Annotations will appear as you listen
0:00
43:46
Term
a la carte system
An a la carte system means you can buy only the specific parts you need. Instead of buying one big kit, you can pick individual suspension pieces.
Term
upper frame bracket
A frame bracket is a strong metal mount bolted to the truck’s frame. The “upper” one holds the top part of the suspension so the wheels can move up and down correctly.
Term
lower link bracket
The lower link bracket is where the bottom suspension links attach to the frame. If it includes an integrated bump stop, it helps prevent harsh metal-to-metal contact when the suspension bottoms out.
Term
integrated bump stop
A bump stop is like a safety cushion for the suspension. When the suspension compresses all the way, the bump stop takes the hit so you don’t damage parts.
Term
Johnny joints
Johnny joints are special suspension joints that let the suspension move through its travel without getting stuck. They’re built to handle the twisting and angles you see off-road.
Term
hymes
Heim joints are strong, spherical joints used in suspension links. They help the suspension move smoothly through different angles, especially on lifted off-road trucks.
Term
aluminum links
Aluminum links are the metal bars that connect suspension parts. Using aluminum can make them lighter, which can help the suspension respond better over bumps.
Car
Wrangler Rubicon
The Wrangler is a 4-wheel-drive SUV made for off-road trails. In the podcast, it’s mentioned because people use it for trail driving and even do maintenance while preparing for or using the Rubicon Trail. The discussion also connects it to an off-road partnership or support program.
Term
Salisbury axles
Salisbury axles are a type of heavy-duty axle used in some trucks and off-road vehicles. Off-road people mention them because they’re generally built to handle tougher use and can be set up for stronger traction.
Concept
values on your vehicle
They’re talking about how to figure out what your vehicle is worth when you want to sell it. The key point is that what you paid or spent upgrading it doesn’t always match what buyers will pay now.
Car
Land Cruiser
A Toyota Land Cruiser is a rugged 4x4 SUV built to go off-road and last a long time. Here they’re talking about one that’s been upgraded for trail use, not kept stock.
Concept
How much you've spent on it has zero to do with what it's worth today
They’re saying resale price isn’t based on your total receipts. Even if you spent a lot upgrading the vehicle, buyers may not pay the same amount back.
Car
disco
“Disco” usually means the Land Rover Discovery SUV. They’re talking about how much they’ve put into it over time, and how that doesn’t automatically translate to a higher sale price.
Term
auto lockers
An auto locker is a rear- or front-axle setup that can “lock” the two wheels together automatically. When one wheel starts spinning, it helps the other wheel keep pulling so you get better traction off-road.
Term
hubs
Here, “hubs” means the parts that decide whether the front wheels are connected to the drivetrain. If they’re disengaged, the front axle can spin freely, which affects how traction devices behave.
Term
transfer case
The transfer case is the box that sends power to the front and rear axles in a 4x4. It’s also what lets many trucks switch into low range for slow, controlled off-road driving.
Term
limited flips
The speaker is talking about limited-slip differentials. These help when one wheel loses traction by sending more power to the wheel that still has grip.
Term
clutch style
Clutch-style limited-slip diffs use friction plates inside the differential. If you beat on it off-road, those friction parts can wear out sooner.
Term
helical limited flip
A helical limited-slip diff uses special angled gears to help both wheels work together when one starts slipping. The idea is that it can engage smoothly and tends to be more durable than clutch-based designs.
Term
wheelspin
Wheelspin is when a tire spins but the truck doesn’t move forward much. A good traction setup reduces how much wheelspin you need before power goes to the tire with grip.
Term
T case
“T case” means transfer case. It’s a box that sends power to the axles so the truck/SUV can run in 4-wheel drive or low range. If it’s turning, parts inside can keep spinning even when you’re only using two wheels.
Term
differential
A differential is the gear system that lets wheels on the same axle turn at different speeds. It helps the vehicle steer smoothly. In off-road situations, it can also affect whether power goes to both sides or just one.
Term
pinion
A pinion is a small gear inside the axle that helps transfer power from the driveshaft to the wheels. When it turns, it helps the axle gears move the truck forward.
Term
Detroit
“Detroit” usually means a locker differential. It behaves like a normal diff until you apply power, then it locks so both wheels on that axle can drive together.
Term
spider gears
Spider gears are the small gears inside the differential. They help the wheels turn at different speeds when you’re cornering.
Term
drive shaft
The driveshaft is the rotating shaft that sends power from the drivetrain toward the axles. If it isn’t turning under power, some locking behavior may not happen.
Term
two wheel drive
“Two wheel drive” means the truck only powers one axle. That matters because some traction devices inside the differential can act differently depending on whether the front axle is actually being driven.
Car
Jeep JK
A Jeep JK is a generation of Jeep Wrangler. It’s a popular off-road Jeep, and the discussion here is basically about whether a Jeep that’s still relatively “new” by classic-car standards counts as a classic yet.
Concept
classic car
A “classic car” usually means an older vehicle that people consider special or worth preserving. In this episode, they’re using age—about 20 to 30 years—as a rule of thumb for what counts.
Term
federal EPA standards
The EPA is the U.S. agency that sets rules for car exhaust pollution. “Federal EPA standards” are the nationwide emissions rules people use to decide things like whether a car must pass smog testing.
Term
smog exempt
“Smog exempt” means the car may not have to do the usual emissions test. The idea is that older vehicles were allowed to keep operating without the newer emissions rules.
Term
grandfathered
“Grandfathered” means if a rule changes, older cars can be allowed to follow the old rules instead of the new ones. It’s like an exception for vehicles that were already around when the rule started.
Car
Honda Civic
The Honda Civic is a small, fuel-efficient car. The episode mentions using the back seat to sleep while traveling, which shows how even a compact car can be used for “car camping.”
Car
Ford F350
The Ford F-350 is a large, heavy-duty pickup truck. It’s made to tow and carry heavy loads, and in the podcast it’s mentioned as a way to drive around a campground and move around easily. It’s basically the “big truck” option for getting around during a trip.
Car
Ford Expedition
The Ford Expedition is a large SUV made for road trips and carrying a lot of stuff. Depending on the version, it can also handle rougher roads better than a small car. The episode brings it up because it was used during an expedition/trail event.
Car
Jeep Gladiator
The Jeep Gladiator is a 4-wheel-drive pickup truck. It’s designed to handle off-road trails and still carry gear in the bed. The podcast mentions it because people build Gladiators for muddy, trail-style driving.
LIVE
Four wheel underground is making some big changes.
They really are.
What's really cool about what they're doing right now is they're kind of changing the
way the business is set in the sense that you get to now buy things all a cart.
Absolutely.
So if you want the upper frame bracket, you can just buy that.
Yeah.
If you want the lower link bracket because it has the integrated bump stop and it's super
stout and it looks really good too.
You can get just those before you would have to buy the whole kit.
Now you're going to be like, that's the bracket I want.
He's also brought joints in-house.
So now you can buy those all a cart from cartridge joints, rebuildable Johnny joints,
hymes, offsets, all sorts of different ones.
Do you know what else he brought in-house?
Aluminum links.
Aluminum links.
That's pretty rad.
He found a way to source aluminum links so that there's no extra charge on the suspension
kits. They now all come standard with aluminum links.
I know I'm totally jealous.
And thanks to the a la carte system, you can also order aluminum links if that's all you
want.
So if you want to move your Toyota from Lee Springs to a link suspension kit, check out
four-wheel underground.
We want to check with you guys today about On-X Off-Road.
Definitely one of our favorite apps for off-roading.
Yeah. What's better is not only their software, but they also are doing a lot to be a part
of the off-roading community here in the country from the trail revival program, which
I actually got to be a part of and use to do some maintenance on the Rubicon Trail too.
They have an elite partnership.
So if you are an On-X Off-Road user, you can go to any of their 40 plus partners on
there and you get discounts with any of those partners.
So from bringing the people to the brands, to the listeners, to everybody involved, it
sounds like they really want to be a part of our community.
So let's be a part of theirs.
Go download On-X Off-Road from your favorite app store.
You have reached the snail trail four by four podcast voicemail.
If you want to leave some feedback about Toyotas, have questions about Toyotas, maybe poke
some fun at Toyotas, or let us know how your JL came with a Starbucks membership.
Then leave it all on the line and we'll get to it on the podcast.
Keep crawling.
Hello, how are you?
Welcome to Bienvenido.
Snail Mail.
Snail Mail.
What's snail and a male in Spanish?
No idea.
Welcome to Snail Mail, everybody.
We could Google it.
Don't we have an AI producer somewhere?
Somewhere.
He's taking a nap.
What a jerk off.
We don't want to waste water.
That's fair.
All right.
So let's see.
We got, this is Friday's episode.
Snail Mail.
We have 47 voicemails.
Oh man.
We had 51, but four of them were suspected spam.
So instead of listening, I just deleted them.
Sorry if anybody ends up never hearing their voicemail.
47 voicemails, six text messages and let's see.
Next message May 15th.
I don't think we're going to get to a text message today.
We'll see.
So we ended at 30 38.
That doesn't sound right.
No, I did my math wrong or something happened.
We started at 49 last time and then we did four.
So we got down to 45.
I don't know why I wrote 38 and now we're up to 47.
So we only got two last week.
That doesn't sound right.
It's up to nine new male nine new voicemails.
Okay.
So 38 would have been right.
I think so.
Yeah.
So I don't, I must have had my start number wrong.
Okay.
All right.
Regardless, we're at 47.
I'm 47 now.
Okay.
And first up is our good buddy that likes to have, he has a really
sweet red first gen four runner.
Okay.
Do you know who it is?
No.
It has Salisbury axles under it.
Salisbury.
No, it's overdone.
Oh, yes.
See, thank you very much.
I was giving you the layup, Jimmy.
You were, I was, I was trying so hard.
I failed.
Sorry.
Uh, this is a long one.
Um, he timed out at three minutes.
So, uh, he did call back right away.
So we'll probably listen to both here and then we'll see what Don had to talk about.
Sounds good.
Hello, Nailman, your favorite Rover guy here, Rover Don.
Uh, right about now, you should be sitting somewhere in Nevada, finishing up
your, uh, your trail hero fun.
But, uh, you've got lots of phone calls recently, as well as some work yourself
with trying to come up with values on your vehicle that you're selling,
particularly a, a built truck like, uh, Kermit or, uh, somebody was recently
talking about selling his, uh, his Land Cruiser video built.
And, uh, you're basically pulling out the old spreadsheet, looking at every
cost you've spent on it and seeing that giant number.
Well, yeah, it's probably worth about half that.
Forget it.
That's completely irrelevant.
It means nothing.
How much you've spent on it has zero to do with what it's worth today.
I hate to say it, because if I added up all the money I've spent on my disco
over the years, I don't know.
I've had that for quite a while now.
I've probably got $75,000 spent on that thing over all these years.
Is it worth half that?
No, not even close.
Honestly, all you can do is look at the best you can in comps.
See what other people are selling similar.
You're not going to find identical.
These are all custom built trucks.
Uh, in my case, it's especially difficult because it's on the extreme end of what
Land Rover is getting built as, so it would be very difficult, but really,
that's all you can do in the years ago.
I worked in sales with yacht sales.
I would get customers that would come in, they've got a spreadsheet.
I bought the boat for $300,000.
I spent $200,000 in equipment and mods and maintenance over the years.
So it must be worth $500,000 now or $400,000 or what?
No, I'm like, that's great.
Thank you.
It's irrelevant.
It means nothing, you know, particularly when people are saying, you know, I just
had a customer doing something similar.
He's getting ready to sell a boat.
He sends a list off to his broker.
Broker brought it to me for confirmation and, you know, saying, Oh, I've got all
these new things.
I'm like, that's stuff that you've installed since you owned it.
Things like electronics and navigation.
That's like saying, I've got a new phone.
It's five years old.
That stuff's off sleep two weeks after you put it in.
There's a new version.
It would be great to think you could add up all your receipts and come up with a
retail value based on, you know, a percentage of that number.
I'm telling you, all you're going to do is get heartbreak.
Don't look at it.
Do not, you're doing this for fun.
You're getting entertainment and personal value out of this.
Some people go to the bar and drop 500 bucks on nice, nice drinks and some scars.
They'd like to go out to the clubs.
They'd like to go out to movies, whatever it is they do for entertainment.
They go on a cruise, whatever we do this, we spend money on trucks.
Luckily, we get so small percentage of that back, but you're not going to be
able to just say extra cent.
I'm sorry.
I wish it was that way.
Don't think it's going to happen.
Well, well, well, well, all right.
Continue on with Rover Don and then we'll respond.
Yeah, here's part two.
Hey, I got cut off.
I'm a long way to stop a bitch.
Anyway, I'll just leave that with a toilet suck and see you later.
Bye.
Damn it.
We shouldn't play that one.
Wise words from a first gen 400 on.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I, I, yeah, I, I agree.
I don't like it, but I agree.
Yes, unfortunately.
Yeah.
Yeah, you can.
And maybe that brings more argument to pulling the products off.
Yeah.
And selling them and kind of batching them out.
I'm batching whatever it's called.
Pieces, yeah.
And pull your old kit, lift kit off, put the stock lift kit back on there
and sell it as is because you might not be getting the value out of, you might
be able to get more value selling a used lift kit than you would has it
or having it installed on the vehicle.
Is it just worth your, are you going to increase the value or gains more than
your time is worth to take it off?
I guess that's always been my argument versus time.
Yeah.
Um, yeah, I, I mean, when it comes to Kermit, I know I'm probably not going
to get 40 out of Kermit.
I'm probably like 25 to 30 if I'm lucky.
Yeah, but I'm not willing to let it go for that low.
So I'd rather just hold on to him and let him turn into a yard ornament
that people get to use twice a year.
Yeah.
All right.
For sure.
I mean, it's going to, is it going up to PNW expo?
No, Kermit's not.
It's not running at the moment.
That's right.
Yeah.
Ooh, okay.
Yep.
So, yeah, I agree.
You got to look at comps in the market and see what other things are going for.
Now there's, if you have something like seriously special, that's how I desire.
Um, you could always, and really clean, you can always look at places like bring
a trailer that might bring a little bit more dollars to what you're trying to
get out of a vehicle by going to the right markets, but you still got to find
the right people, right?
That are going to be willing to pay that much for the car.
Um, and right now it's not a good market to be selling vehicles.
If you were trying to earn profits.
So, nope.
Um, yeah.
Thanks for calling in, Don.
Yep.
Thanks, Don.
Uh, this is, uh, a few Bob, I think.
Okay.
Here we go.
Hey guys, it's FQ Bob.
I was calling in to tell you one of the voicemails ended with the guy going to,
uh, B-dubs, B-dubs is Buffalo Wild Wings.
That's what everyone in the middle of the country calls it.
All right.
Have a good one.
There you go.
Yeah.
I think we were questioning what that was.
And they called in, we did have a few people message us and, uh, tell us what
B-dubs was that it's a term we don't use out here.
I guess.
Well, that's funny.
Mm hmm.
Uh, next up, uh, Holt from Washington.
Oh, okay.
New name.
I think so.
I don't recognize this one.
Here we go.
Hey guys, Chuck Holt from Washington up here.
I was just listening to your guys's differential episode and I wanted to
mention a couple of things, uh, regarding the, like auto lockers or
Detroit in the front, you guys were talking about, they might be a
decent option if you have hubs, but that is not necessarily needed because
they only engage or lock, like you guys were saying earlier, uh, well,
the pinion is under torque.
So if your transfer case can go into wheel drive, then it doesn't
matter if you have hubs or not, but if is disengaged, uh, as you guys
know, jeeps do not have hubs and I have Detroit in both of my jeeps and they
are totally happy driving down the road because they're not engaged because
there's nothing going up to the front drive shaft trying to spend the
pinion.
Uh, and then the other thing I was going to mention is, uh, it's worth talking
about the differences in the limited flips.
You guys talked about clutch style and in my opinion, those are about the worst,
uh, limited flips there are because the clutches wear out if you are doing any
kind of abuse, um, but a helical limited flip, it still operates the same, but
it doesn't wear out like the clutch style and they hook up much, much
better or it takes much less wheelspin to engage the, the opposite tire.
That's all.
Thanks guys.
Keep crawling.
Good info.
Yeah.
Thanks, Chuck.
Yeah, I totally, I forgot all about helical.
As soon as you said it, I was like, I can picture it.
So I picture the inside mechanism of the helical.
I didn't even know there was such a thing.
I just knew, I think I only really knew the clutch styles.
Gotcha.
Yeah.
Um, yeah, uh, that's a good, no, I did not know that helicals, uh, lock up
better and more consistent than clutch styles though, which is, that's great
info.
So, um, Detroit's in the front front.
Isn't like, I know that the glad eater, the, the Adventek 44 front axle, the, it
disconnects on the long side of the axle.
So I'm pretty sure that the transfer case is still spinning and putting
power through the pinion.
Yes.
Yeah.
I don't.
So Detroit in the front of an Adventek 44 would be a very bad option, I think.
Unless you unlock the hub.
Well, unless you unlock the hub, but I don't, if you're saying it
disconnects on one side, yes, one hub on the, on the axle shaft itself, on the
axle housing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and then that would just make it so if the, if the T case is spinning, even
in two wheel drive, and that would then put power to the axle shafts and if
you disengage the short axle, well, the, if the differential engages, if the
Detroit engages, it would put power to both of the axle shafts, but only one
side is attached to the tire.
Correct.
Yeah.
The other side just spins free.
So you would never really notice.
That's why some Jeeps were having the transmission catching on fire and
transmissions melting down when they're being towed.
That's the only time I heard that.
Max's Jeep did that.
Really?
Max, Max, Max, Max.
Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah.
His Jeep burned down because his transmission and transfer case got too
hot because it was always spinning even in two wheel drive.
Okay.
Yeah, that's right.
It did.
Yeah.
Yeah, I don't, I understand.
So what Chuck was saying though, and I'm not sure about the Jeep comment on how
that works, but Chuck was saying since the Detroit has to have force coming from
the pinion to engage, it didn't matter if you had hubs or not.
What really matters is if your T-case is spinning.
If your T-case is applying power to the axle.
Yeah.
In two wheel drive or four wheel drive.
Yeah.
Which makes sense.
I didn't know that that's how they worked.
I thought they engaged mainly from the differential spinning of the spider gears,
right?
Essentially, of the two axle shaft spinning differentially.
And I assumed that as well, but maybe it needs the power, force
coming from the drive shaft to get those engaged instead of free spinning one
side or the other.
Yeah, because if you coast around the corner, Detroit's don't lock up.
Correct.
They only lock up when you apply power.
Just about to say that.
Okay.
Yeah.
So I would venture to say that with most axles, you're probably okay with running
a Detroit in the front in two wheel drive kind of thing.
But I do know that there's some, the Adventek 44, I know for sure, has the two
wheel drive engagement is just, it connects the actual shaft on the long side
of the axle, I believe it is.
I think if you're going to run a Detroit in the front, you either need a
non-powered front drive shaft when you're in two wheel drive or manual locking
hubs that, and then you'll be fine.
If you don't have either of those or one of those, and you probably should do
more research.
Perfect.
Next up, Nick from Montana.
Here we go.
So, shit savers, Nick, just wanted to give my feedback on the takeover podcast.
Mike and Max, I think we could probably find a thick foot between you guys
in the episode, so that's great.
Speaking of thick foot, I could probably find thick foot scooter is faster
than Don could ever get to a fucking point.
So, that was fun, I enjoyed hearing about Land Rover ABCs and Wheel and Wind Whiskey.
The guy, whichever one he is, the one that sounds like the bottom.
Yeah, you know, you went from like a Hugo to a Hyundai to a Jeep, but you've never
had a reliable vehicle.
How the fuck would you know what a reliable good vehicle is?
Not anybody can just make something with 70 horsepower and over engineer it and
let it survive everything like Toyota can.
Watches, no, no, you guys are fucking degenerate and keep on staying for shit
with the firm and, you know, all I got.
Love you.
Proud of you.
Talk to you later.
I would hate to hear what Nick says about our podcast behind our mask.
He's calling into the all the other podcasts and talking about us.
Yeah, well, I know Wheel and Wind Whiskey has a voicemail and I know that
botches has a voicemail segment now, so maybe we'll have to just keep our
ears down and see what that says.
But damn, that was funny.
That was funny, Nick.
I lost it when he said the one that sounds like they're on the bottom.
Yeah, you didn't hear anything past that.
I don't know what else he said.
That was funny.
Yeah, thanks for calling in Nick.
Always good to hear from you, buddy.
Next up is D. O. T. Travis.
Dot Travis is from Texas.
Here we go.
Hey, boys.
D. O. T. Travis here.
I was listening to the snail mail episode on May 15th and you were talking
about the turning classic vehicles into rock crawlers.
And you said the Jeep JK is not a classic, but look, I get it.
I was born in the 90s.
Like my music that I listen to in high schools, not on the oldie station.
I'm still like 20 years old and 2000 was 10 years ago.
So I fully understand.
But a classic car usually is about 20, 30 years old somewhere in that range.
The 2007 JK is going to be 20 next year.
So enjoy that little bit of information.
And also, I guess I zoned out somewhere along the way.
But Jimmy Tyler, guys, thought some prayers like I had no idea.
I'm so sorry that a bunch of old people molested you anyway.
You guys have a good one.
Stay safe later.
I wish a bunch of old people molested me.
Is he talking about Nick or Don?
I don't know what that reference was to.
I lost that one.
Usually I can keep up on most of them.
So that if I don't get it, usually you can pull in and save the day.
But I'm bad at pulling in.
I only pull out.
I know.
Yeah, but that's not true.
I've won.
Yeah, I've won so far, but I don't know what that last one was.
I don't know either.
You may have to call back.
The O.T.
Travis call back and enlighten us on the last one.
So does that make Bobcat and Kermit classics?
Super old.
Yeah, I think the rule for California is over 25 years old, right?
I don't know.
Well, I thought it was over 25.
I thought it was the import rule.
I thought it had to be in like the 50s, 60s, 70s.
Yeah, I mean, Technic, if you want to go off of federal EPA standards,
it'd be before 76 or 76 and earlier.
That's federal, federal EPA is smog exempt is 76 or earlier,
I believe or 75 and earlier, whatever it is, 75, 76.
And when you, I believe when you're, if you have a 1976,
you have to have smog if you have a 75, you don't.
That's cause the, the EPA rules got launched in 1976.
So anything older than that got grandfathered in.
So you're smog exempt.
Okay.
I'm not sure with how that works.
I just know that it was a rolling one.
It used to be, it was like 1970, you didn't have to be smogged.
And then the next year it was 1971, you didn't have to get smogged.
And then it was 1972, you didn't have to get smogged.
But then when it turned to 75, they're like,
now we're going to do this every five years.
So then it went five years and then they were supposed to move
from 75 to 76 and they didn't.
And they just said, we're done with that.
Now, I think there were like too many damn old cars
are getting back on the road.
Maybe.
So, yeah, I don't know what the, the definition of a classic car is.
That's a good question.
I'm not a, yeah, I would take your word for it though, Travis.
So does that make me then a classic?
Yes.
You've always been a classic.
I'm not sure I want to agree with that.
I still think 2000s or 10 years ago.
I do too.
Oh, 100%.
And the period of time from like 2020 to 2025 never happened.
So, yeah, we all lost years when COVID hit.
All right.
Next up, Uncle Weirdo.
All right, here we go.
All right, Uncle Weirdo here.
If you have pure power, okay, power hookups, okay, you can plug
into and have complete power.
You might be glamping.
There you go.
I did it.
That's my X and I might add, especially if you have a trailer
and you plug into pure power, you're definitely glamping.
Like I said, that's my X.
That's because at that point you pretty much got everything.
Let's see.
I have to agree a bit with Rob on this one about.
Don't do that.
Let's call it the wine.
I know he just doesn't like wine, but also, yeah, that's just,
you know, kind of got green book.
He has a little bit.
He just doesn't like wine.
Little precious, but it's not me either.
But you know, hey, do you?
Let's see.
Moving on here.
I have to agree.
That episode had me laughing my ass off, by the way.
Last week, when I listened to this episode, I called Rob right away.
I was laughing so damn hard.
And I have to also agree that there are.
I think there should be different levels.
You know, box, wine versus expensive bottle one.
PBR or Coors, wine versus, you know, bringing a light, a nice stout.
I think that could make a difference.
Yeah, I kind of agree with that.
Let's see here.
I'm going to end it with a dumping glass on the trail.
Okay.
And guys bring glass bottles out in Rubicon and different trails.
Just makes a damn mess.
Okay. Bring cans or put your alcohol, toys and something different about, you know,
possible, whatever.
Don't bring glass.
Just out of the hazard.
But that's all I got.
Keep rolling.
Nice.
Yeah.
That was a record Rob called in and gave us a bunch of you may be glamping if you X.
If you do this, you may be glamping.
That was, that was fantastic.
That was pretty good.
So, you know, one of the, it was either the last episode,
Wheeling, Wine and Whiskey did or two episodes ago.
They tried it four months ago or?
Yep.
Pretty much.
It's, I think it's called putting camping to glamping vert to rest.
Okay.
And I hate to say this.
No, no, Jimmy, you can't say it.
No, you can't.
Okay.
Thank you.
They will never, they will never let us live it down if you say it on air.
I like their, I'm going to say it.
I like their, their thought.
It's like, so more or less the summary of that episode,
but you could go listen to it because they dive into it a little bit more
is if you have a tent, you're camping.
Okay.
If you have anything else, you're glamping.
What if you have a year like Horton?
I would argue that's a tent.
That's a tent.
I mean, it's got a wood fire stove and everything inside it.
It's canvas side.
Okay.
Canvas sides.
Okay.
And I think it, I think the rooftop tent, like my rooftop tent would fall under that.
Okay.
So a non solid walled item.
Yeah, that's kind of where, and then there are different levels of camping.
Like what if, so I have a tent, but I have a fridge.
Yeah.
They still, they're like, it doesn't matter.
You have a tent.
You just have a nicer and you have more amenities that are nicer.
Okay.
So I kind of agree with that.
Okay.
I kind of see that as a good, good idea.
So camping versus glamping only relies on your living quarters.
Living quarters.
Yeah.
So what if you are car camping in a truck with a camper show?
I guess that would be in their terms.
That would be glamping.
Okay.
I don't know if that's.
What if you're car camping in a Honda Civic in 1994, the back seat?
That's called homeless.
Okay.
But I liked that view.
I mean, it made it, it's simple.
It's not so like, what about this?
What about this?
So it is like, no, if you have a tent, you're camping.
And there's some fancy tents.
Yeah.
What if it's like there's a bunch of like canvas tents style lodge things at Yosemite
that people stay in.
You can rent out a canvas tent with the cots and everything inside it, like bunk bed cots.
Okay.
I've never seen that camping then.
I don't know.
You're on a concrete pad.
The only like the house, the housekeeping camp that I stayed in Yosemite had three walls
that were cinder blocks and a canvas top front.
How's that one work?
I don't know.
But you are at a camp ground with showers and bathrooms.
So I don't know.
I don't know if I, I don't know if can't do a fancy camp ground camp with count as camping still.
Uh, that's a good question.
Like man, take man's and need a lake campground at Lassen.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't really have showers.
I don't even need to bring food to that one.
All right.
Just go to the grocery store.
So funny story about that.
We, we brought the lance right and we were in a spot that, what did it say?
It said no trailers, I think on when we were signing up for the spot.
Okay.
And then when we got there, it had a big sign in the area that said tents only.
Okay.
And I was like, well, I don't qualify for either one of those.
Where's the glamping grounds?
Yeah.
How do we go glamping grounds?
So I, what we kind of came to the conclusion of is that they wanted to keep,
like by saying tents only, what are they trying to eliminate RVs?
Why an RV though?
Why eliminate an RV because you're going to hurt somebody else's feeling that
they're glamping more than you are.
I don't know.
I think they're just bigger.
They're bigger.
I mean, there's a bunch of, so you can have a, what if you showed up in an RV and camped in a tent?
No, I think my thing is mine is the campground is not built for an RV to drive around and park
into the parking spot.
And where if you're camping in a tent, you can drive your truck, a big ass truck.
You can take your F 350 duly up there, get around the campground.
You can take a big sprinter van.
Yeah. A sprinter van or whatever.
I think that it comes down to the size of the vehicle in some of those situations.
That could make sense.
There was a few, the campsites and the pull ins didn't look any that much different.
The conclusion we came to was that RVs typically have power generators.
Yes.
So they didn't want the, my guess is they didn't want the power generators
running in the tent only area.
There was a spot for the tents only people to have more quietness to be quiet.
And so I was like, I don't think we'll get in trouble then.
We don't have a power generator.
So we're just going to stay here and see if they approach us about it.
I don't know.
So did they ever come by the park rangers came by two or three times.
Nobody ever stopped to talk to us.
So I was like, okay.
Yeah, cool.
That works.
Yeah.
So I guess we were camping.
You weren't a trailer.
Yeah.
We were the trailer.
I guess that's right.
That would be my argument.
Yeah.
I'm like, I'm not a trailer.
Yeah.
So we signed up for, as not a trailer.
So that's not, I don't know if it's not my problem that I got here and the sign was different.
Anyways, a tenting, a tenting camping, glamping,
tent or no tent is that's, that's our drawing the line.
No, that's where they drew the line.
That's where they drew the line.
But I just, I thought it was a simple answer.
I'm trying to think if there's like,
tents, something that would qualify as a tent that you could say was glamping.
Yeah.
And I'm having trouble.
I think like, what about a permanent yurt?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, would that be like that has,
I don't think that follows under the category of a tent.
I think of a tent as a mobile, something you pack up and pack down.
Okay.
But it has canvas walls.
It does have canvas walls.
So would that be a, that's more of like a permanent shelter.
Okay.
That's a cabin.
That's a, that's a canvas cabin.
You're cabining.
Like, is there, I don't know.
I don't know if there is.
I'm trying to think of if there is.
I mean, they're super expensive tents, right?
Like a shift pod or whatever the other one is that are like thousands of dollars.
I don't know if I would label a shift pod as glamping.
It's a really nice tent, but it's still, you still have the same amenities as a normal tent.
Like I would, I would feel like a glamping tent would need to have,
like I almost think that the gazelle T8 is a glamping tent.
You have a lot more space in it.
You can stand up.
You have, you can set up.
What if your tent has rooms?
Yeah.
I feel like a hub tent with multiple rooms to it.
Like that would be in a whole bathroom room.
Like I think that would be a glamping tent.
Yeah.
I would want to see one of those.
I don't know if I've ever seen one.
I've, uh, I, when I did a lot of backpacking, there was a tent that had,
was sort of just like more or less looks like a, a cocoon.
And, and then they sold a bunch of those.
And the way that the door opened was on the front or the back,
or the, the thin side ends of it, right?
Sort of like the VL 45 plus, right?
Right?
They had the doors on the, the small ends.
But they sold attachments to attach one cocoon to the other cocoon.
Okay.
And so then you could set your tent up and set two tents up really close to each other.
And then you zip in this attachment so that it becomes one long tent.
Oh yeah.
It's like the international space station.
Yeah.
There's docking going on.
Perfect.
Thank you for that visual.
There you go.
Everybody, uh, if you are docking with your tents, you could be glamping.
That one's for Rob.
All right.
Uh, if you guys can think of any, uh, glamping tents to prove those other guys wrong,
I'm interested in hearing about it.
Should we do more?
Yeah, let's do another one.
This is Nathan is this?
Oh, it is Nathan from Trail Hero X.
All right.
Our buddy here.
Here we go.
Yeah.
Hello to the gentlemen, Nathan here.
It was great to finally get to meet you guys in person out there for, uh,
season two of Trail Hero Expeditions.
Glad it sounds like everybody had a great time coming out of that event.
Listen to your podcast.
It was nice to kind of catch more of your guys,
respectively with how it went during the event and trail and everything,
that we didn't see from the, uh, the crew side there while we were out there.
Appreciate you guys giving Susan a shout out there on the show as well.
She basically had a full-time job out there,
wrangling all the teams, keeping them surprised with those schedules,
really needed to be and stuff, but she absolutely killed it with that.
So, um, fun time overall.
You did mention getting into camp late that one night after having the, uh, the issue there.
Definitely was a little bit after, uh, 11.30.
Um, I can confirm that as the guy that was, uh, standing there waiting for y'all to show up,
but, um, still a good time nonetheless.
I really liked that camp site there outside of Stanpaolo.
But we had a nice little area up near the rocks where I kind of tucked the Jeep away
and set up our camp, so it worked out pretty well for us.
But all in all, I think it was a really successful event.
Love to get back out there in October for Trail Hero.
Um, if it is last year, I'm not sure if anything will work out,
but if I do, hopefully we see you guys then too.
Take it easy.
Nathan!
Yeah.
Nathan was one of our buddies out there.
It was great to meet you too, man.
And I don't know why I never put Mudhorn Gladiator and you together while I was out there.
Yeah.
I, like, you even have, we talked about Snail Armor and you talked about your panel,
and I never, never still put those together.
I'm kicking myself in the butt for that.
But yeah, it was great to meet you and your family.
Susan kicked ass for sure.
She, I very much depended on Susan for a lot of things.
So thank you, Susan.
Yeah.
And was it their autism awareness?
What they, I think it was autism awareness that they were out there for last time and this time.
So yeah, and your son has, I don't know if there's different classifications of autism,
but he's a silent or non-verbal autistic.
And to see you guys be able to go and do things like this
and be able to give experiences to your son like that just warmed my heart.
It was awesome to see you guys out there.
And, you know, I feel like a lot of people when they have a struggle in front of them
and a child like that is a massive struggle to be able to wrangle and deal with and,
you know, just have a hard time at some points.
A lot of people, I think just shelter in place.
Like they just want to, you know, like we need to make it through day to day.
And you guys are like, fuck no, we're going to give this guy all the experiences in the world
as much as we possibly can and get him out and do things.
And it was, you know, there was times when he was like whiny because he was in the sun
and he just needed shade over him.
But you guys picked up on it quick and we're able to deal with it.
And it was really great to see the whole family out there
and you guys being able to give opportunities to your son like that.
Yep.
I agree 100%.
It was fun watching the family interaction.
So you guys, how you were, I don't want to, not coping is not the right word,
how you were thriving.
You really were thriving out there.
It was really impressive to watch.
So yeah, I'm glad that you guys got to enjoy that as much as we did.
I am curious though.
How late did you come in?
By the time I was done with the interview, the wrap up interview,
and started cooking dinner, it was almost 12 30.
Dang.
And like everybody was pretty much asleep.
It was me and Isaiah making hot dogs or something.
I don't remember what it was.
A couple of people were standing around talking,
like the girls were right next to us.
We were camped right next to them, bucket list.
And so I think just because we were there making our dinner,
they weren't far in front of you.
They were not that far off.
Yeah, they did their wrap up right before we did.
But anyways, you were going to say you were curious.
I'm curious how everything went from the crew's perspective.
Were there any days or any issues where the crew had some major issues
and you guys had to overcome some stuff?
Because we never learned about anything like that of that happening.
So I'm just curious if...
Yeah, what was there a major issue?
Like was there a major malfunction on one of the challenges
that we never heard about?
And you guys had to figure out a quick solution to it?
Or was there a vehicle that broke down that nobody knew about?
And they needed parts from or something?
And I guess you don't need to go as far as say,
was there a big miscommunication between the crew and the team snail trail?
But you can just leave any of that information out.
How much was the crew talking shit about team snail trail for breaking?
Or just in general.
Or just in general.
All right, let's see.
We're at 30.
We got the next one up is Zach from Oklahoma.
It's a three minute.
Let's do it.
All right, here we go.
What's up, Jimmy and Tyler, Zach from Oklahoma.
Here to talk for more of a rant about AI.
Screw AI.
Also, apparently recently as of this voicemail,
Kevin O'Leary is trying to build an AI data center in Utah,
specifically in Box Elder County.
And no one in the county wants it.
Now, here's the other messed up part is it did not allow for public comment
for people to speak against it.
Yeah, no, it's messy over there.
While the proposed land is not BLM land, it's state owned land.
So they can do whatever the heck they want with it.
But that still should scare us as off-roaders.
Because if they're not allowing public comment and just letting a billionaire
from Canada come in and build something without any public comment
or any approval of any or like public approval or whatever,
that's kind of scary.
Because what if they come in and all public land and do this kind of stuff?
Anyways, from what I understand, it will be on its own power grid.
So it won't affect the power grid of the local communities in that area.
But because of their power grid, it's going to be gas powered.
So that's going to increase pollution significantly.
Maybe like two times the amount of the area.
I don't know.
I'm not sure on the number.
I kind of forgot.
But they will be tapping into their water supply,
which the area already experienced was drought plenty of times.
So that's going to make less water for the community to use.
On top of that, they're going to cut into the water supply.
Not good.
Also, on top of that, it's going to increase the area's temperature by like 28 degrees.
That's not good.
That'll just make the environment worse.
I don't know.
I screw AI.
But there is a light at the end of the tunnel because like half of the expected AI data centers
that were supposed to be built in 2026 have been cancelled.
And for some reason or another, whether that's because locals responded and said,
we don't want this or they're the power grid just can't handle it and stuff.
So yeah, screw.
Screw AI.
Did he call right back?
He did not call back.
Okay.
Screw AI.
I think that's a big problem.
I think when processes are not followed fairly, that's a huge issue.
Yes.
And if you're not giving people the right of public comment and the right to the locals that
live in the area say whether or not they want something there, that's a big problem.
It's not fair.
It's not just.
It's not accountable.
It's not responsible.
It's all sorts of wrong.
If it was really meant to be, then everybody would agree that they would want something there.
The infrastructure would be there or the data center would pour and dump money into that
local community to build the infrastructure better so that the local community benefits from it all.
That would be something that I think would be worthwhile and worth talking about.
But yeah, for this data center and I've heard this story before and he's not far off from
what I've heard either.
So this is one of those examples of corruption and bad things happening.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think I like the fact that the data center is going to do its own power system.
That was nice.
Now, it probably, I don't like the fact that it's going to be polluting.
I think it should figure a better way out, solar or whatever it is.
I don't have that answer.
I also think that water is an issue.
I think every data center, I think they need to figure out a better solution than water.
I don't understand why they don't.
And I think it's just because coolant costs more money.
And so they just use water and it's water is abundant and easy to get their hands on.
But the problem is they need to figure out, they need to be only allotted
so much water or so much coolant or whatever it is.
And they have to be able to clean and refine their own and make it replenishable.
That's my big issue with the whole water cooling systems
is that they need to make a way for them to recycle their own water
instead of pumping all new water in constantly.
That's bullshit.
And I wonder, I mean, I can't imagine, this is going down slightly another rabbit hole,
but I can't imagine that the watershed industry, the ones that are always up our rear ends for our
trails, is okay with them dumping water in down the rivers.
If it's not good enough to run through your computer system,
how is that going to be good enough for our fishes and algae and small critters
and anything that uses any of that water downstream?
I think, I agree.
And I think it'll come to a head eventually.
But you always see government policy trails behind the open consumer market,
private industry by quite a few years.
So, yeah, I think it'll come to a head.
And I think that it'll eventually balance itself out, but it's very imbalanced at the moment.
Yeah, so I don't know, you know this story, I don't know this particular story,
but I've been hearing a lot about data centers lately and how bad they are for the environment.
And I think we need to figure that out for sure.
But that's a problem.
And that's what I think humans are really good at, is solving problems.
Sure.
It's just someone needs to solve them.
Yes, we as a human species need to solve them.
So, I don't think AI is going anywhere.
I don't think it's leaving.
I don't think it's slowing down.
It's here to stay.
But we need to figure out, just like off-roading in that we've had to learn as an OHV community
how to off-road and recreate responsibly and sustainably.
I think AI is no different.
We have to find a way to make AI sustainable for everything.
Maybe AI can figure it out.
I probably can.
All right, should we call it there?
Let's call it.
Thanks for calling, Zach.
Thanks everybody for calling.
We really appreciate it.
We got through nine voicemails today, so that's pretty awesome.
So, what's that bring us down to?
We started at 47, so we're at 38.
Yes, sir.
Oh, yeah, 38.
Okay.
So, awesome job, everybody.
If you want to call in, though, and be a part of the snail mail episodes,
you can do so 916-345-4744, and maybe next week we'll crest 50.
We'll see.
We did blow right on by the text message, though.
We'll get back to that one next week.
You guys have a great weekend out there.
Stay safe.
We'll be having some fun out on the Rubicon.
Hopefully, we're seeing some of the listeners out on the Rubicon.
I know we had a handful of you guys that are heading out for Rubathon.
So, we'll see you guys out there and enjoy your weekends.
We'll see you Monday.
Bye-bye.
About this episode
Pricing and identity get tangled together as the hosts debate what makes a vehicle “classic” and how to value heavily modified 4x4s. They share a rule-of-thumb that “a classic car usually is about 20, 30 years old somewhere in that range,” then complicate it with EPA smog exemptions. The discussion also turns practical: “How much you've spent on it has zero to do with what it's worth today,” so they lean on comps and market realities. Along the way, callers add axle and drivetrain details.
Original notes
This Week’s Callers
- Caller 1/2: Rover Don calls in to talk about how to price a used vehicle
- Caller 3: FU Bob says BW is Buffalo Wild Wings
- Caller 4: Chuck Hult talks about Detroit Lockers in a front axle
- Caller 5: Nick from MT gives his opinions on the Podcast Takeovers
- Caller 6: DOT Travis claims that a Jeep JK is a classic
- Caller 7: Uncle Weirdo says Shore Power is Glamping
- Caller 8: Nathan Mudhorn Gladiator talks about TrailHeroX
- Caller 9: Zac from OKC rants on AI
Join Our Discord: https://discord.gg/yFyFFkQbuy
Come hang out with us on the SnailTrail4x4 Discord — it’s the easiest way to connect with Tyler and Jimmy directly, chat with fellow offroad enthusiasts, and get first access to Group Buys and Treasure Hunt token drops.
CALL US AND LEAVE US A VOICEMAIL!!!! We want to hear from you even more!!! You can call and say whatever you like! Ask a question, leave feedback, correct some information about welding, say how much you hate your Jeep, and wish you had a Toyota! We will air them all, live, on the podcast! +01-916-345-4744.
An alternative method would be sending us an email at [email protected] or at [email protected]. You can also find us on Instagram at SnailTrail4x4 or 4x4ToyotaTyler
Listener Discount Codes:
SnailTrail4x4 –SnailTrail15 for 15% off SnailTrail4x4 Merch
MORRFlate – snailtraill4x4 to get 10% off MORRFlate Multi Tire Inflation Deflation™ Kits
4WheelUnderground – snailtrail 10% off
Ironman 4×4 – snailtrail20 to get 20% off all Ironman 4×4 branded equipment!
Sidetracked Offroad – snailtrail4x4 (lowercase) to get 15% off lights and recovery gear
Spartan Rope – snailtrail4x4 to get 10% off sitewide
Shock Surplus – SNAILTRAIL4x4 to get $25 off any order!
Mob Armor – SNAILTRAIL4X4 for 15% off
SummerShine Supply – ST4x4 for 10%
Backpacker’s Pantry – Affiliate
Snail Trail 4x4 Offroad Podcast
Tyler and Jimmy: Off-Road Enthusiasts
0:00
43:46