30 years of Porsche Boxster
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Car
Porsche 911
The Porsche 911 is a famous sports car that many car enthusiasts love. It's known for its unique shape and great performance on the road.
Car
Porsche Boxster
Car
Porsche Boxster Spyder
The Porsche Boxster Spyder is a sportier version of the Boxster. It's lighter and usually has a more powerful engine, making it more fun to drive.
Car
Porsche 981
The Porsche 981 is a model of sports car made by Porsche, specifically the Boxster and Cayman versions that were made between 2012 and 2016. They are known for being fun to drive and having a sleek design.
Car
Macan
The Porsche Macan is a smaller SUV made by Porsche that combines luxury with sporty driving. It was first released in 2014 and is designed for those who want a high-end vehicle that is also practical.
Car
Porsche 718
The Porsche 718 is a sports car that comes in two main versions: the Cayman, which is a coupe, and the Boxster, which is a convertible. It's designed for people who love to drive and want a fun, fast car.
Term
over list
'Over list' means that the car was sold for more than what the manufacturer suggested it should cost. This often happens when a car is very popular and hard to find.
Concept
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch is a well-known racetrack in England where cars and motorcycles race. It's famous for its twists and turns, making it exciting for drivers and fans.
Term
concept car
A concept car is a special type of car that car companies make to show off new ideas and designs. These cars are usually not sold to the public and help companies decide what to build next.
Car
Audi Tt
The Audi TT is a small sports car that looks stylish and performs well. It has been around since the late 1990s and is known for its unique design.
Term
GTS
GTS means Gran Turismo Sport, which is a special version of some Porsche cars that are designed to be faster and sportier than the regular models. They usually have better performance and unique features.
Term
RS
RS means Rennsport, which is a special high-performance version of some Porsche cars. These models are designed for better speed and handling, often used in racing.
Car
Porsche 982
The Porsche 982 is the newer version of the Porsche Boxster and Cayman that started being made in 2016. It has updated looks and new technology compared to the older models.
Term
993
The 993 is a version of the Porsche 911 made in the mid to late 1990s. It's famous for being the last model with an air-cooled engine, which many fans love.
Term
964
The 964 is a version of the Porsche 911 made in the late 1980s and early 1990s. It brought new features that made the car better and more modern.
Term
G-Series
The G-Series is a specific group of Porsche 911 cars made between the mid-1970s and late 1980s. They are known for their unique look and performance features.
Car
BMW Z3
Car
Honda S2000S
Term
mid-engine
Mid-engine means the car's engine is located in the middle of the car, which helps it handle better and be more balanced when driving.
Car
Porsche 911 GT3
Term
horsepower
Horsepower is a way to measure how powerful a car's engine is. The higher the horsepower, the faster the car can go.
Car
Porsche
Porsche is a famous car brand that makes sports cars. The speaker is talking about having owned one back in 2004.
Concept
restomod
Restomod is when someone takes an old car, fixes it up, and adds new parts to make it better to drive. It's like giving a classic car a modern upgrade while keeping its original style.
Car
Porsche 986
The Porsche 986 is the first version of the Boxster sports car that Porsche made. It has a unique engine placement that helps it handle well on the road.
Term
GT2
The GT2 is a special version of the Porsche 911 that is built for speed and performance. It's usually faster and more expensive than regular 911s, making it a favorite among serious car fans.
Company
Center Gravity
Center Gravity is a company that makes parts for cars, especially to help them handle better on the road. They change the suspension, which is the system that connects the car to its wheels, to make the car drive more smoothly and perform better.
Term
chassis
The chassis is the main structure of a car that holds everything together, like the engine and wheels. It's important for how the car drives and feels on the road.
Term
sports car
A sports car is a type of car made to go fast and handle well. They are usually lighter and have stronger engines than regular cars, making them fun to drive.
Term
RPM
RPM means how many times the engine's parts go around in one minute. Higher numbers usually mean the engine is working harder and can go faster, but it can also wear out the engine faster.
Term
MO30 suspension
MO30 suspension is a special upgrade for some Porsche cars that makes them handle better and feel more stable when driving. It includes better parts like springs and shock absorbers.
Car
Porsche 987
The Porsche 987 is the second version of the Boxster, which has better performance and more features compared to the first version.
Term
direct injection engines
Direct injection engines spray fuel directly into the engine's combustion chamber instead of mixing it with air first. This helps the engine run more efficiently and can improve power and reduce pollution.
Car
Porsche 907S
Car
Porsche Cayman
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That really is the highlight of my year. It does not get any better than that.
Return of the Max.
Sorry about that.
Apologising, first words back. It's NineWorks Radio, we're here at Paragon and Max is back in.
And the microphones have died.
Have they died?
No they haven't. There we go.
Oh yeah, is that term that famous little red button?
The red button is on.
It is working hard. Excellent, excellent, thank you.
I'll try it again just on the off chance that we are recording.
It's NineWorks Radio, we're lucky enough to be here at Paragon and we're joined by Max.
How you doing brother?
Pretty good thanks.
Hating every second, I love it.
I'm just shell shot by your dancing.
I'm not really sure what that was.
I need to apologize to Alex as well. I'm really sorry.
You wrote your knackers on his back.
We got close, yeah, we got close.
Sorry.
It's one of the highlights of the calendar year.
It's not Christmas, it's not Le Mans.
It's the annual Paragon curry evening.
Thank you to Mark, Jamie and Jason for having us all back.
And for lavishing us with the beautiful Ruby Murray.
That's a round of applause for that.
It was a great pleasure, it was a happy wall.
We're very privileged to be joined by and for Paragon customers
and driven or hidden collective hardcore.
Among our ranks recently departed back onto the road was Toby,
so an honourable shout to Toby who drove three hours through London traffic
to be down here just outside Tumbridge,
stayed for 45 minutes and unfortunately has had to get back on the road.
The things you'll do for a free curry, I guess.
But yeah, we're here to celebrate, as it was last year,
where it was all kind of 9-11 chat.
It's the complete opposite end of the scale for that today
in terms of subject matter because we're leaving 9-11 chat firmly at home
and we're talking about Porsche's premier mid-engine sports car
that comes Sam's roof.
Cool.
Was that Boxster?
It is.
All right, yeah, yeah, good. Just one more message.
Well played. So that's our theme for today.
I think pretty much everyone here owns a Boxster.
Have I known a Boxster of some description?
Or a Spider, Nick?
Yeah.
Or a Boxster Spider?
Yeah.
So I think everybody does.
We're all in there.
Excellent.
So it's 30 years of the Boxster in 2026
with Grant Larson's original design,
aging like a fine wine, as we can see behind us here
with this beautiful low mileage and pristine car
supplied by you guys at Paragon a couple of times, I think.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, it's a car we've known for a long time
and owned now by Graeme, who's sitting at the back over there.
And yeah, it's a pleasure to have it back here
because it's kind of a definitive example of that first generation.
And hopefully today, because we've got three different types here,
you kind of see a bit of the chronology
as to how they changed and developed over the years.
So yeah, that is that special.
Without a doubt.
Without a doubt.
So for those listening at home,
we've got behind us here in the Paragon showroom,
this lovely 986, as Jay said.
We then got representing the 987 generation
is the Boxster Spider,
which is currently under the tutelage of Mr. Jeffrey.
Thanks for bringing it in, mate.
No coverage build on the car by anybody.
Not yet.
Not yet, not yet at all.
Max was meant to bring his 981 in, but came in a McCann.
So that's good.
Well, I didn't realise it was going to come in the showroom.
Oh, I see.
If I'd...
We'd have had to change the number plates.
I don't think it's got camera number plates on it any more so.
Well done.
But obviously with the 718 being based on the 981 platform,
hence its internal type co-being 982,
we're very fortunate to have also sharing showroom space with us today,
the stunning Carmine Red GTS 4-Liter, which is recently sold.
Yeah, and a big shout out to Jim Marriott if he ever tunes in,
because this is your car that we're talking about now.
Jim lives somewhere in the north of England.
I forget where now.
He's flying down on December the 1st to collect that car,
but he hasn't actually seen yet.
There you go.
It's going to be a great first drive back.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, we always say, please get your bum in the seat as soon as you can
and do a proper drive.
Well, he's doing exactly that because he's got no other option.
I guess just to outline to everybody here then,
so like format today, we'll discuss like the four generations.
I guess on the top level, there's so much kind of stuff already out there
from a technical viewpoint.
I think it's great to just lean on the experience
that you guys have had dealing with these cars.
I mean, again, Jamie mentioned earlier on that your time at Paragon predates the Boxster.
Yeah, well, I was here two years before the Boxster came out,
so I saw the first oven, which was nice.
Excellent.
Yeah, so you're very well placed to talk with some authority on these cars.
So we'll do that.
And for people in the room as well, it's very much like an interactive Q&A session, ideally.
So please do get involved.
It's not all about us just going on.
So yeah, between the say, I don't know, maybe 20 of us in the room all told,
let's kind of split this down.
Who has 986?
One, two, three, four.
Yeah, 987s.
One, two, three, four again.
Yeah, including spider.
Nine eight ones.
Oh, just the one.
Just the one.
Just the one.
And he didn't bring it.
And literally.
Seven, one, eight owners, full or part time.
So we've got three, two, three.
Excellent.
OK, OK, so pretty good cross section.
Pretty good cross section.
I guess, guys, what was your first first memory of the Boxster really?
Well, for me, it was the, I think it was the first car that actually drove here.
So in the next few days, I will be celebrating 20 years here.
And I'm pretty sure that the first car I drove was a 986s.
So, yeah, it was literally the first Porsche that, I think,
I think it was the first Porsche I actually drove at all.
And, yeah, that was the start of my slippery slope, really.
Yeah, and it took me 20, well, 19 years to actually get one myself.
But, you know, I'm a slow learner.
We'll talk about coming full circle, to be fair.
Yeah, it's just, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, it's brilliant.
I remember jumping in it, driving down the road and thinking, oh, bugger.
Because until that point, I think it's really well known that I was a little bit anti,
if anything, sort of Porsche.
And then I started driving these things.
And this first opening gambit, which was one of the less flash or expensive versions
of the cars that we were selling, was tremendous.
I mean, just straight out of the box.
It was just delivered.
And, yeah.
So, literally, that is the first time I came into contact with one.
And that was the first car that I drove here.
So, yeah.
Yeah, I suppose my first memory of the box, there was the one that I owned,
which was my first Porsche, my own one, which was a 1997 2.5 box,
the Arctic Silver, with nephrite green interior.
Oh, nice.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, okay.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, it took me 19 years to be able to stomach that.
Yeah, I can't say I was fond of it back then, but it was my first Porsche.
It's funny how things turn, isn't it?
Now it's the thing.
I remember the first one we purchased was three months old.
We paid overs for it.
It was quite a lot over list.
£10,000 over.
We sold that car for £49,000, a 2.5 Boxster.
Black 10 seats, fairly base model car.
Yeah, I mean, £50,000 in 1996 was probably £80,000 today or something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Didn't that have 16-inch wheels as well?
I think it was proper basic, wasn't it?
Basic edition, yeah.
Yeah.
So, I can't recall for how long they were made over list, but definitely the early cars were
making over list.
Wow, that is pretty fascinating to be honest.
Yeah, very, very different.
How old were you?
How old were you?
And then there was a guy called Mike Pickup that raced one.
And that was when, that would have been 1997.
He raced, bought a new Boxster and raced it in the club championship in class two.
And I did a day at Brands Hatch, it was like a corporate day where I was taking people
around.
And first of all, I was supposed to be sitting next to people that were, they were from a
bank and they were driving around and they were, I hid basically, I ran away and hid
because it was so dangerous.
And he found me, Mike Pickup, and said, look, you can do the lap rides in the car if you
can't sit next to people in a passenger seat.
So I spent the day driving his race car, which was good fun.
But he did the whole season in that car.
Yeah.
No livery at all.
It was just a silver Boxster, you know, put the cage in, but he did the minimum to get
it on the track and he won some races in it.
Wow.
Yeah, precursor to the Boxster Cup.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Maxwell, I'm keen to know your first impression of the Boxster, your first experience.
Well, the Boxster concept was pretty exciting, wasn't it?
And that, I mean, that predated the production car by a few years, didn't it?
Is it 1993?
Three years, yeah.
Yeah, 1993.
I mean, that looked amazing, didn't it?
I mean, it still looks pretty cool now, I think, when you look at it.
And 96, I suppose I was 20 when it, so I wasn't a Porsche buyer when it came out.
And I just remember a bit of a crushing disappointment the way that the production car didn't look
quite as good as the concept, because the concept really did look amazing.
The dashboard was, do you remember, they had, like, aluminium fans and things like that,
and then you saw the plastic ones as well.
Yeah.
But they would have chopped people's fingers off.
I suppose so.
I suppose so.
I mean, and I suppose the, you know, the failing to my eyes at the time was, I suppose, the
greatest success of the Boxster, isn't it, is that it had to, I mean, it was, it shared
so much componentry within our forthcoming 996 at the time, and I guess that's what gave
it the slightly bigger front overhang and, you know, because it had to share the, you
know, all sorts of things, you know, including some of the interior.
So that's what made it such a success.
But against the concept, it was a bit, at the time, I thought a bit disappointing.
Okay.
Interesting.
Very, very interesting.
Well, especially if you look at Audi TT, for example, I mean, that looked pretty close
to the, to the concept, and they carried that over with the tiny overhangs and all that
sort of thing in it.
And the interior bits, you know, that seems like such a triumph.
But, you know, it is what it is, and it was a great success for all that component sharing
reason.
Yeah.
Andy?
I agree with what Max has said there.
It really was a crushing blow when the actual production car, but it's amazing how just recently
in the last couple of years that that car has really come into its own.
And it's now, it looks right for some reason.
And that just seems to have happened recently.
I've driven quite a few 986s of recently.
Most of those have been lower power, either 2.5 or 2.7s.
And I've loved, just loved driving that.
I love you, Andy.
You normally go in at the top?
No, yeah.
I went into the bottom of all these ones in the boxters.
Yeah.
But they are fantastic.
Yeah.
Really good.
Yeah.
I mean, we don't need to dedicate so much editorial real estate time to the history and what that
car did for Porsche.
You'd have to be living under a planetary sized rock to not comprehend by now that it
saved the company or certainly contributed to saving Porsche as a company through the
part sharing with the 996 platform, left a hell of a legacy since with the gradual proliferation
of the line up through the decades with, you know, GTS and Spyder and RS even coming along
laterally.
Does any, be interested to know, does anybody have a handle on how many boxters have been
made, total production, all four generations to date?
There's a little pop quiz.
PP saying 400,000.
Any higher or lower?
No?
Sounds like a good guess.
Post-curry low.
I'll just need to turn off Mark Morrison there.
PP, it's funny you say 400,000 because according to the internet, which could be wrong, but
it's possibly right.
Yeah.
Porsche has produced over 400,000 boxters across different generations as of mid 2024.
So we'll be a tickle up on that now.
Broken down as follows, 986, 164,000, which is to tickle under 165,000 really.
987 is 79,000.
The 981 is 54,000 and a half.
And then the 982, again as of summer 2024, so one less model year, is 23,670.
And some quick maths that is slightly less than 400,000.
So, and this is...
Don't believe what he says.
An interesting breakdown, but I think it shows beyond any reasonable doubt just how much
of a success the 986 was, because pretty much according to these stats that are clearly
wrong, 50% of total box of production was that first generation, which can see that the 718
has been out for, getting on for 10 years now.
Yeah.
Had quite a long life-cycle, didn't it, the 986?
903?
906, yeah, yeah, I think it was 04 maybe.
04, perhaps, yeah.
Good few years.
Eight years.
And we'll then ask the owners thereafter.
But for you guys up here, what in your opinion did the box to do for the buying public?
I know it gave like another option, but what was the option, aside from the obvious of
being able to stick the roof down, because ultimately there were three open top 911 variants.
I think for some people, it was an entry level into Porsche ownership, to start off with
the box that was first dipping the water and then work up to obviously a 911 after that.
Yeah, I mean, obviously that's why Porsche produced it.
There was a cost element to it.
And in our market, at least during the time that I've been here, it was very much a way
of people sampling what these cars were about that previously couldn't do it or wouldn't
do it.
They could get something as modern as they were used to driving, something with pedals
that were in the right place and all that sort of stuff, but for similar money to some
of the BMWs or whatever that they had previously been driving.
And that probably was the secret of its, well, one of the secrets of its success and the
success thereafter of Porsche because of it.
The interesting thing is, Jamie said, at that point it was potentially a stepping stone or
seen as a stepping stone to 911 and things, whereas nowadays we're seeing sometimes the
reverse of that.
So people that have been through lots and lots and lots of Porsches and lots and lots
of 911s or whatever are now coming back to mid-engine platform.
So it's kind of, it's an ever-shifting thing, but yeah.
Sorry, no, I was just going to say that obviously I was involved before the Boxster.
G-Series, 964, 993, they're all quirky cars.
You know, they all had, you really had to love them for being Porsches.
They all had arguably design defects in a way, the pedals being offset.
You know, you just said, well, it's a 911, so you've got to get used to the cantilever pedals.
You've got that strange driving style that you didn't have to do with other cars.
But if you had a Porsche, you had to just love it.
That's what it is.
You've got to love it for it.
You know, it's been designed as a race car and you've got to get used to that.
The Boxster came out and all of a sudden you didn't have to put up with any of that.
Not only was the hood 9-day better than anything previously.
You know, the way it folds away.
But it was as good as a Japanese sports car or anything else on the market.
It wasn't just an evolution of the car since 1964 that you had to love because you're a Porsche owner.
You've got to love it for what it is.
It would appeal to non-Porsche people for the first time.
I think that was a big advantage with the Boxster that it brought a whole load of new customers their way.
Yeah, to elaborate on that, it was a car that anybody could jump into and feel at home with straight away.
And that was key.
That was really, really strong.
We're going back to a time of 993 and all that sort of stuff and we all love them and all that sort of stuff.
They are weird and quirky things.
And you've obviously got an engine hanging out the back and all that sort of stuff and a weird handling characteristics which I love, most of us love.
But it is hard to get your head around whereas you jumped into a mid-engine Boxster, been engineered by Porsche
and it was just a fabulous thing.
It felt like a natural extension to sort of cliche up of you and it's a natural driving car.
And that was fantastic.
That just opened the doors to so many people, feeling more comfortable with the idea of owning a Porsche.
Plus, of course, it was very easy to live with.
From a practical point of view, you've got a couple of boots and stuff.
You can raise the roof up, it feels like a coupé.
When it's down, you've got a complete road so you can take it anywhere you wish and it will do its job.
And if you want to really drive it down a country road, then you find, bloody hell, these Porsche guys do no thing or two about chassis engineering.
It was just fabulous.
And then if you get into more of that, then you can start exploring these weird 911 things.
There was a lot of competition up against the Boxster back then because you think when they first came out, when we were selling,
there was SLK, Z3, later on Honduras 2000s and stuff.
There's a lot of comparisons that people used to do against the Boxster but I think the Boxster always used to come out trumps over those cars
in terms of what they delivered and driving experience and stuff.
It's a great point. It would be great at this point to open it up to the floor really.
So from the inception of the concept, it's been great to get that insight.
If we kind of lump forward to the modern day, what do you guys and girls think the Boxster gives that another Porsche sports car perhaps doesn't?
Don't you think it also opened up to the wives, girlfriends, that market.
It was a much more acceptable vehicle.
And also, is it not what a lot of the great British sports cars that were around the MGs, the TR6s, Triumphs,
that industry died and there was a waiting market for all the cars that you said, the S2000s, the SLKs.
But this was daintier in many ways.
So I think that a much wider demographic the car appealed to because it was easy to drive its size and price point taking on board your Overs.
Anyone else to add into the mix, particularly from today as well.
It would be great to know from today what the concept gives you as an owner.
Before I do that, the entry level, the first Boxster I drove was a 96 IP 2.5 tipper that was a friend of mine.
And he bought it brand new and then realized he didn't like it and he gave it to me and I had free use of this car for many months.
And I'll be controversial and say there's a car where the engine was in the right place.
It had been designed as a soft top from the outset and not had a roof cut off it.
So it had the right level of sort of torsional rigidity and you didn't have to slow down for roundabouts, which is always a bonus.
So and that was 2.5 tipper and I had a while of a time in that car and it's another one of those reference points that later got me to actually buy one.
I totally agree with the points about the breadth of the engineering and accessibility.
But for me, it was a purpose built soft top and you can't deny the engineering of, you know, porks have spent decades trying to work around having an engine in the wrong place
and then they go and put it in the right place.
And you know, I think they're great.
I've got three now as in mid-engine cars having come from 911s.
There's a place for 911, but I love the mid-engine stuff as well.
Great, great to get that sort of feedback from someone that's very well experienced with the platform.
Great.
Great behind you.
This is the man that owns that lovely Silver 986 there.
I suppose I would summarise that car for me anyway as a proper sports car that you can use today on our roads.
And it just becomes more and more relevant, I think, because it's light and it's small.
Not particularly powerful, but it is quick on the right roads.
I can verify that having followed Graeme through much of Italy.
You weren't meant to say that.
So I've been lucky enough to have one or two lovely Porsches from here, as is that.
And up to GT3, and true to self, probably didn't keep the GT3 long enough to really value that,
but because for me it wasn't particularly usable for the sort of road driving that we wanted to do.
But having said that, I suspect on the trip we did last year, only this year, through Italy and France,
that gave me everything I wanted.
So it is a truly brilliant car.
And yes, it saved Porsche because it came at the right time.
And as one or two people have said, it was accessible and it was...
Every time you read a road test, it was always the best car.
But it is a proper driver's car, I think, with fairly...
By today's standards, not that much power, just over 200 horsepower.
Not super light, but it's light to drive.
And you can, in the right way, you can almost take liberties with it and it won't bite you.
So yeah, a fabulous thing.
So I'm very lucky to have found a good one, because unfortunately they did,
because I'm interested in the numbers, actually, that they sold so many more of those than the later ones,
which surprises me really, but they obviously did become very inexpensive and weren't looked after properly and so on.
But yeah, a fabulous thing.
And anybody who has more than one Porsche should try and find one of those.
Fabulous insight, fabulous insight. Thank you, Graham.
And Graham, actually, also, you had one when it was new as well, didn't you?
Sorry, thank you.
Yeah, I had one, so without being boring, I had one back in 2004, which was a couple of years old, exactly like that.
2.7, and it was the Porsche that I kept the longest, and the Porsche we'd done the most miles in,
and somehow it just felt absolutely right to go back to it.
And as soon as I drove that car, I was back in 2004, and not in any way disappointed,
despite having had some really lovely Porsches, all of which, because no one car does everything.
That's the thing. I think we probably all agree they've all got something that makes them just that little bit more special in certain circumstances,
but overall, if you're only going to have one, then I only want to have one, because otherwise,
spend half your life saying, well, shall I take that one?
And I get having more than one, but yeah, I just think it's become incredibly relevant,
and I'm sad that they don't make them now, to be honest.
As good as the 718s are, and the 981s, and all of them, they're all fabulous,
but kind of almost think that if they were able to make something like that,
yeah, they'd have to make the interior a bit more special and so on.
You know, I understand that.
Are there enough people out there who really want a proper driver's car?
I wonder if there are, that's the only thing.
It's kind of going the wrong way at the moment, isn't it?
So try and find what you like and keep it.
That's the thing. Sorry, Mark.
It's fabulous insight, and if we take park values for a little bit,
and just consider, like, reputationally among the enthusiast sphere,
which is very much the crew here tonight.
Reputationally, you'd argue that the 986 in particular is on a crest of a wave.
So many people love that car, certainly more than I've seen for a good few years,
and I think that's part of the charm, as Graham alluded to.
It's for what the car doesn't have rather than what it does.
People looking for old kicks in a way.
Yeah, I mean, it's a relatively simple sort of concept,
executed tremendously well.
And now that, certainly everyone in this room, I suspect,
and more widely, I think that's growing amongst the sort of general car enthusiast world.
I think relevance was the word that Graham used,
and so we want to have something that we could drive that's fun,
that is relevant actually on the roads that we've got,
and, you know, so something smaller, lighter, simple, but strong works
across so many different areas.
Yeah, it's a shame.
It would be brilliant if someone sort of came out with that again.
I mean, for us, but whether there is a wider market or not for that
and whether that could work in today's legislation or whatever, I don't know.
Yeah, well, this is it.
Just like, please don't rest on it anymore.
Let's just have really lovely factory examples.
But as the saying goes, 70% of all porches are still on the road today.
You could argue that that number percentage might be higher,
perhaps if it wasn't for the 986, we've just under 200,000 made.
Again, I think Graham made the point where the prices of them kind of went,
there was a lot of them taken away.
The reality is, and you guys here at Paragon have been much better placed to comment on this,
but they are at a certain value, the first generation.
The difference between a good and a bad boxer to buy contextualised against, say, a 9-11,
monetarily isn't so big a jump.
But if you buy a bad one, the cost to make that good boxer is massive.
The £40,000 986.
That's a joke, a joke, a joke.
It costs the same, doesn't it, to, you know, if it was a £200,000 GT2 or whatever,
it costs the same to work on a boxer.
So, yeah, obviously if you, you know, they haven't got,
the prices haven't appreciated to the level that you can restore a 986 yet.
Can't be far off, do you reckon?
Well, I'm sure it will come, definitely will come.
Yeah, it's, you know, so, you know, I think Graham bought his car about a year ago
and we haven't sold another 986 since, I don't think.
So that's how rare, you know, good examples come in here.
We sell more 987s and obviously more 981s and 718s, you know, it's easier.
But we, you know, we can do some reconditioning on them,
but it's not, you know, it doesn't work.
The equation doesn't work for us to restore any boxers at this stage.
I mean, you know, as a case in point, I mean Lee and I have been out in my 986 today.
Now that car could never be sold through here to one of you guys
because not because it's green inside.
I almost got in there fast enough.
And the over revs to be fair.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, nice down change, wasn't it?
But, and the reason, you know, it's a good car.
Well, I think it's a good car, it works, you know.
Yeah, I mean, literally little things, little things will add up to,
by the time we'd prepped that car, it would be about 10,000 pounds
over what its retail value would be.
So, you know, I mean, it just doesn't make sense.
And yet it's still, you know, a good car.
Obviously unfortunate doing what I do that, you know, the car came in in part exchange
and was at a value that made sense to me.
And, you know, obviously I can work on it a bit in the workshops myself
and all those sorts of things.
And it's not beautiful, but it's not, you know, it is quite a different thing.
I think we'd all agree, anyone that's seen it, to the one that's directly behind us
belongs to Graham over there.
You know, but that's the casting point.
For most people that's not a car, that's not a car that we would want to, you know,
I'd want to sell to someone that didn't know, I'd give them the list of stuff
that they would be looking at in the next couple of years, you know.
So that's just the way it is.
Do you think, if they continue to become more appreciated,
that the power of the first thing which people obsess over
will mean that the 2.5-litre car will be the one that people want
or will the fact that, you know, a glass rear window,
a six-speed 3.2-S is just much better, will that be,
will that become the 9.6 to have, do you think?
Great question.
If it was me, and I could find, you know, first six-month car,
you know, with hardly any options on it, pastoral yellow or something like that.
P registrations.
Yeah, P registration, that would really appeal to me as a sort of collector.
I think if it was going to be your driving car,
you'd probably want to go in maybe three years into 9.6 or something like that.
They did okay with them.
Yeah, okay.
So there's the collector versus the driver, yeah.
Driver, yeah, okay.
I don't think you need the S.
I think Grown's car is 2.7.
Yeah, yeah, Grown.
You only need the S if you need to keep up with the 2.7 being driven by Grown.
Or you need a 2.7 because then there's more scope for an engine swap,
could we bring you in to keep just for a little chat if you're comfortable to
and to share as much as you care.
Yeah, I know you discussed it briefly on our much radio before,
but it's worth a reminder because it's epic.
You were saying earlier that it doesn't make sense to restore a 986.
That doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it, of course.
It doesn't make sense for a power unit to restore a 986.
I probably do own the most over-invested 986 in the country.
That's ringing.
No, it's for the key change.
So what have I done to mine?
I didn't buy a power unit car.
I bought a car that I, with hindsight, probably shouldn't have bought
and have done absolutely everything to it.
Center Gravity completely redid the suspension,
which has really brought out the best of the chassis
and really sort of highlights how good that chassis is.
Ultimately, Porsche were building a sports car
and they absolutely did build a sports car.
I don't think they diluted the DNA of it being a sports car
in the pursuit of a price point or a different demographic
that they were potentially targeting.
Mine's got the later glass roof.
I've got 987 seats in it.
I've even sort of wired up heated seats.
I've almost sort of pretty much done everything on it,
which is a little bit ridiculous.
But actually, I think relevance, as Graham said, is the key point
because it depends on what...
So relevance can be the daily traffic that we drive in.
I daily drive mine.
I do about 200, 250 miles a week.
Relevance can also be a road trip to Italy.
It can be a weekend in Wales.
But on the two-hour drive here this evening,
the traffic that I was sitting in, the road conditions,
I could rev it up to 5,000, 6,000 RPM and have fun.
Yes, you can go in by a 5,000, 986 Boxster,
and I would urge everyone not to go and find a better one.
The good news is that so many of them are being broken
that parts are readily available.
You don't have to go to an OPC and buy new parts for them.
And so if you're even remotely handy,
you can keep one on the road relatively affordably.
Clearly, if you go to a specialist,
you're going to be paying specialist rates,
but you're going to be getting specialist attention
to get the car where it should be.
But I do think that if you can get a really good 986 2.7,
you will have an incredible amount of fun on the road.
And that's exactly what I'm experiencing in daily driving mine.
And yes, it's cost me a bit of money,
but actually in the grand scheme of things,
it's still a relatively little amount of money
for the amount of Porsche fun that I'm having.
I suppose actually what you've proven,
and we're all very grateful
because it means that no one else has to do it,
and to your point earlier about context
and relevance of the Boxster today in 2025,
is that it's actually a really good British Porsche.
We love a drop top, we buy more convertibles
than they do in mainland Europe
because we have some nice days,
you can pop the top up and down,
and the size of the thing and the way they ride
means it's a great car to use in the UK year round.
Yes, and a lot of them had MO30 suspension retrofitted onto them
because back in the day,
it was a really cheap suspension upgrade
that was available from Porsche.
I think it was about 750 pounds or thereabouts
for springs, dampers and roll bars,
so loads of people put them on.
But actually I've put my car back onto MO29
to give it a bit more ride height,
give it a bit more compliance with some coney dampers,
but the way it goes down are horrible roads in the UK.
I mean, Lee, you've sat in it.
The way it handles and the way it goes down a British B road
is absolutely fantastic,
and you can be sitting at four, five, 6,000 RPMs
and the exhaust is howling,
but you're only doing 40, 50 miles an hour
and you're not at risk of causing any trouble.
A crucial aspect of sports car driving in the modern age,
to be honest, that we're looking for.
But here's the thing as well with values,
that with that, if you look at the whole four generations
of the Boxster, there's such huge overlap in values
between 986, 987,
and I'm sure we've all done it sitting on
what will no doubt be the nine-works marketplace,
but if you try and find a very good 986,
which one might pop up, I think one or two,
from memory I've popped up in the last 18 months,
this being one of them,
then if you stretch the budget, you're looking into a 987,
if you think, well, I just, you know,
just stretch a little bit more,
and before you know it, you're in a 718 GTS 4-liter,
and you can really kind of get carried away
that kind of quickly really,
but we'll segue therefore into 987,
because as we said, there is like grand overlap.
For you guys here at Paragon and the cars you see
coming into the workshop,
in terms of like the underpinnings of the car,
you know, is there a great difference
in terms of, you know, build quality and whatnot?
Yeah, I think they moved on quite considerably
in terms of build quality and refinement and stuff.
I mean, suspension obviously moved on vastly.
Obviously, as you went up through the generations,
they increased the size of wheels as well,
which you had to compensate for.
Overall, I mean, in terms of their reliability and everything,
I mean, they've been pretty fantastic really,
they're of the age now where a lot of them can need,
a lot of money spent on them if they haven't had it done,
whether it be the coolant systems and suspensions and stuff,
but overall, it's a great platform, the 987.
It seemed that the, I mean, I think most people
preferred the interior of the later car
when at the time, you know, when 987 superseded 986.
The cars themselves, yeah, they always never cease to amaze me
or never used to cease to amaze me
when I was jumping from one generation of Porsche Boxer
to the next one and I'd be thinking,
well, this car's been so good, how can they improve upon this?
And yet you'd get an improved sort of refinement
and an improved ride and, you know, more performance
and all this sort of stuff.
But now, I think my, as with, I think,
all of our appreciations of these cars as time goes on,
I mean, sometimes I'm not actually searching
for some of those things anymore.
And, you know, I'm actually, along with many of us,
I think here, sort of looking back at some other things
and finding relevance in the fact that, you know,
the first one was a bit smaller and all that sort of stuff,
but 987, great, great, great platform.
Obviously, we've got two quite distinct generations there,
whereas with the first car, it was small,
there were small changes really.
You know, the move to the direct injection engines
in that second generation car, you know,
that rules out a lot of worries for people
that were brought up with scares about, you know,
IMS bearings and, you know, all that sort of stuff.
And he's quite a different thing.
In most regards, when I say different,
in most regards, that means better between Gen 2 and Gen 1,
but you do lose some things as well
in that those first cars had a little bit more character,
whether the risk-reward thing is worth it for an individual,
well, that's a separate issue.
And again, it comes down to, you know,
how you bought the thing in the first place, probably.
But, yeah, again, it was a great car.
It was seen to be, I think, you know, one of the big things was,
obviously, the changing style or whatever,
there had been such a backlash
and it had gained so much momentum at that point
with the whole Fried Egg headlamp thing
and all that sort of stuff,
that something that was a bit closer to, you know,
the sort of classic 911 round lights or whatever
or maybe even sort of showed a bit more of the Carrera GT
kind of did help
and moved the game on for Porsche and kept them selling.
But I'm interested to know those numbers as well.
That's, yes, amazing.
I think another big leap as well
was the introduction of the PDK gearbox
on the second generation as well.
Yeah, it's huge, isn't it?
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely huge.
Well, that is interesting
because with the Tiptronic before on 987.1
and indeed 986, not too many of them,
most people have gone for, like,
the quintessential sports car setup
has been said to earlier on with Open Top manual.
Yeah.
Tiptronics were quite rare,
but PDK, there was a lot more of a popular choice.
I don't know about that rareness thing, though.
I mean...
I think the PDK in both 997 and 987
was a performance option, wasn't it?
The car with the PDK was quicker than the manual car,
whereas Tiptronic was always slower.
So I think that that was a big thing.
It was probably, you know,
the double clutch system is completely different
to driving a car with a torque converter.
So in the early days, people had a Tiptronic
because they almost had to have the Tiptronic.
Either they're driving or the license or whatever,
but PDK was suddenly appealed to people that wanted to go fast.
You know, it was...
Yeah.
Yeah.
Very few...
People that had Tiptronics early on
were the people that lived in central London
and just couldn't bear to have the aching leg
of a clutch in heavy traffic sort of thing.
So...
But PDK just opened it up.
And I think most of the salesmen in the main dealers
were pushing it quite heavily.
Yeah, interesting.
Over...
Overpricing.
Yeah, it wasn't.
Yeah, it was.
Overcurry, Ned and Toby and Nick and I
were discussing the engines in the 987 generation,
Gen 1 and Gen 2, and Nick as an owner
and Toby as well commented on how those engines
are particularly happy for some tuning
just to open up a bit of like linearity
with the power delivery, Nick.
Was that fair, do you want to...?
Yeah.
Yeah, so on...
It's not the box streets that came in our week.
We did some fettling, didn't we, chaps?
Yeah.
So she's had a Stage 2 remap,
BMC panel filter and a slightly bigger ball,
PSE exhaust system put on,
which is probably good for about 20 horsepower,
but the torque curve is just epic.
And I remember Pete saying to me,
we've got to do a Stage 2 remap.
That's what the DFI responds really, really well to.
Do I think it's demonstrably quicker?
No.
Do I think that it's more fun to drive
and I've got a much more linear torque curve
and there's no flat spots?
Absolutely.
Has petrol consumption suffered?
No.
They both struggled to do 300 miles on a 55-litre tank.
It's such a nice car to drive now,
so when other people have followed my lead
and had their DFI's tweaked,
they're all really enjoying it.
That's what Toby said with his RS60.
Thanks, mate.
Yeah, Toby said with his RS60,
it just shows that that engine is kind of very clearly held back
and just that remap and fetal just really unlocks that.
I'd be interested to know,
has anyone else gone down a similar route in the room?
I can't make it.
No, Nick's the pioneer.
Nick reckons that my car's been mapped
just because I was too close to his rear bumper
on the way up to Bista.
Yeah, any other 987 owners in the room
are happy to share some light on their ownership experience?
Just on the RS60 thing,
that's an interesting car, isn't it?
I mean, it's quite highly regarded
within the Nine Works Collective, I think, isn't it,
from the couple that have been owned.
But the engine's quite interesting as well.
We were talking about it,
Jamie and anyone in your car, weren't we?
When the first gen 987 went to 3.4, the S before the DFI,
which was also a 3.4,
that engine, that little however long that was for,
a year or two,
is actually quite a cool,
theoretically more reliable and quite powerful engine.
And I think in the RS64 mode,
especially, which has that lovely interior,
that's quite a special little car.
I so underrated that car.
I was personally absolutely in love with it.
The fond memories of following Tobi's RS60 round island,
and I've said on the podcast before,
Lee with his Nuntun 2 GT3 on the last night
was caught googling RS60 spiders,
and that really does say all you need to know,
that car was the perfect car for that trip.
And likewise, this year, Jason,
following your stunning 987,
as we retraced the Targa Florio route,
I just think that the car aesthetically is aged so well.
Still a lovely, lightweight,
pacey, nimble sports car,
nicely paired back compared to modern metal.
It's just such a fantastic Porsche proposition, to be honest.
Fantastic.
That's your car as well, isn't it Alex?
That's what you, your Boxster is a 3.4, 9.07S?
Yeah, yeah, so 2008 3.4S.
Which was, yeah, just before the move to the .2, isn't it?
I love that, that engine.
It's got this, my car's really simple.
It's got manual gearbox, sports exhaust,
and that's all I want from the car really.
It feels on the road, you know, similar size to the 986,
but it's got that extra bit of power,
300bhp, which we know is a sweet spot on British roads.
I just, yeah, I think that.
I love that car.
And it's all, it is all you need.
Like, I'm guilty of it.
Like, you turn up somewhere and meet new people
and they say, what have you got?
And you say, just a Boxster, you know, that's what everyone says,
but it is all, it is all you need.
You flip it and it says, what do you need?
Just a Boxster.
That's to be part of NineWorks,
or to be out having fun on the road.
It's a British car.
Yeah.
Cool.
We used to turn up to things like this
and we'd speak to people and,
what have you got?
Oh, I've only got the Boxster.
Idiot, yeah.
But now it's, we all see here and we go, damn shit.
That's what I should be doing in my life.
That's what, this is what people are thinking.
That we should be like you.
Whereas five, 10 years ago, it was the other way around.
People would think that you're the pauper.
You're the idiot.
You can't afford a 9-11 or whatever.
Or you can't afford more than one 9-11.
God, help you.
I mean, that's cool.
But now we're all thinking, you're the star here.
You're the star of the show.
Because you've got the one, just the one car.
And that is, at the end of the day, all you need.
And what you, just a quick point where you said about
the Boxsters improving,
maybe they have improved,
but as we're all proving tonight,
I don't think they are improving in our eyes,
because we'd much be rather driving the 986s
and the 987s or the 981s.
I know you just bought a 7184 litre,
and I would imagine that's going to be an absolutely amazing car.
But most of us here, I think,
would rather have, if we was asked, had the older ones.
So yes, they have improved,
but not so much in everybody's eyes, I think.
I think, yeah, if you look objectively,
what would you like from your sports car experience,
whether like Porsche or not,
but certainly within a Porsche context.
So something that's lightweight, nimble, agile,
revvy, smaller footprint, bereft of tech,
great soundtrack, and all of those,
it's Boxster, Boxster, Boxster, Boxster.
And the 7184 litre, which I'd love to come on to shortly,
I mean, that is such a cracking car.
And in a car that's produced literally alongside the 992,
same production line at Soofenhausen,
and it's not got computer screens everywhere,
it's not got the cinema in the middle of the dashboard,
and again, the smaller footprint wheelbase.
That is with a really awesome emotive engine,
and that 4-litre is the biggest capacity engine
in a Porsche sports car outside of a GT car.
You can't get it in a 911.
It's a cracking thing that is.
And you just look at that and you go,
we're not talking about investment and whatnot,
just as a car that in the future,
we're going to go, wow, did they really make that?
And made it for five years, may I add, as well.
Really cool.
Keep laughing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
If I may, on behalf of everybody here,
across the panel, off the top of your head,
quick fire, each person has to say which Boxster model
doesn't matter which generation that you would choose.
I'd personally, after that passenger ride in Mark's car today,
I'd go for the V10 Boxster.
I'd go for a 981 GTS.
Fantastic. What a soundtrack.
I think the same as Mark as well.
He just can't beat that GTS engine.
Yeah, that's really hard to argue against.
I get, I...
That's that.
Yeah, that's probably one of the best all-rounder,
which is kind of the raison d'etre, I guess, for Boxster.
This is why I went first.
Yeah, I'm still, I'm thinking whilst I'm waffling.
But, you know, actually, because a friend of mine's got
a 987 Spyder that might not be too far away,
and he might be a near shot,
and because he eulogises about it so much,
and because I actually did drive that car back to back
with his sort of brother in the range at that time,
and I thought, and I really did like it.
I think a 987 Spyder could actually be,
could be it if it was, you know,
a bit more special occasions kind of thing,
although Nick would say it's not a special occasion car,
I'll take it whenever, wherever.
But, you know, yeah, 987 Spyder.
Yeah, Boxster Spyder.
I'll call it a Boxster Spyder for you.
Max?
I think I'm boringly probably going to have to agree.
I mean, I have been lucky enough to drive a 987 Spyder,
Boxster Spyder, and it really was fantastic.
And it did feel quite special, actually.
But I don't think it's a car for me to own, necessarily.
I think to own it would be 981 GTS.
And, you know, at the time that I bought mine,
it was usefully cheaper
than a GTS.
But I have made a few tweaks to try and make it a bit more GTS,
if you like.
But I think 981 GTS would be the one for me, ideally.
Cracking, Andy?
981 Spyder.
God, we've all gone 981, hasn't we?
Well, yeah, I mean, I think we should include 718 with 981,
because with the 981 there was, yeah,
the expansion of the model line-up,
the introduction of GTS into that stable as well.
Is the 981 generation, question for everyone,
is that peak Boxster, or is it 718?
From a sales point of view, when the phone rings,
what's the demand, what are people asking for?
Good question.
I think it's a very, very easy car to get behind,
because it answers so many questions at a price level,
which is really quite appealing at this time.
As we record, I think 981 platform is a brilliant thing for us.
You know, it's got the best, probably, the best soundtrack for most people.
It's not going to scare anyone by being too old, or whatever.
It's modern enough inside for everyone to feel comfortable with,
and even, you know, think, I've got something a bit special here.
Yeah, it's, if we move on to, you know, 718, GTS, and all that sort of stuff,
but, you know, we're moving to a slightly different price point again,
and that's overlapping with a lot of other cars,
and so it makes it, it's less clear cut.
You know, if you want one of those, then absolutely fantastic,
and that's the correct choice for you.
But for people that come in and don't know really what they want,
an easy, an easy way for me to keep Weetabix on the table
is to point them in the direction of 981, yeah.
You can still go back to the original roots of the 981,
and it's more to the bridge, whereas the 718 is too far removed from the original concept.
Well, I guess if we're talking, I mean, 718, obviously, we're talking about,
we're getting into four-cylinder cars and that sort of stuff now,
so that's a stretch for some people.
You know, in terms of the way that they drive,
well, if you've driven lots of them, then you can feel how things have developed,
you know, through the years and all that sort of stuff,
but I mean, I don't think, I think, you know, that car,
we've got 718, 4-litre here, and I think, you know, that car,
you can feel where it came from, but, yeah, I mean, bloody hell,
it is 20 years of development in there.
Yeah, I mean, I think mostly it's a price point thing
that it's bangs per buck, 981, you are getting just tremendous value at this point in time, I think.
But isn't it a testament for the 718 that people are still buying them?
People are still buying them.
The 4-litre GTS, when you could afford the red one, you could afford the silver one,
you could afford a hell of a lot of 911s, but people are buying the 718 Boxster.
Oh, yeah, absolutely, yeah.
The 4-litre aside, they're even buying the 718, not the 4-litre,
but the people that are buying the 4-litre, they could buy a hell of a lot of 911,
but they're choosing to buy the 718 Boxster 4-litre, and then, again, for the GTS, again.
I mean, that's a lot of money for that, hell of a lot of money.
Yeah, I mean, it does show the basic brilliance of the concepts, you know,
and it's as simple as that, it is astoundingly capable.
Just a thought on the younger generation buying cars,
do you get many coming here wanting a Boxster or...?
Yeah, I mean...
And I guess which generation of car?
Yeah, I mean, you might...
I guess if I didn't work within this industry,
I might think that the youngsters will be coming in wanting the youngest,
latest, fastest, most technologically advanced version of whatever it is that they could afford.
But that actually isn't necessarily the case, and that's...
I mean, that's very heartening for someone like me, you know, because...
Yeah, it is really surprising.
There isn't... I can't give you a sort of generalist answer to that,
because there's probably not enough data, because frankly, we're all about our age,
for the most part, but...
Yeah, sorry, Nick's waving at me.
I'm waving, because when we were at the meet on Saturday,
there were two members of the Driven Not Hidden Collective.
So Charlotte is quite a young person, a lovely grey Boxster,
and she absolutely loves that car, she drives it everywhere with the top down.
And then Guy Felton's eldest, Grace?
Grace, yeah.
I've got it right, I've got brownie points.
She loves that car that she's got with her other half, Michael,
and I think they travel all the way to Scotland to buy it with private sale.
Probably not a huge amount of money, and they're having huge fun on it,
and I don't know if you noticed, but I went over and had a good scour over it,
and that's the heartening thing that you'll see in the younger generation coming through,
and they're actually... that's attainable, seven or eight grand.
Hopefully they don't catch a cold, or they treat it like you treat yours,
and say, well, I know it's not perfection,
but I'm going to drive the wheels off it and just enjoy it.
The other comment I was going to make was when you talk about the comparisons
between the three generations, everyone's a winner,
because if you asked me to describe the three spiders, and I've driven all three,
Ballerina, 987, Asbo, 981, Incredible Hulk, 718,
he's one better than the other.
No, they're just different, it's like different heat strengths of curry
to get it back to this evening.
Call Mabuna and Vindaloo, right?
But they're not necessarily better,
and if you asked me which one I would sell on which one I wouldn't,
there's no way the 987's leaving my garage.
Yeah.
Boom, drops the mic.
I think one of the things that the 981 represents,
I remember, albeit it was Cayman,
but I went to the Reading dealer launch of the 981 Cayman when it came out,
and I had my 987 that I bought from Jamie then.
And one of the things that struck me immediately was the improvement in quality
in cabin architecture as a big kick on,
whether you think it's a prettier car from the outside or not.
I think inside it is a big step on,
and if you are having it as your only Porsche sports car,
it does feel like a more modern car,
and you might think in a 987 you've got to have extended leather,
in a 981 I've got a plastic dash in mine,
and actually it doesn't really bother me,
because the quality is that much better.
There's a lot more storage in a 981.
A lot more storage.
In a Cayman, definitely.
Yeah.
A 718 is almost like a Gen 2 981, isn't it, in some respects?
Yeah.
It hasn't really changed that much, I don't think,
and that's one of the things which I think makes the 981 a bit of a sweet spot.
Since being a Boxster owner, I ended up in a Boxster,
what's that group as you do, of course,
and there are people in that who've sort of been through them all,
like a lot of you guys have with 911s,
and they've got opinions on which is the best one,
having owned all of them,
and some of those people like 911 owners are coming back,
and where that conversation ended up,
in the time that I've been in there, was 981 GTS,
and there are people who've been all the way through,
and that's what they've come back to.
It's great to get this sort of insight
that can only be delivered with authority from you guys and girls as owners as well.
It's so awesome for everybody listening at home to get this, really.
I guess it was quite funny when the 981 GTS was around,
and again, it was a time where pretty much any Porsche that was new
was kind of looking to go crazy,
and I can think of one or two people that were garaging them,
particularly when the 718 came out as a four-cylinder car,
and it was the last six-cylinder Boxster Cayman,
and obviously the four-litre came along,
and chat on that from a great height as it goes.
They are just fantastic cars,
and exactly as you said, Max,
possibly a bit more of a maturity of the platform almost,
and a lot of them actually, 981 and 718, are lavishly specced,
a lot of them, so there's great choice out there,
and great cars to be had.
I think it does a bit like the RS60.
It does respond well to a special edition, doesn't it, a Boxster?
I think the Boxster 25, you know, I didn't like a lot of people.
I know you, Andy, when it first came out,
I thought, mind sure about those JDM wheels and the gold detailing,
but actually I've warmed to it over time,
and actually I look at those now, and I think they're actually really nice.
And you know, I know it's mechanically a GTS,
it is a trim, it's a trim and trinkets edition, isn't it?
But it is numbered, which is nice,
so you can point that out at cars and coffee.
I think that's a nice car, really nice.
So I think it was yourself earlier, Max,
when you were saying that it's basically quintessential sports car,
is the Boxster layout and concept and platform.
Before we finish with one or two questions from you guys in the collective,
it'd be nice to know up front here, and this is a really crucial question.
Does the Boxster story really end now?
With the next one, I know there's talk of Porsche still going to do an ice engine and whatnot,
but we've been told the next Boxster will be fully electric.
For us as enthusiasts, can you get excited about it?
No.
You buy it for the engine, don't you?
It's the engine and then the rest of the car develops from the engine.
No, I don't think so.
It's always been an emotive purchase from the heart, isn't it?
Personally, no.
I'm sure they'd make a great job of it and they'd be really efficient at all.
But no, I don't think so.
You can't really think about putting the hood down and your electric Boxster
and hearing that noise for a tunnel, can you?
Well, I mean, this is it with the recent news that Porsche have patented tunnel mode.
So I wonder if there's a, yeah, there's going to be a fact, it's some sort of gimmick,
but is that allied to an EV?
I hope the car's up running on the same batteries as our podcast tonight, by the way.
I'm saying no, quickly saying no, but I guess if every single car out there was battery,
if we would, you know, if it actually banned, if there was no more fuel,
then it might be the best of the segment.
Then maybe yes, but all the time you can still buy a flat six engine car.
The answer would be no for me.
I personally have said previously with the videos really that that EV Boxster
is not just crucial for Porsche, I think it's crucial for that entire sports car sector
because if there is an engineering firm that will get that right, it's Porsche really.
And actually sitting next to where the director of chassis at Porsche,
this was at the GTS launch last year.
And he said, we are genuinely really excited to bring this car to market.
And he said, I'm not a marketing guy.
I don't need to tell you this, but we are really excited.
But obviously it's been delayed since.
So going to be intriguing.
Is there anybody here that is excited about the electric Boxster?
Anybody in the room?
Oh, there's a couple.
Do you want to have a little word on it, Jason?
I'm quite an EV fan, I'm going to drive on every day.
I've been looking at all the EV performance options.
I want one to be a lighter weight vehicle that's going to be a little bit more nimble on its toes.
I'm just waiting for somebody to build the car that I want.
So I'm really excited to try it.
I could easily consider the four cylinder Boxsters as well.
So I'm not as hung up on powertrain as perhaps others.
I just want to see what they make.
Yeah, great point.
It feels like cruel context, isn't it?
To reference the four banger 718 in the context of EV being better than.
But, you know, I think it does need to be mentioned and defended.
Because a lot of people don't like it.
Most people don't like it.
I think if you only have a half hour, I know you had one, MP.
Yeah, well, I'll just go on.
And I think on a 20-minute test drive, I think you could quite easily not like it.
I had one for five days from four centre leads when they were repainting in front of my can.
So I drove it back from leads back to my house.
And as I got home that afternoon, I thought, the doubters are right.
It's not for me.
But five days later, when I drove it back up to leads, I didn't want to give it back.
I really, really, really liked it.
When it was a brand new car, it was a two and a half litre S, black, silver wheels, lovely.
A PDK, I thought the thing was, I really, really, really enjoyed it.
I even got, you know, enjoyed the sound that it made.
It was kind of different sounds.
It's kind of fun.
And the power delivery.
I'm not sure what the power is on a two and a half litre.
They frayed 45 on that car.
The thing went like a train.
It was great.
Point to point.
Yeah, they are, I mean, when they first came out, everyone went, oh, that's different.
Oh, we don't like that.
And, and then I had the same experience as you pretty much, not quite the same time scale,
but a distance was with a couple of miles in a day.
And I thought, wow, this is, I mean, it was, it just felt spectacularly good.
It was spectacularly efficient as well when I wanted it to be and blisteringly quick.
And didn't you drive Nils?
However, yeah, yeah.
Still going through warranty, isn't it?
Itching to say this, but yes, my first, my first experience of one of these cars.
Over to you, Neil.
Let me just give a little bit of context.
I went to the launch, I went to the launch of Porsche's London.
First time I've ever gone to a launch and bought a car there and then I bought the car there and then and I bought it in the launch colour.
Yes, I was that person.
I was that person that bought it in lava orange, the launch colour at the launch evening.
Very proudly bought it along to Paragon and Jason said, can I have a go?
Yes, of course you can, mate.
So he took it down the road, bought it back and I got my money, a full refund about month to six weeks later because the engine blew up.
And the last person to drive it spiritually, if you like, was...
Porsche gave me a full, actual full, no cripple refund because the engine blew up.
Anything you do say, mate, give me an evidence.
That's the mic drop.
Yeah, yeah.
I tell you what, what I will say is a really good point is you've mentioned, Max, just kind of before we close up.
Earlier this year, I think it was or late last year, drove the Cayman T admittedly the tin top version of the car we're talking about tonight.
Loved it.
Manual and I think, you know, if you get like a manual bucket seats car, I mean, they're like rare, rare little things.
Rare is probably the wrong word, but just like really cool off the beaten track sports cars that I just thought I absolutely loved that.
Loved it.
I kind of feel like that's a spiritual successor to my little 996 in a way.
I think I could own one.
Loved it.
Yeah, fantastic thing and seven, one, eight point to point.
It's so quick, so quick.
Just before we finish, because I appreciate times getting on.
Are there any questions that anybody would like to put to the Paragon team or any statements they'd like to make?
We need to ask you about your Boxster racing.
Yeah, okay.
We're going to bore everyone.
But yeah, that thing was so awesome.
And that is kind of the quintessence of what a Boxster can be because it was class three of the Boxster Cup run by Porta Club GB.
It was at Brands Hatch.
It's a good initiative, wasn't it?
It was a great thing.
Brilliant.
Brilliant.
And that series to this day is, I mean, I think it's never been more popular than now.
And class three that I was in, which was on road legal tires.
So, you know, I could have driven that car to the track.
It was just so awesome.
It was so awesome.
And yeah, just unleashed everything that that platform can give you, obviously bereft of anything inside by way of weight.
But yeah, I think, you know, not until you're going three abreast into Paddock Hill Bend, do you realize just what those things can do?
And probably more than what you realize.
Yeah, awesome.
Awesome.
But that was the road car.
Yeah.
It's the great thing about it.
Any questions or any statements?
Anyone else blowing up any Boxsters or?
It's always final where.
Yeah.
I've got a question.
Where are people on Spider RS?
I asked this because I mean, I know you've talked about it lots on the pod, Lee.
I know Nick has just grabbed the mic off and he nearly took his arm off because he's got strong views on this, Kel Sprees.
I think that I would really enjoy that car.
And when I think about ways that I'd like to experience that engine, you know, all the different great cars that that's in.
I think I'd really like that in a Spider RS.
And I mean, I can't afford it.
I'm not about to go and buy one.
But when I'm browsing the marketplace, I think, oh, yeah, I like them.
Where's everyone else?
Is anyone driven one?
I take the same view.
So Lee and I, the yellow one that you had from Reading RS should be a race, a road derivative or a homogalation special of a race car.
Spider RS isn't GT4 RS is because there's a GT4 Cup car.
As a road car, it's fundamentally flawed because it hasn't got the talk that the standard four litres got.
So from the get go, you're already you've already moved away from the roundabout and the RS is then giving chase, which it will.
It will really in as a track car, it's too softly sprung.
So I'm not sure what it's trying to be.
But as a road car, it's not as good as, in my humble opinion, a 718 four litre, whether that be GT or Spider.
So it's a bit of a part spin raid, I think.
It would be my view.
I know my views been aired on the podcast previously, but I would just like to add a different slant and it it sows together what Graham said earlier on and what Sikib said as well.
Where, you know, the Boxster is a car that can do anything, go anywhere, be fun to drive at any speed.
And the RS, Spider RS is the complete antithesis of all that.
Its use case is extremely narrow.
So I've said I struggle with the RS thing, but it takes the Boxster in a completely different direction for me.
Any more for any more?
Not on the RS.
Have you said your thought on it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I haven't driven one.
I'd like to.
Well, I will say it's following Paul on the non-works road trips in the museum in October.
It's a great thing to look at.
Sounds awesome as well.
It's all I remember when driving.
Any other questions before we close up?
I've got one.
Okay.
Why is the Boxster called the Boxster?
Actually, funny enough, it was Mr. Sumter that corrected this on this one.
I think we discussed 25 years of the Boxster a few years ago.
So it's an amalgamation of, I can't remember what they call that.
Speedster and Roadster.
Speedster, yeah.
Roadster with a Boxer engine.
Exactly that.
Yeah.
Well answered.
Well answered.
So we'll say thanks as always to the incredible team here at Paragon for lavishing us with a splendid curry early on.
It really is such a fun evening, great to have us together.
Round of applause, absolutely.
Thank you very much everyone for coming.
And of course for sharing your insight on all things Boxster, such a welcome addition to the Porsche sports car line up there in 2026 will be celebrating 30 years.
Congratulations to everybody in the room that owns one and to everybody listening at home.
Thanks so much as well for making a great effort to come out tonight on a school night and listen to us blabber on about that fantastic mid-engine sports car.
As we said with Toby, it's amazing what people will do for a free curry, isn't it?
Thanks one and all.
Thank you.
A quick note to the listener.
Hopefully this actually recorded all of the bits that we've done tonight.
If it's not, it's going to be a bit curtailed and a short one.
So I do apologise.
Got it.
Thank you everyone.
Thank you.
Cheers.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thanks guys.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
About this episode
Celebrating 30 years of the Porsche Boxster, this episode dives deep into the history and evolution of Porsche's iconic mid-engine sports car. The hosts and guests share personal anecdotes, discuss the various generations of the Boxster, and explore its impact on the Porsche brand and sports car market. With insights from long-time enthusiasts and owners, the conversation touches on the Boxster's design, performance, and how it has become a beloved choice among drivers. The episode also considers the future of the Boxster, particularly with the upcoming electric model, sparking debates on its significance in the Porsche lineup.
Original notes
Through four generations from 986 to 718, the Boxster has been a huge success – we gathered a group of Boxster owners at Paragon Porsche to share memories of when the roadster with a boxer engine was first released, before discussing how the concept has evolved and what lies ahead as the Boxster adopts EV tech.
Thank you to Mark, Jamie, Jason and the Paragon team for hosting us and laying on what has become an annual tradition of curry, cars and podcast conversation.
Find your dream Porsche on the 9WERKS Marketplace: 9werks.co.uk/marketplace
Thanks to our friends heritagepartscentre.com for sponsoring this podcast, get up to 10% off your basket by entering the code ‘9WERKS10’ at the checkout on heritagepartscentre.com
‘9WERKS Radio’ @9werks.radio is your dedicated Porsche and car podcast, taking you closer than ever to the world’s finest sports cars and the culture and history behind them.
The show is brought to you by 9werks.co.uk, the innovative online platform for Porsche enthusiasts. Hosted by Porsche Journalist Lee Sibley @9werks_lee, and 911 owner and engineer Andy Brookes @993andy, with special input from friends and experts around the industry, including you, our valued listeners.
If you enjoy the podcast and would like to support us by joining the 9WERKS Driven Not Hidden Collective you can do so by hitting the link below, your support would be greatly appreciated.
9WERKS Radio : The Porsche and Car Podcast
Andy Brookes, Lee Sibley, Max Newman
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