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316: Wrong Part, Wrong Keys
316: Wrong Part, Wrong Keys
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About this episode
Delving into the ongoing challenge of wrong parts in automotive diagnostics, this episode explores real-world cases involving incorrect switches, control modules, and keys. The host shares insights on identifying the right parts using resources like RepairLinkShop.com and highlights the complexities of programming used modules and keys. Notable stories include troubleshooting a Nissan Altima window switch and a Toyota Prius integration relay issue that caused multiple system failures. The episode also discusses the difficulties with aftermarket keys and the importance of verifying part compatibility to avoid costly mistakes.
Topics:
wrong parts
control module programming
used modules
key programming
diagnostic resources
repairlinkshop.com
integration relay issues
case studies
aftermarket keys
automotive troubleshooting
This week on the show I share challenges with incorrect control modules and keys when doing mobile programming. I'll share some tips to finding the correct part numbers and if we can determine whether the used module will work or not. I'll also share a brief case study on a 2010 Prius that won't go into park.
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Welcome to the Automotive Diagnostic Podcast.
We're going to explore ways to sharpen our diagnostic skills, find learning resources, and hear from
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The link is in the show notes.
Hey, what's going on, Automotive World?
Welcome to another episode of the Automotive Diagnostic Podcast.
My name is Sean Tipping.
I'll be your host once again for this week's episode.
Thank you so much for joining me.
With me on the show this week, I'm going to talk about wrong parts a little bit.
I have mentioned this on the show before.
These previous episodes, of course, it's an ongoing battle that we face in the automotive
repair world, and if you're doing programming and keys, obviously it's going to affect
you there too, but I'll give you some of my current thoughts on it, some recent
things we've been battling with, and a couple case studies that I thought were
pretty interesting that who knows, maybe it'll run into something similar.
But like I mentioned, I've talked about wrong parts before, and you know, it's one thing
if you are in a repair shop and you are the one ordering the parts, you have a little
bit more control over what you're getting in the vehicle, but even then you may run
into a situation where your supplier is still getting you the incorrect parts, something
was labeled incorrectly, something was remanufactured incorrectly, or it's just
difficult to figure out what the correct component is, right?
We face a lot of challenges, but with the mobile side of things, we often run into
this because outside of keys and specific module situations, we're not really in
control of what part the shop got for said vehicle.
Now, we've somewhat trained some of our shops to at least check in with us to
say, hey, is this part going to work in this application, specifically with a
control module?
And of course, that in itself is challenging because really the best thing
that we can offer a lot of the time, especially when it's a used control
module, right?
They're replacing the PCM or body control module out of something as we'll
tell them, hey, you got to match the part number.
And that's really the only way that we can guarantee that this is going to
work because there's not a database out there for a vehicle to say,
this is the list of wrong part numbers that will work in this application,
right?
If you get something, the part number doesn't match on, let's just say a body
control module on something, it might work, right?
I've programmed plenty of modules that had different part numbers than the
original and I'm not talking just, you know, the last two letters are,
you know, a superseded number.
This is like a different part number, but it's actually worked in the
application, but that's a roll of the dice.
We have no idea whether that's going to work or not.
And again, there's not necessarily a database out there that's going to
tell you what is going to work in the wrong application.
So, and we tell shops in that situation too, like, Hey, if you get
the right part number and it's a quality module, we can make it work in X
situation.
If we can do a used module in that situation, of course, that's another
layer of complexity is even if you get the right one, can you make a
used module work in that particular application or not?
But if you get the wrong one, like, and that's the way you want to go, or
maybe that's the only thing you can find, that's a possibility too.
That's the closest one that you can get for this application.
We'll try it, but you're going to be paying us either way, because
we're not promising you that this is going to work.
And we will do the best on our end to make sure that our part
of it is done correctly.
But there's limitations there.
And we try to let the shops know that beforehand.
So they know what they're getting into.
But we run into it all the time, right?
And a lot of where this comes from is shops, you know, buying
parts from salvage yards, junk yards, eBay, you know, other
sources online, where there's some compatibility issues where
they'll list, Hey, this works for this application.
But in some cases, it's just, it's the same physical module,
meaning it's, it will plug in to said connectors on said car, but
it doesn't necessarily mean that it's right.
It might be, but it might not be.
Um, and some of these databases or references that you can use
online aren't terrible.
I mean, you can definitely use something like car dash parts.com.
And that's actually a pretty helpful resource to help you
figure out what module might belong in what application.
Now it's not 100%, right?
There's still going to be a margin of error there, but you
can use it and you can figure it out.
But where we see a big issue is, um, shops buying parts from
local salvage yards, and they're just like, yep, this
works in this application, when maybe it doesn't
necessarily, or it's real close, but there's certain
features that don't work in that body control module the
way that they're supposed to, or it just won't complete
programming because the Ford software doesn't like the part
number or the GM TLC doesn't like the part number of this
radio, the hardware numbers wrong.
So it's just going to kick it back.
And of course, okay, there are alternative methods to
get some things to work.
Yeah, but you're really getting into the weeds there.
So we run up against this a lot in module programming.
Now you can also use things like repair link shop.
And that's one of our biggest resources when we are trying
to determine, Hey, what is the correct part number for
this application?
Because sometimes you're thrust into a situation, maybe
vehicles come from another repair facility, maybe the
customer did some work, maybe it came from the auction
and you don't have the original module, right?
Of course, the easiest way is just to compare the
number on the module and get that same one.
But if you don't have the original, it's already been
replaced and you're either confident the one that's in
there is wrong, or you're wondering if the module or
part that is installed is incorrect.
You can use repair link shop.
And this is true for more than just control modules.
You can use it for all kinds of different parts.
And it's based off of the Vin and it's pretty
accurate as far as I found.
Now I was recently teaching a webinar for some folks in
Australia and unfortunately, if you're outside of the
US, it sounds like you can't use repair link shop.com.
So I apologize if that's you.
It is a nice resource to have if it's available.
But anyways, what it does is it links dealerships
basically to you and you can look up parts based
off of the Vin.
You get that factory part number for not only
control module, but you can even do it for keys
as well, which I found very helpful to try to
get the correct key, which we'll talk about a
little bit more here.
But when you have the current factory part number,
that's real helpful because then you can take that
number, obviously compared to what you have, but
you can do some searching online with that.
Now, a lot of times these numbers are the
newest version.
They've superseded others and that's a common
thing where you see a module.
It's got an older part number, but it's still
compatible with the one that you're working on.
And sometimes we'll use other websites that
sell factory parts like they'll be like a GM
online parts ordering.
And if you look up the control module you're
after, it'll have a list of superseded numbers
that fall under this new number.
And that might be a way to that, especially if
you're doing a used control module, you could
say, OK, well, at least this one's in the
list of superseded parts.
If you're working on Chrysler vehicles and
you're doing control modules, especially this
would apply to mainly engine control,
transmission control.
You can use their Fed World report that they
update frequently.
It's available free.
If you just Google that, you'll find it.
And that's been really helpful to determine
whether the correct hardware application is in
the vehicle we're working on, or if they're
doing a used control module that's out of
something else, is this hardware compatible
with the vehicle that it's being installed in?
Can I put the software that I need to into this
module and have it work in this application?
Right?
Because we run into that just a ton.
It definitely seems to be one of the more
common ones where there are so many different
hardware options for a Chrysler ECM that
physically will plug into the same car.
Right.
If you think about the GPEC two controllers,
the style of connector worked on a ton of
different applications, but that doesn't mean
that the hardware is the same across the board.
There are definitely situations where that's not
true, but that Fed World report will help
you dial in.
You can use some control F action and figure
out pretty quickly if what you're dealing
with will work in your application for GM
control modules.
If you look at the service number, because
there's there's going to be a hardware part
number, and then there's going to be a service
number that service number is the one that you
want to match.
And again, you can have the physical
hardware that plugs into the same module, but
you can have one out of a four cylinder, one
out of a six cylinder, and there's missing
drivers in that four cylinder module.
Now the service number is different from what
I've seen, but you can and you can change
the software, but it's not going to work
in that application.
You're not going to be firing those extra two
coils or injectors because the drivers don't
exist inside the PCM.
And so these are all, you know, battles that we
face when we're doing the control module
programming, especially doing used control module
programming, which is a service that we offer.
But there is some legwork behind it.
If you're going to try to find out, you
know, what is the correct number for this
application?
But like I said, RepairLinkShop.com, big resource.
You can use cartashparts.com.
It's actually a pretty helpful free resource as well.
Just be careful.
I wouldn't say it's 100% across the board
accurate, but it's it's pretty useful.
But those are our most frequent go-tos
when it comes to control modules.
Now for keys, keys are a whole nother animal.
We struggle with this quite often.
And this is one for us that we are directly the
ones that are ordering the part.
Now, figuring out what the correct key is for
that car in order to order it becomes the
challenge in a lot of cases.
Not only that, but when you order aftermarket
or refurb keys, sometimes the quality of said
keys can be an issue as well.
And we struggle with that.
And we've changed vendors that we've used
a couple of times.
We've been using Transponder Island as of
late, and I got to say really impressed with
the service, how quickly they can get keys to
you at a reasonable cost.
And they'll help you out if there's an issue.
There's other key suppliers where that is
definitely not the case.
And even within that, you know, we find some
issues with the keys like we've been using
ill-cos for a lot of our keys recently.
And they're pretty good, but every once in a
while you run into an issue with a key.
Same thing with a refurb, like if you get an
OEM refurb, ideally that should be your best
option.
I mean, besides buying brand new from the
dealer, I guess.
But even then we run into some issues here
and there, but even if the quality of the
key is OK, let's let's assume, OK, we got a
good quality key, you could still get the
wrong key, which is the point of this
episode is wrong parts.
And man, this really does seem to be an
ongoing issue when it comes to keys so much.
So I almost feel like the best way to do it is
if there's three different options or four
different options for said vehicle, just order
all of those keys and hopefully one of them
is going to work.
Now, of course, if it's a blade style one,
that gets tricky because like which one do
you cut first, but at least with a smart
key style, you can attempt the key.
I guess even then in that case, there are
keys that will lock once you attempt it.
I had that on a GM smart key.
There were two different FCC IDs.
This is before I knew to check the tire
pressure sensors for the frequency.
And if I would have done that, I would have
figured out that OK, these are two different
frequencies.
This is the key that I need to use.
But I tried the smart key that was the
wrong one for the car first.
The immobilizer portion of the smart key
worked, but the RF portion didn't because
it was the wrong frequency.
Unfortunately, that locked that key to that
car short of taking apart the board and
trying to unlock it.
I don't know if I could on that one.
There's tools that will do that on some.
That key's junk now.
And, you know, I wasted the cost of a
key and that whole job probably isn't
that profitable at that point, right?
And especially that that's why I've been
hesitant to do in the past because like
you order four keys for a car and those
three are oddball ones that you never see.
I mean, do you go through the hassle of
returning those?
I'm sure the key supplier doesn't like that.
Or do you just hang them on your wall at
your shop and then never use them because
it's for some European model that you're
never going to see in the U.S.
That's that's the challenge.
So getting the right key ahead of time.
We try our best.
We really do.
But there are so many things that go
wrong or you can get wrong.
And again, so there's some vehicles
where you have one option.
Right?
It's this is the key for this application
for this year.
Maybe button configuration is the only
thing that you have to pick from.
But there's cars where there are
several different options, especially
when it comes to the FCC ID, right?
This is something with key is in
Hyundai's that we battle with quite
often where they'll be two or three
different key options and the physical
key is the same.
The buttons are the same.
The frequency is the same, right?
So 315 versus 433.
But there are different FCC options.
And I've talked about it on the show
before.
I wish there was a way that you could
just check the FCC output of a key,
but it's not really possible because
it's not the ID is not transferred in
the data transmission of the key
itself.
It just operates differently.
There'll be different amplitudes.
And the way the message is transferred
is going to be different based on the
FCC ID that it has.
Now, obviously the car can recognize
one versus the other, but there's no
tool out there that has a database of
all FCC IDs that will spit it out.
If somebody eventually creates that,
I will buy it tomorrow.
But as far as I know, such thing
doesn't exist at the moment.
So where I'm going with that is if
you have a working key and it
doesn't have that number stamped on
it somewhere and some do, right?
So then, of course, you would
just use that number and when
you're ordering.
But not all of them do.
So how do you know?
Again, we can go to repairlinkshop.com.
We can use that part number and
we can order keys that way.
I've had that being correct before.
I've had that get me the wrong
key when using that factory part
number off RepairLink Shop.
I don't know exact reasoning for
that, but that's the way
that's worked in some cases.
Like I mentioned, you know,
button configuration is, you
know, important to, but that's
easy enough with like, hey, can
you send me a picture of the key?
And then we know, okay, this is
the style and these are the
buttons.
Okay.
The other problem that we've
run into, especially with smart
keys is like almost
everything will work.
And this is true of the after
market keys quite a bit.
Again, when you're using the
aftermarket keys, the quality
is not just not going to be the
same as if you're buying it
from the dealer.
And so we'll get stuff where
like everything works, but
one button on the key, right?
Like the trunk button doesn't
work or back when we're using a
different supplier, we would get
these keys where the wrong
button would do the wrong
function, right?
You would hit the unlock and
the trunk would open or
something ridiculous like that.
But sometimes you get a key
where almost everything works,
right?
You get the immobilizer
portion, that's good.
You get the this episode is
brought to you by L one
automotive training and Keith
Perkins.
If you're looking for
education on module
programming, J 25 34
eProm work, key in immobilizer,
electrical diagnostics or
drivability diagnostics.
Keith has a website L one
training dot com that's got
over 60 hours of training
videos on all those subjects
and more.
When I first started out doing
mobile, I utilized Keith's
videos on module programming
in J 25 34 in order to get my
head wrapped around what I
would need for the tooling,
the computers, the software
setups, you know, what kind of
obstacles I would be up
against when I'm out there
programming modules on cars.
And it was a huge benefit to
me.
And I continue to use the
training videos that he has
on his website.
So I strongly recommend
checking out L one training
dot com.
The link is in the show notes.
RF portion, right, you hit the
lock or the unlock on the key.
That's good.
But then the smart key functions
won't work or even this one
portion of the smart key
functions don't work.
I had a BMW, which when you
get into the European world,
this becomes, you know, even
more challenging.
But everything worked on the
key that I programmed to it,
except when you would walk
up to the door and use
the proximity function where you
press the button on the door
handle, or I don't even think
that one had a button, but you
touch the door handle.
And if he keys in close
proximity, it's going to unlock
the doors.
That portion didn't work for
the new key I programmed in.
It did for the original.
That was just the one thing.
Everything else worked.
The prox function worked once
you were in the car and you
press the start button, but
not for the door handle.
So keys are struggle in that
way. And you know, we continue
to try to grow and have
methods to determine the correct
key and worst case scenario.
Yeah, we'll order a few so that
we have all of the options if
we're not sure.
Now, sometimes it's easy to
spot that you have the wrong
module installed on a vehicle,
sometimes not.
And where we've run into this
before is maybe we don't even
know that something has been
replaced on a vehicle.
This has been the case when we
see stuff come from the auction
quite often.
Also, you know, again, a car
can get worked on at
another repair facility and
then come to the repair facility
that is our customer and then
we're involved and we don't
know the history on the vehicle.
We don't know what was
changed. We don't even know
if something was changed.
We just know there is a problem.
So I'll give you a couple
examples of this and
the methods used to
you know, figure out that like,
oh, hey, this is not the right
modular component on this vehicle.
So first one was a 2015
Nissan Altima.
And a couple of us actually
looked at this.
Now, granted, we told the
customer what to do correctly
the first time, but
they didn't do that
or they
they were not very accurate in
their parts ordering.
And so they created the
same problem after
our first visit, we came back,
we read diagnosed it with the same
answer. But anyways,
this is a situation where
the window on the passenger
side would not operate and
they had already replaced the motor
and they had a couple switches
for the passenger side
that they were attempting to use.
We came out, we diagnosed
it, said, hey, this
driver's side switch
is incorrect for the
application.
Or I think I think actually
what Steve said the first time
that hey, this is incorrect, but
this switch is not functioning
the way that it's supposed to.
That was the information.
So I get a driver's side
switch for this thing, it's not
doing what it's supposed to.
So he gets a switch, he puts
it in, he calls us up, it's
like, hey, it's doing the same
thing. So I ended up going
back out to this one, take a
look at it. And I'm going
through it, I'm going through it.
And what I ended up finding
out is the same thing that Steve
did. But I looked into it a
little bit further, because I'm
like, OK, well, how come, you
know, two switches are not
working? Did you just get a bad
one? Well, there's two
different options on this
Nissan Altima.
You can have the auto function
or they called an anti-pinch
function for the windows
where it has the little A on
the switch, right?
So if you, you know, click
the button and hold it, it
will bring the window all the
way down or all the way up.
And you can have that either
just on the driver side or on
the driver in the passenger side.
And that completely changes the
configuration and the wiring
for this vehicle, depending
on which system that you have.
Now, by looking at the
wiring on the car and
looking at the diagrams, and
this is where I'm able to make
that distinction is number one,
there's two different diagrams
if you go into the power
windows, you know, in the
electrical diagram section of
your service information, you
can see, OK, there's two
different diagrams and you look
at the wires going to the
switches, you see, OK, the
wiring is completely different.
And in the situation where you
have auto on both sides, you
have a lint bus that goes
between the BCM and the two
switches. And if you don't
have that auto function on
both sides, you just have it
on the driver side, there's
no lint bus.
So the driver side switch
and the passenger side switch,
but the driver side switch
communicates on a lint bus
in one application and does not
in the other. Well, they had
the wrong switch on there.
They had the switch that only
had auto for the driver side,
but they had auto on both
sides of the vehicle, according
to the wiring that was on the
car. So I explain this to them
and I'm like, hey, you need to
get a switch. I already got a
switch. I'm like, well, you
need to get the right switch.
You need two A's on there.
You know, if it gets here and
only has one A on the left,
you know, the driver side
switch. OK, that's the wrong
switch. This is the wrong
switch. Get the right switch.
Get the right switch and it
worked correctly the way it was
supposed to. So that's a real
common example of things that
will run into.
But then when we're there, we
have to be able to identify
that, OK, there are different
options for this vehicle.
And I'm sure this is a pretty
common one. If you work on
these signs, you're like, OK,
that's that's just known.
That's obvious. It wasn't for
this shop. And I hadn't
personally run into it before.
But looking at the diagrams,
it becomes pretty clear that
like, OK, I need to determine
which application do I have
and then which switch is
installed. Luckily, it was
visual on this one. I didn't
even check part numbers.
I didn't need to. In this case,
it was just, hey, is there an A
stamped on this switch or not?
And, you know, pretty easy to
make that determination.
The other one we dealt with
recently was a bit more
challenging.
Now, this was a 2010
Toyota Prius and this
was a car that was from the
auction, which wasn't
disclosed to us at the
beginning.
Definitely would have been
helpful to know.
And the other part that was a
little confusing about it was
that the customer said that
their customer said this
thing was running and driving.
They moved it around and then
it stopped.
And it would not
go into park.
And I think they actually
were able to force it into
park at one point or another
and then it wouldn't come out.
But there is a
park actuator motor
or shift actuator motor on
the front of this transmission
in this Prius that's going
to, you know, lock it into
park or put it into gear.
And it's a three-phase motor.
So it gets power in on one
circuit and then it's got three
driver circuits and then a
position sensor to let
the transmission control module
know what position it's in.
Well, this thing wouldn't go,
you know, in or out of park
basically wouldn't activate
this motor.
And it was setting codes
for there was a C 2300
and then there were three
different codes all for
all three phases
of that three-phase motor.
And again, these are just driven
by the transmission control
module, which is behind the
glove box under the dash.
And these are hard faults
set every single time.
And this one definitely
beat us up a little bit,
trying to figure out what was
going on. Now, again, these
are circuit codes.
We're looking at this circuit
for the vehicle.
And what we end up
eventually finding is that
there was no power
going to this
motor on the power feed.
Right. Again, there's one power
feed and then there's going to be
three control circuits
that the TCM activates ground
on. But the TCM is looking
at these circuits
when the system is turned on
to see that is there power
there in the first place
because there should be if none
of the drivers are active, right?
It's kind of a logic check
or a circuit circuit check.
And it didn't see that.
And, you know, if we were to measure
at the TCM on these control circuits,
you would not see power there either.
Well, again, what we ended up finding
is that no power was being supplied
to it. So where does the power come
from? That's where it gets
a little interesting.
So it comes from
the integration relay,
which is in the junction block
under the hood.
Now, in order for
this relay to send
power there, there is another
circuit that is labeled
BMA out of
the TCM that basically
turns on a portion
of this integration relay.
Now, these are solid state drivers
within this relay.
It's actually it's like
a little control module.
It has a processor on the board.
But you can think of it is just
this is a control for a relay
to turn on power to go down
to the shift actuator.
Now, the TCM
was not supplying power on this
BMA circuit like it was supposed
to in order to activate this component.
Now, we had jumped
power to that
feed that goes to the motor
and it didn't fix our problem.
It actually set a shortage
power code at that point.
So it must have seen power
there when it didn't want to see power,
even though when we're trying
to activate this thing normally,
it doesn't turn on at all.
So we're not exactly sure.
And that kind of sent us for a loop
for a while. The other thing
that was confusing on this car
and that I don't have a for sure
answer for because we never got
to the bottom of this.
We did fix it, but the keyless
functions did not operate
on this car the way that they were supposed
to. So you could hit the lock
and unlock button on the fob
and nothing worked.
The car didn't respond to that.
You could put the key into the slot
on the dash and you could power up.
Now, the vehicle wouldn't ready
the ignition would turn on.
But if you had the key out of the slot,
you couldn't operate any of the keyless functions.
And we did verify the keys, you know,
got a good battery in it and everything
and the key and the key appears
to be for the vehicle.
You know, if I have a smart key that I'm
questioning, does this actually work
for this vehicle?
I'll pull the metal blade out.
And if it turns in the door, it's not
guaranteed, but it's a good sign
that that key actually belongs to that vehicle.
We didn't have any immobilizer codes.
Interestingly enough, the security light
was blinking on the dash
and I was curious
about this and we did chase the key thing
for a while. I definitely went off
on a rabbit hole trying to
I tried programming in the key
and I just kept failing and it wasn't
letting me do that.
I spent a little bit of time on that.
But I eventually went away from it
because I had no codes.
I had no security codes.
There was a couple at one point
because the battery was disconnected,
but they were in history.
But nothing was
setting in the for anti theft.
You know, because I'm thinking like,
why isn't this TCM providing
power to activate this relay?
And does it have something to do
with the key and the ignition potentially?
Well, I ended up going back to this
and at this point,
I'm going to the integration relay
that's under the hood.
And I'm looking at circuits,
you know, from the TCM and
to the shift actuator control.
And I think what I was going to try to do
was I was going to try to activate
the relay myself.
So this BMA circuit that I mentioned,
it goes between the TCM
and the integration relay.
The integration relay then sends power
out to the shift control motor
on this 2010 Prius.
Well, so I'm going to try to activate.
I'm going to be the BMA circuit
and sometimes they'll do that just to be like, OK,
does this portion of it work?
Like if I activated on
because I tried sending power directly
onto the power feed of the motor,
that didn't work.
But I want to try activating the relay
and just see what happens at this point.
I'm trying stuff to see how the car reacts.
Maybe it'll, you know, show me something
that gets me to where I need to be.
In this case, it did help
when I sent power on this BMA circuit,
which is what is supposed to be there
to activate this relay, nothing happened.
There's nothing going on.
Now, again, it's a solid state relay.
So it's not like you're going to hear a click,
but I get no power out onto the circuit.
I'm supposed to get power onto.
So then I'm wondering, OK, well, what else
is connected to this relay that,
you know, would drive it?
Now, I did have some trouble
finding the pin out in the inner workings
of this integration relay,
at least in aftermarket service information.
It was very difficult to determine
what all was going on in here
and where the ground side of the control
of this relay was.
And there's a ground going to this
integration relay.
And I think that's probably what it uses.
But I couldn't find anything clear in the diagram.
So I decided, OK, I'm just going to pull the cap off of this thing
because it's it's, you know, a flat
relay that's about the size of the palm of your hand.
And it plugs in with three connectors.
So I plug it, I take it out.
I pop this little cap off and you can see the circuit board.
Now, I know the pins like I know the pin in on the BMA.
I know the pin out that goes to the shift actuator.
And so I'm just going to look at the board and see, OK,
can I find where the ground side of this goes
to see if I can, you know, figure out just to make sure.
Like, do I have, you know, ground control?
Because as far as I know right now, this thing is not doing anything
when I attempt to activate it.
So I'm following circuits on the board.
I'm using an meter, go from the pin to here.
And I find on the board, there's pads with solder on them on the board.
But there is no driver there.
There's a bunch of other drivers for other stuff.
But it said it said FET 20.
So it's a MOSFET that would supposed to be there
or could potentially be there on this board, but it's not.
There's nothing there.
And I all made out and I don't know that it was directly connected
to the BMA circuit, but it was definitely connected to the output circuit
to go to the shift actuator.
And there's nothing there.
So it doesn't matter if even if the TCM was supplying power in that circuit,
which it wasn't.
And I guess I'll explain why I think that was.
But even if there was power there,
there's it's never going to send power to the shift actuator
because there's no driver.
It's like somebody pulled the relay out of the car
except for this, you know, isn't necessarily relay.
It's just a transistor that's soldered on to a board, but it's gone.
It's not there. And it's not like somebody took it off.
Right. That's that's not what this was.
It just wasn't equipped with it.
So this is where it gets a little confusing.
Well, why would that be?
Is this the wrong part for the car?
So we get talking and there had actually been some parts
swapping with another Prius that they had at this shop,
which caused some issues of its own, but that's a different story.
But this was the 2014 Prius.
And we take a look at the part number that's in this one
and we take a look at the part number that's in the 2014
and they're actually the same.
And that's why they're like, yeah, we had, you know,
swapped this integration relay and it didn't make a difference
depending on which one we put in there.
And I agree, it wouldn't have changed anything.
But the one that came in there,
we had installed into this 2010 Prius
did not have the driver for the circuit
that was setting the circuit codes.
So we do a little bit of digging and I was using chat
GPT for this, which actually was really helpful.
And we find that there are different versions
of this integration relay, depending on the application
that you have and if you look at previous years
and newer years than this 2010.
So there's only like a year and a half that they did this.
They put the relay or you could say the relay.
It's again, it's a driver circuit for this shift actuator
circuit into the integration relay for this 2010 only.
If you go older, there's a separate external relay.
If you go newer, there's a separate external relay.
Like the circuit is essentially the same,
but it's got an external relay.
So where I'm going with this is the part that we had
that did actually come out of something like a 2014.
I don't know when the car came with it.
When it got to the shop, probably at the auction,
getting swapped around, it came with an integration
out of a newer vehicle that for the circuit
that was setting circuit codes had an external relay.
So they didn't have the driver on the board.
So nothing was ever going to happen.
And if you go older than a 2010, it's the same thing.
Different part numbers, I think, but neither one of them
would have worked in this application.
In this application, I needed an integration relay
for this year so that it had the correct driver on the board.
So I told the shop was like, hey, here's the part number.
I did use RepairLinkShop.com got the correct part number
based off the VIN, which was different
than the one that I had in there.
And ChatGBT is actually really helpful to say like,
yeah, that's not the right part for this.
This is the right part.
And it was correct.
The part number that it gave me was matched
what I found in RepairLinkShop.com.
So, you know, if you're using, you know,
language models and stuff to help you on stuff like this,
take it with a grain of salt, double check it.
But in this case, it was very accurate.
And it actually, I had mentioned the problems
I was having and it also mentioned that like,
yes, this is definitely something that happens
if the wrong integration relay is put in there.
So if you're a Toyota tech listening,
you may have already known this
and dealt with this a hundred times initially common.
I've never seen it before.
And maybe if that's you,
you can help me explain the next part
because I told them, hey, this is for sure wrong.
We have to for sure fix this
and it's probably gonna take care of this park issue.
I told him, I was like, I don't know about the key thing.
That's weird, but it's very possible
it has something to do
because this integration relay
runs a bunch of other different circuits.
And again, finding the diagrams for it were difficult.
So instead of doing it in that moment
and just confirming like it's gonna fix everything,
I told him, put this in there, get the right one
and then see what happens
if there's more problems call us or we'll check in.
We wanna make sure it's fixed.
And turns out that fixed everything.
Everything worked once the correct integration relay was in.
So what I'm thinking is there was another power supply circuit
or some circuit that interacts with other modules
on the vehicle that was not right
when the wrong integration relay was installed.
Whatever that was was most likely preventing the TCM
from even attempting to activate that circuit.
Whatever that was was preventing the keyless functions
from working properly.
And obviously the shift actuator circuits.
And those are the codes that we have.
So that was the thing that I chased, right?
And quite often I've said this before
when you have a vehicle that has multiple problems,
pick one that you know you can get to the solution of
follow that, ignore the rest.
A lot of the time you'll end up finding the source
for all of the problems.
Not always, cars have multiple issues.
That definitely happens.
But I can't tell you how many times I've been in that situation
you're overwhelmed with like, this is wrong,
this is wrong, this is wrong.
And some things are just not as easy to follow.
Some things don't have codes.
Some things don't make sense.
But if you got a hard code, you got a circuit code,
follow that, keep going with that.
See if you can figure out what's going on there.
That's what I did here and it got me to it.
Just by, you know, I was opening up the module,
not the relay, not because I thought it was the wrong part.
I had no idea which part number was which
and it plugged in and it looked like it fit.
But going down that path is what allowed me to see that
like, oh, okay, I'm missing a driver here.
This is not the right part for this car.
So that fixed it, put the integration relay in there.
So anyways, those are just my thoughts
recently on wrong parts.
I'm sure you guys deal with this too out there
doing what we do.
So if you got a story about a wrong part,
you wanna share it, you know, put it in the Facebook group
or give me a shout, we'll have you on the podcast
and talk about it.
So these man-made issues, which wrong parts usually are,
can be very interesting.
But that's all I got for you today.
Thank you so much for listening.
Really appreciate it.
With that out of the way, let's get out there,
start fixing the world one car at a time.
["Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy"]
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