241: All the Names

This is the What Car? EV Podcast for Thursday, September 25th, 2025.

Episode 241, All The Names.

I did a little bit of driving around the country this weekend.

Well, weekend? What day is it?

The Red Warrior, you are.

And I didn't even realize the state that I was in, like, physical state, but I could mean anything as well.

Which one of America's 50 states that I was driving for at the time, because you're just driving.

And then I saw this sign that said Lordstown.

And I'm like, I know this place.

Yeah. So I take a picture and text you like, hey, look at this.

Small world.

Yeah. A manufacturing plant that is of no interest in the world except for absolute geeks of the automotive

culture.

And speaking of absolute geek, then I actually drove one.

You did.

And that one probably either got sold for a lot of money or got crushed.

Yeah.

Because I think it went up for auction, didn't it?

It was probably in that batch that went up for auction that was, remember that?

There was one that, what was that called?

Or did you just say it?

I'm still not awake for my trip.

What?

The, what was the Lordstown?

Endurance.

That's what the Lordstown truck was called.

So yes, if people missed it, Lordstown was automotive manufacturing plant.

Was it GM?

GM, formerly GM, yeah.

And then from there got purchased by Lordstown Motors, an EV company that then struggled sold it to Foxconn.

Which I don't know what the current status is.

Yeah, with the promise that Foxconn would produce the Lordstown trucks and then Lordstown then immediately went bankrupt.

And Foxconn, who knows?

I've lost track at this point.

I'm Phil Roy.

There you go.

And I don't really know where I am at this point.

I've had a couple of 23 hour days in a row and.

So physical state, both literally and metaphorically TBD.

Yes.

I'm here physically, but maybe not mentally.

We'll find out.

I'm excited to see what we talk about.

We did a quick brief rundown for me before this show and I'm like, I could I could talk about all this stuff.

But keep in mind, folks, I don't actually know anything about what I'm going to get my opinion on.

And you've got about four hours of sleep.

I think I got nearly five last night.

Oh, OK.

It's pretty good.

Yeah.

All right, Ed Sanchez got a little more sleep than that last night, pretty sure.

As long as one of us is competent on this episode, that would be good.

Four plus years of podcasting, still of niche interest, but hopefully growing.

Anyway, yeah, we got some exciting news today.

And and as Phil mentioned, I did actually get a chance to drive a Lordstown endurance.

But not recently.

That was back in the days.

This was a couple of years ago.

I think I think I might have done a review on her blog for it.

So I want to say you find that we'll post it.

And it wasn't a bad one either.

Like you didn't really have anything bad to say for a work truck.

No, the concept was solid.

The execution and some of the technicals were kind of here.

I remember the charging port was like a little awkward.

There was like various things that and then if you looked at the efficiency

numbers, it was not particularly efficient.

But in terms of the driving experience and the approach and concept, I thought

I thought I had some merit, but yeah, unfortunately, never caught on.

And nobody else did.

I guess I was the only one.

What's up for this week?

What are we going to talk about?

Well, we're so I can't remember a couple of episodes ago.

The Yang Wang Unine set a speed record, I think.

And now we have another Yang Wang Unine setting another speed record.

So this is a different car, but extreme model.

But it's the same.

It's just different because I saw this article.

I was like, we already we already did the Zed and you're like, no, no, no.

This one's different.

So what's the difference?

What's the Unine extreme?

So I guess this is I'm assuming production intent, although production

is maybe a generous term.

Supposedly they're only going to build 30 of these.

But how many of the Neveras were they going to build?

They were going to build like 150 or 200.

Yeah.

I don't know if they ever got there.

I think they kind of fell short.

Well, I mean, so this is a whole other discussion about is is

their demand in the ultra high end market for super powerful EVs.

Anyway, not to get too off topic.

So, so before it hit like I think like 293 or something.

So it was knocking on the door of the Bugatti, but not

not quite there.

And I guess this surpassed that officially.

So anyway, it hit 308 miles an hour.

So, you know, everybody needs to go that fast.

Yes, I can't remember.

I mean, you'll you'll have to do the math on the kilometers

an hour because, you know, that's what the rest.

I don't care.

We use freedom units here.

Freedom units.

So that's, I don't know, like 60 bald eagles.

I don't know.

So, so some other highlights of this evidently first production

car with a 1200 volt platform.

That's a lot of volts.

Yeah.

But that's exactly where I think all these ultra high

performance expense, I don't know how expensive this is, but

I'm guessing it's pricey.

This is exactly what they should be doing.

Crazy high voltage, like stupid, weird, fast charging,

like all these things.

This is where you push that limit.

You don't push that limit in like a Corolla EV, like that's

not, we don't need to.

Well, I mean, you know, it goes back to the whole idea of

like motor sports, you know, kind of pushes the industry.

Exactly.

Eventually that technology filters down to the mainstream.

So anyway, stay tuned.

We have some other thoughts kind of along those lines.

But anyway, the quote regular U9 I think is about

a quarter million.

So I'm assuming this will be a little more than that.

But probably still less than the two million plus of the

Remat-Snavera or Bugatti Chiron or however that's.

Yeah, I think it's something like that.

Do you know if I'm busy?

If you're sitting on youtube.com slash at the walk car,

you will see me busily not paying attention.

And I'm trying to discover if this is a multi gear

transmission or if they did this with a single speed.

I think it's single speed.

Wow.

Yeah.

But I mean, if you know, doing the math, each the motor

in each wheel is 750 horsepower.

So I'm assuming it's powerful enough that they can get away

with a single speed, which is even more impressive.

But yeah, that's wild.

Yeah.

As far as I know, this is just a single ratio drive on

this.

So that's quite an accomplishment.

Can you imagine if they geared that so we could only

do like 200 miles an hour or like 180, you'd have no

traction in any.

Well, not only that, I would say the acceleration would

probably be so ferocious.

It would probably black you out.

I don't think they could get traction.

It would be probably one of those things where like at

any speed, it could just light up all the tires.

Well, maybe.

Well, okay.

So if you if you have this the mile per hour, I don't

maybe this is completely incorrect, but wouldn't you double

the gear ratio or half the gear ratio, whatever, like.

You'd basically double the torque multiplication.

Yeah.

I think.

So yeah, I get what you're saying.

So well, do you remember that like college experimental

car they they did in Switzerland or something that did

zero to 16.9 seconds?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was like 80 miles an hour, but but getting there

was like boom.

Yeah.

They did it in.

I can't remember.

They measured it in feet and it was a very small number

of feet that it got to 60 miles an hour.

It was it was.

Yeah.

Well, I think I think we're you know, I just just

as inside just for for curiosity.

I looked up some of the terminal velocities of

aircraft and most propeller aircraft have a cruising

speed of about 170 ish miles per hour.

So this is faster than most of those.

Now some of the faster like turboprops or they can get

they can approach 400 now commercial airliners are

like 400 plus, I think.

Yeah, no.

And there are reports like have a commercial of commercial

airliners with a good tailwind on a good day actually

nearing Mach 1 in like 700 something miles an hour.

Okay.

Yeah, they don't normally go that fast.

But like when the conditions are perfect that there

are a couple cases where like a 737 or whatever it is

is actually neared or exceeded Mach 1.

Yeah.

But generally you're cruising at like 500 miles an hour,

I think.

Yeah, for but still, I mean, we're we're getting into

like aircraft level velocities with this.

So why can't we add wings and this is our flying car?

Well, you know, it is China.

So, you know, they're probably working on it.

I know I saw some pretty wild concepts that see

us from Chinese automakers like literally doing like a flying

car concept.

And I don't know if they ever actually made it to production,

but they they sounded pretty serious about it.

And I'm like, all right, well, crazy talk.

All of these like flying cars things very fast.

So this next vehicle is not quite as fast.

I if I venture to guess.

In fact, I would say this next vehicle is not fast at all.

I would say that it's so not fast.

It's not going to exist.

Well, okay.

Yeah, we're getting there.

So you remember was probably I won't say about 18 months ago at

this point, Ram said they were going to the Ram rav full battery

electric truck with a massive like, I don't know where they're

saying like 230 kilowatt hour.

Yeah, all the battery, all the battery and they were

claiming 500 mile battery range, which yeah, and we speculated

that this thing probably weigh about 10,000 pounds.

But yeah, but it would actually be useful for trucks.

Yeah, items like towing because that was what we discovered

with the Silverado EV is you put a giant battery in it and it

can actually tow and be useful.

So that's that's no more now the name the name is living on.

So so here's the little switcheroo.

So they're canceling the full battery electric version.

They're still going to do the range extender, but instead

of calling it the Ram charger, they're going to call the range

extended model the Rev now wait.

So OK, this goes back to me not being away.

Stay with me.

So Ram was making they were going to make a full electric

truck and what was that going to be called was going to be

the Rev.

OK, and then the range extended version, which would be the

Ram charger.

OK, and now now just the range extended version, which is a

gasoline engine, presumably gasoline engine.

No, it's in a star v6.

OK, powering a battery pack and then the electric motors will

drive the tires the gasoline engine won't.

OK, so that will now be called all the names that they were

going to divide up.

It's now all that's going to be the Rev.

The range extended is going to be the Rev and there's

something this is totally in the side.

There's some speculation that the Ram charger name will also

be used for a ram badged version of the Wagoneer.

Again, totally speculative, but that's one rumor floating

around out there.

So the Ram charger name may not be dead, but not in the

way we thought it would.

This really isn't a surprise to me anyway, not the name

thing, but the them canceling.

No, because I mean, I think where the current the current

state of technology, current state of infrastructure.

I honestly think pure electric trucks are not a good choice

right now.

I would not.

I mean, unless a guy was like just a weekend warrior, you

know, Home Depot weekend projects, stuff like that, which

is probably the majority of half time.

Yeah, so, you know, if they wanted to get a lightning

or an R1 or whatever, I'd say, yeah, sure, great.

But if they're like, oh, yeah, I tow and do this and that.

I'd say, but they said, well, I still want an electric.

I'd say, well, I'd wait until the, I guess the Rev now

comes out or something with the range extended option

because I really think that's a lot more practical right

now.

So yeah, certainly for my application, I would not be

dropping $80,000 on an electric truck for what I need.

Yeah, on what I need.

It's just simply not going to fulfill my needs.

Yeah, but a range extended one would 100% fulfill my needs.

So I can't disagree with this.

Now that said, if I only went and went mountain biking

or surfing lightning is fine.

Yeah.

Is it?

Yeah.

No, I think the lightning works for a lot of people.

But once you really start using a truck as a truck.

Yeah.

Once you're six or 7000 pounds in long distances, you're going

out into mountains.

Just it's not going to do it.

It's not going to cut it.

Anyway, I bet that this is not based on that.

I bet this is based on the political environment right

now and the fact that all the emissions are getting

dialed back or at least that's the plan.

I don't know if it's happened or not because I've

not been paying attention to the world.

Well, that certainly seems how Stellanis is running their

business lately.

Yeah.

At least in North America.

Ironically, they're really pioneering some pretty

advanced EV technologies in Europe, but in America,

they're going full.

Yeehaw.

So speaking of which along the same lines.

So you remember how only a few months ago, they were

like, oh, yeah, we're going to do a four by E version

of the Gladiator.

Uh huh.

Yeah.

Well, that's not happening.

Hmm.

So, um, yeah, I was kind of kind of looking forward

to it in kind of a abstract sense.

Not that I buy one.

I'm not.

Why would they not do one?

Because a four by E is just a hybrid hybrid.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's not.

It's still the gasoline powers the tires with an

assist from electric motor.

Why would I got to believe that all this is is a

body on a unlimited.

It's it's what's a longer wheelbase, but yeah, it's

effectively stretched unlimited with the with the

bed on it.

Yeah.

So why would they not want to do that?

I think probably because the first of all, the tax

credits disappearing.

So that's part of it because I think maybe they

were counting on that to kind of offset the cost.

And now that that there's no longer cafe penalties,

they're like, who cares?

Do you think we're going to like right now

in California, the state you and I live in in

case you didn't remember that right now you go to

a Jeep dealership and I believe you can only buy

four by E unlimiteds.

You can't buy any of the lot off the lot.

Everything else is a special order special order.

Yeah.

So is that going to change?

I haven't heard of a change in strategy for the

Wrangler and not only that from what I've heard

that the four by E Wranglers are actually

selling pretty well on their own.

Just, you know, I think, I think maybe initially

there's a little pushback and people say, Oh,

I don't want this.

And then they drove.

I actually drove one at an event a little probably

like two years ago and it's there.

I mean, they got 470 pound feet of torque.

So I mean, it was pretty punchy.

I was pretty impressed by now.

Grant, it was just kind of a down the block

and back short test.

Yeah.

But yeah, I mean, they're there.

They got plenty of power and they're pretty punchy.

So, I mean, I think from a drivability standpoint,

it's, it's, you know, pretty compelling experience.

But yeah, I think, you know, now that there's no longer

the stick of cafe fines and regulations are kind of

like nobody really cares.

And plus the added cost of, you know, the hybrid power

train, they're like, this thing's probably going to

cost 60 on the low end, probably $60,000.

Probably mid higher and 75, 80 grand and they're like,

nobody's going to buy this.

So, I mean, again, you could speculate on exactly

why they did, but I think my feeling is that they're

keeping a lot of this stuff in their back pocket

for when there's a change of administration and most

likely a change in rules regarding fuel economy

efficiency, so forth.

And then, so they're just kind of, I think delaying

that for a few years.

I think you'll probably see this model eventually,

but not immediately.

You think they're still continuing to put money

into development of this stuff?

Or do you think they're just pausing the programs

and saving the money?

I would think the R&D on this, I mean, they, they

announced it a few months ago, like it was pretty imminent.

And so they just very kind of suddenly just, I would guess

that the R&D on this is basically done.

That my guess, if we do see this model, my guess

is it would be probably like 27, 28 when it comes.

Yeah, the only concern I have with all like whatever,

I mean, this administration is doing some wild things

with emissions and whatnot.

And yeah, if the next president comes in and they're

a Democrat or they're a more like Republican Republican

and not progressive Republican in terms of environmental,

yeah, then then everything will swing back.

I'm wondering how far back this administration is setting

us in just the development of this.

Are they pausing?

Are the manufacturers pausing the development?

They're just going, okay, well, that team, we're not

going to have to worry about this for at least

the next three years.

So that team can go off and they can do something else

and we'll think you figure out how to stuff the Hemi

in the gladiator.

Yeah, would save already done.

But so I just that's my only concern is that it's not

just that we're pausing the release of the vehicles

is that we're pausing the development and setting

ourselves back, which the rest of the world.

I mean, if it's only American manufacturers that

are doing it, then they're not really getting

any further behind each other, but the rest

of the world is continuing the development and

all it does is set us up for failure down the road

because we won't be able to compete will be four

years behind on where we should have been.

And already we can't produce things that are

competitively priced as it is.

So we're going to have things that are more

expensive with fewer features.

My my feeling is they've just delayed or slowed

down the market launch and and at least

temporarily the development resources on some of

these models.

I mean, Ford, you know, Ford did a big presentation

a few months ago on their future, you know, modular

EV sort of thing.

You remember that presentation Farley did.

Yeah.

And where they're going to basically completely

reconfigured the Louisville plant where they

make the escape right now.

It's going to be all EVs.

So I think that stuff is still happening

in the background and I still think and again,

this is just my kind of analysis of this.

There's still kind of a consensus in the auto

industry that come.

2028 2030 things are going to flip again where

there's going to be a much larger emphasis on

environmental friendliness, fuel economy, so forth.

So I think they're they're just kind of tapping

the brakes a little bit for now.

And especially in the case of Stellantis,

they need sales badly because the last few

quarters they've not done well.

Yeah.

And they've in some ways kind of dug a hole for

themselves for so many years by kind of doubling

down on the hammy bad boy tire smoke and kind of

image and they've basically conditioned their

customers to want that.

So when Tavares very suddenly kind of flip

the switch and said, okay, we're killing

the hammy, we're going EV, we're going to do

this hurricane turbo six and all that.

It really alienated a lot of their customers.

So, you know, for better for worse, I think

Stellantis at least in the near term is going

to have to kind of placate their customer base,

bring back the hammy, you know, as much as

they can and, you know, try to build up their

sales before a few years down the road.

They're going to have to flip the switch again

and go in a more, you know, progressive

direction with their powertrain strategy.

Anyway, that's just my take.

But yeah, anyway.

Now, well, so to prove my point a little bit,

the next item that you put on this rundown is

a foreign company that is continuing its

development of things like range extension range

extended vehicles.

Well, because they're a global company.

They're and they do have a significant

presence in the US and North America, but

they're also all over the world.

The Hyundai Group.

So they said, but what's kind of interesting

though is a few years ago, Hyundai was saying,

oh, we're all in on EVs now that they're still

kind of flirting with fuel cells a little bit,

but they were super, super bullish on EVs.

They're doing God's work with the fuel cells.

Yeah.

And now they're they're kind of backtracking

a little bit by saying they're going to bring

out a bunch of what they're calling E rev

or range extended electrics in 2027.

So again, that's kind of an interim step

toward full EVs.

I still consider the Hyundai Group.

I would among the mainstream OEMs is kind of

a leader in EVs, you know, with the EGMP vehicles.

But I think they're getting the sense

that a lot of customers are still not ready

to make the full leap.

So they're saying, okay, in the interim,

we're going to do these range extended models

kind of, you know, kind of training wheels

for people that are kind of EV curious,

but not quite ready to make the full full leap.

So anyway, those are coming in 2027.

They said they're targeting 600 plus miles of range.

They say they're going to use in-house developed batteries.

But even even so, my guess is they're probably

going to partner with either LG Samsung or SK for that

because even Tesla, they're in-house battery packs

or with Panasonic.

So anyway, so anyway, specific models and brands

were not specified, but a lot of people are thinking

that's probably going to include a Genesis model.

So anyway.

Does I, as somebody that I've kind of come

through an EV journey over the last five years

where I didn't care at all about them five years ago.

You were definitely skeptic.

Yeah, I mean, I wasn't like anti-EV.

I'm just like, I don't get it.

Like, I just we'll see, you know.

And I'm in the, I've been in the automotive industry

for 20-something years reporting on all of this stuff.

And so, yeah, I'm fully aware that things change.

And one of the things that caught my attention

about it was that it was coming in and disrupting

and that if I was to kind of concentrate on a niche

that this is the most exciting niche that there is.

And that's kind of what drew me into this

as just an automotive nerd.

It's like where people love supercars.

You're never going to own one, you know, a supercar,

but you can love the supercars

and you can know all there is about it.

And so it was kind of like, you know, whatever,

just curious, curiosity for me.

So one of the things that people have talked about

in all of that time is you don't need to go

more than 200 miles on an EV.

Anything over that is a waste of time

and that you really only drive 24 miles a day

or 30 miles a day.

And so EVs with 200, 240 miles of range.

Like that's kind of a, you know, that's more

than you'll ever need.

So why is 600 plus miles a selling point

for these?

I just I just is.

I don't know.

I mean, even in the like the mainstream commercials

I see for like the Civic Hybrid or something,

I think they're touting like, you know,

500 plus range.

So that's still a thing with consumers.

I think for dealers and brands

that are still not really on the leading edge

with EVs, they want to move what they have

not future promise.

So I think long term marketing pivot

is difficult with when you're saying.

By our EVs, they only do 250 miles,

but that's all you need.

You don't need anymore.

And oh, by the way,

look at this 600 mile gas vehicle

that we also sell.

It's a very difficult thing to speak

out of both sides of your mouth,

especially at the same dealership

where you're saying somebody will be like,

oh, I can only do 200 miles.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's fine.

You know, let's do the math.

You don't need anymore.

And but then also sell something that 600

miles where you theoretically wouldn't need

to fill up until once a month.

I mean, that's as good as electric for me

because everybody says with electric,

oh, you you don't ever fill it up.

You just come home and you plug it in

and you fill it up.

Well, that's great.

But the one road trip that you might take a month,

you've got to then find a fast charger

and sit there for maybe 30, 40 minutes.

If you got 600 mile range in 15 minutes,

you can fill it up for a month.

I mean, it's faster to do that.

So I don't understand.

It's very confusing when you're marketing to both sides.

Yeah.

And I get both sides of that argument.

So people probably listen.

I feel, you know, stupid, whatever.

But I'm just thinking from a marketing point

of view, you are stabbing yourself in the back

by touting 600 miles when at the same time

you've got to sell a vehicle that can only do

220 miles and you're trying to sell

to a market convincing them spend more

to go less far.

Yeah.

No, I mean, it's kind of a conundrum

because I think, you know,

my this is my cynical side coming out,

but they're basically appealing to people's insecurity

by touting the really long range.

Like, oh, you need this.

Whereas it's like you're saying that this is like

the guys that buy the big pickup trucks to compensate.

Well, they're doing a mileage range compensation.

Yeah.

I mean, so yeah, it's going to be interesting.

I mean, just imagine the Stelanus deal

or the the Dodge dealers in a few months

when they're going to have the hurricane

and the EV chargers, you know, side by side

and, you know, how they're going to try and sell that.

Yeah.

And if rumors prove true that they're trying to put

the the Hemi back in it.

I mean, so that's going to be really confusing.

Even though by most indications, the the Daytona EV beats

all I mean, I know if you've seen the videos,

even though on paper, it's a little less horsepower.

The off the line like zero to probably 90.

The the EV just demolishes even a even a red eye.

And they're like, dang, this thing is really fast.

Yeah, these were like haters.

They're like, oh, I hate this car, blah, blah, blah.

And they drove.

They're like, dang, yeah, really moves.

You know, butts in seats.

So everybody says butts in seats.

So yeah, I mean, to your point, this is it's going

to be interesting how when that day finally comes

when they kind of start shifting towards EVs,

how they're going to spin that.

But they'll just ignore the past.

It's just people have memory.

It just sticks in your head of like, oh, but my last car

went 600 miles and that was a selling point.

You know, that that was what swayed me was all that

marketing.

Yeah, but like you said, people are dumb.

Yeah, persuadable.

Oh, well, I'm a little more polite about it.

You know, but I wonder when the sales pitch

that the dealership is going to be, do you really need

that?

Yeah, what's your typical daily driving pattern?

Oh, this this would be perfect for you.

Yeah, 300 miles.

I yeah, I will carry on instead of anyway.

That horse.

So somewhat related to this last announcement, I guess

Hyundai said they're going to do a body on frame

midsize truck.

So this would be, I guess, a step above the

Santa Cruz.

So this would be like a Ranger Tacoma competitor.

So at the CEO Jose Munoz said the segment represents

a quote white space opportunity.

We were ready to capture.

And he said it'd be coming before 2030 and that

they could also do SUV variant.

So like a Bronco or forerunner type model.

But I thought about this and I'm like, is this

really the right strategy?

Because I look at between the Ranger and the Maverick,

the Maverick outsells Ranger three to one in the US.

I think, I mean, again, this is just my opinion.

I think the better strategy would be to make the

Santa Cruz, maybe kind of iterate and fine tune

that a little more.

I would love to see a Santa Cruz with the midgate.

I know you might my obsession with shocked.

Shocked as a former Avalanche owner.

But I think the Santa Cruz with the midgate would be fantastic.

If they wanted to make it a little kind of more macho

looking, style it like the new Santa Fe, a little, you

know, chunkier, more assertive.

Right now, it just kind of looks kind of like a kind

of like a Tucson pickup, basically.

Yeah.

So I think they could kind of chunk it up a little bit.

Like, I don't know if you've seen what Honda's

done to the Ridgeline, but the newer Ridgelines are a

lot kind of more aggressive looking.

They look more like Tacomas.

Yeah.

Whereas before, they look more like a pilot.

I was going to say pilot, but I'm trying to think

them the midsize, not Odyssey.

That's the minivan.

I might draw in a blank.

Anyway, you know what I'm talking about?

Yeah.

It just looked like a mainstream kind of SUV, but

they're like, nah, we want to make it a little

more kind of macho and assertive.

So if it were me, I'd double down on the Santa Cruz

and try to really do something with that.

But I mean, they're a multi-billion dollar

multinational company.

They got the resources within the group.

They have a body on frame pickup in the Australian

market, the Kia Tasman.

I don't know if you've seen that.

It's interesting.

The styling is they talked about electric or

anything with this.

There's speculation.

It might be a hybrid drivetrain, which makes sense

because they do offer one in the, there's a version

of the Tacoma that has the TRD Extreme or whatever

it's called.

It's got a hybrid powertrain and the overseas

there's a overseas version of the Ranger that

actually has a plug-in hybrid powertrain.

So it seems it looks to me like the midsize segment

is slowly kind of transitioning to more electrification.

So that would make sense.

So these two, these two news items could be related

not necessarily, but there could be some tie-in with

that anyway.

Yeah, it's, we've seen the electrification of

kind of everything.

And now, and this is after a few years of basically

everybody like us saying, what's the point in

having an electric truck unless it's a tiny truck?

And it seems like that's the future, the near future

is the full-size trucks and the larger trucks

are going to be hybrid, gas-only or hybrid.

And then maybe the little ones might be

electric or electric, whatever, but it seems

like trucks are going to be exactly what we said

they should be several years ago when everybody

started saying they're going to produce electric

trucks, which is put a gas engine in there

and make it useful and then take the cars

and do go fully with the passenger cars.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So speaking of kind of covering all the bases.

So BMW just showed off the new IX5.

So I guess they're doing five different powertrain

options with this.

Because why not?

Make things confusing.

So this will be offered with EV, plug-in hybrid,

gas, diesel and fuel cell.

Fuel cell?

Fuel cell.

Finally, somebody doing it right.

And guess who they could develop that with?

Is it Hyundai?

Toyota.

Oh, wait, Toyota.

Okay.

So, yeah.

So in terms of the market potential for that,

I got to wonder.

Because of all those other hybrid or all those other

hydrogens successful fuel cells.

Yeah, wildly successful fuel cells in the market.

So speaking of which, I had a friend text me

the other day and she was like, she was like,

can this price be true?

And she sent me a link to a listing on a Mirai.

And I think literally was only $7,000 and she said,

wow, this is an incredible deal.

I'm like, you think it is?

It's an incredible pain in the, you know what?

Yeah, because I said, it's almost impossible to find

fuel for these and half the time the stations are

out of out of condition.

So I said, do not get a Mirai.

And then on top of that, I don't know what the

pricing is now, but there was an article a couple

of years ago and how expensive it was to fill

up the Mirai.

Well, once you've blown through the credit

because when they sold these new, they came

with like a $15,000 fueling credit.

But once that's expired, I guess the like price

per gallon equivalency on hydrogen is something

like $10 a gallon.

Yeah, it was the equivalent of running like race gas

in a Camry.

Yeah, essentially.

So yeah, I could see why the price was so cheap.

But anyway, there's still, I guess BMW is still

committed to it and still thinks it's the future

and always will be.

And always will be.

Yeah.

So I don't know, what are your thoughts on this?

Every time.

So my kids are learning a couple of my kids are

learning about they're doing one of my kids is

doing this interesting thing in school where

they are taking cities.

Maybe this is just a granola tree hug and hippie

California thing, but they are taking theoretical

cities and the city requirements.

Keep in mind, this kid is in elementary school

and they're taking these theoretical cities

with the population and the requirements of like

what the city needs.

CO2 footprint and all that.

Well, no, they're determining what would be

the best electricity source for that city.

Whether it be solar, wind, nuclear, coal, gas.

Yeah.

And they're looking at the various elements,

the amount of footprint that they have available.

I mean, this is fourth grade.

Cost.

Yeah.

So they're I don't know if they're looking at cost

necessarily, but the so I was talking to her a

little bit about this and the only time that I

could come up with as a good use of hydrogen in

at all in any of this was producing green hydrogen

to power the city at night.

So excess power generation via solar during the

day or wind and then you can convert to your

excess into hydrogen to power at night because

that was one of the problems that they were having

in their study was nighttime or when it's not windy.

And you know, it well, of course, my easy answer

that is battery storage, but yes, but you could

also transport in hydrogen or you could store

you could transport it out.

You could you've got movability that comes

with hydrogen.

So yes, batteries also one of the things,

but I think batteries came part and parcel

with renewables with the renewables.

Yeah, because you'd have to buffer it into something.

So it's whether or not you build out the battery

or could you produce, you know, giant canisters

and you could store a ton of hydrogen.

But that was the only use case that I could find

for it.

I couldn't know where in there could it was

I like, yeah, you could do that.

And then the excess and then you could sell it

at the gas station for hydrogen powered,

you know, fuel cells nowhere in there was that.

So I don't know if like if you go to a lot of websites

now when you scroll to the bottom of the page,

you get kind of the clickbaity kind of scammy links

like, you know, doctors don't want you to know

this one big secret, you know, whatever.

And then another one that kind of pops up

every now and then is Toyota develops

water powered engines.

This will kill EVs.

Yeah.

And then I went into a reddit thread

and I guess some people that have some actual

knowledge of science broke this down and they said

this would actually be energy negative.

If you think about it, because in order to get

hydrogen from water, you have to do electrolysis

to separate the hydrogen and oxygen molecules.

And then when you recombine them, you're going

to have an energy loss.

So yeah, anyway, I we've talked a lot about

hydrogen and you want to talk about your personal

transformation.

I remember the early days of this, you were kind

of raw hydrogen.

Oh, yeah.

No, I know we had a till we had Charin on.

And yeah, that was about MCS.

And you're like, wow, okay.

That was the turning point was seeing megawatt

charging and the realities of that and what that

can mean for the industry beyond passenger, but

also to commercial heavy duty, like more heavy

duty with trucking with boats with airplanes, like

that I actually saw the potential of that.

And I'm still not a hundred percent sold that maybe

hydrogen doesn't serve a purpose somewhere in

aviation or something like that.

But it's definitely not mainstream and much like

and like now where they use bunker fuel in

the giant boats like we don't use bunker fuel.

There isn't a car that produce that uses

bunker fuel, but there is a niche.

If you don't know, bunker fuel is essentially one

step above tar.

Yeah.

What they reseal asphalt with.

Yeah.

And these there are these transport ships that use

bunker fuel, but it's not needed in anything

other than that one application.

So I could totally see where in some world where

we end up with and I'm just making stuff up,

but we end up with hydrogen powered powered

freighters.

Yeah.

Or yeah.

No, I could see that, you know, or trains or

something where it's just one specific application

when that made sense.

So I guess BMW, you keep your

still a believer working with Toyota on hydrogen

and you can sell it to the future of bunker

fuel replacement.

I don't know.

Yeah.

So this next one you want to talk about nerdy.

This gets super nerdy and full full disclosure.

I'm not an electrical engineer.

So the kind of the technical description of this,

I'm still trying to understand in my head.

So but I'm going to try and talk through it.

You said, oh, I have thoughts on this.

So I do.

I do.

Yeah.

Okay.

So Panasonic who, you know, the greater scheme

of things are not the largest, you know, I mean,

that's now like CATL and BYD and all that.

So they're I'd say probably number four or five globally in

terms of battery.

They were an early partner of Tesla.

That's kind of, I guess, how they got their notoriety

in this segment.

Panasonic is working on developing an anode free

battery and I was like, what?

So but I guess how they're doing this is when it's like

physically manufactured, it does not have an anode.

But and again, if you're an electrical engineer, please

comment on the YouTube video or email us, let us know kind

of how this works because I'm still not totally understanding

this when they charge the battery like just after

manufacturing, it basically develops the anode from

the charging process.

The charging process creates the anode.

So I guess the idea with this is they're more

volumetrically efficient and that rather than having to

physically produce and manufacture an anode at the

manufacturing stage, just by virtue of them, the charging

creating one, it increases the power density.

So

it's like what?

I don't understand it.

That said, we hear about battery technology changing

all the time.

This is going to be the game changer.

This goes back to what you were saying about water powered

engines and at the bottom of these, we be we've been

hearing about all this stuff for a while.

I just I want to aiming to have battery in production

by 2027.

We'll see.

Yeah, we'll see.

I I know that everything you need baby steps along

the way.

And I think we're always I don't know if this is a

baby step or if this is a giant leap.

I don't know.

But it couldn't be what it by 25% seems like a giant

leap to me and we're never we've never had as far as

I'm aware a giant or not.

We've never had you rarely have a giant leap.

You have tiny iterations and then you add those

up over a decade or two decades and you go, wow,

look how far we've come from the EV one to today.

All right, that's a quarter century.

We had a lot of progression in that amount of time,

but there was I don't believe there was any one moment

where they went, ah, here's where we get the extra 300

miles of range tomorrow.

All EVs get an extra 300 miles like that.

Well, so I to me the big breakthrough and I think

this is what everyone's really chasing is cost.

So it's one thing to develop this in for two point five

million dollar ultra exotic and say back to the Yang Wang

of the 1200 volt.

Yeah, that is exactly where these things get tested.

Yeah, but the challenge is to do this in large

volume, low cost, mainstream applications.

So again, I don't know where they are in that stage.

My guess is, you know, the early, early versions of this

are going to be not the cheapest maybe, but I mean,

it sounds like that with this process, maybe they

have cost in mind and that if it removes a stage

from the manufacturing process where they can basically

create the anode through just the charging.

I mean, I'm sure, you know, they're looking at

manufacturability with this.

So again, important if true 25% is huge.

So if this happens, this could be a pretty big breakthrough.

But yeah, I just so maybe I got really jaded with the

4680 cells the Tesla has where that was supposed

to be exactly this kind of game changer.

It was supposed to be the huge game changer.

It just wasn't.

It just well, no, but now and now, you know,

LFP was supposed to be the next big game changer.

Now they're talking about sodium batteries.

I think LFP is a game changer, but not in the sexy way.

I think it's the game changer in terms of the cost.

Yeah, costs and its ethical nuss of manufacturing.

Yeah, cutting out certain chemicals, things like that.

I think it's a it's a nerdy game changer, not a sexy game

changer.

Yeah.

So anyway, important if true.

We'll see what happens with that.

And last item.

Last item.

Okay.

The Nissan Aria came out like two years ago, I think.

Yeah, something like that midsize SUV, presumably kind

of Model Y competitor.

Yeah.

It kind of snuck up on us too.

Like they they were like, oh, we're going to produce this

and then it just kind of disappeared and then boom,

they were on the street.

I mean, that was how it was in my mind.

Yeah.

And I guess it's disappearing again.

So no longer on this.

Supposedly, yeah, Nissan is dropping the Aria from the US

market, not globally.

Interestingly, they're going to still sell it in overseas

markets, but it looks like they're really doubling down

on the new leaf as their volume play.

Some are speculating this has to do with the cancellation

of the tax credit.

And you'd think, you know, with Trump and his tariffs

and build in America.

And this is another interesting twist.

So the current leaf, the old like Chatham leaf that, you know,

with my charging story I told a little while ago, they actually

do build those in Tennessee.

But the new one, the 2026 with the dual, you know, Naxon

Naxon 1772 ports.

Those are only at least for now only being built in Japan.

So even the US model of the new leaf is going to come from Japan.

I'm trying to remember where they get 15% tariffs.

Yeah.

No, I was going to say with the billion percent tariff that goes

on there, but in the greater scheme of things, they got off

pretty, yeah, pretty light.

But anyway, so, so that's that's kind of the speculation

of why they dropped the Aria.

I don't I don't think the Aria was really burning up

the sales charts anyway.

So this makes me sad, though.

How so?

I like the Aria.

I think it's nice.

It's a handsome looking vehicle.

Yeah.

It's not going to like wow anybody, but they all they look

every Aria that I see looks nice cruising down the road

and parking inside the road.

I've not heard too many bad things about it.

It's not like the BZ4X that was like it just had charging

issues that maybe the Aria does.

I don't I just you don't hear about it.

So I assume it's just a generally good EV.

I know from what I from what I know of it.

It's just a nice solid selection.

Yeah, no, it's kind of a bummer.

I mean, I think whenever, you know, you have less choice.

It's not generally a good thing.

I understand from the business case, though.

You know, Nissan's new CEO.

He's really going after aggressively going after

cost-cutting.

I mean, they're closing one of their flagship buildings

in Japan.

They're the latest thing I heard is I guess for for, you

know, decades, they had a specific UV treatment on

interior materials, but that was before they started

instituting UV blocking glass.

So they're like, well, if we already have, you know,

UV glass, why do we still have to do this?

So they're they're looking at down to like the scent level

on trying to reduce costs.

So reduced cost on the flip side of that is increased

profitability.

So I kind of get why they're doing this.

But yeah, I mean, yeah, they're saying the the

underwear gnomes are the ones that are running the

show.

I that reference just went.

Yeah, that's that's like a 25 year old South Park

reference.

Okay.

I guess I'll have to go back on YouTube and look

that up.

Yeah, search for the underwear gnomes.

Yeah, I just I kind of always like these.

It's not stand out.

It's not like game changing.

Yeah, it's not a lucid.

It's not anything while it's just a solid.

It's like a nice comfortable pair of shoes or something

that this is just it snuck up on me and it quickly

like just became part of EV world them to me.

So this is another model that in my mind, like we

were kind of talking about the the gladiator 4 by

E.

This is a model I think will maybe at some point make

a comeback.

Maybe when they do the mid cycle refresh or redesign

my guess is it'll probably come back.

Yeah, purely speculative.

If I'm wrong, don't sue me.

Anyway, yeah, there you go.

That's pretty much it for this week.

That's it next week.

I'm on the road again.

Yeah.

But I think we're going to have a kind of a we're going to

chew dive into a we actually were thinking of discussing

it this week.

But I think you know what?

This is its own episode.

So yeah, so we're going to just pick a topic or

two and just chew on it for a while and make you

absolutely sick of that one topic by the time we're

done.

What do I say at the end of these episodes?

Because I don't remember anymore.

I say show notes are available in the show.

If you're listening to this on a podcast, it's already

there on your phone.

If you are watching it on YouTube, just scroll down a

little bit and then you don't have to look at our mugs

and you can read the show notes that are in there

where there will be links to everything that we talked

about.

I did say YouTube YouTube dot com slash at the what car

is where you can find us.

You can find us on social media is not all of them

and we're not super active.

The best thing you could do is share us on social

media.

You be our social media.

Do the work for us.

You're welcome.

I don't know.

There's what got on slash advertise, but did you

mention YouTube dot com slash at the what car?

I think I did, but I probably said it can't can't

be overstated.

Yeah, I cannot be overstated.

Tell your friends.

All right.

Talk to you about whatever it is we talk about

next week.

Maybe I'll actually be awake for next week.

I'm sorry.

241: All the Names

Rimac Nevera

Toyota Corolla

Dodge Ram

Chevrolet Silverado EV

Dodge Charger

Jeep Wagoneer

Ford F-150 Lightning

Jeep Gladiator

Jeep Wrangler

Hyundai Santa Cruz

Ford Ranger

Ford Bronco

Ford Maverick

Honda Ridgeline

Honda Odyssey

Toyota Mirai

Toyota Camry

Nissan Aria

Tata Motors Aria

Tesla Model Y

Toyota bZ4X

About this episode

Original notes