951: Jaguar Yogurt, A Lotus Correction, The Luxury Theater

This is a car show, but it's also more, because cars connect us to every part of our lives. Families, careers, hobbies, and adventures we never expected, so you should have a car you love, and we're here to help. I'm Paul, I'm Todd, and this is the everyday driver, Car debate. We're back in the studio with an audio-only podcast, thank you guys for joining us for 9.50, the last podcast was nuts, it was that, they go so fast, we do the all questions live,

especially when it's non-car questions, we went all over the place, if you missed that one, go back and watch it on our Test Drive videos channel. Of course, the normal podcast feed has it as well, but we're back. One of the things that's funny about the way you and I cover stuff is we let the world of automotive happen, and then we comment on the news, as it happens, which means sometimes there's no news. We start a podcast and it's car debates, which we have two coming up in your questions, and thank you. And other times there's lots of news, and this is one of those, oh my gosh, the news. I just want to say thank goodness for Reddit. Oh wow, they see, that's not a

sentence I use, but okay, wait in with commentary that is hilarious, because we're talking about Jaguar introducing their new logo and branding, and I have been beating the drum for Jaguar to do something different, and they did. Are you happy about this different? Because you know, I'm just like what Jaguar decided to announce is just we're now a fashion line. Right colors, lots of diversity, no car in sight, if you dropped out of the sky and didn't know Jaguar was a car brand, you would leave that commercial convinced it is a fashion line. I read an article that said somebody,

on Reddit said it looked like a new line of yogurt, high-end Greek yogurt, Jaguar, Jaguar, or something. The new font has been introduced, along with the new version of the leaping Jaguar and the new icon symbol to altogether, but this doesn't feel fresh and new to me. It feels like something that should have come out about five years ago, maybe six, maybe longer, because you're right. It just does feel like a fashion show, and even though they don't necessarily

have a line of cars to go with it, on December 2, 2024, there are apparently introducing the new concept for it, and as best the internet can tell, it doesn't have a back window, just like the poll star, because you know, back windows are so last year. But yeah, it has the part line where it appears a piece of glass would go. So I'm wondering if Jaguar kind of knows they're going to get eviscerated for not having a rear glass, then they'll just say, oh, look, we replaced it with a piece of glass, and don't, don't,

don't you worry because, you know, we were aware of that all along, but the styling from what I can see in the teaser photos looks certainly different for anything Jaguar related. People are wondering if that's an air conditioner unit that they have installed instead of an actual car. I think it's remnant of the Chrysler Crossfire. That little shoulder thing they show looks like that could be. Tell me that's not the updated version of the Chrysler Crossfire. Like a large forward or a version of it. This image, it looks like that apparently Harry from Harry's garage

has seen the car. Oh, really? Because he was commenting when the whole thing dropped, he was like, I've seen the car. This is, you're going to feel better about the new new direction. Once you see the car, I'm like, OK, yes, because I mean, Harry does great stuff. And he's been in a long time. His opinion is absolutely to be respected and acknowledged. And I just think if you're going to come out with a new branding exercise, when you go to the Jaguar website, you have to click a button to get you to the new area because the old logo still exists with all their old cars. Sure.

As cool as whatever this concept will be, according to Harry, they should have at least something that's production ready. If you're going to do this is it, world, this is the new brand will come out with the new production ready car to buy. See the top left. The Jaguar logo is the old logo, the old logo top left. You've got to go to the new era website, which is entirely different, but there's no information on it. It's sort of half approached in the execution, but all the old cars are there is.

Those cars are going to get the new Jaguar branding. Probably not. But see, OK, I'm going to involve extra cost and time to install new branding on old cars that we know are going to go away instantly. I'm going to say something very pop culture related. And I kind of hate myself for saying it. But I'm going to say it anyway. All right, 60 million people roughly watched the Jake Paul Mike Tyson fight. 60 60 million. 60 million. OK. That is an impossible number in like,

global, everybody's watching the same thing. That does not happen. OK, that's like, and we were, we were two of those 60 million. We don't, we don't watch boxing either, but yet we watch. I know everybody that watched, we happen to know the company that was actually the events company behind it. Yeah, the level of work that it was astonishing. Yeah, yeah, the point I'm making here is what Jaguar has successfully done is the Jake Paul approach to, hey, notice me. And as much as you and I hate that and

you don't want to be known for that, it is wildly successful to just do something so outrageous. You get eyeballs. True. Yes. And in that regard, Jaguar has knocked it out of the park here, because all of the industry cars and none was going, what's Jaguar doing yesterday? When's the last time anybody cared? Everybody's going, what is Jaguar doing yesterday? And the last couple of days, 1963.

Well, every time they bring out a new pretty car, they always have the Jaguar e-type at the press launch. I mean, they've been looking backwards forever. This is 1961. They went so far. Yeah, they went so far into notice us, because we are a brand only that they didn't even put a car in the ad.

So my business school, as much as I don't like this and I don't, this is absolutely the school of no publicity is bad publicity, because now everybody that only kind of care Jaguar makes cars will be watching on December 2nd.

Yes, the care about cars will be watching for sure. Yes, fringe. That's right. Jaguar is a car brand. Aren't they? Why are they selling clothes now are watching on December 2nd?

Yo-guar. Yes, I think there would be a tasty new Greek yogurt. Well, you know, Volkswagen makes sausages. Maybe Jaguar needs to make yogurt. That's where we go.

You know, they'll be more financially successful selling yogurt than they will building cars, at least in the current business model. So they definitely have to do anything different. And I like that they're trying something different. I don't think this was the direction. I mean, I know this is the direction. I wouldn't have chosen. I was just thinking like the Jaguar you asked for. The animal is black.

Let's lean into like the cool performance racing, no carbon fiber high performance luxury. Like the car that Bentley would build if they put all their mojo into building the most lightweight two-seater cool car, you know, with all of Bentley's cool luxury and all that stuff. And then make it the lightweight, amazing driving machine. That's what the new Jaguar should be with this sweet logo and not this. Tell me this. No.

No one. The fashion is not for me fashion and yogurt. That's where we are. Oh, please know more news from Lotus. We have also read Lotus has canceled their plans to go full electric by 2028.

They are not recording the first, but they are short. You're the latest. It's interesting. The latest because yes. Well, here's the thing. I bought an Amira and I can't believe I have an Amira. I drove it today and my gosh, it's a great car. Anyway, but supposedly I bought the last

internal combustion engine from Lotus and now the no, I didn't really believed that I hope never did. I hoped it wasn't true. I really did. I just wasn't buying it. I kind of bought the car going. I think there's more internal combustion coming. They're

talking about leaning into hybrid. Look, this is exactly the release that Porsche did a couple weeks ago. This is something that is sweeping through the industry right now. Look, I have seen people very violently argue both sides of the

equation from, you know, why aren't we leaning into electrics more? Why are we going a half step to people that are going? Thank God that the world has corrected itself, but people didn't buy all EVs. No, and the infrastructure isn't there to welcome a bunch of people buying them. And so the market has spoken as much as we can make it a political reality. The market has spoken. Yes.

Manufacturers can't just charge ahead making products. Nobody's buying charge ahead. Thank you. Unintentional. But I think it's interesting that Lotus, especially considering Lotus is now owned by Glee as a Chinese parent company who is so very into EV for them to take any kind of correction. Porsche is less surprising to me for them to make any kind of correction at Lotus is really surprising. You and I recently saw the Electra, the big SUV. I was going to bring that up because I asked you what about this is Lotus? Nothing. The steering wheel looks like mine. Other than that.

It's the steering wheel. It's the same wheel. Nothing else. If you took the badges off my car and that car and said, are these related? You'd say, no, not in a tiny spit. They can't be. They aren't at all. No, nothing about them. So I'm very curious to see this means hybrids. And look, we've heard about hybrid sports cars on everything from the next Mazda Miata to the Cayman Boxster to the Supra to the 86. We've heard about hybrid versions of sports cars coming. If Lotus leans into that, I'll be fascinated to see what the result is. They've already broken the scale.

And I mean that on purpose on their latest car because the Amir waist 3200 pounds in the least weighed 2000. Lotus could go as far as 3600 pounds, I think, and still be on the lightweight end of the market, which is insane. So I'm very excited to see what this actually means. I'm also excited to see what this means to the life cycle of the Amira because the news up to this point has been maybe we should update it and offer another performance version and maybe going. But this was been the announcement. The announcement.

The announcement up to here was we released it. And then of course it took two years to come to the US. And we're only going to make it until 2027. And it's done. So what does this mean now? And I'm very fascinated to see.

I think it's interesting that they're just the latest. The way you termed it was just the latest companies in every CEO comes the realization that they need to rethink their business plans. The market correct itself, as we always said, we'll just see how things shake out. Let's have an even handed approach to things.

We got many, many emails when all of this stuff was happening worldwide. We were saying only EVs by 2030, only EVs by 2035.

We got I can't even tell you how many emails were people are like, well, I guess I'm buying my last gasoline car. We can go and I don't think it's going to move that quick. It is correct. Look BMW has said it GM has said it Ford has said it Porsche has said it.

This is going to be there's going to be corrections happening. And I come back to that word that tricky little word electrified electrification is not the same as all EV and welcome to the party Lotus.

Speaking of EV, Hyundai has just announced their 2026 Ionic nine three row SUV. I think it's concept car looking right now. But if you actually look at some of the models, you can tell which is the concept car because of the exterior mirrors.

But those mirrors that are on some of the photos, that looks pretty close to production to my eye. The windows will drop in the door. You see the exterior mirrors. Those will meet large certification requirements.

And they're doing this cool pixel lighting thing. I think Hyundai has absolutely nailed it because when you're tasked with designing a giant two box design to make it look interesting.

Look futuristic, but don't make it so off-putting. It says new technology, but it also, if this had a gas engine in it, it would still look interesting and worthy to drive. And you know what, that does look interesting and maybe fits my needs.

This is a car that I think defies the look of the powertrain and therefore will be successful because of it.

Well, these are the same kind of comments you made when we drove the key at EV nine, which clearly this has some some shared technology between the two and maybe some shared platforms and stuff.

Because this is the Ionic nine. We praise the EV nine because we said exactly what you just said. And that is it can have any engine. It wouldn't matter. It's a successful vehicle.

Yes, very curious about this Ionic nine for the same reasons.

The wheel arches are key to this and the over accentuation of those wheel arches has made the entire vehicle look smaller, but it's big.

It is very big. Yeah, it is big. It's three rows, which means it's almost like my expedition. There's still space behind the third row when you're using it.

You've got people in it. You know this is large, but proportionally, those wheel arches feel fresh. It feels interesting. There's two kinds of arcs here.

It's sort of the squircle arc like the C8 Corvette steering wheel, that squircle shape, but it's also a perfect round shape into it, that wheel arch shape into which the wheel fits.

They're using both to success. I just love that we get to use the squircle with a straight face.

Yes, it really is. You're absolutely right. We do it a lot.

This is the first or last time we'll do it. Yeah, for sure.

You know, I'm reading various stats and specs about it and seems like everybody gets it wrong up until when the car comes out. And even when it does, the actual testing which you actually get will be most important.

But I'm seeing 110.3 kilowatt battery and a claimed range from Hyundai's press release of 620 kilometers, which is about 385 miles.

But other places that I read are closer to 330, 320 miles on a full charge, of course, depends how much you're towing and how much gear.

It's so event-dependent when you're driving it's whatever, but this is one step above a concept reveal.

It's coming, but until it's out and we can drive it, it'll be interesting to see.

Yeah, all-wheel drive long range needs to be comfortable. And the styling stands out and looks interesting. It looks fresh, but not too gimmicky, not too flashy.

There's a lot of things that draw you in. You've got the first read, second read, and then you start looking at details, the pixelated lights.

I think Hyundai's design is feeling really fresh right now.

We just recently drove the 2025 Honda Pilot all-wheel drive black edition painted red, which was a little confusing to me when it showed up as the black edition.

Black edition, now in the brightest color that we offer, I'm sure.

That's okay. And I love things, and I gotta be honest, it looked great in red. It looked really nice.

It really did, yeah. I really like how it looks, but the black edition means the black 20-inch wheels and the gloss black,

grille bar and upper side mirror housings and the fascia ducts and the window trim and the garnish, all the garnishes are blacked out.

So, okay, cool little sportier look, and this was $56,130 with a 285 horsepower 3.5 liter V6.

It runs great. It drives fine. I like it fine, but I do feel like that engine is holding it back a little bit.

I feel like Honda needs to kind of catch up to what Toyota is doing and others and have a turbo on it.

I think with turbo punch, this would be a far more interesting vehicle, but it's fine. It drives fine. It's great. I like the styling.

I think it's a winner. We'll just have to see if it gets the same passport treatment with the cool off-roadiness that they just introduced for 2026.

That happened like a week or so ago. They talked about the 2026 passport, and it looks like a rugged Honda off-roader for the first time,

which suggests this pilot will look the same. Now, this pilot over its current lifespan has gotten a little more aggressive anyway,

but I'm sure it's to see if it goes along the lines of this passport, which does look like it's actually trying to compete for Jeep buyers,

which is a fascinating thing to try to do. I only do Honda great things.

I take your point. There is a question that this has been a tried and true engine and drivetrain, so will they continue with it?

There's the argument from both sides of the Jeep world. You can get a very capable Jeep Wrangler Rubicon with a little tiny four-cylinder in it,

and you can do any kind of rock crawling you ever want to do. Or you can go get the 392 and do all of that louder and more.

Are you suggesting Honda should drop a V8 in this thing? Sure. Honda V8 in anything sounds like a good day,

but that would be cool. They could certainly argue, naturally aspirated engine that's tried and true,

is going to get you ever where you want, or they could compete with the market and throw a turbo on it,

or even hybridize it. Hybridize it?

Yes, a little bit more initial acceleration. It feels a little bit sluggish, but it drives fine. It's really good.

And I think it's well priced. I think it's good.

All right, last piece of news. Before we jump into a couple of hard debates, hooked on driving upcoming events,

our last one in Northern California for 2024. Todd and I are both attending Laguna Saka on December 7th,

2024. We're there just in the afternoon. So if you're in the area, that is a Saturday. I'd love to see you.

Come on by, check out the hooked on driving event. It's a two-day, it's Saturday and Sunday,

7th and 8th at Laguna Saka. We really love that track, but we'll only be there just in the afternoon.

And I hope to see you there, hooked on driving.com for all of the upcoming dates for 2025.

They're all loading right now. All of our 2025 schedule is going live in the next week or so. So that's nationwide. It's very cool.

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Blake B is in Los Angeles and writes to us asking for a car with soul. Something with soul.

Well, and it's interesting, because Blake has, we'll get to his car history and his current cars in a minute,

but he has cars that are cars that ask a lot of the driver.

He likes cars you have to really drive, and what's interesting is his daily right now,

in spite of having interesting cars in his garage, is a Polestar 2.

And it works great as his daily, but that's not anything on his radar of a fun car.

His fun car is as everything else.

His wife also has a Kia Carnival that works all the time.

I mean, come on, I had to do it.

The Polestar 2 have soul, Blake.

Does that, I mean, not according to him?

Well, also according to your current garage, which includes a 2017 Morgan 3 wheeler.

Hello, that's got soul.

Yes.

Also in 89, Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera, yes.

And he said he's modified it dial in by air cooled expert Marco G at TLG Auto.

He's also got a 1963 Alpha Romeo Julia Sprint 1600 5 speed, tiny little thing.

And something that is currently being restored, he has a 1973 Citroen SM 3.05 speed.

By David Hume in Kentucky, this is the Mark expert for that car.

I am restored.

Those four cars in and of themselves, any one of them would be a, you're quite an interesting car guy.

He has all four in his garage, but that's not yet because he co-owns with a buddy

at 2007 Aston Martin Vantage 6 speed that he trades off every now and then.

That's the other fun car, which is a cool car, which is a very cool car just to have at your disposal.

And that's quote unquote the modern driver's car as those seven Vantage 6 speed.

So everything on your list there is very interesting.

Anything on your list there is a fascinating single fun car to own and you have all of them.

Also different, they do different things.

I mean, I think Blake, we'd all try to do the same thing if we had the means.

I'm noticing really when I look here again, I just said that the 2007 is the newest fun car,

but technically the Morgan 3 wheeler is a 2017.

But let's be honest, that's the design from like 1947.

So we're talking about legitimately the daily's, which is the 2021 Kia Carnival.

I can't do it without snapping. I'm required by law.

And then there's the 2020 Polestar 2.

Now that is a lease that ends in January, replacing the Polestar 2 because they have two kids,

six-year-old daughter, six-month old boy. His wife doesn't care about cars.

So she needs to be able to drive whatever he drives as a daily.

So it's not like we're seeking a performance enthusiast-focused car because we have those in the garage.

We live just north of Malibu, so they're in the LA area.

He works for himself three miles away from their home, so there's really no commute to talk about.

But this is the alt car, meaning one of the parents has the Carnival.

But then whatever car he has is the alt, so it has to deal with that.

And he has liked having an EV. He says it balances all their non EVs, which they have a lot of.

So he likes the low noise of vibration and harshness.

He likes the fact that it's easy to use an LA traffic, which he only has to do every now and then.

But he thinks it's awesome to have an EV in their life.

It's nice. And then he says something I find fascinating.

He doesn't like the constant no personality shove of an EV drivetrain.

But then he compares it to the same smooth flat torque curve of modern turbos.

He said he had a BMW M235i and he felt that power train felt every bit is boring as the EV shove, which is always a constant.

So we've kind of removed the fun of modern turbos off the list too because both of those don't have soul from a power train standpoint.

Granted, you own a Morgan three wheeler and a Citroen SM.

What if he got a Kia soul? Then he'd have soul.

He'd have soul. The soul would exist.

I don't know that we would have accomplished it, but it might work.

Blake says no Teslas.

Interesting.

He wants it to ride comfortably.

It needs to be less work than his other fun cars.

That would be any other suggestion we may.

It would be less work than the ones you currently own.

Half of them would be currently restored for a high dollar amount.

I'm sure.

He says ideally automatic so as wife can drive it.

And not financially flashy.

Is there another flashy description?

The pole star doesn't look like a cheap car.

Okay, so his current thoughts for what could replace the pole star too?

Starting out with the lucid air.

Blake rendered it on a trip.

He loves the ride in handling.

He likes the styling.

He likes the efficient packaging.

But he didn't love the visibility with his tall torso

and the raked, very thick A-pillar

and that sole-less drivetrain.

Oh, interesting.

Okay.

His father-in-law has trouble getting in and out, so he says maybe

but it leases well.

I loved your term.

If it doesn't do anything else, it leases well.

Well, but here's the thing.

I think he would like that more than your pole star too

and it would fill the slot of the pole star too very, very easily.

We're trying to ascertain a budget in here.

We don't quite know, but I'm wondering if the air pure,

that base level lucid would at $69,70,000?

Here's what informed me.

I'm going to jump in and we'll come back.

He mentions on here the Cadillac CT5V Blackwing.

You can tell that he's a car guy.

He said it's more than he wants to spend,

but he likes the idea of a manual in V8.

So I looked those up.

They started 100 grand and go up.

The way you're probably going to get it is over 100 grand.

So in my mind, you're right at the numbers, Paul.

And that is probably 70, 80 grand is probably what he's hoping for.

Okay.

So that was my guiding principle there.

Okay.

Well, Blake also mentions the Alpha Juleic Quadropholio.

Hello.

He likes the quick steering in his brother's Ferrari California T,

which he imagines is similar in the quad.

I think they're probably pretty similar.

Those.

I'm glad that's on your radar because that is a fantastic car.

Yeah.

Says he's always felt down by the interior,

but checks a lot of other boxes and he was thinking about one in green,

which you never see that gorgeous.

You rarely do.

I think they only sold it the last year that way.

So that's interesting.

Yeah.

Mercedes E450 Allterrain Wagon.

He says AMG cars maybe ride a little too stiffly.

He thinks for your daily purposes, I can see where you're going.

Okay.

Yeah.

He says Acre Integra Type S.

It would be stick.

So less than ideal.

And then he touches on the black wing that you mentioned.

The 1995 Range Rover would sold your bank account to the tune of replacing air suspension

and replacing everything.

I mean, your bank account would have a lot of soul.

Yes.

The car wouldn't.

I mean, it does have soul, but because it's a rain, you know, old rangey.

It'd be cool, but you'd be like, yeah, I don't, I don't think this is fit in the bill.

He is not a huge fan of SUVs.

Oh, he says his friend drove his wife in it and loved it.

But the negative is besides SUV is the lack of new safety features.

I mean, it's a 95.

That is an old range Rover at this point.

They're very cool.

More than they probably actually fit the bill here.

Blake mentions an E39 M5.

Sure you did.

He says it's probably a stupid choice.

Probably, but what a great choice.

He says he doesn't need needy.

Well, the thing is, you've got plenty of needy things in your garage.

This is your daily blakes.

I can't back that up.

And then you randomly say, hey, what about the Bentley Turbo R?

So you're clearly going to do that as a rental.

I mean, as a huge car.

Here's the thing I think is funny is I have a sniper shot for this.

Much of the stuff going on in here guided me.

And the only box that my sniper shot doesn't check is he was concerned about not being financially flashy.

But then his front runners are lucid air, clearly expensive car.

Julia Quadrifolio, clearly an expensive car.

Mercedes E450 wagon, subtle, but expensive.

Okay, the integral give you, but the black wing is expensive car.

An old range Rover is clearly an expensive car.

No one without money buys an old range Rover.

The E39, nobody knows what it is, but a Bentley Turbo R flashy.

Yeah, kind of flashy.

So I felt okay with having my sniper shot.

Okay.

But I think I have solved it with one choice as much as I like the Alpha Julia Quadrifolio.

And I think it's phenomenal.

I would not go with that.

I think we should hear your choice.

You're replacing a Polestar 2.

We're talking under a hundred grand.

Yeah.

You want it to be good to drive.

Rides well.

You like the benefits of an EV.

And you don't like modern turbos, which at that point I'm like, okay, for your daily

we're just throwing out soul of the drive train.

So what I need to find you is something where the drive train doesn't have soul.

But the car drives well.

Okay.

You'd like to have an EV.

Okay.

You want to replace the Polestar 2.

Wife needs to be able to drive it.

Again, I didn't have a car if I had the same one on my list.

I didn't accomplish not looking flashy, but my friend Blake,

if you look on auto-tempest right now,

and you set the maximum at $70,000, the max.

Okay.

The choice's nationwide of my sniper shot for you is a used Porsche Ticon.

One and done.

It'll drive better than the Polestar.

Okay.

It's a little flashy.

But everything on your list is flashy.

It is a little bit flashy.

Get it in a subtle color.

Can you get the sport toismo?

But you can't.

But you also live in the Los Angeles area where frankly,

Porsches are so common they cease to be flashy.

I'm sorry to say it, but it's true.

You're right.

So get yourself a used Porsche Ticon.

They have back seats.

They aren't huge back seats.

That's actually one of my only critiques of the cars.

The back seats are kind of small, but you have two small kids.

It's going to drive far better than the Polestar.

Your wife's going to be able to drive it.

They are phenomenal to be in.

They're good to look at.

They drive well.

It's an EV for EV replacement.

Used Porsche Ticon and I'm out.

And the ones you're finding for under $70 are like three years old.

That's a great choice.

Sniped and done, man. I'm out.

That's a great choice.

I mean, if only he could get the sport to resmo.

Which is cooler.

Which is sweet spot.

But he's going to spin more.

Well, yeah.

Blake, that is a great choice.

And Todd's right.

It becomes less flashy by virtue of there's so many others.

Yes.

Of course.

A Porsche 911 LA is common.

Yeah.

I didn't choose that car.

Although I have two categories.

Blake, I chose the gas column and the EV column here.

Mark it.

So for the gas cars, I had the Porsche Panamera sport to resmo.

Like a GTS because I just love this sport to resmo.

They're expensive though.

They're expensive.

Yeah.

I love them too, but they're expensive.

This is what happens, Blake, when you don't exactly put a number in here.

But even if you did, I'd probably ignore it anyway.

So no worries.

Welcome to the podcast, everybody.

Yep.

The GTS sport to resmo.

Any sport to resmo.

Okay.

Panamera, Ticon.

Doesn't matter.

I really like those.

And I think that would really be cool.

And then if we're going that direction, Mercedes makes a wagon too.

Yeah, they do.

And they kind of stop.

But it's that AMG E63 S wagon, which a friend of the show had for a long time.

And he really liked it and put a lot of miles on it, almost 70,000 miles, and it was superb.

They went back and forth across the country in that car.

They checked off national parks in that car.

Him and his wife and their two kids, they went everywhere.

He did track days.

They did cross-country trips multiple times.

I mean, the consumption was staggering when he especially went to a track day.

It was an amazing car to drive.

I inexplicably have Maserati Grand to resmo prices on my brain because I was just thinking,

you know, they're probably out of your price range right now.

And they're only two-door.

But they could really be a consideration, like once they become like 70 grand or 60 grand.

It would take long.

When those cars on that price, that's one of the best deals out there.

I think the engine will be fine.

I think the electronics will be all fine.

It's a brand new platform.

It's brand new everything, and it's all-wheel drive, and it'd be a good ski car.

The styling, I really like it.

I would totally own one of those.

And I can't believe I'm saying that because you're the Maserati guy.

But when those are 70 grand, that's going to be a really compelling car.

That's a consideration.

Is it not?

I hear you on that.

I mean, even the mode in a version which isn't, you know, the Trofeo with the higher power levels.

I think that would still be cool.

The lower power versions have plenty of power still.

Still, just under 500 or something.

Yes, so it's plenty.

But we'll move on to my EV choice that I think does check all the boxes.

It is flashy, but it's not financially flashy.

It's sports car flashy.

Well, look at you.

You don't need a huge range, and that's not what this car is designed to do.

It's not about range.

It's about more fun to drive, and Blake having a bad attitude is the wrong term.

But I guess I've had a bad attitude towards EVs in general because of the construction of the car.

And you're right.

They pretty much all drive the same.

They pretty much have no soul.

They're just kind of the same architecture with different styling.

Sure.

There's differences here and there.

Yeah.

But I was pleasantly surprised by driving this car.

Okay.

And I do think it's fun to drive.

And it pulls the motor sports enthusiast out of you.

And nobody around you knows.

Okay.

It is the Hyundai Ionic 5N.

I thought you'd go there.

Yeah.

They're 70 grand.

Yeah.

They're brand new.

I mean, our imagined budget for you.

For sure.

But brand new, sweet.

They're cool looking.

People ask about it, but it's not like, oh, it's not a Bentley Turbo R.

It's like, it's not.

Well, ha, ha, ha.

Like, look who's driving a Bentley.

Yeah, you're right.

You're totally right.

Like, it's a Turbo R is on the list.

All flashes out the window.

It's just happening.

Yeah.

It's a cool Hyundai.

And I admit it was kind of fun to drive.

We have a really good piece coming out on that early next year.

And I'm excited to share.

I'm going to share one little thing.

It's not really ruining anything.

It's just a funny thing that happened to both of us because I'm sure you've heard by

now that the Ionic 5N creates engine noise in the cabin, but it created a weird reality

for you and I while doing high speed driving for camera because when we drive high speed

for camera, we think about what's the engine doing right now and what sound is it making

as I go by.

Yes.

In this car, we're doing that because you can hear it in the cabin and the outside it

just goes, just because it's an EV, it doesn't.

There's no gear shift sound.

There's no engine.

You're in the cabin going, oh, that was a good downshift and the camera has no idea.

The person next to it, the light is completely irrelevant to them.

They don't even notice you.

No idea.

Which is not financially flashy, but inside you're like, yeah, did you check out that sweet

downshift?

Oh, you didn't notice.

I'll try harder next time, but anyway, Blake, thank you for writing.

If you've got a debate like Blake's, whether you want something flashier, you want us to

ignore your budget too, please write to us every driver TV at gmail.com.

Topic Tuesday's car conclusions, car debates.

We were here to ignore your budget.

That's our new hashtag, I love it.

The Hyundai Getaway sales event is on now with awesome deals on their most popular models,

including adventure-ready SUVs like the Hyundai Santa Fe and Santa Fe Hybrid.

There's also the stylish cilantro, packed with the latest tech, or go electric with

the IONIQ 5 or IONIQ 6.

Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-314-4603 for more details.

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Steven B. is in Maryland.

He is a photographer who drives a lot.

He wrote to us looking for confirmation back in 2023 that an Alpha Julia was indeed

as cool as it sounded, and he can report that it is probably we've said it, but anyway

onward.

Spring of 2023, he purchased a used 2019 Julia Q4 Ti with 30,000 miles on it.

It's been more fun than any other car he's had.

I love that.

That's great.

I'm thrilled to hear it.

But as he approaches 80,000 miles on it, it's time to look for a replacement.

He says he puts a lot of miles on a car in a year, because I'm looking at 80,000 miles

and going, it's been, he's barely broken in, but he mentions nothing here.

I want to point that out.

He mentions nothing about it stranded him or had an issue.

It's been great.

80,000 miles of greatness, it's cool.

Well he says he knows that any other car will be a step down in fun and style, but when

you drive as much as he does, you go through cars quickly.

Now Steven is thinking an EV might be a good move for him.

Drives a lot over the course of the year.

Most of his driving is around his home area.

He says about 150 miles would be a long day for him.

Most days are under 100 miles.

Steven's wife has an Audi Q5.

They use for road trips and family activities, so we're covered on that front.

Right now he's looking at used cars.

He'd like to keep the total price under $25,000 to qualify for the tax credit.

If they go new, we'll have to be on the low end of the price range as this is also a cost-saving

exercise for Steven.

Again, he'd like any new vehicle to qualify for that tax credit, so like the new EV Mini

Countryman is out.

There's lots of used vehicles out there that fit the bill, but he doesn't have any experience

with them.

His list includes the Machi, the ID4, Kona EV, the Bolt, all those fit what he thinks he's

looking for, and he says drive homework outside what are our thoughts in this market.

Steve, this is fascinating, because I got to this point of the email and realized with

951 podcasts, I think I may have a first.

I don't think I've ever done a podcast with two car debates and had two sniper shots.

I think I have one.

I have...

This is exciting.

I have...

I read this entire prep sheet.

Paul always makes prep sheets for us.

I read this entire prep sheet.

I didn't end up with a sniper shot for each person.

So I have a sniper shot for you, Steve, but I want to give you my fast version of the ones

you've called out, and then I have a car that solves your problem, that is just one and

done, solved it.

Really?

Okay.

If you're looking at used ones, I want to talk about the ones on your list.

The Machi worth it.

If that's interesting to you, go drive it.

It's worth it.

It would be a good one.

The ID4?

I just...

No.

Just...

They're...

Just...

No.

They're the...

Say the more, right?

Okay.

Just fine.

The Kona EV also fine, but frankly, I think I like the ID4 more, and it's the epitome

of fine.

And you said no to the ID4.

Exactly.

Let's see where you're going.

Here's the thing.

The bolt, not flashy at all.

Not good looking at all, but does its job incredibly well.

Watch our old bolt versus Model 3 piece that we did when the Model 3 first came out and

the bolt was brand new.

You just...

The bolt just works.

It's just a car that works, and it has a surprising amount of power.

Has that little, like, city run-about chuck ability that makes it fun, but none of those

are my sniper shot.

Okay.

I'm excited.

$25,000 budget.

I'm not even going that high.

You can get the nicest one on the planet for $25 grand.

The key thing you said here is you're coming out of something that was rear-wheeled all-wheel

drive and fun.

You don't think you can have any fun in the EV space.

But you enjoyed the uniqueness of that alpha, okay?

And generally, you use 100 miles.

About 100 miles.

Maybe 150.

Yeah.

So you don't need long range.

I've got you solved really with a BMW i3.

Really?

They have rear-wheel drive.

You can get them with the range extender, which means they have the generator gas engine

in the back.

The nicest ones out there are less than $25 grand, and they have a 100-mile range on

just EV.

You get the range extender, and it pushes as far as you need to go today.

Do you find a lot of the used ones have the range, because you had to buy that separately.

Do they have them already?

Yes.

Yes, yes.

And that's the thing.

You get the later model ones, the range extender ones.

Those are the most expensive ones out there that are run on either side of $20 grand.

So you can get the nicest one out there for $25, a late model version.

They did a nice refining halfway through.

Can you tell I looked at these?

A nice refining halfway through.

With the range extender.

I'm telling you.

BMW i3 is the unique, interesting EV in your space with your budget.

And I'm out.

Again, two sniper shots and I'm done.

I have never worked.

I have never done less car recommending than I have on this podcast.

One and done.

Amazing.

Okay.

I like it.

Steven, that's an excellent choice.

I appreciate that you find something, and you want to drive it.

Is it even worth considering another Julia?

If you liked them so much and you're just worried about maintenance, get another one with

lower miles and keep driving.

If you're not done with them, I mean, that's just sort of the obvious choice to me.

Well, I think you could do 20 or 30,000 more miles in the Julia for that, but you could

do.

But I understand you want something, want what's next, and it's less about the car itself.

You just want something different and new.

And since you mentioned EV, you think it might be good.

We've established the range that you need.

I instantly started thinking about Model 3s and bolts and news Model 3s, and then I went

to a Lantra hybrids, which is not an EV.

And then I played with the Ionic 6, the Ionic 5.

If you wanted to really spend some money, how about you also get an Aionic 5N?

Those are super cool.

But I threw all that out, Steven.

And I had a hunch, and I went looking, and I am under your budget, it is EV.

It's a new experience to you, and even though it's not on the level of the alpha.

Like you said, it's nowhere close to the driving engagement, but it's something different.

I think you might appreciate it, and because of the price, these are all 20 grand used.

It's the Nissan Aria.

Oh, interesting.

The engage or evolved trim levels, they're all like 20 or 21,000 dollars with 10 to 18,000

miles on it.

He could get a Fisker Ocean cheap.

Don't know who services that, but they're cheap.

I mean, that's a unique driving experience.

It is unique driving experience.

Yes.

Fun finding service for you.

The ownership experience as well, yeah.

It's unique.

Now, again, we've driven the Aria.

It wasn't a standout in the driving category, but that's not the high thing on your list.

True.

And you just want something, you want EV.

I mean, there's really no EVs that are high on our list for driving enjoyment.

Sure, that's not what they need.

It's not where they lead though, yeah.

So any EV that would recommend is not going to be like, hey, this is a handling standout

until we're fast forward in the future and maybe car companies come out with something.

We hope that's not out of the question, but that's not where the industry is right now.

So Nissan Aria, they're all 20 grand.

Fine one.

The list on Autotabist was like, yeah, surprising.

They were all, didn't matter the mileage, didn't matter the year, they're all 20,000

dollars or 21.

It's like, I love it.

This is right in the sweet spot.

It's an EV.

It does work.

It's interesting because it's a different interior.

And I think you might appreciate just a larger cabin.

951: Jaguar Yogurt, A Lotus Correction, The Luxury Theater

Chrysler Crossfire

Jaguar Etype

Lotus Amira

Mazda MX-5 / Miata

Toyota Supra

Porsche Boxster

Porsche Cayman

Ford Expedition

Chevrolet C8

Honda Passport

Jeep Wrangler

Polestar 2

Kia Soul

Morgan 3

Porsche 911

BMW M235I

3 Three Wheeler

Lucid Air

Cadillac Ct5V Blackwing

Cadillac Ct5V

Acura Integra

Land Rover Range Rover

BMW E39

BMW M5

Porsche Panamera

E-Class Amg E63

BMW E63

Hyundai Ioniq 5

Hyundai Ioniq 6

Audi Q5

Mini Countryman

Hyundai Kona

Volkswagen Id4

BMW i3

Nissan Aria

Genesis G90

About this episode

Original notes