A Rolls-Royce to Ukraine & how to drift a tank, with James Cameron | Episode 43
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Concept
petrolhead
A “petrolhead” is just someone who really loves cars. They’re usually excited about how cars work and drive, not only getting from A to B.
Company
Mission Motorsport
Mission Motorsport is a charity that uses cars and driving to help people who’ve served in the military. The idea is to support recovery and wellbeing through motorsport experiences.
Term
acronym
An acronym is a shortened word made from the first letters of a longer phrase. The military uses them a lot to refer to complicated processes quickly.
Term
reversing camera
A reversing camera shows what’s behind the car on a screen when you back up. It helps you avoid hitting things you can’t see.
Term
beeps
The beeps are warnings from sensors when you’re getting too close to something while reversing. They’re there to help you notice hazards faster.
Term
gunner
The gunner is the person in the tank who aims the main gun. Their job is to look through the sights and help the tank hit targets.
Concept
engaging a target
Engaging a target means taking the shot at an enemy. It starts with identifying where the target is so the gun can be aimed.
Concept
tanks
They’re talking about tanks—big armored military vehicles. The key point is that driving them is different from driving a car, especially when you’re trying to see where you’re going.
Term
75-millimeter gun
The “75-millimeter” part is the size of the tank’s main gun. A bigger number generally means a larger projectile, which affects how the tank fights.
Term
wing mirror
A wing mirror is the side mirror on the outside of the car. If it gets knocked off, it usually means the car got too close to something.
Concept
sloped armor
Sloped armor means the armor is tilted instead of straight. Tilting it makes it harder for a projectile to penetrate, because it has to go through more armor material.
Concept
Operation Motorsport
Operation Motorsport is a charity that uses car racing to support people who served in the military. Instead of just traditional support programs, it uses motorsport events and community to help veterans.
Concept
IEDs
IEDs are basically homemade bombs. They’re used to hurt people, often by being hidden along roads or near routes.
Concept
Dakar
The Dakar is a very tough off-road race where teams drive across huge distances over rough terrain. It’s famous for being hard and requiring a lot of planning and skill.
Concept
high voltage electrical systems
Some cars now use electricity at much higher voltages than a normal household-style system. That means the wiring and safety rules are more serious, and people need special training to work around it.
Company
Jaguar Land Rover
Jaguar Land Rover is a car company that makes Jaguar and Land Rover vehicles. Here, they’re talking about how the company began hiring and supporting veterans and measuring the results.
Company
Lotus
Lotus is a well-known British car brand that makes performance cars. In this part of the conversation, it’s mentioned as one of the companies doing positive work beyond just building cars.
Company
Stellantis
Stellantis is a big group that owns many car brands. In this discussion, it’s brought up as another company involved in positive initiatives.
Company
Morgan
Morgan is a British car maker known for unique, traditional-looking cars. The speaker is using it as another example of a company contributing positively.
Concept
lived out at the ring
“The Ring” usually means the Nürburgring track in Germany. It’s a tough circuit, so cars that spend time there are often prepared for hard driving.
Car
Maserati 4200 GT
The Maserati 4200 GT is a luxury sports car/grand tourer from Maserati. It’s the kind of car people buy for the driving feel and style, but older ones can need ongoing maintenance. Here, it’s mentioned because it was sold to pay for the shed.
Term
oil leaks
They’re saying the car leaks oil, but in places that are common/expected. That usually means it’s not a brand-new or totally broken problem—more like something you keep an eye on.
Concept
Banger racing
Banger racing is grassroots motorsport using older, often inexpensive cars—typically with safety modifications and sometimes engine swaps. The speaker’s point is that certain cars disappeared because they were used hard in this kind of racing.
Concept
vinyl roof
A vinyl roof is a covering that imitates the look of a convertible top on a fixed-roof car. On classic cars, it’s a styling feature that can also affect how the car is restored and maintained (especially around edges and seams).
Concept
track day
A track day is when people drive on a race circuit for practice and fun. It’s not a race, but you can push the car harder than on public roads.
Concept
track night
A track night is a driving event on a race track after dark. It feels different because you can’t see as clearly and it changes how you judge the road.
Concept
Ukraine
They’re talking about Ukraine, the country involved in the news and international support efforts. In this part of the episode, it’s mainly about people and events, not cars.
Car
Toyota Hilux
The Toyota Hilux is a tough pickup truck that’s famous for being reliable. Here it’s being used for convoy work because it can handle rough roads and long trips.
Company
Williams
Williams is a famous British racing team/engineering company. The point here is that racing companies build skills that can also help with serious engineering challenges outside of motorsport.
Concept
£7,000 covers purchase, servicing, tyres, and deployment costs
They’re describing how the money isn’t only used to buy the truck. It also pays for getting it serviced, putting on the right tires, checking it over, and shipping it out for use.
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How could you make a sort of nonstick tank, which is fabulous?
And then I was asked to go and comment on it.
I said, well, how do you get in it?
I'm leveled out.
What?
Hello, and welcome to Evo podcast, episode 43.
This episode, I'm joined by Henry Cashpot.
Hello.
Jim Cameron.
Hello.
Dickie Meadon. Hello.
I'm Stuart Gadigat.
So, Jim, you are a guest on the Evo podcast.
Very welcome.
Thank you very much.
We'd like just to introduce yourself.
Who you are.
Why would we want to talk to you today?
And also, why one of those?
Why are you called tank slider on social media handles?
Well, I can start with the easy question, which is I brought biscuits.
That's why you're here.
That's the answer.
Which is why I'm here.
So, my name's James Cameron.
I am a lifelong petrolhead.
Always love cars.
I've done bits and pieces with Evo over the years,
which has been a great privilege.
But I served in the army through until end of 2012.
And laterally, for the last 14 years, I've been running a charity
that I've founded while I was serving called Mission Motorsport,
the forces motorsport charity.
So, which gets to do all sorts of joyous things,
but is very much around harnessing that, you know,
thrill of driving an automotive and the love of machine
and helping it with people's recovery journeys
who've served in the military and, you know,
perhaps had a bit of a tough time on the way,
put it into good things.
Why I'm tank slider?
Well, you just...
Somebody had already taken James Cameron, I think, on top.
On to it. Somebody had already thought of that.
He's more of a navy person, isn't he?
Yeah, no, he sort of does.
His watch is more expensive than mine.
That's certainly true.
But when I was a young officer,
I discovered, thanks to some of the people I was serving with,
that you can do skids in tanks.
And particularly on a very icy, cobbly, German tank park,
we'd got the hang of doing...
Panzerplatz.
Yeah, Panzerplatz, which was fantastic.
I was doing Christmas duties,
which you get to do if you've also been found out
for doing other things.
You become the Sultan's, the young officer's friend,
because you're doing the rubbish duties.
We got bored and there was no one around.
And unfortunately, I didn't realise that the one person
who'd stayed around on camp was the Brigadier,
who was walking his spaniel through an idyllic wintry scene,
when all of a sudden a Challenger 1 appeared
around the side of the tank shed.
It's very, very crossed up.
And the spaniel went directly underneath the tank and emerged.
Fortunately, absolutely fine.
And unfortunately, the Brigadier was less interested
in just how beautifully executed the Scandinavian S
in a 60-odd, 65-ton main battle tank was.
And a bit more bothered about the fact that his dog
had had a very near-death experience by going underneath it
all together.
I missed it.
But yeah, that's really where Tank Slider comes from.
How does the mechanics...
Now we've got to say, how do you do that?
If you've got the levers for...
Yeah, no, it's just a dab of oppo, isn't it?
It's opposite stick.
Yeah, it's opposite stick.
How do you initiate the slide?
Oh, you were just momentum and enthusiasm and gung-ho.
And the engine's in the back.
Oh, so it's just a big 9-11.
So you back off.
Yeah, so literally, yeah, you back off and the thing will slew.
So it does all the same dynamics as a car,
but your contact patch is sort of two long contact patches
instead of four separate contact patches
that you've got on the car.
So it'll do a lot of the same things.
And also...
One side, obviously.
Well, yeah, well, they don't...
It depends how fast you're going.
So in a sort of really pure tracked vehicle,
one will be going slightly faster than the other
in order to allow it to go around the outside of a bend.
But this is presumably momentum that you skid it, isn't it?
Yeah, well, that's what we discovered.
And it was really slippy.
And yeah, we'd had a couple of...
We had a few goes and got quite handy at it.
Which, yeah, was...
Did you say, watch this?
It was quite exciting.
Before you did it?
Well, I don't get what...
It was our last go.
So, like, just one last...
One last lap, you know.
How can it be, watch this, you know, various other,
you know, sort of phrases that were said.
You were very fortunate that Aston wasn't there photographing it
because he'd asked you to do one more go...
Bit of smoke.
Bit of smoke.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, Challenger 2, you can do that.
I was going to say, what's the difference between Challenger 1
and Challenger 2?
So, there's actually quite a lot.
In the same way that there's got a big difference between
Challenger 2 and Challenger 3, which is the new one,
which is they're going to re-engineer
some of the old hulls in order to be able to do.
Are we talking, sort of, 991 to 992?
No, no, no.
Or are we talking 930 to 993 or something, maybe?
Maybe we'll do it and then 993 to 996.
The big thing they haven't changed is the lump in the back.
That's not changed as significantly.
So, we're not talking, sort of, you know, 993 to 996.
We haven't got more change.
But, you know, all of a sudden having car play
is going to make a big difference to the crews.
They're going to really appreciate that, I think.
Well, you did ask.
Yeah, absolutely.
It's a relevant question.
Yeah, and most of the big changes are with
with Challenger 3 are guns.
So, it suddenly goes smoothbore gun,
different kind of ammunition and things like that.
But it's the technology in the turret that just goes up a level.
Difference in between Challenger 1 and 2.
Well, actually, it wasn't that great a difference,
but I, because I had a weird career,
I spent lots of time doing tank stuff right at the very beginning,
which is mid-lake 90s.
And then Wenton did weird and wonderful things.
So, I worked at Portland down for a bit.
I did lots of strange foreign deployments in weird places.
I spent a lot of time overseas in Afghanistan and Iraq
and sort of other interesting countries.
And I hadn't had anything to do with tanks.
And in the meantime, the tank that I was trained on,
Challenger 1 had gone out of service and Challenger 2 was in.
And I did a squadron leader tool doing specialist stuff.
And then they said,
we want you to come back and command a squadron
at the Royal Tank Regiment.
And I had to go and do a conversion course.
Did you complain about lack of track feel
and it's a bit heavier, a bit wider,
doesn't feel quite the same.
Well, it's amazing though how long some corporate memories are.
When you turn up down at Lowellworth to do your gunnery course
and things like that.
And it was like,
ah, Major Cameron, we've been expecting you back.
It's like, we remember you.
Oh, goodness.
Yeah.
So the principles, though,
are sort of very much the same of those kind of things.
And actually, laterally in Afghanistan,
the reason why I was brought back
was to take a vehicle called Viking out of service
and bring into service something
that was an urgent operational requirement.
So normally the military takes a very long time to procure kit
and it goes through a process that I think has carried me
off the top of my head,
some concept assessment, demonstration,
manufacture, in-service disposal.
I think it is off the top of my head.
Good acronym.
Yeah, absolutely.
And these, the military is amazing for acronyms.
There's one which is for,
what are the things you need to take with you
if you're a sentry in an armored location
and they'd come up with this acronym for it.
But the acronym wasn't a word.
It didn't make any sense at all.
And it really annoyed me because I'm like,
but it's not a word.
How does it help you remember?
Because it's just a random collection of letters
that you're just saying quickly.
And it was, you know,
you have to remember like a label and a pen
and like just really stupid things,
but they do things like that
to help stupid soldiers like me remember stuff.
And the most annoying thing about it is,
having got really upset about it,
was the instructor at the time said,
yeah, but you'll remember it, won't you?
And so I can remember Urcat Lee
and somebody from Devon.
Yeah, because he was a West Country.
He said too.
And he said, oh, but you'll remember it, sir.
Urcat Lee.
The things you need to take with you when you've got,
the things I've forgotten.
Because that piece of information
pushed all of the useful things out of my head.
You could have been a hedge fund manager or anything,
but that didn't.
Man, I could have been, yeah, successful and instead.
Here you are in a podcast with Eva.
Yeah, where did it all come from?
My goodness, cheers.
Did you not learn,
first time you came and worked with us?
Urcat, no.
Urcat Lee.
Oh my God, yeah.
Urcat Lee.
So there you go.
Now you're going to remember that.
It's just down the road from Balstable, isn't it?
It is.
Yeah, it is.
It's a very narrow lane to get there, isn't it?
Unless you've got a tank.
So how fast is a tank, V-Max,
and how far away can you hit a target whilst moving?
Everything you can see here, out of this window.
You can hit.
Wow.
That's all the Bedfordshire.
Brilliant.
It's pretty much.
Corby, could we hit Corby?
I think that's a good hit.
How would you know?
That's always the question, isn't it?
So longest tank to tank kill.
There are lots of questions that I'm not prepared for.
It is huge.
You know, miles away.
Five, six, seven miles.
Because if you're a tank commander,
you're not actually driving it, are you?
No, you're not driving.
So you're talking to someone.
You're in the turret.
You're doing the big kind of valve.
The driving about bit is someone else.
So the driving about bit is someone else.
But where you're sat, and you've got your head in a site,
you've got a periscopic site above you
that can go 360 degrees.
So the driver is completely independent
to where you're sat and where you're going.
So the bit of the tank that you're in,
and you can see, is pointing where the gun is going,
but the driver can be going in that direction,
or that direction, or in the same direction.
You're always looking in the direction of the gun.
So unless you get your head out of the site,
and then look around,
and then there's a bit of figuring out where the hull is
and which way he's going.
Because you'll say left and right to him.
It might be right and left in actuality.
Absolutely.
And if he's reversing, you've got to give him...
Because he can't see behind him.
Challenge your three.
You can see, you know, we've...
You've got a reversing camera and beeps and stuff like that.
When you can't play, you've got a reversing camera as well, you know.
It's part of a package.
You wouldn't want to damage anything.
No, no.
You're not really that bothered, if you're honest.
When you're really using the things, you're not too fast.
So you've...
You're sat this way.
The tank's going in that direction.
The gunner, who's basically sat immediately down in front of you,
he's looking exactly where the gun is looking.
So he can be engaging something.
You're looking into a site and you're actually...
You can be looking in the direction of the gun.
You can be looking in the direction of where the hull's going.
Or you can be looking somewhere else altogether.
Normally looking for the next thing.
I was going to say, so the gunner is that you're looking for the next target
or where to scarper to presumably...
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah.
So you can be looking for that.
So you can actually find the next target and lays it independently.
So you'll get a very accurate range position.
It appears on the map.
Challenge your three is then sharing all of that information with the other tanks.
They all go, there's something interesting here at this exact spot.
And it's also set up.
So if the gunner, you might have authorised him to go on
and he's engaging a target, which is in front.
As soon as he goes right, boom, that's destroyed.
It will whip round and point to wherever you're going.
Even if the tank in the meantime is moving in that direction.
You almost pre-selected it.
Completely.
And you've also got these 360 degree episcopes around you.
So you can sit there and look all the way around under armor.
So everyone takes...
Everybody says, winter, don't be a tank commander, you know, in your car.
And that always really annoys me.
Because, you know, it's people driving through a little bit of the side of the window
and they managed to clear with their hands.
Don't be a tank commander.
You're like, no, that's the tank driver.
He's the one who sat down.
If you were a tank commander in winter, you would have opened your sunroof
and you literally would have shot this out of the top.
That's what the tank commander did.
Yes.
How much could you actually, presumably, you can only see there.
So you can't see where you were skidding it.
So if bad guys are going to shoot at you, you don't have your head out of the top as the commander.
You'd be sat down looking through the episcopes.
And they're really cool.
So if you see something interesting over there, there's a button underneath it.
You go bang and the turret whips round.
So your gun has gone.
It's like moveable DTM balance.
You suddenly sort of find yourself...
Yeah, absolutely.
So everyone's like, whoa.
Basically, you don't want to be easily distracted in that job.
No.
I have a really short attention span.
Yeah, absolutely.
All of these things are terrible.
And then you've got radio sets.
So you'll probably have three...
Do you have a different channel for different guys?
Because otherwise it would be closed or open channel for everyone in the tank.
Well, it's open channel for everybody in the tank.
So you're just talking and like this.
So everyone in the crew, including the driver who's down below is doing those.
He can't hear the radios necessarily.
And depending on...
You've got an operator there who'll normally be listening into something the same as you are
and will probably be listening into something else as well.
And it's sort of different layers of command.
So for the squadron leader, you'd be listening in on a regimental and probably a battle group.
One higher up.
Of course.
Because you're running the whole show.
Yeah, so you've got like 14 tanks as well as the ones that are immediately sort of flanking you.
So you're thinking about quite a lot at the same time.
There's a lovely, lovely quote, which...
God, forgive me if I get my phone out, but I should be able to find it very quickly.
Which is from a grant tank commander in the western desert.
Which I've just demonstrated I can't find.
But you are holding a conversation whilst doing that.
Yeah, that's it.
Thereby demonstrating your mum.
Yeah, that's it.
My ability to do that.
But presumably you can drive the tank from with your head above.
Yeah.
If you haven't got any bad shooting at you.
Absolutely.
In the answer to your question about how much could you see when you're doing skids,
I wasn't down closed down or looking through an aposcope.
You've got your head up, but the turret is immediately above you.
And your effective forward view is sort of like that.
You've got about 90 degrees on that sort of forward art.
You get different, because if you're in the driver's position and you're right up the front,
are you?
Yes.
So everything's swinging around behind you.
Whereas you're in the centre.
And you're actually much higher up.
Much, much higher up.
Yeah, and also rotating with the turret as well.
So it's like a 9-11 Dakar.
It's a bit like a 9-11 Dakar.
Yeah, that somebody's then sort of stuck a turret on top of a new turret.
That massive gun was the only way you could make a Dakar any better, isn't it?
Two guns, that's it.
That would be really good.
But here's the tank commander.
So this is a direct quote from a tank commander in the Western Desert in 1942.
And it's often trotted out as a reality of fighting in tanks.
Those things had a 75-millimeter gun that was set into the hull.
So as he sat there, he's got...
So if you think about what I've just sort of described in the tank,
you're sat there with a thing in front of you,
and you're actually looking in that direction.
So you're looking in that direction and doing that.
The tank is moving around,
and you're giving the driver left and right in order to be able to do it.
And he might be pointing that way going in that direction.
The gunner in the meantime, he's engaging a target that is straight ahead of you as it's going.
And then you've got two different radio nets in one ear
and one different radio net in that ear,
who are all saying different things and overlapping because they're not...
It sounds very much like an either long-term planning meeting or something.
Absolutely.
It sounds a little bit more organised if you ask me.
And then someone in the tank is asking, you know, like, can I have a cup of tea?
Oh, no, then...
Yeah, you've done those.
But this lovely quote from 1942 is,
the 75-millimeter gun is firing.
The 37-millimeter gun is firing.
That's the one in the turret, but it's traversed round the wrong way.
The browning is jammed, which is his machine gun directly in front of him.
I'm saying driver advance,
but he's saying it on the A-set, so he's actually...
The driver can't hear him and he's transmitting it over the radio set to, you know,
a battle group who suddenly got some idiot saying driver advance over the battle group net.
And the driver who can't hear me is reversing.
And as I look over the top of the turret, I see 12 enemy tanks 50 yards away.
Someone hands me a cheese sandwich.
It's exactly the same today.
It's exactly the same.
So that wonderful quote from 19, you know, from the Western Desert in 1942.
It's still very much...
And the sandwich comes with black fingerprints.
Obviously.
Yeah.
So how many of you are in a modern tank?
Four in a main battle tank.
Yeah.
So starting with the driver, he's the only one who's in the hull.
Yeah.
So he's pointing in the...
He's got the most comfy seat.
He's laid back like a race car.
His knees and his feet are really quite high.
He's steering as you sort of...
Everybody immediately did the dab a boppo, you know,
as you start steering.
Imagine he's steering wheel.
It sticks.
Yeah.
So he's got sticks on either side.
They're quite heavy when you're just setting off.
And as you get light, they come alive.
And it's literally just fingertips.
And then throttle...
Is there a throttle and brake?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So pretty conventional sort of throttle and brake thing.
And it's a, you know, V12 Rolls Royce twin turbo knocks out a bit of power.
It's quite torquey.
And transmission wise, it just...
Yeah.
Does all that for you.
It does.
Yeah.
It does all of that sort of stuff for you.
And as you haul into a corner, it either is then slowing the outside track to the inside
track.
So the thing starts to slew around.
As you get slower or you haul more on, it will actually stop the inside track.
If you're stationary, you can go like that.
And one will go forwards, one will go backwards and you spin on the set.
Like one of those dreadful G-wagon.
Or EV.
Yeah.
So all these EV can't be gone.
Oh, look at that.
Yeah.
No, but it's called a tank turn.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And they've been doing it for years.
Generally speaking, tank turns are really, really cool unless you're the Duke of Richmond
and some idiot has just done it on your lawn at the end of Festival Speed to show off to
his mates.
And I don't know if the G-wagon is still speaking to us.
He remembered that for quite a long time afterwards.
Yeah.
Pumping white.
Still reminds me about it occasionally.
Actually the thing that really caused...that wasn't me.
That was Anthony Reid who I made the mistake of letting Anthony Reid have a little go in
it.
Actually, Anthony Reid in a bath tank.
It was just opened up whole in the world.
How can you make a tank more lethal?
Put Anthony Reid in it.
I guess your defence was you were overseas in the 90's so you didn't see him race a touring
car.
Yeah.
I had just watched him take the left hand wing mirror off that Chevron that he went up
the hill in and he knocked it off on the flint wall.
Which having driven up there during a Festival Speed, it's so intimidating.
It's ridiculous.
Most people stay as far away as possible from it unless you're in a tank, presumably.
Maybe he just thinks he's in a tank.
Well, yeah.
Well, he's certainly his...he's not big on listening to briefings and things like that.
I'm telling what he's told, certainly so.
But yeah, Anthony was great.
But in between Anthony and I, we dug up a bit of the Duke's edge of his cricket pitch.
And I wasn't forgiven for that for quite some time.
Oh, the cricket pitch.
It wasn't quite the cricket pitch.
Maybe it's silly me off.
That's something like he said.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what he did say.
Yeah.
It's very nice that the lesses come back.
Apart from the being shot at whilst you're doing it a bit, it sounds brilliant fun.
Why has no one ever done tank racing?
Well, actually, the people who have are the Russians who host the tank games every year.
And...
Oh, I think I've seen a YouTube clip of that.
Oh, yeah, I do.
Go and have a look.
Go and have a look.
And it stopped, really, actually with the war in Ukraine because they don't know how to
have allies to do it with.
So it got more and more ropey as they did it, as the Russians did it.
So the tanks are sort of T90, Soviet era things.
And the countries that they're competing against are the very finest from across the
world when you go and have a look on YouTube.
And there's various random African nations who clearly owed the Russians something,
or bought Russian kit, would turn up and have a go in it.
And so the tank games on YouTube are absolutely glorious.
Are they in there in, like, Group N tanks?
And then the Russians turn that with a full Group B to T90?
Pretty much.
And then, you know, and then somebody rolls it.
And because that's definitely possible.
So you've seen the video and that's just terrifying.
Is that bad?
Can you get out if you've turned it?
No, because most of the lids are on the top.
When I was at Portland Down, actually, I was involved in a program.
I wasn't involved in a program.
I got asked to comment on a program.
So you have some wonderful things where scientists will get together and they will follow a thread
of science that absolutely will identify a problem to something that nobody's ever
realized is a problem.
But they'll absolutely pull away on it for a while.
And there was a lovely program which was about sloped armor.
Works for a number of reasons.
It makes the effective thickness of the armor greater because you put as an angle, so it's
further to go through and things could glance off.
And somebody had gone, well, the glance off thing is interesting.
What if you made a sort of nonstick coating to the, you know, actually, would that help
something to be deflected instead of penetrating if it literally just skidded off the surface?
So there was this wonderful program that they were pursuing, which was all about how can you
make a sort of nonstick tank, which is fabulous.
And then I was asked to go and comment on it.
I said, well, how do you get in it?
And they were like, what?
Well, they haven't got a door on the side.
You don't step in.
You've got to climb on top of it.
And just the idea of a crew.
I'm like slipping.
Scrapping.
I just thought that was absolutely glorious.
But yeah, I don't think that program went any further.
And then, unfortunately, should they end up in somewhere warm, frying eggs on it?
Yeah.
All of these things are possible.
Perfect.
We'd better talk about something other than tanks.
Oh, tanks.
Teflon tanks.
Well, I was going to talk about, because it's on your t-shirt, race remembrance and your
recent track day that we, so race remembrance, I remember I wasn't at Eva at the time,
but the first time you did it, which was 2014.
Yeah.
Started a sort of a relationship with Anglesey, hasn't it?
Yeah.
With you guys.
But yeah, just what is race remembrance and who came up with the idea?
I think I know who it is.
I think I'm looking at him.
No.
Well, that's it.
So I credited with it, but it wasn't me.
So I, the manager at the time of Anglesey, I'd collared at Autosport as we held in January
at the NEC.
Was that Richard?
Was Richard.
Richard Peacock, but he had a chap in there who, who, who was a, he was a lovely guy and
I'd managed to collar him and said that we really want to do something.
It'd be great.
We haven't got any money because we're a charity, et cetera.
You know, could you do something for us?
And he said, well, yeah, why don't you have a couple of days, but we'll do it at the end
of the year, effectively in time, which would be commercially not that viable for them.
And therefore, you know, it's something that the circuit could afford to do for us.
And we batted around a couple of dates in November and then, and they said, well, yeah,
this is going to be the weekend.
And we sort of looked and went, oh, that's remembrance weekend.
And I'd sort of thought, hey, let's do a track day or just what a great opportunity to have
Anglesey to yourself.
Let's take some folk up there and we could do some instruction and go and stand on a
couple of corners, really do some theory and piss about, do some skids.
It'll be great fun.
What's not to like.
And it was actually a guy called John Earp, who was in the process of leaving the military
at the same time as, as me, who was a helicopter pilot.
And John was about to take over flying a Knaven air ambulance.
So he was a local or becoming a local.
And John's like, no, we need to have a race.
And I'm sorry.
Okay.
Well, you know, maybe, maybe one of the days he was like, no, no, no, absolutely needs
to be a race.
We can talk to race organizers.
We know how to do this.
And for us, that was genuinely the, it felt like we had two and a half employees at that
time.
I was the half.
I was, we had two professionals and then me who was doing it sort of in my spare time.
And it felt a bit like Guernsey launching a space mission, but in 2014 with a bit of
support from Mazda UK, we had 26 cars on the grid for the first ever race of remembrance
held on Remembrance Weekend.
And we, this idea of always had that an unusual format, hasn't it?
Yeah.
Of where you stop a race in full flow and do a service of remembrance in the pit lane
and then away you go again.
And you have this wonderful sort of, and I thought, I thought it was a ridiculous idea
from the outset.
And as I was stood there and the weather had been appalling as, as one would expect.
And then the sun came out as we started doing this.
As it can do.
Yeah.
As it also will do without a doubt.
You know, you will have everything.
And it did it for the remembrance service.
And I just remember standing in the window drops.
And the only thing you could hear was the waves on the, yeah, just over the cliff, isn't it?
From the...
And when you're doing that on the falling notes of a bugle with, you know, best part
of a thousand people, now two and a half thousand people all in a pit lane, it's, it's extraordinary.
It makes the airs go up on your arms.
And I stood there and I had these two simultaneous feelings.
The first one of which was, this is wonderful.
I mean, this is, this is really great.
And the second feeling that I had simultaneous, it was like, I've got to do this every year now.
It really is a, it's part of the calendar, though, isn't it?
Now, I think people...
It's a really special thing to come and do the race.
I've been lucky enough to do, to do the race.
And it's normally a race meeting.
The race is the most important thing, is it?
So everyone's there for this.
It's a service of remembrance.
That we just write about.
It's like the least, it's enjoyable, but it's the least important component of the whole weekend somehow.
It's a very sobering but enjoyable thing to do.
It is really poignant.
It's an amazing thing to do.
And, you know, when you've got two thousand people there in Anglesey, we're in our fifth year of running
a karting race of remembrance.
We have an online race of remembrance that allows anybody to, you know, take place anywhere in the world.
You know, we have people from different countries.
You get overseas teams do the actual race.
We do. Yeah.
I mean, I think we had Dutch teams there across when you were there.
The Americans and Canadians, absolutely.
Well, they came across, it was a friend of mine called Graham Martin, who's a wonderful bloke.
He and I were both in Iraq in 2003, I think.
And he's a wonderful guy.
And he'd followed our progress because he listens to Radio the Monty.
He's just a huge endurance racing fan.
So when the charity first set up, he'd heard, you know, Heimdall banging on about the stuff that we were doing and had made a donation.
We got in touch and he came across for a race of remembrance and just went, this is incredible.
I need to bring back my countrymen to come and see it and brought back some people who were so inspired that they set up Operation Motorsport, which is a U.S.
and Canadian charity that's doing a very similar thing.
You know, it's harnessing Motorsport in order to help people who've served in the military that's now, you know, they'll be approaching their 10th birthday soon,
which is just extraordinary.
And it all sort of came from this wonderful thing.
But it is really poignant and it's not, but it's contemporary.
It's not sort of thinking about, you know, the deprivations of the First World War and things like that.
You know, you're you very much got a got a front rank of people who are in the middle of their own sort of contemporary stories.
But I think everybody there, Christ, we all, you know, we live through COVID.
We've all suffered deprivations at different times.
And you're never quiet or silent or in the moment, people pay a lot of money to do mindfulness training.
Because if you find yourself silent, you get your phone out straight away, then you distract yourself with stuff.
So it's actually quite a discipline to to do nothing and to be just alone in your thoughts.
But when you're not alone in your thoughts and it's with 2000 other people at the same time, it's it's really it's really quite a moving thing.
So it's lovely.
It was Motorsport UK's event of the year last year.
This year, I think that's been won by another event, British Grand Prix.
I've never heard of it myself, but, you know, apparently it's a great thing.
But it's it's lovely.
It's a great because it has it's evolved into this, as you just said, big thing and taken on by others.
But it was very early days of Mission Motorsport, wasn't it?
Yeah, it was a big thing to take on.
How did the charity come about?
And what's what's the premise behind it?
And where is it now?
Because you've just sort of moved on in your role with with it as well, haven't you?
Well, I have.
So I mean, you know, when we when we started,
it really was because I I mean, I was commanding the Armour Group in Afghanistan in 2010 into 2011.
And that was the vehicle that was going out of service was Viking sort of the two boxed tract
articulated in the middle things, which versions of which the Royal Marines still use,
mainly the Arctic taken places like that.
And they're an amazing vehicle that can go just about anywhere, very low ground pressure.
Yeah. So they're incredibly good off road.
But they've been targeted very successfully and increasingly successfully.
You've always got an arms race of
of one side against the other, trying to, you know, trying to outthink.
And that was being replaced by this thing called Warthog, that in incredibly quick timelines,
I was sort of taught earlier about Cadmid, it takes forever.
So you order a laptop in 23 years, you get a ZX81, you know, in a hardened box,
because it's been made to military specifications in a world of, you know,
cheap, you know, not even Panasonic Toughbooks, you know, just cheap things.
It doesn't work.
Doesn't matter, because all the information is in the cloud.
You just get another one on the way you go.
So to be able to bring out a vehicle in just two years was incredibly
fast to do that under urgent operational requirement.
But you're doing a job as well, which is about closing with and killing the enemy
of fundamentally sort of taking and holding ground.
And that puts you in harm's way.
And therefore, you know, you've got bad guys who are trying to do bad things to you
in exactly the same way.
And so, you know, we knew that on the previous tour, we'd lost,
you know, we'd lost people, Scotty's Little Soldiers,
which is a service charity that some might have heard of.
Corporal Scott was a Royal Tank Regiment, Corporal who was killed in Viking in 2009,
amongst others.
And so to go out there with Warthog, we knew we were sort of going into harm's way.
And the best way of defending against IEDs is, yeah, V-shaped hulls and blast
attenuation and stuff like that.
But the best way to do it is don't run over them.
So therefore, be as unpredictable and as maneuverist as you possibly can be
to be really difficult for them to have anticipated where you're going to be
was very much what we did.
So we went out a lot.
And I was very fortunate that we got to bring everybody home,
which was a mixture of, you know, good kit.
I think I would have gone to nine funerals had we been in Vikings and as it was,
you know, got to bring people home, but not necessarily intact.
Yeah.
And, you know, that's sort of a mixture of luck and things like that.
So when I came back, I was spending quite a lot of time in sort of
Queen Elizabeth's hospital meeting people, and it was at the same time that
there were some wonderful things happening like Top Gear talking about,
you know, some lads who were off to go and do the Dakar.
And that's a great idea.
But when you meet a bloke who's in the bed next door to one of our lads who's
getting extra bits sawn off him as a result of an infection he's received
because he's been told he's a hero and he's going to go and do the Dakar.
So he's been hill rallying, but with no medical risk assessments in place.
And that for him was the difference between going on a program where he can go on
prosthetics and walk again or being in a wheelchair for the rest of his life.
You're not helping him if you haven't done that.
And so to put that duty of care piece right in the center of what we do,
because it's not about the sport, the sport's just the tool that you're using
to help people who are on a journey of recovery and to help them and their families
is the big piece.
So that race retrain recover bit that underpins what the charity does
has been there since the beginning because sport is just the tool.
It's the thing that you're using to get people off the sofa and engaged
and then to turn it into something really positive.
And so those links to the automotive industry came really quite early.
And it was three things like Invictus Games in 2014 that was amazing.
Nobody knew what it was going to be like.
And JLR, bless them had gone.
You know, yeah, we're in for this.
You know, let's make it something great.
And as much as it was most sport, because I remember coming to you very early days,
and it was kind of, it was, I suppose most sport is so much more than just the driver
and talked about the race, but it was getting people involved wherever they could be.
And then you had successes with putting people with manufacturers to do all sorts of engineering.
And they were the team of people with diverse skills that are all you belong to the same
type of thing.
I think a lot of your guys, when I've been lucky enough to meet quite a few of them,
and they've been so focused and so part of something much bigger than them.
And then I guess when you're discharged from the army,
you come in terms of whatever's happened to you.
And yeah, you're not part of anything anymore, are you?
So to see your guys gelling as team and finding that actually,
I might have a arm missing or a leg missing or, but I can still be really, really good at
what I'm doing here and enjoy the success that comes from that.
You remember me saying that, you know, these are people that you go out to interesting and say,
look, here's something that's going to turn up on time.
It's used to working ridiculously, more hours than you will ever do,
kind of sort of, and is also, you know, has more skills than, you know, you would ever believe
in all sorts of theories that have been put because of some of the army training for
high voltage electrical systems and all of the things that we're coming to see.
And it's everywhere, but there's a translation piece and it's often that's the translation.
So serving the military is a very different culture.
And so there's a bit of helping people across that sort of culture divide from one thing to the other.
But it uses different language as well.
And high voltage in the automotive industry got a big shake up when, you know,
the government white paper came out in 2018 that the road to zero,
you know, which, whether it was going to be hydrogen or whether it was going to be,
it was electrification at the center of it.
And you suddenly needed people who couldn't just do 12 volts or even 240 volt AC,
they needed to do sort of big fat orange tubes underneath the bonnet of your car.
Which was high voltage.
And we'd sat down to do a, with MOD, a skills thing and said,
look, can we find out who is leaving the military with high voltage qualifications?
And we had actually the Navy stuff turned out, it was a not a figurative,
it was a literal stack of paperwork.
You know, these are the courses that the high voltage stuff and the Navy and the Army and the RAF.
And so I go because I know nothing about the Navy.
I know a bit too much about the Royal Air Force.
So I go looking for tanks.
And I'm looking for those, I'm looking for those roles,
because we talked about that turret of the tank that you hit the button and it whips round.
It's not some phthalo going like that.
That's moving 26 tons of turret round on the move and stabilizing the gun.
It's, it's some, it's some pretty big electrons.
So I go looking for driver Mac and gun and Mac,
because there's the point at which they're allowed into the metadines.
I don't even know what a metadine is, but it's the,
it's the electric gubbins in the turret that drives the turret round,
which is over a certain amount.
And I'm looking for those trades and I couldn't find them.
I don't know why aren't they there?
And we genuinely spent a day sort of head scratching.
And we're looking for that high voltage keyword search thing.
And then when, hang on a minute, what's high voltage?
And high voltage at different industries do it in different, different ways,
but high voltage as far as automotive industry was concerned,
is anything over 60 volts, depending on which bit of, of legislation you look at.
Oh, so the threshold was different.
Yeah. So Tesla, you know, what's that 400, 600?
We're now seeing 800 volt vehicles, military high voltage over a thousand.
So, you know, and you're like, for God's sake,
so these people have actually got all the behaviors, the competencies, the skill sets,
but they haven't got the language.
They don't know that they haven't got a certificate that says high voltage,
and no one has said that to them on it.
They think that's something that's beyond their reach.
The reality is they've done it all of the time.
They're already one step, two steps ahead of people in the industry.
Well, yeah. And, but they don't have a degree.
They're much more, less likely to have a degree.
They haven't got prior industry experience.
They've never written about themselves in the first person.
So their first attempt of doing a CV is agonizingly awful.
And they use words like sniper and things like that, which, which in industry,
I've met lots of morale snipers.
Don't get me wrong.
But they use a different language.
So to help them navigate that is a bit of,
yes, you can try to change the person to make them a better fit for industry.
But I've looked at it the other way of to go,
how can you give industry the right tools so that it can actually
unpick which of these people are the ones that are really going to enhance your business
and, and which, which aren't the right fit and give them the right tools to be able to do that.
And then it's the best thing in the world about my job, which is easy,
because I just bask in the reflected glory of, of others.
How many beneficiaries have passed through the charity since?
So we've just levels of beneficiary.
Yeah.
So people that have gone on to have full-time employment and other people that have just
benefited from the, the boost of being part of what you.
So we, we've got those who are wounded, injured or sick.
So they've, they've been medically discharged from the forces,
leaving with some sort of issue.
More than 20,000 now have been through the doors of the charity,
which is mind blowing in 14 years at distinct individuals.
There's a larger audience of people when you go and include family members and
spouses and all of the rest of it who've, who've been involved too.
And then the work which is representing a more, a bigger community,
those who've served and their families, you know, not necessarily the ones who were broken,
is, is bigger than that again, but whether they've directly been through the charity or
whether they've benefited from things that the charity has put in place,
where they've never even heard about us, because I'm not that interested in empire building,
you know, to make a thing I'm interested in, in the outcome.
So Jaguar Land Rover changed quite profoundly around that first Invictus Games back in 2014
and started counting and actually, you know, using some metrics.
And we know then that, that more than 1,600 veterans have found new careers in Jaguar Land Rover
since the 1st of January, 2015, which is, is fantastic.
And then when you look at what Lotus have done and Morgan have done and then into the supply
chain and lots of other things, Stellantis doing great things, you know,
into, across those companies too, then it's, it's much more than that, which is, is lovely.
That's very impressive, isn't it? A lot of people with positive
It goes quite a long way from, you know, talking about on a track day, you know,
and doing skids in tanks, you then end up sort of, you know, doing some of those things.
But it's, but it's kind of been a logical extension of doing more of the things that
worked. And when something hasn't worked going, well, let's not do that again.
No, that was rubbish.
To the MOD, do they,
are they more engaged with what happens to their, you know, the people afterwards now
than they, than they used to be? Do you think there's a consequence?
Very much so. They, well, as a consequence of us, I don't, but they, they certainly are much more
than when I was leaving. And I think there was a narrative that we, I think we broke,
the IRA were responsible for us breaking our contemporary link with those who serve,
because we hid service from society for, for the best part of four decades,
for very good reasons of security. You'd change into civilian clothes before you went home,
most people who served in the military did it overseas in Germany and various other places.
And if somebody, you bumped into someone in a pub or at a trap day and they said,
what do you do? You would lie for, for security reasons. And so the chances of somebody knowing
a contemporary serviceman or woman was massively reduced. And so we think about,
you know, the war as being the second world war and the greatest generation, you know,
about those and you lose that contact in society with those who sort of come along afterwards.
Help for Heroes helped us find it to a degree with this amazing thing that
captured the zeitgeist that people just wanted to support, regardless of politics,
you know, they, they, they wanted to support the blokes and the girls, you know, independent of,
of politics, because you recognize they're doing a job so that we don't have to, you know,
and that, that was important. But that's very much focused on those who've had the most awful of
times, you know, have really been, been hurt by it. And we're really pushing a positive message
because you see these people who've gone on to do incredible things. The more we can help them to
be successful and independent and successful civilians, the better. And that's not really
a traditional service charity narrative, but it's one that we've, we've found a really happy
space with and where it's, it's kind of resonated with people and it's, and it's, it's made a
difference. But I think society is, is better. I think government is much better. I mean, I have
a thing called the office for veterans affairs and governments that sat in the cabinet office
underneath, you know, sort of Johnny Mercer's rising star and crash and star and crash and,
you know, Johnny's way of doing things, but gave us this thing called the office of veterans affairs.
And that's represented at the, yeah, yeah. And that that's now being subsumed into, into MOD.
But, but it does mean that sort of veterans have a voice in a way that they, they didn't in the
past and they're sort of, but they kind of recognize if we want the UK to succeed and we
want Britain to do well, they're a strategic national asset, you know, we've invested a fortune
in these people in blood, sweat and tears. If we allow them to be underemployed,
you know, or unemployed or worse under a bridge or a suicide statistic, then we are failing as a
society. So it's natural for us to want the best things for them because it means the best for
us as a country. Yeah. And they've gone on to do some, some of the roles that we've discussed
over the years that you've been really proud of putting them into amazing roles. Some of the
stuff that they're doing is sort of dream job for is joyous. And you sort of, you look everywhere.
So I had a, I had a call from a lad called Richie Storer on the way here. Richie's,
Richie's nuts. I mean, I hope he listens to this, Richie, if you, if you're watching, you are crazy.
Irish guardsman, medically discharged, post traumatic stress disorder had all sorts of
impacts on Richie in his life. But he was ringing me up because he's currently working for a
facilities management business, basically. And he said, I got pulled in. He's a brummy. I went
to attempt his ax on me. So I got, I got pulled in by, I got pulled in by my boss and I thought I
was in for a bollocking. And they're basically having a, they're expanding and his boss had
brought him in to say, we need more people like you. And for, you know, for somebody to be saying
that to Richie Storer is huge credit to that lad for just the distance that he's come. But also
the fact that he works, he properly grafts and he's a great bloke. And, and then it's, you know,
it's reflected, it's reflected back of them. So I was, you know, took a phone call on the way here,
joining him up with a thing called the career transition partnership, which is what we as
taxpayers have paid for to do resettlement provision for those who are leaving 15,000
people leaving the services every year. It's free to advertise your jobs to them. At the moment,
the government will give you a national insurance window over year for national insurance contributions.
And that's worth up to about £6,500. It's capped out. If you've hired somebody, it's their first
job out of service or their first 365 days of employment out of out of service. You won't pay
national insurance contributions for. So, but Bob's widgets of Peterborough or the facilities
management company doesn't necessarily know about that. So how can we, I use the platform that we
have, even the Evo podcast and be able to get that out to people to go, you know, consider these
people, you know, perhaps, perhaps think about giving them a chance and, and you asked about the
government and what do they do? Well, yeah, government is leaning in as well in order to try
and help to just level the playing field a little bit for these people who aren't as good on LinkedIn
as, as some of their peers who didn't work with them. I mean, they can't sell every opportunity
into a sale. Yeah, that reminds me. Yeah. Should we, should we have a break and then talk to Jim
about all these ridiculous, Annie is, I was thinking more, can we eat his biscuits first
and then we can talk about his ridiculous cars. Yeah, this sounds like a plus. Okay, we'll see
you in part two. Thank you very much. This episode is brought to you by Palm Olive. Family time isn't
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Welcome back to the Evo podcast. I'm with Henry, Dickie and special guest,
James Cameron in the second half. I get promoted. It means I'm in trouble normally.
Yeah, the full James. So if it was my mother, stick around for the third part, you'd be major for
God. Demoted again. Let's talk about you and your cars because if anyone's
followed you on social media, you've got quite an eclectic mix of stuff over the years that I've
seen some of it similar to your tanks with the engine in the back. Yes. But you've also some
very old stuff that's currently in a literal shed in your garden that you built the shed around the
car. Yeah, well, there was a bit I needed more space at home because I owned things but they were
but they weren't accessible, you know, so it's a bit of a pain in the back side to go and
I'm actually, we're Barksha and, sorry, against the Hampshire border. We can see the Hampshire
border from my house. And you have a car just currently conveniently parked at the Nuremberg
and I used to have a E30 3.5 litre so it's like the boat engine, the big 3.5 in this E30 which
lived out at the ring for some time and I wanted to be able to put more stuff at home and it
coincided with the shed came about. I'd asked my wife who's famously long suffering and sort of said
I need a shed. I'm a man. I don't have a shed. I should have a shed and she sort of went, yeah,
right, whatever. Was she imagining they're like talking to each other? Yeah, a little century
shed of gardens. Well, she got suspicious because I was a bit too happy about, you know, planning
for this shed and then she twigged that I sold a Maserati to pay for the shed and she was like,
whoa, hang on a minute, where's the shed going? I was like right in the back. Oh, because you had a
4200 GT? No, I had a 4200 GT. Yeah, so I wasn't quite that masochistic
that I had. Yes, I missed the rear lights but I did get the sort of Ferrari-ish B8 which was great
but that was sold really to pay to pay for the shed and Jude sort of went,
hang on, how big is the shed? And I said, what's the shed? It's six by nine and she went six by
nine. Me too. So if you're some local planning authority website, you'll see it.
Exactly. 500 miles to Brooke. And so yeah, well this, yeah, so she had gone to London for a few
days for her brother to go and do good, good auntie duties as her brother had had, I think
their first, second or third or fifth born or whatever it was and came back and there was an
enormous JCB in the back garden and this trench, the Somme Reenactment Society that we were,
we were building at one point but then a big concrete base and then this thing, it's called a
shed but it's a sort of a log cabin really but it's, yeah, six meters by nine meters so it's a
decent size and so that's been office man cave. There's obviously a beer fridge in it and at the
moment there's a 1976 Carrera, 9-11 Carrera race car, a Carrera three litre which is,
which is a really cool thing and a 1923 Dodge touring car which was really the result of me
attending an auction having had a couple of beers. But it's also that 90, it's the,
I never used to understand the pre-war stuff but I went and did,
through the charity, we took a lot of boys out to go and support Martin Ovington
racing at Classic Le Mans in a 1929 Blower Bentley and that was like the light bulb kind
of came on then actually because Martin would also then just take it on the road and go to the
pub in it at insane speeds and I sort of went oh I kind of get this, there's some real charm to it
so I bought the Dodge when it was 95 years old having this fanciful idea that when it turned
100 it was going to be worth more money. That didn't occur so that hasn't happened so the 9-11s,
so I've got a couple of 1970s, 9-11s and they in value I guess have done ridiculously well.
The Dodge has gone the other way and I broke the roof just to make it even worse but that's a great
thing and it's the best thing in the world for going to the pub in, it's hilarious. So it's a big,
for people who haven't seen it, it's a big, I'll get a bit of it for like five seater. Yeah and
it's got running boards so it's that sort of 1920s, Valentine's Day Massacre sort of Tommy Gung
kind of, it's one of those, it's exactly one of those but it's the Americans so like that
that wonderful Bentley Blower is actually quite intimidating to drive because the throttle's in
the middle and any one of you driven one of those things, whatever you do intuitively is wrong,
you know the thing you first try and do is the long thing. So that's perfect for tank commander.
You can't enjoy driving because the moment you enjoy yourself you completely forget and you
hit the wrong pedal. You forget yourself and something happens in front of you and you hit
the brake which turns out to accelerate you dramatically towards the seat of your car.
Just do the hammer and press all the pedals at the same time.
Something hands you a cheese sandwich and it's all the same.
But it was the Americans so Buick's and Dodgers from the early 20s did clutch brake accelerator,
they were the first ones to put them in the right order, H-pattern gearbox and the thing for this
particular Dodgers it's completely restored so it's basically it's like a new car with a broken
hood. All the oil leaks are standard. Yes so all of the oil leaks happen in the right place as
opposed to the wrong place but it's pretty mint but it's not on wooden spoked wheels, it's got disc
wheels which means that if you're like me and you want to park it up for six months and just ignore
it, you don't need to know a car trite to make the wheels. Yeah absolutely, you don't have to
lift it up over winter for the wheels not going oval. You just basically and particularly after
we put an electric fuel pump so with bad obsession motors what we dug it out after an extended hiatus
just to go to the pub in it and it took all day tinkering just to get to the pub which is a mile
down the road to be able to do it and that was great and really charming but yeah we put a
modern fuel pump on it so you literally get in it's electric start and it just goes boom 12
volts electrics and it just yeah and it's great I mean if you the fastest I've ever gone on it
according to GPS was 47 miles an hour and that felt like you're re-entering the earth's atmosphere
I mean that was terrifying and if you sort of sneeze or faintly look away and then back again
it's in a different place to where it was so it'll just cheerfully. There's no further down the road
it's just move left or right. Yeah yeah it just sort of veers off but it's I mean they're amazing
off-road because roads then didn't look like roads now they were literally car tracks. Yeah tracks
so they were better. So the articulation of it. Yeah it's not bothered by potholes and things
like that you just don't feel it and you're on this lovely sort of sprung sofa and Jude just
tweaked because she's always wanted a place to look like a bloody officer's mess in the house so
which she said there's just way of getting Chesterfields into the house without way.
So yeah we built the shed in in lockdown with my kids and so it was brilliant when there was all
of those regulations and it was you know you couldn't be in the house but you could be in the garden
and you're like well it is a shed we're in the garden so it's also if you lift the carpet itself
it's full of crisps and things like that where drunk people have been in it so that's pretty good
but yeah that and 9-11s I tend to get associated with that and inevitably Landrovers. What was your
first maybe not your first unless your first car was a sporty car what was your first like
proper? Well my first car was a car that I did sport in because it was a Series 3 Landrover
okay and I did all my first skids in Series 3 Landrovers because it was their rear wheel drive
until you plonked that yellow or thing down and then it would engage but I did trialing in it
because that was the only thing I could afford to do that was motorsport as a student but
the first really well I had quite a lot of fast stuff the first thing I sort of really
did motorsport in was an Integrale I guess. 8 valve 16 valve? It was it was an 8 valve but
with a 16 valve bonnet and the vertical spoiler on the back and white speed lines and that was
yeah I was mega love that thing and I was based at the time in Harrogate which is pretty much where
I'm from yeah and so with a girlfriend who lived up the Dales so it was just amazing you see you
know go and chase the bikers around there I had an XJS as well for a bit that I used to use for
similar purposes that was a bit more of a handful but yeah that's that's that's been a really good
thing and then just a sort of succession of Subaru's and 200SX's due to the S13 I had an S14
so it looked a bit like the owner's club it was always so that had to move on
and an RX-7 because I'm a because I'm a a masochist. I've forgotten about the RX-7.
Yeah there's a late whether FD or what are they called? Yeah yeah the beautiful shapes yeah
yeah the beautiful shapes RX-7 and that that was I was based in Suffolk and our house was in
just outside Harrogate and so economical then to that weekend commute but just how do you get
home on a Friday as fast as you can and the A14 A1 but it was it was yeah that was a car track
yeah not not a lot of fun or you go well hang on a minute you surely go a much more direct route
you know learn the names of places like Sleaford and you know go across the fence
and that RX-7 was extraordinary for doing that because you could you know you'd be stuck behind
um nor locals
or tractors yeah absolutely but you could you know you can pull that there's the
six mile or nine mile straight on that piece of road yeah yeah that's yeah exactly you look at
and you go I think I can overtake one or two and uh yeah you're still at you're still in the outside
landing counting at 20 odd but it's um get to the end check the oil oh yeah overtake them all again
so yeah I mean obviously I bought the finest one that I possibly could
and then had to rebuild it like within a month of buying the bloody thing so which
which bankrupted me so I'm still paying for that I think I'm still paying for the intergrally
um yeah there's been a variety of variety of stupid things like that where did your
love of cars come from is it from family father brothers yeah mom calls and stuff
mom and dad really and my grandfather always had I always remember them having big old Jags
which was great my dad was a um I think he he was um he worked for Barclays Bank um and uh
and so he he had the big Jags and that was on my mom's side on my dad's side his his father was a carpenter
um sorry Morgan's no I mean the um but my my dad was my dad was a rep so I remember
really clearly I remember every car that my dad had because it was such a big thing that they'd
have the list that they would then choose from and it was all of that classic you know Diavore
Sierra or a Cavalier you know all of that thing and so my dad's first sort of jelly mold but by
far my my best birthday that I've ever had was um when my dad turned up to come and pick well my
mom turned up to come and pick us all up and she borrowed her boss's car that was a Bentley
T2 they got a load of excitable schoolboys then all in this Bentley I think I'd have been at eight
or nine and then my dad turned up in um a white 1.6L Capri YOLT 208T and that having you know he's
coming out of a Cavalier into that and that was the coolest thing I'd ever seen and it was just
Lewis so it's like at some point this idiot will buy clearly a Capri I've had a Coke bottle
Cortina that I ran when I was based in Hollington um so one of those Mark III the you don't see
any of them anymore because they they weren't bangler racing or they all yeah you're right they
all went bangler racing you know and it that had a pinto in it and then it had a it had a v6 in it
and ended up with side exhausts underneath under the back doors because it was a three because it
was a four door obviously and it was orange with zero one on the side but with a black vinyl roof
did it play country and western yeah but I obviously I put Dixie horns in it as well
and um and we I turned up at a Snetterton track day and it had a tow bar on it and there were
loads of them there I would imagine I'd turned up at a at a Snetterton track day and it was
yeah circuit driver magazine and um Mark Hales who was attempting to be serious in the pit lane
and I was going past hitting and playing Dixie every time I was going past on the main street
I took my race cars I had a seven type thing but yeah the Cortina was more funny to shake a stick
and then it got the 2.9 24 valve V6 in it as well costs were yeah yeah it wouldn't stop
but it was yeah that was great so I love I love that thing it was so much
so there's a bit of me that really likes the Ford's and that sort of you know
if I was Australian it'd be Bogan but you know I'm yeah I do like that I do like that
and then Porsche's happened at some point so I got based in Germany and you spend time at the
Nürburgring and I used to uh help take groups of Brits out there yeah um and Ron Simons who's
a bit of a Nürburgring legend you used to run a thing called the I mean RSR now when you see
RSR and RSR it's super sleek isn't it now amazing organization it's fantastic but he used to be Ron
with one mechanic that's about 75 who every week would threaten to leave Ron
because he'd been yes treated appallingly or you know taken advantage of all the rest of it and
Ron would sort of win him round um yeah and a fleet of alpha 70 times it was the 75 experience
and so I used to go out and you'd find yourself instructing with and Ron would just give you
and you would do ducks and drakes during tourist fun so with people just literally following you
with radios sets with earpieces that didn't really work and and it and just if you give people
someone a radio and say use the radio at the same time well you were shouting go left
where you were facing backwards and I'm eating a cheese sandwich you know Ron's on a different
level of talking on two mobile phones at the same time whilst going around the outside of all of us
but you'd have five people and of course when the third person in the line like has a wobbly you
know dives out of the way of something ends up a bit on the grass and then the other two slowed
down even further then you're just and all of a sudden you've only got two people behind you
like what do you do do you slow down do you go faster or and it's the Nürburgring or it starts
raining halfway around you know and that's character building. It was so much quieter then
there wasn't I think people that probably go now can't imagine having the luxury of doing that
because it's just rammed. People taking their garden rubbish down you know because you've got a
yarrow's cart and it is the quickest way from the top to the bottom Nürburgring to up now
you're able to take the bottles back was a classic down to the railway in the bottom is you do that
and then you'd hop back on the ring and then come back up you know somebody with one of those little
traders on the back which is fine and the dog in the back of the car yeah sounds perfect yeah yeah
but you'd be overjoyed by the blue mini which was Akim you know yeah the plumber yeah by that mini
yeah yeah any of the not the plumber so yeah and that that sort of
it took me a while. Well we could cut that a bit out it's fine. That should stay in depth. Yeah yeah
so we yeah so I kind of I kind of got an appreciation for
I've never really liked Golfs but yeah okay and BMW is one of my first laps actually was in an E30
and that really sort of shaped my you know one of those and so when I bought a car that lived
out at the Nürburgring an E30 but the one with the most ridiculous engine that I could get into one
was was a great was a great idea I do love that car. Do you get on track much these days or are you
more up in the control tower or organising stuff because we've just all used it for the week did
your yeah the track night at Anglesey track night which it's a great idea he loves his track day he's
and loves being on track and bit different when you turn the lights out yeah it was it was fantastic
and then it the turn the lights out and it was dark and then it was like really I've driven around
Anglesey quite a few times and then started driving somewhere completely different it's not who comes
up with this again you and your team go how can we do something slightly different have you make
it harder for people yeah exactly yeah no how can we make it as challenging as you can so do you get
to enjoy those do you get more enjoyment now pushing those on and seeing people sort of
taking advantage of of the opportunity well do you sort of have that hacker and I wish I was
out there doing stuff well I mean I've sort of gone through so that very first race of remembrance
I was racing you know and the Graham Fudge lent us a car to go and do it so we had a
Mazda Works race car but it was the Jota car yeah the Jota built ones which we've still got
one of those cars has done an every single race of remembrance it's done four 24 hour races
done a bunch of 12 other 12 hour races and stuff it's done you know various other things and it's
amazing it's still we bullscaped it the other day to go and have a bit of a look and it it
compression tested better than it's supposed to as it was new and you look inside it and it's
absolutely perfect and this thing has been given death by idiots for every single mile it's ever
it's ever well yeah journalists have raced it yeah totally totally both the Frank Kitties racetracks
yeah the Frank Kitties yeah both yeah both Frank Kitties have been in it it's had a it's even had
a Chris Harris who famously loves his MX-5 so we'd put him yeah he's a big fan of those isn't he
yeah no he is yeah so we've done those but I mean answer to your question the the sort of
Nurburgring stuff for example it it is such a privilege to be able to share your love and
your insight with other people and to be able to share that with people who you give stuff about
is is wonderful but it does mean that as sort of the charity's got bigger we've now got you know
where I was the instructor I now you know sits on committees in motorsport UK helping disabled
and accessible motorsport become more available to people in the UK it takes you further away from
the grassroots of being in the car so I do still absolutely love that and I've sort of gradually
found myself doing less and less of it because there's people now who do that for us who we've
sort of grown up through those programs so there's a tiny bit of me sort of wanting to get my
hobby back in a way to be able to to be able to do some of that and so this year I'm going to go
and do a little bit of racing I think which would be which would be quite nice because after 14 years
of being out front and running the charity I'm taking a step back from the sort of day-to-day
operations of of of Mission Motorsport and sort of I'll never be too far away from it and I'm
going to formally continue to work for the charity but as founder helping it to yeah we've got some
big stuff next year like the Invictus Games coming back to the UK which is really exciting you know
that's that's in in July 27 and where's that going to be so the NEC in Birmingham so you know
but Commonwealth Games and stuff has demonstrated it's actually it's a brilliant and really
sustainable venue because you've got airport and motorway and and rail all in one place and
accommodation and the evening stuff you don't need to bust people around for miles so yeah
that hasn't been back no since 2014 yeah the original in 2014 so it's done Canada twice I think
the US twice it's on Australia the Netherlands it was in the Hague and Düsseldorf and I've
so I was obviously I was really involved in that first one that was run and then I've I've sort of
been peripherally involved in some of the others but it was Düsseldorf I went back out to and it
was really from my time in Germany and when I was a student I had one summer out there trying to
do an off-eaters impact with a Geordie mate in in Düsseldorf so I kind of know the city quite
well and I was really interested particularly after sort of you know Prince Harry's you know the
book spare and all of that sort of stuff and how that's received in the press and I wanted to go
and see how Invictus felt and particularly somewhere like Germany where military service for years has
been not something that's been looked at as a as a desirable career or because of some
unfortunate 1940s history I'm not really sure what they're on about but and went to kind of just
spectate I was there for the opening ceremony and it they'd really thrown themselves into it and
Düsseldorf's got this amazing their sporting facilities are just unbelievable in this massive
arena and you're watching the the the atmosphere grow as the teams are all paraded in and they're
sort of sitting in the floor of the place in this huge auditorium of sport amazing production
qualities and everyone's kind of waiting for Prince Harry to come out and do his piece and Harry
came out and did his speech it was brilliant it was really good and then the bloke came out from
the main sponsors and you sort of go you know right this is this is good and he says his piece
and then the German Defense Minister Boris Bisturus I mean you're like oh here we go so
Boris Bisturus comes out and helpfully spoke excellent English but his opening paragraph
of his speech he actually talked about Ukraine and what he wasn't expecting was the applause
that interrupted him going on into the second standard of his speech and he was on
auto queue and he lost his place and he realized he had to wait and he held on to his podium which
was glass and looked down at through this glass podium and there in front of him was team Ukraine
oh wow those that could were standing and were giving him standing ovation and you saw this bloke
grip his podium and you know lump in the throat and have a moment but we're all watching him
blown up 80 feet high on this huge screen behind you know as they're focusing on his
face and you see this guy have a moment and then he gets a really big standing ovation the whole
place was on their feet didn't sit down for 10 minutes and you think wow man this is amazing
and the reason why I remember the name of a random German politician is yeah okay so
Oscar Bisturus shot his girlfriend didn't he threw these so I remember the surname
but Boris Bisturus when you watch him now he he has been instrumental in determining Germany's
support and making the argument against the Greens in German parliament for support to Ukraine
he's been instrumental in an awful lot of that stuff and you think that's made a mark on his
soul he will remember that moment until his dying day as will a lot of other people who were in that
who were in that room it was extraordinary and that power of Invictus is absolutely not undimmed
by you know salacious gossip or royal this that and the others or we don't you know don't give too
much of stuff it's still very much as has a power which can transcend all of that sort of stuff and
so next summer that that's a piece of work for us and the theme of the games is enabling communities
to thrive and as we've been talking about these unforces communities in society how can we uplift
and promote that there's a job of work there for us to do that that I'll be proud to lean into
nice that's exciting sounds great you mentioned Ukraine in the break you showed us something
don't worry he's automotive related yeah um you're off there in a couple is it couple of weeks
a couple of days yeah so next month I'm yeah tail end of tail end of April I'm going out there
actually with a mission motorsport beneficiary we've we've done quite a bit with the Ukrainian
recovery programs who they've been keen to learn about how are we helping literally stand people
up again and and get them going I've just actually come back from the outside raising money for for
a program that's all about amputee care that's been taken forward a huge amount but there's
an organization called driving Ukraine they are one of many that are doing similar things but
a particularly inspirational young man runs that an extraordinary thing they're more than 300
vehicles they've bought here in the UK and then deployed them out to Ukraine where they're used
as casualty recovery vehicles so these are the things that are just behind the front line
that are taking casualties off those front line medics and helping them get back to
proper medical care this is life-saving stuff and so raising a bit of money to buy a Toyota
Hilux and the the biggest fan of Toyota Hilux is that I've ever met in my life as a guy called
Jack Taylor who's a former REF engineer he's also incredibly artistic he's the one who makes those
wonderful trophies and he does remember trophies yeah which is joyous and jack's amazing and so
with the permission of his doctor his psychologist but most importantly his mum we're raising a bit
of money and we'll be part of one of these convoys that's going out to Ukraine but it's also an
opportunity to visit the superhumans program which is out there in Ukraine that's all about
personal recovery of going how can they use sport community things like that in order to be able
to help people whose lives have been impacted and so are you driving out there yeah my my sabbatical
yeah I'm I'm going to Ukraine you know so you know my wife's just like yeah just whatever go
and have a lovely time but yeah we're driving out there but part of Jack's job is obviously because
it's a Toyota so it's not going to break but the command vehicle that we're taking out is
is quite special it's a 1963 Rolls Royce Silver Cloud
there's done an awful lot of historic rallying and things like that amazingly
and that beautiful old roller's going out there as well so we will go out and back so Jack's going
out in a in a highlights and then he doesn't know it yet but he'll be going he'll be coming back in
the in the silver in the silver cloud so where where is your ultimate destination in in Ukraine
I can't tell you mate you know that's it but it's a need to know yeah no it is it's a little bit
basically so we're not we're not going out there to go and try and nudge the front lines the last
thing that is a fat end of the grey head tank in a Rolls Royce Silver Cloud there's one of those
there's one of those drones coming out
I think for I know Ukraine is is a vast country but it seems because it it sits in the
forefront of a lot of our minds as a place that's in the midst of a horrendous war but it seems
quite strange to think oh well we're we're driving to Ukraine so I guess where where all the bad
stuff is happening is is that quite localized or is that on one side of the country in Ukraine
so definitely well I mean of course the that sort of Russian front line is across the south so
sort of bisects the the coastline and then across the top of Crimea and the the eastern side of the
country but the Russians you know hitting things in in depth and and they're not targeting military
stuff you know they're they're targeting civilian stuff so
but it's I mean it's safe and it is it you know I I obviously had a couple of these conversations
at home actually I didn't really because you just went whatever you covered anyway you're gonna do
it you know which which is fine but yeah no it is it is the viv so very much the the western side
of the country towards the towards the Polish border in order to hand things over but the turn
around of these things then being used so so they're then sent yeah and wherever then so there was
a convoy that went out last week and within three days of that convoy dropping off a vehicle one
of those vehicles was used in a genuine casualty extraction in the uh in the east of the country
so these things properly get used do they have a list of the I don't know they probably want
anything they can get their hands on but is there a yeah they're they're absolutely yes and they're
securing uh and they are sort of they've got people out there hunting down vehicles for them
all the time L 300s were a real sort of favoured but if you try and buy an L 300 in the UK now
the prices of you know it's very difficult to find one of that vintage and it's because a lot of
these have gone have gone out to Ukraine so I guess any any kind of four by flucker shogun or
isuzu or whatever and the highlight yeah highlights is stuff like that yeah absolutely you know
are perfect for that kind of thing I'm more parochialy in for the Cameron family fleet
my the dodge I was supposed to have sold that at a profit and then I wanted a ferret
which is a ferret scapegoat yeah well I commanded the last ever ferret in British army service
onto the back of the low loader that was taking it away to get shot at as a tank tug in otterberg
very offended you know with it yeah I love that ferret so I always wanted I always really wanted
a ferret because you you came and I've got the perfect spot for it at home it wouldn't go in the
shed I've got a armored hide that's going to be right right gap between some trees that I could
just slot it into with a thing do you think that's going to be some sort of garden water
feature you could emerge like out of the back cave in my ferret yeah it's just brilliant
Brian the dog I'd be so happy Brian would love that but yeah but prices of ferrets have gone
which is crazy but but it's because yeah armored stuff is finding its way out to Ukraine because
it's really easy to sit here you know and drink tea and look out of the window and think isn't
life peaceful and all of the rest of it but on the eastern border you know it's can't imagine
it is it is mind-numbing and because we've become numb to it because of the scale and pace of the
new cycle and the lunacy of of you know what the Trump government is is giving us just in terms
of a new challenge every day of oh it's Cuba now you know all Greenland or you know that you just
get lost in this incredible yeah he's barely on the news agenda anymore is it it's just a thing
that's happening in the background totally but it's it's very real for people who you know who
were a big part of the automotive industry yes you know in all of that side so that knock on into
automotive you know of of of a place that's you know at the center at the heart of European
manufacturing you know is well it's those skills that have actually have enabled them to survive
in no small part you know they the pace of their change and their other initiative with developing
turn it to drone stuff as well and there's a bit of that that we're starting to think about in
this country too so one of the other pieces of work we've been doing is helping automotive
industry companies to understand and access defense market stuff how can they make themselves
ready to be able to take on whether it's Ministry of Defense or other supporting things
to be able to use British ingenuity or all the rest of it to be able to satisfy
because we're in a changing world yeah we did that well the industry did it in the pandemic
didn't it turn slightly far and with yeah and wonderful examples you know RML and you know
companies like that that well that skill set in those yeah Williams yeah absolutely fast isn't it
but and and it comes from so why do those companies exist why do we have a motorsport
triangle that is where it is that this is all left over from the Second World War you know and the
where Beaverbrook you know took British industry and you know turned it into well let's make
Spitfires and Hurricanes at an extraordinary pace and of course you're making Spitfires and
Hurricanes in places like Castle Bromwich in places like that's turning out bent these days you know
as a million engines were built yeah it is part of our it is part of our national heritage and
character that we've we have the ability to do that kind of thing and the contemporary contextual
version of that it's really easy to change the channels and forget about it but yeah it's something
that is a is a grim reality if if we're to continue to enjoy the freedom that we've
we've bashed in for the for the last decade yeah it comes at a price doesn't it yeah yeah it really
does so me deploying a Hilux isn't a isn't a huge step in the right direction but I'm I'm
grateful for the opportunity to to get to go and do something and how much money do you need to raise
so the amazing thing is that that Driving Ukraine are such a professional organisation
that for £7,000 that covers the the purchase of a vehicle they get these things get serviced they
get the right tyres put on them they all end up the same sort of uniform colour of sort of dodgy green
or you know yeah paint sample absolutely yeah paint paint a sample pete inspect you know absolutely
and and then that also covers the the cost of getting the thing out there in order to be able
to do it so I'm raising yeah £7,000 but the money that gets raised over and above that
they then plough into the next generation of vehicles that are getting sourced but also things
like drone countermeasures as well too so the better they can send these things across to be
be equipped to to be useful saves Ukrainians money on the other side and just sort of helps them in
and it's a lovely way for something that is entirely you know defensive is entirely altruistic
is entirely about you know helping people out where there have been casualties to be able
to help people to survive it's a really meaningful way in which people can lean in and and make a
difference and I'd encourage them to do that that overlap with that lovely mission motorsport thing
as well is there are lots of veterans who are involved in doing this as well as working out
there in in Ukraine as well helping to refit some of these vehicles is there a website or
anywhere people can look yeah so if you go go and have a look at driving Ukraine if you just
all one word google will help get you there into the right place you'll find some incredibly
compelling stuff and we'll hope to try and tell the story a little bit as well of us going out
there with a silver cloud that I don't want to be anywhere near the front line with I don't know
it's probably pretty strong yeah I know exactly yeah what could possibly go wrong so well
okay well I I have a Rolls Royce Armour Carter story that I will tell you at some point but
it's probably going to be over a pint and away from this how can people get involved in mission
motorsport how can they support it and then we will let you go back to thank you getting ready for
your adventure so mission motorsports the forces motorsport charities on mission motorsport.org
you can find it on all of the obvious social sites and things like that mission motor SPT
I think it's shortened to on Twitter and on Instagram obviously donations and people who go
and race funds for us is the lifeblood of charity and without that nothing works but for remembrance
weekend race of remembrance is not just a race that happens in Anglesey it is how British motorsports
and their motor industry marks remembrance weekend and encouraging people to support the Poppy
Appeal to take that moment to stop and take a pause over remembrance and to do something to
support the forces motorsport charity is the way in which we can bring things together um one of
the pieces of work that we were talking about it has been in clean energy is to you know try and
help those who've served in the forces to find find their way into great jobs afterwards
and as such I was in the the national uh energy systems operator main control room which is the
big place that controls the flow of electricity across the UK so it's really cool so where they
turn on the nuclear power stations and often the flow underneath and over production and all of the
rest of it it's amazing but it's also the place that would generate that fascinating statistic
every year that you know the peak power usage in x year was normally at the end of the bond film
Christmas do you remember we all sat down to watch it at the same time and everybody
had such a British thing as well you know there's that peak from everyone goes to the
loo flushes the toilet some pumps run but they make a cup of tea and they turn kettles on
but they're streaming these days so they no longer see that you know bond film moment at Christmas
in the same way um they see the peaks for things like the six nations they see strictly final
but in 2025
were you were you not watching I shoot them on the six nations in England it's quite a lot of half
got half time and oh my god yeah anyway but in 2025 the peak power usage in the UK was on a Tuesday
day completely any guesses it was at 1104 on the 11th of November oh really and that talks
about national character that's not me veterans and remembrance types sort of doing that that's
about that's about national that's after the size after the after the silence 11th of the 11th was
the time when most people in the UK simultaneously use the most power wow wow that's extraordinary
yeah that is extraordinary great way to end as well I think thank you Henry Dickie and Jim thank you
so much for giving us your time yeah thanks Jim best of all to Ukraine thank you and coming back
again hopefully so well most of the car comes back yeah that's important yes um thank you everyone um
we will see you next time
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About this episode
James Cameron—aka “tank slider”—shares his army background, the forces motorsport charity Mission Motorsport, and the wild mechanics of tank “skids” and commander life. He explains how Challenger tanks coordinate gun, turret, and crew roles, plus the absurdities of tank warfare comms and even a “nonstick tank” concept. The conversation then pivots to Race of Remembrance at Anglesey, how the charity uses motorsport for recovery and careers, and his upcoming Ukraine trip with Driving Ukraine. Expect equal parts technical tank talk, motorsport stories, and real-world impact.
Original notes
This week we're joined by James Cameron, founder of Mission Motorsport, to discuss the origins of his charity, why he's taking a Rolls-Royce to Ukraine and precisely why he's known as 'tank slider'...
Support Jim's cause:
https://donorbox.org/jamesandjack
https://www.missionmotorsport.org/
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