7.3 Tuning Takes a Huge Leap Forward

Welcome to the diesel podcast presented by DFC diesel.

Bill and Angela, I'm looking forward to chatting with you guys.

They always enjoy our conversations about seven, three, six leaders, power,

hungry performance.

And then also we've spent some time talking about summit seven, three, and,

and some other things you guys are doing for the community and the industry in

general.

So I look forward to catching up with you.

No, the holidays are almost here and Q1 2026 is right around the corner.

And you guys have a lot planned.

So welcome back to the podcast.

Thank you.

Thank you for having us back.

Always, always a pleasure to be here and chat with you.

Yep.

Yeah.

Christmas is coming up new years, just right, right there.

So, uh, yeah, it's a, it's a mad dash to kind of close out the year here.

But yeah, Q1 is going to be really exciting next year.

We've touched on some of those products before a little bit.

And, um, you know, they were a few months back, but I'm not sure if we should

start with, uh, like the Cyclops or the Fickham tuning, or maybe talk a little

bit about, um, Summit seven, three, but there's so much exciting stuff coming

up here.

I mean, we're really quick.

Um, should we start with the products like the Cyclops?

Let's go do that.

So, so the last time we talked, we were kind of thinking of like kind of

redoing the hydrochip a little bit so that we can add the, uh, EAS connectivity

to the edge CTS.

Um, we have since found a much simpler idea, um, that does not require a

redesign of the hydrochip.

So anybody who has hydrochip, it'll still work with, which was what we were

really trying to figure out to get it to work and we did.

So, um, many years ago, we came up with a device called Cyclops, which was

a USB enabled device or Bluetooth enabled device that you could plug into

your hydrochip and control the chip off your phone.

Um, it was a fun product, but because it was not Apple capable or iOS capable.

Um, it really wasn't a lot of market for it.

A lot of people who run iPhones and they wanted to be able to do on that.

We didn't have the support for it.

So I just kind of, this fell off, off the chart for a while.

Uh, the device that we're making now is very similar to that.

Um, it'll be iOS capable, Android capable.

Um, eventually right now, our biggest focus is being able to have the

connectivity with the edge CTS and it literally, it's one plug in and then

you replace the ribbon cable on the other end with the device.

Um, so it works with the edge EAS system.

Yeah.

So you, you, the, and the, the CTS already natively supports that.

Um, it'll, uh, I don't know if I should say this or probably not say this.

Probably not.

Um, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it,

chip switching technology.

Let's put it that way.

Um, so it'll, it'll, uh, it'll work just fine.

Um, and then at some point down the road, we're looking, really looking,

expanding out the capabilities of, of the new device to be able to allow

Bluetooth support right into the chip.

So you can program your chip from, from your phone, um, or any, basically

any other, any other Bluetooth capable device, um, to be able to do data logging

right from the chip, um, data logging will be further down the road.

That's going to be that's going to require, uh, a hydro redesign right now.

We want to make something that existing hydro users can have access to

immediately without having to replace them.

Yeah.

So this will add a lot of functionality.

People can still have their gauges and they don't, and if they want to have the

little display button on the dash, that's fine.

They can still do it.

There's a, uh, a ribbon cable that we'll offer that actually just passes through

part of it connects to the chip to part of it connects to the Cyclops.

And then the cable runs up to your switch.

If you don't want the switch on there, you don't need it.

So there'll be a lot of options coming with this new product.

That is releasing Q one.

I'm really hoping late January, but yeah, we're looking at late January,

February, but it's, it's got so much potential and it's really cool.

I'm excited.

I'm excited to share that with the world.

Like, look what we made.

So yeah, because it's like with tuning other platforms.

Like seeing newer trucks, like, uh, uh, L five P or L M L or six, seven

comments or six, seven power stroke, all those owners have been used to the

functionality, the ability to data lock, do those things.

But now we're able to take that and apply it towards seven, three power stroke,

which we've talked to many times about the resurgence of them.

And I see it all over.

And so they get this infusion of technology as well.

Yes.

Yeah.

We've had, we've had people asking us for almost a decade now, or probably

over a decade, when are we going to be able to connect to the CTS?

Well, it's finally happening.

It's not that we haven't tried.

It's, it's, uh, there's just, there's just been a lot of politics behind it.

So it is what it's been.

Yeah, here we are, we're getting it done.

And so that's, uh, that's one product that we've got going.

We're very excited about the other one is, uh, we're looking at, at Q one again.

Um, having, um, our pass through device, uh, that will connect to your laptop.

Um, we'll be able to do a six liter ECM, PCM, six liter FICM all, all in the application.

Um, so it'll, it'll really, it'll really go a long way for like, particularly

people who do a lot of custom tuning or doing custom injectors where they can do

everything in one application, they can, they can get the ECM tuning they need.

So they get the turbo control, um, the fuel rates, timing and stuff like that.

But then also be able to program the FICM so that it works

correctly with the injectors.

And that also will eventually be app based as an option as well.

Yeah.

So it'll be, it'll be laptop based now, but we really want to get it.

So where it's app based and try to get away from the laptop

format as much as possible.

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How much does the app based tuning data logging that whole site of it allow

you as a tuning company and working with a really diverse kind of customer

based people that have trucks at toe, people that are racing kind of in between

being able to add that functionality, whether you have an Android or an iPhone

and then being able to give you the data that that you need to either see

and maybe they want to change something or they notice something.

Now they can record it, send it to you and you can actually see

the data right there and be able to make the changes or update something.

Yeah, it was nice, you know, having having different data logging

software where people could send us send us information.

And it was one of the things with with Orion on the Navistar stuff that we do,

we have really good data logging capabilities with that one.

So people have a drivability issue or something we're going on.

They can send us, you know, if they're getting DTCs, they can send us the DTC list.

If they have some kind of weird power loss, they can they can pull

injection pressure, pulse with stuff like that.

And we can see if there's things going on and try to walk them through.

Maybe they have a hardware issue, maybe a weak age pop or I mean,

you can even see things like leaking O-rings because the high pressure

oil will drop off.

And there's a lot of things that you can do with diagnostics on that.

And we're really excited to be able to carry that into into the 6.0 to be able

to let people go in there and do full data logging.

If they need some advice on the tuning or whatever application there is,

or you're doing, you know, like I said, towing, racing, whatever it is,

we can be able to look at a much, much broader set of specs and be able to say,

well, here's what we need to do.

We need to do this or you should be running this this kind of tuning

or maybe maybe need a different turbo or different injectors, you know,

whatever it is you're trying to do.

And then and then eventually carry that back into the 7.3 and be able to do

live data logging with the 7.3 as well.

But the technology shift.

So we came out with the Cyclops and was it 2018?

The Cyclops was long before that.

It was like 2015 2014.

And what cannibalized the Cyclops was not being iOS compatible.

And at the time someone thought, oh, no one really uses Apple.

And so it just wasn't it just wasn't a priority.

And then with the Hydra chip, we have, we would have customers all the time.

I only have an Apple.

I only have Mac.

What and so our son is our software engineer and he's been able to completely

rewrite the Hydra Flash software that we use to program the chips.

So it is I or you know, Mac compatible.

But then also seeing that is it pretty much 50 50.

It's about 50 50 between Windows based and Apple based.

But we also get quite a few phone calls of, oh, I guess I have to go buy a laptop now.

Because the shift away from laptops people will have Chromebooks of anything,

which our products are not compatible with.

And the shift has been fascinating to watch having, you know, seeing the diversity between

Android versus iOS and then Windows versus Mac and the shift away from it into all being handheld.

That's been fascinating to watch over the last 10 years.

Yeah, a lot of people don't want to carry a laptop around anymore.

You know, so, so a lot of people just don't they may they may have a desktop at home

and everything else they live their life on their phone.

If they have a gaming computer, maybe.

But yeah, it most people these days that we talk to either, okay, it's I'll pull

out my old laptop that I haven't used in five years.

Maybe it'll start maybe hopefully it'll start.

Or I guess I have to go buy a laptop or maybe a buddy has one I can borrow.

It's just it's been interesting to watch.

So it just really reiterates the need to make our products, you know, able to work with phone.

Try to stay as current on technology as possible.

Meet our customers where they're at.

I was just having flashbacks to some data logging.

I had to do a really long time ago and it was so inconvenient to have a laptop sitting in

my truck with all these cables.

And then you have to replicate whatever it is that I was experiencing.

And so that laptop might fall on the floor.

Yeah, and then it unplugged itself and then I missed the data log.

And so yeah, so being able to have it handheld is so fun in the holder and go.

Yeah, there anyway.

Yeah, and I think like to step back for a second as far as general tuning.

I love like having these episodes with you guys and talking to you about this.

Because when I think about the aftermarket, we have say a company that builds injectors,

they build those injectors, they ship them, you know, to the customer, to the shop,

they go in the truck, you have the turbo manufacturer, they're each kind of dealing

with their own specialty, but you guys deal with it all.

So you're dealing with the injectors, the turbo, the transmission, the electronics.

So you guys see and have so much experience with all of it.

Yeah, and it's been fun.

I mean, you know, we've been in this industry a long time and there's several people that

have been in this industry a long time and really do understand it.

You know, and you look at tuners like Andrew Arthur, Brian Jellish, Sam Wise,

a few other Texas.

Matt Reynolds.

And Lars.

You know, we both, yeah, we've all been in this industry a long time and we have a really

good understanding of how to make a lot of this stuff work together.

It's useful to have as much of the data as possible, you know, it goes back to data logging,

stuff like that, but yeah, but just having to be able to understand how everything works

together, how intricate some of those relationships are, it's sometimes a little tough to keep up with.

Has that been a big challenge with the tuning side with the advancements that a company is making,

say with their injectors and another one with their turbo where it's vastly different than,

say, what was on the market in 2015 or 2010 or whatever it might be and being able to tune

and give that either drivability or response or what people are asking for now.

Well, that's always been a challenge.

I would say for the most part, at least in the 73 industry and I can't speak about Cummins or

Duramax or even the later common rail stuff, you know, 64 or 67, but 73 and 60, the injector

technology on that hasn't really changed much recently. I mean, there are different combinations

of sizes and stuff like that. That's been pretty static for a while. The big thing is the turbo

combinations, you know, especially when you look at what Charlie keeps coming out with, you know,

he'll try, you know, a different compressor wheel or different exhaust, different AR exhaust

housing or just different combinations and see which one gives you the best mix of quick spool,

low back pressure, good boost, good airflow, low EGTs and it all varies depending on whether the

guy wants to tow, he wants a daily driver, wants good fuel economy, wants to go to the drag strip

on the weekend, you know, whatever he wants to do with it. That's, I find it a little more tricky

to keep up because that technology keeps changing. Is that where, is that where the handheld options

and technology is really going to help kind of get feedback from, not necessarily a shop,

because they're going to know exactly, like somebody like Brian Jellis, he's going to know

exactly, you know, what he's doing, how to change things. But like if I, if I bought a 73,

and I said, Hey Bill, I noticed something at this particular RPM, it's a little different,

I'm running this particular turbo where you're going to be able to see exactly what I'm talking

about and be able to get the truck running the way maybe I expected to or what I'm looking

to change. Is that how all of this kind of comes full circle? That's where, that's where that technology

is really going to help because you'll be able to go in and data log the truck and through the app,

send us the data logs, you know, we'll be able to look at it and say, okay, this is kind of what

we see, you know, is going on, you know, just, you know, to kind of confirm what it is you're

experiencing and what we're seeing in the calibrations and the data log. And then we would

be able to, you know, very, very quickly put together, you know, a tune that could address some

of that, send it back to the customer through the phone and then, and then very quickly be able to,

you know, update their ECM or update their chip without a lot of hassle, without having to go

find a computer and a laptop and try to find Wi-Fi somewhere and everything, everything off the phone

makes it so much easier. So if, you know, I went through this, I was actually a situation I was

doing with diesel site, Bob had a truck that, or an excursion that they did and it runs great

at sea level and the guy starts driving up into the Rockies and he gets about 6,000 feet and all

of a sudden it has no power and he's, he's like, I don't understand why he's doing this and I didn't

write the tunes but I told him I'd help him out but then it was like a two-day ordeal for him to,

you know, to get the chip, read the, read the tunes off the chip because the customer didn't

know how to do it and send me the files and I'm looking at the files and like, well, you know,

you know, here's, here's a few problems that I see in the calibrations and then I got to send it

back to him and then he's got to send the chip back to the customer and see if it runs right.

So it was, you know, that was a whole big ordeal or something that could have been probably handled

in about two or three hours if, you know, if we had this technology now. But also we're very

open source. I think one thing that will be vital is also putting this ability in the hands

of our vetted tuners that we trust out there. Yeah, and they will have access to all of that

where they can, they'll be able to, they can deal with that. Also help the customers. Yeah,

in general, we don't do a lot of custom tuning anymore. We work on the development side and

all the hardware and stuff like that and our base calibrations and stuff like that, stuff that

will, it will come delivered with. The more, the more custom tuning stuff that goes out to a lot

of the tuners that we have relationships with. And we love seeing them build their businesses,

like starting from just having their own truck and then tuning a few others and then now they're

very well known tuners. That is a really fun transition to watch and help support.

I'd love to spend a little bit of time talking about that because I think

like a dealer network is, it's so important like if one of them is local to

someone who calls in and they might not know the deep relationship that you guys have

with them. How did you guys foster and build that? How has it evolved over the years? And

then like you mentioned, Angela, seeing them grow and achieve this level or status in the industry

is I'm sure very rewarding and exciting for you guys. It's been, it's been interesting. Almost

all the really good tuners, I'd say probably 99% of them came out of people who were customers,

Andrew Arthur, Brian Jellish. I was writing their tunes years ago and

they were very excited about what it was capable of doing and were very interested in getting the

software so that they could work on their own vehicles. So they'd buy our Minotaur software,

they'd work on their own tunes. And again, like anything else, some people get it very quickly.

They understand the dynamics of it, they understand the maps, the tables and how it all interacts,

they pick it up quick and they are very successful with it very quickly. They have to understand

the entire system of the truck because you've changed this and it adjusts all these other parameters.

There's a lot of things that lay on top of each other and so you've got to be a little careful

about how you handle stuff. Brian Jellish, he built his truck using our tuning and then he

started doing his own tuning and was able to go in there and very quickly tweak and live tweak

certain issues that he was seeing, shifting issues, whatever on his race truck. And he's,

I mean, his truck is legendary. Everybody knows about his truck.

Tony Wildman was a customer who wanted to get into tuning and

Gearhead, Matt got in touch with us. He was wanting to learn more about the tuning stuff,

wasn't really looking to do that. But he got it anyway and turned it into a business.

And he built a huge company off of what he started off with us and they do a lot of

other stuff now. They use different software, they use SCT software and a bunch of other stuff.

But it's just really cool to be able to see how a few interested people who really love their

vehicles and get excited about the technology and what they can do with it, take the software

and then just run with it and then build a reputation for good tuning.

That's where with my journey with truck upgrades and getting into the aftermarket,

it was so crucial for me if I had a local shop that I trusted and would take my truck to and

I would ask them questions and say, Hey, I'm interested in this. What would you recommend?

And they would say, I love this brand. I run it on my own truck. I ran it for 10 years.

This is what I believe in. It takes all the guesswork confusion that I would have as somebody who's

not in this or didn't do a ton of research. When I can depend on that local source that I trust

for maintenance or upgrades and they're aligned with that brand. And I think it's a real key part

of the aftermarket and really a good experience for a diesel truck owner, whether it's tuning,

whether it's other hard parts, whether it's maintenance is when you have the manufacturer

and the shop work really close together. It makes it so seamless.

The other thing too is, we get a lot of calls. It's like, who do you recommend for custom tuning?

We ask them what they want to do with their vehicle. We have specific recommendations based

on what they want to do. But it's fascinating to me to go on like Facebook into the seven three

groups and Andrew and Brian and Gearhead, they do the same thing. They're like, what are you

looking to do with your truck? And they will recommend the same people. It's a very close

community. I don't know how many seven three groups on Facebook now. I've lost count.

God bless many for staying on top of it. But every one of them,

what kind of tuner do I need for my truck? You need a hydro chip.

They have the old TS switch and hanging out of the dash. What is this thing? It's garbage.

Throw it out and get hydro. We still love TS. We love TS and I love Dennis. I absolutely

love him. Those aren't my words. Those are other people's words. It's interesting to see how much

support that the tuners have in the community itself because everyone's gotten tunes from them

and you're absolutely thrilled with them. The tuners that are not successful weed themselves out

really fast. Yeah, you'll find out about bad tuning real quick. And the forum, Facebook groups,

they are not kind to people who do not show up. I think it's one of the most important

parts of the upgrade process that somebody might go through because if it's not done right, it can

be very, very expensive with repairs. But it's also something you feel every time you start the

truck, everywhere you drive, it's not like a bigger turbo where you only fill in a certain RPM

or an upgraded transmission where you're just doing it because you need a total power like

whether it's daily driving, towing, it's involved in your whole driving experience.

And so for me, it's always been the cornerstone, I think of making your truck run better and

enjoying driving it more has been the tuning side. And that's what we've tried to achieve.

That's what I've been trying to achieve for 28 years. It's not about making power all the time

because you're only at full throttle, just a small fraction of time. Yeah, I can

you can make 400 horsepower and that's great, but you're not driving it 400 horsepower all the

time, you're driving it 75 horsepower. And so then it comes down to what does it shift like,

how does it shift feel at light throttle? Is it too hard, too soft at mid or heavy throttle?

How does all that relate? How does all that interact? And it's always been our goal to

get the truck to drive as smoothly as possible, as reliably as possible, and still be fun to drive.

Not too touchy, but not too laggy or soft. There's a fine balance for everything on that.

That's what I really appreciate with seven threes, because to me, I've driven a few,

I've never personally owned one or had one. But doing the podcast, I kind of have,

I really pay attention to trends and what people ask for because it helps guide questions I'll

ask you on this podcast. And to me, the seven three is one of, if not the most reliable diesel

engine ever put in a pickup truck. And so when I talk with a seven three owner and enthusiast,

they're not asking me, how do I make 1000 horsepower? They're saying, I love this truck.

I want it to continue to perform the way I expect it. But I just need a little bit more at this

particular use or RPM or throttle position. And they're also extremely dialed in with their

maintenance, what kind of oil, you know, they understand the high pressure oil system and

feeding the injectors. And they're very in tune with what they need to do their truck. So I think

being able to combine that with really the experience, the time that you guys have had,

you know, in this industry, the quality of the tuning, the relationships that you have with

your dealer network, it makes a seven three enthusiast feel even more comfortable and excited

to be able to change the calibration from how Ford set it up in 2003 or 1999. They really feel

comfortable with it. It's, it's, it's a very different clientele, very different type of

truck owner. And we had 20 years ago, 20 years ago, it's like, Oh, okay, well, I'm gonna throw up

50 horsepower chip in there, 80 horsepower chip in there. And it does what it does and I don't care.

Because there weren't a lot of options. And the few options that were out there,

you know, it's like you kind of get what you get. And that's it.

Because anything's better than Yeah, anything's better to stop for real.

But as as time has gone on, especially, you know, with, you know, with SCT come out with

tuning software, our tuning software. And the customers have gotten a lot more savvy. And

I don't like to use or like picky or particular. But they understand better what they're feeling

in their truck and do their best to convey that to whoever's tuning their vehicle. So if there's a

quirky shift, there's a really hard shift at half throttle or something like that, they're gonna

talk to their tuner about it, and they're gonna get it fixed. We didn't have options like that 20

years ago. And so so it really did kind of change the market. But it's it's also taught us how to

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perfect fuel system upgrade for your truck. It's really the key and I think why a lot of people

are turning towards those older trucks, whether it's a primary or secondary vehicle or they just

always love them. We're so conditioned with the technology and the response and the quickness

of anything we order, anything we want to do as an upgrade. So to be able to take it and apply it

towards this iconic engine in this truck platform is so cool. And like I saw the other day and I

mentioned it before the podcast, you guys had a post talking about other Navistar engines

that you guys have options for and I think a DT 466 was one of them and I don't know a whole lot

about that but I know that there's been questions or somebody who's a 7.3 enthusiast might also have

these other vehicles with these engines and I didn't know that you guys offered product or upgrades

for those. So a little back history, so the 7.3, I mean it's a Navistar engine, you know,

Navistar were hand in hand for many, many years, you know, going as far back as the 6.9 in the

early 80s and then eventually migrated up to the 7.3 and then in 94 it became fair for half a year,

they had the turbo diesel but it was still IDI and then 94 and a half that came out with the

power stroke which is the Huey injected system. Navistar in their line for international trucks

also make a Huey injected DT 466, a DT 530 and then in 2004 they also came out with a DT 570.

All basically the same block, all basically the same board, the only thing that changes is the

stroke. So they went from 466 to 570 cubic inches. We've got a school bus that's got the DT 466 in

it which was the one we did on tour this year and then we have a 2005 sport chassis hauler

that has the DT 570 in it and that thing just runs so well. The interesting about...

anything. Yeah and it'll pull anything. The interesting thing is, you know, they're basically

the same fuel systems and in fact on the earlier, so up until 97 they were actually using Ford

computers in the Navistars. So the Hydrochip works on the... So the Hydrochip works on the 94 to 97

because Navistar followed along with the Huey injection in their trucks as well.

In 98 they branched off, they built their... had their own computer done for the 98 to 2004

and Navistar and Ford kept going with the computers that they use. The nice thing about the Navistar

one is it doesn't have a separate IDM anymore. It's all built in one box which makes it very

convenient and very portable for people who want to do engine swaps because the engine bolts right

to the... the computer bolts right to the engine and you have the harness that goes to the engine.

The only input that you need on the side is the throttle pedal, key and battery voltage and ground.

You can literally take an engine out of an Navistar and bolt it into anything. As long as

you've got a throttle pedal you can drive it. It will fit. It will fit. So it makes engine swaps

very easy too. So there's people that have swapped, you know, either from an Navistar to

a Cummins or a Cummins to an Navistar or whatever. They all use the SAE bell housing.

Everything pretty much bolts right on. They all use Allison transmissions or some, you know,

some kind of manual transmission. So engine swaps are easy. I'm a big fan of the DT466 versus

the 73 because Navistar also uses the 73. It's their T444. But I'm actually a much bigger fan

of the six cylinders because straight sixes, because of the way they fire, they actually

produce better torque for the same displacement. Their lower RPM engines, they have longer strokes

but they have a really, really strong, broad torque curve. But only up to about 24-2500 RPM

where a 73 can run to 3000 plus RPM. So it's a little bit different application,

but in a, you know, in a truck like that you're not looking for high RPM. You're not

running it around. You're looking for something that's going to pull and pull all day.

With that DT466, what kind of gains or changes can you make in that drivability or

that towing aspect to it? It's going to be very similar to what we see out of the 73.

There's a little bit more variance in the injectors that come from them from the factory. So

we have to look at a lot of the data that we get from the vehicle before we can make a tuning

recommendation. But we'll see, you know, on the 466 we'll see 125 horsepower gains over stock.

The very early ones, the 94.97s that we do the hydrogen chip on, it's about 80 to 100 horsepower.

And they work well. They were running smaller injectors,

volume-wise on the early ones. When they came out with their one box system, which has the

internal IDM, we were actually able to push those up to about 125, 150 depending on what

injectors they are. But the interesting thing is almost all of them started out at like 195

horsepower engines. There was very few that were ever over 200 or 230 horsepower.

For a medium duty truck. For a medium duty truck, yes. Like I said,

everyone all day, but you can't break them. There's no power. And that's the reason, you know,

we've been very successful with an Abastar stuff is because even if you just picked up 50 horsepower,

it's a game changer. I mean, that's, you know, 40% more horsepower than what you've already got.

One of the favorite tests we like to do or favorite way of demonstrating the added power on

these is a zero to 60. Do a zero to 60 stock, load a tune and do another zero to 60 and drop the

time in half. And what Vinny was saying when we did our trip around the country, because he was

driving that school bus, he was saying how when you're getting on the freeway, people expect you

to be crawling. And so people are moving out of the way. And it's, it's just a, it adds a layer of

chaos when these big trucks are getting on the freeway. And when you're able to accelerate

like a car and be able to get in and move out of the way and, you know, function like a vehicle

should, then it creates a safer environment for everyone. And so the, you know, yes, you do get

a lot of added horsepower safely, because these trucks were built for it. You can literally go to

the dealership and pay several thousand dollars, and they'll turn it up for you. It's what they're

designed to do. But, you know, being able to add this, this extra level of, you know, driveability

makes, I think it makes it safer for everyone. It does. When you look at this, the school bus

that we, that we bought for testing, our zero to 60 time on the school bus was like 38 and a half

seconds. And that is on perfectly level ground. We have a road right outside our workshop that

we can do. It was yeah, 38 and a half seconds by the time we got done tuning it. And granted,

I had it turned up. So this was actually a 250 horsepower DT 466. It's, it's actually, it's an

oh, the school bus is 07, but it's a five drive train. But it uses a slightly different system.

It actually uses about the same injectors as what's in a six liter. So it has the spool valve

injectors in it. It has higher ICP than the seven than the seven three style or DT 466 style

injectors, the earlier DT 466. And so we can actually turn that up a bit. So it started at

250. I had it turned up to 450 horsepower, picked up 200 horsepower on this, our zero to 60 drop

from 38 to 21 seconds. That's a big change. That's a big change. Now that was for play, you know,

just to show what could be done. I wouldn't push, you know, push an engine like that to 450 horsepower

about 400, 375. It's still a huge jump over what stock and it's what we can do and know that our

EGTs are going to be perfectly fine. The cooling system can keep up with the added thermal load

in the engine. You know, those are a lot of the little concerns. And then it's like, I get people

like, well, can you turn it up anymore? And like, well, yeah, we put bigger injectors in it, we can

do this and we do that. If your cooling system is not going to keep up. So that's one thing we're

working to, we are, we're trying to convince Mishimoto to take on this project. And Mishimoto

is actually looking at it. They're actually looking at doing a both a radiator and an intercooler

setup for the for the Navistars, because the factory trucks, most of them have a split system.

They have half of the front end is a radiator and the other half is the intercooler. And so

they're really limited on cooling capacity. So we're trying to find a way that we can get

something that'll bolt right in that will get you 40, 50, 60% more cooling capacity and intercooler

capacity. And then you can you can really turn these trucks up. I'm working with turbo manufacturers

and you know, we're in communications with a lot of different companies trying to build this

this setup that people can just install and get massive gains. I think that safety aspect, it really

really kind of reverberates with me because I've heard that from a lot of people just being around

diesel is they'll talk about towing and how slow it is to merge. And I think just having that little

bit extra or a lot extra and go from 30 seconds to 21 seconds is a big deal. It's just being able to

navigate traffic and how packed the roadways are and just being able to to do that. There is

there is like a safety and a convenience factor to having just a little bit more out of an engine.

Yeah, it really does help. You know, being able to pull a grade a few more miles an hour,

you know, five months, five, 10 miles an hour more, you know, faster than what you were doing

really does help a lot of people. And it if nothing else, it gives you the safety of being

able to feel like you can pass somebody if you need to and be able to do it safely.

Deal with angry drivers because you're doing 35 miles an hour up the hill and it's like

it's 65 dude get out of my way. And it happens and those are the kind of bad decisions they get

people in trouble. So anything that we can do to help drivers again, it's about improving the

driving experience, making everyone's life a little easier with how they can drive their vehicles.

But but at the end of the day still do it reliably.

I think it's really cool. You guys are you guys are investing time and thought and effort into

offering solutions for people that have that engine or even like we talked about in the beginning

with seven three and the six later. It's it's such a it's such a passionate enthusiast crowd.

There's a lot of people I see buying these I see a lot of them for sale.

Really clean. I just saw I can't remember the name of the diesel shop that I follow but

like I just bought a I think it's 97 you know power stroke and he was just kind of doing a

once over on it you know to assess the condition of it and I could tell that he was really proud

of the truck and it was something he always wanted. I don't know the story behind it,

but it's so cool to see this kind of innovation and time and effort that you're putting into

these trucks that people they really love them. It's just it's always as I mentioned before it's

always been something that's kind of took me by surprise is just the resurgence of seven threes

and I just love seeing this technology just being infused into them because eventually

you know one day it's going to be like this with the six seven power strokes and people are going

to be nostalgic about you know a 2011 to 2017 truck and some of these trucks I remember brand

new I remember seeing them they're now these trucks people want and so I love seeing the technology

you know that's there. I did want to ask you guys a bit about like as we head into 2026 some things

you guys are excited for whether it's products whether it's I know you're excited about summit

seven three but just things we should we should keep our eye out for as we head into the new year

as it pertains to the power stroke world. So we've got the Cyclops coming out we've got the

the pasture coming out you know and and again all of those things you know they're they're going to be

very basic functionality as we get them released. The nice thing about it is most of the stuff that

will provide it's it's firmware updateable or software updateable for more functionality

there's no more hardware to buy the updates are free you know once you buy the hardware that

you know we I've never been a big believer like charging for software if I don't have to

or charging for updates that ultimately don't cost me anything you know I want to be able to

roll that into whatever makes something more functional for somebody else.

We've got we've still got some some products coming out for the Navistar we've got you know

our development team working on that that's taken a bit longer than we had anticipated but it's

it's still moving forward we're very excited you know to get that released and that'll probably be

Q2 or Q3 next year you know before we'll have that yeah Q4 yeah we'll see we'll see taking a while

well now that we've got more engineers working on it I think it'll it'll move along a little faster

and then ultimately you know just being able to work on the relationships that we have

with with our tuning dealers and our the manufacturers who are coming up with new products

I just spent a few days up at CNC Fab with Corey and his team up there they've got some really cool

stuff and they're actually getting into the tuning because they're doing a lot of injectors

and stuff like that so here you know we've got them picked up as another tuning dealer

but it's it's interesting because they have the dynamic of not only are they a tuning dealer but

they're also a manufacturer so they'll have in-house tuning for their own injectors for their own

turbos you know their own H-pops whatever they're making they can dyno it right there and build a

combination and get the tuning spot on for it and then and then distribute it so it's those

kind of relationships that are really cool and I would really like to try to work with Charlie

a little bit at KC to you know to see if they've got anybody there that would like to get interested

in tuning and work with them so that they can do their own tuning instead of having to outsource it

to whoever they're using right now they're using a couple of different you know a couple of different

companies for tuning and I don't know if that's something that they want to get into if it's a

manpower thing or time thing or just it's just easier to rely on you know leverage somebody

somebody else's tuning but I'd like to start you know trying to build more and more of those

relationships because again it's there's a lot of products out there injectors H-pop turbos

engines anymore I mean the stuff that like Kill Devils is doing and Unlimited is doing you know

with just the engines themselves is fantastic and all of that needs tuning support at some point

so if it's something that either we can work with or get some of our tuning dealers to work

with or teach them how to do their own tuning we still need to be involved in that in that whole

process somehow and and we really enjoy those relationships which brings us to the diesel

alliance that is our community for basically the light duty diesel world anyone that has

any in any ways in the business of light duty diesel we have this community where we want

people to come in and learn and share everyone has their strengths and and everyone has areas

they can improve and that's why that community was built so that we can have these these conversations

we have our summit seven three so we can have face-to-face conversations we're looking to have

more events that are more you know broad diesel you know diesel alliance events maybe at UCC

something like that we're working on that but it's it's so important that we as an industry work

together have these conversations make these these collaborations and build the relationship it's

it's vital to the survival of this industry and you know so we talk a lot about summit seven three

and and that's very seven three focus that's very seven three specific um because that's

something that was always very close to us um but we saw the need you know broader need and that's

why we did the diesel alliance and that and that covers any light duty diesel if you've got a

commons if you got a Duramax you know everybody's welcome you know welcome to get in there and

you know ask questions get advice you know hey i got these new products you know what do you think

the market is for this you know whatever it is you know there's there's a lot of room in there for

everybody um because i just don't feel like over the years um the diesel market has been adequately

represented and we want to provide a platform in a community where where we where we can do that for

each other if nothing else communicate yeah i love i love it because sometimes i'll do a podcast

with somebody who's in the industry has a shop or something like that and they'll say hey i've

really got some questions about something where you have anyone i can ask like anyone that would

talk with me and i tell them about diesel alliance oh so because i think it to be able to connect

someone who's relatively new maybe not with their experience but in the business world

to a group of people that have been successful and been in it for so long it's invaluable and

i believe when we chatted about it when you guys first introduced me to it we had talked about the

the future and taking the lessons you've learned over 20 years and being able to help the next

generation coming up so that they can have a successful shop so that they can continue

to be able to help customers so that it can keep going so i've loved it i've i've sent people there

and i i agree with you bill i think it's something that's been really underrepresented

and it's it's so i think crucial crucial now i think between economic factors information

the age of the trucks the more that we can communicate and talk about strategies at work

or products that might work or just maybe have a product and there's another shop it's like hey

people ask me for this i'd love to sell it just that networking is so so important exactly well

the other the other aspect of it too is as these trucks are aging parts are getting harder and

harder to find information is getting harder and harder to find companies that you know provided

documentation and tools software stuff like that a lot of those companies don't exist anymore

and thank god for wayback machine because i use that all the to dig out stuff that i haven't seen

in 10 or 15 years and go man i wish i still had that software well there it is um but it just you

know a lot just and even just a lot of people who are in the industry that their knowledge they've

just retired or moved on or you know gave up or whatever you know and just and so we've lost a

lot of resources over the years and there aren't you know new people coming into it and there's

some very sharp people out there and they don't have any kind of a platform where they can they

can share what they have or share what they know or what they've learned or their contacts are you

know and so we want to you know provide as much opportunity for that to try to keep the industry

moving forward or at least just to prevent the industry from dying off because you know

it's not going to do anybody any good and these and the vehicles are still you know

that's never a big shabby guy or germax or dodge guy but you know every you know each brand has

their loyal followers and you know if we can keep interest in all of it it'll keep our part of the

industry alive well plus i imagine the the business side of it applies regardless of the brand or

year range of things that you guys have learned you could apply it towards a shop that might

specialize in germax or commons or or six seven power strokes and you know it's almost like two

things are are are having the same time one is the buying public is still buying trucks still

upgrading them but then on the shop side the demand is so high it's so the amount of trucks the amount

of people trying to find mechanics and people to you know be in your business is tough and so you

see the demand from the general public and the shops you know trying to keep up and so i think

that knowledge is fantastic something i wanted to ask you for somebody who's listening if they're

interested in diesel alliance like how can they connect with it how can they connect with you

guys on that business side the diesel alliance dot com perfect place that yeah the diesel alliance

dot com it's a it's a platform uh just sign up for it we're um we're actually getting ready to

um release the summit seven three replays it's taken way too long but we're getting

right there was there was a lot of sudden there was a lot of setup work that had to do in behind

a lot of back end stuff and so it's taking a while to get get that part of the platform

straight so but now we're we're gonna start you know promoting that stuff promoting your videos

you know being able to direct people to your podcast and stuff like that which you know all

of that helps the community but also it's a place to just ask questions or um hey my taxes are

ridiculous what am i doing wrong and who can you recommend and that's you and that's the other

side of it is you know i mean there you know we talk about the trucks and stuff a lot but it's

like you know but like you touched on you know there's business owners out there that you know for

whatever you know for all intents and purposes i mean they they they struggle but they've been able

to maintain a business but that only goes but yeah but after a while you either get too busy

and then you get so overwhelmed with the taxes it kills you um or you learn how to you know better

manage your finances and your operating expenses and stuff like that and that was one of the things

that i think a lot of people really get more out of some of those business class training that we do

at summit seven three than anything else and it's great to see some of the people up there and talk

about you know trucks and shops and stuff like that but we get you know some of some of the people who

have decades of experience running a business and and everything that it takes from from

HR management to financial management to investments to personal health just taking

time for yourself all of those things that nobody discusses and to be able to you know

provide that information we can do that on the diesel alliance and we can provide training and

stuff like that for people that was actually sports and yeah it's communicate be able to

communicate because none of us went to school for this yeah none of us went to school for finance

and HR and they went to the school to bust the knuckles you gotta learn somewhere well that was

actually the question i had from one of the guests was about insurance and they said hey do you have

anyone i can talk to about and i said i definitely don't know but i bet diesel alliance does because

there's a bunch of businesses that are there that they've been through it and can give you

some tips so it's so it's so helpful to be able to do that insurance liability insurance whatever

kind of insurance yeah i mean there's you know that's a you know that's a really difficult thing

for a lot of people to navigate they just don't know where to look yeah it was really cool to

catch up with you guys and i'm excited for 2026 with these products that you guys shared with me

um i know that seven three enthusiasts navisterr enthusiasts are gonna love what you guys are

working on and i want to connect with you guys as summit seven three gets a little closer you

guys ready to to talk about it i love how i've seen the evolution of it from you know how you

guys have expanded it yeah you know and have the day for enthusiasts but then there's the the

manufacturer you know industry partners and in the kind of connection so i look forward to to

covering that with you guys here after the first awesome awesome and we still we still have a plane

ticket for you if you want to hang out with us i think i think you'd have a good time i do too

yeah vini had talked to me about that as well and he uh he he's like man he got to come to this it's

so cool and i remember following the pictures and just seeing posts and stuff it's it's a top

it's a top event something i really appreciate and it was great to chat with you guys today

look forward to doing it here soon i'm excited for what you guys are offering for for the market

and what it's gonna be we are too it's been it's been a while since we've really come out with a

new product it's been a couple of years so to to have a few more skews in the catalog and you know

something that we can create a little buzz around and and and and get in people's hands we're very

excited for that so thank you patrick thank you guys for thank you for for all you do for us you

know we we greatly appreciate uh you know the time that you spent with us well i i uh i had a great

time today and i'll chat with you guys after the first year have a great christmas great holiday

season and uh we'll be in touch soon all right buddy take care of merry christmas don't forget

easel fans make sure and head on over to kershaw.kaiusa.com use code 20 tdp 2026 to get 20 off your

cart it's a great way to save some money get some cool gear if you're on the market for a new edc

knife something for hunting fishing around the job site around the house they've got you covered

with a bunch of different choices for blade steel blade shape different handle designs different

opening mechanisms and their whole lineups designed to meet any budget that you might have

so again if you're in the market head on over to kershaw.kaiusa.com and use code 20 tdp 2026

for 20 off your shopping cart also want to give a shout out to some of our patreon supporters

robert tsw diesel brian john all of our other patreon supporters all of you who subscribe on

youtube and podcast apps follow us on social media we appreciate all your support here in

year nine of the diesel podcast and look forward to bringing you more of the content that you want

to hear in 2025 till next time keep the shiny set up

you

7.3 Tuning Takes a Huge Leap Forward

About this episode

Cadillac CTS

ECM

PCM

FICM

custom tuning

fuel rates

timing

turbo control

Ford Orion

injection pressure

O-rings

data logging

injectors

Cyclops

aftermarket

transmission

electronics

Duramax

Cummins

compressor wheel

boost

spool

Ford Excursion

Dodge Journey

horsepower

7.3 diesel engine

Lucid Air

Navistar engine

DT 466

Power Stroke

zero to 60

radiator

intercooler

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