The Watt Car EV Podcast Nov 6, 2025

247: Looks at Our Shorts!

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48:56

Term

CAFE standards

CAFE standards are rules that car companies must follow to make their cars use less fuel. This helps save gas and reduce pollution.

Car

Toyota Corolla

The Toyota Corolla is a small car that's very popular because it's dependable and gets good gas mileage. Many people use it for daily driving to work or school.

Car

Toyota GR Corolla

The Toyota GR Corolla is a sportier version of the regular Corolla, made for people who want a faster and more exciting driving experience.

Term

visibility

Visibility means how well you can see outside the car. It's important for driving safely and knowing what's around you.

Concept

chassis

The chassis is like the skeleton of a car. It holds everything together, including the engine and wheels, and helps the car stay strong and stable.

Car

Suburban

The Suburban is a big family vehicle from Chevrolet that can carry a lot of people and cargo. It's great for road trips and has been around for a very long time.

Car

Yukon

The Yukon is a large SUV from GMC, similar to the Chevrolet Suburban. It's designed for families and has a lot of space for passengers and luggage.

Car

Ford

Ford is a popular car company in America that makes many types of vehicles, from trucks to sports cars. They're known for their reliable cars.

Brand

Mercury

Mercury was a car brand that used to be part of Ford. They made cars that were a bit fancier than regular Ford cars but not as expensive as luxury cars. Mercury is no longer making cars since 2010.

Car

Toyota RAV4

The Toyota RAV4 is a small SUV that many people like to drive. Recently, it has become available only as a hybrid, which means it uses both gas and electricity to run.

Car

Toyota Camrys

The Toyota Camry is a popular car that many people use for commuting. It has recently become available only as a hybrid, which helps save fuel and reduce pollution.

Term

front-wheel drive

In front-wheel drive cars, the front wheels get the power from the engine, which helps with handling and space inside the car.

Term

rear-wheel drive

In rear-wheel drive cars, the back wheels receive the power from the engine, which can improve performance and handling, especially during acceleration.

Term

all-wheel drive

In all-wheel drive cars, power is sent to both the front and back wheels, which helps the car grip the road better, especially in rain or snow.

Term

electric vehicle

An electric vehicle is a car that runs on electricity instead of gasoline. They are usually better for the environment and can save you money on fuel.

Term

E-axle

An E-axle is a part of a car that helps deliver power to the wheels using electricity instead of a traditional engine connection. It’s commonly found in electric and hybrid cars.

Term

HSD

HSD means Hybrid Synergy Drive, which is a system that uses both a gas engine and an electric motor to make cars more fuel-efficient and cleaner for the environment.

Car

Kia K4

The Kia K4 is a small car made by Kia, aimed at younger people with its cool design and features. It's part of Kia's plan to reach more customers.

Car

Kia Spectra

The Kia Spectra is a small, affordable car that Kia made from the early 2000s until 2009. It was a good option for people looking for a budget-friendly vehicle.

Car

Kia Forte

The Kia Forte is a newer small car from Kia that took the place of the Spectra in 2009. It has a modern look and better features, making it a popular choice among compact cars.

Car

The Toyota Prius is a car that uses both gas and electricity to help save on fuel and reduce pollution. The 2022 model got a new look and features, which makes it exciting for people who care about the environment.

Concept

fastback sedan

A fastback sedan is a type of car that has a smooth, sloping back instead of a flat trunk. It looks more stylish and sporty than regular sedans.

Car

Kia EV3

The Kia EV3 is a new electric car that Kia is planning to release. It's important because it will help people drive without using gas, which is better for the environment.

Car

Kia Sportage

The Kia Sportage is a small SUV that is good for families because it has a lot of space and is affordable. It's known for being safe and comfortable to drive.

Brand

Nissan

Nissan is a car company from Japan that makes many types of cars, including affordable ones and sports cars.

Car

Kia EV6

The Kia EV6 is a new electric car from Kia that looks really cool and has a lot of modern features. It's part of their lineup of electric vehicles, which are becoming more popular.

Car

Mazda 6E

The Mazda 6E is a version of the Mazda 6 that runs on electricity instead of gasoline. Unfortunately, it hasn't been sold in the United States.

Car

Mazda 6

The Mazda 6 is a car that is designed to be fun to drive and looks good. It's known for being dependable and getting good gas mileage.

Car

Mazda Mx30

The Mazda MX-30 is an electric car made by Mazda. It's a small SUV that looks good and is designed to be friendly to the environment, making it a good choice for city driving.

Term

horsepower

Horsepower tells you how powerful an engine is. The higher the horsepower, the faster and stronger the car can be.

Car

Tesla Model 3

The Tesla Model 3 is a popular electric car that is known for being fast and having a long battery life. It's a more affordable option compared to other Tesla models.

Term

0-60 time

0-60 time tells you how fast a car can go from a stop to 60 miles per hour. It's a way to see how quickly a car can speed up.

Car

Mazda Cx9

The Mazda CX-9 is a bigger SUV that can fit a lot of people and is great for families. It looks nice and is fun to drive, which makes it a good choice for those needing more space.

Car

Mazda 3

Mazda is a car company that makes fun-to-drive cars with a focus on good design and fuel efficiency. They are known for creating vehicles that feel sporty and enjoyable to drive.

Car

Cadillac Escalade

The Cadillac Escalade is a big, fancy SUV that has a lot of room and nice features. It's often seen as a symbol of luxury and is popular with people who want a comfortable ride.

Car

Chevrolet Corvette

The Chevrolet Corvette is a famous sports car made by Chevrolet. It's known for being fast and stylish, and it's been around for many years.

Car

Toyota Tacoma

The Toyota Tacoma is a tough truck that can handle rough terrain and is great for work or adventure. People are talking about how it might use a new kind of clean energy in the future.

Car

Nissan Leaf

The Nissan Leaf is a fully electric car that doesn't use gasoline. The 2026 version can travel up to 259 miles on a full charge, which is great for everyday driving.

LIVE

This is the What Car? EV? podcast for Thursday, November 6th, 2025, episode 247.

Look at our shorts.

What's up?

Hey.

Solid start. Solid start.

Solid start.

So, it seems like our short strategy is paying off, at least.

I don't know.

We're getting some feedback from people watching our shorts, so that's good.

We're talking about vertical video content, not the strategy of us wearing shorts and

people making comments about our shorts, which FYI, I am wearing shorts.

Now, if you go to youtube.com.

slash at the What Car, you won't be able to see me wearing shorts because I sit down

for this, and that would be weird if you could see my shorts.

But, you can see us record this podcast and how amazing it is.

I don't know.

Whatever.

I'm Phil Royal.

I am one of the co-hosts here at this podcast that we've been doing for nine on half

a decade.

Hard to believe.

And we're concentrating on shorts now.

At Sanchez, yes.

Phil's partner in crime on podcasts and various other ventures.

In the automotive biz, some former another for Nye on two plus decades.

I'll leave it at that.

And imparting our illustrious wisdom to you weekly.

I was, I just had lunch at somebody's house with, actually, I had lunch.

This is complete.

Nothing to do with anything.

So fast forward.

If you're not interested.

I just had lunch at somebody's house.

I'd never met her before, but she ran the PR agency that led the Toyota

Grand Prix, the celebrity race for Toyota for it was like 32 of the 34 years that

they did that.

So I just had, I just met her.

Just had lunch at our house.

And she asked me, you know, go through your career.

What's tell me what you've done.

Who are you?

And so I did my little pitch.

And while I've been doing this for, as you said, like two decades.

Man, I can sum it up in about 30 seconds.

It's kind of depressing.

It's a lot of automotive stuff.

But when you actually break it down is like, yeah, and then I did, I did this.

And five years later, I did this.

And then 15 years later.

Kind of variations of the same thing.

Yeah.

And then, you know, five, four years ago, we started this podcast.

And here I am.

There you are.

Doing shorts.

Concentrate having conversations about shorts.

Doing shorts.

Is it my turn to talk about shorts?

Yeah.

You talk about what you want to do now.

So we're getting, we're getting quite a few viewers on shorts.

Yay.

Thank you.

I appreciate your, your patronage and your short attention span.

Short attention span.

Working in our favor.

So, but if you're enjoying this and you're a subscriber, we are getting new subscribers.

We do have a full length podcast.

If what you see in the shorts intrigues you, those are snippets from our longer form.

Usually 30 to 45 minute podcasts.

So those are available in your favorite podcast player.

Apple podcasts.

YouTube music, I guess is the thing now.

Spotify, we're there.

Did you just record a shorts promo for the podcast in the podcast?

I did.

Is this like a turducken of podcasts?

If it's a shorts within a, it's a, it's a podcast.

It's a short within a podcast, within a short.

Short.

There you go.

Very, very meta.

Not, not Zuckerberg.

You're blowing my mind.

This is like conception.

This is anyway.

So get back to shorts.

So we've gotten some interesting comments.

We got some very encouraging ones.

We've gotten some, some ones that are, I don't know.

They're just kind of trolling a little bit.

No.

You're like, oh, you're full of it.

So.

And I hate to tell you with these shorts, you're only going to get a snippet of the information.

So yes, it might seem that we are full of it.

It might seem like we're not arguing the complete or seeing the complete picture or arguing

both sides.

Because in about 30 seconds, you don't have time to show the complete story.

30 seconds to a minute and a half.

So, but one comment actually caused me to stop and go back and kind of kind of do a little

bit of a deeper dive on something.

And I was like, oh, that's interesting.

So in one of the shorts, I said that the US is a net energy importer.

So for most of the US's history, that was true.

But since November of 2018, that has not been the case.

Since then, we have been a net energy exporter.

So it started late 2018, 2019 kind of started the trend.

And basically, since then, we've been a net energy exporter.

So now is this got to do with less usage in America?

Or has this got to do with more production, predominantly more production?

However, now that you mention it, gasoline consumption has gone down.

I forget the year, but we hit peak oil.

It has decreased.

Peak oil or peak consumption?

I think it was peak oil, wasn't it?

It's like the world in general hit.

Globally, yes.

But the US, I mean, since around 2010 plus is just in terms of production.

So globally, peak oils probably come down, but US is like a super producer now.

But I want to say like peak gasoline usage peak.

I'm going to have to go back and look at the exact numbers.

I want to say like in the early 2000s, I want to say like 2004, 2008 gasoline usage peak.

And at that point, it's just, I mean, it hasn't dropped off a cliff, but it's kind of steadily gone downward.

Most people attribute that to better fuel economy.

I was about to say, saying so.

It's a cafe standard.

Exactly.

So I mean, we'll see.

I mean, you know, now that Trump is basically...

Man, I crack myself up so much in this podcast.

Nobody else finds it funny but me.

But basically, you know, Trump has effectively gutted the cafe penalties.

So we'll see how much of a difference that makes.

And if people start buying gas casters again, I don't know if that's necessarily going to happen.

I think the trend is kind of set.

And I think, you know, regardless of your political affiliation, unless you're so rich, you don't care.

You're just like, you know, you're going to drive a truck no matter what.

I think most people like spending less on gas.

It's a very controversial statement you've made.

Most people prefer spending less on gas.

Yeah.

So anyway, so yeah, so I stand corrected.

We always appreciate the comments.

You know, if they challenge or disagree, just don't be a jerk about it.

But, you know, people will be.

It's the ender that.

Yes.

So a car that...

I don't know.

I mean, when I usually hear this name, I would say most people think it's just kind

of a humdrum transportation.

Nothing particularly exciting, although there have been exciting iterations of this car over the years.

Like the one I drove for years.

So what do you...

What's the first thing that comes to mind when I say Corolla?

My commuter car that I put 300 and like 18,000 miles on.

Glorious miles.

Solid reliable transportation.

Yeah.

It is...

It's a sensible little commuter car.

That's what it's always been.

I did drive the Corolla S.

I don't remember what year.

20.

Have you had a chance to drive the GR?

No.

But I did drive the S and manual for like a year and I went and did track days in it.

It was great, but it was never fast.

Now GRK.

Yeah.

Different beast.

Anyway, so I guess at the Tokyo Auto Show, Toyota pulled the sheet off their...

What they're claiming is the next generation Corolla.

Now, a little pretty edgy looking, I think.

They claim this is pretty representative of what might be coming to market in two years.

Looks wise?

Yeah, pretty much, yeah.

Wow.

Link in the show notes.

Yeah.

There's an article to Insight EVs.

The show is...

Or the show.

The car looks great.

Yeah.

It's not...

I mean, it's like, wow, that's not what I expect for a Corolla.

Yeah.

I'm a little confused by the cut on the...

Cut of the jib of the front windows.

Front window?

Because it kind of drops way down.

Like a Ford pickup.

Yeah, because it kind of cuts down.

Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know if that'll necessarily make production as is.

This thing's sharp.

I mean, more visibility is never a bad thing in my mind.

Why are we talking about this?

Because this is going to...

Toyota is kind of following BMW and kind of all of the above powertrain strategy.

So they're going to offer this internal combustion hybrid and EV, although not fuel cell that they've

announced, but we'll get to more of that later.

We can hope.

So, I don't know.

Yeah.

I mean, but I mean, basically everyone's like, oh my gosh, this thing is so cool.

So...

It looks amazing.

Yeah.

I actually love it.

To me, the exterior looks more production feasible than the interior to me.

The interior is a little more concept-y.

Yeah.

To a degree, I mean, as long as they keep what has now become traditional gauge cluster for

Toyota where you can't actually see the cluster behind the steering wheel, then...

That's our new tradition.

Yeah.

As long as that's still there, then that's cool.

You know that this isn't production-ready at all.

The interior pictures show the gas and the brake are not...

They like go through the firewall.

They're not...

Those are not production-ready.

I did not notice that, but...

Yeah.

They're very futuristic-looking, but the gauges, everything...

I don't know.

It's all kind of doable.

We're seeing seats like those now.

Those are maybe a little on the high end, but I could totally see this.

Where I'm curious is, is it one chassis for everything?

So, gas, hybrid, and electric, it's a single chassis, and then they're shoe-horning

everything into one, or are they going to do multiple chassis?

So, you get a skateboard with the EV, and you get a semi-skateboard with the hybrid,

and then you get a non-skateboard, you get a tub with the gas.

I'm not an engineer, but my guess is they might have variations on the skateboard,

per se, that the same top, that a common top hat goes...

So, basically, the body, but the floor pan is different between the different models.

Which is fascinating to me.

You don't know if that's true.

That is how I would do a vehicle like this.

You take the top, and then you do three sections.

You do basically a battery, and then you've got one that's a half battery,

and then one that's just a tub, and that's your gas version,

and that's how you do these.

It's completely flipped versus how vehicles were done with like Ford and General Motors.

Back in the day, you would have the chassis would always remain the same,

and then they'd just drop a new top on it.

So, you'd have the Suburban and the Yukon,

where literally identical is just...

Well, even there, the body even looked the same.

But that's a bad example.

But you would have like a Ford and a Mercury, or whatever.

And the body would be different, but then the chassis would be absolutely identical.

The potential now is that it's flipping,

and that the cap stays the same,

and the underpinnings are what change.

We don't know that's the case, but that's how I would design this.

Ice and hybrid could have a fairly similar body pan, I guess, for lack of a better term.

And I seriously doubt ice would be ice only.

It would probably be hybrid plug-in.

Well, the trend with Toyota is they're going basically hybrid everything.

I think everybody's going hybrid everything.

The RAV is all hybrid now, the Camry's all hybrid now.

I mean, maybe in some emerging markets, they might offer like a diesel or something.

But I think for most developed Western markets, probably the US, probably most...

Well, Europe is still... I mean, diesels are kind of fading out,

but there's still a little bit of a market form.

But my guess would be for the US market would be probably be hybrid and EV.

Did they mention anywhere in this the front-wheel drive versus rear-wheel drive versus all-wheel drive?

I think it would be far-fetched if it was rear-wheel drive.

My guess would be front and all.

This could be a case where it is front-wheel drive for ice, all-wheel drive for plug-in hybrid,

and rear-wheel drive for the EV.

Rear-wheel drive for EV.

Well, I mean, that's one of the advantages of EVs is the motor is generally so compact.

It doesn't really matter where you put it.

You know, you do front-wheel drive, rear-wheel drive, whatever.

It's just kind of...

I don't... I mean, they could.

I don't see them offering a purely rear-drive.

I mean, I could see them doing all-wheel drive and like the Sienna and the RAV.

So the all-wheel drive RAV, the all-wheel drive hybrid RAV has...

There's no mechanical connection from the engine to the rear axle.

It's basically what they call an E-axle.

So probably for the Corolla, for all-wheel drive hybrid version, if they make that,

it would be a HSD, you know, hybrid synergy drive, front drive, and then a rear-electric motor.

That's how I see that playing out.

I would love to see this as a rear-wheel drive.

I'll tell you, I don't know if they'll admit to this.

I think they were inspired by the Kia K4

because that was kind of a metamorphosis of...

I think the immediate predecessor vehicle was Spectra, I think.

I want to say they changed...

Or maybe it was the Spectra of the Forte.

I can't remember what came first.

Anyway, it was their kind of compact Corolla-ish model.

And then they started renaming everything like K, whatever.

So K4, K5.

And the restyling that came with the K4 was like, whoa.

Yeah.

I mean, for that class, it was really pretty radical.

In fact, I saw one a couple of months ago on the road.

It was at night.

And the tail light signature on that is very eye-catching.

I don't know if you've been behind one at night.

But it's kind of got the ring light.

Mm-hmm.

And it's pretty big.

So it's very like...

At first, I was like, what?

I said, I think that's a K4.

But I had to come up closer and see it.

And then the side profile, it's...

I wouldn't say...

I don't know if I'd call it a beautiful design,

but it's a very avant-garde, kind of edgy eye-catching design.

And for the compact sedan class really stands out.

So I personally feel maybe they were inspired by the K4

and said, yeah, let's step up the edginess a notch.

Anyway.

We have no idea whether, if anything, with this.

Do we?

This was just something that they unveiled.

I mean, the belief is this preview is a 2027 model.

But how much of this will directly translate

to the production model?

I don't know.

But I think that's kind of showing the direction.

Of course, I mean...

So I'll give you a case in point.

I'll tell you what I was totally caught off guard by.

And I think I'll say 2022 is the Prius redesign.

Oh, yeah.

No, we both...

I came out of...

I was like, what?

Yeah, neither of us.

We went to the LA Auto Show.

Neither of us, I think, knew anything about it.

And we walked in to the room and we're like,

the heck is that?

And still to this day, there's a guy,

a couple of houses down for me that's got one.

And so when I go for a run, I pass it.

I look at that thing every single time.

Like, it is a sweet-looking car.

And this, I think, is right around those lines.

Like, this is amazing.

Now, it helps that the wheels on it are probably

like 20-inch wheels in this concept.

Yeah, I think the concept is 21.

So that's not...

I don't think that's production feasible for that class.

Yes.

But...

I mean, maybe I could see optional 19s.

Maybe.

Yeah.

But...

Yeah.

So the wheels are going to be downsized some.

But I don't think it's inconceivable that they could...

they could go this direction with the styling,

because case in point, when I saw the Prius redesign,

that was like, wow.

You know, that was not...

I was not expecting that.

Yeah.

No, Toyota got it...

Toyota got its groove back with some of its designs.

Yeah.

So we'll see.

I don't know.

I mean, it's...

Last time I got excited about a Corolla was the GR.

So...

I don't know.

This looks pretty cool.

So speaking of which, I mentioned the K4,

and now the new model that got a lot of buzz was the EV4.

Mm-hmm.

Which was basically the EV version of the K4, effectively.

So they showed two versions of it.

They showed kind of a cross-overy, kind of wagon-ish body,

and then a sedan, like a fastback sedan.

And the...

And they even showed it...

I don't know if it was New York or...

But they showed it in the U.S. with the implication that,

oh yeah, we're going to offer this in the U.S.

And now they're evidently kind of tapping the brakes on that,

saying, ah, maybe not.

Or like, they're not saying no, never.

They're saying not immediately.

So...

I wonder if this has anything to do with the ICE raid in Georgia.

But...

Oh, I've forgotten about that.

Yes.

Oh my gosh.

Like, that came and went, didn't it?

Wow.

Huh.

That's interesting.

I was looking at the pictures going, you know,

the EV4 is not a very attractive vehicle.

Maybe it's got something to do with some...

It's a choice.

It's a definite choice.

Yeah.

That I could see them going and having some...

What do they call them?

Groups.

Survey groups.

Groups.

You get a bunch of people in there.

Focus groups.

And them all saying, really?

I'm going to spend $40,000 on that.

No, thank you.

Well, I mean, if you're talking about the sedan,

I think probably that's not the dumbest move,

because sedans, you know,

so basically sell like weak old sushi anymore.

I thought the kind of crossover wagon version,

I thought that looked kind of cool.

But my thought is they're kind of shelving this

and they're going to focus,

I think probably on the EV3,

which is basically kind of effectively kind of like,

not the soul,

because I think that would be the EV2,

would be kind of the electric soul,

but why am I drawing a blank with this?

The Sportage, I guess,

if they're still calling it that.

So the EV3 would roughly kind of correspond

to like an EV version of the Sportage.

So my guess is that's going to be the next big model

in the US.

EV4, we may not see it,

maybe wait till next generation, who knows.

You don't think they listened to our podcast

from like two weeks ago,

and we're like, we're not hitting these specs

for the perfect EV for this price range.

We need to cancel that EV4,

and we need to dial it back and get a vehicle in

that's like around 28 to 30, no more than.

I don't feel,

Kia's really chasing the bottom of the market anymore.

I think they've kind of seeded that to,

I hate to kind of say this, but like Nissan,

I kind of feel like Nissan is kind of,

now they're kind of, they're turning around.

So I don't want to throw too much shade on them,

but I feel that in the last few years,

Nissan is kind of,

Perception's kind of been a budget brand,

whereas Kia keeps kind of moving upscale.

So I don't know, maybe Kia's like,

let Nissan have that.

Nissan worked hard to become a budget brand.

I don't know if you've heard the term online,

big ultimate energy.

I guess it's a thing, so.

So anyway, who knows when,

and if we'll see the EV4 in the US.

Kind of a bummer, cool looking car,

but they still got the EV6,

EV3 I think is pretty imminent.

So speaking of a vehicle,

we cannot get in the US,

and may or may not.

This was disappointing to me.

Being a Mazda fan.

Yeah, so,

I want Mazda to succeed,

and they have not really been

trying when it comes to EVs.

No.

But the closest thing that there was

was Mazda 6E,

that we could not get in America.

It's a Chinese built car,

isn't it?

It's basically a rebouch of a Chinese model.

Yeah.

And was not sold in America,

I don't know what countries it was sold in,

presumably China,

and elsewhere.

But it looks like Mazda 6,

sort of.

It's good looking, I mean.

And even though the specs,

the specs weren't great,

but Mazda always

like, they can do more with less.

Mazda's always been good at doing more

with less, and they tried to do,

they did less with less

with their EV that they brought to America.

The MX-30.

That didn't do well at all.

So this, I was like,

this vehicle, it looked great.

I mean, it still looks great.

At the back, you know,

whatever, but the front,

I don't know. So this review is not

shining of the car.

This is the Autopian.

And your

TLDR of the article,

which is why I didn't read it, was

meh.

Yeah.

What didn't they like? They didn't like

that it was 4,500 pounds and only

250 horsepower?

Well, among other things, yeah,

that it's not, he was like,

it doesn't really feel like a Mazda.

It's not.

Well, no, well, I mean, it's a Chang'an,

so it's what it is.

But yeah, it's overweight,

underpowered.

80 kilowatt-hour battery, so it's

under-battered. What you think?

I think it's okay.

Well, no.

This weighs 1,000 pounds more than your Model 3.

Well, almost, yeah.

About 800 pounds.

And 20 kilowatt-hour more,

less than 20 kilowatt-hour more battery.

I consider,

I mean, I've got the dinky,

I mean, I've seen some estimates

my battery is as small as 50 kilowatt-hours,

which is tiny.

I wouldn't admit that in public.

Anyway.

So,

I consider

basically anything over 70 to be

acceptable. So,

80 for this size

class, I think is okay. But

to your point, it's offset by being

4,500 pounds, which is what

a suburban weighed

20 years ago.

240 horsepower,

060, 7.8 seconds.

Yeah. I mean,

it's not a rolling roadblock, but

you know,

you can't say much more about that.

So yeah, I mean, I love this

style. I mean, I think this thing looks fantastic.

I love the styling.

It's a lift back, which I'm also a fan of.

my TLDR on this

is if they added about 60 horsepower

and dropped 400 pounds,

I'd be interested.

But as it is right now,

here, not really.

Do we know the estimated

price if this came to America?

Looking at the specs, I would

guess around 40-ish

as is.

I don't know if that's fair or bad.

Well, no, I mean,

to me, to me, this is simple.

If Mazda's listening

at 60 horsepower,

take out 400 pounds.

I think this is a surefire winner.

But these specs as is,

I'm just it's not really moving

the needle for me.

No.

it's disappointing that this wasn't

I don't know.

It's actually hard.

It's hard to tell because

we've gotten to the point with EVs where

if things aren't 0 to

60 in three seconds

and 350 mile range,

it's like, well, what good is this?

And it could be that this is just

a good commuter car.

Like a nice

high quality

yes, and I'll give you that, but I think

Mazda over the past, I'd say probably

probably

at least the past decade

has really tried to cultivate

this performance image,

especially in the U.S. market.

I think they've been doing performance

thing for a while. They went

a premium

they went premium

and I don't remember when that was

2010s, early 2010s,

somewhere around there. I think it kind

of started with the CX-9

is when they started kind of really

pushing pretty hard

in that direction, so whenever that came out.

And they changed the styling of the Mazda 3

to a higher, like the

Mazda 6 came out and then

that pushed the styling of the Mazda 3

and they went very

premium and you look at the pictures

of this, of the interior and I think it's

nice. The interior is beautiful, yeah.

Like this Alcantara

No, what was I going to say?

I wasn't going to say call it Alcantara.

I was going to call it

what was that? Yeah, that's correct.

No.

Corinthian leather.

I was going to call it

only the finest Corinthian leather

inside.

The trunk looks like everything looks fine.

I do like the lift back. The rear end is a little

weird to me, but I do like the lift back.

Everything about this

looks great.

Except the specs.

The specs. I wonder

the uninspired part of this

is the fact that

they claim zero to sixty in like nearly

eight seconds and that's just not what

you expect anymore from an EV.

Everybody gets into an EV and you expect

to have your neck snapped

and that doesn't need to be

the case. I'm not even asking for like

plaid levels of performance.

If this was zero to sixty in like

six flat,

to me that would be fine.

That's fine for me.

This is on the low end

of acceptable for acceleration.

Well, especially, I mean

I think it's styling

and you know, granted, I think that the average

speed in China is like twelve miles an hour,

so they don't really care about going fast

quite as much, but I think

for the U.S. market

for a vehicle to have this kind of styling,

I think the inference is

this is a sporty vehicle.

It's fun to drive.

That is kind of what

it's all about.

They've got a handsome

design.

To me of the Japanese brands,

I think Mazers are the best

looking cars.

And you expect the vehicle

to perform accordingly

to how good it looks

and how striking it is.

And this is a striking looking car

and it does look good.

To go back to the Corolla,

that might be the Achilles heel

is to me, I see that, and I think sports car

and it may turn out

to be a Corolla.

The Corolla may actually be a Corolla

and I'm thinking sports car.

And I wonder if the Mazda 6e

is kind of suffering the similar fate

of it's dug itself a grave

based on how

good it

looks

exterior and interior and how

Mazda's built this whole image

of higher end over the course

of the last decade, decade and a half.

And then you produce something

that still looks as good but has

the specs of a vehicle

of the early 2000s

and now you're like, ah, this is...

But I think

this would not be hard to fix.

As we've said many times

it's not hard to make

an EV fast, it's not hard to add more power.

It would not be that

hard to upgrade the motor

to 300 horsepower

or whatever. That literally might be all that's

required.

Now, taking the weight out

would be a little more of a challenge.

I'm not as convinced that weight matters

that much.

I'm a performance guy

that's like, everything is

about with my race car stripping the weight out

and getting it to the minimum weight

for the rules required and blah, blah, blah.

I get all that. But when you're talking about a commuter car

about the only downside

is you lose a little bit of range and you go through tires.

Like...

I mean, it doesn't upset me that much

but I just think taking about

four or five hundred pounds out of this

dynamically would do a lot

to improve the driving feel

just the dynamics, the nimbleness.

Yeah, it would definitely

it would definitely

take it

to give it the

Mazda feel.

I think it would be fine as a regular vehicle

of 4,500 pounds.

4,000 it starts to get into

how depressing is that? 4,000

it starts to get down to a driver's car.

Remember we used to think 4,000 pounds?

This thing is so heavy.

Realistically, this should be like 3,500 pounds

but it's never going to be there.

We're ways off from that.

4,000 would make it...

Model 3 performance is about 4,100.

In the world of EVs

it's considered relatively lightweight.

So...

So, fan but

it still needs a...

still needs a little more baking time.

But it's not coming to America so who cares?

Probably not.

So, shifting back

we're going back to Toyota.

So, maybe...

I wasn't entirely surprised

by the statement but I'm a little surprised

by how bold they are now

where they really don't care.

They're just saying it out loud

what they've thought forever.

So, that

Toyota's chief technology officer

I guess at the Tokyo Motor Show

said

he wants the company to make ice

quote, until the very end.

Into the world?

I guess.

There's the alien ship

that's coming in from

out of the solar system

like...

So, he said

this is a Hiroki Nakajima

in my personal opinion

I think Toyota Motor Corporation should be a company

that will be making engines until the very end.

So...

And he went on to say

You can take that as a positive or a negative.

So, another guy...

We're going to steer this right into the ground.

So, another guy

because the head of Toyota's powertrain division

Takashi Yuhara

said he like in high performance

CVs to trying to

enjoy fireworks on mute.

Seen but not heard or felt.

So, I guess these guys are like

really nostalgic for kind of like

the mechanical

sensation and the noise

and the

that whole experience.

It seems like they're really

I don't know if this is a generational thing

or what but they seem really hung up

on that. I don't know.

I think I can get on board

with what he said

and that it's high performance

CVs is like trying to enjoy fireworks on mute.

I get it. I understand it

for motorsports.

For daily

driving, I get it at all.

Now, a little bit

maybe, I do

get with my Yukon

with a 6-liter

I do get a little bit of enjoyment

out of the

listening to the V8.

It does sound really good when I fire it

out. When you drive along and you're like

off the traffic light, it sounds

really good. I really like the sound.

If I had

an electric

suburban or Yukon or

Escalade, which I could buy now

if I had a hundred and something thousand dollars

if I suddenly have one of those

and I did not hear that

I wouldn't miss it.

I really enjoy

it when it's there.

I would not miss it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that.

But I wouldn't miss it if it's gone.

What I got the vehicle

for was hauling the family.

Its added benefit

is I get

to feel like, oh, I've got

a 6-liter version of an LS motor

in this.

And it sounds like it

and it's got its roots in

performance world.

Driving a 3-row SUV

you dock, you don't park.

It originated with the Corvette.

And you can hear

the performance and you can hear that.

And it does

a bit of my mechanical brain

and my enthusiast is still there

and goes, I like this.

I do like it, but if it didn't have it

I wouldn't miss it.

It was missing that.

Motor sports, I

totally want to hear it.

I want to feel that, I want to hear it.

Well, it almost kind of seems like

they're framing in that context

of kind of more motor sports,

more enthusiast kind of stuff.

And I agree.

I think, I mean

I've never seen Formula E, but I mean

I could see how

at least, you know

that is dependent on driver skill

and all that. So I mean I could see how that could be

an exciting in its own way.

But there is something kind of visceral and exciting

about hearing, you know, the engine

roar and all that.

But again, that's

a very niche

application and

I kind of get it, but I mean kind of

I don't know.

I think motor sports will have

this is a whole other episode

and I'll drop this analogy here

and move on because I think

we've got a couple episodes in a few weeks that we need

to pre-record. So maybe this is one of the episodes.

But I kind of put

motor sports events and I'm a motor sports guy

I kind of put it up there

with like carnivals. You go to a carnival

and you want to hear

the music. You want to hear

the calls from the

the, you know, yeah

separate up and do all this

and you want to hear the mechanics of the

the

going for a specific experience.

And then it all works together

and I think motor sports is very much that

way and you take out the

noise from motor

sports and you lose

the spectacle

of it

and that is going to be

very difficult to replace

with EVs

but the idea of Toyota in general

sticking to ice

till the very

end because of

a niche of motor sports

is just ridiculous

like that's wild.

They have pretty deep pockets

so I mean they've got money for weird little

side projects so

I mean I could see them doing this but

you know I think to

really like

stick their flag in the ground so

you're gonna take it out of my cold dead hands

you know it's like well we'll see.

That's the bit I don't get. It's a tool for the job

the right tool for the right job and I think motor sports

the right tool is

combusting things

and the right tool for commuter

Corolla is

electrons

Call me crazy

Well I guess

there in their Toyota's

crystal ball future they're

envisioning the Tacoma as a fuel cell.

The right tool for the right job

let's not bring

the right tool for the right job apparently.

What's the point of this?

So for many years

both of us went to SEMA

Do you remember those days?

Oh I do. Dark

dark times.

No I'd like to go back at some

point. I could and every year I could

go and I choose not to.

So I guess they're showing

the SEMA. It's a

fuel cell concept so

with all those leftover Marais spare parts

I guess they shoved them into Tacoma

and

it's actually got a decent amount of power.

It says combine 547

horsepower from front and rear motors

and

probably the weirdest most interesting

thing is

an exhaust water recovery

system since the by-product

of fuel cells is water vapor

effectively.

So it says the system

captures and filters water produced by the

powertrain can be used

at the campsite for washing items

and showering.

They actually don't recommend drinking it.

I was about to tell a story

of when I went to a water treatment

plant in college

and

no so yes exactly

so we got to the end of the

door and they dumped the water

out from the water treatment plant

after we've just seen how they processed all the sewage

and they dump it out into the Brazos because that was in Texas

and the guy said

water that we're dumping out

down this sluice way into the Brazos

is cleaner than the water that is going

into in the Brazos and is clean enough

to drink this is like drinking water and one of the kids

said then drink some

and he wouldn't

so when you were telling me about

this water capture system

with a Tacoma

fuel cell I was waiting for you

to say it's clean enough to drink and for me to be

like well then drink some

and watch the exact go

no but

as long as they say showering

yeah because like when I go camping

I have my a 50 gallon

fresh water tank I never

drink from that and I

disinfect that thing all the time I probably could

drink out of it but I know

no way I will wash dishes and I will shower

it but I will not drink so okay

at least there's some sanity going on

with this fuel cell vehicle I like

this what gets me

I know that this

has got nothing to do with production I've

worked with Toyota I worked

with them for a long time

through not they do all sorts of

skunk works prototype so

through the department that will have made this

I worked with that specific department

for well over

a decade at one point doing special

projects and stuff and SEMA projects were one of them

and I know

that this has nothing to do with the production

arm of Toyota this is nothing to do with Toyota

Japan this has nothing to do

with any step in reality this

is some marketing

some PR person at Toyota

thought this would be a good

and they had a budget of an extra

two hundred fifty three hundred thousand dollars and so they had this

built and that is how this came

to be this is toy is not getting into hybrid

comas to go off for this isn't a

special edition to come a later well there actually is a hybrid

Tacoma well

not hybrid hydrogen fuel cell

so yeah

they're not this isn't going to be production

the all this stuff

but I still would be all for this if there were

more than sixty hydrogen

stations in America

and half of those

are probably out of commission and none of them

are probably in Las Vegas where SEMA is taking place

yeah maybe

maybe one and the whole state in Nevada

so I love the concept

of it yeah

but it's never gonna happen for many reasons

one is what I just said this has got nothing to do

with the production arm of

Toyota like Toyota Japan probably doesn't even know

this thing exists

but the concept

of hydrogen

is just

it almost now and I started this

when we started the walk car

however many years ago it was

you were kind of pro-hydrogen

I was definitely on the pro-hydrogen train

and now

I don't

think it's good for energy long distance

energy transport

is where I'm now at

I don't know if there's

any other realistic use

of this

although maybe

back to motorsports Toyota did do

an internal combustion hydrogen

race car

several years ago

it's kind of the worst of both worlds

so maybe in that case

I guess

what's the last thing we want to talk about

then we get out of here

so remember we talked about the leaf being

the quote perfect TV

or as close to

or as close to it as

they currently have

so Edmunds tested the

2026 leaf they

tested a platinum plus model which is I guess

the kind of their top of the line

so that has an official EPA

rating of 259 miles

and they were able to get

310 miles out of it

now there are some asterisks

with this

their EV range test

is a little different because a lot of other

blogs and outlets

they do like steady state 70 miles

per hour freeway driving

so Edmunds is more

of a combination it's like 60-40

60% city 40%

highway

average speed of 40 miles an hour

so probably

representative I mean

Edmunds is based in Southern California

and you know the Santa Monica

area you know Metro Los Angeles

so for that area

I think it's very representative of

what typical driving would

probably be

but you know if you're in

rural Kansas maybe not

you know what that number is

I need to Google map it

you know what that number is representative of

what?

their commute from Santa Monica

down to the Porsche

experience where they do

which they use as their test facility

oh and Carson I think

yeah that is exactly

that is literally their commute

60% city 40% highway driving

average speed of 40 miles an hour

that is literally their commute

from Santa Monica

yeah but that's not 310 miles

if you just did that loop that's what you'd be doing

oh maybe

it's funny that that's their test though

like I'd have to Google it but I'm pretty sure

that's

how they're getting the range test done

is just driving down back to their test track

at the Porsche Experience in Carson

yeah so I mean that's

pretty encouraging for the leaf though

that is overperforming

its range estimates especially considering

the first gen leaf like

underperformed and only got worse over time

I think mainly the shift

from an air cooled to a liquid cooled

battery I think that's probably

the biggest change that's

so but yeah good for

the leaf I mean I'm getting

more and more respect for it every day

the new one looks good seems to

hit the price points

I think we're pro leaf now

yeah

they're crawling themselves out of the bargain basement

the basement that they put themselves in

they're slowly

taking that full circle aren't you

in this podcast

that's it

I think yeah I mean

I had one other item but you're saying I don't want to

talk about that

we don't have to

I think that'll go with one of our future episodes

yeah we'll do that

okay everything we talked about show notes are

embedded into

the thing that you are listening or watching

youtube.com slash at the wat card

little at symbol

or you can go to the watcard.com there'll be a link there

there's show notes and all of the embedded things

everything that you've got

there are

I don't know what else is there

social media we're on social media

I don't know not really

yeah we don't really do much with social media

but you can tag us youtube shorts is where it's at

look at our shorts

that should be our new motto

yes

watcard.com slash advertise I don't know

that site's not that part of the

website I think we're going to revamp that

because now that

our

our numbers are changing

we'll have to revisit that

no that's boring that's inside baseball

that nobody else is interested in and probably

if you listen to any of the podcast you're not interested in

baseball either because you're a nerd that's into

EV's

you know I only just discovered the world series happened

yeah how about that

I found out the day before it ended

so I guess I don't need to worry about

missing that for a while

what's that

who actually ended up winning

the city that I live in

oh there you go okay

and I missed it missed it all I don't know

the more you know

apparently I know nothing

alright next week same of the same

I don't know got some special episodes

coming up

yes what's that what that's going to be

we'll see even we

don't know see y'all

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48:56

247: Looks at Our Shorts!

Ford

Mazda 6E

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