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Welcome to the Automotive Diagnostic Podcast.
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Hey, what's going on?
Automotive World, welcome to another episode of the Automotive Diagnostic Podcast.
My name is Sean Tipping and I'll be your host once again for this week's episode.
Just me this week, I'm going to do another informative instructional episode on transmissions
and transmission programming.
I've done a couple of these before.
I had one on the 8 and 10 speed GM transmissions.
I had one on the Nissan, Jatco CVTs, and it's just a quick audio guide to what you would
need to know about this transmission specifically for programming.
I'm not going to go a whole lot into the diagnostics of it.
I mean, even for us, the diagnostics on these things aren't real heavy.
Our goal is to determine, is it inside or outside of the transmission?
Is it computer electrical related or is it in the transmission?
If it's in the transmission, we're generally speaking not going much further in our role.
You might be in your shop depending on what you do and maybe you're a transmission shop
and of course you're going in depth, but we're doing this for transmission shops
a lot of the time and I tell them, hey, you're the expert on the innards of this
transmission.
I haven't built a transmission since the 3T40 that I did in tech school.
That transmission's from the early 90s.
Although I understand the inner workings and I've done valve bodies and had them apart
and stuff like that, you're the expert on the internals.
We're not set up for pressure measurements and things like that.
Where I'm going with this is I'm not going to focus real heavy on the diagnostics
for this.
Mainly for programming of these transmissions and depending on your role,
you might be in a shop and doing the actual repair of the transmission,
which will make some of this easier because you'll know where you're at.
But I know there's a lot of mobile programmers that listen to this show
and maybe the vehicle's coming from another shop to your shop
because you have programming capabilities.
So you kind of be in the same boat there.
What are some things that you need to know going into it?
What are some tips?
What are some things to consider and some pitfalls that you might encounter along the way?
So again, just to be clear what we're talking about today,
this is the 9-speed transmission that's made by ZF.
It's a German company.
They make a ton of the transmissions that you deal with in multiple vehicles.
All kinds of European stuff.
But then also all of the Ford and GM 6-speed transmissions are made by ZF.
This 9-speed is also made by ZF.
And where are you going to see this?
And my main focus today is going to be on Jeep and Chrysler vehicles.
I will note that they are in Honda and Acura vehicles,
like a Pilot and Odyssey and a couple others.
And they're in Jaguar Land Rover and a couple models.
Now for Jaguar Land Rover, I'm not really going to talk about it.
I haven't dealt with any personally.
I know that those modules can be cloned.
And I'll talk more about the module specific
because the physical unit, if you look at the module for all of these,
regardless of the vehicle brand that they're in, they all look the same.
It's the same physical module.
How the software is going to be set up is definitely going to change though.
Again, I haven't dealt with any Jaguar Land Rover.
I'm not going to talk about that today.
I will make one note on the Honda Acura side of things
because this is very different than the Jeep Chrysler application
of basically the same transmission and the same module.
But the way that Honda and Acura does it in the models that I've worked with,
and this is important to know, is that the immobilizer is tied in with the TCM.
Okay?
So if either the TCM or the transmission and TCM are replaced as a unit,
again, I'll talk more details about the module here as we go,
then you have to perform an immobilizer function,
or you're not even going to be able to key that thing up.
And I dealt with this on a Honda Pilot and it was the first one that I'd run into.
And it's not really straightforward.
I will say that the Autel IM series is capable, but it's not intuitive.
So it takes a little bit of work to get there.
It's not just straight up like link TCM to the immobilizer.
It's a very different path for that, but it is capable.
You can also use the Honda immobilizer tool.
I struggled with that as well.
That is broken in some instances and takes some work to get it working right.
But it is possible and then they'll need programming.
But again, my focus today is not on the Honda Acura side of things.
If you've got questions on the immobilizer, I don't know, hit me up.
I'll see if I can walk you through it.
But I want to focus more on the details of the Jeep and Chrysler versions
of this 9-speed ZF transmission because that's what we see the majority of.
And there's a lot to consider when you go into programming.
I think they have the most steps that you could have with this combination.
Compared to some of the other brands, I guess maybe I shouldn't say that
because I haven't done Jaguar, but I am pretty experienced with the Jeep Chrysler.
So this 9-speed transmission, you're going to see this used in the Cherokee,
in the Compass, in the Renegade, in the Pacifica and the 200.
And there might be other models, but those were the ones that I could think of
that I've seen this 9-speed transmission used in.
So they have problems.
They get replaced.
There's a bunch of TSBs, there's software updates and stuff,
but there's also mechanical failures of these things.
We see them failed quite often.
And when they get replaced, there is going to be some type of programming
or scan tool function that you need to run in order for everything
to be set up correctly and for that vehicle to go down the road
and shift correctly.
So that's where the focus of this is going to be today.
Again, just a quick guide of what you might need to do or know
going into that situation.
And this probably isn't all-encompassing, so just bear in mind,
read service information and check because your unique circumstance
or vehicle might have some extra step that I'm not mentioning here,
but this is just a free audio guide.
So bear that in mind as we continue.
But again, we've done lots of these, so I'm going to give you some advice here.
So one thing to know, and you may already know this,
but if you haven't dealt with it, is that the transmission control
module for these transmissions is mounted to the top of the transmission,
but it is external.
And so a lot of the ZF transmissions that we see,
the transmission control module is inside of the transmission, right?
Behind a cover, maybe it's part of a valve body or a tecum unit
that has solenoids attached to it, but you have to take
apart the transmission in order to change the module.
And then there's, you know, obviously transmissions where the transmission
control module is external, but it's mounted up on the firewall
or under the dash or somewhere else on the vehicle.
So really external from the vehicle.
This one's unique as the transmission control module is actually bolted
to the top of the transmission.
So while it's not the easiest thing to do in the car,
you could still remove it, but when it's out of the vehicle,
like that thing is right there and it's easy to remove or swap.
Now, here's why I bring this up and here's why this is important to know
because if a transmission is getting installed,
and particularly in this case, a used transmission,
but there's theoretically this could be the case
with a new transmission as well, but with a used transmission,
you need to know as the programmer going into the situation,
did they swap the original TCM onto the new or used transmission
or is the TCM that is bolted to it the one that came with the transmission?
Now, again, usually if the TCM is inside of the transmission,
you don't have to really consider that odds are they didn't take
the used transmission apart and the original apart and swap the Tecum.
I'm referring to GM terminology there, but that generally doesn't happen.
We could obviously, but most of the time that does not happen,
but with these because it's external and it just really depends on the technicians
or the shop's mindset of how they're doing things,
they could easily swap that control module, put the original on the used one
and bolt it up and they'd be ready to go.
Maybe not quite.
You do have to do some other steps.
It is important even if you do swap that module
and that might be the intense right of the technician.
I've had that.
I've had people say, well, I swapped the module.
I shouldn't need to program anything.
Yes and no, it's going to change the steps that you need to do,
but you still are going to have to do some form of programming.
So let me break this down for you in the different scenarios.
Actually, you know what?
You know what I'll do first is I'll walk you through everything
that could potentially need to be done on one of these transmissions.
Like all of the functions that you might have to run.
We'll talk about that.
And then we'll talk a little bit about the different scenarios
that you might run into as you're working on these things.
So when you're programming these TCMs, number one,
they do have the VIN written to them for the vehicle.
So obviously whatever the VIN number is on the vehicle,
you want that written to the TCM.
And if you get a used module, it's already got a VIN written to it.
You have to rewrite it.
I've been able to do that on these used modules without much issue.
You're also going to have the software,
the actual programming for the TCM.
Now, if it's a new module, you're going to be putting the,
you know, initial software into that vehicle using Witech,
most likely, and that's going to pertain to that specific
vehicle, the software level and the configuration of that
vehicle, the options that were built on that Cherokee
or that Renegade.
You know, is it all wheel drivers?
Is it four-wheel drive?
Does it have this gear or this final drive ratio or this one?
Is it a trailhawk or is it not?
Right?
These are all the things that will change that software
application.
And I have found with these nine speeds,
there's a ton of different options, especially like the Jeep Cherokee.
There seems to be like eight different options for each vehicle.
And so getting the wrong software on a used module is very possible.
We'll talk a little bit about that as we go.
But so we got Vinright.
We got software, the actual programming.
There's also a valve body learn.
Okay.
So this is a link between the transmission control module,
which again is mounted external to the transmission and the
electrical portion of the valve body,
which is the solenoids.
And it is a process where that TCM will learn the electrical
characteristics and in turn some of the flow rates,
you could say, or the physical characteristics of the solenoids
that are applied in that specific transmission.
Now, I looked and there's nothing in service information
that really explains what they're doing here in this learn.
And I looked externally on the internet to see if I could
find any resources, transmission magazines and things like
that for an explanation of what's happening during that valve
body learn and it does not appear that they release this
information so you can see exactly what's going on.
So I can't give you a real definitive answer,
but my best guess is it's doing some sort of electrical either
resistance or current test in order to determine the
characteristics of each one of the solenoids.
Now, what I was initially thinking was that the valve body in
this had some sort of ROM chip stored data about the
characteristics of that valve body.
The reason I was initially thinking this is because if you
go to the Nissan CVTs, the Jatco, some of them have that
used in the like the Versa and the Centra.
When you go to do the valve body learn,
there's no QR code on these Nissan's.
It grabs the information from this ROM chip and it
learns it into the TCM and that was applied to a few other CVTs
as well even in Dodge and Chrysler vehicles like the
Avengers and stuff like that.
But I was thinking that that's what happened on this one.
It doesn't appear to be that way because if you look at
the wiring diagram, there's no such thing that exists.
If you look at the part itself like the valve body itself
and the sub harness that's in the transmission,
no such thing exists.
So my guess is is that the TCM is learning some sort of
electrical characteristic of this,
but it could also be looking at pressures and clutch
applications and things of that nature as well during this
learn.
So I don't have the exact definition,
but here's what I can tell you.
It's important not only for the operation of the transmission,
right, the TCM should know these characteristics about
the valve body in order to shift it correctly.
But if it's a new TCM and you forget to do this
or you didn't even know you had to do this because
you didn't read service information or you didn't listen
to this podcast, it will have a configuration code.
And this, unless you read the details of this code,
it's a little confusing because there's a bunch of other
processes.
I'm not even done with all the processes and you might
think it's one of the other ones like, hey,
I did all of these other steps,
but you missed the valve body learn.
So there is a valve body learn.
It links the TCM to the valve body on that specific
transmission and because again,
that TCM is external on top of the transmission.
It's easy to get, you know, them swapped around
and then they're no longer linked.
So you want to make sure you perform that outside
of maybe one circumstance.
Hey, have you ever been faced with the challenge of
sourcing, installing and programming a used control
module in a vehicle?
I know a lot of us have.
It seems to be happening more and more often today
with the volume of control modules on vehicles,
the cost of some new ones,
or even the availability of new control modules.
In some cases used may be the only option.
So what do you do here?
I strongly recommend checking out SJ auto solutions
and Tommy Oliva.
Tommy offers a cloning service for use control
modules to make these things plug and play for
the vehicle that you're working on.
In a lot of cases,
he is also able to source the control modules
if you're unable to locate one for the vehicle
that you're working on.
But once you get connected with Tommy,
he's going to offer fantastic support from start
to finish to make sure that that control module
is going to work in your application.
He's also got tech support that he offers
through his website,
along with some free resources there as well
on information about used control module programming.
So make sure to check out SJ auto solutions.
I can't recommend that enough.
There's also a proxy alignment.
Now this again is applying specifically to these
Chrysler G vehicles and specifically
to the Fiat architecture vehicles.
So the Pacifica doesn't fall under that category
and I could probably do a whole other podcast
or maybe I have.
I've talked about proxy learns before.
I think there was a episode with a pro master city
that I talked about the proxy learn in depth
but essentially what's happening there
is the BCM stores the vehicle configuration
that's downloaded from the Chrysler server
and then it distributes it
to the rest of the control modules
that need that configuration information
and that BCM is essentially telling all of these modules
hey, you're set up on this vehicle with these options.
It's coding really
because I've seen some of the stuff in the module
and it's just turning on and off different options
and telling it like hey, you have this gear ratio.
Hey, you're set up for four wheel drive, not all wheel drive.
Again, the software can correlate to that
but the proxy learn is more along the lines
of coding of the module.
Again, that only applies to the Fiat architecture.
If it's not a Fiat architecture
it won't have a proxy learn option.
You can't even do it
but if it does, you'll need to run this proxy learn.
Again, you'll have a code in the TCM
and maybe other modules as well.
If this wasn't performed, there'll be...
It's a configuration code
kind of like the one I was talking about
with the Valve body learn
but it's a different code.
Again, you read the details of the code
it'll tell you what to do.
One thing on these proxy learns.
Now, if you're doing all this programming
you probably have Y-Tech
and so it doesn't really matter
but this might be helpful for other cars.
You can run a proxy learn
on one of these Fiat architecture vehicles
with just a regular scan tool.
I know Topton, I know Autel
and I think even Snap-on will do these
under the special functions of the BCM.
It's not an online function.
Again, it is taking the configuration
that was already downloaded to the BCM body control
and in distributing it out
or aligning the modules on the vehicle
that also share that configuration.
And again, scan tool function.
Really easy to do.
Most shops don't realize that.
They'll call us for these proxy learns.
They have the tool that will do it.
So if you didn't know that, you know that now
and you can use that to make some money, hopefully.
Finally, there's a quick learn.
This has been around for a long time
on a lot of Chrysler transmission applications
and this is just going to be learning clutch volumes
and helping the TCM learn the specifics
of the transmission itself.
So this is beyond the valve body, if you will.
Of course, the valve body is involved with this,
but this is really like the actual clutch packs
and gears being applied
and it's learning different characteristics
of the transmission here.
You've probably done a quick learner too
if you've worked on any Chrysler vehicle
over the last 30 years.
I mean, they had this all the way back
into the early 2000s on scan tools.
Some of them take longer than others.
One thing I will say about these nine speeds
is you have to have them up to temperature,
which can take a little bit of time.
So that's where this might be a little time consuming.
But those are all the different functions
that you might need to run on one of these TCMs
or transmissions or both if they've been replaced.
So again, that's Vinright, that software,
that's, you know, the actual programming.
There's a valve body learn.
There's a proxy alignment and there's a quick learn.
So that's why I'm talking about this
because it's actually kind of confusing.
Yeah, you can read service information.
You can go through it, but let me go a little bit deeper here
on these functions as far as what you would need to do
and when, okay?
Because you might be in different scenarios.
Are you replacing just the transmission?
Are you replacing the transmission and the TCM?
Are you doing a new TCM?
Are you doing a used TCM?
Did they put a used transmission in the car
but swap the original TCM onto that transmission
before they installed it?
Okay, what do you do there?
I have a little chart for our guys here to know the scenario.
So you obviously want to ask the customer, you know,
what was done, what was changed, what's installed,
did things get swapped around this and that
and you can tell from the scan tool a lot of times
in a used situation whether the TCM is original
to the vehicle or not, just look at the Vin number.
If the Vin number is already correct for the vehicle,
that's probably the original TCM.
If it's not, it's going to be the used one.
Now, of course, if it's new, then we're just, you know,
setting it up for the first time.
So again, if you're replacing a new transmission,
it's going to come with a new TCM most likely.
I haven't seen a scenario where that's not the case.
So then you're going to be doing all of those functions
that I talked about, VinWrite, software,
ValBodyLearn, ProxyLearn, QuickLearn.
And maybe not even necessarily in that order.
I probably should be reading them off in order.
You may have to do the software first
and then you could do VinWrite.
And then you can do ProxyLearn,
then you can do a ValBodyLearn,
then you do a QuickLearn.
I think that's the order that I would do it in,
but you can figure that out as you go.
If you're replacing just the TCM, right, a new TCM,
you're going to do the same thing.
You're going to have to do all of this
because that module is essentially going to be blank.
Now, what if we put a used transmission in the vehicle
and it has a used TCM that they never took off,
it came with that transmission?
What functions do you need to do in that case?
Now, you're going to have to do the VinWrite for sure.
You got to change that Vin number
so that it matches the vehicle.
And again, if you're using Y-Tech,
I haven't had an issue changing the Vin number.
Using Y-Tech, you might even be able to do
with aftermarket scan tools as well.
One thing I should mention on these used TCMs,
there is software and tools out there
that will clone these on the bench,
but I think you have to open them up.
I haven't done it myself, but I've seen multiple tools
offer the ability to clone these nine-speed transmissions,
one-to-one, plug-and-play,
they'll have everything from the original TCM.
So there's stuff out there
if you're interested to go that route.
The reason I bring that up is the next thing
that you would need to do with a used transmission
is to verify that the software
that is already in that used TCM
matches the vehicle's options.
Or I should say, is the software
that is supposed to be in that vehicle,
which will pertain to the vehicle options.
This is where we usually see issues
as far as a used transmission in TCM
being installed in one of these vehicles.
Is that they'll get the correct transmission,
which has the correct TCM,
and it is important to check the hardware too.
We have seen that as well.
A shop will just throw a used TCM on a vehicle
and it's out of something completely wrong.
So the hardware is incorrect.
So the hardware's got to be right.
So let's just assume that they got the correct hardware
for the transmission of the TCM.
We still have to correct the software potentially.
Now you can use the Fed World Report
if you Google that.
It's all the Chrysler flash files
for like every Chrysler vehicle since 1998
for PCM and TCM.
So engine control and transmission control.
It'll have all of the software numbers.
And I could again do probably a whole podcast.
I think I actually put a video in the Facebook group
a few years ago on how to do this,
but you can use some control F action within the big PDF
and you can figure out if the software
that is in there is correct for your vehicle
or you can figure out what software is correct
for the vehicle that you have.
Now, if you have the old TCM, you can also use that.
And that's probably the simplest way
in a lot of cases is to check the old TCM, the original.
Okay, what software is in there?
That's the software I want.
And this one, does it match?
No. Okay.
Then you're going to have to consider how,
how do I change this if I can?
Now again, like I said, there's tools out there
that will clone these modules.
That would take care of it.
That would transfer that software.
YTECH is generally not going to do this if it's wrong, right?
YTECH will update your software, right?
It'll go up in the level, but you can't go left and right.
You can't put in a different software
into that module using YTECH under the,
under the normal functions.
Now, there is a way to do this
with the J version of Chrysler programming.
There's also some softwares out there that will do this.
I'm not going to mention them on here
because they're kind of in that gray area of is this a,
is this a legitimate legal option that people should be using?
That's a question mark.
So if you're interested, I'm sure you can go onto Google,
you can figure it out, but there's software
that will change the programming that's in there
to the level that you want.
But you also might just be in a situation
where, hey, this isn't the right module.
You need to get it out of a Jeep with these specifics.
Now, finding out what specifics you have,
let's say the original is gone.
You're like, okay, I don't know what the original software is.
You could use that Fed World Report,
but the Fed World Report only works for you
if you know the specifics about that vehicle, right?
Like final drive ratio,
like all-wheel drive versus four-wheel drive.
There's a number of other applications
that you need to know about that vehicle.
RepairLinkShop.com is usually what I used
to do that.
So I'll put it in the vehicle.
I'll reference it against that sheet.
It takes a little bit of legwork to figure out,
but we can figure out what software is supposed
to be in that vehicle.
And then we will find out
if the one that is in there is correct.
So that piece of it can actually take a little bit
of time if somebody's putting in a used transmission.
So that's definitely a stumbling block
and something I wanted to bring up
because if it doesn't have the right programming
in there, you can get weird codes,
not only in the TCM, but in other modules
when that TCM is expecting a drivetrain control module,
but one doesn't exist on the vehicle
because it wasn't set up with that configuration.
And you'll never get rid of that code
until you get the correct software in that module.
All right?
So again, used transmission,
the used TCM that came with it on there.
We got to do that VIN, right?
We got to do the software.
Now, for the valve body and the quick learn,
in my personal opinion, in this situation
with a used transmission and TCM installed together,
I don't think you necessarily need to do these.
I would say they're optional.
And the reason being is that TCM should already know
the characteristics of that valve body
and that transmission, right?
If it's been driven.
Now, I'm not saying you can't do these.
And if you want to do a proper service,
make sure that it's set up correctly for the customer
because you just installed this transmission.
Go ahead and do it.
But I don't think it's 100% necessary.
Maybe you could go drive it if it shifts funny.
Okay, let's run it through these processes
and see does this help at all?
But theoretically, that TCM should already know
the characteristics of the valve body.
It should already know the characteristics
of the transmission because they came together.
So that's my opinion on that.
You may have to do that proxy alignment as well,
though with a used one because I would say
you're almost going to have to
if it's a fiat architecture
and you're putting on a used TCM
because it will not be aligned to that vehicle.
So used transmission and used TCM.
You can do Vinrite, software programming, proxy alignment,
valve body and quick learner optional in my opinion
in that scenario.
All right, then finally, we've got this scenario
and I've run into this.
Used transmission is installed
but they swapped the original TCM onto it.
Okay, what do you need to do in this?
Now you don't need to do the Vin.
You don't need to do software.
You don't need to do the proxy learn here.
You for sure need to run the valve body learn
and the quick learn here
because now that TCM, your original to the car TCM
has a brand or I shouldn't say brand new.
Maybe it's a used one.
That's usually the scenario
but it's a new transmission in reference
to what that TCM has stored for data.
So you need to run that valve body learn.
You need to run that quick learn.
Okay.
Now you can check for software updates here
in any of these circumstances
if you've got a used one.
Definitely look to see if there's an update
because they did correct a lot of things.
There was a TSB for the Cherokees
where they didn't even have a quick learn option
until you did the update
and also bear in mind specifically on those Cherokees
for a few years.
There was an update where you needed to update
both the PCM and the TCM at the same time.
And I don't think it was a sequential function.
If I remember, I think it's just,
there's a note saying like,
Hey, you need to do this module too.
If you update this one to the most current level.
So pay attention to that.
You'll be using why tech for that one.
All right.
So hopefully all that made sense
and hopefully that's helpful information
if you want it run into one of these nine speed
transmissions and you probably will
because they seem to fail quite often
but thought I'd give a little bit of information
for everybody.
Otherwise just want to say thank you to everybody
for listening all the feedback you get on the show.
I always appreciate that.
We'll be back next week with another episode.
Until then, let's get out there
start fixing the world one car at a time.
About this episode
Dive into the complexities of programming the Jeep and Chrysler 9-speed ZF transmission, focusing on key steps like VIN writing, software updates, valve body learn, proxy alignment, and quick learn procedures. The discussion highlights challenges with used transmissions and TCM swaps, software compatibility, and the importance of following service info. The episode also touches on differences in Honda/Acura applications and offers practical advice for mobile and shop programmers, emphasizing tools, cloning services, and common pitfalls to ensure proper transmission function and vehicle drivability.
Original notes
Today on the show I share some tips on programming ZF 9-speed TCMs/Transmissions after replacement in Jeep and Chrysler vehicles. We'll touch briefly on the usage in Honda, Acura, & JLR vehicles as well. I'll describe the various scenarios you can run into when programming these modules including when used parts are installed/mixed in with OG.
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Automotive Diagnostic Podcast
Sean Tipping
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