The Watt Car EV Podcast Mar 5, 2026

260: That's RAD

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48:13

Car

Toyota Corolla

The Toyota Corolla is a small, easy-to-drive car that many people use every day because it doesn’t break down often and doesn’t cost a lot to keep running.

Concept

EV demand

EV demand means how many people want to buy electric cars. This can change if gas prices go up or down.

Term

gas guzzler

A gas guzzler is a car or truck that uses a lot of gas and is not very fuel efficient. It costs more to fill up and is not good for saving money on fuel.

Car

Honda Accord

The Honda Accord is a common car that many people buy because it is reliable and doesn't use too much gas. People often choose it when they want a smaller, easier-to-drive car.

Car

Honda Civic

The Honda Civic is a small car that many people like because it saves gas and is not expensive. It is good for everyday driving.

Car

Toyota Prius

The Toyota Prius is a car that uses both gas and electricity to save fuel. It became very popular because it helps people use less gas and pollute less.

Car

GMC Hummer

The Hummer is a big truck that uses a lot of gas. When gas prices go up, people often stop buying big trucks like the Hummer.

Concept

EVs

EVs are cars that run on electricity instead of gas. You charge them by plugging them in, and they don't use gasoline like regular cars.

Term

EV

An EV is a car that runs on electricity instead of gas or diesel. It uses batteries to power electric motors that make the car move.

Car

Renault Modus

The Renault Modus is a small car that’s good for city driving and carrying things inside. It’s not very well known everywhere but is useful for everyday trips.

Brand

B.Y.D.

B.Y.D. is a big car company from China that makes electric cars that can go far on one charge.

Term

CLTC

CLTC is a way to test how far electric cars can go, but it usually shows a longer distance than real life.

Term

150 kilowatt hours battery

The battery in this car can store a lot of energy, which helps it drive very far before needing to recharge, but it also makes the car heavier.

Term

driving range

Driving range means how far an electric car can go before it needs to be charged again.

Brand

GM

GM is a big car company from America that makes many types of cars, including electric ones with big batteries so they can drive farther.

Car

Lucid Air

The Lucid Air Grand Touring is an electric car that can go a very long distance before needing to be charged again, more than 500 miles, which is a lot for electric cars.

Term

powertrain

The powertrain is all the parts in a car that make it move, like the engine and wheels.

Car

Denza Z9

The Denza Z9 is a type of electric car made by a company called Denza. It's designed to be modern and stylish, and it runs on electricity instead of gasoline.

Term

kidney grill

The kidney grill is the front part of a BMW car that looks like two side-by-side openings. It helps the car look unique and sometimes lets air into the engine to keep it cool.

Car

Hyundai Genesis

The Hyundai Genesis is a fancy car made by Hyundai that feels more expensive than it costs. It helped Hyundai become known for making nicer, more comfortable cars.

Brand

VinFast

VinFast is a car company from Vietnam trying to sell cars in the U.S., but it's having a hard time getting popular here.

Brand

Rivian

Rivian is a company that makes electric cars and trucks designed for outdoor activities and adventures.

Car

Jeep Wrangler

The Jeep Wrangler is a tough, adventure-ready car that can drive on rough roads and trails. Some versions come with a strong engine called the Hemi, which makes it faster and more powerful.

Car

Wrangler Rubicon

The Wrangler is a strong and tough Jeep that you can take off-road and even remove parts like the doors and roof to enjoy the outdoors. Some versions have very powerful engines that cost more money.

Concept

franchise dealers

Franchise dealers are regular car dealerships that have permission to sell certain car brands.

Brand

Volkswagen

Volkswagen is a big car company from Germany that makes many popular cars. They are trying new ways to sell cars directly to buyers.

Car

Tesla Semi

The Tesla Semi is a big electric truck made by Tesla to carry heavy loads without using gas.

Car

Dodge Charger

The Dodge Charger is a big, fast car that looks sporty and can go really fast. It’s popular with people who want a car that’s fun to drive but still works for daily use.

Car

Ford F-150 Lightning

The Ford F-150 Lightning is a big truck that runs on electricity instead of gas. It can save money on fuel and is good for people who need a strong truck but want to be more eco-friendly.

Car

Tesla Model Y

The Tesla Model Y is a small electric SUV, like a bigger car with more space inside. It uses electricity instead of gas and can drive a long way on a charge.

Car

Tesla Model S

The Tesla Model S is a fancy electric car that can go very far on a single charge and is fast. It was one of the first popular electric cars made by Tesla.

Car

Nissan Leaf

The Nissan Leaf is an electric car that runs on batteries and is easy to drive. It was one of the first electric cars many people could buy.

Car

Hyundai Ioniq

The Hyundai Ioniq 6 is a new electric car that looks cool and uses batteries to drive instead of gas. It's made to be efficient and modern.

LIVE

This is the What Car Eevee Podcast for Thursday, March 5th, 2026, Episode 260, That's Rad!

Started any wars recently?

Me personally?

Yes.

No.

But we may talk about it.

We may talk a little bit about that.

And we say every week we're not going to be political, and I don't actually think we're

going to be political on this.

I mean, the fact that there is a war or military action that has started is just a fact.

It's more general commentary with the peripheral connection to Eevees, which we'll get into.

Right after we introduce ourselves, and I'm Phil Royal.

Phil, I'm wearing some What Car apparel, and I think Ed might be as well in his hat.

It's winter.

I've got on a hoodie.

I'm also a hoodlum.

Isn't it just hoodlums?

What is it?

Utes.

And yeah, go to the whatcar.com slash store.

You could buy something for yourself and look like a hoodlum if you so choose.

Or we have other things there.

Or be sassy, the EVAF.

That is a popular one.

I do like that one.

I also say stop listening to this podcast.

Stop it.

And go to youtube.com slash at the whatcar and watch this podcast.

Or you can listen to it.

I don't really care.

I mean, as long as we get the listen method.

Or if you got ADD, watch the shorts.

There is the shorts.

Go to YouTube.

I don't know if we've put them anywhere else.

We should.

But we don't.

We're only two people.

What are you expecting?

Get off my back.

We'll have to give the production crew a raise.

Yes.

We'll double the salary.

Yes.

I've also been doing content creation in some way for a while and got bored of it, I guess.

I decided to do more.

I don't really know why I'm here.

Anyway, Ed Sanchez, likewise, many years in content creation, moderation, five years

as a podcaster, I guess.

Sweet.

That's the thing.

I mean, we're doing it.

Yeah.

And commentator on geopolitical events, maybe expected, unexpected, I guess, depending

on your perspective, but let's jump right into it.

Okay.

You say us going into Iran has affected oil prices.

What?

Who would have thought?

Let's not make that sound.

Yeah.

Thanks.

So what's happened?

I don't go out.

I'm in my own personal bunker of life, so I don't notice things going on around me.

Have prices gone up?

So strangely not, as of this recording, not at the pump by much.

Now, the price per barrel has gone up, but again, maybe not as much as some people expected,

but we're only, what, two or three days into this?

You're saying I need to go and fill up my cars right now?

That's what you're saying?

I might not be the worst idea.

I should go and fill up my truck.

So anyway, the price per barrel is currently, I don't know what it closed out today.

I want to say $73 or $74 a barrel.

And we do record this a couple of days before the podcast comes out, so your mileage may

vary.

As of this recording.

So that is close to a one-year high for a barrel, but in historic terms, it's not that

crazy.

So inflation adjusted, the all-time high was in 2008.

Adjusted for inflation, that was almost $200 a barrel.

Wow.

Yeah, so we got quite a ways to go until we hit that.

And then 2022 was another one that was almost that high.

I think in adjusted for inflation, I think that was like $160 or $170.

So we got quite a ways to go until then.

I have heard some outlets and some energy analysts say it could hit $100 a barrel, but

even at that point, that would still be less than half of the historic high.

So I do remember 2008 and how crazy it was in California here where we live.

I remember it, that was like the first time it went up over $3 a gallon.

And I went to fill up my Jeep and was like, oh my God, this is killing me.

I'm never filling up over $3 a gallon again.

And at that point, you started driving the Corolla to work.

And now, last I saw it was 439 at the gas station near me and I'm like, man, that's

a steal.

That's about, yeah.

Of course, you know, being the cheapskate, I am a good Costco for my wife's car.

My car, it's, you know, you go to the garage and would have a non at you, but yeah.

So I guess my, the comment I kind of wanted to make on this is whether or not this is

going to have any effect on EV demand or interest.

I think it's still a little early to tell, you know, if this is sustained and oil and

gas prices go up considerably, which I wouldn't, so far I wouldn't say the difference is considerable.

I mean, it's, it's measurable, but it's not, you know, like off the charts, but.

Every time this happens in the past, sales of big SUVs, big trucks, big gas guzzlers

decrease and the sale of smaller compact cars increased during those time periods.

During those time periods, we've never really have a 2022 being an exception.

We've never had good EVs that somebody could purchase.

We've, you've had your big gas guzzler and then you sell it and you get an Accord or

a Civic, something like that, maybe a high price.

I remember Prius sales were like really high in 2008, 2008, 2009.

Now we've got the option of EV, so where you say, what is this going to do for EV demand?

I, on one hand, I'm like, it doesn't really affect it because if people are scared of

EVs, they're scared of EVs, but we've always had that trend, price of gas goes up, something

happens and big, the Hummers are the ones that struggle and the entry level vehicles that

get good gas mileage are the ones that then sell.

The problem that we've got here is that now the EVs are not $15,000 like they were in 2008.

They are $45,000 or $40,000 or $35,000 if you're willing to go and get a leave for a

EV.

Yeah, it's, it's the same old story, but kind of a slightly different tune that's playing

this time because now we've got the EVs in there, but we've got the cost discrepancy.

We've got all of these things.

I don't know.

I'm just not planning to leave my bunker.

Well, I mean, I think the question is, is whether perception is going to drive behavior

and right?

It's not the data right now, at least in my mind is not like ringing the alarm bells.

It's worth, it's worth watching and it's worth kind of paying attention to.

But I'm just wondering if the war in general is going to get people to freak out about

gas prices, whether or not it's actually reflected in the pump or it's going to take gas prices

at the pump actually going up substantially to be a catalyst for, you know, behavioral

change or purchase habits.

You want me to make a political statement?

Go for it.

I don't know if you've noticed, but Trump is kind of erratic.

He will levy tariffs and then drop tariffs.

He will threaten somebody and then he's their friend the next day.

And I kind of wonder if the reason that we haven't seen everything hit the fan right

now is because of that erratic behavior and that it could be tomorrow that he goes, yeah,

we're no longer doing this.

Like we're no longer in our end.

We don't know.

There is a level of uncertainty that we've never had before with the president, at least

in modern memory for me, which is dating back, got him old, so I won't give a number.

But this this amount of uncertainty is kind of brand new.

And I kind of wonder if companies will look at this and go, oh, you know, I maybe the

oil companies, maybe we won't jack up these prices or something.

He just had a big White House meeting with all the oil industry execs about Venezuela.

So if they go and ramp up all the prices, that makes him look bad.

And so I kind of wonder if like there's a lot of these things that kind of work together

at this point and his erratic behavior on whether or not he sticks to something or I

mean sticks to that sounds negative.

He doesn't change his mind.

That's negative too.

It's the master plan is chaos and confusion.

And that that's his genius behind all of this.

And I think, yeah, my feeling is, is Trump's kind of modus operandi is this is maybe kind

of kind of putting a rose colored tent on it, but I'm trying to spin it.

Yeah.

I'm trying to spin it.

The term I would use is strategic ambiguity, whatever you want to make of that.

But, you know, maybe I will, maybe I won't.

I don't know.

But anyway, I'm sure we'll get hate mail from that impression.

But I mean, I don't know if it's.

Bafoonery or genius, like I just don't know.

Maybe a little of both.

So real quick before we move on, I'm sure we may talk about this in the future.

So more, but I think the key difference between 2008 and now is in the way the U.S.

was not yet an oil super producer.

That inflection point happened about 2012, where and ironically under the Obama

administration drill baby drill started to become a thing.

But now that the U.S.

is effectively super producer, plus the prospect of, you know, more output coming

out of Venezuela.

Now, granted, that's going to be kind of a slow ramp up.

But we're not as dependent on the Middle East for oil as we were then.

Thanks, Obama.

Well, actually, but the thing is, is a lot of the lot of the analysis I've read

about this says that the market's already slightly oversupplied.

So it can absorb price shocks and disruptions better than it could have before.

So I think if this drags out several months, I mean, I think it will definitely

have an effect.

But if this is only for a couple of weeks, you may see some fluctuations in the price

per barrel and possibly the price of the pump.

But I don't think this is it's going to take a lot to get us back to the historic

highs. I think, you know, this is great.

Far more catastrophic than we're seeing right now.

But anyway, so I mean, we'll see, you know, what the consumer reaction is.

And if this burns more interest in EVs or not a little early to tell, but something

to keep an eye on.

We've also got to keep an eye on the Chinese.

Yes, because as we said before, they're coming.

And now what is this?

B.Y.D. one of their brands is claiming to be the longest range EV.

Now, there's a link that we'll include in the show notes to electric.

And in it, what's hilarious is B.Y.D.

brand Denza says we we're going to have the world's longest range EV.

But the reality is it's like another B.Y.D.

brand that will actually have the longest range.

Yeah.

So and the range isn't crazy long, really.

Well, also it's quoted in CLTC, which is a very generous measurement.

Also, too, I should have known about this, but so we I think last week we talked

about like B.Y.D. the brand and Yang Wang were, you know, Yang Wang is like the

Bentley B.Y.D. Bentley.

So I guess Denza is kind of in between.

So I guess Denza is kind of the Audi to, you know, and Yang Wang's like Bentley,

I guess, I don't know.

Anyway, so this is like their mid, mid premium brand.

Anyway, so they just announced the Denza Z9 GT.

So they're claiming 1,036 kilometers, which translates to 644 miles of range

on the CLTC standard.

And again, this kind of, you know, I remember we were talking about the

Neo ET5-T last week.

And I guess that the optional battery is 150 kilowatt hours, which is humongous for a car.

It's an anchor.

The standard one on the Denza is 102.3 kilowatt hours.

Optional one is 122.5.

So they're claiming CLTC ranges of between 509,644 miles.

I would say even crunching this through like the EPA standard, still looking at

potentially 500 plus mile range.

So, you know, pretty big.

But it made me, it got me to thinking.

And I didn't really do a deep dive on kind of the numbers on this.

It makes me wonder if the Chinese are just kind of brute-forcing range.

I haven't heard a lot of discussion about efficiency for Chinese models.

They're just doing bigger and bigger batteries and claiming longer and longer range.

Works for GM.

You know, but they don't have the focus on it like Lucid does.

But I mean, considering how Lucid's doing, I don't know, best example.

Because I think it's a matter of consumers not really caring how the sausage is made.

They just care if it tastes good.

That's a bad analogy.

But, you know, they're just like, you know, as long as it gets me to where I want to go.

This and that, I don't really care about these nerdy, you know, particulars about it.

So, I don't know.

I am thinking, well, you say they don't, maybe they're brute-forcing, maybe they're not.

I just did some rough math and then I did some googling to see if I was right.

And I would say their efficiency on this, if these are about right, is somewhat equivalent to Lucid's.

Really? Yeah.

That's the case, that's impressive.

The Lucid air gets about, according to the Googles,

just over 500 miles of range on the GT, the Grand Touring model.

Most efficient.

Yeah, the longest range, most efficient one is getting just over 500 miles.

And when you look up, and I don't know if they align because I don't do this on the fly

and I don't prepare for anything and I wing life, when you when you Google battery size,

the biggest battery pack that they list is 118 kilowatt hours.

So you could say the range and the battery size comparable.

Give or take.

Yeah, but I don't.

So as weird as the sounds, I don't know if Lucid's longest range model actually has the largest battery.

And it may not.

But I think they're in.

I think I I with zero research shall say that even in the ballpark that it's yeah,

it's within the noise that it's there is a degree of brute-forcing.

That's what you're doing when you throw a giant battery pack into a sedan or a wagon

in this case, because I think it's a wagon in it.

But it's the wagon.

Yeah, I think I think that they're getting there.

But that said, nobody really cares outside of EV nerds that Lucid's so efficient.

Nobody buys them.

Yeah.

So who cares?

Throw a big battery at it, make it cheap, knock it out of the park.

You know, is this is engineering this stuff?

Like, is it substantive to the general consumer?

And honestly, the other thing with the Chinese is their pace of iteration is so fast

that even if they were relative laggards and efficiency,

it wouldn't surprise me if like a year or 18 months down the road,

they they they have a more efficient powertrain, more efficient, lighter weight battery that,

you know, what if Lucid even has an advantage?

I mean, that that gap is narrowing.

So well, and B.Y.D.'s advantage over Lucid is.

Oh, he's laughing.

I'm going to say something stupid.

B.Y.D.'s advantage over Lucid, their big advantage is they'll still be around in five years.

Yeah, these things probably right.

Should I stop these from coming out of my head when I think of these things?

Should I? Should I stop speaking?

I don't know.

I also like the way this vehicle looks.

This Denza Z9.

Why was this not on our list last week?

I don't know. It was kind of.

I don't know, just kind of popped up.

I mean, yeah, it looks pretty cool.

I like it.

Better than the Neo or about the same.

Yeah, probably maybe less.

Well, maybe we'll do a reprise of the top five, like, six months from now.

Every time we need to take a week off.

We'll just do the same thing again.

What do you think of?

What do you think of the Lac-Hon?

Gesundheit.

That might have been racist.

I'm sorry.

I'm going to turn off my brain.

Or add a brain.

I don't know. Let me look.

So, OK, I admittedly we took a week off.

I did not get a chance to do a lot of research on this.

So I am I am on this adventure with the listeners

if they have done no listening research, whatever the word is.

VinFast formalizes Lac-Hon Ultra Luxury Car brand reveals two new models.

VinFast has created a new brand.

Is that what I'm interpreting?

Upscale premium brand and they have made a Bentley look in SUV.

Yes.

And now they have three models.

So I guess the first one came out in August was called the 900LX.

And presumably just from the the marketing boilerplate

kind of sounds like they were trying to aim that at like heads of state.

I totally see it.

This is this I think this is a nice looking car.

It's not it's not awful.

I'm like, I think it's handsome.

Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, got, I mean, I say grill, you know, metaphorically,

because it's not like ventilation for the radiator, but it's a, you know,

kind of a formal looking front end.

It's what imagine.

Remember as BMW increased its kidney grill bigger and bigger.

And then there were all these like memes of like

where the next car is just nothing but grill like the next generation.

Seven series, whatever is all grill.

That's kind of this.

Yeah, that's following along those lines, but I don't dislike this.

Yeah.

I mean, I guess maybe in like Vietnam, Southeast Asia, some emerging markets,

there might be a market for this.

I I think if they still have ambitions in the US, I think they need to start

with VinFast, build the VinFast brand, maybe five years down the road,

maybe launch black Hong in the US, possibly.

I mean, it makes me think about like the slow rollout of Genesis.

Like Hyundai was in the US for like 20 years.

And then they kind of soft launched the Genesis.

At first, they sold them through Hyundai dealers just as kind of.

I don't even know.

Just and I think the initial ones were bad Hyundai Genesis.

Yeah, it was like a trim model.

And then eventually they made it its own standalone brand.

But that whole process was very like drawn out.

It wasn't like snap their fingers, boom.

It costs and I don't know the number, but it's something like at the time,

it was something like three billion dollars or something to launch a brand.

Yeah.

And so they just kind of went, we'll just put it in with the Hyundai dealers.

And then eventually the brand gets launched and it's very expensive

to just launch something you have no idea if it's going to take off

because who's ever heard of Genesis?

Like, yeah, it's it's so expensive.

We're doing OK.

But like I said, took a long time to get to the point where

they're even in the conversation with premium brands.

And VinFast can't get a foothold in America to save its life.

Yeah. So to then launch something else.

I don't know about that.

And I don't think this is the right name market.

Maybe it'll do OK.

But I just mean, like I said, to your point, I think they need to strengthen

their brand and reputation in the U.S.

Before they even think about launching a premium brand here.

And and I think kind of borne out by, you know, like like Lucid and some others.

I think people overestimate how much of a market there is for premium brands.

You know, I think most people just want, you know, reliable, comfortable

transportation, you know, if they, you know, got little dollar signs in their eyes

like, oh, we're going to make all this money with all these, you know,

eighty, ninety, hundred thousand dollar models, that pie is only so big, you know.

So and everything's expensive now.

So like the expensive stuff, well, oddly enough, Lucid was crazy expensive

when it came out and then they didn't adjust their prices really.

And the market came to them.

So all of a sudden they weren't that expensive.

I mean, they're still crazy.

They're still expensive, but they weren't at the time that they announced it.

Eighty thousand dollar sedan was like, you know, to the moon.

Crazy. Yeah. Yeah.

And then everybody started selling cars.

It's kind of creeping up.

So yeah. And then it's a pickup truck's eighty thousand dollars.

And now all of a sudden the Lucid doesn't look that bad.

I think I honestly think honestly,

honestly, honestly, that they need to sell this design to Bentley

and make money that way and just keep pushing on the VinFast brand.

And I think this will make a great high end car.

I think the design looks good.

It's rebadget. Yeah. That's what I think.

There you go.

So this is somewhat of a rebrand, I guess, maybe, or a brand extension.

I mean, I guess is the branding episode.

So Rivian has launched a division called it's Rad.

Which is pretty awesome.

Pretty pretty awesome.

Rivian Adventure Department, which, I don't know, it's like.

OK, I guess if they were kind of trying to reverse engineer the acronym.

But anyway, I mean, everything's a acronym now.

Everything you come up with the acronym.

Yeah, I think we coined a new term.

I mean, I've heard that somewhere else.

I didn't come up with that.

But that's kind of the thing.

That's every legal, every every bill in America that like the SAVE Act,

all this stuff, it's a acronym. Yeah.

So what is the Rivian?

Current driver says new rad division will push the limits of performance.

Formalizes this works team that already existed in Rivian,

but it's unclear if this will lead to future rad badged Rivian models.

So they gave something a name.

Yeah, so this is kind of sounds like this is going to be their version

of SRT or AMG kind of give or take.

They said it will use real world experience

such as events like Pike Peak, Pikes Peak and the Rebel Rally.

Or the Rebel Rally.

Rebel, Rebel, Rebel.

I think it's the Rebel Rally.

They take, if it's the one I'm thinking of, it's like all women.

So women's. Yeah.

I've heard Rebel, but potato potato.

Huh.

Anyway, we stop the podcast and Google this to see.

It says as a proving ground to informed features and performance

that will be found on future vehicles.

So they're claiming they've already done one thing called the rad tuner.

So this enables like owners of the Gen two quad motor models to

to make their own individualized drive modes.

So.

Do they need this?

Do we need anything?

I need food, shelter and clothes.

I mean, cool, I guess.

I mean, I don't know.

I mean, I'm not, I'm not mad about it.

Is this kind of their answer to the because at least in

Carn Drivers article, they've got it ripping around in some snow.

Is this like the Mach E rally edition?

Is that they're just trying to get it that market?

Is that because the Rivian Adventure Department forgive me.

Isn't that Rivian?

Isn't that their brand?

Yeah, isn't Rivian the adventure EV?

Did I get this wrong the whole time?

Wasn't Rivian the one building, putting level two chargers and trailheads

for like that was part of their original pitch and they started doing it.

You think they should come rad chargers now?

I kind of feel like they're already.

Like this department is is the is the brand.

They're now saying, oh, we've got this skunk large brand.

But so I see this is kind of being like, you know, as being like, you know,

for our two or our three or one, whatever, they'll have like a rad model.

They'll have like more bolstered seats and like a little more power, you know,

special colors.

I mean, maybe it needs to just maybe I need to sit on it for a while.

I don't I'm just confused, just confused.

It's like if Jeep suddenly said, OK, we're going to have our adventure

department where we're going to have this addition of Jeeps that can go off road.

Well, I mean, but it's funny you say that because like the Stalantis,

you know, FCA legacy brands, so Jeep, Dodge,

round, whatever, they're masters of special of special additions

where most of the time they just slap decals on them, paint them a different color.

You know, whatever.

Oh, we have this new blah, blah addition.

Yeah.

So I mean, case in point, just like on the the the Wrangler,

like it used to be you could only get the Hemi and like the Hemi Rubicon

392, you know, is 100 super expensive, right?

So now I guess there's like a Wrangler Willys with the Hemi that's only 70.

I mean, it's still not cheap, but it's like, I don't know,

if I bought that original Rubicon for over a hundred K, I'd be kind of ticked off.

But I'd be like, really?

Now he got it for 30 grand less than I paid.

But I mean, I don't know, cool, I guess.

I mean, I hear, I kind of hear what you're saying, but I'm not upset about it.

I'm not upset.

I mean, I like Rivian.

Yeah, I just don't get the name for Rivian Adventure Department

when that to me is the brand is the brand that is Rivian is Rivian Adventure Department.

Maybe we should reach out to RJ and have him come on the podcast and talk about it.

And explain what what if what rat is.

Why is it different than Rivian?

Yeah, what have I been getting their branding wrong?

This is making me question what I've been viewing.

Rivian has from day one.

I viewed them as the Jeep competitor as the lifestyle off road.

Let's go camping.

Let's go adventure.

Let's go up into the mountains.

That's always been their thing.

And even the R3 is like lifted.

It's the.

I like it.

I like their paint.

I like the color schemes.

Link in the show notes.

It looks great.

I like the wheels.

All of it seems great.

I just seems like it's the Department of Redundancy Department or whatever.

That's where my brains get on this.

So also related to Rivian somewhat.

So this gets back to the whole drama, ongoing nationwide drama with the

franchise dealers and EV startups and legal status.

This also peripherally kind of involves not the specific story, but the

the bigger issue, Scout and Volkswagen, whether Scout is a legitimate new brand

or it's, you know, Division of Volkswagen and where that falls.

Anyway, so there's a bill in Washington state that would give

Rivian and Lucid the same status as Tesla.

So I guess Tesla got kind of grandfathered in because they were

kind of the trailblazer with EVs.

And of course, even then, you know, this 2011, 2012, the franchise dealers were

like, Hey, you know, you can't do that.

So they said, OK, well, we'll make an exception for you.

So I guess Tesla was allowed.

I want to say in Washington state was like four or five.

You know, dealerships statewide.

And they said, OK, after that, we're closing the gate.

You know, no one else is allowed.

But then after Tesla came to market, then Rivian and Lucid did and they were

like, Hey, wait a minute, you know, how come we're, you know, how come Tesla

gets an exception?

We don't.

So I guess this is kind of a way to rectify this somewhat.

So, um, and I guess, I guess the dealers are kind of on board with it, but, but

they're still trying to close the gate.

But this time to the Chinese brands.

So what is the deal?

They're just saying they're giving the same states.

Like they're just there, they're basically giving it sounds like they're giving

the same allowances to Rivian and Lucid that they give to Tesla.

So, um, it sounds like they'll be allowed to have a limited number of, um, I guess

showrooms or dealerships in the state, uh, on the condition they have service

centers, um, you know, they meet certain criteria, um, but this would only, and

it said, so the interesting thing is said, key to the deal provisions that

restrict eligibility to US based companies that exclusively produce

battery electric vehicles and have at least 300 of their cars registered in

Washington as of January 1st.

My guess would be both Lucid and Rivian meet that standard.

But once again, making something that is very specific targeted to a couple

companies.

So then if you're a new upstart, it's done the bloody.

Yeah.

I was just looking up Vanderhall, they have, they've got the little three

wheeled there, I think out of Utah.

Utah, I think.

And when there's a long pause like that for audio listeners, I'm usually

scrunching up my face trying to think they've got a couple of vehicles now,

but they have not been able to, last I looked into this, they can't sell

their vehicles in Utah.

You can't sell direct in Utah.

So they would have to sell to like, deliver to California and then you

come back in.

So like, none of its employees have cars of theirs because you can't, there

was, yeah, I think that there are workarounds, but the chances of them

having 300 vehicles in Washington state to meet this requirement is very

slim and it's not battery electric, 300 total.

Yeah.

And they're not battery electric.

So you have limit the once again, written a very narrow bill to grant rights

to specific companies.

And I think, yeah, everybody should be treated equally on this.

And yes, they should do something like this.

But how about you get it right the second time?

You didn't get it right the first time with giving just Tesla an allowance.

Now you're coming back and now you're going, okay, well, let's put a bar in

there that only Rivian and Lucid and maybe one other company meets.

And so we're not opening the floodgates.

And that's probably how they get it past the dealer association is.

Well, yeah, it's just that's, you know, we're not opening the door to everybody.

But come on.

Is it just open it to everybody?

Just, I mean, do it right.

Do it right at some point.

You don't have to convince me.

I mean, to me, I think the franchise model is kind of anachronistic.

And if they truly, if the franchise model truly provides as much value as

they're claiming, they shouldn't fear competition.

Mm hmm.

But at every turn, they're throwing up obstacles, like trying to, you know,

block new market entrance.

So I just, I'm sorry.

I don't have a lot of, I don't have a lot of sympathy for franchise dealers anymore.

So.

So I guess this is a little bit of progress.

Somewhat.

Should we be happy about this?

Is this I seem like I should be if you're Rivian or Lucid.

Yeah, but yeah.

Which they need as much help as they can get right now.

Yeah.

So I guess we'll take it where we can get it.

I just seems.

I don't know.

And it's, I mean, I'm still surprised that this hasn't gone to the Supreme

Court in some form that basically, but then again, Nata is such a powerful

lobby organization that, you know, I don't know, I can see why the Supreme

Court, I'm sure they'd try.

I think that both sides have too much to lose.

I bet that they don't want a decision on any of this.

Imagine if this went to the Supreme Court and they said, yeah, you don't need

a dealer like you sell factory directs to everybody.

But I mean, Volkswagen, they've already shown with Scout that they don't

really want to do the dealer model.

They would probably boot all their dealers, just turned into service stations

for getting the vehicles that exist serviced.

And then they just sell everything direct.

Like, yeah, and they probably do that overnight.

If it made sense, I, it would be, I think Nata realizes if factory direct

was a law of the land, that's an existential threat to them.

And if it goes the other way, though, Tesla's out of business.

Like, if you suddenly can't sell factory direct, well, if it went to the

Supreme Court, if it goes one way, it destroys the dealer networks.

If it goes the other way, it destroys all modern EV manufacturers.

I don't think they want a decision.

Well, at least in my mind, the argument in favor of factory direct is

stronger than the argument in favor of mandating franchise dealers.

But either way, it destroys if you've, you've got a 50% chance of having

your model destroyed.

If you went to the Supreme Court and they ruled on something like this, I

don't think either side wants that.

I think they want to go through and do little bills, little bills, little bills.

And, but eventually it ends up factory direct for all.

Like that's the road.

That's where we're going.

That's, that's the end game.

So I, that's where the market wants to go as far as the businesses go.

I mean, I thought those consumers, I think.

Yeah.

Like it, this is where we're going guys.

Like, come on.

But I don't think anybody wants to go to court and have a definitive

Supreme Court ruling on it.

I think all of them are scared.

Yep.

We got time for a couple of we do fast lightning round.

Lightning round.

And these are all Tesla related.

So this goes in the, um, under the file of probably like, I'll believe it

when I see it, knowing you, right?

Probably.

What are we talking about?

Tesla mega chargers.

So this is the charging that worked for the semi.

Yep.

So they have two operational all ones of them.

Yep.

Both in California or no, actually, technically one in California, one in Nevada.

This is the mega charger.

Mega charger.

So this would be for the semi.

Uh, they announced 64 locations quote coming soon.

Hmm.

So these are clustered.

They're pretty substantial expansion.

California, Washington state, Colorado, Texas, Georgia and Illinois.

So coming soon is kind of open ended.

So coming soon was a semi back in 2017, which was almost 10 years ago.

Mega white charger network, but they're using.

I've already dropped.

I've already lost it from my mind.

So they're using a standard that then presumably Peter built and Mercedes and

whoever else is going to make electric trucks or back user loves truck stops.

Yeah.

So this is in no way a bad thing because it would be instantly like how Nax became

eventually an open standard.

It's starting off as an open standard.

Yeah.

So unless there's software locking it to the semis, which I guess they could do,

I don't know that this is a good thing.

Yeah, just coming soon is less than 10 years away.

I hope so.

I mean, yeah, I mean, I really, I really think electrification really could

have a transformative effect on the class state market.

Um, I mean, and I know you were kind of a skeptic before we talked with the

Charin and I think that conversation really changed your mind in terms of

totally the potential.

So that, that I don't remember what episode if you just Google Charin and the

walk car, you will find an episode.

And I went into that with hydrogen is where you need to go for bigger

operations like classic trucks and long distance, um, trucking and air flight and

everything.

And when I left that conversation, that was the turning point for me on

hydrogen is dead and electrification for these class a class a large industrial

use that there is actually a reality there.

Now, I think to be fair, I think the use case for full electrification class

eight, I would, I would call mid short to mid range roots.

So I would say up to like 400 miles.

I think if you're talking coast to coast, I don't certainly not from an

infrastructure standpoint, but from an infrastructure and battery standpoint,

we're not there yet.

I think in the interim, you'll see probably more hybridization.

Um, you'll, you'll see hybrid trucks, possibly hybrid CNG.

Um, I mean, those e-axles, I forgot who is doing it.

The, the, well, that's the other thing is, is actually putting the electrification

on the trailer, which is power train agnostic for the truck.

The truck could be electric diesel CNG hydrogen doesn't matter, but the, the,

um, kind of propulsion boost from the trailer gives you like a 30% increase

in fuel economy.

So I think possibly the interim step is you have these e-trailers, um, that bump

your fuel economy, but if you did the e-trailer in addition to an EV, um, truck,

I mean, you could see huge fuel savings potentially.

So we suck at lightning rounds.

Class eight segment has a really interesting one to watch.

That's not even taking into account, you know, the whole autonomy conversation.

But that was a lightning round of one item that took like five minutes.

Okay, lightning round over.

Uh, let's, uh, Tesla regains market share in Europe in February.

Still below historical benchmarks.

Okay.

Great.

Uh, and boy jingles report rounds up top five, top five EV sold this.

I know you want to talk about top five EV sold in the US with lowest

cost of maintenance and number one was vin fast.

No.

Oh, uh, what was number one?

Number one was my car, model three.

Oh, specifically your car.

Ed's model three.

Yes.

Uh, except for the, uh, suspension, um, bushes, the charger door, the equation and all

this, all the tires, model, model three, model Y, model S were all in the top five.

The other two were the leaf and, um, one other one.

Oh, the Ioniq six, Ioniq six.

Oppie.

So that's wild.

Is that because there's only like two of them that have been sold and one of them's

in my neighbor's drive.

Maybe, you know, again, I know you want to put a, put a bow on this, but, um, it

kind of, kind of makes me wonder if, because, you know, Tesla's factory direct

and that's, but the franchise dealerships, the big part of their business model is

service and after sale service and maintenance.

If honestly, it's kind of designed in that some of the EVs from like C manufacturers

quote need more maintenance.

I don't know.

I don't want to get too tinfoil half, but.

Hey, I think think about.

Yeah.

I was watching a YouTuber thing where somebody was buying or bought a model S.

I don't remember the year.

And there were just things like, because it was back in the day when remember body

gaps were huge and all this.

And so the model S has had like some of the worst build quality.

The early ones.

Yeah.

And the trunk wouldn't close and the guy at the end just grabbed the trunk when

it was open, the hatch and twisted it.

And now it closed like at the automated close wasn't working because it was just

the car was just so tweaked in every way.

I didn't have minor damage here and there, but there were things like this was a

high mileage used model S.

There were things like that that you might take it back to a dealer for.

And there were things like CV boots were going things, general maintenance items

that you're going to get to.

The problem is you got to get to 150 or 180,000 miles before you get to these.

If you take a regular gas powered vehicle, nothing really requires maintenance.

Except for the engine until you hit 180,000 miles.

And that's when you start getting bearings going hubs going CV boots.

You've got transmission fluid needs changing.

That's when you get into the stuff that EVs have.

So you've got to get through the first, I don't know, I'm really bad at math.

Yeah, six or seven years at least before you're getting any kind of return on the

business.

And when you start selling EVs, like now you got six or seven years of twiddling

your thumbs in the service department waiting for those cars to come back.

Eventually they will eventually they will need all of the maintenance that goes

on with gas powered vehicles.

It's just you've got this long period of time before anything breaks.

And it's the same stuff that's breaking on gas cars.

It's just the bigger mechanical tires and washer fluid.

Yeah, I mean, price tires could go up a lot and the washer fluid refills,

windshield wipers, like all of those repairs could get could become exponentially

more expensive than what you'd think, because that's where they've now got to

make their money or the dealers buy out pet boys and pet boys become

a division of for the whole M&A landscape is like it's whole other whole other

discussion.

So and we don't have time for that save that for next time.

Yeah, everything we talked about linking the show notes where the show notes.

If you listen to the audio version of the podcast, shame on you.

Should have been watching YouTube, but we put the podcast notes, the show notes

in the podcast as well.

I don't know, click info or whatever your favorite podcast app thing does.

If you're on YouTube, just scroll down.

You'll see all the show notes there.

There'll be links to everything you can click it.

And good things happen when you click links.

Remember that with that works for email too.

Any email that comes in, just click the link.

Only good things can happen guys.

The next week.

Oh, what's going on next week?

Special episode.

Hopefully.

Yes.

If it all comes to happening.

So, hmm, all right, well, yep.

See you and the guest next week.

0:00

48:13

260: That's RAD

Toyota Corolla

EV demand

gas guzzler

Honda Accord

Honda Civic

Toyota Prius

GMC Hummer

EVs

EV

Renault Modus

B.Y.D.

CLTC

150 kilowatt hours battery

driving range

GM

Lucid Air

powertrain

Denza Z9

kidney grill

Hyundai Genesis

VinFast

Rivian

Jeep Wrangler

Wrangler Rubicon

franchise dealers

Volkswagen

Tesla Semi

Dodge Charger

Ford F-150 Lightning

Tesla Model Y

Tesla Model S

Nissan Leaf

Hyundai Ioniq

About this episode

Original notes