The Toyota BZ is a new electric car from Toyota. It's an updated version of a previous model called the BZ4X, and it has better power and longer driving range.
The Toyota bZ4X is an electric SUV that doesn't need gas to run. It's designed to be efficient and is a good choice for people looking for an environmentally friendly car.
'Beyond Zero' is a phrase used by Toyota to show that their cars aim to be environmentally friendly and help reduce pollution. It means they want to go beyond just being zero-emission.
The Toyota C-HR is a small SUV that looks trendy and is easy to drive around the city. It's a good choice for people who want a compact car that still has some space inside.
The Subaru Uncharted is a cool idea for a car that Subaru is thinking about making. It's designed for people who love going on adventures and exploring off-road.
Regen levels are settings in electric cars that let you control how much energy you get back when you slow down. If you set it higher, you can recharge the battery more while braking.
The North American charging standard is the type of plug used for charging electric cars in the U.S. and Canada. It makes it simpler to charge your car at different stations without needing special adapters.
The Subaru Solterra is Subaru's first electric SUV. It can handle different types of roads and is made for people who love outdoor adventures while being good for the environment.
An electric vehicle is a type of car that runs on electricity instead of gasoline. This makes them cleaner for the environment and can save money on fuel.
The Volkswagen Tiguan is a small SUV that offers useful features like a place to charge your phone without wires. It's designed to be convenient and user-friendly.
The Toyota Prius is a car that uses both gas and electricity to save fuel. It has been popular for its ability to go a long distance on a small amount of gas.
Regenerative braking is a system in electric cars that helps recharge the battery when you slow down. Instead of wasting energy, it captures some of it and sends it back to the battery, making the car more efficient.
One pedal drive means you can speed up and slow down your electric car using just the gas pedal. When you take your foot off the pedal, the car slows down, which can make driving easier and smoother.
One pedal driving means you can control the car's speed using just the gas pedal. When you let go of the pedal, the car slows down on its own, which can make driving easier.
E-Step is a setting in some electric cars that makes the car slow down more when you take your foot off the gas. It helps with braking and can make driving feel smoother.
Japanese law says that cars must be able to stop using the brake pedal. This rule means that electric cars in Japan can't fully rely on just the gas pedal to stop.
The Nissan Leaf is a popular electric car that is easy to drive and great for everyday use. It has a good amount of space inside and is known for being affordable compared to other electric vehicles.
The Mustang Mach-E is an electric SUV from Ford that carries the Mustang name. It's designed to be stylish and fun to drive, while also being environmentally friendly since it runs on electricity instead of gasoline.
The depreciation curve shows how much value a car loses over time. Cars lose a lot of value quickly in the first few years, so buying a used car can save you money.
Certified pre-owned cars are used cars that have been checked and approved by the manufacturer. They usually come with a warranty, which means you have some protection if something goes wrong.
The Toyota Land Cruiser is a large SUV that can handle rough terrains and is known for being very reliable. It's a popular choice for people who need a tough vehicle for outdoor activities.
The Toyota 4Runner is a smaller SUV compared to the Land Cruiser, designed for off-road driving and outdoor adventures. It's known for being tough and reliable.
The Kia EV9 is a new electric SUV that will have lots of room and cool technology. It's made for families and people who want a modern, eco-friendly car.
The Tesla Model Y is an electric SUV that doesn't use gas. It's known for being high-tech, having a lot of space inside, and being good for the environment.
The Tesla Model X is a fancy electric SUV that has unique doors that open up like wings. It's roomy inside and has a lot of high-tech features, making it popular among electric car fans.
The Volvo EX90 is a new electric SUV from Volvo that focuses on being safe and good for the planet. It's designed to be roomy and packed with modern features.
LIVE
Hey, welcome back. I'm Keith Barry. I'm Michael Croson and I'm Mike Monticello. And this week
we are talking about the Toyota BZ. You know, this is a new, slightly updated, slightly
renamed version of the car that used to be known as the BZ4X. They dropped the 4X. It has more
horsepower. It has a bigger range. It has a Tesla style charge port. And, you know, we're very
interested in seeing what happens because the BZ4X was surprisingly popular despite the fact
that it wasn't that great of a car. So we just purchased one for our test program and all three
of us was spent, you know, I know you spent a lot of time in it. We spent some time in it. So, you
know, what do we like about it so far? I think exactly what you said, the increased power,
the increased range, and it's just a nice thing to drive. You'll forget all the other stuff or any
kind of maybe range anxiety that you had in the cold weather. We might find out about here in a
minute. But it's just sort of a nice thing to drive. It drove really well. Got in here just
through on some music and had a nice drive home. So just it's just sort of a car. There's nothing
about it, which is a lot of these newer EVs have something that's sort of finicky about them.
We'll get to that. I think a couple of my dislikes. But overall, it was just a pleasant
thing to drive. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Actually, I mean, I think one of the best things about it is,
is the name change, believe it or not. I mean, I know that sounds silly. But BZ4X was just such
a strange name. And, you know, I can't imagine what it meant to customers, right? Like, what a
weird thing to call a car. I mean, do you know what the BZ actually stands for? Beyond zero.
That's correct. Yeah. What are the four X stands for? Is that what you, you were testing me on?
I was just curious if you knew. Because we actually, when we were doing our electric vehicle, 70
mile an hour highway range test, we were trying to come up with a name that was better than the
70 mile an hour electric vehicle highway range test, believe it or not. And beyond zero had come
up because we were driving the cars to zero and beyond. And then we realized that that's what the
BZ and BZX4X, whatever they used to call this thing was. So we're like, oh, we can't use that
name. So can't use that. So I do think it's smart that they changed the name. I should have never
called it that in the first place. Although now it's actually weird because if you think about it,
it's a Toyota, right? And of course, we know it's similar to the Subaru version. But, you know,
Subaru has a car called the BRZ, right? The sports car. So now you've got this. Couldn't be more
different. Right. So you've got this Toyota BZ and a Subaru BRZ. And it was just a little confusing
for dum-dums like me. And to make it even more confusing, there's another BZ called the BZ
Woodland, which is a totally different car. It's six inches longer. And that's the same as the
Subaru Trailseeker. Correct. And then there's another Toyota EV called the CHR, which is kind
of similar to the Subaru Uncharted. So there are like six cars with similar names that are similar.
Okay. So I take back that the name's an improvement. It's actually gotten worse, I guess.
When you think about all the different weird names that mean nothing. And yeah, it's all over the
place now. But I totally agree with Mike that it's just a pleasant powertrain. You know, like,
we have driven some EVs that have had some issues in terms of, you know, the power delivery,
whether it's too abrupt or whatever. This one is just very pleasant. And it's nice to have that
extra horsepower. 338, I think it had 214 before for the all-wheel drive models. And it just felt
very weak before. Now it's got plenty of power from the stop, right? And even some lower powered EVs
when they get up to about 60, 65 miles an hour and you punch it, there's hardly anything left.
This still has some good sauce left. So I mean, from that perspective, and when you're on the
throttle, it's smooth. When you back off the throttle, it's smooth. So I think there's some
real positives. And then it's nice. There's nice things like the fact that you can, they've made
it very easy to adjust the regen levels. I love that it has the pedals. Right. It's great. There
some real positives to that. And then, like you said, the next charge port, you know,
North American charging standard, I think you mentioned that that now comes standard with,
so now it's very easy to go to a Tesla supercharger. It opens up a lot of possibilities.
You don't need an adapter to use that. And so there's, I think there's a lot of real positives.
Yeah, it kind of used to be the BZ4X was a car that people bought kind of, I think from what I
saw, it was sort of a price sensitive kind of thing. There were some really good deals on it.
It's a Toyota. So a lot of people sort of go and buy a Toyota by default.
This feels like even if they go and buy it by default, they won't be disappointed.
The other thing is also the charging that the old one had some of the slowest charging of any car
on the market. And this one still isn't super fast, but it is certainly an improvement. Yeah.
And I think probably with the extra range and this increase in charging speed,
you could get away with road tripping this car where the Solterra or the,
whatever the old BZ was called, you wouldn't want to do that because it was so slow to charge and
the range was so low. I feel like a lot of people bought them just as their commuter as an appliance
to and from work charge. You know, while you're sleeping, that makes sense. But as far as waiting
for the thing to charge, you know, wasn't a good use of time. But I think you're right though,
Keith. It was a, it's, Toyota is a known quantity, right? So even though maybe electric
Toyotas aren't a known quantity, I bet a lot of the people that bought them,
that bought the BZ4X has bought it because, well, it's a Toyota, at least it's going to,
it has a good chance of being reliable. Whereas there's a lot of EVs out there that
you're just not sure, right? And we know that they've been working on,
they've been working on regenerative brakes for 30 years. They've been working on,
you know, they've been working on the components of this vehicle, aside from the actual,
you know, battery for, you know,
almost longer than anybody really. Exactly. Exactly. Because of all their hybrids.
Because of all their hybrids. And they can take all of that, all of that knowledge or
learnings, as people would call it nowadays, and put it into a new, into, you know, an all-new
electric vehicle. Now, I would say some of the issues with the car have to do with Toyota's
attitude towards EVs in general, which has been, I generously describe it as, you know,
kicking and screaming, being dragged into the 21st century. Like even the original
BZ4X kind of. Even originally. And this one here is, I mean, I would not say that it is a class
leading EV by any chance. And when Toyota enters a segment, they tend to, they tend to dominate it.
And it does not feel like that's the case here. Can I, before we kind of get to the dislikes,
can I just mention two other things that I wanted that I think are real positives about the car?
And this is, again, it's going to sound silly, like, like my positive that the name has been
changed. Exterior door handles. They're conventional. Oh, yeah. Yeah. To find that in an EV is so rare
these days. And so refreshing that you, there's nothing wonky about having to, does it have to
pop out? Or how do you, does it lift up? You know, you just pull out like a normal thing. And I think
that's a very positive thing that they're very Toyota of them, just something simple that's
going to work. And going away from the trend that everyone else seems to want to do. Oh,
it's an EV. It has to have these retractable, you know, flush door handles, which nobody wants.
Exactly. We even, we have a literally a petition that people are signing to try and get rid of
these things. Right. Yeah. And then the other thing I think that is kind of a positive, but
will also end up being a negative that I'll bring up later is because of the way they have the,
the instrument screen in front of the driver, kind of this high instrument screen, it means you can
have the steering wheel in as low of a position as you want without blocking anything. And that,
you know, we've seen more and more cars that you're, you're, when you bring the wheel down to a
lower position, now you're blocking some important stuff like the turn signal icons or
headlight icons in the driver screen. And that's not happening here. So I mean, that's a real positive.
It is crazy to me that we have to call out as positives door handles that work and gauge clusters
that you can see. Okay. That's a fair point. But I'm glad you did because it just shows how
ridiculous some designers have gone. And it's not an EV thing. It's a fact that
designers think that people want futuristic when they buy an EV. There's nothing inherent about
an EV that means that you have to have a digital dashboard that's blocked by the, by the, by the
steering wheel. So can we talk about negatives now? Yeah, please. I feel like you want to start.
I know there's one that I think I'm going to steal your thunder. So I'm going to steal away.
So we all at CR have kind of our pet peeves with vehicles. And I know yours is one of mine.
One of yours is not just me, but it's, it's, it is something you call center console intrusion.
And this is one of the worst center. The whole car is a center console.
Yeah. I mean, this was my number one complaint with the car. Yeah. And it would keep me from
buying the one for sure. Because you're a big guy. I don't really fit this car. It's very narrow.
You have a lot of door panel intrusion, a lot of console protrusion. The console is very wide,
nice phone charging situation there. But yeah, I just don't fit in it. And I would not buy it
because of that. So like your right knee is totally scrunched up against the console, right?
And even with you as well, right, Keith? Yeah. When I first sit in the car, I say, oh,
this is great. I have so much room. This is wonderful. And then, you know, as you drive,
you kind of settle into place and you reach for something. And then I found, and it isn't just
that the center console is there. It's that it has all these kind of lumps and bumps.
Very uncomfortable up against whatever part of your leg is making contact.
None. None at all. And also, I know, you know, it's nice that it has, you know, a place to put
your phone, but that's all it has. It has these two giant wireless phone chargers. And, you know,
between... I've never been able to figure out why you would want a wireless phone charger.
I'm partially... It's because I have this case here that I have my, you know, my wallet... It's a
wallet case. So I have my, you know, all my credit cards and IDs and stuff. Got money in there?
You know, and I keep it on my personal. It's all in one place because I don't want to carry the
George Costanza wallet. So I have it all in one place. But that means I can't use the charger.
Every time I take my phone out of the case and I put it in a wireless charger, the phone gets hot,
it doesn't work, it slides around. And that's all there is. And there's no way to turn it off.
So you can't just throw stuff there. That annoys the heck out of me. I want to be able to choose
what I do with a center console. And this car is telling me, nope, there are two... What if you
were very alone in life? And you... And there are two of these chargers and it's just reminding you.
What if someone... What if you just got dumped and you're driving home and it's like, oh no, I only...
There's no... I need someone to put their phone in my second charger. So this is not a car for
heartbreak. No, it is not. It is not. It will remind you of it. Anyhow. This has really taken a
dark turn. It has. Yeah, I'm sorry. If we need to talk after we can talk. Yeah, no, no, I'm fine.
100% get what you're saying. At the same time, I do... I have enjoyed seeing more and more vehicles
come with dual phone charging pads. And of course, it's always interesting where they put them.
And 100%, this has taken up some real valuable space. But I happen to have a girlfriend whose
phone somehow is never, ever charged. Ever. It's never charged. And so the first thing she's going
to do when she gets in the car is, can I plug it in? Or can I kind of use the phone charger?
Now there's two, so I don't have to worry about that. But I will also say that to your point,
they typically don't charge as fast, right? So it's like you have it on there. It's like,
wait, it really didn't gain that much. So to your point of, okay, it doesn't charge that quickly.
It's taken up a lot of space. Maybe not the best use, right? She's texting her friends about how
great you are. And all the cool cars that you bring home. That's what it is. Like electric
Toyotas. Yeah. And I sort of like it as well. You like it? I spend usually less time in cars and
anyone sort of go. I'm usually in them for a day or maybe two. I cycle through a lot of the cars
that, you know, have problems. You know, Monty will have a car and say, this car is a problem.
He gets out of it. I jump in it to check it out. And then it has to go to the dealer.
So I'm a problem. I'm in and out of cars. So I rarely sort of like get set up like I'm at home
in the car. I never have the right cable, that sort of thing. So I always like having a wireless
charger that works. Some cars, they just don't work in ever. Yeah. And I like the two because I also
tend to carry two phones. I have my phone, but I also have a consumer reports phone that I often
carry that has all the apps and stuff like that because that phone never shuts up. It just ding,
ding, dings all the time. But I like to have it, especially on the weekend, because our people are
out in these cars and they have problems and like I can unlock the car that they like. That's the
I've charged somewhere and you get a notification. I don't want to lose apps on my phone because
it never shuts up. So I do often carry these two phones. So it is kind of nice to have the
wireless chargers that way. Neither one is dead and I never ever have the right cable.
I don't know. I just I just think the real estate could be better used by something else.
No question. Yeah. You know, put it in a shelf, put it somewhere else, put it underneath. But it
just doesn't it just feels and I'm sure that that has something to do with the battery design
and the packaging. But it just feels like the car is vertical in like a pocket or something like
that. And yeah, like the Volkswagen what is it that Tiguan has that with the vertical and it's
awesome. I even think the Prius had a slot for your phone. So I mean, Toyota's done it before.
Exactly. This may be the longest three people have ever talked about wireless phone charging
phones. Dave will fix that. Oh, yeah, I see him over there. Yeah. I see a hand in like segments
going. Yeah. Yeah. All right. What else do we not like about it?
The longer driving range is great in theory. But it's very cold right now. It's very cold
in Connecticut right now. And so we are seeing and we're talking about like single digit cold
in the morning. We're seeing and again, this is not a busy problem. This is an EV problem,
right? But we're seeing what should be a 288 projected predicted driving range.
Testers are seeing 200 miles. I swear you said I said 180 something when I got in and it said
100% charge the longest I saw while I had it was 246 predicted. So again, we will do we will
fully test this in the summer, right? Yep, it'll be part of the highway range to do with all of the
EV. So we'll we'll see what how it really does how close it does get to or even potentially exceed
its its EPA estimated 180. Will it go beyond zero? Exactly. We'll find out. So but as of now,
that's very disappointing, right? What we're seeing that's a huge drop. And for anyone,
whether it's this car or any EV to see it drop that much is is definitely something you just
don't get with a gas car, right? So that's a real downside. 280 miles is as far as modern EVs go,
is is not anywhere near top of the class. It's way better than it was. I think it was 22 or something
before. So it's way better. But you're right, it's still we're at a point of three, four years ago
range. We're at a point where if it's not over 300, it seems pretty weak. Yeah. So and people are
saying who drives 300 miles in a single day? Well, that's not it's it's that cold day. It's that,
you know, I'll give you an example. I had a car with it with a short range. I had to go to the
airport. I get to the airport. It's incredibly cold outside. Flight's canceled. So I drive home.
And, you know, that on a single charge, I thought, oh, I don't have to charge before I go, whatever.
And and I and that's I was getting close to it. That's kind of the the sort of edge case that you
might come across and why you'd want that 300 or more as opposed to you're not gonna
because on that cold day, that 300 could become 220 or even even worse. I was in an EV this morning
and losing five miles per every mile I drove on highway. I was the point I had the heat turned
off. I was slowing down because you're in that sweatshirt. Yeah, I didn't want to not make it
because I knew we had this to do. So um, yeah, it was, you know, slow down and conserve where you
can, which is unfortunate. Yeah, that's why you buy the most trains you can because then
you won't miss it if it's gone. Yeah. Oh, another thing is, is related to the powertrain as much
as I did say that I find it very pleasant and it's nice to have the extra power that it has now.
But and while it's nice that you can adjust the regen braking with the paddles, it doesn't have
any kind of a true one pedal drive and even have it at its maximum regen level, it's not one pedal
driving. And I assume hopefully most people know what that is. But that basically means you can
control both the acceleration and the braking with the throttle pedal, including coming to a
full stop. And you just simply can't do that here. And that's a real oversight because apparently
a lot of, you know, EV people do really enjoy being able to do that with just one pedal. Yeah.
And so to not have it here is a little odd. And also, the regen levels don't latch, right? So I
found that and what we mean by that is, so I typically when I get in, I like to hit the left
paddle and it goes to second from the strongest. Yeah. The strongest, I believe if I remember
right, is strong enough that it puts the brake lights on, I typically don't like that. So this
way I don't have to worry about putting brake lights on for people behind me, but I'm still getting
some regen braking. When I turn the car off and then turn it back on, it's not going to be back
at that level. So that we typically like to see something like that, what we call latch,
meaning that it's you don't have to redo it each time, right? Yeah. And you get used to a certain
level of regen. So if you have to do it every single time, you could have been used to,
you know, as close to one, if you had to turn up all the way, it gets pretty close to one
pedal driving. It does. And it's like the Leaf has the E-Step, which gets close, but it's not
true one pedal. And do you guys know why there's no actual one pedal? Yeah, Japanese law. Yeah,
there's a law. The car has to come to a stop with a brake pedal. Interesting. So no EV there has
true one pedal. They could give it to us for the North American market. They just choose not to.
Interesting. One other thing about the powertrain, which is when it gets down to its
down low and it's predicted driving range, I'm talking like 40 miles of predicted driving range,
the power drops off dramatically. Yes, interesting. Like shockingly weak. Like I've never experienced
an EV with still 40 miles of predicted range left to have, you know, you're basically flooring it and
it's barely doing anything. Yeah, I mean, it comes back to that conservation. They're trying to
help you conserve, you know, in case that has the driver, maybe you're just not aware that your
right foot is attached to how much power you use. But this was more than more of a drop-off than
most, right? Yeah, it's very significant. Did the old one do that? I don't remember. There,
we test, we didn't have the first BZ, we had a Solterra. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I believe there
was a warning for reduced power and I do believe there was reduced power. I just think it was so
dramatic because the car didn't make a lot of power to begin with. I'd have to go back to the
notes off of our range test. Yeah, exactly. I think there was a drop and a lot of EVs do that as
you get low, but with 40 miles to go, that's still significant. That could be definitely someone's
total round trip commute to work that you're now underpowered for. Yeah. So okay, so this is,
you know, we're in this sort of weird moment for EVs where the rest of the world is buying them.
They're being sold everywhere else. They're still being sold here, but with tax incentives gone
and automakers having fewer incentives to build them, it's a weird moment.
That's all just put it that way. It's a strange moment, but there are more EVs than ever.
So if you were shopping, was this something you would, I mean, it starts in the high 30s,
goes up to 50,000. In this range, is this something you would consider? And if you were
shopping for an EV, what would you get instead? I mentioned it earlier. I think I would get the
new Leaf over this. They're similar in size, similar in price. The Leaf might be a few dollars
less depending on how you option it, similar in range, similar in sort of everything, but
I find the seat more comfortable. There's way more space for the driver. This console isn't
as big. You kind of have one of those like diving board consoles with a storage space underneath.
And I also like on the Leaf that you get the dual charging ports. You have the next port for fast
charging. And then you have the sort of standard port that we've sort of known forever for just
level two charging. And I like that because I wouldn't have to buy a new charger at home.
So you'll be knowing if I had to spend a couple hundred bucks for a new charger if I bought a new
EV. But it gives you, again, a little more flexibility. If you're going to fast charge,
you are going to be using a Tesla network, or you could use an adapter. So yeah,
you carry an adapter with you. But I think it gives more flexibility, where this just,
the BZ just has the one port. Yeah, I'd probably go with a Hyundai Ioniq 5. Now, the downside there
is that the reliability hasn't been stellar. But of course, that's the case with a lot of EVs,
so but it does just about everything better, I think, than the BZ. It's, you know, more
technologically advanced, it drives a lot better. And it doesn't have the BZ's goofy instrument
or driving position, even though I sort of praised it for the ability to bring the steering wheel
down wherever you wanted. The fact that it has this weird in between driver screen where a normal
driver screen is right is right here, this one's here, and a head up display is up here.
It's trying to like bridge the gap between the two. But what I find is that now it has this
giant screen that I feel like I have to look up and over, and I actually can't see the hood
directly on the other side of that. And I just, I find it disconcerting and I don't like that.
It's basically the same screen as in modern Lexuses. They basically took the exact screen
out of like the Lexus NX. And the pre-use was that way, and even this will tear in the first
BZ was very similar. Right there. When you look at the way the Ioniq 5 drives compared to the BZ,
and like I said, the BZ is totally fine. It's just a good everyday EV. But if you look at the
Ioniq 5's road test score, it has the highest road test score of any two-row EV SUVs. Probably more
usable space to the vaccine cargo area as well. It's got that nice sort of open front where they
take advantage of the battery packaging, having that low floor. I would, if I weren't buying one,
I would probably do the same as you. But like you said, you know, reliability on these newer cars
is difficult. So I would choose the one that's been around for the longest in this sort of bunch.
And I'd pick the Mustang Mach-E in this range. And I might get one that's a couple of years old
and get that, hit that depreciation curve. Yeah, you're smart. I definitely think you used EV,
like a certified pre-owned is a good idea. They've all taken a hit in the resale value, right? So
you spend, however much you spend on new EV, you're taking a hit from the moment you sign the
paperwork. You've already lost some money. So I think a used car that still carries warranty,
things like that, is a smart move. We might be talking about that later on as well.
EV reliability. Yes, exactly. All right. So if you want to learn more about it,
we're going to have our full road test available in the future. If you sign up for our newsletter,
you can be notified when this full road test comes out. So head over to cr.org to learn more
about it. And we're going to get its many siblings and cousins. We'll have the whole BZ
Solterra Trail Seeker Uncharted Woodland family. I imagine we'll be very used to those cars.
Which I don't want to understand the names and which one is which, but yeah. Oh,
that'll, this will be one of those ones where you go out to the keyboard and someone's taken the wrong
one. Right. I hope they're all different colors. We need to make sure that happens. We have that
and the Land Cruiser and the Forerunner are the same color. You're right. Well, that's problems
that we have here with our big fleet of test cars. We're going to go to your questions,
which you have sent to talkingcarsaticloud.com. You too can get your question on here if you
send it to talkingcarsaticloud.com. Are we still giving out swag or if we run out of swag?
We're still giving out swag. Great. So Peter is going to get some swag and you could too,
again, if you send your question in. Peter asks, I am considering an electric SUV for my next car,
specifically the Kia EV9 Wind. Your 2026 buying guide has the EV9 is the top rated three row SUV
with average reliability and it is recommended. However, your most recent rating has the Kia
EV9 with a lower overall score and worse than average reliability. Why did the score drop in
reliability go from average to worse than average in such a short time? Now, we all kind of, for
about 10 seconds, tried to discuss our statistics and weighting and all that sort of stuff and then
decided we're just going to throw it over to Steve Ellick, who's one of our statisticians here who
can answer it. He does math way better than any of us. Way better than any of us. He does a lot of
things better than it. It's kind of annoying those people who are good at too many things.
I don't like them. Yeah, I know. It really is. So off to Steve.
So about this EV9, that is a great question and it's a good observation, honestly. And the reason
that you see different scores over the years is because every time we get new reliability information,
it is updated for that survey year. So the 2026 buyers guide was actually using last year's
reliability data. And for that reason, the EV9 had pretty good initial data and it looked like
it was reliable. This year, the 24 and 25 EV9, the owners reported that there were some pretty
substantial issues with it, with the EV battery, with charging problems, electrical accessories,
just to name a few. Because of that new data that we have, the prediction for the 2026 EV9
is actually below average reliability. It's one of the least reliable models in our survey.
And that is the reason for the discrepancy. So the most up-to-date information based on the most
recent 12 months that our members reported on is the new EV9 data that shows that it is unreliable.
I hope that helps and clears some things up. And Steve is even good at podcasting.
He is. Yeah, that's the right answer. And that'll happen, especially with these
newer vehicles where we're starting to get this information. So I guess if Peter is buying it,
what do you think he should do? So I, first time, I tried to not make eye contact with you,
so that I wouldn't have to answer. I know. You didn't want to answer it first?
No, I'll answer it first. So first of all, every three-row electric SUV currently has a below
average reliability rating other than, of all things, the Tesla Model X. Which I guess if you
think about it, it's not that surprising because it's been around a while, it's been around a long
time, right? So, and we don't recommend any of them. So that's the first thing to...
And some of them we don't recommend a lot more strongly than others.
So true. Yeah. So because of that, if you still want one of these, I'm going to go with the one
that is actually the best driving of all of them. And that's the Hyundai Onyc 9.
Again, if you look at the road test score, it has by far the highest road test score of any of
these three-row electric SUVs. It's actually eight points higher than what the Kia EV9 scored,
even though they're actually very similar in a lot of ways. So I mean, I do think it is a great
driving vehicle, period anyway. But yeah, but the reliability, it's a big if, right?
It is a question mark. Yeah, and I'll put my mechanic hat on for a minute. The Onyc 9 underneath
is basically the EV9. So you're probably going to run into some of those same kind of reliability
issues. The one I'm going to pick, definitely not any more reliable. I don't know where it stands,
but if you say Volvo EX90, you're going to explode his head. Absolutely not. No.
That's when he talked about driving a car back and forth to the dealership,
that was the one he was talking about. I have a lot of time going through from the
dealer in that car. Yeah. I would go with the Cadillac Vistic. Oh, yeah. That's a nice one.
It's a really nice car. It drives fantastic, heaps of power in general from what we've seen
in our test fleet. We have a lot of these Altium vehicles, no matter whose badge is on it. It's
all kind of the same guts, if you will, just different size batteries. They've been pretty
decent. We have had a couple of issues with the Vistic in particular. I think some of that
is due to the fact that it's very fast and the brakes are a little undersized and it's a big
heavy EV. We've had a couple of brake warnings and things come on during testing. But I just think
it's a great vehicle to drive. Some usability, some of the screens aren't the best.
But no car play. Yeah. It's a downside. I still, I think I would go with the Vistic.
I'm answering last because I'm going to take the privilege of the person who can answer last.
I would say whatever you want to buy, lease it. That's good. Because with an EV, we talked about
that depreciation. We talked about some of the early build. And this isn't that electric cars
are bad. This is new cars have bugs that need to be worked out. For sure. And the more new stuff,
the more bugs. So you're just early on here. We're in the bag phone era. We're in the
StarTac era of EVs. I miss the StarTac. I know. I kind of close it up. It feels real nice and
final. So I would say look into leasing because when you're done, when that 36 months is up,
it's their problem. It's been under warranty the whole time. So you might have to put tires on it
maybe. Yeah. But that's about it. You still might, you know, you still have to take time off of work
to bring the thing in if something goes wrong. But it's not going to cost you anything. You're
not going to be stuck with it. And if, if, you know, depreciation hits and plummets like a rock,
then it's not your problem. It's Kia's problem. So buy the car you want to buy. Don't buy the car,
lease the car that you want, and get whichever EV you, get the EV you like.
Yeah. I know we often say leasing isn't sort of the best value, but in this case,
I think there is value there. And Keith is smarter than us. I think is what we've
just written about it a lot. So now it goes Steve, Keith, and then the two condoms.
We're way down the list. Yeah. I've just written about it a lot. But Steve could do the math for
you. And probably Peter could too if he's, if he's a consumer reports reader. Keep in mind,
he also got out of having to pick a vehicle. I did. I did. All right. So I don't know why I
blocked the microphone, but that was, I mean, you, the people need to hear that. Yeah, that was
weird. Yeah. I think you kept the audience from hearing it, but I, I heard it. So not sure. Well,
for more shenanigans, send your questions to talkingcars.adcloud.com. We will find a smart
person. There are lots of them around here. We will find a smart person to answer your question
for you. And then send you some swag. So good luck, Peter. And good luck to everyone out there
who's shopping for a new car. And we'll talk cars again with you soon.
About this episode
The discussion centers around the newly updated Toyota bZ, previously known as the bZ4X, highlighting its improved horsepower, range, and user-friendly features like a conventional charge port. The hosts share their driving experiences, noting the car's pleasant powertrain and smooth performance. They also critique the confusing naming conventions and some design flaws, particularly the intrusive center console. Overall, the bZ is seen as a reliable option for those seeking an electric vehicle, though it may not lead the segment in innovation.
We share our first impressions of the all-new Toyota bZ. Formerly known as the bZ4X, it shares much of its DNA with the Subaru Solterra. Our experts share the best and worst parts of the bZ and discuss how the name, powertrain, and new NACS charging port increase its appeal. We also debate how much center console is too much, and whether dual wireless phone chargers are actually an asset. Plus, we answer an audience question about the Hyundai Ioniq 9's reliability.
Join CR at https://CR.org/joinviaYT to access our comprehensive ratings for items you use every day. CR is a mission-driven, independent, nonprofit organization.
SHOW NOTES:
0:00 - Intro
0:17 - 2026 Toyota bZ Overview
0:55 - What we like about the Toyota bZ
8:13 - What we dislike about the Toyota bZ
18:35 - What EV would we buy?
23:19 - Audience Question: How does Consumer Reports score and weight vehicle reliability year-to-year?
