993: Pilgrimage 2025 - The Tenth Anniversary, The Annual Tradition, The ‘Ten-Nine-Eight-Minute’ Lap
Everyday Driver Car Debate
993: Pilgrimage 2025 - The Tenth Anniversary, The Annual Tradition, The ‘Ten-Nine-Eight-Minute’ Lap
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Car
Porsche 718 Cayman GT4
The Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 is a sporty car that many people love to drive because it's fast and handles really well. It's built for both the racetrack and regular roads, which makes it exciting to own.
Term
laps on the ring
When someone talks about laps on the ring, they mean driving around a famous racetrack in Germany called the Nürburgring. It's a place where many people go to see how fast and well their cars can perform.
Term
Nürburgring
The Nürburgring is a well-known race track in Germany where many cars are tested and raced. It's famous for being very difficult and exciting.
Part
roll cage
A roll cage is a strong frame inside a car that helps keep people safe if the car flips over or crashes. It makes the car sturdier.
Part
Recaro seats
Recaro seats are special car seats that are designed to be very comfortable and supportive, especially when driving fast or racing.
Car
Hyundai i30 N
The Hyundai i30 N is a sporty car designed for performance. It's known for being fun to drive and has features that make it great for racing.
Car
BMW M3
The BMW M3 is a fast and sporty version of a regular BMW car called the 3 Series. It's popular among car enthusiasts because it combines the comfort of a regular car with the speed and handling of a race car. People talk about it because it's a well-known car that has changed a lot over the years.
Car
Porsche Cayman GT4
The Cayman GT4 is a sporty car made by Porsche. It's designed for speed and handling, making it a favorite among car enthusiasts.
Car
BMW M240i
The M240i is a sporty coupe made by BMW. It has a strong engine and is designed for a fun driving experience.
Car
Toyota GR Yaris
The GR Yaris is a sporty version of the regular Yaris made by Toyota. It's built for speed and has a powerful engine.
Brand
Lamborghini
Lamborghini is a famous car brand from Italy that makes very fast and stylish sports cars.
Concept
exhaust backfire
Exhaust backfire is when a car makes loud popping noises from the exhaust, often because fuel is burning in the wrong place. Some drivers think it's cool and fun to hear.
Term
Autobahn
The Autobahn is a famous highway in Germany where you can drive really fast because there are no speed limits in some areas. It's a great place to test out fast cars.
Car
Chevrolet C8
The Chevrolet Corvette C8 is a new version of the Corvette sports car that has its engine in the middle, making it faster and better at handling. It's a very popular car among sports car fans.
Concept
Spa
Spa is a famous race track in Belgium that is known for being easier to predict than some other tracks. Many drivers like racing there because of its smooth layout.
Car
Porsche Gt3S
The Porsche 911 GT3 is a special version of the Porsche 911 sports car that is built for high performance and racing. It's known for being very fast and fun to drive, especially on racetracks.
Term
suspension setup
Suspension setup is how a car's suspension system is adjusted to make it handle better. This can help the car feel more stable and comfortable while driving, especially around corners.
Car
Ford Fiesta ST
The Ford Fiesta ST is a sportier version of the regular Fiesta. It has a powerful engine and is designed to be fun to drive, making it popular among car lovers.
Term
HOD trip
An HOD trip is a special event where car lovers get to drive their cars on race tracks. It's organized by a group called Hooked on Driving, and it usually includes several days of fun driving.
Concept
Zandvoort
Zandvoort is a race track in the Netherlands where cars race. It's located near the beach and is known for being a fun and exciting place to drive.
LIVE
Love them or hate them, everyone has an opinion on cars. But we believe we're all one great car away from a car enthusiast. So we're here to help you find a car you love, and let it take us to everything else in life. I'm Todd. I'm Paul, and this is the everyday driver car debate.
We're here to help them either. They're passing out shirts and giving instructions as any good Porsche club would, but you may hear engines in the background. We've done it before here outside one of our hotels at the ring, and we've just done the ring and spawn. We're here with our group this year for 2025. And I just have to say, we've had eight people in this group. It's just felt like the right size and the right focus.
It's been a fantastic, and it's also helped by the fact that somehow we got the best weather ever in the history of these trips.
Well, 2024 was 16 drivers, which was a large trip, and we love having that many people. It was very fun.
About half that size, and it just seemed to be a great size. Everybody really got to know each other really well, which was fun to see, and hopefully friendships continue. But we just got cars on track. We had a great road trip. I'm on a high.
And I'm going to call on Jeff. Tell us why you're on a high, Paul. Well, what happened in your day that put you on a high, my friend, got laps on the ring in a GT4. And I thought to myself, you know, self, I should get one of these.
Everybody's been teasing me. Everybody's been teasing me a lot because they know how much I like it. And then I'm out there driving it with a giant grin on my face.
Every time you came in grinning like a little child, I kept reminding you, this is why you own one. You definitely clarified as to why you own it, and I'm thrilled you're that excited about it.
I got 10 laps in today in various cars, which I think is the most over done in a day. And there was still time on the clock. I felt a little bit bad, like I should go ask for something else.
But it was a spectacular day. So we're just going to sit here like we normally do, and we're going to talk to the folks that are on the trip.
We're going to say you'd like to say something, but the big reason we do this podcast with these folks is so you feel like you missed out and come next time because that's right.
Most of them, they are here that are on this trip. They felt that in the past. We come every year because it's so awesome. Clearly Paul and I aren't bored of it after a decade of coming.
Oh, man, I can't believe it. I can't believe it. Everybody here's old friends. The RSR folks are fantastic. Thanks to John O and all the folks at RSR for killing and all the great coaches, all the great staff there.
Two days ago, we were on spa, fantastic day on spa, even though we were all getting hunted by race prep BMWs.
Then we did a road tour as we always do through the fantastic German wine country. And today was all on the ring. It was a track day with the lowest traffic I have ever seen.
And the best weather. And the best weather ever. So good.
We are completely spoiled. We are passing them on to all of you. I am curious if any of you would like to share a big surprise for you from those last few days.
When you speak, please give the audience your first name, where you're from, and maybe a little bit of background, how you found the show.
We always ask people, where did you come across the show? Where did you come across the trip? And what pushed you over the edge? And then of course, you know, something notable as well.
Something that surprised you that there was really kind of unexpected for you on this trip. Anybody at all?
Everybody, my name is Connor from Charleston, South Carolina. And hands down today, cemented what I think was the most surprising.
It's the amount of progress made on the ring with that I-30NR SR edition. I mean, it's like tires, roll cage, recarrow seats, and a bit intimidating, stepping to the ring first laps forever.
And with a great instructor, I just said, treat it like a mountain road. I got the traffic for you, and all the intimidation went away. And once I got in a groove, I think the final two laps I had, I think they were probably some laps.
I could have done more, and I said, these were so perfect. It's like skiing. Two runs left, let's get the last one.
That's great stuff. Thank you, man. Anybody else?
I'm going to call on Jeff because I think you didn't know what to expect, but you've just had a constant smile on your face the entire trip.
Yes, Jeff from Washington, DC. This is something I've watched four years on everyday driver, the Pilgrimage, started as a curiosity as to what would it be like?
Then last year, it became a, I need to do this. And when I signed up, I was put on the wait list.
Now, understanding much better with 16 attendees last year, why I was on the wait list. And this year when I saw the posting go live, I have no idea if I was or wasn't, but I think I was within the first few days.
I immediately signed up because I did not want to have that remorse or regret that I missed out on an opportunity.
The cool part, or maybe the biggest surprises, I think it was great that I was able to wait that extra year because of the group I've gotten to meet, spend the last few days with.
And really just kind of push myself in ways that I never thought. I think we all, those of us who love cars, love driving, think that we are real capable.
And I think the biggest surprise for me is just how much you can learn in a short time.
You know, getting on spa, doing the kind of track tour, her sighting, and getting a feel for just how massive and just grand that track is.
And then immediately hopping in a car and attacking it, it was a little bit humbling for the first few laps.
But I think the biggest surprise to me is the amount of progress that can be made with all the amazing support that was provided by the RSR team.
And of course the two of you having the opportunity to do a drive along or kind of sit in and you all talking through what to do, literally allowed me to make the most of the experience.
And I'm just so fortunate to have done this and definitely something I'll be considering doing again in the near future.
I appreciate it. The joke that came up I think it was last year is somebody coined the term where they said it's the once in a lifetime trip you should take every year.
And we love that. We love people to come back. We've had a lot of repeat customers over the years.
And Ted, who's come with us every single year, inexplicably couldn't come this year.
Yeah, the schedule didn't allow. That's too bad. But I'm sure he'll be back in years to come.
Anybody else? Anybody else at all? Okay, I'm going to change questions then.
Did you have a favorite car on the road tour? Tell us what the road tour was like.
Yeah, the road tour we got to break up various cars, which was nice.
Everybody had a chance to get in some things.
Hi, everyone. My name is Jonathan. I'm from Long Beach, California.
And I found everyday driver from gosh, 10 years ago when they did the Porsche generations and BMW M3 generations on Nimeo.
So I drove the Chevy C8 Corvette. I drove a Porsche Cayman GT4, the Ionic I-30N.
What else the Toyota GR-Yaris? BMW M240i. For me, a hands-down favorite was the Porsche Cayman GT4.
You can't see. It's good. It's good. We know it's good.
I mean, the sound and the immediate throttle response and awesome.
I'm so glad. I'm so glad. We've got to cover various corners, favorite corners of tracks too. We've got that.
That's good. We talked about this before at dinner and I always enjoyed what?
We'll just wait a second for exhaust. Here we are at the ring. That's an Lamborghini leaving.
Nobody's here. There he goes. Everybody hear him going?
It just seems like you have to ring it out if you have one of those cars like everywhere you go, right?
You got to make it shoot fire right when the engine's cold. That's the key Lamborghini ownership. See if you can blow it up.
We like hearing favorite corners that you worked on, favorite cars on the road trip.
It helps us to understand a little bit more about things to focus on, but also it's fun to pass it on.
And, you know, Todd and I love this trip just because of the revelation.
And sometimes it doesn't come even midway through the day. Sometimes it could come towards the end of the day.
And that happened a lot this trip. I feel like people put the perfect lap together.
Sure. Yeah.
Really, really interesting and cool to see.
Anybody else with a favorite corner, favorite car?
Okay. Hi, everyone. I'm Raul from San Juan Puerto Rico.
I learned about everyday driver a couple of years ago when I caught my cable and started watching a lot of YouTube.
Right.
I learned about these guys and when I saw the road trips and adventures, I'm like, this sounds awesome.
And I've been wanting to do it for a couple of years.
This year I think the starts aligned and I'm like, well, it's a perfect chance.
So I decided to come to Germany and do this fantastic trip.
I've always loved spa and number-green.
So my favorite tracks.
So it's a great opportunity for me to participate.
The road trip, I absolutely loved.
It was great because I wanted to do the GT4 for the track, but price-wise wasn't quite there.
At least, I mean, it was awesome because I got to drive the GT4, got to push it on the Autobahn.
And I drove them to 40, the Yaris, the Yaris in the C8.
I think I was most surprised by the C8. I really liked that car.
It was really nice.
Glad to hear that.
And yeah, just driving some beautiful roads and some back roads and the Autobahn and everything.
So I thought, I loved it.
Excellent.
So I've just met over here and I'm going to call him out with your favorite moment.
But I also want to hear from you, Matt, about your Sim experience because you came into this having a lot of laps on both tracks in Sim.
So first of all, touch on your thought, but I'm also interested in your Sim's or experience.
Yeah, so I'm Matt.
I'm from the greater Seattle area.
On the road trip, I was in the older BMW.
And we were pulling through one of these little towns for a stop.
Windows down, the cars stripped out in the buckets with the belts on and the church bells are going over here.
People walking by and it's like the old and the new and the technology and the stone buildings and all of that stuff combined.
It was like, this is a pretty special moment.
So it was like three seconds going through town.
But it was like, this is very magical three seconds.
So that was really, that will stick with me.
Yeah, but on the Sim stuff.
So I did probably 2,000 kilometers on the Nurburgring in the GT4.
Which is a lot of fun.
But never having actually driven it.
Never having actually driven it.
And only a little bit of actual track time.
Just to burn into my brain where everything goes and where things can go wrong.
And it was invaluable to have confidence in, I don't have to deal with where does the track go while I'm out here.
I just have to deal with, how can I drive the car?
And that was a huge help.
Excellent.
Because we debate Sim laps and it's always part of the driver's briefing.
Todd, as you know, the Sim kind of tells you where to go.
But you don't understand the undulations.
You don't understand the elevation change.
True.
You understand the weather, the pavement itself.
You can't really feel all of those things.
So I still have mixed opinions.
I'm just always curious to hear from people who like Sim's.
I've been asking the coaches.
Okay.
And it seems to be kind of split down the middle as well.
And some of them don't really do the simulation thing.
Others are kind of into it.
So it certainly can help.
Yeah.
But the real track is so very different.
I maintain that.
I feel like it's much more helpful for something like spa, which is predictable.
Then something like the ring, which isn't.
And yeah, true.
To Matt's point, you know, okay, do I go left right?
And you may know, oh, this is the corner that's always bad.
You don't necessarily even understand why it's always bad.
But you know this one goes awry for various reasons.
But then you get here.
And there's so much change in grip levels.
And the car moves around so much.
And it's bouncer.
We were talking about it at dinner tonight.
The 10 minute lap bounces the car around different than a nine minute lap.
Yeah.
The eight minute lap.
Yeah.
And the bumps are the same.
But that extra speed that you're carrying and the car that you have to be driving
changes that corner all of a sudden in a way that doesn't make sense.
That you'd have a logical way to break it down if it was a normal track.
And that's the thing that the ring just surprises people with.
But all of you, I think we're in agreement.
When we finally had the driver's meeting for the ring, you all were like,
you weren't kidding.
That is scary.
The driver's meeting at the ring makes you want to not drive.
But then you come out and you have a great time.
I'm thinking of all of you listening how you might not be into track driving
and more canyon driving.
And we've discussed this.
But the ring treated it like a track, but it's also so great
as a high speed, one direction canyon road.
That's how I think about it.
I think about the world's greatest canyon road.
Which is a good way to approach it.
We even heard coaches and instructors here talk about it in those kind of terms.
You know what it is?
It is raised on.
There are, you know, VLN raised 24 hours.
Yeah.
It's a different mindset, I think.
So if that's been something that's been intimidating to anybody listening,
it can be an intimidating track.
But I feel like it's something to work on.
And John O'Dars are always says, get out there and work on things you're not good at.
I think it's good.
It pushed everybody's comfort zone.
Certainly the Lamborghini.
Lamborghini is pushing the, pushing the, obviously.
Yeah.
If you have interest, definitely come with us because it pushes on your,
you're learning new skills, new car balance.
And pushing on your comfort zone, which is something that,
this is how you get better.
Yeah.
And Connor, just like you brought up skiing reference,
I've always thought that I wanted to ski with people better than me.
And so I want to drive with people better than me.
You know, hopefully that translates because we're able to show people what we've learned
and share that knowledge, which is a lot of fun.
Yeah.
Most of the better people are driving GT3s as well.
And they're all here.
Just carry so much speed.
It's so many of them.
They just appear out of nowhere and then they're gone.
Anybody else has something from the trip they want to talk about?
Anything you want to share?
Appreciate it.
Hey, I do.
And this is a receipt from the greater Philadelphia area.
Rashid and his background exhaust notes.
That's what we're dealing with.
Yes.
One thing that surprised me was during the rotor was seeing the language of sport
translated between different vehicles and how each one did something differently,
unique in their own right and correct in their own right, but just different.
And they all did the job, but just in a unique and different manner.
One thing that didn't surprise me was the level of professionalism,
professionalism, friendship, and support that Paul and Todd brought.
And I knew that they had RSR behind them, but I just didn't know how well in depth
and true and professional that they were as well.
So as a person, this is my first international flight into another country and by myself.
It's a lot of money.
And I knew I could trust Todd and Paul because I just listened to him for a long time.
And I felt like I did know them.
And then since I could trust them, it was easier to trust RSR
because they wouldn't trust somebody they couldn't trust, obviously.
So that was great.
And that whole support system over and above and beyond was amazing.
And it made the trip much, much easier to deal with as a, you know,
because it is stressful for your multi-day travel and your back-to-back in cars.
You're doing all kinds of different things.
Lots of high points, jet lag.
All kinds of problems jump up out of it.
And, you know, these guys, they've seen it and they've hampered them down
and dealt with them with Karen Cursey.
Thank you, sir.
Appreciate it very much.
Anybody else?
I think, and just the testament to RSR
because coming into this, and then tons of canyon driving
and, honestly, the ring after today, I was like,
I think the ring I felt more comfortable on and spa, being in an I-30N.
Big difference.
And selling today that I didn't think I would understand is how much to trust the car.
And I think it's a testament to how they set these cars up, how they work,
how they get the suspension set up.
But once I trusted the car to settle itself into the corners of the ring,
it almost took itself through the corners.
And in the steering inputs, you know, you play forza, you play a set of course,
everything, especially on a controller.
You're going left, right, left, right, thinking big inputs.
I don't think I turned the steering wheel past, I don't know, two o'clock.
To ten o'clock, unless it was a big corner, the whole track today at the ring.
It just, it wants to go where the ring wants to go,
and it was just a pleasure to see how it came together.
Very cool, that's awesome.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, if I wanted to inspire people that are on the fence or resort you to come,
you know, one of the most tangible benefits for me,
you know, having Paul and Todd here at Spa on the first day in the morning,
I went out with my instructor and I was over driving the car in the corners
and he was kind of saying, I don't know about this.
And then I asked Paul and Todd to go on a ride along and I went with them both.
And I learned, immeasurably, from their, you know, years of experience
and they're both, you know, really fast drivers.
And after the session, hopped in the car with my instructor,
and after the first stop, he was like, where is this good stuff?
Where did this good stuff come from?
And it came from Paul and Todd
because learning how they drove the car, where they broke, how hard they broke,
it expedited my learning curve by, you know, a hundred times.
So, and people who are on the fence about coming, I mean,
I mean, just for that one, you know, intangible benefit, you know,
fringe benefit, there's probably eight or nine or ten different fringe benefits,
but you know, that's one huge one for me.
Thank you for sharing.
And we're looking forward to having all of you on a trip.
We know this is going to be a shorter episode,
but we just, we like this as a tradition now.
So, you know, we kind of warned everybody, there would be questions and homework.
So, think about what you wanted to say.
So, we appreciate all of you sharing and putting that out there.
And hopefully, all of you listening, something resonates with you,
something that you can identify with here, and that it resonates with you.
But we're looking at this, you know, a very long time frame.
We keep doing it.
We love it.
We can't believe we've been coming for ten years.
We've been talking about that the last two or four days,
over and over and over with the RSR folks, whatever.
Because 2015 was the first time we just had dinner at Piston Klaus,
where you've probably all seen it.
You've probably seen it in some video or heard people talk about it.
It is the iconic restaurant you have to go to here at Nervurg.
And it is the place for everybody signs the ceiling.
So, Paul's gotten smart.
Paul brings the pen.
And he scouts the spot.
Yep.
Because then they kind of like maybe you bring the pen.
And then you scout for the spot.
But then when we were done tonight, we went and found the place where you and me,
an Edgar and Tom, went and signed the wall in 2015.
And we had bumbled through that film.
And I still cannot believe that is a decade ago.
And we are still coming.
And it's weird that it feels familiar now.
But it is, every bit is exciting.
It's like Christmas morning.
Every time we get to come.
And I love the ring.
I mean, I like spa, but I love the ring.
So it's just awesome to be on it today and be on it on all kinds of cars.
And just at least know where the track goes.
There are so many faster people here.
And people in tiny little stuff were like, how did you get up here?
I had a Fiesta ST hanging on my bumper right there.
Somebody knows the track very well.
So it's not about power for the ring.
It's a speed maintenance track, which is one of the reasons I like it so much.
Yeah.
It's really really cool.
Anything else from anybody?
Thank you very much.
It's great to have you guys with us.
Oh yeah, James.
James, please.
So hey, this is James Fisher from Charlotte, North Carolina.
And this is the third time that I've been able to come with Paul and Todd.
And I have to say it's been an incredible experience.
And it's no less incredible than the other two times.
I feel so privileged to be here and do this.
I continue to learn from both tracks.
You go to spa and you work on your technique.
You come to the ring, you use some of that technique,
and make sure you keep the shiny side up.
Yeah.
For sure.
For sure, RSR greatly appreciate when we return the cars in good condition.
They're big fans of that.
Yeah, absolutely.
But I couldn't say enough about this.
And I keep saying, hey, I got this from Paul,
is this is the once in a lifetime trip that you have to keep doing every year.
So you might hear from me again next year.
That's so good.
And if you want to join us on this trip again, we'll be going again next year.
We actually still have a trip to Europe later this year.
I can't believe it.
I almost keep forgetting about that.
In the beginning of July, we're doing an HOD trip.
That is the one to the ring.
Then Xanvort and Amsterdam.
And then on to spa.
And I will be the first to acknowledge that it's an expensive trip
because it is those three tracks back to back to back.
And I can't believe we're doing it.
And it's one of those things where the schedule aligned with RSR.
And we went, can we do this?
And RSR went, well, that's kind of cool.
So we're kind of figuring it out together.
But it's going to be a great, great trip.
It actually may never happen again.
So if you're listening to this and thinking, that sounds like a cool trip
and you can swing it.
We still have a little bit of space for this early July trip.
We would love to have you.
If that's not working for you, we have the Park City drive days
in late July.
I'm like, I'm sorry, I got to say Kota, don't I?
How can I not talk about Kota?
Have you heard everybody that we're going to Kota?
Circuit of the America is in Austin.
We are going there May 31st, June 1st.
Many of you are joining us on some of the road trip prior
or some of the road trip post.
Yes, yes, we are going to Table of the Dragon.
After being asked about it for nearly 20 years,
we're going to Table of the Dragon.
We're going to film it.
I'm very excited about it.
But if you don't join us for the road tour,
you can join us just at Kota either on track or just hanging out.
There's people coming to town, Paul, that have emailed at us,
that have just asked how to hang out.
There's a couple of people that I know are flying in
and just coming to the track, which is super cool.
There's going to be food trucks, cars and coffee.
We are doing, I'm going to go ahead and put it out there publicly.
We are doing, if everything works out, the 1000th podcast
from the top of the Kota tower.
It's going to be limited seating.
So we have to charge a little bit because we expect very few people
to be up there with us, but it's a very cool thing we're going to do.
And that Kota is very excited about that too.
So that's the end of May, early June.
The end of July is the Park City Drive Days with us,
which has all come to our area.
And we're going to take you on all the fun drives where we film,
which is cool.
And then September will be Bear Tooth Highway again,
which I'm very excited about.
I love that road.
It's my favorite road in the world so far.
So I'm very excited to do it.
We are doing that in September.
So if you can come on any of those trips, please come.
And I will answer the obvious question.
Yes, you will need a car.
Yes, you can tour or something and come with us because there's no track time.
Right.
But then you come back here next.
It's a progression.
Do the trips in the US and then come back here with us.
Ah, the exhaust echoing through the Eiffel Mountains.
Yes.
It's crazy.
Guys, thank you so much for listening.
Please write to us your great topic Tuesdays, your car conclusions,
your car debates.
We love seeing those.
And as Todd has mentioned before, after the 1000th podcast,
we are going to video.
And so we will have a new setup.
And we're excited to do that.
So there's going to be a little bit of finagling with the episodes.
It won't be exactly in order over the weeks.
We're just, we're going to have to take some time.
Plus we'll be traveling during during that code of time.
The 1000th and then a bit of a gap while we travel across the country.
Like a light gap.
But that's okay.
And we're looking forward to sharing this new format.
So we'll go to one podcast per week.
It'll be a video podcast a little bit longer.
And we'll let ourselves ramble a little bit more and touch on more things.
Drift maybe off of cars, though.
And then which might be fun too.
So it's going to be lots of good stuff.
We appreciate, as always, your listenership,
your viewership and your friendship.
Come on a trip with us.
Looking forward to having you.
Cheers everyone.
About this episode
Celebrating a decade of the Pilgrimage trip, Todd and Paul share highlights from their latest adventure at the Nürburgring and Spa. With a smaller group this year, attendees formed deeper connections while enjoying perfect weather and exhilarating track time. Guests recount their experiences, from surprising car performances to personal growth in driving skills. The camaraderie and support from RSR staff enhanced the trip, making it a memorable journey for all involved. The hosts also tease upcoming events and trips, inviting listeners to join future adventures.
Original notes
For their annual driving trip to the the Nürburgring and Spa-Francorchamps tracks, the guys celebrate 10 years and interview the drivers who joined!
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Everyday Driver Car Debate
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