322: Ford As-Built Challenges

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Hey, what's going on?

Automotive World, welcome to another episode of the Automotive Diagnostic Podcast.

My name is Sean Tipping, I'll be your host once again for this week's episode.

Thank you so much for joining me.

Just being on the show this week, I'm going to stop talking about AI for a little bit.

Can't promise it's forever.

But we're going to talk about some four programming challenges that we have run

into and you might have as well.

If not, maybe you will in the future.

Some important information that you're going to want to know going into doing Ford programming

for replacement modules.

So if you are familiar with programming modules on Ford, Lincoln, Mercury vehicles,

not too many of the Mercury's left out there, but they are out there.

If you program modules on these vehicles, you'll be familiar with a lot of the things

that I'm talking about here.

I am going to do just a real quick clarification on some of the terminology and acronyms that

I'll be using throughout this.

So again, if you're familiar with Ford stuff, you can probably skip a few minutes here

rather than listen to this.

But if you're not, if you've never programmed a Ford before, and I'm going to throw

a bunch of acronyms out there as we go and be like, what am I, what is he talking

about?

And this is not a class on how to program a Ford.

There's plenty of material out there.

I'll go take one of Keith Perkins classes on his website and there's other stuff out

there too.

But I am going to use those terms while I'm talking about the challenge that we're

dealing with on these vehicles.

But anyways, let's just go through them real quick.

So when I talk about IDS, that's Integrated Diagnostic System, that is the program

programming and diagnostic platform that Ford has used from 1996 to roughly 2018.

Now there was a transition starting in 18 on some models where they went to FDRS, which

is Ford Diagnostic and Repair System.

And that is the, it's like legacy versus the current platform.

Like everything made in 2025 is going to be FDRS.

But then starting in 18, there was a transition period.

I think up to 21, if I remember correctly, I should have that in front of me because

I'm talking about this, but again, this isn't a Ford programming class.

But what I'm going with here is there are some vehicles in 2018, like Expedition,

that is going to be FDRS.

But there are some vehicles in 2018, like an F-150 that is still going to be IDS.

So they phased in the vehicle platforms to the new diagnostic and programming platform.

Now the nice part is, besides the interactions that you'll have with the software itself,

the way these modules are programmed, like the basic format of what you're doing, it

doesn't change that much.

It's just the screens look different and you find the things different places in

the software.

That's really about it.

We're still going to be doing the same thing and we run into the same challenge regardless

of its IDS or FDRS.

Now just for clarification on the terms, there is an FJDS, which is for J2534 diagnostic

system.

And this was pre-FDRS and this was the J2534 platform.

You could do powertrain modules and security related features when it came to those powertrain

related modules.

If you replace a PCM, it houses the keys or you have to do a parameter reset, it gives

you those functions and that's pretty much it.

Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't used it personally since probably 2018.

But it was the short-term version.

If you want to use a Jbox and you don't want to buy the long-term IDS for the

whole year but because of the reasonable price of Ford, I just went with the full year.

Now I should also note they recently changed their subscription model just within the last

month.

It used to be a license key that you bought and then you had to use that for the laptop

that you were going to program with.

Now it is a login style.

Now it is a login style where you use your username and password and according to

what they say you can use up to three laptops concurrently so you don't need that license

key anymore.

Our license key extends out past like right now in October of 25 so I haven't actually

transitioned to this new method yet.

We will eventually and we'll see, I'm sure there'll be some challenges with that.

I did read somewhere on Facebook that they're watching the logins to make sure that it's

not happening in different states, right?

So if you live and work and buy the subscription in Minnesota and then they see that login being

used in Florida, they can, I mean, pretty safely assume that you're sharing your login

with somebody which they're obviously going to try to avoid.

So be aware of that, again, not the scope of this class because I haven't even transitioned

to the new method yet but that is what they're doing with the login for the full

on FDRS IDS package.

Now you buy that year package and you do get both.

You get IDS for the older platform vehicles and you get FDRS access with the same

subscription.

So it's not like some manufacturers where you would potentially have to buy two

separate subscriptions or the one I can think of is Nissan.

I think the more expensive subscription for Nissan, you get console four and three

but then you can buy one with just three.

Anyways, I'm getting off into the weeds there like I usually do.

But anyways, back to Ford, just a couple more terms and then we'll get into this

year, what I'm actually talking about today.

I'll talk about PMI that's programmable module installation that is essentially

the process you go through to program a replacement control module.

And that's going to do programming and it's going to do coding.

Now the coding portion of it through Ford is traditionally listed as as built data

or as built coding and you'll see this listed as configuration during the PMI

process and even in FDRS software listed as configuration rather than as built

data, but in the IDS platform, that's what you'll see it listed as as built.

So what do we mean by as built?

The as built data is again, the coding for that module.

What is coding?

Coding is the options that that vehicle has.

And you're telling the module, hey, it has LED taillights.

It has adaptive cruise control.

It has duly rear wheels, right?

There's hundreds, probably thousands of different options.

It all depends on the module.

And when they make a vehicle, right, especially like a pickup truck, for

instance, there are a ton of different build options for that vehicle, but they're

going to make the same control module on a lot of cases, like an instrument cluster,

for instance, that's going to be used across the platform, regardless of the

specific options that were built onto that vehicle.

And so the coding is stuff that that module is capable of across the board,

right?

Every single Ford F-150 that they put that cluster into each one had a

hundred different options, and each cluster is set up to potentially operate any

of those 100 different options.

But you have to tell it which one it's equipped with to either turn on or off or

configure those options correctly for that vehicle.

That's what as built data or coding is, and coding is used in other modules on

other makes, but for Ford, that's what it's called.

Now, we can get into the problem that myself and many others have run into.

Wouldn't even say recently, this has been going on for quite some time, just about

as long as I've been programming, I can remember instances like this where the

as built data for a particular vehicle on Ford's server, and we'll talk about

that is incorrect, meaning it's either missing or it's wrong for the given

vehicle that we are trying to pull that as built data from.

Okay.

So let me give you an instance here.

We replace an ABS control module on a vehicle.

Okay.

So we get a call, say, Hey, we put an ABS control module in this car.

We go to the car and we either decide to run a PMI, which is the usual

process because a PMI programmable module installation is generally going

to run the programming if the module requires it.

And not all of them do some of them just need the as build data.

But if it needs programming, it's going to put the software into the

module that it requires, and then it's going to run the configuration.

And again, you'll see that on the screen.

That's what it's doing.

The configuration is the coding, setting up the options.

And it's using the data on the server for that VIN number.

Okay.

And so it pulls it from Ford's server.

It looks up the VIN says, okay, this is the coding that's supposed

to go into this module.

But what can happen and what does happen is that data, again, is

wrong or missing on the Ford server.

So then when the tool goes to pull it and is putting in or trying to

put in the data, it's either you're going to have faults after the fact

or it's just going to air out in general depends on the situation.

That's definitely why you want to check for codes before the

vehicle sent out.

But even then we've had issues where, you know, it doesn't

code until the vehicle is driven.

Um, so it can be a hassle here, which is kind of why I'm

talking about it.

It's been a frustrating thing for us to anticipate and deal with as it

pops up.

But the fact of the matter is the data that is pulling from Ford

server is incorrect for that vehicle.

Now, ideally when you do a PMI or even just doing as built coding,

you're supposed to start with the original module plugged into the

vehicle and Ford software, if you haven't entered the secret

password, we'll pull the data out of the module, save it, and then

we'll push it into the new module.

So in that case, it may not necessarily be pulling information

from Ford server if you have pulled it out of the original module.

And there's all kinds of different module programming on

Ford's some vehicles, some modules.

It makes a lot of sense to start with the original.

Uh, if we're doing a PCM, for instance, you can save yourself

a ton of time, like you don't have to find the solid night

strategy for a transmission if you start with the original because

it pulls it out of there and puts it into the new one.

If you and for it does ask you in the software of like, Hey,

are you starting with the original or not?

Or is the original plugged in?

You can say yes or no.

And there's various ways of programming programming use

control modules here, but anyways, you could pull it off of

the original and you can rely on the Ford software to put

it into the new one.

But what if you don't have the original?

What if the originals and no communication?

These things happen and we run under this and we run into this

quite often going into shops where they'll call us up for a

control module programming.

And, you know, we've tried to train some of our more

regular customers, like save the original module.

That's always our default.

Doesn't matter what it is, even if I need it or not.

There have been so many situations over the years of just

like, save the old module, please for the love of God, save

the old module.

It makes our lives so much easier if there's something

that goes wrong.

If the factory software doesn't work that day, if Ford is

missing data on their server, having that original makes

things way easier, but often it is not available.

They've already sent it back.

They don't know what happened to it.

The part store can't get it back because it's already been

sent back on the truck to the remanufacturer.

Or, I mean, the module just might be an OCOM, right?

Physically damaged, whatever.

And so you can't get data out of it.

And so you then you have to rely on what is on Ford's

server in order to finish that programming slash coding.

Now you can rely on the tool to pull that information

from the server.

If you have a current account, it's going to do that.

Or you can go right to the website yourself and see the

coding.

Now, this is helpful, but it's not much different than the

tool doing yet because when you do this, and here's how

you do this, you go to motorcraftservice.com and then

you go to quick guides and then module as built data.

You don't even have to log in for this.

You do have to put a VIN number and fill out a

capture, but you don't even have to log in.

This is all free.

No account necessary.

And you can get the coding that is for that VIN.

But here's why this is helpful because you can prove to

yourself and I'll explain where you would use this

information to help get the data changed, but you could

prove to yourself that like, Hey, the data in this

module does not match what it's trying to put in.

And what I mean by that is the amount of blocks of

coding, which is just a section of either four or

two numbers that are going to be in hex hexadecimal

code, they don't match the, the amount of data that

we're trying to put in to the module or sometimes it

is just the data itself, but usually where I see

issues is the amount of codes.

Like, and I realize you're listening to this audio

only.

So just think of if a module had eight digits of

code that I was supposed to be putting into it,

but the coding that is stored on Ford server is

only four digits long.

That's not going to work.

Right.

We're only pulling four digits.

What about the other four?

What is the IDS software or FDRS software going to

use if it's not complete on the server side?

And again, you can go to the website and you

can see, okay, this is what it's trying to put

in.

Now, the next part is, well, how do I know

what's in the module itself?

Now there is a way you can manually enter the

coding through IDS, but my preferred method, and

this is the way that I would suggest going to is

using a tool called for scan, the most hilarious,

or it's up there on the most hilarious scan tool name.

I think there's a Volkswagen one that's up there

too, but anyways, this is it's Russian made.

So you got to go out and find out how to get

a license.

There's been some issues with the sanctions

and stuff.

You can figure it out if you're persistent enough.

And for scan has been a really useful tool.

It's more user friendly for doing this type of work.

And it's been really helpful for us to identify

that like, hey, that's what's in this particular

module, but it needs to be this.

All right, or this is what's in this particular

module, but Ford is trying to put this in based

off of what the server's data says.

Okay, now what for scan allows you to do it?

Hey, have you ever been faced with the challenge of

sourcing, installing and programming a used

control module in a vehicle?

I know a lot of us have.

It seems to be happening more and more often

today with the volume of control modules on

vehicles, the cost of some new ones, or even

the availability of new control modules.

In some cases used may be the only option.

So what do you do here?

I strongly recommend checking out SJ auto solutions

and Tommy Oliva.

Tommy offers a cloning service for used control

modules to make these things plug and play for

the vehicle that you're working on.

In a lot of cases, he is also able to source

the control modules if you're unable to

locate one for the vehicle that you're

working on.

But once you get connected with Tommy, he's

going to offer fantastic support from start

to finish to make sure that that control

module is going to work in your application.

He's also got tech support that he offers

through his website, along with some free

resources there as well on information

about used control module programming.

So make sure to check out SJ auto solutions.

I can't recommend that enough.

Gives you an easier path towards clearly

seeing not only what the as build data is,

but the configuration, the amount of blocks,

right?

Is it four digits or is it eight digits?

And on some modules, like a body control module,

like we're talking of hundreds and hundreds

of lines of code that are going into this

thing.

I just we just went through this on a 20

something forward ranger where it was just

pages and pages of code.

But you could see all of it like you're

connecting to the module on the car and it's

spitting it out for you.

Now, not only can you see it, you can edit it

if you want.

That gets fun.

If you don't exactly know what you're doing,

you can definitely mess some stuff up.

But here's the thing.

You can you can save that and I recommend

you save it before you start changing

anything if this is your first time going

through, but you can save that data.

Why is this important?

Well, number one, if you're changing stuff,

you can always go back, but you could save

that out of the original module and then

put it into the new one.

You could save whatever coding comes in that

module from wherever it came from before

you change it with what's on forward server.

And what you can do is you can load that

server data right from forward server

onto forescan and then it you can write

it right through the software there.

And it's going to pull it from the server

just like Ford did.

So the data is wrong.

It's going to put the wrong data in and

it'll actually give you a warning.

You'll say the amount of blocks does not match.

And that's a good sign.

I have it a couple instances where it works anyways.

I don't have the exact explanation as to why,

but usually when it says that, that means

the data on forward server is wrong or

potentially you have the wrong part and

you should consider that.

That's a challenge that we're going

through on a vehicle right now.

It's like, is this the wrong part or

is forward server data wrong?

We don't have the original.

So it gets kind of tough to tell.

We're trying to do a parts number thing here

to prove it out.

But anyways, I shouldn't say it's besides

the point because it's all part of this.

The fact that Ford's server data can be

wrong makes us question what we're doing.

Right.

Us as the programmers coming in trying

to shove in wrong data to their new

power steering module that they put in.

Like that's that's on us to be able

to identify and then take the proper

methods to correct if we can.

But it could also just be a wrong part.

And if it wasn't for for being wrong

on a regular basis with what they have

saved on their server, I wouldn't even

consider it.

I just be like, yes, this is the wrong part.

But then also please for the love of God,

save the old module I need it.

And this job would have been done a

long time ago, or at least we could

have said one way or another.

Like, yep, this is the wrong part

because here's the data in the sun.

Here's the data in that one.

Anyways, four scan is allowing you to see

this in a lot more clarity, manipulated

if you need to in different ways, save it.

And then again, you can pull right from

the forward server.

You can type it in manually.

Four scan has some other stuff too.

Where number one, there's forums where

people have decoded this and they've

made spreadsheets.

So if you want to do certain things

like turn on a remote start, it'll

tell you what block to change to what

to activate remote start in that F 150.

There's also within the software

configuration built in where it

translates that coding data for you.

So you don't even have to worry about the

coding. You just say, yeah, enable

remote start or disable remote start

with a clip, click of a button and

writing it to the module.

Again, we're just turning on and off

different options that that one was

equipped with.

All right. So to the heart of this

issue, what do you do if you have

confirmed that the data on

forward server is wrong and you don't

have the original module to pull from

because that would be the easy fix.

Is well, let's just pull it from there

and put it into that one and we're

done. We don't have to worry about

forward server.

The path to fix this is filing

an S I R with NASDAF,

which is done through Diag.net.

So you have to have an account

there. And at least I think you

haven't have to have an account

there. I have an account. So I guess

I'm not 100 percent sure whether

you do or not. But you go

to Diag.net and you

search the NASDAF

S I R's and then you fill

out a lack of

information request, right?

You're actually posting, but within a

specific section on Diag.net.

Now this does require

number one that you fill out the

correct amount of information, like

get get some screenshots, get some

data. Here's what's on the server.

Here's what's in mind. Here's the

VIN number. Here's what we tried.

We were using this tool.

You're also supposed to reach out

to Ford before you

take this path.

I'll tell you reaching out to Ford

is usually pointless in my personal

experience. Hey, if you're out there

and you work for Ford, get a hold

of me. My emails and the show notes

you can find me on Facebook. I'm

sure that you find me some other way

to. I would love to have a chat.

I'd love to have you on the show.

Let's talk about it. Why is all

of the data on this server

wrong? Now I shouldn't say all.

But it's frequent enough where

I'm suspect when I'm going out to

program before like, Hey,

is this data going to be wrong?

Boy, I sure hope we have the

original module in case this data

is incorrect.

Well, even when you do have

the original, we ran

into a BCM on a

ranger, not that long ago,

where we were just doing

the configuration on the BCM for

another reason.

And this was just the existing

BCM.

Well, it turns out the data on

the server is completely

wrong. And this vehicle was

disabled after we ran this

configuration.

No going back because we did it

with FDRS

and we did not save any

coding beforehand.

That just that wasn't part of

our process on that particular

vehicle, which sure is now.

But it took a week for Ford to

fix it, which they did

by following that path by

filing the SIR with NASDAF

and then they get a hold of

the people at Ford say like,

hey, here's the problem.

Here's this VIN number.

Here's what we're trying to do.

Here's what's in the car.

Here's what's on the server.

And then they correct it.

You go back once they give the

thumbs up and it works fine,

which it did. So I mean,

thumbs up to them that they

can actually get in there and

they can correct it per VIN.

Do they go beyond that and fix

other VINs of similar makes

and models? I have no idea.

That'd be nice if they did.

But I don't know

what actually happens on the

back end there. Again, be

real curious if you work at

Ford and you can fill me in on

that. But I wanted

to just share this with

everybody because Fords are

very common. The programming on

them is very common. You may

have run into this before.

If you've got another work

around, I mean, let me know.

One of the things that we're

trying to do now, just

we've just recently started

this is trying to save

that as built coding on

modules through four scans

so that we have some built

up files. Now, is this

forward edge going to work on

another forward edge?

Again, that's tough to

say. But in some cases,

like a power steering control

module for a Ford Explorer,

it's the same number across a

number of years.

So if you had a saved file,

you might be able to use that

on a next one, even if

the server data is incorrect.

Now you've got a stored file.

You know, that's that's not

fixing the problem.

It's just maybe creating a

stop gap at certain points

if you're lucky.

It would just be nice if the data

was correct. But, you know, I

get it. It's it's a lot

and things are going to happen

and there's going to be mistakes.

But being aware of it is

the first thing, which is why

I'm doing this so you can be

aware if you're going into

Fords and you get

some configuration errors, you

get some failures, get some

weird stuff after you've

programmed and configured or

wrote the as built data module.

That data might be

incorrect. But do your legwork

to make sure that, again, you

have the correct part in there.

You've used the correct tooling.

You can go to that Ford website

MotorcraftService.com.

Check that data yourself.

Look at the data that's in the

module. If you have that

capability, again, forescans

great for that. There is a

manual way that you can enter

coding with IDS.

But verify the best you can

that, OK, hey, yes, this

data is incorrect.

It's a little bit of process

and, you know, the cars, if

it's a critical module, the car

is going to be down for that

period of time while you're

waiting for Ford to fix it.

But that's the known path

right now. So I want to share

that with everybody. If anybody

has got any better solutions,

quicker solutions, you got

any ideas or thoughts on that,

don't hesitate to reach out

and be happy to talk about it

with you. So that's all I got

for today. Thank you so much

for listening. I really

appreciate it.

Let's all get out there.

Start fixing the world one

car at a time.

322: Ford As-Built Challenges

Ford Expedition

Ford F150

Ford Ranger

Ford Explorer

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