then continue to
struggle. That's all I'm going to tell you. Couldn't agree more and the one last thing I'll add their
calm is that one of the biggest impacts that a coach can have is that they see a lot of different
businesses and this is what they do in their day-to-day lives. And so just the power of being
able to see multiple operations and what works and what doesn't and the commonalities between the
good shops and the bad shops, it can really, really help a lot of people out.
Part of this question that makes me curious about that pay is the top pain point is about
how it's structured. If there's bonuses, if it's salary plus, I noticed that flat rate was a little
down on the list. If you kind of dig deeper into the survey, what's your opinion of that?
I think it depends on the technician, right? I've talked to a lot of technicians that
really enjoy flat rate. They love that lifestyle. I've talked to a lot that hate that lifestyle.
And so I've seen more and more shops adapt to this by offering multiple pay plans,
so a technician can choose what pay plan they'd like to be on. I think a lot of it comes down to
the shop management and what they're comfortable with. For me personally, I do like having something
with a floor so that people can pay their bills, that if the shop's not busy, that they still
take home a paycheck because I think if they don't, that's a really easy exit, right? If you're
just strictly paying on flat rate and the shop gets low, it's really hard for that person to
take care of their family, right? So it's hard for them to justify staying there. To me, I love
the hourly plus bonus as some type of bonus incentive plan because I think you do get elements
of both. But at the end of the day, I think it comes down to what's the best fit for your shop.
There are some people that die hard flat rate, they're not going to change, and that's fair,
and they just need to find the technicians that are comfortable living in that life.
And really, there is a high side to it, right? Like with flat rate, there are technicians that
make really, really good living. So there are some benefits to each. I think being able to...
The one thing I look at with flat rate is there are times where they can't control
the work that they put out. And so if maybe they have a weak service advisor, service writer,
and they're struggling to bring in work because they're not doing a good job presenting
the work to a customer, that has a negative impact on a technician and is out of their control. And
for me, if I've got a high performer, I want them to have as much control as they can over their
output. And so if they are struggling with that, that is one area where I would probably prefer
the other. There's a lot of people that have a preferred way they'd love to get paid. I mean,
it's just ingrained in them. Just like Republican Democrats, just how it's going to be, okay?
It is. That's a good analogy. But on your page eight of the surveys,
preferred pay structure of technicians and students, hourly or salary or hourly with a
production bonus makes 61% of the survey. And flat rate of a 40 hour guarantee is 19,
and traditional flat rate makes up the 18%. And it was to technicians and students,
and the word students in there just made me think, because our young people that are coming out of
school that have either maybe interned at a dealership or an independent shop are being affected by
how they're being paid and what's going on in the talk in the shop. And so they're coming out of
school with a attitude of how they would like to be paid. And I believe that as the independence,
my biggest part of the audience, we have to think, what is it that our people want?
And if you've been a flat rate shop forever, and you hire people that want to come in and work
under flat rate, and you've got a great culture and a profitable business, please don't change a
thing. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think that's where I go with like, if it's ingrained in your
culture, and it's working, keep rolling with it. If it's not working, and you can be honest with
yourself that there's something missing, then that's when you need to make changes. And really,
this is where I like to bring technicians into the conversation, right? Because if they should
have a say in how they're paid, and if you have that conversation, and I've seen it a lot with
shops where maybe you've got a group of technicians that aren't necessarily in love with flat rate,
the shop owner is in love with flat rate. And there's just this constant disconnection of
really what they like. And so it's almost, it turns into this office versus shop type of mentality.
And I think that's an unhealthy shop, right? When you've got your front office folks fighting
against your technicians, it's just, it's not a fun place to be at. Thank you for that. Nice to
have is one of the next topics we want to cover. And have you ever asked your people
in that latest huddle? And in fact, this is a public thing. Hey, what are we lacking things
that are nice to have? I love the fact that you covered that. Yeah. And I think when you look at
it, proper equipment in the shop was huge, right? And especially with independent shops, we see it
all the time where if you constantly are having to update software, or you're constantly worried
that we haven't had our hoists inspected in 10 years, the safety element of it, right?
There's just so much that goes into it. If I'm a professional technician, I don't want to settle
for lesser tools. And if our labor rates are in line with what a dealership's labor rates are,
we've got to be able to justify that, right? And so having the proper tooling, having,
I know one, then this is going to age me quite a bit. But when I grew up in a shop,
I'll never forget we had a terrible alignment machine. We'd have to recalibrate the heads.
Basically, every time we did an alignment, it was very frustrating. And it took a ton of
time that we didn't need to be spending on that. But it was because we just had a really bad piece
of equipment. And so being able to get something like that fixed takes away frustrations from a
good technician. And especially if it is something where you're being paid on productivity in the
shop and you have malfunctioning equipment or equipment that just isn't a par up to standard,
it drives a lot of frustration. And you're not going to get the quality technicians that you're
looking for because they're not going to settle for that. So agree. Let me go back to the P word,
the profit word. Okay, so we need some new tools and equipment and software and we maybe need a
new computer or something. Or how about a monitor over here? That would be really nice.
Latest and greatest tool. It only comes from profit. And I don't think people understand that part.
I just don't. Maybe this episode that we're talking about your survey may prompt some people to say,
you know, maybe I should really talk to a coach because we need new equipment. It wouldn't that
be a crazy reason to do it, but no, a real live reason. I do think if they're taking the time to
listen to a podcast like yours, right, they're probably going to be a shop that is trying to do
better. There's a reason they're listening to this podcast or any of your other podcasts in general
is because they are trying to get to a better place. So I think that demographic a lot of times
isn't our problem. It's a lot of times the people that are just trying to put fires out every day
and barely keeping their head above water. And granted, I'm sure there are some shops listening
to this that might be in that situation. Again, going back to the coaching thing, I think that's
a really, really solid move, but you're absolutely right. Don't shy away from the fact that profit
is going to be the thing that's going to drive all of these things that can help you out. And
a lot of shops have been scared about for a long time. They're good people. They're trying to not
take advantage of their customers, but at the same time, you have to run a good business. You
have to run a profitable business. Otherwise, you're not going to be able to do any of this.
Thanks for that, Jay. I've always said ever since day one of podcasting episode, I think it was
episode one, listen to learn just one thing. That's why you're here. And I'm kind of changing it to
listen to learn just one thing, but implement it. Execution. Think that through. I learned this. This
is great. But if you don't do anything with it, you've wasted the bandwidth you've wasted your
brainpower to dream and think about how this could help you. And so you either got to write that down
to do list or just sit with the people and says, listen, God, boom, got to do this. Help me do
this. Assign responsibility to push you go to your coach and say, Hey, I want to do this thing. What
do you think? And hold me responsible. Next call, make sure I do this. And some people need that
kick in the ass, Jay. They really do. Something as simple as having a one on one with a team member
of yours can be something that really keeps people up at night, right? Some folks don't like
having those conversations. And I do go back to the fact that there are so many of us that came
into this industry as technicians and maybe didn't get the formal management training that we really
should have had prior to opening our own shop or prior to running a shop. And I think that part,
we've really as an industry started to move in the right direction with the amount of conferences
available with the amount of resources online that folks can get that training through.
There's no excuse now, right? You have the ability to go do the work. You just have to go do the
work if you want it bad enough. And it goes back to there is an awful lot of content. There is no
excuse not to improve and excel and to learn and to educate yourself. By the way, I don't like the
word training. Did I ever tell you that? I never have. I like the word education versus training.
I like that too. Someone told me the other day, I'm doing a speech, I go around the country with
my keynote on the rise of the specialist. And someone looked at me the other day and says,
Carm, we train dogs to give me their paw over and over again until they finally do. Tell me
in the over and over again concept as it comes to technician training, specialist training,
service advisor training, leadership training, how many times are we going to have that same
routine that someone's teaching us happen to me? It's so generally wide open that, oh my god,
we're going to go do this scope pattern on this GDI issue that I have. How many times may it ever
happen again? We're educating you on all these things you need to learn, education versus training.
And every time I say that, we train athletes in that muscle memory over and over again,
but we educate ourselves. So back to the career path thing, our education career path for you,
the education that we're going to pay for you. And when you stop to think about the job that I have,
I'm a mechanical specialist or a technology specialist in education versus training.
These are the sophisticated words we need to have today because words matter. And if we're going to
grow a brand new young workforce, let's just stop using our old shitty language.
I could agree more, Karm. I think it's something that has come out in this survey along with
all kinds of other content we've done. I think there is this hunger and this thirst for more
respect as a profession, right? Yes, that's the word, the professionalism of our industry.
Yeah. And at some point, we've got to hold the technicians accountable to this too. I'll use
an example here. We've got a great TikTok following and we have a girl, a lady on our team, Val,
who does a phenomenal job out there. And you'll see one of her clips that she'll put out there
and she's in a work uniform. And some of the comments that come through TikTok, you're like,
guys, can we grow up just a little bit? You want that professionalism. You want
respect level from the outside public. Yet when I go on a forum like this and I read all of the
comments that are coming through, we're kind of shooting ourselves in our own foot, right? Because
we have all of these technological advancements. We're working with these very sophisticated
tools now. We need to act like professionals too. It's not just everybody all of a sudden is going
to flip a switch and treat us with respect when we can't really honor that respect ourselves,
right? We're not acting like professionals a lot of times. I'm afraid to say what I want to say
next. I got to find Luca Brazzi to protect me. Why do we feel that we're a nobody, that we're a
nothing? And that when somebody's trying to prop us up, they're saying, no, you don't get it.
You are doing everything you can to prop the industry with all that you're doing.
I'm busting my hump every day with seven episodes in our network to prop people up. I call it
episodic education. And why do we want to pull ourselves down? Why do we not feel that we're a
somebody, that we're working in a professional place? And it goes back to the place we work at,
the place who loves us, the place who appreciates us. And that's the power of what's coming out of
this survey. Wrenchway.com, get the survey, download it and read it and ask yourself,
how am I going to lead my company through these results that out of 4,700 people,
it's an incredible cross-section. And so that's the reason I wanted to have you on. I just wanted
to talk about this and I wanted to, if you will, plaster this over the brains of the people that
listen to this show, and of course, yours, you said the word. I believe every time I get in front
of a crowd, I say, we are a profession, but we're a professional profession. And every time we get
that, the certificate of the doctor in the office, does the ASE certificate hold as much value today?
You've got to have and be registered and licensed to do certain things, but not in our industry.
We're touching a 70-mile-an-hour bullet. It's scary how the lackadaisical attitude
of what we do and how we do it is burning a hole in our profession. You want to know why we can't
bring on people? Because we don't act like they have a place in a home. I'm off my box now. I'm
down. I'm off. I wish we could clip that part right there because it is so true. And I do really
think that is one of the key elements to how we move forward, is we need that respect. We need
our profession to be able to step up. And really, when we look at something, you mentioned ASE,
that conversation around ASE is constantly circulating. And if you go back to the origin
story of ASE, I think it's really powerful. The whole reason we have ASE is because the manufacturers
got together and said, hey, government, we don't want you licensing our technicians.
We've got to remember that a little bit because it is crazy to me that it takes more licensing to be
a hairstylist than it does a technician. Really, I think when we look at that respect level,
that is where ASE has a really, really strong need in this industry is that we need to be able to show
those credentials and show off that we are properly trained and we are properly educated,
correct? And just being able to have something there that actually proves our worth is very,
very huge. And I'm sure I'll catch some heat for that because there's all kinds of different
opinions on that topic. But I do think it's necessary for our industry to really get to
where we want to be at. Totally agree. We've done so many episodes on this. And just type in ASE on
my website again and listen to some of the great stuff. One other thing is this whole
satisfaction level of our people inside of our industry, you have found that it continues to
decline survey after survey after survey. I don't think somehow we're not making
this satisfaction level with our great specialists in our bays. And let me go back to why this
professionalism and the words matter and what we call ourselves and what we do.
I think internally it's powerful in helping a satisfaction level internally. But the language
shift for the consumer looking in at us is more important than ever. Specialists save lives.
Everybody has technicians. There's technicians everywhere today, but we're specialists.
We at some level need to be training our audience as well, right? Our clients of our shops that
the reason you're paying so much to get your vehicle fixed is because we pay our people really
well. We have the right equipment. When we talk about the P word, the profitability word,
it takes some understanding from the customer and truly understanding why maybe that shop down the
road that isn't as expensive might not be doing as good a job as you, but you can't come right out
and say that on social media, you can't go out on your Facebook page and just bash your competition.
You have to be able to explain why are you so great? Why do you charge what you do charge?
I think when you talk about education, that education of the end user of the consumer
is so important because they have to have some understanding and some trust
that you're acting in their best interest, right? And yes, you might not be the cheapest shop around,
but you're doing it the right way and you're not cutting corners.
Yeah. Why is my alignment 399 and the guy down the road 99? Well, I think to your point about
educating the consumer is if we got a one-degree problem on your forward-looking radar sensor,
blah, blah, blah, here's what it's going to see at 1,000 feet down the road. Oh,
I didn't know that. A chart and an explanation gets it covered. We do 8S calibrations or we have
people that we know that we send these vehicles to because of the big work we did on the alignment
of the vehicle. And yet, we don't know how to explain that. And it's going, wait a minute,
I'm a professional shop. I should be able to professionally explain this to my client as to
why we're what our price is and why Bob down the road. Wait a minute, with that break,
I looked it up on YouTube. That was nothing. You charged me how much?
And you're seeing, I know shops are seeing this because I hear, we hear at our own family shop,
right? Where, hey, I looked on Amazon, that part is only this much and you're like, okay. A lot of
times I think when a customer comes in saying that might not be the customer that you want in
general because if you're going to get price shopped on everything, it's not a fun shop customer
relationship to have. Fire them. Okay. Fire them. That's right. So what are we going to do, Jay?
Let's summarize this up and we can again talk for another two hours. But the next generations,
they've got different expectations coming up. And we have to remove and you know,
this is my dad's Oldsmobile mentality when it looks to be hiring some young, great talent
that's got the potential. We can train them. We could make them apprentices.
What do you know about the next generations because you do so much with schools? What are their
expectations? Well, I think the expectation really is having some form of career growth that they can
see, right? That they don't think like I did when I first came into the industry, I just thought I
was going to go into a bay and work there until I retired and that was going to be my life.
Turns out that I was a terrible technician. So that was not going to work anyway,
whether I wanted it to or not. But I think everybody and not just young people, but
people that have been in the industry for a long time, they want to know what that path looks like
and what opportunities are going to be out in front of me. They also want to know what they're
going to have to do to get there, right? They want some visibility to, you know, hey, if it takes that,
I'm going to need this certification, this ASC, to get to this next level.
What are you going to do to help me get to that point? And I think in a lot of ways,
the shop can't be the barrier for growth, right? And I think a lot of times maybe it scares shops
when you have a young ambitious technician come in the doors and they knock all the tests out
right away. And if you had tied it to pay, all of a sudden you've got a young person that's being
paid pretty significantly. And I think that's the wrong mentality because if you have that person
that comes in with the ambition and wants to go after that stuff, that's the type of person you
want to pay because they're showing the initiative to actually go out and get stuff done. And if
they're showing that initiative to get up there and they are driven by money, which a lot of people
are, right? You almost have to be, then you should reward that person. You should treat that person
really well. And hopefully that translates into productivity in your shop as well.
Hugh just prompted me to tell a little mini story. Bear with me, everyone. When I'm doing my keynote
speech, I talk about the youth that have been hanging around our shop because I hired them out
of high school and or college. And they just graduated and they came over to me and said,
hey, you got any full-time opportunities? And I said, yes, I do. But how all this started
was mom and dad went to the club on one Friday night and their friend said, hey,
so what's Johnny going to do? Well, he's going to the Erie Community College and he's going to be
a mechanic. And they go, oh, that's nice. Happens all the time, doesn't it?
Think about it, right? A mechanic. So he comes to my shop upon graduation and I say,
I want to hire you. Here's the pay. I think you're going to really like it from what you were doing.
But I have a progression. Let me show you what you could be earning in the next couple of years.
And let me design up this career path for you as we bring you on as a mechanical specialist.
And you remember Bobby, who works in that corner bay with beautiful white ceiling and the LED lights
in the three or four computer terminals and the laptop. He's wearing a white lab coat. You know,
him, our technologist or our technology specialist, you have the ability to be there some day.
But we've got to come up with a 50 hour training program over the next two or three years. We're
probably going to send you to a conference or two. You're willing to do all of that. It's all set up
in the job description. It's all set up in the career path. Well, he graduates. It gets a job
with me. Mom and dad are at the club that Friday night after he gets his job and they say, so
Johnny just graduated. What is he going to do? Be a mechanic? And mom says, no,
he's going to be a mechanical specialist as he works his career toward being
a technologist in the automotive field. And they go, oh, wow. Those are the kinds of stories I love
to tell to people to get them a warm fuzzy about why we're so important and professional and
significant. But we have a lazy way of, yeah, you want to go and work in the bay and we don't
have any plans for people. Why accept the job as a young person today if there is no career path
to both of our points? So spot on. And I think that relationship that you just talked about,
the parent-child relationship is so key. And I'll match your story with a separate story that I had
individually where we had this young technician, this wasn't at my family shop, this was at a
different shop that I managed, that he loved working and just loved being in the shop. And
I went to his tech school graduation and he was very productive right off the bat.
Just an absolute rock star. And his parents, his dad was a farmer, his mother was an attorney,
his grandmother was a very successful business person. Well, his dad was often a different
conversation. His mother and grandmother at graduation came over and started talking to me.
And they said, just so you know, this is a short-term thing for him. He is going to be a tech
for maybe a few years and then he's going to go back to school and do something different.
Said, understand, I'm not going to argue against the parents, but then I get back to the shop
the following week and I pull the individual in and just the perfect person, just really kind,
really, really smart and really respectful, everything that you'd want in not only a young
person, any person. And I said, your mother and your grandmother said that this is not
the long-term thing for you. And I just want to make sure that we're on the same page. And as we
kind of lay out training and everything like that, that will probably have some of an impact on
what we're able to do with you. And he goes, man, I just want to wrench. Like, I love doing this.
And my parents and my grandparents, they want me to do something different, but this is truly what
I want to do. And so their own family had this conflict of what his best interests were. And
he was already making great money as a young person, didn't have student loan debt, didn't
have a lot of the baggage that comes along with having to go back to school. But he had this
pressure from his family to pursue outside interests, to pursue things outside of our industry.
And he stuck with it. And he battled against his family and just saying that this is what I love
to do. This is what I want to do for the rest of my life. And I believe to this day, still in a
shop and probably doing well, doing very well. Yeah, absolutely. For the amount of work he was
putting out, he was doing really, really well back then. I can only imagine what he's doing now.
I love to hear very well, really, really well. And those are great comments when it comes to what
people can earn in our industry. But you got to have a profitable shop with a great culture,
good team commitment to for a continuing education. I had a blast. I can't believe this
has gone so fast. It was like we just started just like we just started and kind of picked
up from where we left off many years ago, right? It's really always a lot of fun to talk with you.
I'm such a fan of what you do and the whole lineup of podcasters that you now have.
There are a lot of them that I listen to regularly and really, really top notch quality on all of
them. So kudos to you and everybody on your team for all of the good work that you're doing in this
industry. It is really leading the way in something that I look forward to listening to.
You guys just do a phenomenal work. Well, Jay, you are doing some great things for our industry,
your own podcast and all this stuff at wrenchway.com. Please get on that website, take a look at it,
and continue this survey. Don't stop because I'm going to repeat that. Please get the survey,
download it, read it, yellow markers, yellow highlighters, pen. Look at this thing and then
ask yourself, any of my people think this way? And if they do and you've got great plans for a
great business, great profitable business hiring really great people and your people think like
this and there's some gaps, then figure out how to fill it, figure out how to get close to your
people. Use the voice of technician survey from wrenchway to help create your new two or three
year plan. Wow, Jay Ganinen, wrenchway.com. If you learned anything from this, then go and do something
about it.
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