954: Genesis Vs. Jaguar, Two Wagons Aren’t Enough, Viper-Colored Glasses

This is a car show, but it's also more, because cars connect us to every part of our lives. Families, careers, hobbies, and adventures we never expected, so you should have a car you love, and we're here to help. I'm Paul, I'm Todd, and this is the everyday driver, Cartabay. Happy Friday everybody, welcome back to the podcast, glad to have you with us. We are, I know this is crazy, but we were just talking about this, we are an audio podcast. Did you notice that

podcasts are going all video? We were talking about this, we are, I'm just going to let you know, here is my spoiler alert, we are looking at ways that the podcast can be different, and we are aware of the fact that the entire industry is going to video podcasts, which I will admit makes my brain hurt, because podcasting is an audio medium, but anyway, we are, we are entertaining things, and I just wanted you to know that. I kind of find it funny that I don't think many people can identify the device upon which podcasts were created, the basis for why they are

called podcasts. The term is ubiquitous, and yet we don't even use it anymore. I think it's kind of entertaining, but yes, we'll entertain some more, and we're still thinking. Well, to your point, the podcast is a device that no longer exists, the iPod. It was just a hard drive. And the iPod was an audio device, and now the podcast is becoming a video medium for storing all your MP3s. I'm so confused. That's it. We have great couple of debates for today, guys, welcome back to the podcast, starting off with some news from Genesis,

you've noticed the magma brand, and they have introduced their new racing team, Genesis magma racing, and debuted the GMR-001 hypercar race car, which competes in the Lamada tone of hybrid class, meaning it's eligible for respective GTP and hypercar classes, in IMSIS sports car championship racing, and FIA World Endurance Championship racing. And in the backbone of the car, the LMD and LMDH chassis, the recipe for these cars,

the whole car, minus the internal combustion engine, the body and the hybrid system, need to be supplied by one of four chassis builders, Delara, Multimatic, Legier, and Orica. So Orica Motorsport is the chassis builder for this one, and the recipe includes a minimum weight and a balance of performance and a maximum output of 670 horsepower, but this is one of the prettier LMDH cars I have seen. Genesis is in Le Mans racing.

Isn't that interesting? Holy cow. Yeah, what does that mean for the brand and what does that mean for perception? I'm just fascinated Jaguar kind of left. So Genesis is stepping up. The Jaguar went off to bake fashion.

So could Genesis decided to bake race cars? Could Genesis step into the void to compete against the Aston Martin's of the world? Mercedes Aston Martin is now Genesis elevated to that brand status in racing and in products they build that are luxury, high performance, beautiful sports cars.

Genesis cars, I think they are, and it's great news. It's very cool. Some more news. We just came across is the new Dodge marketing campaign. Yeah, this new Dodge charger. I mean, they got lucky in the fact that the name Charger suggests an EV, but you know they're making an EV and we've talked about this for a while. Yeah, they're making, they've leaned in, you called this years ago Paul, they leaned into, we are the high horsepower brand.

So they're leaning into the charger shape that looks a lot like that old beloved 69 dukes of hazard era charger looks a lot like that. They've leaned into that. We've seen it. It's seen in the in the metal. It is huge, but because of internal combustion interest. I'm going to call it that. Okay. Dodge is now fast tracking the engine versions of these versus the EV versions of these, but they've just dropped a commercial today. They just dropped a commercial about the EV version. Keep going.

To satisfy both markets, I suppose. Yes, but to satisfy where they have proclaimed that they're taking the Dodge brand, but I am going to ruin the commercial for you all because it is pretty dang funny. Go watch it. It'll be ruined, but it'll be worth the watch because with the new Charger Daytona EV, they are saving the planet from all those lame solace week looking self driving sleep pods. Everyone keeps polluting our streets with.

What's interesting is the commercial starts about as climate concerned as it could possibly be any buzzword sentence you've heard or imagery to go with it. And I'm not coming down in a stance here. I'm just saying we all know the buzz word sentences that relate to climate change. Okay. For the kids for the future, they hit them all. They hit every single one. And I feel like a lot of the stuff in this commercial is probably stock footage. I mean, it's it's so many.

I mean, fingers to the wheat normal in fingers gladiator. The first gladiator moving, you know, and he's the fingers to the wheat and low angles of children with backlit and a parental hand with a little tiny baby. I mean, they hit all of the cliches. And in the middle of the commercial, they turn it and have some attitude. But the point I made to Paul is they covered both camps because they covered all of the cars are terrible. Let's worry about the environment stuff at the beginning.

Mm hmm. All of that's there. And then the car should be fun. They cover that at the end. So whichever side you come down on, they kind of hit it. It's true while giving you their EV. This is it's a fascinating piece of marketing. You know, here's the thing. They did both correctly in both ways. Yes. Pro and con of both camps in both ways. You can be equally encouraged or offended by this commercial.

Exactly. Wherever you drop. And I have to say, when you put that in comparison to Jaguar, what an interesting thing. I'm very fascinated by this commercial. And I'm also really curious to drive both the EV and the internal combustion engine version of this car. Absolutely.

I'm very fascinated about it. It's kind of the top of our list for 2025. And how is this going to sell? Who's going to buy it? All of that, to be honest with you, I don't think Dodge knows how it's going to do and who's really going to buy it?

You know that there's enough interest in the gas version, which is still going to be hybridized, that they want to make the gas engine as fast as they can. They know that, but how many people who are the buyers?

What is the take rate on the EV versus gas engine? It's all an unknown. I really do think that Dodge is scratching their head right now. And this commercial is kind of evidence.

So cover everything and do it well. Yes. Just in case anything goes in any direction in the future, we're fully covered for any direction.

It feels right that this commercial. It made me laugh, but it totally feels like, you know what? We covered it. We're good.

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Our first car debate for this episode comes from Chris H in the San Francisco Bay area who proclaims two wagons are not enough.

Okay, great. Let's dive into that. Let's unpack wagons.

Chris's watcher of investments, finances and expenses lily is which which works out to wife by the way exactly. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, yeah.

They're longtime listeners. Chris and lily really appreciate it. Thank you so much. He says the preferred podcast for the long drives.

It's our preferred podcast for long drives. We usually recording it during the long drive. That happens as well to be more of that.

Appreciate it. They're in need of a two car solution for their growing family. They're both in their early 40s and have a full household a 14 year old son. Another son do in a few months. Wow.

Congratulations. And three dogs weighing between 27 and 45 pounds. So in other words, you kind of have your about to have five kids. Wow.

Between the 14 year old who's going to have to help with the newborn and the three dogs. You kind of have five kids. Yeah. Okay. Moving on.

They've got a house with a garage. Their commutes are very short. Either a quick drive to transit or an under 10 mile drive to the office if necessary. That's great.

But they also drive a fair bit about 20 to 25,000 combined miles a year between Chris and lily with weekend drives and climbing trips.

I love that. They need space for climbing gear and camping gear plus the family for weekend excursions.

You take all three dogs in your 14 year old son and I'm expecting your newborn are all going camping and climbing and I simultaneously feel bad for you and excited for you.

That's going to be that's both of the above is equal measure. It's kind of like the Dodge commercial. Anyway, moving on. Yeah.

Cover everything. Chris currently drives a 2017 Volvo V60 with the pole star tune. He says it's not a real pole star. Upgraded brakes, tires, sway bars with 122,000 miles that he custom ordered.

He's had it since brand new. He says it's been incredibly reliable. It looks brand new. He still loves it. But he is aware that it's got 122,000 miles. So he kind of thinks it may be time to move on plus it's a V60.

So it doesn't have really the room they think they're going to need for the next chapter. But his 14 year old son wants that car as the car he can drive.

I like to like that a lot. That's very cool choice. Very, very unique. That is really cool. In his past, he said it's 1974 Galaxy 500 two door hard top is grandma's car that he left with the Windsor engine built in Windsor. So the 351 Windsor 1974 Alpha Romeo spider Vellace 1987 Nissan Pathfinder two door four cylinder manual.

That's a that's a kind of truck that's just not made anymore. No kidding. The two door SUV in manual just does not exist anymore. They were very cool. Yeah.

Oh, he had a 91 Pathfinder four door V6 manual 2015 Volvo S60 and now the 2017 V60. Chris loves to work on his own cars. Do the basic maintenance and upgrades where possible because he's a Volvo fish and auto used to work for Volvo and Mercedes as a sales manager in another life.

Okay. Chris's wife Lily currently drives an 08 Toyota Matrix with 176,000 miles. She loves asparagus hates the color blue and going in for the dark. Stop far. It's like the color person announcing the game.

That's what you're right. But in 2000 behind three point drains it from half court. This is a sporties we've ever got with this podcast.

Again, this is a 2008 Toyota Matrix. This is not a new car. 176,000 miles. She's owned it since new. It's been reliable, but it is too small for the growing family and it is showing its age. You think a 2008 with nearly 200,000 miles. I don't care what car it is. It will be showing its age.

He said he also feels like his wife deserves something more luxurious and comfortable. And she refuses to treat herself. What's interesting is she's had two Ford Rangers and older Solaro and now the Matrix.

But until driving the Volvo, she didn't realize and neither did he. How much she likes the European feel of handling and the Volvo seats have coddled her kind of problematic back. And she's like, well, I like this handling. And I like these seats. So he's going, let's do that.

She dribbles around the pick steps behind the three point line and drains it from downtown. Please watch the Pepsi after show anyway.

Chris says that they drive this car 100% of the trips they take together because of the seats make sense. I totally see that. So the Volvo gets driven. That's why it's got 122,000 miles. So lily likes it. Chris likes it. It seems like the Volvo is not going anywhere though.

Right? Well, no, but see he's up for it to go. That's the thing. They're saying they kind of need to.

But your 14 year old wants to drive it. Well, I guess I have a soul for that though. No, I think you're right. It doesn't go anywhere because it goes to their son.

But they need two new cars. They need the mom and dad need two new cars. Even if a Volvo stays for your son, we are shopping for both mom and dad here.

Chris and lily both new cars for them. And the key thing is one of them, think about their family real quick.

14 year old about to have a newborn three dogs of varying sizes. Camping trips, climbing trips. They need a seven cedar with room for their teen and a backwards baby seat.

Because again, we're talking newborn. Also, they like to buckle in their dogs and harnesses. I think that's superb if you can do it. They still need room to pack stuff for climbing and camping trips.

And if you haven't ever been on a climbing trip, there's a lot of gear. I'm saying that as a person that still has gear. Yes. So anyway said like that. They both love wagons and the practicality.

But any individual wagon isn't really big enough for the full family hauler that they want. And then they realize they don't need another one that does all of it.

So we can split this money. I love it. It's exciting. For $55 million lily lines up her 21 foot. You are really grinding that down.

It thanks to the left, Bob. But you know, I think lily can do it. Look at that backswing. She's determined she just signed on with Nike moving on.

Okay. Yes. Good seats are a must. They like to save cash by going maybe EV on one and pH EV on the other not required. They can charge it home with level two charger.

And the total budget is 150 to 180,000 for two cars. That's excellent. I like it. A poll hard ceiling at $200,000 combined for a perfect solution. I think I have your perfect solution. I'm looking at you. All right.

I've gone over just to touch, but then Chris takes a turn. I love this because we've been we've been thinking very practically Chris lilies, but I've been thinking very, very practically. And he says, you know, he'd love it if one of them was fun enough to take on a fun drive.

Maybe wind up at a hooked on driving track day. His words not mine and able to hang on the back roads if they come join an everyday driver adventure. Yes.

I like this because you left sheer practicality when you realize you're going to have the seven cedar you hope.

The other thing might be able to have a little bit of fun. What if the seven cedar also could do like a fire road? That'd be cool.

They'd be nice to have a little bit of off road capability so they could get closer to climbing access. The smaller of the two, remember the car for the fun drives.

They'd still like it to have essentially five seats and hopefully four doors has to fit him the wife, the two kids or him and the wife and the three dogs.

So we're talking about filling the seats either way. So that's what they've been talking about. And that's a factor as well, which is very interesting.

Chris has been drooling over the new pole star engineered Volvo V60. Yes, it's awesome. Chris, did you see our recent review of that? It's superb. It's very good drive.

Despite the lack of colors, he would have to wrap it. He says rebel blue would it be his choice? That's good. He's also been looking at the Porsche Panamera sport to resmo, the Audi S6 or seven, maybe a used RS6 or E63.

Oh, lovely choices. Fantastic. He tends towards sporty wagons, but he likes to dance and fast backs to to her credit lily encourages Chris to get something fun for himself.

But he says for her, they've been considering the Rivian R1S trimax, the little XC60 T8 and lily also wants to look at the Toyota Grand Highlander hybrid Lexus GX or maybe the Sequoia all good choices.

Interesting. And they say they won't consider a Tesla. So what else should they drive and consider Chris and lily, I think I've got the perfect recipe for you.

Really? Okay, good. Lily, I love all those choices for you. Create some drive homework for yourselves and go drive that Grand Highlander hybrid drive the Lexus GX 550. I think the overtrail version is the one you want.

It seems like it. Yeah, I agree with you. You want the smaller wheels with the better tires and you know, the the 21s just aren't cutting it on that for me. But we do have videos coming out on that. We did take it to Moab and we did drive it against the Land Cruiser. So a couple of different options with that.

And the Sequoia, that's it's big. It's it could do it. I just don't love the Sequoia for you. The problem that I have with both the Sequoia and the GX, both of which are good on their own right. I don't think they're big enough for this usage.

I don't think either one of them interior wise are big enough.

Okay. I don't like the Sequoia's use of space and the GX is the size of the new Land Cruiser, which is not as big as you think.

It's a super, but you're right. It's a superb five-seater. It's not a really a seven-seater. It's not seven.

I think Lily, you need to add one particular vehicle to your list. It actually is a well-priced vehicle. There's turbo, turbo S versions and also PHEV versions of this.

I know we're going good. It is the Mazda CX 90. I really like it. Yes.

We've driven now both the turbo and PHEV versions of that, and it's so impressive. That is now the largest vehicle Mazda has ever built.

What they're new straight six, which is such a nice entry. Straight six is great. The PHEV, I believe, has an inline four. It does. It's a different look at that.

It works as a PHEV. I think the straight six is worth it. But the luxury, the amenities, all combined with the price we're talking.

I think still under 70 grand for any of the flavors that you get, they're really great. Look at the Mazda CX 90. It is in the sweet spot.

It's almost like it's aimed at you, Lily. I encourage you to go drive that. Put that on your list along with these others. Great choices on the others. But yes, you've got to look at that one.

Chris, turning to you, I am looking at the Hyundai Ionic 5N to start.

Just a moose boozion. Good five-seater. Definitely performance wise. I see it. You could bring it to Laguna Seca for an HOD track day.

You could charge right there. Laguna has 12 chargers. All lined up right there. You could bring that and it's a superb commuter. It's fun to drive. Interesting. I think it looks good. It's really grown on me.

I also looked since you mentioned the Panamera. I was wondering about the Porsche Taycan GTS Sport Turismo. Found one with 9,266 miles for $118,000. They're dropping like stones.

It's in Florida. Problem is, Florida. So, your Porsche dealer might be able to help guide you for the California market to find one. There are a few and far between the Panamera's are more readily available. But I do like the Taycan. It's just sweet looking, especially the Sport Turismo.

But throw all that out because the one that I think you need to get hands down and we're done is the 2025 BMW M5 Touring. It is a PHEV Chris.

The M hybrid powertrain is related to the system and the M hybrid V8 race car 4.4 liter V8 making 717 horsepower with 738 pound feet of torque. I'm just so glad I get this opportunity to sell you a car.

It also has a preliminary estimated range of 25 miles on a full charge. They're $122,000. Probably to start. But this is the sweet spot for superb long distance comfort. You know you want it. Get one in that sweet green. Bring it on the Colorado adventure. Bring it on the bear tooth adventure. Everybody will swarm you because, oh my gosh, M5 Touring.

And get a cheap Miata to teach your son to drive manual transmission. You guys can bring that to a hooked on driving track day in NorCal and maybe like an NC generation hardtop convertible.

So I added it all up. About 70 grand for the Mazda CX 90, 122 for the M5 Touring plus 15 grand can get you a good NC where it's $207,000. It's a little over but you get three cars for the price of three.

That's excellent. I'm very impressed with that. Well done, my friend. Chris, I don't know that I'm going to beat that but I'm going to unpack a few things. Yeah, that's really good. Paul, well done three cars. We spent some money. I realized, yeah, you did, but you did really, really well. Maybe the Volvo sticks around, but maybe you think you know what? I've got an M5 Touring somewhere. Chris and Lily are having a conversation with their son right now who suddenly wants a Miata. That's how that's gone. Exactly.

I don't worry about ruining that trip for all three of you moving on. Okay, I like the Lexus GX endless square. I mentioned those before. I don't think they're big enough. I don't think that the grand Highlander hybrid, you're going to like the seats enough. It's fine. It's fine.

It's fine, but I don't think I like the seats enough. I actually think and I'm going to go somewhere else, give you some options. But I think the best choice for you guys and especially for Lily is the Volvo XC 90 T8 that you brought up. And I bring that up because it's a known brand for you that you already like. It seats you already love.

So it's a bigger newer version of what's already working for you. I like Paul's CX 90 a lot. That's an excellent choice. But I think the XC 90, that's funny. CX 90 from Mazda XC 90 over here in Volvo.

Moving on, that is interesting. The XC 90 from Volvo really does do everything you need it to do and you would love it. So I think that's a real front runner.

I want to give you some options. I like the Rivian a lot for you. The R1S is really cool. You'd love the space. They're very cool.

It's an unknown brand for you, which makes me wonder about it and I also think you're going to have to test drive the seats.

Seats is a personal thing and we know the Volvo's are working for you. Do you like the Rivian seats?

While you're driving stuff like that, I have a wild card for you that's along these lines and that is the Kia EV9.

Oh, surprising amounts of space. That is space. Yes. It doesn't have a huge exterior but a ton of interior.

If you're looking at the Rivian, at least, and they're not the same, I realize, but at least cross shop the EV9 from Kia.

At least go drive that. I think you really should look at it. And then I have my serious wild card for you guys.

And then I want to get into stuff for you, Chris. But here's my wild card for you. And here's why I go here.

You're wanting to do it all with a ton of space that you can throw the entire family in and not worry about.

That you can take on climbing trips, fire roads. Any time you go, let's pack up dogs, kids, family stuff, gear.

Let's go on an adventure. You need that vehicle. Yeah.

You don't have to daily commute miles per gallon on the daily commute is actually irrelevant to you guys.

The real answer here, you're not going to like it, but the actual answer for you is a suburban.

That's the answer. That's true. That's just nothing really beats suburban.

Big huge monster seats, tons of space, do everything you want. You get it off road. You don't care. You get it dented.

You don't care the kid throw up. You don't. It's a suburban. It's true.

Whatever you need to do suburban. And then last one we had that was loaded out the high country was more car than any family ever needs.

Go watch our test drive review on that. It was $90,000 loaded. It had that electric fast food truck.

It did. It had a whole fast food truck. It was like this enormous like cooler-sized thing between the seats.

Yeah. This is the family road trip vehicle. I know it's bigger than you're talking about, but if that's its purpose, long distance usage as the fam, it's just the suburban.

So there's my wild card for you. Chris, I'm going to head into areas for you here. It's hard for me to not just say go get the Panamera Sport Tourismo.

That's just a fantastic wagon. Great dynamically. The best looking version of the Panamera that is superb. I can't argue that here, but I'm going to walk you away from wagons to other things that are four or five seats.

There's other things besides wagons. There are.

Alpha Julia Quadrifolio. Go drive that. The nicest one out there right now is 60 grand. Also get that in green.

Go get the Alpha Julia Quadrifolio. You would love that. Plenty of space for what you're talking about. You want actually four doors and potentially five seats.

But as far as a track car, yes. A back road car, yes. Adventure car, yes. It's all of those things. It's a date night car. It's a great car with presence.

The Alpha Julia Quadrifolio, you have to drive and then you need to also drive. Take your pick at which one speaks to you more and how much you want to spend.

The Cadillac CT4 CT5 Blackway. You get that with a manual. You can get one of those with a manual. This is what we're talking about. This is the car that no longer exists. Four doors, five seats.

I can't say no. Rear wheel drive manual. Nobody else makes that. Cadillac makes two. Yeah, in the 2025 CT5 has been improved.

They've done revisions to the interior and the UI and all that kind of stuff. So you need to at least go seriously by and consider,

seriously driving, consider, sorry, and maybe by the CT4 CT5 Blackwing obviously the Blackwing is bigger and more in law. We see which one works for you, but drive those.

And then I have real wild cards for your Chris because this isn't a car that has to do everything. You're talking about you and your wife, maybe dogs, you and your wife, maybe kids.

Let's go down to two doors. Four seats. I have three for you. Maybe the new BMW M2. The seats are a little tight, but that is a fantastic car to drive. You can put three dogs in the back of that.

You could put your son in the back of that. The rear-facing child seat is going to be a battle. I'll admit, but BMW M2. Delightful and fun.

Want to go bigger than that? Okay. The M440i from BMW. Yeah, good. That has a ton of power. It's got to be a routine, but it's got a ton of power. And the back seats are as big as their four doors.

Tons of back seat space, genuinely good dynamically. And then the real wild card here that really pushes it, but Chris, I want you to consider your usage.

The current generation 9.11 or even a 991 because starting the 991 from my taste, the 9.11 got too big, but if you want usable back seats, it's 991 or 992. They've got usable back seats now.

So while the car's gotten bigger, it's gotten more usable. Yes. So I really think depending upon how you're actually going to use that car, you could have a 9.11 in the garage.

I know I'm pushing the edges here, but that's my wild card area. And I know your son is currently jumping up and down 9.11.11. So you could have the XC90 and a used 991.

That's a pretty great family garage. Or, you know what, suburban and 9.11, then you really have the family car. And I'm stopping there.

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For our second debate, Nate M. Wants Manual Insanity.

Okay.

Manual Insanity. That means...

That needs to be a shirt. That's a hashtag on a shirt. Just says Manual Insanity. No explanation. Just hashtag Manual Insanity.

That's true because then you'll have to explain yourself.

Of course you will. Yeah.

Nate has recently decided he wants to buy a Viper.

Okay. Here we go. He is.

He is shopping at the $80,000 mark. All right. Options.

Before he pulls the trigger on one, he recently found that gets him very excited. What else is out there that he might be overlooking?

I mean, if you're shopping Viper's, you're shopping Viper's.

Well, he says he understands he's doing the thing where people write in and essentially just looking for us to justify their purchase.

But he is open to suggestions.

He says he knows he has Viper colored glasses on and might miss something.

But here's why Viper wins right now. I don't know. I think it's like a yellowy green.

What is? Okay. Yeah. Anyway, moving on. He says it has to be unusual, uncommon or rare.

He says, sorry, Corvette. You don't qualify.

Two-seater, V8 or greater cylinder count, good handling, manual with insanity.

He says he feels like very few cars bring thrills like the Viper and that's what he want.

A car that is positively bonkers.

You want a car that just might be trying to hurt you.

Because that's actually the vibe of the Viper.

It is.

And you've already said it, Paul, and I have to echo it.

The reason the Viper doesn't come up a lot on this show is because you're either buying a Viper or you're not.

There's no like, here's a list of six cars.

And you know what's it? That same category. It's just the Viper.

The Viper is over here. The Viper is like the Elise.

And I will admit right now that I have a guilty pleasure soft spot for the Viper.

And I think it's because it's like the Elise.

The Elise is like sports car, but it's off on an island by itself.

It doesn't really want to play that. So there's this is the Viper.

The Viper is kind of like other things that are sold and it's also not like them at all.

It's really not.

If you're shopping for the Aston Martin Vantage, not going to buy a Viper.

You're shopping for the Corvette. Probably still not going to buy a Viper.

And that's the closest car to it.

So I will acknowledge here right away, Nate, that you're shopping Viper's

and it's probably Viper, but I did come up with a couple other options.

Viper or nothing. No, I've got a couple options.

That V10 engine wears the bodywork like a sarong.

It flaps in the breeze. It barely hangs on to the V10.

All the panels, the seats, everything's hanging on to the V10.

Please don't leave me behind.

You're right.

All I know, I'll behave.

And the V10, it's all about the V10.

So he says that's what he wants.

Something where he's laughing like a madman, the majority of the time.

I love it. That's good.

Other considerations such as fuel economy and amenities, prices and comfort,

they are not under consideration.

That would be his fourth car that's fully assembled.

I love it.

I did read about the Viper production.

I would believe it was the first gen at the Mac Avenue plant where

because the frame was hand-welded together, they had to use chains.

They hooked up chains to it and yanked it back into true.

Well, that's been an old trick for guys.

I need shops forever.

That's like the Carroll Shelby School of Building Cars.

There you go.

Nate also writes to us as a post-script here.

He cured his grand Cherokee Crush by picking up an Ionic 6

Limited rear-wheel drive long range in the dark green over black.

Okay.

He says it's a fantastic daily, but he had the misfortune of his old grand Cherokee,

which he loves like an old cozy pair of PJs.

It had a piece of metal kick up and got caught between the radiator and the fan

on the interstate that turned it into a piece of modern art

and less of a cooling device.

Yeah, that was probably, it probably failed right away.

Between Hyundai incentives and the dealership, he got $11,650 off MSRP.

The radiator problem was solved.

The drive down his bike and left with the six with the bike in the back.

Okay.

He leased it because he knew battery-type wood van significantly over the next three years

and he plans on another EV once it leases up.

And he's highly enjoyed the experience.

I like that you're balancing the world.

This is the counterpoint.

I like six.

Yeah.

And viper.

Something that is not an EV.

Yeah.

The only two that I could think of that were remotely close, Nate.

We're a Shelby GT500.

Okay.

And a C7 Corvette ZR1.

The ZR1 is also trying to kill its driver.

Yes.

It's interesting.

I actually have four and you've already mentioned one of them.

Okay.

But in spite of the fact, Nate, that you said no Corvettes, I'm going to give you two Corvettes.

One is the C6-Z06.

Now it doesn't look all that grand.

That's a hot car.

Yeah.

But the C6-Z06, that engine, that engine is a bomb.

Okay.

Watch our American original piece where we drive all of them.

Or watch just our Z06-

That means it's a five-ringer and two.

It's a five-ringer and two.

More bomb-wise.

For sure.

But the C6-Z06 is angry.

That's kind of what you're going for.

We're going for angry, maybe a little more engine than you need.

And then you're right.

The C7-ZR1, I do think, is plotting to kill you when it's sleep.

While it's off, it's plotting to kill you for the next time you turn it on.

So the C7-ZR1 is definitely in that category.

Every time we drove it, when we drove it, we were just like,

they're going to sell this to people that have no idea how much this car wants to kill them.

This is on sale to humans.

No humans with no experience.

This is the problem.

You humans that just went, I've always wanted a Corvette and that's the biggest Corvette.

I should buy that one.

And then die.

Okay?

Yes.

So yeah, C7-ZR1 is up there.

I've got three others for you that are approaching the madness of the Viper,

but they're not quite there.

Okay.

But they do the uniqueness thing.

One is the Audi R8.

Audi R8 in manual V10 is unique and interesting.

That's also a V10.

Yeah, yeah, true.

You can get it in V8 or V10.

I don't know what your budget's going to do because you're talking about $80,000.

I know you could do a V8 for that.

A manual V10 probably not for 80 grand.

Those are up there.

They'd be hard to find, but the R8 manual is a possibility.

Oh, that's good.

One that I know is out of your budget and they're really hard to find is the Lamborghini Gallardo V10 manual.

That's in the category what we're talking about.

Oh, that's a problem.

The problem is that's in the low six figure range.

And I've also noticed because I looked at a lot of tempest,

there might not be a category of used car being sold that is a bigger offender of you put in manual and it isn't.

It's paddles.

It has manual option.

I'm scrolling through pages on auto tempest, not a manual, not a manual.

And I filtered for manual.

Not a manual, not a manual, not a manual.

Yeah, I hate it when they do that.

Because for whatever reason, everybody selling a used Gallardo thinks it's a manual.

It's not.

It's got the three buttons on the console.

Yeah, no.

And it's got the paddles behind the wheel.

Not a manual.

So good luck trying to find one.

Our friend, Stradman here locally, that was the thing that he bought that made his channel blow up was a V10 manual transmission Gallardo.

That he said he's going to keep forever.

Now it's got like, you know, 4,000 horsepower and three.

I just like to know how much maintenance money has been poured in this thing.

It'll make me feel better about my 928.

Well, enough to keep our channel floated for years,

but that's a separate thing anyway.

So that's another one.

And then I think I may have found the equivalent to the Viper.

Ooh.

I have one last one for you.

Okay.

Buy someone's already built version of this car.

The factory five day Tonicoupe.

Holy cow.

I think I've done it.

Now it's a V8.

Yeah.

But that has the kind of Viper vibes you just don't see them.

They're fantastic looking.

Yes.

Find one of those that somebody already built and just buy it and drive it, drive the wheels off of it.

But that has the anger.

That has the more engine than it needs.

It has the aggression of a Viper.

The noise.

Yes.

The look.

All of the above.

The rattly building.

It does.

You're not going to see another one anywhere.

And you don't accidentally buy a Daytona coupe.

It's like the Viper shopping area looking for one.

So I think that's the only other one that gets really close.

Wow.

That's what Todd did it.

I think.

Yeah.

That's got the attitude, doesn't it?

Yes, it does.

Absolutely.

I think you did it.

That's huge.

Because see here, I am trying to think of other V10s.

And I came up with Carrera GT manuals.

And those are one and a half million dollars.

And then I thought, what else is V10?

Oh, yeah.

Lexus LFA.

Those are like 800,000 dollars.

Yeah.

But then you can get into V10 sedans.

And that's the wrong direction.

Well, that's true.

Yeah.

They're a guy out of V8s or V10s in the outies.

Yeah.

Exactly.

That's a V10 S17, Aston Martin V12, Vantage S manual for $224,900.

Ouch.

Cool.

But that makes all those cars make a Ferrari 550 Marinello manual

at $150,000 to $195,000.

Look pretty darn good.

It does look good.

Which is way out of budget, but it does look good.

Yeah.

Do you want to triple your budget?

You can.

Double your budget.

You could have a 1999 Ferrari 550 Marinello with the gated six speed manual

currently on sale at Dallas Auto Exchange for $145,000 with only 35,000 miles.

And you're rocking a V12 better than a V10 because it's gotten more.

Because it's gotten more so.

A V12 on song at close to redline is makes your heart ache.

I mean, the Viper cool.

Yeah.

But the V12 with the six speed gated and just putting that out there food for thought.

Very nice.

Yeah.

I did it.

I still think the Shelby Daytona coupe factory five build those are what 60 65.

Well, here's the thing.

You buy somebody's project that they finished.

So you don't have to build on it.

Yeah.

And it's going to be underneath that 80k.

That's the thing.

That's crazy.

And that's a nice counterpoint to that.

Yeah.

That makes six in.

Big time.

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You guys are awesome with questions.

Thank you for responding with questions.

Also, we always read our discord because all of our patrons.

Thank you to our patrons supporters.

It's really cool.

They always put questions on our discord.

So we check there as well.

And we appreciate those.

So those have happened as well.

But many of you have responded on me to Instagram or Facebook.

And we are thankful.

We posted our family photo that took.

It took it inordinate amount of time to get all of those cars.

There was lots of back and forth to get two cars at a time.

We finally put them all together.

We're going to start pushing that picture out more places coming soon.

We wanted to show it to you guys.

There's been a few questions about that picture.

And I have to bring up two that made me laugh.

First is Leon says we missed the opportunity to have the red porches next to the red lotus.

The two blues together, the two blacks together.

Leon, we purposely didn't put colors together.

You said you've got slight OCD and it's just driving you crazy.

On purpose, we didn't want colors of the same together.

We absolutely didn't want that, which is why the Elise.

This was part of the question.

Why is the Elise in the middle?

The Elise didn't look right as a counterpoint to any car

because it's so much smaller and it was the only one yellow.

It was the dead center with the largest car of the group, the expedition behind it.

That was the baseline of the build.

We had to keep the cayons apart because side by side doesn't work.

I didn't want colors together.

It needs to look like Skittles.

We spread them out from there.

That's why we did it that way.

The Elise just had to go in the middle because it was the complete oddball in size and color.

The only place to put it was straight in the center.

A Facebook question from Jeff right out asking about

directionally asymmetrical wheels on one side of the car.

The top spokes look like claws trying to dig through a wall.

On the other side, the bottom spokes look like running feet.

Does this ERC designers?

Yes, ERC Vax, they hate it.

If they do it right, you have staggered wheels and side directional wheels.

That's the 300ZX.

The Nissan 300ZX that I had, the Z32.

It's subtle on that car.

The reality is you have a wheel for a corner on the car.

Yes.

Because the fronts are staggered to the backs on the turbos and they're directional.

Talk about that wheel goes difficult.

No, where else?

If you want to order a different wheel, you have to specify which corner it goes on.

Unbelievable.

The hunt gets harder because you're trying to find just that wheel.

So yes, designers hate what you've described and they would much rather do what Todd described on that 300Z

because that seems correct.

When they're all traveling the same direction, doesn't matter which side of the car you're on.

Yes.

But of course, good luck trying to convince management to do that, right?

Great question from Aaron on Facebook.

He says, what is the question list on drive homework look like?

What are the key things a person should be paying attention to or doing when they are doing their drive homework?

Stereo color.

Yes.

No, it's really just stereo and cup holders.

Real cup holders.

It's just stereo and cup holders.

That's really all you need to worry about.

How many cup holders does it have?

Does it have car play?

Where do I charge my phone?

Yeah.

The stereo is loud.

Does it have air vents for the back seat passengers?

But only if you're carrying back seat passengers.

Sure.

You might not have to carry.

No, you're carrying out.

Seriously, Aaron.

The big thing about drive homework that I think is important is the proximity or the timing of your drive homework.

The best way to do it is back to back to back to back to back.

I don't care if you have, if you're taking somebody who has very little experience in cars,

but you'd get them in three of the cars they're considering on the same car dealer row,

you go back to back to back.

Somebody that doesn't even really know what they're looking for in a car,

they will have a favorite instantly of those three.

And obviously cars are subjective.

We know this.

I mean, there's cars that are objectively better than others,

but we also know there's so many subtleties going on in car buying.

I mean, this is why the Prius works and the Bronco works and the Elise works.

They're not similar.

They don't have similar buyers.

It's not pretend that they do.

But seating position and comfort in the seat.

That is personal, but it is paramount.

How does the steering feel to you as a driver?

And in some driver's cases, don't care.

Don't care.

Do you need the transmission to act a certain way?

Some people won't care.

Some people, the CVT is fine.

Other people, why isn't this available in a manual?

But when you are accelerating from the light,

I'm not actually going to come out on, does is it powerful enough?

Because that is not only super subjective, but really doesn't matter.

Every modern car is fast enough.

But the way that it carries speed, the way that it gathers speed,

are you shifting it yourself?

Is it a really good transmission that's an automatic?

Is it a really good dual clutch?

Is it a CVT?

And do you care?

Some people won't.

Some people, I just hate this automatic transmission.

You don't have to know much about cars,

but if this auto is worse than that auto,

you're going to know when you left the light.

So it's those things you're going to interact with every day.

And I know, couple of others are stereo in there,

but we're talking about what makes a car

drive better than the other.

And I love it when people drive multiple cars back to back

because whatever their perceptions were coming in,

you can instantly ask them, which is your favorite?

And they'll know.

And then you can ask, this is my favorite follow-up question.

Why?

And they're probably going to say it

for a reason you never thought of.

Well, that one has that really cool lock thing?

Really?

Yeah, right.

That happens.

On Instagram, Harvey M says,

what are the most recent BMWs

that had good steering and shifter feel?

Harvey loves BMW dynamics, availability of manuals,

and rear-wheel drive platforms.

But he sold his 2017 M240 after a year

because of the rubbery shifter and lack of steering feel.

You've identified it, Harvey,

and we're going to have to go to the mid-90s

to find something from BMW that really comes to life.

No, I can't.

Let's fast forward just to the early 2000s.

Yeah.

It's the E46 that I think is the standout.

We could go as far as 2011.

That's lovely 1M.

Yeah.

But anything after that,

even the E90 series, BMWs, good,

but the 46 beats it.

So you're going to have to go back almost two decades

to find something that really falls into the category

of something you love,

but that's not why people buy BMWs anymore.

Yeah, true.

And he's gotten away from it.

It is precision,

and they're fast,

and they're so capable.

They're amazing to drive,

but not for the reasons that everybody loved them for,

and knew them to be.

Yeah, early 2010s is about as early as you can go.

You could get a lot of one series out of that.

Good.

You could, but yeah, the 1M is really a masterpiece

at the amazing how that came together.

Jay Torres says,

is he's talking Mustangs?

Is the S550 GT350?

So that generation GT350,

that we love flat plane crank engine,

and all the good noises.

Is it worth the premium over the S550 Mach1?

He's saying same generation Mustang.

The GT350 came out earlier with the flat plane crank,

and then a lot of the revisions of that

from a suspension perspective wound up on the Mach1

with the more normal V8,

but still an excellent maintenance transmission.

He seems like the premium is paying for the engine.

Is it worth it?

Jay Torres, I'm going to be controversial here

because I really, really like the GT350.

I love that engine.

Every time we've driven it,

it's incredible Mustang, one of my favorites ever.

And I think I'd get the Mach1.

I'd get the Mach1 too.

And I think because if you're going to drive it a lot

and drive it hard,

sadly, those GT350 engines

have not known to be that robust.

And I like the personality of it very, very much,

but if this is your special occasion car,

you know, I could drive it occasionally,

and I could drive it that hard,

and I don't want you to do that.

But maybe GT350,

but if this is going to be a thing,

you drive a lot, you drive it hard.

Then Mach1,

plenty of power,

an engine that's less prone for reliability issues,

drive it all day,

all the time.

Come to Hookdown Driving event,

you'll have a great time.

Facebook, Kirk Meier says,

all this car has so far been long-term buys.

How does he change his mind

and his minister of finances mindset

or justification to own a special car

for a short time?

Long-term buys indicate

love for the car,

like I've done with my Cayman,

but also indicate,

you know what,

it's investment

and we're going to

not try to overspend on a monthly payment

or maintenance,

and we buy something we know

is just going to run a long time

and ultimately just save us money.

It's the practicality mindset,

and you're right, Kirk,

you're wanting to get away

from anything practical

to justify special cars

for short time periods,

even if it's just one in your life

and you never get that car

that you always wanted

and you could,

at some point in your life,

no regards, right?

I could have taken the money

that I spent on my first 928

and put it into Apple stock

and I distinctly remember this.

It was,

I know where this is going.

Yeah.

I think I put down 10 grand.

It was $19,000 for a really nice 88 S4.

And I put down 10 grand

and I financed $9,000

and I thought I could have put

10 grand into Apple stock

at that point in time.

And that was 19,

no, that was 01.

You would have done okay.

You'd be all right.

I would have done just fine.

You would have done okay.

Imagine all the cars that I could have bought

with what Apple stock did.

$10,000 worth of Apple stock

and imagine the car collection

I could have right now

after selling that.

But I wouldn't have ever had that 928

and it wouldn't have ever made me buy

a second 928

and therefore,

gather the memories and trips.

Yes.

And the trips that you and I took those cars on

for incredibly special trips

that can't ever really be recreated

for the stuff that we experience

and that time in our lives.

That's really special to me.

And that's worth more than $10,000.

I've been over here pondering

a difficult question

from our friend,

Gosti Miata.

He posted,

not a track daily crush

because there's too many cars

in our family photo

for a track daily crush.

So he gave seven categories.

He gave track,

autocross,

daily road trip,

lawn ornament,

crush, donate,

and EV swap.

Forgot fire pit.

Well,

one of them's got to be turned into a fire pit.

Well, but lawn ornament kind of wasn't it?

I guess lawn ornament.

But anyway,

something on blocks.

Well, that's the lot of it.

I think I've done it.

It's taken me a minute.

I've actually had to

like write them down

out of the family photo

of all of those cars

I have actually figured out

this group.

The track car is your Cayman.

Fantastic track car.

The autocross car

is the Elise.

Yes.

The daily

is my Amira.

That's a fantastic

car to drive.

It is good.

Yeah.

Just whatever you're doing.

The road trip car

is the C8 Corvette.

Good.

You could,

there is so much space

in that car.

And because of the adaptable suspension,

I don't care what the road just did.

The car is ready for it.

You end up on a fire road

in the C8.

You're actually going to be okay.

Obviously,

some of these other cars I prefer to just drive.

But literally,

I would road trip

a C8 Corvette

anywhere in the world.

Happily.

Yes.

That's the road trip car.

The lawn ornament,

I'm sorry,

is the 928.

It looks beautiful.

But it doesn't have to run anymore.

It can just sit there

and be beautiful.

Okay.

The crush is the Cayanny hybrid.

I just don't have a super affinity for it.

What?

The reason is because

the donate is the expedition.

There's a family out there somewhere

that could benefit from the expedition.

True.

And let's EV swap the Rubikayan.

I got to crush something.

Interesting.

The Rubikayan has more personality

and is more unique

than the Cayanny hybrid.

That could be EV swapped.

But it's not...

We like it.

It's been a great family car

for us.

We still got it for a while.

But it's not special in any category.

It's superb,

but it's not special.

So it could be crushed

because I'm going to EV swap the Rubikayan.

That in an electric

would have all the power it doesn't have now.

Interesting.

I'm going to put this out there

and that is EV swap the 928.

Because the car is so dang complex

that EV swapping it would make it run.

It couldn't get worse.

I take it.

It really couldn't.

And it's been known between electric motor

and the batteries could go up front

to balance.

Do the weight balance now.

Yeah.

Keep it at a close.

It's interesting.

Okay.

50 balance.

And it would make these cars survive.

Working on them.

I mean, the 8 powered Porsche GT car.

It's awesome.

That's why I love it.

It sounds cool.

It looks cool.

Drives great.

But yeah.

And EV swap for the 928.

Okay.

Because they make all these moldy 928s

all over the planet that just people walked away

from because of the complexity and maintenance.

Yeah.

We could do that with old Maserati's.

EV swap those.

EV swap the 928 is interesting

because it keeps that thing alive.

I think that could be cool.

I mean, I'm just lobbying to keep it around.

I understand.

I mean, I kept it around.

That's the perfect.

It doesn't have to drive anymore.

Rest, girl.

Rest.

Just sit there.

It is pretty.

There you go.

It is pretty.

Seth Kleinman is asking, but not asking.

For a friend, old 911 or 308 GT4 Ferrari.

This is fascinating.

Now, I have a couple of answers for this.

And it kind of depends on what you're actually looking for for yourself

or your friend that you don't want to acknowledge.

Let's go here.

GT4 Ferrari is so much more interesting.

308 GT4 is so much more interesting than another old Porsche.

Yeah.

However, if it's something you're going to drive a lot,

you're going to want the old 911.

Because parts exist.

Culture exists.

DIY info for how to get it built.

Or some specialty guide that knows how to fix whatever just went wrong.

That exists for any old 911 you'll find.

Unfortunately, you're going to overpay for the old 911 air cooled thing.

Whereas you could probably get a deal on the 308 GT4.

I really like the 308 GT4.

It's the more interesting car here.

But as a driver, you're going to drive in the old 911 more.

Going back to Instagram, just a couple of posts ago.

Patrick B is finishing up Jay Leno's video on the Chrysler Turban car.

What alternative fuel cars have we both driven?

Hydrogen, steam, or turbine?

I don't think that we've driven too many fully-

I don't think any of the above.

Delete different fuels like that.

I don't know that we have.

I mean, the expedition can take-

That's not the same thing.

It's got some flex fuel, but it's not the same thing.

It's a flex fuel.

Yeah.

Expedition for the win, right?

No, I would love to try something different.

Steam cars in Trigmeat Jay's got an incredible steam car collection

and a guy who's fully employed just to take care of his steam cars.

Who knew that that was going to be a skill set that person could make a living out of?

But he did.

Bravo to them.

Speaking of the expedition, Grayson Green says,

would we be open to the idea of doing an off-road-

like road trip expedition with the expedition and the Rubikayan?

Grayson two thoughts here.

The first thought is, yeah, sure.

Be great fun.

However, no one would watch that.

Yeah.

I mean, those of you Grayson, you probably would watch it.

And there'd be some of you that really watch everything we post

and thank you for that.

But as a general, like we put this out on YouTube,

both of them are old.

And both of them are known to be able to off-road at some degree already.

So it's not like we took little old sports cars.

I don't think it would get watched.

So while we'd make the effort,

there probably wouldn't be the views,

which I hate to say, but we have to think about it.

Thank you for all your questions.

Right to us topic Tuesdays.

Car conclusions and those awesome car debates every day.

DriverTV at gmail.com.

And we appreciate the social media questions too.

Yeah.

Always looking forward to next time.

Appreciate it, everyone.

Cheers.

954: Genesis Vs. Jaguar, Two Wagons Aren’t Enough, Viper-Colored Glasses

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