328: Why Won't This F@%$'n Key Program?! Vol 2

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Hey, what's going on?

Automotive World, welcome to another episode of the Automotive Diagnostic Podcast.

My name is Sean Tipping.

I'll be your host once again for this week's episode.

Thank you so much for joining me.

It's me on the show this week, and we're going to do round two of why won't this FNK program

to the car.

If you've been listening for a while, I had the first version of this almost a year

to the day, and I didn't plan that out.

I was just looking because I knew I did an episode titled why won't this FNK program.

It was November 24th, 2024, so strange.

We had a few vehicles last week that were just a huge pain in the ass to program keys

to, and we do a fair amount of key programming.

It's probably somewhere between 10 to 20% of the overall volume of what we do, so it

is a smaller portion compared to diagnostics and programming, but it also kind of is programming.

If you think about it, just keys have their own unique challenges.

Number one being the key itself, just getting the right key, and I've talked about that

plenty of times before where that can be a real challenge, even if you've been doing

it for a while, even if you've got some good trusted resources, there are just so many

options for particular vehicles, and once you get into the European world, it gets

even more challenging.

That's its own discussion, which I've covered topics before, but today we're going

to be talking about pre-existing problems on a vehicle that had nothing to do with us,

and we're not affecting the vehicle as far as the customer could tell until we tried

to program keys in, so that's the challenge here.

We're coming in, car worked before, now in one case they had one working key, in

the other case it was an all keys lost, but prior to losing those keys, the vehicle

started, it ran, there were no issues apparent to the customer.

Now, in a specific situation with both of these vehicles, they would have

recognized the problem, but again, us walking into it, and of course we're

taking the customer at their word, but hindsight, I think they were honest

saying that, yeah, there were no problems with the vehicle prior, we're

very confused because we can't add keys to this vehicle, and so now we're

like, okay, is it the keys themselves?

Is it the tooling that we're using or the software?

Is there something going on with the car, or are we just missing

something completely and we should stop doing keys?

Now, I don't think that's it, but it makes you feel that way sometimes.

So I got two cars I'm going to cover today that we recently dealt with.

Again, pre-existing problems on the car, they were broken.

It just wasn't broken in a way that presented itself as a symptom

to the customer in everyday driving with functional keys.

Again, would have been specific circumstances.

So let's start out with 2017 Toyota Camry.

This is a used car lot.

They sold this Camry to a customer less than a month ago.

They've been driving it around just fine, and then they end up

getting it towed back saying, hey, it won't start.

There's a security light on the dash, right?

The Toyota has it kind of in the center stack there,

the little immobilizer light.

And I don't know if it was the driver of the vehicle or our customer

that recognized that it was a security issue, but they did see this light on.

So we get out there and we're doing some other keys on this stop as well

for this car lot.

And right away, almost immediately,

I recognize what the problem is.

Now, you can see, obviously this customer just bought the vehicle.

And they blamed it out, meaning that there are sparkly,

bedazzled stick-on rings and other pieces that have been put onto the dashboard and

doors and center console and stuff like that.

So I'm sure you've seen these.

You can order a big old package off Amazon.

And one of those bling rings goes right around where the blade key ignition is.

So this is a turn-style blade ignition.

It does have a transponder in the remote head of the key.

And it goes into the ignition and there's a short-range transponder

that communicates with the halo.

The car recognizes that, hey, the key belongs to this vehicle.

And then it allows a start.

Well, and if you haven't seen this, you probably will eventually.

They get these bling rings, they stick them around the ignition, right?

Where you put the key in.

Well, there's metal in this bling ring and

it interferes with the communication between the key and the halo.

So we see it and we're like, okay, that's it.

Because we've seen this before.

This is a common thing.

It happens and it will disable a vehicle.

And a lot of times customers don't make that connection and understandably so.

They probably don't understand how the key actually functions or

that there's a transponder in the key at all.

Now, for reference on this Toyota Camry, the key that they had,

they only had one, was just a transponder head key.

So there was no remote built into the head of the key.

Although the car did come equipped, or

at least the option to have a remote head key.

And what I mean by that is the buttons to lock and unlock the vehicle are on

the head of the key, there's still a transponder chip in there.

But the one that they had for the car was just a transponder, no buttons.

So anyways, mobilize the lights on.

We see the bling ring, I'm like, okay, take that off.

Take it off and immediately the key goes in and starts the vehicle.

Okay, problem solved.

Now, we did order a key for this vehicle with the remote head because that's what

the customer requested.

They're like, hey, when they called us, they said, hey, we've got a security issue.

We don't know if it's the key or not.

We'd like you to come out, take a look at it.

But either way, the customer would like a key that has a remote on it.

Again, because the car has that option and it's nice to have the remote

rather than putting the blade in the door every time.

Sure, so we already ordered this key, so they're going to be paying for it

one way or another.

And so we figured, okay, we'll just cut the key and then program it in.

Should be easy and we can move on.

Not so easy.

So we get in and we cut the key and we attempt the programming and

it doesn't allow it to go through.

And I was actually there with one of my employees.

He tried several times with several different tools.

And it seemed like it would work at times.

So he could actually get this thing to start and it would stay running.

But then after you would take the key out that we were trying to learn,

you leave it sit for a little while, you try to go start it again and

it was immobilized again.

And he tried several different times, several different tools for a 17 camera.

There's lots of different tools that you can use to program a key,

to add a key, it's relatively straightforward.

Now I should note there is a separate process for the immobilizer portion

of the key and the remote portion of the key.

But again, multiple tools, Autel, Top-Down, X-Tool.

Those are our most common ones, any of those should be able to do it.

There's more out there.

All keys lost is a little different, but just for adding a key,

especially when you have a master key.

And I should note that that's an important thing on a Toyota if you're

gonna be adding keys in or programming keys is to have or to know if you have a master key.

If you don't, there's some other processes that need to be done in order to add a key.

You can usually tell this by watching the security indicator and

putting the key that you have into the ignition, turning it on.

If the immobilizer light never lights up with a functional key,

it generally is going to mean that that's a master key.

You can also go into the data pits and

see if the key that is in the ignition is a master key or a sub key.

This one is a master key, and again, you can watch the immobilizer light.

Immobilizer light is really important on this era of Toyotas and

many others for programming keys.

You kinda watch that and you can tell if the programming of the key is successful.

If it likes the key that you're putting in, if it's a master or sub key.

If you understand what the LED does for the security indicator,

you can tell a lot just from that.

So anyways, the key that we have, the functional one, the one without a remote,

that is a master key.

Meaning that we should easily be able to add another key into this in

under five minutes with a scan tool.

But we do not seem to be able to do that.

Now, I got involved because I was working on some other cars so

we shifted and I try the same tools, I get the same result.

It seems like the key programs at times, but depending on the tool you get,

you either get an error or a successful completed, but it didn't matter.

Either way, the key that we were trying to add immediately after trying to

program it, it would start and run the vehicle.

And if you left it running, it would run all day long, no problem.

But as soon as you shut it off, and you did have to give it a period of time here.

I think it was until the module fully went to sleep.

But then if you went to put it back in, it would not work.

It would be immobilized.

You could watch the immobilizer light that it would blink at you consistently as

long as that one was in there.

And in addition to that, we tried doing the remote portion just to see like,

does it like the remote for this key?

And it would react to the remote being programmed, but

none of the buttons would work.

So when I mean react, when you go through the remote programming for

this Toyota, you hear the car beep as a response.

I think it comes from under the hood or something like that.

But you hear it beep, and

that would be the normal beep that you would hear if you were locking the vehicle.

And that's a response to say, hey, I see that remote, it's programmed in, cool.

But even after you did that, and you'd hit the buttons, nothing would happen.

It wasn't reacting.

So we do a little bit of digging to make sure that we have the correct key for

the car.

And you can do this various ways.

Again, we do a lot of keys.

We have some good resources that we'll use to verify, okay,

this is the correct key.

Obviously for the remote portion, we want the FCC ID to be correct.

But again, that seems like it's programming in, even though it's not

reacting to any of the buttons once it is.

But even besides that, the immobilizer portion of the key is separate from

the remote, it's two different things.

So even if I've had it on Toyotas, even if the remote's wrong,

you can still get the immobilizer portion programmed in.

And I don't seem to be able to do this.

I use the key tool Max and I read the chip in the one that functions and

I read the chip in the one I have.

They're the exact same type of chip, which is what we're shooting for.

If they're different, okay, that might explain why this is an issue.

I don't quite understand why it will run at first, but then afterwards,

it's not.

So I'm looking a little closer at the system, looking for codes,

obviously.

I didn't see any codes besides the fact that if once it was in the state

where it is immobilized, it would set a code for, I think it was unregistered

transponder or something that, in fact, basically didn't like the key.

Hey, you're trying to start me with a key that is not programmed to me.

I'm like, that's definitely strange.

Now, something that has been very useful to me with immobilizer systems,

I mentioned it before, is if you have an Autel IM series tool,

you can go into the immobilizer side and you can do the immobilizer system

scan, and especially on something, if you're not familiar with what components

are involved with the immobilizer on a particular vehicle.

But even if you are, if you just want a really good system overview,

that immobilizer status screen is really helpful.

It'll tell you a lot.

And it breaks it down of how many keys are programmed, master key, sub key,

all that stuff on a Toyota.

Now, disclaimer for Autel, if you're going to go out and buy an IM series,

they did take away some Toyota and Ford key functions.

And there probably will be more in the future.

So be aware of that before you drop the money.

But at this time of November 2025, they're still able to add keys to Toyota's.

They're just, they can't do the all keys lost function.

But the immobilizer system scan still works, at least on the 17 camera it did.

And it broke it down.

Now, here's where this was a little bit useful to me, is after I would

program or attempt to program this key, the number there would stay at one.

It never went to two.

Even when I was running the car with the key, I was attempting to program.

I was like, well, that's, that's very strange.

So then I did a little bit more work going into the actual immobilizer module

on the diagnosis side of the tool and looking at the data

pins as I'm putting different keys in there to see what it's viewing the

key that I have in the ignition as.

Now, if I put the functional key in the ignition, I look at the data

pins and you're looking at, I think it breaks it down into master key and

then subkey, it'll say registered key when I put the original one in.

It says master key.

Now, I take that key out and I go to put the new key in just to see what it

says, and this is at a point where it wouldn't start.

But I watched the data pit and it never changes from registered key even

when I put the other one in.

And if I'm quick enough about it, I can start and run the vehicle that way, right?

So it's like it sees the first key, it holds onto that data and it will

allow me to start the car if I do it quick enough.

Now, if I wait long enough with your, the functional key out,

it eventually goes to no key.

And then if I put the new key in, it will say unregistered key.

It's like it doesn't like it.

It's something about the timing and I think, well, that's very strange.

And this is about the time that I kind of start putting the pieces

together here is I have the door open on this vehicle.

And of course, when I have the key in the ignition, it's dinging at me.

When I take the key out of the ignition, it's still dinging at me,

like I still have the key in the ignition.

And I'll be totally honest, I hear dings from cars all day long that my

brain pretty much tunes those out most of the time.

I mean, if you program vehicles, if you do it mobile, quite often you're

sitting there with the door open and there's some vehicles that are

much louder than others and I'll flip the door latch here or there.

But then I forget that the door latch is flipped and then I close the door on it.

So I try to avoid that.

Anyways, I was just kind of tuning the dinging out.

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The link is in the show notes.

On this Toyota, if I don't have the headlights on and I take the key out of

the ignition, it should stop dinging because that's a warning that, hey, you

left your key in your ignition.

Don't lock your doors.

This never changed, meaning that at least what I'm thinking is that it's

thinking that the key is always in the ignition, that that master key never

left the ignition.

And so I find that data pit in the mobilizer module.

I see that the key in switch never changes states.

Doesn't matter if I have a key in out, doesn't matter how long I wait.

But here's the interesting thing.

I can put the master key that functions in and says registered key.

I can take it out.

Still says registered key, still says registered key and it'll hold on to it

for about 15 or 20 seconds and then it will go.

So there must be a periodic check to that key that only happens every

once in a while.

I don't know if it's a module timeout thing, but eventually it lets go.

But if you swap in the new key, which is cotton, it'll turn the ignition.

It's like, okay, yeah, I already saw a master key and it'll allow start.

Now a couple of ignition cycles or time and then you're not able to anymore.

But that's why when I was trying to program it and it seemed like it was

going, it really wasn't.

It was just using the data from the original key and I'm still starting

it. And that's why the tool would say failure to program.

And actually one of the tools that I was using, I think it was the top

done Phoenix smart gave me a different message when I was attempting

to program and it would say this key is already registered to the vehicle.

And I was like, okay, well, it must see that this one's programmed.

And it's just like, okay, it's already programmed.

But I did mention the number of program keys never change from one.

And what it was saying is like, Hey, you're trying to register

the already registered master key.

It's already programmed.

And so it was never seeing the new key that I was trying to program

into it because it never saw the key come out.

And if you're familiar with Toyota programming, the steps on this are

very clear that you have to turn the ignition off and take the key out

in order to advance in the programming sequence.

And this never happened.

So the reason is, is that key in switch.

Now I've dealt with this before on vehicles.

I had a Hyundai that was trying to program in a remote and the remote

programming actually happens when the key is out of the ignition.

Well, that switch, uh, because this was a stolen vehicle and they

kind of hacked apart the steering column.

They didn't install the switch correctly.

And so it always thought the key was in the ignition.

So it would not let you program the remote in.

So we had to fix that switch in order to program in the remote.

It was the same thing on this Toyota.

So at this point, I ended up taking apart the shell on the column.

And I looked in there and I see that there are two wires that are

twisted together and there's no key in switch.

It's gone.

It's not there.

And so somebody at some point took it out.

I don't know why, maybe damage, whatever, but I separate those

wires and the ding stops.

And so then I was able to just manually touch and release those

wires as I was moving keys in and out programs, new key, it's fine.

Now I mentioned the remote portion.

As soon as I separate those wires, the buttons on the key respond as well.

That car is designed so that if the key is in the ignition, it's not

going to respond to the buttons that you're pressing on the remote.

So all that made sense at that point.

And I summarized that in 20 minutes for you, that was closer to

an hour and a half that we spent on that car trying to add a key into it.

So in real world, we dumped quite a bit of time to figure that out.

Now, um, it is information that I really want to take with me and

be conscious of because I didn't think of the, to listen for the

dinging on that door to look at that data pit, but boy, it's

something that's going to be part of our process now is to make

sure that that like key in switch actually functions on a car before

we attempt to do any sort of programming.

Cause obviously that's an important input in the key process.

Now the customer never noticed an issue bling ring aside.

That was the first issue that was resolved on this one.

But prior to that, the car start and ran fine because they just

had a blade key with no buttons.

So they didn't know the remote functions weren't going to work.

And the car start and ran with the key that they had, they

just wouldn't have been able to add another key like we were

trying to do, right?

That problem, I mean, I guess it would, it would

ding at you anytime the door is open, even if the key's out.

Again, maybe you just don't notice that.

You just think all the car dings at me when the door is open.

But otherwise you may not never notice that there's a problem

with it as a driver of the car.

If the keys are already programmed in, but when you go

to program them, now we're presented with this issue that

we have to get past.

So anyways, that's first car.

Second car 2018 Chevy Malibu.

This one was also a giant pain in the ass.

Now this one was an all keys lost lost other keys car

function prior to that, no other history on the vehicle.

Like they've owned the vehicle.

They were they were driving it keys worked all functions.

And again, we're taking them at their word.

But afterwards, I believe that it was the truth.

That's what was going on with this one.

It's a push button start system.

There's a key slot in the center console.

There's a little pocket at the back of the cubby there

in the center console and this GM programming.

Very simple.

We've done tons and tons and tons of these.

The deletion picking the doors the hardest part of getting

the cuts out of the door doing the remote, you know, 12 minutes

you're in and out easy peasy.

Well, this one was not so easy peasy.

Set my employee out to attempt it first.

Wasn't able to do it wasn't able to do it.

OK, well, let me run out there.

I'll see what I can do.

Some different various tools.

I spend a bunch of time on this thing can't get this to go.

It is blocking me when I attempt to program these keys

and I even tried with TLC, which actually works pretty well

for key programming.

You don't need VSP or anything like that for general motors.

And I've had a few of them where I don't know, the

auto or the aftermarket tools just, you know, give me

hassle in trying to do an all keys lost.

But GM's program will work just fine.

But TLC did not work with this application either.

Still fought me and it was at the point where I was trying

to register the keys when they were supposed to be placed

into that pocket and you go through a learn procedure

where it cycles the ignition on and off and you're

pressing the button.

But basically at the point where it was supposed to

learn the key in that short range transponder pocket,

it would just air out so the key can't be learned.

OK, so back to the same thing.

Are these the correct keys?

Do our research, make sure.

Yes, these are definitely the correct keys.

I even tried making an auto universal smart key just as

like, let's try this because I've had auto universals bail me

out of some weird key issues before wouldn't let me still

failed. Same thing.

OK, so again, that that question mark of is my key

correct is always on my mind, especially with

aftermarket keys, right, because there are cars

out there where we've just had to pony up the money

and get the OEM key.

The aftermarkets won't work.

That's again, its own pain in the ass.

But from everything we can see here, these are the

correct keys for this vehicle, and I've not had this

type of problem using the keys that we get from our

supplier on General Motors vehicles.

So I'm going to do a little bit of digging on this

one just to see like what else is going on with the

vehicle. And my assumption was there was more

going on, and we just weren't being told the

truth. Again, hindsight, I don't think that's

the case.

I mean, there is something broken on this vehicle,

but again, same thing.

Customer probably had no clue that this thing was

broken, and it would have been a certain

circumstance for them to be able to recognize a

problem. No bling rings on this one, but it's a

push button start anyway, so you could put one on

there. You probably be fine.

Anyways, no codes in the vehicle.

Besides the fact that we were able to race

the keys, I think the BCM was in learn

mode. That was the code that we did have in

there, but nothing else pointing to an issue

on the car.

So I'm going through the process and I'm kind of

watching. And one of the things that I did

was I use my key tool, Max, and you can use

other tools for this as well. There's several

different tools. You can buy a little ring that

has an LED on it. You can use the Otel KM

100. There's a handful of other tools that

will detect an ignition coil signal.

So this could be for a blade style key or

it could be for the pocket for a smart

key. And you hold whatever tool you're

using up to this pocket, where the key is

in close proximity, and you attempt to

activate it, whatever that is, press the

start button, try to learn the key, turn

the ignition. That should trigger the

vehicle to make that connection with the

key with the short range transponder there

and the key ring or the halo, whatever

you want to call it. This one, it was

not OK, so I could sit there and I could

push the start button. I had no activity

there. I could attempt to learn the keys

and when it got to the point where it's

supposed to be taking the information

from that transponder, it's not doing

anything. OK, so I took off the back of

the center console so that I could

access this component and I see the

little ring that is on the backside of

that pocket, right? It's plastic, so you

can't see it from within the center

console, but on the backside you can

see there's a little ring that snapped

on there and it goes to a tiny

control module that's only a couple

inches that's bolted to the back of that

center console assembly. It's got two

wires going to the coil itself and then

it has a three-wire plug which goes to

the body control module. Now this little

module is called the immobilizer control

module on this vehicle and really its

only purpose is to run that key ring,

the halo, and get information from the

key in that pocket and then send

that information to the body control

module on a lint bus. So it's got three

wires, power, ground, and lint. Very, very

simple system, right? Now it does not

seem to be doing anything. Again, when

I press the button on the dash, when I

try to program the keys, nothing's

happening, nothing's happening, I don't

see anything. So let's check the circuits

to it. So I have ground, awesome,

that's what I'm looking for. I have a

lint bus which stays high most of the

time but I can get it to pull down low

like if I'm cycling the ignition or

pressing the button I see activity on

this lint bus and it does seem to be

coming from the BCM that it's there's

data being transmitted on there. It's a

high voltage gets pulled down low when

communication is happening and it is

only between this immobilizer control

module and the BCM. The wiring diagram

is very simple, just three circuits

right to the BCM. I shouldn't say right

to the BCM, there's connectors in

between but it goes to the BCM, it's not

connected to any other modules. Okay,

lint bus seems to be there. There is a

power wire as well. I have no voltage on

this. Okay, so maybe this is my problem.

Why don't I have voltage on this wire?

Obviously control module needs to be

powered up, whatever, you know to

operate and I have nothing there.

Okay, so I go to the body control

module which is really simple in this

one. You pull the carpet down on the

passenger side of the center console

area and the BCM is right there. This is

the third connector over from the left

and is the first three pins on the

connector. So really simple to find. All

three that go to this immobilizer control

module are next to each other on the

connector on the BCM. Again, power

ground and lint. And on the factory

diagram it shows you that the BCM

supplies 12 volts to this immobilizer

control module. It shows you right there

clear, plain and simple. Look the diagram

up for yourself. If you look up the

symbol on there it is straight 12 volts

from the BCM to this immobilizer control

module. Okay, I don't have that. There's

no voltage there. Okay, well here, that's

my problem. And I tried hitting the

button and all that stuff and no 12

volts on this wire. I'm like, okay,

well this is what's going on. So why

is the BCM not providing 12 volts on

the circuit? Okay, so obviously check all

the powers and grounds of the BCM. Step

one. Really easy to do in this one

actually. Just go down the row and you

can find all the powers and grounds.

They're all there. They all light a

headlight bulb. Pull the proper amount

of amperage. Okay, that's cool. Let's

unplug this connector from the BCM and

do a couple of things. Number one,

I want to see if this BCM can

provide 12 volts with this circuit

disconnected. Maybe there's something

on the circuit that is pulling it down

to ground. And when it's unplugged, I

check that circuit for a connection to

ground and I don't have it. It's OL to

ground. Okay, that's what we want to

see. And I also check the continuity

from that circuit to the immobilizer

module. Easy to do. I've got

continuity from end to end. That's what

I want to see on that wire. Again,

no 12 volts out of it. I don't have

a pathway to ground on that module or

on that circuit. And so I test the

circuit right out of the BCM. So I only

have one connector unplugged and you

do want to be careful here if you're

doing something like this because what

else is on that connector. But I just

wanted to see, am I getting

anything on that circuit with this

disconnected? And what I saw on there

was two volts when I would check that

circuit. I'm going right to the pin

on the BCM with this connector

unplugged. I'm only getting two volts

there. I'm like, okay, well, that's

an issue. And then if I plug the

connector in, it drops down to zero.

And I look at the diagram and I see

again, okay, 12 volts, you can look

at the service information for the

description of this module. And it says

it provides 12 volts to this circuit.

All data says the immobilizer module

also receives B plus and ground from

the BCM. That's straight from the

system description and operation. So

again, everything I'm seeing there,

I'm like, okay, well, this seems

like something's going on with this BCM.

It's not providing 12 volts on this

circuit. Now, the one thing I could

have done is tried to jump 12 volts

to this to see if I could learn the

keys in. I didn't do that at this

point. I'm like, okay, well, something's

up with this BCM. Let's get a BCM for

it. We had already spent a lot more

time on this car than I was looking

for. So it was like, let's get a

BCM for it and we'll move on with

our lives. So we get the BCM, new

BCM from GM, put it in there, and we

get the exact same thing. Can't

program the keys in. You can do all the

other BCM programming, but we are

unable to add the keys in. It fails at

the same point. It does not activate

the coil in the same way. And when we

check the circuit, it ends up being

the same thing. And again, I unplug

it. I get two volts on that circuit

and when plugged in it goes down to

zero and I'm like, oh, you kidding

me. Like, what's going on here? So

this is where I messed up here.

I did not do a thorough enough

check. I didn't think about this enough.

There was another check and

there's something about the circuit

that I didn't know. And now I do and

now you will. You can find this in

service information, but I don't know

how I would have if I didn't know

what I was looking for. But anyways,

here's the deal about this circuit.

And it says, the only place I found

this was in a DTC description,

basically the flowchart for

diagnosing the security data circuit.

So that's the circuit between the BCM

and this mobilizer control module.

And on number four, where it's having

you check for voltage on the power

wire, it says, note in some instances

the K9 body control module may only

apply voltage for three seconds

immediately after the ignition is

turned on. It may be necessary to

monitor the multi-meter while

turning the ignition on to observe the

voltage.

Okay, now number one, I couldn't turn

the ignition on normally with this one

because we didn't make keys programmed.

I could force it with the programming

mode, but I didn't do that while I was

doing my checks. And so apparently

two volts on this circuit in a

rested state is completely normal.

It will power up the circuit again

key on and I think what it will do and

what the other thing it will do is if

you're actually up there pressing the

button and it's triggering

the module to look for a key, it will

power up that mobilizer module.

At least that's the case on this 18

malibu because it doesn't send power

back to this thing until it needs to

operate it and check for a key.

Otherwise, it is just a two volt

bias, if you will. I don't know the

purpose of the two volts there, but

that's all that's there and that's

normal and that's how this one operates.

Now, going back to it being plugged in,

it drops down to zero. I'm like that's

interesting that that you know drops

down to zero after completing this

diagnosis. That should be at

two volts as well. It shouldn't get

pulled down to zero. What it ended up

being and what I did not check on my

first trip is that wire was

shorted to ground, but it was only

shorted to ground when the

connector was plugged into the BCM.

If you remember before I had unplugged

the connector, I had tested for a

short to ground. It was not there, but

plugged in it was and here's why.

The short to ground was actually on the

ground wire for the immobilizer control

module, right? So the BCM supplies a

ground to the immobilizer control

module through another pin that's

right next to it and that wire was

shorted to the power wire, okay.

Now, where this was was on a

connector under the center console

that a bunch of pop had been spilled on

at some point and after I looked at the

diagram like okay let me access this

connector. I pull off the center console

plastic. I see this connector it's all

full of pop, pull it apart, clean it up.

Now that short between the power and

the ground wire go away,

but again I never checked for that

the first time I was looking at it.

That's my, I missed that one for sure

100%, but with the second look I was

like okay after I clean that up

guess what that wire stays at two volts

until again you go to program keys, hit

the button, get that coil to activate

somehow and then the BCM will power up

the circuit and it will trigger the

coil to read the key and the keys went

right through. So on this one

again the customer probably had spilled

pop it looked like quite a while ago

on the center console and into this

connector and maybe other circuits

would have been affected.

Again I didn't have any codes

that I saw that were relevant,

but this wouldn't have been a problem to

them unless the key battery was dead

and they tried to put it in the pocket.

It wouldn't have worked, they wouldn't

have been able to start the car that way

but before they lost their keys

that wasn't an issue, their keys were

programmed, they worked in a proximity

mode, it was using low frequency

antennas and everything was good.

But when we went to do the all keys lost

that coil portion didn't work

because that power and ground to

the immobilizer control module

shorted together with pop

in I think it was

connector 300 right underneath that

center console there so that's a common

place if people are spilling stuff

it's going to get soaked with

whatever they're spilling on it.

So anyways those were two

rather frustrating vehicles

obviously on the Malbu made a bad

call before we got it figured out

but I thought it would be worthwhile

sharing and if you're doing keys

at all I'm sure you understand how much

of a pain it can be sometimes if

you're looking on getting into keys

just understand when keys go smooth

it's really good it's like printing

money but when keys do not go smooth man

it can be real real pain because

there's a lot of variables including

broken things on the car that weren't

even apparent to the customer prior to

you trying to add a key.

So hopefully you found something

interesting learn something out of

that but other than that like thank

everybody for listening always

appreciate it let's get out there start

fixing the world one car at a time

328: Why Won't This F@%$'n Key Program?! Vol 2

Toyota Camry

Chevrolet Malibu

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