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227: Customer Relationships With Zack Mcclain
227: Customer Relationships With Zack Mcclain
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About this episode
Zack McClain and Sean Tipping dive into the challenges and nuances of running a mobile automotive diagnostic and locksmith business. They discuss the balance between building strong customer relationships and maintaining business boundaries, sharing real-life stories about trust, honesty, and occasional pitfalls. The conversation also covers technical topics like key cutting machines, tricky diagnostics, and the importance of teamwork and clear procedures. They emphasize how good relationships can lead to referrals and creative problem-solving, while cautioning against being taken advantage of. The episode offers insights into growing a business while keeping a personal touch.
Topics:
customer relationships
mobile automotive diagnostics
locksmith work
key cutting machines
business boundaries
trust and honesty
diagnostic challenges
teamwork and delegation
referrals and word of mouth
business growth challenges
Cars:
Chevrolet Silverado
Today on the show Zack Mcclain joins me to talk about customer relationships. What benefits do strong customer relationships bring your business? How do you build them? Where do you draw the line between customer and friend?
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Technical
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Car
Chevrolet Silverado
"...ed me because they put a Jasper reman engine in a Silverado and it was deleted doD so it doesn't have any of ..."
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Welcome to the Automotive Diagnostic Podcast.
We're going to explore ways to sharpen our diagnostic skills, find learning resources and hear from experts in the automotive field.
Have you ever been faced with the challenge of sourcing, installing and programming a used control module in a vehicle?
I know a lot of us have.
It seems to be happening more and more often today with the volume of control modules on vehicles, the cost of some new ones or even the availability of new control modules.
In some cases, used may be the only option.
So what do you do here?
I strongly recommend checking out SJ Auto Solutions and Tommy Oliva.
Tommy offers a cloning service for used control modules to make these things plug and play for the vehicle that you're working on.
In a lot of cases he is also able to source the control modules if you're unable to locate one for the vehicle that you're working on.
But once you get connected with Tommy, he's going to offer fantastic support from start to finish to make sure that that control module is going to work in your application.
He's also got tech support that he offers through his website, along with some free resources there as well on information about used control module programming.
So make sure to check out SJ Auto Solutions.
I can't recommend that enough.
I am happy to have Automotive Seminars as a sponsor for the show.
Now, if you're not familiar, automotive Seminars is a diagnostic technician training company.
They've got a website that they'll be a link to in the show notes, and what they offer is top notch training to technicians like us in the field.
I've been taking their training courses for years and have got a ton of benefit out of it.
They've got top notch instructors John Thornton, scott Schotten, scott Manna and every other month they've got a two night course that you can sign up for, join in, ask questions and afterwards you've paid for the course.
You can access a recorded version whenever you want.
You can rewatch the class two years later in case you wanted some details on it, and that is a fantastic feature.
So make sure to check out the website to see what courses they have available and what's coming up in the future.
Hey, what's going on?
Automotive World.
Welcome to another episode of the Automotive Diagnostic Podcast.
My name is Sean Tipping and I'll be your host once again for today's episode.
Thank you so much for joining me Today on the show.
I'm having Zach McLean join me once again.
He's been on the show a few times before.
He's a mobile guy, does some locksmith work, programming work, diagnostics we're going to talk all about that today Do some key stuff key cutting machines, lock picking that sort of stuff.
But we're also going to focus mainly on customer relations and, of course, we're coming at it from the mobile perspective.
We run mobile businesses and our customers primarily are automotive repair shops, but this could easily transfer to auto repair shops servicing their customers as well.
And what we're going to talk about today is the kind of relationship that you need to build with your customer in order to maintain their business for the long run and also to get new customers as far as recommendations and where mouth goes.
But where do you draw the line when building that relationship?
Because you can get a little too friendly, a little too buddy buddy, where you're almost doing favors for somebody because you're friends.
And at the end of the day, this has to be business.
We have to make profit, we have to make decisions that are a positive thing for the business but also, at the same time, have a good relationship with the customer.
So it's a tricky thing to do, but that's the subject of our conversation today.
So I think you'll enjoy this.
I know I did.
With that out of the way, let's jump into the episode.
All right, there we go.
How are we doing Zach Tired?
Another long day, but I'm here, we're recording episode.
I'm excited.
Yes, sir, yeah, yeah, I feel like I've been getting beat up a lot lately on cars.
I've been kind of just dragging on a lot, a lot, a lot of problem vehicles.
I keep saying to shops like I'll go in like, hey, how's it going, how's business?
I'm like, well, these cars ain't getting any easier.
I'll tell you that, yeah, just yeah, the number of unique new problems I run into is just is just wild.
It's just crazy how much new stuff you see.
And I mean I guess it makes sense, right, there's a lot of cars out there, it's a lot of potential problems, but man, every single day seems to be something new, absolutely.
And one of the situations I hope to discuss tonight was a crazy wild car that ended up being not so crazy, but in the moment it seemed crazy.
Well, that's usually how it goes right, like the end fix or the solution to it.
It's like, oh, it was just a loose pin or a broken wire or whatever.
It's not that often something crazy.
But when you're in it you're like this makes no sense, like how can this be doing the thing that it's doing with the parts that I put in it already?
It doesn't.
Yeah, it's pretty standard for my day.
I've got, I've got a Ford Focus right now.
It's absolutely kicking my ass.
I don't have a solution on it yet because I have to go back to it.
It's a fuel pump driver module, or well, I should say the PCM, set in a code because it's unhappy with the duty cycle that the PC or the fuel pump driver is sending out.
But I can't make this fuel pump driver happy and we've put in a couple, one of which is from Ford, and still the same thing.
You can bypass it, pump or run, call or run all day, but if you have the driver module in, it'll run the pump for the initial prime when you cycle the key and then it doesn't run it again until you cycle the key and it sends out this 20% duty cycle.
The PCM on the feedback which PCM says oh, there's a problem, I'll set this code.
But no matter what happens on the control circuit which to me looks OK, and I even tried playing around with a signal generator I can't seem to make this damn thing happy and I kind of ran out of things.
I'm like I don't really know what this driver module is upset about, or it's not seeing that it wants to see, or what voltage level needs to be where.
So I was talking to some friends I'm trying to get some known goods, so I'm wondering if it's a weird voltage level or there's something where the code isn't fully described on what the driver module is looking for.
Like is it something to do with the pump, even though the pump works?
Is it like an amperage, resistance, voltage thing that it's seeing that it's going into a default mode?
But I have nothing to tell the shop.
Like I don't have the confidence to tell them to put a pump in it because the pump works, and then I don't have the confidence to put a PCM in it because the PCM is doing exactly what it's supposed to, as far as I can tell.
So I don't know.
That's the kind of fun things that I get to do.
You can just kind of consider myself lucky that I've not run into that particular issue yet.
Well, it's like I've seen that system.
Fords have the feedback control and their driver modules for a long time.
I'm fairly familiar with it.
You just need to know what the duty cycles are supposed to be for the control and the feedback, and the rest is pretty straightforward.
And that's why this one was like this shouldn't be this hard.
I'm like what am I missing?
And I'm sure it'll be something dumb, but we'll figure it out one way or another.
Parts for lead or not, We'll solve that one.
Keep me updated, because I've got to hear the resolution on that.
Yeah, yes, sir, I definitely will.
But yeah, I don't know, it's challenging, it's frustrating the moment, but that's why I do it.
You get on the other side of it and it's a good feeling to solve the problem.
That's why I like this.
Stuff is the challenge, even though sometimes it's not lucrative business-wise.
Yeah, I feel like a dummy because it's like why am I doing this?
I could just go clock in and clock out of the shop and burn hours and I'm like, yeah, I'd go crazy after the second set of ball joints.
Yeah, I'm done, burn the building to the ground, get me out of here.
So it's tough to remember on those hard days that it could be worse.
You could be swinging brakes and ball joints and board out of your mind.
Yeah, exactly it's like.
Is the challenge that frustrates you?
Is that better or worse than being board out of your mind, sitting around with no work to do?
Or oil changes and tires right and just monotonous work that you don't even really have to put any thought process into?
And yeah, I'll take the thing that kicks my ass for sure.
Me as well.
What else have you been up to recently?
Just a lot of locksmith work.
Recently the programming's, those have kind of taken over.
I haven't been doing a whole lot of dyac.
Okay.
A lot of locksmith work.
I've been loving it.
I did a saw.
I've been a Volvo back to back, like a week or two ago Easy gravy, money, my favorite, some of my favorite cars to do.
They make great profit, they take a little bit of time but not too much, and just other gravy, key works and holiday ignitions and just the typical if you've been a locksmith in the automotive industry for any length of time.
All the stuff I did had a keys here, all keys, lots of cool stuff there.
So what key cutting machine do you have?
I use the Dolphin 2.
I think it was at the XP005.
Oh you got me.
Yeah, it's X-Wars, she's just weird naming.
So if you don't look it up by the model numbers, we're like oh, which one do you want to look at?
The Dolphin, the Pan Bay?
You're like what?
So?
did they put a shield on the newer version of it for the shavings?
The Dolphin 2 does have a shield.
It's not perfect there are still chips that get out but it's far better than the original Dolphin.
They went to a single jaw rather than multi-jaw.
So you have your high security and your standard double-edged cut keys on the same jaw.
You just rotate.
It has a built-in LCD screen, rather than having a dedicated app on your phone or the KeyTool Max.
Sure.
So it's, in my opinion, a better machine.
It feels like the battery life isn't as long, but the trade-offs work.
Okay.
So I used the first Dolphin for quite a while and I really liked it.
I thought it was a great machine, did exactly what I needed it to do.
I consider myself like a part-time locksmith because I'll go a week without doing any keys and then all of a sudden I'll get a bunch of them.
But the volume for me has gone up recently too, and so I got another key machine because I wanted to have my second van able to do keys too.
And my guy Steve, he was just kind of the point where he's up to speed on the stuff I already had him doing and he was kind of ready to take on some new learning, new skills, which was keys.
And so I gave the Dolphin to him, mainly because I know it pretty well and I can help him over the phone if he's got issues right.
I didn't want to buy him something new and I don't know exactly the ins and outs of it, and then he has it.
So I have the new machine and I got the Triton Alpha Isaacs recommendation because I was talking to him like, hey, what do you recommend?
Obviously he knows that stuff really well and he was telling me to go with that and kind of same idea.
It's got the screen built into the top of it so you don't have to have a separate device.
There's no battery in that one, which motivated me to finally put my inverter in my van.
I've been dragging my feet on that for so long, but having an inverter in my van is awesome, so it was a good decision.
I can just plug stuff in now and keep all my stuff charged, which is fantastic.
But yeah, so far I like it.
It's been a good tool and I've only probably done maybe I don't know 10, 15 keys with it so far, but it's been pretty good.
But I like the X-OR stuff too.
I really do the what future?
The fine bidding thing I always thought was fantastic.
Just to see, am I close?
If you do the fine bidding and it doesn't come up with anything, I better double check this.
I'm not even in the right neighborhood.
The only criticism that I really have on X-Horse and it's not a criticism so harsh that you shouldn't use the machines at all, it's just you need to know your tools the fine bidding option like you're talking about, or cut by bidding if you already want to put the bidding in, rather than putting a code or duplicating.
On Honda in particular, they're really really bad about flipping and flopping the A and the B track.
So if you know what the bidding is and you put it in, you know assuming the top is the a row and the bottom is the B row or vice versa, what you're accustomed to doing, it actually inverts them.
And the other problem is it always seems to screw up Honda H166 style blanks, like I used to order them by the hundred.
I think in this closet over here there's at least a fresh hundred H166 blanks, because you would always end up going through two or three test blanks until it finally cut.
The key and when I found was the I want to say it's the 1.5
millimeter cutter.
Once I installed that cutter it never really had that issue again.
I've had it once or twice here and there, but I mean the 1.5
millimeter cutter and knowing how the machine decodes what it considers A and B tracker really the only two issues I've ever had out of the X-Horse.
It's always done really well for me other than those two minor complaints.
That must be why, because I had heard people say, hey, I have all these problems with the Honda 66 and I never did, but that was the blade I usually had.
In there was the 1.5
and that just was luck.
I had no, no reason behind that, that's just the one that I put in there.
Did you or do you have the, the optical key reader that links?
up?
Oh, absolutely 100% couldn't live without it.
Justin Robichow, I mispronounced his last name.
Please forgive me, justin, but I went to Vision.
He's like you, don't leave it until you order it.
And I took him to Waffle House and we were all having a great time and he's like order it right now.
And I sat there and ordered it right with Justin and ever since then I've never regretted it.
It's 10 out of 10 worth it.
Yeah, for sure.
So I afraid everybody listening hasn't used it.
It's like this little thing you open it up, you put the key in and it optically reads all the cuts and then links up to the machine as well.
And yeah, that thing, that's, that's badass.
I love that thing.
So but yeah, I kind of think the ones that kick my ass the most it's old GMs for sure as far as like decoding lock cylinder, doing all keys lost or something like that, the old worn-out lock cylinders and GMs where people actually use their keys in the door.
I just get my ass kicked reading those things and so I last one idea I just pull lock cylinder decoded.
I'm like I don't know, this is just wasted time for me to try to read these cuts and not even come close, you know.
I will yell from the top of any mountain about the virtues of leishi and knowing how to actually do the trade of locksmithing.
But when it comes to GMs, man, if I can get the ignition lock cylinder out, I'll usually jiggle it with a jiggler key and use something to press the sidebar and just pop the ignition right out.
There's not even, it's not even worth trying to leishi some of them and GMs in particular, the B102 keys for, like the GMT 800 series trucks you try to decode that there'll be like 30 keys there'll be like, yeah, two cuts on this key, three cuts on the second key and you'll go.
You'll spend your whole next two weeks cutting keys and you could have popped that ignition lock cylinder out and been in and out 15-20 minutes yep, for sure don't waste your time on those yeah, that's when the that's what I've really had fun learning that side of things.
That is just like I said before.
You know, hold another challenge.
That's not my background.
I have very little formal training on it, a couple classes here and there, but that has been.
I honestly really enjoy doing that work and I will take some extra time to do the leishi because I have some resources.
Obviously.
I mean I can do the DSP thing, get key cut codes, but I mean there's there's paperwork and stuff involved, that.
But like I enjoy doing that work, figuring it out.
It's almost like a little puzzle or something to or you know those little.
You can get those little mind teaser puzzles or whatever.
It's like a little thing of interlocking blocks and you got to like take it apart, put it back together.
That's that sort of same thing for me which I really like doing, that I I enjoy the art of leishi as much as I enjoy the utility of it.
I don't.
I've never purchased a Ford key code because I've always used the leishi.
But I know, talking to my dealer parts people, that if a vehicle's over 10 years old, ford won't produce a key cut code, at least to the parts department.
Because I was trying to buy some parts and get them to give me the key code to my van because I'm lazy and it doesn't pay to leishi my tibbe key.
So I was like whatever.
I'll get a key code, and my 2010 transit connect was 13 years old, so, like pound sand or call locksman, those are your options.
I'm like dang, I gotta call myself, so that's another reason.
If you can't purchase a code the leishi is far away the best will have so that's a whole different animal, in my opinion, is the tibbe leishi.
I bought it and the only time I have used it is learning on my own van because like a same thing at 2010 and of course you know mine's super worn out too I've.
I kind of got it so that I can pick the locks.
I would say fairly easy, like it's not much to get the lock open, decoding it again, especially the worn out one, that I guess I would still have a challenge.
But the whole cutting of the key too.
Look, I realized how, why they charge so much for those things.
That was a frickin process to do, the cutting of the tibbe key, and that was with the dolphin.
I don't know if other key cutting machines are faster, but man, that took forever rotate to position a yeah.
Yeah, you do it four different times.
A be, is it ABC and D?
Think there's four depths, so it's ABC or D and have you do four sides of the keys?
Yeah, it's.
It's a long process.
I don't enjoy cutting them right and every one of them every one of them is worn out, like you said so yeah, yeah, for sure.
I mean, luckily my van has five locks on it, so not all of them there as worn out, but I, I don't have power locks on mine, so they all get some use.
My, my employees van has the actual remote adult in, so those weren't too bad, but yeah, I don't.
That's the only time I've used it.
So if I don't get any calls on them, I'm sure I'll get one tomorrow.
But yeah, you'll get 12 and you'll get an eight-cut tibby.
You're gonna get a jag wire.
This one's gonna call you for, just cuz you said that you probably don't have a six-cut tibby pick probably.
Yeah, I think that's what it is actually.
Oh fun, well, cool man.
Um, you wanted to join me on the show.
You brought up a pretty good idea for a discussion and I don't know.
I probably just let you kind of explain the idea of what you wanted to talk about and we kind of take it from there so, as you mentioned at the very beginning, there's some pitfalls to customer relations and how you interact with customers.
Right, when you're interacting with your customers, whether they be retail customers for key jobs, or you know retail repair shops, or you know body shops whatever the case may be, every interaction you have with them you can be transactional.
Where, hey, you called me to do x, that costs why I'm here, I did x, please pay me why.
Or, hey, you called me because you wanted a programming on this module.
Are you sure you want me to program this module?
Because I don't know if that's going to fix your complaint.
Let us have a discussion to discuss which services I offer meet your needs the most and what is the best choice for you and your budget.
And it can very quickly devolve into, hey Tim, you know, I just my gut, saying we shouldn't do this, we should do that.
Or let me pull into the bay and fill up there on my tire real quick and you get friendly and before you know it, they're wanting stuff for free.
You're wanting stuff for free.
So I see a tight rope that we can walk down with customer relationships and operating from a transactional mindset or a relational mindset yeah, and I'll tell you what I have definitely struggled with that growing my business and I feel that a lot of the success of my business is because I built good relationships with a lot of the shops that I service.
But it it's been a detriment at times.
It's been the other thing where I definitely take the hit at times because it may be maybe get a little too friendly with shops, right, or it's you almost treat some of these, these guys, the shop owners or the tax or whoever you're dealing with as your friends, because you do interact with them, you know, so frequently it's like your co-workers, almost like you see every single week.
It's good interactions, they are good people.
But where is that line in business?
Because you got to be careful, because I do have to run a business, you know, and it, it, it has to be a business at the end of the day in order to be profitable.
It can't be buddy doing favors all the time for everybody.
And so I've definitely struggled with it because I lean more towards the like hey, I'm your friend, I'm gonna help you out, but ST mobile needs to make some money.
How do you, how do you define that line?
How do you walk that tight rope?
you know that's a question I've asked myself a lot over my almost two years.
This month marks two years of me being in business with my for myself, and I think the thing that really set it off this whole discussion came to mind after I had a scenario with a customer retail customer somehow ended up with my phone number and she was adamant that she wanted a PCM update for her Ford 500.
I think is what it was Duratec v6, you know, typical run of mill Ford.
And she told me a big, long story, as I'm sure we all hear when we look at a customer complaint on a repair order or speak to a customer in person about losing power and the terrible experience that she's had up to this point.
And I said, ma'am, I totally empathize, I understand.
When you have a car, it's your only car and it breaks down.
This is very traumatizing, but I don't typically see updates, fixed cars, without some sort of information leading us in that direction, like a technical service bulletin, or someone performed a diagnosis and has found an update and that's associated with these symptoms.
Are you sure you want to proceed?
And here's what the price is.
If you would rather me try to diagnose the issue, here's what this price is.
I want you to make an informed decision.
And of course, she had told me she was a single mom and bleeding heart me, the little guy on my shoulders like, help, help.
You're a horrible person if you don't help this poor single mom.
And then the business owner over here is like it doesn't matter, we have to make a profit.
And both of them are, in a way, kind of right.
And she was adamant.
So I went up to the car, I did the programming, sure enough didn't fix her issue and when I was done I just did a quick road test.
She drove the car, I looked at some scan data and I was confident, pretty confident, that we had a breathability issue.
And I said, ma'am, I don't know what had happened up to this point.
Maybe you've, you know, just inherited this car.
She told me she got it from her grandmother a year or two ago and maybe it's had issues in the past that have created a restriction in the exhaust like misfires and melted down a cat.
I said I can't really afford to stay here any longer.
Today I have other appointments but I think you have, you know, a breathing issue on this engine.
Next step from here is check pressure or drop the exhaust.
Have your mechanic friends drop the exhaust and see if it drives better.
And sure enough, I heard from.
I heard from the lady about a week later and the cats are restricted.
But that situation brought up this discussion with me and another friend, brian Stone, and it really made me think about when you interact with a customer.
If you interact from a place of trying to build a relationship before you make the sale, I truly think that ends up with happier customers, more referrals and better business.
So I'll shut my flat now no, I 100% agree and, like I mentioned earlier, a lot of the success that I've had with mine it was based off of that is having good relationship with people, and I didn't have to do still really haven't done much marketing right, it's all been word of mouth because I'm treating people right and and building some good relationships with them and
I like it too.
Like, for the most part I've been, I've been very lucky.
There are exceptions, for sure.
There always will be, but for the most part the shops that I've dealt with, the people who run them, it's generally smaller shops.
You know, independent repair shops is really who I service for the most part.
There's a couple of dealerships here and there, but it's been real down-to-earth people that are just trying to make a buck to and Run a business.
You know a lot of these are the owners, they're the business owners and so we can relate on a lot of things together and I mean I will say you know, I did this for a long time as a technician too and I had great customers there.
But I Find it much, much easier to have that relationship with Another person who understands the industry or what we're doing right, like we both get it like, hey, it's tough to own a shop, hey, it's tough to do mobile Diagon programming.
We get it and so we'll kind of, you know, help each other out or cut each other some slack here and there.
But yeah, it is like I mentioned, it's.
You want to be careful with that.
You don't get too, you know, too friendly, because what I found myself doing with certain people that I had really become genuinely like friends with, like we, you know, we'd say in contact outside of work, send each other, you know, messages and stuff like that, is like you want to help them out Wherever you think you can because they're your friend.
Right, that's what I would do for my friend, right?
Hey, this, this diet, was super easy.
It was just a connector that was unplugged, right?
This took me five minutes to find.
Like now I feel bad charging this guy.
Like normally I don't really feel that bad.
Like, hey, call me out here, that's, I fix your problem, blah, blah.
But this is my buddy, right?
Like, oh man, like I feel bad charging my full, my full fee.
Now I've gotten better about that.
And, like I mentioned, it's really about understanding that hey, he's a business owner, he understands I'm a business owner.
Let's, let's come to this agreement, but that's that's where I definitely felt myself kind of Having a negative effect from getting too friendly with people or having that that friendly relationship with my customers.
So it's it's a weird one.
I definitely see some benefit to it, though You're not going to You're not gonna have the word of mouth spread around Any other way than like you would if you have that positive relationship with people you're doing work for.
Absolutely, and I know I brought up a retail customer.
But I've had this experience not only with retail customers but with my shop customers because I do have, you know, shops that I work for.
They.
Surprisingly enough, they refer me to a ton of retail customers for other things, like keys.
But it has made a huge difference with the relationships that I have built and the other scenario I want to talk about.
This particular shop has sent me an Untold amount of customers, people they didn't want to tow their car there, so they called me to have me come out and program and don't hurt my feelings, you know.
Anyways, the relationships that I have built with these shops have allowed me to grow as a business and allowed me to Excuse me, help turn lemons and eliminate, in some situations, help one of my shops out and another shop out at the same time.
So that other scenario, I think, is gonna be an interesting maybe.
I went out of my way to help both of my customers.
But it was an interesting way.
I felt that I helped a customer, a bad situation and helped the customer win, just for winning, and it was all because those relationships.
Had I not built them, I wouldn't have been able to call my other customer like, hey, I've got this situation which you be interested, and tell my other customer, hey, this shop that I do business with they're interested in buying X.
So I Think those relationships are great for marketing and they're great for when situations go south.
You might be able to make them go back North again.
Yeah, right the the thing about treating somebody right and you don't know what that person might do for you in the future, business wise.
And I've had that same experience where I just, you know, was doing my best to provide the best service I can, friendly, be respectful, get the job done, that, and then that particular person, for whatever reason, they have the connections or they end up knowing, you know, certain people are in a certain position and then, yeah, you've get all kinds of business just from that one interaction or that one.
In some cases it was that for me it's just like one or two jobs that I did one person and they ended up leaving where they were at but going to something bigger or more widespread, and then all of a sudden they're getting all kinds of calls and I can think of a handful of people that have been like that and it wasn't my intention at the time, you know, I wasn't being nice to them.
Oh, okay, well, this will be really great for business in five years.
It just sort of happened that way.
But it's a good reminder to like, hey, don't be a dickhead, because you don't know where that person Absolutely you know might end up, a role they might be in or what it might bring for you, and so it's worked out for me pretty well.
I mean, and I Mean to be totally honest, that's kind of my default anyways.
I just I try to be a positive, nice person to everybody that I interact with and it's worked out for me For the most part.
But yeah, there's, there's a couple, yeah, one in specifically, you know he ended up becoming like an area manager with the Firestone tires bus stores around here, and another one where he just works at a distributor or a Builder for transmissions and so then all those transmissions go out to the shops and then he recommends me to go program them and that that was never planned.
That just kind of worked out that way.
Okay, this is really cool and just by being being kind to somebody and, you know, being respectful and helpful, and that's all it took, right.
Yeah, and I mean, funny enough, I've had shops that will lose attack and they'll go to another shop.
I never knew where they went.
They just disappeared into the nothing.
I'm like, hey, where's Brian that they'd be like, oh, he's just quit.
On Thursday we haven't seen him.
And then two weeks later I'm getting a call from another shop.
Hey, brian works here.
And he said that you can, you know, program TCM's GM trucks.
Is that true?
Like, absolutely, man, what do you need when?
And you show up there and, hey, brian, didn't know you moved here, man, and you know it can spread everywhere.
Treat everyone as you would like to be treated the golden rule.
It applies to not just business but life in general.
And it has helped me out because I've had experiences from the early days of my career where I was in a shop and we had a Mobile guy come by and he wouldn't even look at you.
You walk up to him and be like, hey man, that's some cool software.
You know what do you, what do you use him?
And he'd be like, oh, I'm busy, leave me alone.
And I have done a complete 180.
If a tech comes up to me, hey man, what are you doing?
Hey, dude, check this out.
This is SPS to man.
I'm using an MDI to.
We replace this PCM, so we have to go in here.
We have to, we have to flash with SPS to and I'll tell them anything they want to know.
If they want to ask questions, I'm here to tell you anything and everything you want to know.
Man, if I can help you, you're interested.
Don't learn, doesn't hurt my feelings.
And a lot of guys after you start digging in they're like, ah, whatever, I want to go put on ball joints, but okay, man.
Take off.
But there's been younger kids that have come up to me and they seem genuinely interested in.
What else am I gonna do when you hear beep boop?
Hey, we got two minutes, let's talk.
So that I think it makes it a more pleasurable experience for me and the shops and the technicians when I show up, because I know guys now it's hey, man, you know happy after the good day, and I mean just the smallest stuff, hey, do you see the game?
Whatever it doesn't have to be, hey, let's go have beer on Saturday night at the bar.
It's just treating people like people and not showing up and being a robot and get away from me.
I'm here to charge my 180 bucks and leave right.
So I think it's easier to interact with people on a friendly level too.
You know you're going into all these shops and it's like you have a ton of Co-workers, right, and you're gonna go to all the different spots with your co-workers every single day.
You might as well Be friendly and have a good interaction with them rather than, yeah, just grumpy and don't talk to me, right?
I mean, I've worked with people like that in a shop too, and I know that that that sucks as well to work with somebody who's just a, you know, just a negative dream on the energy of the place.
But yeah, I don't want to be, I don't be that person and yeah, the the tax go in other shops.
That's been a huge, huge thing for getting more business.
There's a ton of places I'll go.
Oh, it's funny when you go to a different shop and you see a tech, you're like I didn't think you worked here.
It's like all I did until a couple months ago.
They move around like crazy.
And then it's like I was like wait, I thought you worked over at blank.
Oh, yeah, yeah, moved over here and this and that.
So that's been.
That's been definitely a big one for getting more business.
Yeah, and it's the smallest gestures, man, and it just isn't some you know, grandiose.
I'm giving away free dags to everybody for X or you know all new customer not doing anything like that.
We're just talking general human interactions, being kind, having respect and Trying to build a relationship with your customer, rather than being the guy that's X dollars.
Like I don't call Zach, he's $200.
It's like you know Zach could probably really help us out.
Remember that last time you really got us out of a bind and you know it's.
It changes the whole atmosphere, how you interact with your customers and the way you treat them when things go wrong versus when things go right, and vice versa.
So Well, I'm being being honest, you know I try to do that as much as possible too.
There's a lot of times, you know, a shop will call me for an update.
You know very common, especially on, like a Ford, where it's, from what I found, a little bit more difficult to check beforehand whether it actually needs the update or not, and Sometimes it doesn't plug in hey, this module is fully updated, right, and just being honest about that, I'm like, hey, this doesn't need the update.
You know I got charging my trip fee but I'm not gonna charge you for a whole programming where you know a lot of these places, they, they don't really have a clue on the technical side as to what's happening.
I'm sitting in the car must be getting programmed, right.
Oh, okay, there's my, you know, 180 bucks or whatever for doing the programming, and so I've always tried to be honest there and I think that that's definitely helped, right, like they're like oh, thanks for letting me know and not, you know, not charging me for this, this update that obviously didn't need that.
That's been a big one, and you build up that trust with people and it pays off.
I actually I had a shop this was actually a few years ago.
But he called me up while he was on vacation and His shop was closed or he didn't have his tech there that day or whatever.
He's like dude, we got this car.
It's really in a pinch.
I'll tell you where the key is.
If you just go in there and just put the piece, plug the PCM into this car, program it.
We got to get this thing out for this guy.
I'll pay you double whatever.
But he was like cool with me going unlocking his shop and I was a little uncomfortable about it.
He's like not, I'm worried about a man like I, just Just we got it.
We got to help this customer out and I really appreciate it.
But I was actually more taken back that he was like trusting me but he didn't know me outside of programming cars for him that he'd give me the keys to the shop and go in and Put the module in this car, back it out and get the keys of the customer, like I was like, alright, man, we'll do it and I took care of him.
He's been he's been a fantastic customer for almost as long as I've been doing this, like tons and tons of business.
That's been.
That's been a great relationship.
One of my very first customers.
It's a transmission shop in Springdale, arkansas.
They're great guys, absolutely a door doing business with them.
And back to relationships.
I've called him before doing a diagram like hey, mike, this is what I'm seeing.
I've looked at X, y and Z.
I'm pretty confident this is the dyag.
But we run back through it with me and make sure that I'm not crazy.
He's done it for me and the same token when he's had issues with electrical problems.
They don't typically call me to diagnose.
But hey, let me run this fight you real quick.
Make sure I'm thinking correctly.
Those relationships that you build Don't just have to be for the particular business you're doing programming or transmissions.
You can help each other.
But they call me all the time and it's last minute and they close at five.
But they absolutely have to have the job done.
The customer will pick it up at the 839 pm At night because they've already paid.
All swing in.
They'll leave the keys outside.
I'll program it.
Good to go.
There's that trust.
You know they trust that I'm gonna get the job done.
I know I can get there, not before they close but before the customer comes to pick up the car or whatever the case may be.
So having those relationships opens the door to creative solution finding.
That may not, you know, fit the 8 to 5 you know rigid, got to operate this specific way.
So, yeah, it's been.
It's been an interesting experience now, with all this being said, have you experienced the situation where You've been taking advantage, or someone's attempting to take advantage of that?
Right, like, hey, I want to build a good relationship with you, I want to be as helpful as I can this and all the stuff we're talking about and then somebody who is just they're not necessarily reciprocating or even considering that.
They're just like, okay, well, this I can use to my advantage and I'm gonna squeeze it for everything it's worth.
Now, I've definitely run into people like that and it's taken me a little bit of wherewithal to recognize when somebody's just trying to, just trying to squeeze me because I'm trying to, you know I'm being nice to them.
Absolutely the only time I've ever not been paid by a shop Was a situation like that.
So I I didn't work for this customer this is probably my first six to eight months in business and I didn't work for me or there and then it started to pick up and I started doing work for them a lot like three times a week Minimum, I'd be at that shop.
It was a great account.
I love the money.
I made it.
I was very accustomed to the people there.
I knew everyone.
They only me.
It works great.
Until some circumstances changed and Money wasn't as free-flowing anymore at the particular shop and I'm not gonna go into deep detail.
But I decided instead, instead of collecting payment Directly after service was performed, that I would allow this customer to drag an entire week out.
You know, hey, you've always taken good care of paying me.
You've always been honest, you've always treated me well.
There were some other circumstances, but the point remains.
I drug out a couple invoices until there was almost $1,500 worth of open invoices and and things blew up when I showed up to get paid and that customer's gone forever and Great.
I'm so happy that that's all it cost me, right, but that was a $1,500 lesson and that tight rope walk.
What is being a friend to your customer and what is having a great relationship?
and that taught me you have to have clear policies.
You have to have clear procedures.
You don't break them for anyone.
Period, end of story.
If Sean tipping called me today and said, hey, I just need you to program module, I'm still gonna have the discussion about what expectations are, what the price is.
I'm getting paid right after the job.
You know it doesn't matter.
There's those procedures and I learned $1,500 was cheap tuition to learn that lesson.
But it was a case of being taken advantage of because I got too friendly and too trusting with the customer.
Mm-hmm, Yep yeah that's uh, that's definitely been, definitely been the case for me, not so much on the payment side, although there's been a few words been Kind of run out that bill, like they're still calling you like.
I've eventually just had to say some people like, hey, I can't come back out there until you pay me.
And I haven't experienced one that went under yet, but I could see that happening with the.
Yeah, a few shops are racking up the bills, but For me a lot of the time it's been on the on the diagnostic side of the things, where they're really trying to but really just kind of squeeze out a little extra bit, like it's for like two different problems.
Right, hey, the radio and the backup camera don't work, and you know, like just trying to like Work their way, like, oh, yeah, I can just help me out and you know they're probably related because you know this and that and I've been much better lately being more strict about that type of thing, but it was, you know it was an area in the past where I would just kind of be like Okay, well, you know this, this wasn't too bad to figure out the second problem.
We'll just bill them for one die egg or something like that and that that's the sort of stuff that I've been better at being fair to myself, and I think that's probably something that I would recommend anybody keep at.
You know, top of mind when you're going into situations like this is like hey, let's be fair to the customer, but make sure you're being fair to yourself too.
Otherwise there's really no point in doing this for compensation.
Like you got it.
You got to take yourself into consideration too.
And again, this all comes down to personalities.
Some people listening to this might be like what are you talking about?
But for me, I'm Generally a person like.
My default is maybe to like take that little bit of a hit to help somebody else out, right, that's just.
I'm not, and I'm not trying to be like, oh, I'm all virtuous or anything.
That's just how I am, that's that's how I Developed as a person, and so I'll go that little extra mile if somebody I feel needs that help or wants that help.
But I got to ask myself like hey, sean, are you, are you being fair to yourself in this situation?
In a lot of times it's not the case.
Absolutely.
I think that leads perfectly into the last scenario or situation that I think really applies to this discussion.
A Shop that I they're one of my probably top five shops that I go to called me because they put a Jasper reman engine in a Silverado and it was deleted doD so it doesn't have any of the collapsible lifters.
It comes from Jasper with no doD.
That's a good way with that.
I'm just as curious as probably anybody else is to know how.
But I'm sure it's a very boring dry explanation.
Yeah, anyways, this customer was trying to do the doD delete and they said they were able to get the initial read using the little HP tuners rebranded device that they give you.
But After that initial read, the ECM excuse me, the TCM or nocom.
So they wanted me to come and give it my best shot.
So I told them hey, sounds to me like you want diagnosis, let's start with diagnosis.
Went to the shop, confirmed their complaint, of course, first step in diagnostic process.
Once I confirmed the complaint, I Just went through my traditional process checked for communication, couldn't communicate, check terminating resistance.
Terminating resistance was good.
Long story short.
I assumed Big, big word there.
You should never do.
I assumed when they put this engine in that they didn't leave anything loose.
This shop is top notch.
Okay, I've never, ever caught them in a situation where they have Left a ground loose, left a connector unplugged, anything like that.
These guys are 10 out of 10, top notch.
But what I did not know at that particular moment was the employee that did the engine swap was injured three-quarters of the way through the engine swap.
So the owner and another tech or flip flopping back and forth to do catch up to get the engine installed.
And and the second assumption was they must have bricked it using aftermarket software like HP tuners.
Yep, simple, let's not waste a bunch of time here.
You know 30 minutes We'll cut our diagonal half.
I don't want to cost you anymore, I'm already gonna cost you.
Here we go again with trying to be helpful.
And they got an ECM, they got a TCM, they put them in the vehicle, didn't fix it, so went back.
I said no more.
This never happened, started over from scratch and not even 10 minutes.
I found a ground wire that was tucked up behind the, the driver side, like underneath the cylinder head, between the head and the exhaust manifold.
Sure enough, clamp that thing down with a vice grip, turned it on.
I could talk to everything.
Who knows what happened from the moment they hooked up the HP tuners rebranded device till I got there.
But the point remains.
I made two assumptions.
I didn't, I did.
I trusted someone to do the job previous to me correctly.
And then to you, just assume some software nuke to module, because we've all seen software nuke modules.
People break stuff and I was trying not to run up a bill because I didn't want to cost my customer any more time or money, so that's a negative right.
How I was able to turn this around is they were able to return the engine controller, because it Won't go into how, but it was brand new when it got put back in the box.
Okay, the TCM is unreturnable, right.
But I said, hey, go ahead and plug the old TCM and just make sure it communicates.
Everything's good.
I'm gonna go make a phone call while you do that and when I come back I think I might have a way to make some ground up on this TCM.
They said, okay, went outside and I called my transmission shop.
I said, hey, I've got X part number.
It's an AC Delco brand new module.
It's been replaced.
This place is gonna have to send back something as a core.
So how about you give me a bad six-speed TCM for a core and they sell you this TCM that they just bought for a pretty awesome deal and he said, sold.
So I was able to get my customer core money back by sending a bad TCM from my transmission shop back in as a core and then During the course of my day, I was able to.
You know, exchange checks and and parts.
So my shop ended up not having to eat as much of a bad situation, which was partially both of our faults, right, but I was able to somewhat turn lemons and eliminate and that shop was so thankful to me that I even Took the time to try to help them dig out of that hole, because it wasn't really something that could have been prevented.
The poor kid that was working on it got hurt.
Stuff happens.
We all misdiagnosed stuff.
Anybody says they don't.
They're lying.
I screwed up because I didn't follow process and assumed that this shop was so good I wouldn't have to go back and check stupid basics.
But I ended up helping Two customers at the same time.
My customer basically got a half-off TCM that he could use, got rid of a bad core.
My customer got a little bit of money on top of their core charge and I did Charge them for my diagnostic time but I did give them a bit of a discount because I wasted some time making assumptions.
So I still got paid that.
Lines in the sand.
I can't operate a business final make profit.
But I didn't take the whole time because some of that time that I spent I don't feel should have been built Right.
That was a mistake on my part, but after it was all said and done, I still earned a profit.
Both of my customers ended up with a positive outcome.
Everybody won.
Even though it was kind of a turd sandwich, so to speak, I tried to sprinkle some seasoning on it so it's easier to chug down that.
All my customers are stoked, happy as can be, I get to wear the dunce hat for, you know, breaking my own process, breaking my own procedures.
But without those relationships I don't think I could have Remotely come close to pulling that type of situation off.
Within 10, 15 minutes, a phone call, and hey, here's what we're gonna do.
So yeah, yeah, boy, it's good to have those resources too.
I got a couple transmission shops.
They'll call if I'm in the middle of a diagnostic on something.
I'm like I don't know how all the internals of this transmission work or how does this torque converter, you know, flow through this valve body work.
And I call these guys and they're just like, yeah, check this, here's all this works, blah, blah, blah.
And they're totally just Willing to help me out with that information and kind of the same thing for me too.
They'll call and say programming lies.
You know, can I, can I do this?
Can I put this into this?
Okay, yeah, not I'm, you know, I'm fine helping them out there and you like, you build up that, that trust in people to Do doing good work and doing things for them where you can.
And then, when it comes to a bad situation Like you're talking about, which I've been into, like hey, modules brick every once in a while, right, I've had that happen GM TCM's, some ECM's and stuff, like stuff happens, right, stuff turns in a brick.
Sometimes you can recover it, sometimes you can't.
But in cases where, hey, that that module is dead to the world there's been three or four times I can think of where I've offered to the shop hey, I'll pay for this, right, this happened.
Well, we were doing it, our fault or not.
Maybe it was TLC, it was in one case.
But I was like, hey, this is on us, I'll pay for this.
I have yet to have a shop actually take me up on that.
They're like no, don't worry about it, man, we'll take care of it.
And whether warranty in and out or whatever they're doing, they're just like hey, man, we, we appreciate what you do for us.
This is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.
We'll just get another one.
And I Feel like I Mean, who knows?
But I feel like if I was just, you know, cold, hard business dickhead every single time I went in.
Maybe that's not the case, right, maybe then I'm buying a TCM in that case.
But in the cases that it's happened, it's been, it's been good they're just like not, don't worry about it, we'll get, you know, we get Gemma next one and we're all good.
Yeah, I, I definitely think it's worthwhile to build that, that trust up with shops.
Yeah, and Be careful when you build relationships.
Don't turn them into friendships.
Yeah, don't always be the the guy who, when someone calls and they want X, you just like okay, it's this much, go do it a plug-in program and oh, didn't, fix problem audio, see you later, don't?
When you're that guy, the word will spread that one negative interaction can turn into a large amount of people Thinking negatively of you.
Yeah, yeah, for sure, definitely.
Well, what?
What is the, the crazy vehicle that you want to talk about?
That, that's over auto man like it was over auto.
Okay yeah.
It so that ground.
It was like it was intermittently making contact so the check engine light would flash.
It was doing some crazy stuff.
Yeah, I can't remember all.
I should have saved screenshots, man it was.
It was nutty.
They showed me screenshots of, like HP tuners.
They were able to read it.
So my thought process it must have been that that was just making enough contact.
They were able to do that initial read and then I think it failed, going like halfway through the TCM read and that's why my gut was like that's bricked.
And even they were, when they first called me, said hey, we think we bricked something.
So I was letting that customer steer my diagnostic approach From the get-go.
And these are great people, I've helped them out.
It's like hey, we've been in this situation, got any silver bullets right.
Like hey, you know, I have seen this bullet from whatever In the same case is true, I've called them like hey, I've got this really strange drivability fault, because these guys do a lot of drivability and they've thrown me some bones, so that relationship can bite you.
And the fact that I didn't step back and say hey, walk away.
I don't want to hear anything at all.
Tell me the no communication.
Got it, we're gonna start there.
Um, when I came back the next day, that's when I had that fresh slate like nope, don't talk to me, I'm gonna go over here in this corner.
Yeah, leave me alone.
I'm setting a timer for one hour.
Don't come.
Don't want to hear anyone, don't want to see anyone, I need to start over.
And 10 minutes.
It took me 10 minutes.
As soon as I heard the relay clicking, I was like, uh, something's not right.
When started checking powers and grounds and, sure enough, found the high voltage on the ground.
I was like, ah, that's not right.
And found the ground location, stuck my arm in there, outcomes the cable.
So it was just.
It was really strange.
It was flashing check engine light, relays were clicking, so yeah, me and Steve have that kind of we.
We do serve a rotation and we try to limit it to an hour where we're on something and if one of us stuck We'll rotate somebody else in.
And you know, sometimes it is good for you to come back to you.
You already know what's going on.
But that Fresh set of eyes on it and like, hey, here's what I experienced.
But hey, you take a look at this and just see, and that's worked out quite a bit, is Well, we'll kind of set somebody up with a problem and what we found or what Waller up against, but having the second person come in fresh and jumping into it, that has gotten us through a lot of problems too.
So it's nice to have a second person to To fall back on.
Um, that is one area actually that has been challenging is, you know, I built the business up.
It was just me for the first four years that I was doing it, and every time I go to do work it's Sean, right, and so the kind of trust that we've been talking about it doesn't immediately extend to a new person, right?
So I have somebody doing my phones now and I have had Steve since February doing Work, that have to work in a second van, and that's been really challenging, especially with certain shops.
Some places are okay with it, but then there's certain shops who are really distrusting of him and for no real reason other than the fact that he's not me, and I tell him like yes, okay, this is what Steve said is this is what it needs, or just programming in general.
I have one shop that calls me and asks me like I don't think Steve programmed it right.
I'm like no, there's the screenshot, it's the same thing I would have done.
Well, can you just come check it?
I'm like I don't need to come check it, like here's the screenshot from tlc.
It's weird how that you know it's.
It's almost like it was to my detriment in certain cases to build that up, because then I want to bring somebody else in it's not Sean and oh boy, what's this noise doing?
Well, you know that's been, that's been a challenge for me and I'm doing my best to overcome it and I think it's just a time thing in a lot of cases.
Right, he's just gotta, he's got to be in there and Start it.
You start at the bottom and work your way up with that trust factor with these shops, so, but that is that.
That's been interesting for me.
That's something that I've been on the the lookout for is the thought of expansion or the thought of hiring an employee and Slowly moving away from working into on the business.
Right, I have a good friend that's close to me.
He's a tech.
He does awesome at diagnostics.
He can do programming.
He's limited, more so in the tooling than he is the knowledge he.
Just he doesn't have the money to just go.
I'm just gonna go buy an mvp.
Right, they're back in stock.
Does tsp still say that?
Anyways, he's a great guy.
I'd hire him in a heartbeat.
Right, but the the issue that I face is how do I roll or phase that in?
I have to have enough money set aside to continue to pay him until I get the ball rolling.
I'd love for him to ride with me for at least a month that way I'm like hey, you know, this is so-and-so.
I'm not gonna name him, just in case his shop owners listen Like, hey, this is so-and-so, he's awesome guy.
I've known him for years.
He's gonna start running around, so you need to be able to recognize him.
So when you call, this is the guy you're gonna speak sometimes and then getting that ball rolling.
He sounds like you are thinking the way I would like to think, taking me out of a van and putting me into a dispatching and management role than hiring a dispatcher.
You know, and yeah, then you.
The person on the phone isn't Sean.
They're like whoa, who are you?
Because they call and speak directly to me and they're gonna feel very uneasy when they hear a different voice and it's All these stumbling blocks that have to be on the phone with us dispatcher hey, it's Zach, but we're gonna talk to John.
John's my dispatcher and we're training this week, you know, get him used to it.
So that's my big fear is Customer relations and then, as you grow, taking your personal touch off of it and some people won't care at all and others will.
It's gonna be like pulling teeth.
Right, and exactly for the reasons of what we've been talking about, right, all the stuff that you're talking about building up it's personal, right, it's between you and that shop and you and that other person, and so you are.
You're kind of taking that away a little bit when you introduce a different person that's either doing the work or answering the phones.
And I kind of did both.
You know, I hired my guy to run the fan and then I was kind of considering, okay, do I go with the second fan?
And I went the other route, as I hired somebody to do the business side of stuff for me, because we hear that all the time right, work, work on the business, not in the business.
Okay, and maybe I'll learn my lesson someday, but I don't want to do that.
I still want to fix the cars.
That's what I'm good at, that's what I enjoy.
So I'm gonna hire somebody that can do that stuff for me and I'm gonna go out and work the cars and I can have the final say on stuff and, right, I'm involved with the decisions.
But like, hey, you business this thing for me and I will fix the cars.
Right, that's, that's worked out good for me.
But there are growing pans right.
Like you say, the phone calls it's not Sean anymore, it's Mike, but my day is so tremendously easier not having to answer the phone every what seemed like five minutes for another conversation for somebody who just wants some help and friendly.
You know, it's been such a such a great thing for me.
So it's like it's worth that growing pain to get some help in there and get some assistance and and he's learning right, he doesn't have an automotive background.
That was a big challenge for me, so I did.
I had him drive around with me for the first couple weeks and introduce hey, this is Mike, this is who you'll talk to and he's very personable, which is a good factor.
Well, when he'll call me, be like what's an APM?
He called me the other day.
It's like I've never heard of such a thing.
Like the shop wants to know if we can program one and I have like a module reference sheet for him, but he doesn't know the lingo right and that's been, that's been tough, but you know it's that's growing a business.
You just got a, you got to train people in and work through the stumbling that's gonna happen inevitably, and look towards the bigger picture of like this is gonna be really good once Everything's in place and everybody has an idea of what's going on.
Yeah, and it sounds like all the different Aspects that have been talked about on your podcast other automotive podcast like diagnostic process and having procedures and following all of those processes and procedures and they all tie in right.
Everything's interconnected, yeah, and it's very hard to separate the conversation in any one particular way but, yes, they all interconnect.
And taking those growing pains and just working through them, I think you're all better off for it.
Me as I continue to grow, you as you continue to grow those five minute Conversations eat up 15 minutes of your time.
There went a quarter of your hour that you were just diagnosing.
That was billable time and just rolls on.
Yep, I remember the day where I decided I'm gonna, I'm gonna go for this.
I was in a car for 45 minutes and I hadn't done anything on the car, just answered my phone calls.
I'm like this is stupid, what am I doing?
And yeah, it's been been absolutely amazing to not have that phone ringing off the hook all day.
I'm so much more focused on what I'm doing Now, like I say, that's what I enjoy.
Doing is out there, like you know, elbow deep in it.
That's what, that's what, that's what Sean wants, and maybe someday that'll change and I'll sit behind a desk or something, but not anytime soon.
Well, as long as you're happy.
At the end of the day, that's what we're in business for, for ourselves.
For we want to be happy when you go to work.
So if you're someone that wants to sit on the beach and sip a fruity drink with a you know Little umbrella in it, and that's your goal, by all means.
But if you want to stay in the trenches, have at it, man, as long as you're happy, that's what we all do this for.
Yes, sir, cool man.
Well, thanks for spending some more time with me.
It's always a pleasure to get to talk with you, so I appreciate that.
I appreciate it as well.
Hopefully my ramblings and strange Drawn together thoughts end up being edited to sound somewhat out.
So All right, that is gonna do it for today's episode.
Big Thank you to Zach for joining me on the show.
Always appreciate it.
It's always great to talk to Zach.
Hopefully you enjoyed that as well, but I'd also like to give a thank to everybody Listening to the show, all the feedback that I've gotten about the show.
It's all been great, so keep it coming.
With that all out of the way, though, let's get out there.
Start fixing the world, one card at a time.
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