The Watt Car EV Podcast Jan 15, 2026

253: Catching the CES Bug

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Term

software defined vehicles

Software defined vehicles are cars that use software to manage many of their features, like driving and entertainment systems. This means they can be updated remotely, similar to how apps on your phone work.

Car

Mercedes CLA

The Mercedes CLA is a smaller, stylish car from Mercedes-Benz that offers luxury features and modern technology. It's designed for people who want a premium vehicle without going for a larger model.

Car

Bmw Ix3

The iX3 is an electric SUV from BMW that doesn't use gas, making it better for the environment. It's important because it shows how car companies are moving towards cleaner energy options.

Brand

Volvo

Volvo is a car company from Sweden that makes safe and reliable cars. They are known for their strong focus on keeping drivers and passengers safe.

Brand

Polestar

Polestar is a brand that makes electric cars and is part of the Volvo family. They are known for stylish and high-tech vehicles.

Brand

Lotus

Lotus is a British car company that makes lightweight sports cars. They focus on performance and how the car feels to drive.

Brand

Lynk & Co

Lynk & Co is a car brand that makes modern cars with lots of technology. They also have a different way of selling cars, like subscriptions instead of just buying them.

Term

plug-in hybrids

Plug-in hybrids are cars that can run on electricity and gasoline. You can charge them at home, and they can drive a little bit on just electricity before needing gas.

Company

Waymo

Waymo is a company that works on self-driving cars. They are trying to create cars that can drive themselves without a human driver.

Concept

Robotaxi

A Robotaxi is a self-driving car that you can use like a taxi. You order it through an app, and it takes you to your destination without a driver inside.

Car

Jaguar Ipace

The Jaguar I-Pace is an electric SUV made by Jaguar. It's known for being stylish and high-tech, and it's one of the first electric cars from the brand.

Car

Hyundai Ioniq

The Hyundai Ioniq 5 is a new electric car that looks different from traditional cars. It has a lot of tech features and can charge quickly, making it convenient for drivers.

Company

Geely

Geely is a car company from China that owns several other car brands. They are working on new types of vehicles, including self-driving cars.

Brand

BYD

BYD is another car company from China that focuses on making electric cars. They are also looking to sell their cars in the U.S.

Brand

Neo

Neo is a car company from China that makes electric cars, focusing on high-performance models and unique features like battery swapping.

Brand

X-Ping

X-Ping is a Chinese car company that makes electric vehicles and is trying to compete with other brands in the market.

Term

EV horsepower

EV horsepower is how we measure how powerful electric cars are. It helps us understand how fast and strong they can be, similar to regular cars that use gasoline.

Term

Lamborghini

Lamborghini is a famous brand that makes very fast and stylish sports cars. When people say something looks 'Lamborghini-ish', they mean it looks sleek and sporty, like a Lamborghini car.

Term

suicide door

A suicide door is a special kind of car door that opens backward instead of forward. This makes it easier to get in and out of the back seats, especially in tight parking spots.

Concept

EVs

EVs stand for electric vehicles, which are cars that run on electricity instead of gasoline. They are becoming popular because they can help reduce pollution and are often cheaper to operate.

Company

Great Wall Motors

Great Wall Motors is a car company from China that makes mostly trucks and SUVs. They are not as focused on electric cars as some other companies.

Term

eight-cylinder combustion engines

An eight-cylinder combustion engine is a type of engine that has eight cylinders. These engines are powerful and are often found in larger vehicles like trucks and some sports cars.

Term

hot V

A hot V is a type of engine layout where the exhaust pipes are positioned closer to the center of the engine. This helps the turbochargers get the exhaust gases faster, making the engine respond quicker.

Term

dual injection

Dual injection means the engine uses two ways to inject fuel, which helps it run better and use fuel more efficiently.

Car

Land Rover Range Rover

The Range Rover is a fancy SUV that can drive on tough terrains like mud and rocks while still being very comfortable inside. People talk about it because it's a symbol of luxury and adventure.

Term

flat eight

A flat eight engine is a type of engine where the cylinders are laid out flat on either side, which helps the car handle better and run smoother.

Car

Honda Goldwing

The Honda Goldwing is a well-known motorcycle designed for long trips. It's famous for being comfortable and luxurious, making it a favorite among touring riders.

Term

torque

Torque tells you how much force an engine can use to turn things, like the wheels of a car. More torque means better acceleration, especially from a stop.

Brand

Stellantis

Stellantis is a big car company that owns several brands like Jeep and Dodge. They make a variety of vehicles, including trucks and SUVs.

Car

Jeep Wrangler

The Jeep Wrangler is a tough vehicle made for off-roading and adventures. It's famous for its ability to go anywhere and has a unique look with doors and roofs that can come off.

Car

Jeep Gladiator

The Gladiator is a truck that looks like a Jeep, which means it can go off-road and carry stuff in the back. It's popular among people who like adventure and need a vehicle that can do both.

Car

Chrysler Pacifica

The Pacifica is a family van that has lots of room for kids and their stuff, plus it can save on gas with its hybrid version. It's often mentioned because it's practical and comfortable for family trips.

Car

Dodge Charger

The Charger is a big car that looks sporty and can go really fast. It's often talked about because it combines a cool design with the ability to fit families and still have fun driving.

Car

Jeep Wagoneer

The Wagoneer is a big SUV that can carry a lot of people and gear, and it can go off-road like a Jeep. It's talked about because it mixes luxury with adventure.

Car

Dodge Ram

The Ram is a big truck that can carry heavy loads and is great for work or off-roading. It's popular because it's tough and has a comfortable inside for long drives.

Car

Ford Mustang

The Mustang is a classic car that's famous for being fast and fun to drive. People love talking about it because it's a symbol of American car culture and has a lot of history.

LIVE

This is the WALK R.E.V. podcast for Thursday, January 15th, 2026, episode 253, catching

the CES bug.

I would say you're back, or back from the dead, but you are kind of dead.

Well, I'm back from Las Vegas, so.

And you brought a friend.

Yes, as is tradition.

The CES bug got you good, I guess.

Annual tradition.

Yeah.

So I'm going to try and edit out some of the sniffles and coughs.

But for listeners, in case some slip through.

There you have.

Yeah.

I'm Phil Royal, and I'm back as well.

I don't know.

I didn't go to CES like you did.

I just sat here in the safety of my own home and did not get sick.

Lucky you.

Yeah.

And I vaguely paid attention to CES, but the CES that I paid attention to was

very different from yours, because I knew that we'd be talking about the

automotive stuff, so I didn't pay attention to that.

I was paying attention to that.

You're all about like big screen TVs and home robots and stuff.

Home robots.

That's robots.

When can I get one in here to chase me?

That's what I want to know.

I want to make life really interesting.

Well, interestingly, there is a little bit of a tie-in to the automotive side,

but we'll get to that in a second.

Okay, well, let's get to it soon.

All right.

My turn.

Ed Sanchez, far too long in this business, far too many times getting sick after CES.

But here I am, bringing you the latest and greatest content and analysis of

events in the EV and automotive world.

I've been to CES a couple times, but not in the last 20 years.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

So a lot has changed since then.

I wouldn't know.

I haven't been for two decades, but it was fun when I went.

Well, I think why I found it fun is because I went to SEMA for so long,

and then to go to CES was kind of refreshing.

It was something different.

Well, same venue, but different vibe.

It is exactly the same, but completely different, all at the same time.

What was this year's like aside from once again spreading the CES flu?

Well, I'd say the big theme this year, and I mean, some could argue in years past it's

been this too, but I think this year it felt more real was the theme of software defined

vehicles.

And what made that seem more real is they actually had real production models that you

could legitimately say were software defined vehicles like there.

What does that mean?

We can get into that.

I'd say the two big headliners in terms of actual cars that were there that got a lot

of attention were the Mercedes CLA, and they collaborated with NVIDIA on their self-driving

system.

And then the other one was the BMW iX3, the Neue Class, their new architecture, and the

big tech partner with that was Qualcomm.

Anyway, so those were kind of the headliners in terms of cars.

But there were some other kind of interesting stuff that we'll get into.

Now might be a good time to do that.

Okay.

All right.

So I guess we'll just jump right into it.

So I found this one interesting, somewhat self-validating in that if you remember this, something I've

been saying for a while and people might say, oh, Ed's full of it, he doesn't know what

nobody's talking about.

But after this announcement...

Are you reading my diary?

You know, after this announcement, I was like, see, told you so.

But anyway, so Gile, we've talked about Gile a fair amount of times here in one form or

another because whether or not you know Gile, you probably know one of Gile's brands.

Among them Volvo, Lotus, Polestar, Zeke, they own all those.

So I guess Gile held a press conference and they said they plan to be in the U.S.

market in, quote, two to three years.

So...

Presumably with not like, they're not talking about the brands that are already here.

Presumably they're talking about like...

Some China market brands, yeah.

Yeah.

Like a Zeke.

So are we getting the Zeke or what is it, 001?

That's one I'd like to see if they bring any over.

So, well, there's some speculation around that.

So they have another interesting brand called Lincoln Co.

Not like Lincoln, but it's spelled Y-L-N-K-A-P-R-S-N-C-O.

So supposedly this is kind of their mobility division.

You know, remember when that was kind of buzzwordy a few years ago?

So like the early iteration of it was kind of a car share scheme.

A lot of them are plug-in hybrids.

So I don't know if they want to make this...

I don't know if you remember Zipcar from a few years ago.

Maybe they want to do something like that.

I don't know.

But it sounded like Zeke was another brand in consideration to bring to the U.S.

They do have a Robotaxi deal with Waymo,

which is the Google-owned, you know, autonomous ride, basically Robotaxi service.

So for a long time, Waymo was using the Jag, was the I-Pace,

which they discontinued, I want to say about a year and a half ago.

It seems like forever ago that they discontinued that.

Yeah, but you still see them a lot.

I guess they probably bought out the last of the production run,

just like all of them and, you know, they're using those Robotaxis.

It wouldn't be hard to do since nobody else was buying them.

They probably kept Jag in business.

There wasn't much competition when they went into the dealer to buy those ones.

Yeah.

So anyway, so this is going to be like one of actually several successor vehicles.

Another model they're going to use is a version of the Hyundai Ioniq 5.

But the this is the full, like, you know, no pedals, no wheels, no driver,

like these little pod car.

Anyway, so Geely's involved with that.

And another good thing to remember is Geely has already has a plan in the U.S.

Now it's a Volvo Polestar plant in South Carolina,

but presumably they could they could add another another vehicle to that line

for production, whether it's a Robotaxi or a Zika model or whatever.

So anyway, so that was kind of interesting.

I know every go ahead.

Well, was your impression with that?

And I know that you won't have like asked the question necessarily,

but generally was the impression that the when the Chinese cars are coming,

that they're going to be coming with U.S. based production like that?

Or are they going to take the tariff hit, make them in China?

And I mean, the reality is when you look at the price of a lot of Chinese based

EVs, Chinese made EVs and then you do the conversion to U.S. dollars,

they could take a huge tariff hit and still be decently competitive price.

Now whether or not people would buy them because now it's price competitive

with a brand you know, and you'd be buying something Chinese that you don't know.

So there's the question.

But I guess it really depends on how eager the companies are to get into the U.S. market.

I would say Geely is the best positioned because they already have a manufacturing footprint,

whereas like BYD, X-Ping, Neo, all that, if they wanted to circumvent the tariffs,

they would have to set up U.S. manufacturing somehow either by an existing plant

and like, you know, refurbish it or do a green field plant from scratch.

So I still think Geely will probably one of their brands, whatever it is,

will be first in the U.S.

I know BYD wants to come in, but you know, I think they might be like,

I think they'll probably come after Geely is my speculation.

I think a lot of, I mean, candidly, I think a lot of the companies are probably waiting

until after 2028 if you get my drift because they're expecting a policy change

specifically when it comes to trade.

So again, this just, just kind of my thoughts on it.

But anyway, so Chinese are still coming.

Foxconn could be in the catbird seat at this point because they're sitting on a plant in Lordstown.

That's right.

Yeah.

And I haven't heard, maybe I missed it, but I haven't heard tons of news of cars

lining up to be introduced out of there.

Yeah.

That's another, now it should be noted, you know, not that I wanted to get into geopolitical nuance,

but technically Foxconn is Taiwanese.

Well, yeah, but they are a manufacturing plant that has, that exists, that is open.

Foxconn is open for business as far as taking somebody's idea and producing it.

Like that's their business is not producing a Foxconn product, but producing say an iPhone

or whatever else that they basically contract manufacturer.

Yeah.

So, so they have this consortium they've put together called mobility and harmony, whatever

that means.

And they're like bone thugs, but more about mobility to go to a mid 90s reference for

you.

So they Foxconn actually does have a brand in Taiwan.

I actually called Fox Tron.

Oh, I remember this creative.

Yeah.

So that's an actual brand in Taiwan.

I don't know if they export many of them.

And I guess, I guess in May, I'm just reading this.

It looks like they did some sort of contract manufacturing deal with Mitsubishi in May.

So anyway, yeah.

So to your point, Foxconn might be another one to keep an eye on.

But I didn't, I didn't hear any particular news out of CES about them.

Yeah.

No, I'm not thinking necessarily of a Foxconn car.

I'm thinking of the Chinese getting around tariffs and Foxconn just happens to be sitting

there happily wanting to take people's money and they happen to own a manufacturing plant

in America.

I mean, they have it there and I'm, I'm sure they're open to any inquiries about, you

know, anyone that wants to get in the U.S. market.

We're like, Hey, well, I mean, kind of like Magna.

It's like, Hey, we'll take your business.

You know, anyway.

Yeah, and Foxconn will take your business too.

If you want to advertise on the podcast.

Exactly.

Which actually, you know what I forgot to mention earlier?

What?

That this podcast is brought to you by us.

So you can go to the walk car.com slash store and you can help support us.

And we have paraphernalia that you can buy Ed's wearing a hat right now, which I also

didn't mention youtube.com slash back in the car.

And you can go and you can see, no, what did I say?

Yeah, youtube.com slash at the walk car.

I got it right.

And then I missed a.

Yes.

If you're listening and not watching, if you want to watch us go there.

Okay.

Advertisement.

How sad.

Okay.

So I think we've talked about Jami, right?

Once or twice.

Chinese cell phone maker now making cars.

One of Jim Farley's favorites, the SC7.

I actually did see one there.

It was now.

Jami itself was an exhibiting.

It was this company called Caresoft.

So they're kind of somewhat similar to like Monerone associates and that they do like

reverse engineering and cost analysis and stuff, but they're based out of Michigan anyway,

but they had a Jami YU7 in their booth.

And I got to say pretty slick looking.

So anyway, but just to put that context, a lot of people a few years ago thought it

was kind of far-fetched that basically a cell phone manufacturer would get into cars

and they're one of the fastest growing brands in China right now for cars.

How would you, how would you feel like if like iRobot, you know, like what if Roomba,

the maker of Roomba said, okay, we're going to start making cars?

I'd be more excited if Dyson did and we all rode around on like a giant ball.

Well, I mean Dyson tried and kind of pulled the plug at the last minute.

Did they?

Oh, you've never heard about the Dyson car?

This sounds familiar.

That like Lord Dyson invested in a car.

This totally sounds familiar.

Yes.

Dyson did try to get into the car business and famously or infamously kind of backed out

at the last minute.

Anyway, so there's this Chinese home appliance company called Dream spelled D-R-E-A-M-E.

So dream with like an E on the end and they're best known in China for their robotic vacuums.

So they showed a car at CES.

This seems like there's like a EV horsepower we're going on in China, 1876 horsepower.

That seems like a lot.

It's good amount.

So what's interesting about is it looks kind of Lamborghini-ish like he's very kind of

wedgy sports car look, but it's actually a four door.

So it's kind of it's kind of noticed that.

Yeah.

Did you did you see the back seats in it?

I did not.

I actually full disclosure.

I did not actually see this in person because it was in a different hall than I was predominantly

covering.

I heard about it.

Link in the show notes.

So we a link to an article in there in this video and you can watch it and they kind of

do a walk around.

They spent a lot of time talking about like how women designed the car.

I don't remember exactly what they just spent a long time talking about something before

they actually got to like any kind of meat.

But they do open the doors, which are automated rear suicide door and front regular door.

And the rear seats are mounted.

You would think it was a space shuttle launch because this thing does have like a supercar

roofline.

You would think it was a rear engine car.

So they've had to tilt the rear seats back at like 30 or 40 degrees.

Oh, so you're like, you're like, yeah.

What was it like in the 90s when that was like a thing or the early 2000s?

I can't even remember.

Wait, you'd pin back in your seat and just like your hand on it.

Yeah.

That's what the rear seats, the passengers are doing in the back.

Interesting.

The car looks good though.

And with 1800 or fire, I missed it at 1800 or fire.

Yeah.

Probably the weirdest like what is they want to build it in Germany?

Huh.

So yeah, Chinese company, but they want to build it in Germany.

So I don't know whether this one comes to fruition or not.

Who knows?

I'm not familiar with their business strategy or their finances or anything, but clearly

there's a lot of interest in China from not traditionally automotive companies wanting

to build cars.

I kind of feel maybe this is a little bit of a copycat of Xiaomi because I think other

companies have looked at the success Xiaomi has had with cars and said, oh, we can do

that too.

So, you know, whether or not they succeed, I think it depends a lot on, you know, the

engineering prowess, company culture, you know, I don't know.

But yeah, so there you go.

You could have their vacuums.

I wonder if it like cleans the road as it's driving by.

Anyway, their vacuums.

So to say that it kind of looks like other vehicles and whatever their vacuums, their

robot vacuums all look like the Dyson or their cordless stick vacuums all look like

the shark or the Dyson, whatever.

Like, I mean, there's only so many ways to skin a vacuum, but they are not.

Oh, cool.

We got robotic pool cleaners.

Oh, it's like a tank.

All right.

Yeah.

Anyway, I'm getting distracted.

So moving on, we're staying on China for quite a while if you hadn't noticed.

But so the predominant narrative about Chinese automakers the last couple of years, I'd say

is about EVs and electrification.

So, you know, because most of the new cars come out of China or either I'd say full

EVs or E revs.

So this is actually a company we have talked about at some point, but it's been a while.

They've kind of been out of the headlines for a little bit.

You remember Great Wall Motors?

I mean, I don't remember anything about them, but I totally remember they exist.

Yeah.

So they predominantly do trucks and SUVs.

So they kind of they kind of buck the EV narrative and they showed two eight cylinders at CES,

eight cylinder combustion engines.

So one of them is a four liter twin turbo hot V.

You know what a hot V is where the exhaust is like inboard.

Okay.

And the intake is outboard.

So the theory behind that is it's a much shorter path for the exhaust gases to spin up the

the turbos.

Okay.

So it's less lag.

Anyway, it's not unheard of.

There's I think BMW, Mercedes, a lot of the newer turbocharged V8's have a similar design.

Anyway, but it's dual injected.

They're speculating at least 500 horsepower.

I don't think I don't know if they entered they announced a specific output, but they've

got this big SUV called a tank.

That's literally the name of the vehicle tank 800.

It's kind of, I know, kind of Range Rover II or kind of escalated like that type of class.

Okay.

So there's some speculation that this engine might go into that.

Anyway, but that's so that's kind of unusual, but that's not the weirdest thing.

I think the most unexpected thing is they showed a flat eight motorcycle at the show.

So we're all familiar with the Honda Goldwing, right?

It's kind of this iconic cruiser.

It's been around for I think since the mid 70s and it's, you know, successfully gotten

bigger and more plush and luxurious.

So just imagine like a Goldwing on steroids.

So this is a 2000 cc flat eight.

So the output figures are not like amazing.

It's rated at 154 horsepower and 140 pound feet of torque, which for a car is like,

you know, it's nothing spectacular.

Yeah.

But, you know, I mean, we're talking about a motorcycle.

So power to weight ratio is pretty good.

Even though this motorcycle is estimated to weigh about 1000 pounds.

So which for a bike is pretty heavy.

Anyway, so they said they're planning on bringing this to the U.S. as soon as 2027 potentially.

So why are they doing any reason they're doing?

I just assumed everything out of China now would be electric.

EV.

I mean, maybe maybe they're sensing an opportunity with the current administration and regulatory

environment.

They're like, Hey, if we're going to, if we're going to burn gas, let's burn it in the next

few years.

Yeah.

I don't know.

Yeah.

So great.

Well, they're still still burning gas.

I guess.

I know.

Cooking with gas, as they say.

Yeah.

What else?

Oh, so California, so famously, you know, there's been this kind of hold back and forth between

the feds under Trump and California.

So now we're done with CES.

That was it.

We're pretty much done with CES now.

We're seeing the CES that I have.

I mean, there's a lot of other stuff I could go into, but I kind of want to save that for

another episode.

Yeah.

So California is, I guess, for a while, California was so in the hole from a budgetary standpoint

that they said, you know, we can't afford to bring back state level incentives, but I guess

now they're proposing on bringing back since they disappeared at the federal level.

I don't remember the exact numbers, but there was a time where we were bringing in, I mean,

you and I were both in California, where they were bringing in tons of money, like.

Well, I remember, yeah, a couple of years ago, we had like, you know, multi-billion-dollar

surplus.

And then it went from that to negative, like no money at all.

Yeah.

And now it seems to have flipped the other way again, and it's raining cash.

Not for now.

I mean, it's kind of, it seems like it's kind of fast-laced between feast and famine.

Yeah.

But anyway, so the proposal that I'm hearing about, not huge, 200 million, I mean, don't

get me wrong, I'd like to have 200 million, but I mean, spread out.

I don't think they give it for one car purchase.

I don't know.

Yeah.

So much for my roommates in Evara, but anyway.

But, you know, realistically spread out over, you know, population of 40 million.

And I mean, I don't know what annual sales.

I just looked that up.

California, if I had to guess, I'd say like 2 million a year.

I don't know.

Let's see here.

AI says, California hits hitting records with about 200, no, 379,000.

2024 and exceeding 2.4 million cumulative sales by like 2025.

So under 400,000 a year.

You're talking specifically about EVs.

EVs, yeah.

EVs, okay.

Because this is only EV.

This is, they're looking to offset the rebate that the feds were giving.

Yeah.

So I guess, so back of the napkin math is, that would be like, what, 500 per car?

It requires a calculator.

And I have one.

And everybody is going to now yell at the thing going, this is so easy math.

200 million divided by what I say, say 400,000 because the number always increases.

Dang, Ed.

You're good.

500 bucks.

Yeah.

I mean, symbolically, I guess it's cool.

But I mean, to me, 500 bucks wouldn't be really enough to move the needle for me one way or

the other.

No.

You know.

And it won't, it won't actually be 500 bucks.

It might be upwards of a thousand, I would guess, because they're probably going to have

the same requirements, must be sub $80,000 and yada, yada, yada.

And it'll basically.

And if it's anything like the utility rebate I got for installing my home charging system,

it's not going to be like very well publicized and you have to like apply and you have to,

you know, do this application process and back and forth.

So potentially the number of applicants that get this will might even be lower than that.

So I mean, I don't know.

Yeah.

I don't know if that increases the amount that they'll get or if that lengthens the amount

of time that they'll have the rebate or whatever.

But yeah, say somewhere between $500 and $1,000 is what they'll be giving you.

Not 7500.

I mean, to me, I really wouldn't, this really wouldn't get my attention until it was at

least like $2,000.

I think two grand off would be like, okay, you know, that's, that's enough to factor

into a purchase consideration, but 500 bucks.

I just don't know.

Yeah.

No, it doesn't.

I mean, you're spending, what did we decide the, the cheapest EV that was worth getting

was a $30,000 leaf.

Yeah.

Or the bolt, but I mean, same difference.

They're about the same.

But there is 500 bucks on a $30,000 purchase.

Yeah.

I think you're right.

I don't think it makes a difference.

That said, it's better than a stick in the eye.

So, I mean, I'd still take it because it pays for a home EV charger.

Sure.

And I mean, maybe that's ultimately what this ends up being is like a charger credit thing.

I don't know.

Again, this is very tentative.

It's still in the proposal stage.

So, this isn't finalized or law yet.

This is still kind of in the what if stage.

So, we'll see if it actually comes fruition.

I imagine something like this would happen because a lot of this, pretty sure this will

be controversial.

Pretty sure Gavin Newsom is trying to set himself up to be a Democratic nominee for president

of the next election.

I know Ed, you look shocked.

But this is one of the things that one of the talking points that he'll want to have

is this president over here, didn't he claim drill, baby drill, but actually, I'm sure

the numbers won't line up with anything that was originally proposed.

And instead, I went in and I did this with these green credits and I used this and gave

out $200 million and we had whatever with the infrastructure that increased and the

number of jobs and how this paid itself back.

He'll have some numbers that then will be discounted on the other side.

But this sounds like a talking point during a debate to me.

Potentially.

And so, I imagine he is itching to sign something.

Yeah, but again, it depends on the budgetary situation.

I don't think it does.

I think he's setting himself up to be a Democratic nominee for the president of the next election.

Well, no, I mean, I'm talking about this specific program, but I mean, I don't know.

I think he'll push it through regardless.

I think it sounds like a talking point that he wants.

Yeah.

So, it doesn't matter.

He'll find the money somewhere or run us into the ground in the process, but this sounds

like a political talking point that he wants, so it will happen.

The only way I think it might not happen is if the state legislators are like, no, we're

just simply not going to give it money.

California already has the Democratic supermajority.

It would be hard, but it would, yeah.

Anyway, carry on.

Anyway, carrying on.

Yeah.

Okay.

So, speaking of a company that at least publicly kind of, whether they deserve this or not,

kind of has an anti-EV image, at least in the U.S., Stellantis.

So, we're talking about Ram, Jeep, Dodge, Hemmys, Hellcats, all that.

More, more, more.

More.

Merca.

Yeah.

So, I guess 2026, all the PHAV models are disappearing.

So, that would be...

What?

Yeah.

Yep.

But right now, Jeep only sells PHAVs in California.

Well, I mean, I guess not for much longer, I don't know.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

So, that is the Wrangler.

I don't even know if the Gladiator 4xE ever even officially came to market.

I think it was just like, oh, we're going to do this.

But I don't even know if they've made one of them, personally.

I know they announced they were planning on it, but...

So, I don't know.

The potentially stillborn Gladiator 4xE, not happening.

And the Pacifica Hybrid, which has been around for a few years, but I guess all those are

just for 2026.

So...

I don't pay much attention to minivans, but I also thought that that only came in after

I guess I'm wrong about that.

Well, it's...

No, they still have a regular one, but...

Yeah, they may.

I mean, they probably do.

Like I said, I don't pay any attention to minivans.

So, I'm assuming I'm being correct on that one.

Yeah.

So, but they said this doesn't impact future models, which interestingly enough...

In other words, IE, future models did not include PHAVs.

Yeah.

So, if we're going to get back down to hair splitting again, and we've talked about this

before, the difference between PHAVs and EREVs.

So, the EREVs are still on the table.

So, that would be the RAM charger and the Grand Wagon.

They're going to do a version of the Grand Wagon here with the EREV powertrain.

Nice.

So, those are still happening as far as I know.

There may be some others in the pipeline they haven't announced yet, but yeah.

I must have missed the Wagoneer EREV, but that has been my complaint for a long time.

I got a big family.

And so, when we do long trips, the last thing I want to do is stop, and I got three kids

in the car, and I've got to stop for 40 minutes to charge while the kids are just like whining

and complaining.

And unless that stop is at a park where they can go and run around, then it doesn't work

for me.

And if it is at a park, then they're going to run around and they're going to want to

be there for an hour and a half instead of 40 minutes to get the thing charged.

So, I need the longer range.

Like that stop does not work for me.

Yeah.

So, an EREV version of that solves the problem.

Yeah, but that may be a few years because I'm guessing the Grand Wagon EREV is going

to be close to 100 grand.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, I'm never going to buy it.

But, you know, I'm saying me as in...

Watery Winterfill.

Yeah.

So, if one liked me, but with money.

But with money.

So, anyway, there's that.

So, and then here comes another plot twist, too.

So, we've talked a little bit.

We've never had him on the show.

I think it would be an interesting interview if you'd ever agree to come on.

Tim Kaniscus.

So, this is that.

That's the name synonymous with like SRT, Hellcat, Brotherhood of Muscle.

He's kind of considered the godfather of that whole, like, the whole, like, dodge performance

movement, I'd say probably over the last 10, 15 years.

So, he was on, I guess, like a podcast or an interview with The Drive, and he said...

Shocker.

He said electrification is, quote, inevitable because it is better.

Yikes.

Yeah.

So...

I mean, this guy, arguably, you could say he's responsible for the fact that they're not

making the trans...

The Hellcat exists, yeah.

But the image that is making it difficult for them to get to electric vehicles.

So this guy is...

He helped cultivate that, yeah.

He built the image that is shooting them in the foot in the electric transformation.

Yeah.

And now he's saying, yeah, it's inevitable.

Yeah.

So, I don't know, I think this gets back to the whole short term...

Oh, how the turns of tables have turned.

Oh, how the turn tables or whatever.

How the turn tables.

You know, I think this gets back to the whole long term versus short term kind of strategy.

I think short term Stalantis just needs to reverse their sales slide and get profits

up because under Tavares, you know, Tavares kind of pushed the EV narrative really hard,

engine downsizing, killed the Hemi, which may be from his Eurocentric mindset made sense.

But I really think he was kind of tone deaf to the American market and he got a lot of

pushback from American dealers.

Certainly, you know, the Mopar enthusiast community hated him.

So I think short term Stalantis, Ram and Dodge just want to turn things around, you

know, get more sales.

But I think Kineskis is pragmatic enough to see, you know, a longer term.

They can't be making Hemi's forever.

That at some point, the tide's going to turn.

Now, their administration is going to be in power.

You know, the stricter cafe or environmental rules are going to come back into place.

He's like, we still have to be there.

But to your point, I mean, he's kind of ironic.

One of the figures credited with really building up this whole kind of mythology and just this

whole image of brotherhood and muscle, Hemi, you know, burnout, strifting, all that.

He's like, yeah, electricity is electrification is where it's at.

So he went further says electrification is fantastic.

And at some point, it will take over, you know, you're like, yeah, I do know.

I do know that's why I'm doing this podcast.

But he said, and this is kind of like a duh, but we were trying to push it faster than consumers

in the industry and the infrastructure was ready for, we will get there, he said.

So, I mean, it's hard to argue with that.

What he said, but at the same time, it's the dude who's saying it.

I don't know if that's good or bad that he's saying.

Well, like I said, I think I think Stalantis and specifically, you know, Dodge Ram and SRT

are kind of victims of their own success is they were so successful in building up that image.

So to try and pivot from that, they've kind of locked themselves into that.

They've locked themselves into the old hot rod tire smoking V8 nostalgia.

And now they're trying to slowly like with the hurricane, they're slowly trying to pivot out of that.

I can't remember which outlet it was, but but the new chargers are all wheel drive.

And I guess they did a drag race between Charger Mustang Dark Horse and I think a Hellcat.

And the hurricane chargers smoked all of them, mainly because of traction.

I mean, on paper, it's less powerful than the Hellcat, obviously, but it's got the advantage of all wheel drive.

And they say that thing just launched and just took off.

So and I'm see, you know, I'm hearing more and more, you know, people in the Moopark community kind of kind of give some some recognition to the hurricane.

Like, yeah, this is solid platform.

I mean, some people have kind of framed it as kind of like the revival of the two to Jay-Z.

I was just going to say, they were a Japanese company.

People would be like singing from the rooftops.

Yeah, because, you know, it's hard to hard to dismiss the similarities.

Three liter straight six actually quite a bit more powerful than the factory to Jay-Z, which I think was like 320 horse.

I want to say 276 wasn't everything 276.

Well, in Japan, but the one they sent to the states officially was 320 horse.

Okay.

So the standard standard spec hurricane is 420.

The high output is 540 to 550.

Just happens to be 420 horsepower.

And this plays into the image that they've built.

Well, and I've heard some tuners that have, you know, been able to play with them a little bit are getting close to a thousand horse, which again, sounds a lot like the two Jay-Z.

Because I remember a lot of super guys were getting six, seven, eight hundred thousand horsepower.

Yeah.

So, so they're true.

I think the hurricane still has a chance to kind of kind of get acceptance in that community, but it's hard.

It's hard, you know, we need the good old boys off the hemmy, you know, nostalgia, but how funny is this going to be?

By the time that Stalantis like moves everybody over and they get accepting of not driving a V8.

And they're just getting into this.

Wow, look at how much power we can get from this engine.

And, you know, they're all starting to take off on this that then they're going to switch to full EV.

Yeah, they're then going to transfer it.

And people are going to be like, you're not taking my straight six away.

Well, I mean, that's the thing.

And I mean, I don't I don't know what the tuning scene is going to look like in the Aero VVs.

I mean, I mean, it could be.

I mean, some of the design, like some of these motors are basically kind of detuned.

The electric motors are detuned from their maximum power output.

So, you know, maximum theoretical power output on one might be like 500 horsepower.

But like as installed in the car, they like dial it back to like 350 for like longevity and safety and whatever.

But if you really want to push the envelope, you could you could crank it up to 500.

So I don't know if it's going to be like kind of like I'm trying to think of the little standalone engine control.

Was it Motec or something?

I mean, there are.

What I'm talking about.

Yeah, there are Motec's where you'd install a standalone engine management system.

So if it's going to be kind of like that, where you have like the equivalent of like a Motec on an electric motor that will allow you to kind of basically override the factory settings and.

I mean, AEM has basically got that.

And I think effectively.

Cascadia motion or whoever.

There's companies that already have controllers.

Is it?

Yeah, I mean, you even said yourself with the with the test hang that there were like multiple settings.

Yeah.

And you said on the top setting was almost uncontrollable.

Oh, yeah.

So it was that was AEM's electric Mustang with a Tesla motor in the back.

And then it was like hybrid minivan batteries throughout the chassis.

It was very well balanced.

I went and autocrossed it and they they had three settings on it had like a granny mode.

They had a like a regular mode.

And then they had the I mean the granny road.

I don't think was.

I think it was like street mode, like faster than street mode.

And then that's like unleashed or whatever it was.

Yeah.

And as soon as you got to the fast one on the track, I'm sure it would have been great.

But on an autocross course.

It was too much.

It was way too much.

I didn't have the time to figure it out.

And so you just kind of smoke the tires and the weight balance was so good on it that

I don't think there was enough weight in the back to get the traction to the tires.

So, yeah, I didn't like the most powerful setting, but it is exactly that.

It was a switch of a button.

And I think you had to be it.

I think you had to put it in park and then you could change the setting.

I don't think you do it on the fly.

I could be wrong.

Yeah.

So, I mean, I would say if Mopar and Stellantis are, if they're still owned by Stellantis,

who knows who they'll be by then.

But if they're smart about kind of evolving their image, they'll look at kind of maybe

working conjunction with the AEM potentially or, you know, doing their own thing of having

that tuning potential.

Because I think I do think the performance market, I mean, you're already seeing a little

bit.

They're still, they're kind of dabbling in EVs a little bit, but they haven't like full

on like dived in and said, okay, we're all in on this.

They're like, oh, it's kind of interesting, cool, and we want to kind of play with it

a little bit.

But when that time comes, I think that adjustability and that customizability is, you know, what

the aftermarket's going to want.

So, anyway.

Yeah.

And the Mopar group are like, like with the Hellcat.

I don't know if the regular, the regular challenges and chargers do it, but with the Hellcat, you

had the red key.

So you could do like 500 horse or you could do 700 slash 800 horse, whichever one you

got.

And so that idea is already there.

People already welcome that idea that that is already a fun thing for the vehicle.

So for them to sell like a Mopar button that you put in your car and all of a sudden it

adds 150 horsepower and it costs you, I mean, bang for the buck.

People are going to be like, whoa, you know, I used to pay thousands for the cams and then

thousands more for the installation.

And they offer this for like 400 bucks or whatever.

Yeah.

And it's like 200 horsepower and you just add it and it doesn't wear out anything.

They just say like, okay, well, you can't, maybe you can't do like a five mile run with

it because you'll overeat the batteries, whatever it is that, you know, you only get a minute

or something at that between the break, whatever, whatever.

I think that, yes.

Okay.

So, yeah.

Sure.

They stand a chance.

So Canis gets longer term.

He's still bullish on EVs, but you know, he, you know, and a lot of people would say, again,

it's kind of a observation that the rest of the market is not quite there yet.

So how fast we get there?

Who knows.

Yeah.

He's just got a lot of walking back to do.

Yeah.

Fast things.

Well, his immediate job is to sell cars.

So, you know, if that means stuff and him, he's under, you know, anything and everything

and that's what he's going to do.

And he'll be able to blame infrastructure for a long time.

Yeah.

It's still a work in progress.

We've been blaming infrastructure for the entire time we've been doing this blog and

podcast.

And it's still, still a thing.

Do you want to go and lay down and collapse?

Yeah.

That actually sounds pretty appealing right now.

So go to youtube.com slash at the walk car and rewatch the whole episode.

Now that you've listened to it, watch it and you'll see why the audio version is better.

We're on social media and I don't particularly want you to like us on social media, but you

can share any of the content on social media.

That's always great.

So share the YouTube link or go to the walker.com and share the link, whatever.

I don't know.

What else do I say?

Links are available in the show notes.

Normally I say that first and now I'm saying it last.

Oh, no.

Last at this time, I'm going to go back to my t-shirt sales pitch.

Worker.com slash store.

Is that correct?

Store?

Yeah.

I don't know.

The walker.com slash store.

We sold an EVAF shirt in this last week.

I don't think we sold one of those in a while and yeah.

So somebody is walking around now in an EVAF shirt.

I recommend all of you walk around in EVAF shirts.

There you go.

I'm just waiting to see one on the evening news.

Hopefully it's not too embarrassing.

Bye.

Yeah.

Who knows?

Yeah.

More coming the weeks ahead, but stay tuned.

Thank you.

0:00

46:00

253: Catching the CES Bug

software defined vehicles

Mercedes CLA

Bmw Ix3

Volvo

Polestar

Lotus

Lynk & Co

plug-in hybrids

Waymo

Robotaxi

Jaguar Ipace

Hyundai Ioniq

Geely

BYD

Neo

X-Ping

EV horsepower

Lamborghini

suicide door

EVs

Great Wall Motors

eight-cylinder combustion engines

hot V

dual injection

Land Rover Range Rover

flat eight

Honda Goldwing

torque

Stellantis

Jeep Wrangler

Jeep Gladiator

Chrysler Pacifica

Dodge Charger

Jeep Wagoneer

Dodge Ram

Ford Mustang

About this episode

Original notes