AAH #672 - Car Critics Rip and Applaud This Year's New Cars

I'll online. After Hours is brought to you by Bridge Doone Tires Solutions for

Your Journey and by Borg Warner. Gary John, how are you I'm doing

Okay, I'm fighting a sourced road and a cough. But I'm going to

get through the show. Okay, this show must go on. Indeed it

must, so we're not going to talk about this on the show. But

but I want to get your reaction to the workers at General Motors ratifying the UAW contract fifty, which means forty five percent voted against it. What do

you think? Yeah, well, you know I read recently that former GM

negotiator once said that, you know, close contracts are actually a sign of a good contract. It shows that neither side one big. But in this

case, I'm not sure that datap. I mean, some GM locals approved

by mega approval rates like ninety some rejected the contract, and I think there was a high level of rejection because UAW President Sean Fayne really raised worker expectations.

Remember, he started out demanding a forty six percent raise, He wanted to return to full pensions. He wanted only a thirty two hour workweek,

and a lot of people bought into that. And I think they felt that

Sean didn't fight hard enough and they voted against it. But you know,

at this point, there's still some locals yet to vote, but it looks like it's going to pass. We'll still see what happens at stillantis Ford has

pretty much already approved it, although there's still a few locals to vote, but not enough to overturn the whole thing. So hopefully this is all over

and done with and the Detroit three can get back to just building cars again.

Absolutely so, speaking of cars, dot dot dot, that's right, we got a big car show today. So as as many of you may

know or may not know, the North American Car Truck and Year Car Truck Utility the Gary Witzenberg, former president of Necktoy, correct me on this Car Truck and Utility Vehicle of the Year. Okay, So at the LA Show.

At the LA Show this morning, the finalists were announced and so we have assembled a panel here. Full disclosure, all of us are members of

Necktoy. All of us voted in our votes contributed to this list. We

may not have voted for these particular vehicles because there are three in each category and there were far more than three on the list. So in addition to

our friend Gary Witzenberg who has been on the show before, Joann Muller of Axios again, a veteran of After Hours, and a brand new person that we're bringing to the show today, Jody Lai, who is the editor in chief of Auto Trader. And Jody comes to us from Canada, of all

places, So welcome Jody. Thank you for having me. Yeah, Jody,

thanks for the international flayer on the show. I'll try to limit my

canadianisms. Sometimes they're really obvious. I'll go, yeah, soul, that's

right, hockey references things like that. So okay, so let's let's start

in order. So the Car of the Year candidates that we last month had

the opportunity to test drive included things like the Corvette E Ray, the Ford Mustang, the Accord, the Ionic six, the Superman Supergoomp Pressent wasn't there, the Toyota Crown, Toyota gr Corolla, and Toyota Prius and Prius Prime.

And for those of you who are watching this and not listening to the podcast, the finalists in the car category were the Hyundai Ionic six, an electric vehicle, the ever popular Toyot Honda Court. Sorry, and and finally

the Toyota Prius and Prius Plant Prime. So Joanne, let's start with you,

and let's start with your impressions of the Ionic six. Well, this

was not one of my favorites. To be honest, I certainly love all

the evs that Hyundai and Kia have been doing. To me the Ionic six,

it was the styling more than anything they turned me off. I just

think it looks like it's melting, especially in the rear end there. Yeah,

so much. Yeah, and and so I I actually voted to include

the Corvette E Ray. I'm all right, Joanne, you go, and

I am not a fan afficionado anything, but you drive that car and it's like, it doesn't feel like you're driving a Corvette in the sense that it's really solid and grounded and super fast and fun of course. And so I

loved that. I really did. So you know, I'm I'm pleased that

Ionic six is there, but not necessarily my first, second, or third choice. Yeah, I'm with you on the E Ray. I was blown

away by that car. It is so well done. First all wheel drive

Corvette, it's a hybrid, it is so well integrated. I'm with you

all the way on that, even though in you know, in that to way, we like to get all new cars, not just something that's been out there that's been upgraded, which is kind of what the E ray represents.

But yeah, I'm with you all the way on that car. Well,

I wonder if it didn't make the final because you know, it's it's not a car for everyone. We're you know, among the different values that

were supposed to or the attributes that were supposed to consider its value for the money, and you know, this is a specialty car. And I wonder

because every journalist I talked to who drove that car loved it. So why

it was that in the final three, I don't know. Oh see,

So Garrett, Gary, what year was it that the Corvette won the CEE eight you're asking, which Gary, Well, I'm not asking me, so I don't remember exactly, but it was it was the first year it was out. It was twenty eighteen, is that right? Eighteen or nineteen C

eight came out, And I would only comment on that that maybe, you know, I am of the opinion that the North American Car of the Year should not be a six figure, low production specialty car. It ought to

be something more attained, affordable, higher volume. I loved it as everyone

else did. I love the C eight in general, but that is a

very special C eight. But is it the North American car of the year.

Probably for price and volume reasons, I would say not so. All

right, So let's bring Jenny, let's bring this back to the I X six. What is your impression of that vehicle. I actually really liked it.

I agree with Joanne. I'm not a huge fan of the styling,

but I do one hundred percent understand why it has to look like that.

And I got to give Hyundai credit for taking a big swing with that design because they know it's not going to be for everybody. But that's really not

the purpose. The purpose is just extremely efficient aerodynamics, and I think it

nailed it at that. It was it was great to drive. I think

I thought it was very user friendly. Would I drive around in it and

feel weird a little bit, But I think it made a really big swing, and I think a lot of our jurors like rewarded it for that reason.

Well. One of the things that I think that's interesting about it is

is that you know, according to Hyundai, one of their competitors is the Model three, and so while it doesn't look enormous, it's it's actually in many respects bigger than the Model three. So, for example, in terms

of length, the Model three is eighty eighty four point eight inches long.

The IX six is one hundred and ninety one point one inches long. An

important thing is interior volume. The IX six is one hundred and three cubic

feet. The Model three is ninety seven cubic feet. But for those who

are big fans of funks, the Model three just annihilates the IX six because the IX six frunk is only point five cubic feet and the Tesla is three point one cubic feet. And I guess we should talk a little bit about

it being an e V. How significant is that? Or are EV's now

just into their power train choice? Anybody? Anybody? I mean, I

think it says a lot that, what five out of the nine of our finalists we're EV's, And I think last year it might have even been more EV's last year to make the finalist cut. I think we're It's a really

cool time to be part of the industry because that shift is happening in such an obvious and big way, and I feel like next year it's going to be even more than even more EV finalists than we have today, and that's really exciting. Well, that's where the innovation is coming in the industry,

I feel like, you know, and that's one of the things we reward is innovation, and you know, EV's are just that they have the best technology. So I agree. I think we're going to see more and more

of these as our finalists and winners. I think last year, I was

hoping last year was going to be the year all three winners were EV's, but I think now I'm trying to remember last year's winners, but one of them was not, right, Yeah, that Accurate Integra was one. Ah

yeah, right, I am one who kind of I really kind of liked the Ionic six. I don't love the stelling, but I like it.

It doesn't offend me, and it is a very effective and efficient electric vehicle.

It's the standard version is two hundred and forty miles EPA range and you can get up to three sixty plus and it's quick and it's fun to drive.

And if you don't like the look of it, you can get an Ionic five, which is pretty much the same thing in a different shape.

And to answer Joanne's question, so last year it was two out of three were electric vehicles. It was the Ford Lightning one as as did the Kia

EV six. The outlier is the one that Gary mentioned, the Accurate Integra,

which has a Ghastley engine. But you know, Jody, I think

you're going to be right going forward. Because automakers are putting all their eggs

in the EV basket, right, We're probably not going to see a lot of all new pure ice vehicles going forward. So I think I think you're

right. We're going to see more evs on the list. Yeah, And

I think it's important to note that there's a lot more coming that are going to be more affordable, you know, with like the Chevrolet Blazer and the Equinox EV, a lot more family friendly choices. You know, there's a

new one coming from Hyundai that might be ready for next year's voting, just with more body styles and for more budgets. I think it's going to be

a huge year next year for EV's all right. So not to be rude

to my new guest, but I got to say I'm not holding my breath on that. I oh, no, I think I think that we're going

to see an ever increase in prices, and so affordability will be sort of a relatively loosey goosey term. I think what I meant by that is that

they're going to be more EV's that are priced competitively with their ice counterpart, and the Delta won't be as big as it is now. Fair enough,

So let's go to the Prius and the Prius Prime. Now, I think

this is an example of an electrified vehicle, A couple that, I mean are sensational. I think that Toyota, which has been struggling in the last

few years with the Prius, just completely knocked it out of the park with these two vehicles. John, what's your impression, Yeah, gorgeous car.

Holy crap. They should have done an electric version, too, pure electric.

Then they would have got all the critics off their back. I've driven

the car, love it, Love the Prime, the plug and aspect of it. Two things I don't like about the car though. Toyota's got the

instrument cluster behind the steering wheel set in a way that for me, at least, I have to try to put the seat up as high as possible and the steering wheel down as low as possible to be able to see it.

It's a car that really needs a yoke, you know that takes off the top part of the steering wheel. This picture doesn't really show it,

but it's it's weird to me that Toyota would have gotten something so basic in the patch packaging so wrong. The other thing, this car is a tight

fit. I'm not a big guy, so I don't have a problem with

it. But during the media launch, I was with one of our colleagues

who was a large man, and he could barely fit in the passenger seat or the driver's seat. No way could have he gotten into the back seat.

So Toyota's clearly traded off interior room to get more efficiency, you know later lower smaller frontal area for aerodynamic reasons and the like. So I would

recommend this car for anybody who's under six feet tall and under two hundred pounds.

Anybody else, forget about it. So I have to tell you I

drove the Prius, the hybrid, not the Prime, not the plug in hybrid. First, I was in North Carolina, in Charlotte, and I'm

driving through downtown Charlotte and this car is weaving around and trying to get up close and pulls up next to me at a traffic light, honks a horn, makes me roll down the window to talk to him. He's driving a

Tesla, and he was so impressed with this car. He was like,

oh my god, that's beautiful. I can't believe it's a Prius. And

you know, it was funny. It was just such a funny moment.

Then I drove it off into the mountains of western North Carolina, and there were times when I was getting sixty four sixty five miles per gallon on that thing, and I was like, very impressed. Everything that John just said,

though, is very true. I even at five foot one, I

found like certain parts about the visibility inside the car really difficult. Now,

I did fit five women inside the car, one of whom was close to six feet tall, but three women across the back seat and no problem.

I wouldn't want to put any luggage in there, though it's not very big in the rear. Let me weigh in on this one. I have not

personally liked any vehicle named Prius since the brand was invented. I didn't like

the way they looked. I didn't like the way they drove. They were

slow, they didn't handle. I didn't like interiors or instrumentation. I didn't

like anything about them other than field economy. That was the only redeeming social

value. I thought. This one has turned me around completely. I love

this vehicle. I love the way it looks, I love the way it

drives. I got in a week with it at home. I got over

fifty five miles per gallon. And what really, I'm talking the prime now.

What really impressed me was that I got forty miles on electric only before the engine even started. And that was impressive. Before I burned any gas

at all, it would go forty miles. So, Garry, if I

didn't have to be on camera, I would fall out of my chair based on what you just said. What did I like this one? Yeah?

Yeah, you think about that for a minute, though, Like you could go forty miles without ever using gasoline. I mean for most of us,

that would be never right, I mean a lot of us. That's one

of the things I like about plug in hybrids is you can just run on electricity all the time and you don't really need to worry about gasoline except for those road trips. So, Joyanne, how come people don't buy them that

much? Or do you think that's going to change? Well, you know,

it's interesting because you know, obviously this is something Toyota's been talking about for a long time, and now you know FOURD to saying oh maybe we should have more hybrids and plug in hybrids. I it still is a bridge

technology, but I think we need to respect the consumer. They are not

ready, most of them are not ready, the mainstream consumers to go full electric. It's just obvious, you know, we're we're They need more comfort,

they need to know the charging infrastructures there, they need the prices to come down. So I personally think it is a good bridge technology and I

think there will be more purchases because the all in on ebs has it certainly has not stalled. They're still growing. Evs are still growing, but the

but the rate is the rate is slower of slowing a little bit, and it's becoming a lot harder to cross that divide to get the mainstream consumer.

The early adopters all bought them. Now it's getting you know, the soccer

mom to buy one, and she's not there yet. Jody, did you

drive the appreciation I did. I actually drove it to our drive event from

Toronto to ann Arbor, so I put over one thousand kilometers on it.

I managed to get five liters per one hundred kilometers, which is about forty seven mpg without even trying. And so that's why I really liked the Prius

is because it made it so simple for an average person to unlock incredible efficiency.

And now because it doesn't look dorky, I think a lot more people will get really into it because before the Prius it was good, but it was really dorky, and I think that held a lot of people back.

I think, being very kind to Meybe, that little nubby Shifter remembered it was just, oh yeah, it was horrible. The front end styling always

reminded it looked like a car that just bit into a lemon. Yeah,

like a pucker face. Right, But it's great now. I highly recommend

it. The efficiency is amazing. The only issue that I saw with it

is that the model that I was driving, the fit and finish was a little bit off, so there were a couple of panels and stuff that wore a little bit wiggy. But other than yeah, it's really unusual, especially

because the you know mine, it was a press unit, so it didn't have a crazy amount of mileage on it. But there were a lot of

loose panels, a lot of a lot of wiggly wiggly panels going on.

But other than that, was really impressive, all right. So the fat

last vehicle in the category is the Honda Accord Sedan, which which comes in various and sundry flavors. I just drove the Accord hybrid, speaking of hybrids,

and without even trying, without paying any attention to the thing, I was getting more than forty miles per gallon in you know, a mid size sedan in a large sedan with with what I think is gorgeous styling. You

know this, this sort of strikes me as as the cars we used to have brought up to date, and it's it's sort of sad that there aren't more of them. Any other impressions. Terrific car, I mean, I

was so impressed by this. You know, the Accord has been a benchmark

in its category forever, right, I mean forever, which is really saying so thing, and here they come out with a new one that somehow or other is even better still, and so I was super impressed, you know, for them to have a high volume car relatively affordable, and you know, to your point with the hybrid, Gary, I'm not a big fan of hybrids. I generally do not like the way they drive. But I

think for the general everyday motorists, they won't even notice that it's a hybrid except for the fuel economy number. You know before before when for a second,

Gary, John, you mentioned price and this, this is really surprising to me that the Accord Okay base msrp okay is twenty five dollars. Yeah,

that's crazy. That's a crazy number these days, crazy good. The

least expensive vehicle on the list the hybrids. I'm looking at a couple monroners

here at thirty five to thirty nine for a different versions of the hybrid.

Let me just add that I was fortunate to be on the launch program for this a while ago, and I got extensive time in the hybrid. I've

driven the regular one too, I mean, the regular non hybrid. But

I was so impressed with it that John, what you were saying, it's disguises its hybridness. You just don't know this. It drives like any normal

vehicle and you don't even realize there's a hybrid powertrain working underneath you as you're driving whatever wherever you are. Yeah, Joanne Jony, I loved it.

I think the only thing holding it back is that it's not available with all wheel drive, which, like I'm from Canada, everybody here wants an all wheel drive vehicle. And because the new Cameri and the current camera has all

wheel drive, I always thought it had a little bit of a leg up because of that. But love the new Accord. It drives great, even

the hybrid one feels more sportier than almost any other hybrid that I've driven in its cloud us really well done. Love new styling too. Yeah, and

the Accord, as you noted, John, always rock solid. You know,

you can never go wrong with it, and it is a beautiful car.

I you know, whether it wins or not, I predicted will do very well in the market because of the fact that there aren't that many Sedans anymore that you can buy. You know, the American companies have gotten out

of the business of sedan's and so you know they they they're just very well positioned to do great with that car. I really liked it too, So

Jody, get some snow tires. They're terrific. That's what I've always said.

I said, all wheel drive is overrated. As long as you have

good snow tires, you're good to go. That's right. Most Tyler Canadian

consumers really like that extra surefootedness. Yeah. No, I've always said,

if I had a choice between snow tires and all will drive in the winter, I'll go with snow tires every time on both. I mean, but

I said if you had to choose one or together. So just for those

scoring at home, this is the eleventh generation of the Accord and they've been billing it in Marysville, Ohio since nineteen eighty two, so very stalwarts and not exactly forever, John, but close close. Hey, look, we're

going to get into the utility category next, right, Gary, we could.

Well. The only reason I'm saying is why don't we take our commercial

break right now and then we don't have to interrupt? So what do you

think? Okay, good plan, let's do it. How do you bridge?

Don't tire stop shorter on what roads? Is their hydro track technology?

But you don't have to know how the science works, just where the brain is what really matters is they're bridged out. All Right, we're back talking

NACTOY finalists and what we love to hate it. Okay, So John,

I think that what we're going to do here is we're not going to go to utilities. We're gonna go to truck because when Gary Witzenberg was the president

of NACTOY, he made it very specific that we had to put these things in a certain order. Okay. In addition to which there were four Truck

of the Year candidates and there were eight Utility of the Year candidates, and so I think there will be a little more lively on the utilities parts, so we'll be able to get through the trucks fairly rapidly. So one of

the finalists is the Chevrolet Colorado, and Gary Witzenberg, I want you to start on this because you and I talked during the death drive about this vehicle and I fell out of my chair there. Really, I hope you didn't

hurt yourself. I am. Let me say this. I think the Colorado

looks good. It drives well. The one I had for a week drives

very well. But I was really disappointed in what I consider I'll use the

word pathetic feature content for mine was a forty one trail Boss four wheel drive crew cab, and I couldn't believe when you walk up to a vehicle nowadays, especially press vehicles, we get to tend to be you know, high trend levels. You can open the door without a key. I was this

one doesn't have that, you can. I was surprised that the endvisor would

not extend to protect the side of my face from the sun. I hate,

I hate. I can't believe anybody misses that these days, and how

much do they save? Because then the GMC Canyon that I drove, of

course, did have an extending sun visor, but the forty one thousand dollars Colorado didn't. And I made a whole list and I don't have that in

front of me, but there were. The content level was really pathetic on

this vehicle at that price compared to pretty much everything else I drive, truck or car. And one other thing I'll mention is that I'm very disappointed John,

You and I have talked about this before, but I like lane centering if you're on a freeway for long periods of time, not lane keeping, and I don't I have not encountered any GM vehicle that has lane centering.

You either get the super crews, which is great, or you get lane keeping which ping pong's back and forth and it's awful. So I never use

it. And almost every other vehicle I drive these days, especially well I

won't say which ones, but lane centering works great and this one. GM

just doesn't think that's useful. I guess I don't understand why they don't offer

that, except that it does add a little cost and complexity. But everybody

else has it, so why not? Joanne, what did you think about

this truck? Well, I am not a truck person, but what I

like about this car, this truck and the GMC is just the size of it. Like it's manageable, you know, It's it's not this beast that

is impossible to get into. Now that said, I'm trying to remember.

Was it the trail version? There was a there was an off road version

that we tested there that I literally could not get into. I had to

grab this steering wheel and kind of hoist myself up and then jump out of when I was done striving. Yeah, I'm sure you're talking about the ZR

two. Well, was that the that was the Chevy version. Right,

yeah, oh yeah, Oh, I'm sorry you're talking GMC. Yeah,

I'm I can't remember now. But here's the thing. I like the size

and manageability of those trucks. And the other reason that I like U is

one of the first vehicles that has the new GM enfotainment system that's Google based.

You know, remember they're all the controversy over them, you know, going away from from Apple car Play, and you know, there's they took a lot of heat for that. But I think that system is, this

Google based system is quite good and it you know, part of it is you have to train yourself away from the mirroring of your phone. Now you

could still do that with the with the system, but it's not, at least for now you can. But I just think they're showing innovation with that,

and I wanted to give them credit for doing so, even though they took a lot of heat for it. Jody, what was your impression of

the truck? I liked it. Like Joanne said, I like that.

I like small trucks. I feel like a lot of people buy big trucks,

but they don't need big trucks, and so I'm a big fan of small trucks. I love the new redesign again. I love the new infotainment

system. Takes a little bit of getting used to, but it's because we've

been doing one thing for so long and this is a kind of a better way to do it. We just have to get used to it. I

like it a lot, but I don't think it's going to win. That's

my prediction. See. I like small trucks too, but I think the

Maverick is being a small truck. I mean, right, the wheelbase on

this thing is one hundred and thirty one point four inches long. It's three

inches longer than the outgoing vehicle, So I mean I think that it's it's still a sizable vehicle. John, what was your impression all sides trucks used

to be, right, Yeah, I thought it was good. I mean,

it didn't knock me out. And you know, we were supposed to

have the Ford Ranger on the list too, but because the UAW struck the plant that makes the truck, Ford pulled it from consideration. And as you

guys know, Toyota is just coming out with the new Tacoma. So I

would I would rather judge the new Colorado and Canyon, once I'm in the Ranger, once I'm in the Tacoma, and compare all three, and uh, I think we have a better choice in the Ford super Duty. I

mean, the super Duty lineup is phenomenal. Ford dominates the segment. They

just cram these trucks with all kinds of technology and very usable technology. Not

not nick knack, you know, ge whiz kind of stuff, but things that commercial fleet owners are going to love. That's going to make it easier

to tow, easier to back up, easier to back up with a trailer, especially easier in terms of diagnostics and all kinds of things. And I

thought Ford did a phenomenal job with this. And I I thought as a

package as uh, you know, evaluating these trucks, that the Super Duty uh was far and above the Colorado or Canyon. So so what I was

I was fairly skeptical of the Super Duty being included because this is supposedly a more consumer centric rather than business centric award. We want to basically say to

people, hey, this is this is something you had to look at.

And Mark Felon, who is a fellow juror and auto critic for the Detroit Free Press, pointed out to me. He said, you know, hey,

Gary, that that you know, lots of people buy these things for their daily drivers. And he says, you know, do not overlook that

fact. So so to that point, I mean, it really is astonishing.

And John, you're talking about you know, the power trains, so it's it's a complete V eight power train, gasoline and diesel. And I

mean you can the the the torque that you can get on the high output six point seven leader diesel is twelve hundred foot pounds. I mean it's just

like you could tow a mountain with this damn thing. Very very impressive.

So, Joanne, did you get into this, yes, barely? At

least there's a there's a you know, a running board that I could get in without a doubt. Ford knows how to make pickup trucks, right,

and they listen to their customers and they have everything in there that you could possibly need or want. So you know what what would cause me pause is

just the price. Right, I don't have that in front of me.

But these are one hundred thousand dollars vehicles, right, Oh you need a base model for forty so on the super duty. Okay, all right,

well, still, it's a lot of money, but it's great. It's

a great truck. No doubt they know what they're doing. Gary, I

don't have a whole lot to contribute other than what's already been said. I

too, am not a truck person, and I only drove this at the drive last October briefly. I haven't had extensive time in it, but I

agree with everything that's been said about the way it drives, the way the feature content, which is the negative on the Shivvy. I thought it's a

terrific truck. I can't imagine wanting or needing a super duty, let alone

a full side pickup myself, but if I did, this would be probably at the top of the list. Jody, did you drive this very briefly?

And again I think because during our testing event we weren't towing or hauling or doing anything like that, the oppression was still really strong. Again,

I love all the features. I think everything that Ford could have possibly thrown

into this truck it did. But again, it's more of a good thing

and it's not so much something that is revolutionary. And that's why I and

not super consumer friendly either, And so I think if I had to make a prediction. I have a feeling that the silverado Ev might take this year's

Truck Award, just because it is so radically different from what we've seen so far. You know, I didn't like the silverado Ev for this soul perfect

soul. Fact. Boy, is that thing expensive? You know when GM

announced it, they said, oh, it's going to be about forty thousand bucks, which is what Ford said about the Lightning too, if you'll remember.

And I thought these things are going to do great. I mean forty

grand and all that torque and towing capability and the way they drive and blah blah blah. Well the one that I drove was seventy four thousand bucks.

Seventy four thousand, and that's where I said, this thing's dead on arrival.

I mean, who's going to buy it? Joann? You already mentioned

you know it's hard enough to get people to well. EV sales have slowed

down, and especially Ford has seen that with the Lightning, And you know, I think you could sell this truck all day long at forty grand, but at seventy four thousand dollars, I think it's going to be a real struggle to sell it. Okay, but to be fair to Ford, Ford

actually had lightnings that they did sell to contractors that were below forty thousand dollars.

This yeah, for what three eighteen minutes, you know, but they did it. And in the case of General Motors, what they did was

they announced that it was going to be under forty thousand dollars. Then they

re announced that this work truck, we should we should emphasize the fact that the one we drove was the for WT. It was a work truck.

It didn't have all these amenities that we saw in the Super Duty, one of my favorite being the max reclined seat, which is basically a nearly flat seat in that truck. So, but be that as it may. Yeah,

the price is crazy. It's not a retail truck. It's a commercial

truck. You got to be a fleet owner to buy it, and I

think not a lot of fleets are going to buy this truck at that price.

I like the way of drove. I think GM's done an incredible job

with the engineering of it, but at that price, it's dead on arrival.

Joanne, I interrupted you, so please, Well, yeah, I was going to say some of the similar same things that you just said.

Gary, I kind of disagree with John. I was very impressed with the

truck. Now here's the problem. There's nothing wrong with this truck and there

will be forty thousand dollars versions of it eventually. The problem is with GM's

ability to produce the things right. So they just are not getting the trucks

out the door or any of their evs at the speed at which they should be in order to have an impact in the market. So my impressions of

this particular vehicle, I don't love the styling. They obviously went with a

look that's different on purpose, as opposed to Ford, which made an F one fifty with a different grill a different lighting scheme to to distinguish it.

This is definitely different from another Silverado. To me, it reminds me it's

reminiscent of the Avalanche, which was never a favorite of mine. But but

that said, uh, the it's really because again, what's different between the the F one fifty Lightning and this vehicle is a GM integrated the battery into the frame of the truck. It's much more in my view, much more

stable and really, I mean, it didn't feel like a truck when you're driving it frankly, excuse me, and they it had a much better range.

Of course, we were driving the larger battery, the extended range version, so longer range than the lightning and better towing. Uh So I see

your point, John, I get it. Like this version that we drove

is not necessarily representative of I think what the mass market versions will eventually be, and we'll see those sometime I guess next year or into twenty twenty five at this rate. Well, but to be fair, okay, so the

truck that we drove, as John said, was seventy four to eight, and then the RS one version that's coming out is going to be bumping around one thousand or one hundred grand before we start seeing the trucks that are that are less expensive. So, I mean, I don't understand this strategy.

I mean, maybe they're thinking, oh, that's what Tesla did, we can do it too, and that will be successful. Hey, they got

to make money, and you know, I think they're just figure and people are going to pay anything for these It's doubtful, but that's their strategy.

Let's make some money on these evs that we can't. I mean, there's

some in Canada. I feel like there's barely there's not really a price cap

on how much they can ask for trucks. I feel like a lot of

people here will buy them as lifestyle vehicles without ever towing or hauling or anything.

And I think that truck will have a huge audience of people in Canada, even people who are who haven't driven evs before. You know, perhaps

they were interested in afford f one fifty Lightning, but they're but they're chevy people, so now they finally have an option like that brand loyalty. I

think it was a really long way, especially in our market up here Gary.

Again, I don't have too much to add to that. I've only

driven it at the Fall event briefly, and I'm looking at a sticker of eighty thousand for the one I drove there. I think, and I like

the way it looks, I do, and I like the way it drove.

But I agree with everything that's been said about the price. It's we

don't know what the uh. This is the work version. You would think

it would be at the bottom of the list in terms of pricing and the and the ones for regular folks might be higher, but we'll see, all right, So somebody put this question to everybody. Okay, so so General

Motors has developed this technology, They've put this technology in this truck, and they're selling this truck for from seventy five to eighty thousand bucks. Is that

a realistic thing for the average consumer to even think about? Is that a

realistic thing for a contractor to think about when they could probably buy, you know, the super duty that is going to have all manner of you know, horsepower and torque to do whatever jobs they have and pay you know, I'm not going to say a fraction of the price, but a much less Well, look, I'll jump into first, and I think Jody made a great point. I mean, people pay a lot for trucks. They pay

a lot for trucks with gasoline engines in them, and even more for those with diesel engines in them. But we're talking about a work truck here,

We're talking about a commercial work truck, and fleet owners are into one thing, total cost of ownership. And unless this this electric truck can prove that

it's cheaper to operate over a five year period than a gasoline truck that costs hundred forty thousand dollars, they don't have a chance of selling it. Anybody

else want to chime in or do we want to get into the utility category.

Let's talk utilities. We beat that horse. Yeah, so the utility

category. Well, let's start with the image on the top, the Volvo

x C thirty ex ex I'm sorry, thank you for correcting me. The

e X thirty starting price thirty four nine with rear drive, electric motor, two hundred and sixty eight horse powerundred and seventy five mile range. Jody,

I love it. I thought it was really great how Volvo kind of downscaled

everything that we like about its larger, more expensive vehicles into this tiny little package and yet didn't have to make that many sacrifices to get it there.

I feel like the pricing is competitive, range is pretty good. The materials

used are supposedly more sustainable, but they don't feel like garbage, which is really nice. I think this is going to be a huge hit for them,

Joanne, speaking of sustainable materials, let's go to you. Yeah,

you know, that was one of the most fascinating things that I thought about the car, Like the interior. I don't know if you have a shot

of that, but they used ground up vinyl window frames on the door panels, and so it gives its little speckled look, and if you run your hand across it, you can actually feel a little chunks of plastic in there.

It is very sparse. This interior. You could see that giant screen

there, which is lovely. There is no instrument panel behind the wheel,

though, and so you have to look. It's sort of Tesla esque in

that regard. You have to look to the right to the screen. There's

no head up display, there's no instrument panel to see what your gauges and stuff say. So I wasn't a giant fan of that, but I was

very intrigued by what they've done on the interior. They you know, it's

interesting. I talked Evolvo about this and they're like, sustainability is the new

luxury, which I think is quite interesting. This car is aimed at younger

people, and they really do care about sustainability and they pick their brands that way, and so I would agree with Jody. I think this car can

do very well. Well, it's made in China right now, uh,

they're going to make it in uh Belgium. Belgium, thank you. I

knew it was somewhere in Europe. It'd be nice if they made it here

in their plant in South Carolina, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards for right now. I think it's good. The steering was a little

weird. What was what was going on with the steering in that car?

Who else drove it? Yeah, Like it was like, uh oh,

there was some oversteer, you know. I just I think there was a

setting. I think you can adjust that. I would need more time in

it to investigate, but I noticed Tom Tom Murphy had the same experience when he drove it for autoweek. He did not like it. By the way,

he's not it's not a juror, but he thought it was like too stripped down and not luxurious enough. I think it depends on what people are

looking for. They bye bye. By using all these new materials and new

processes, they were able to create a lot more storage space, which is a plus in my book. When you're driving a car that small, you

want places to stow things. Yeah, I'll jump in. Gary Witzenberg and

I got to drive it extensively in Barcelona, Spain for a couple of days.

I was impressed by the car. I think Volvo's got to hit on

its hands. The base price that you mentioned, Gary, I'll say thirty

five thousand ish. They'll allow you to easily option it up just to below

fifty thousand dollars. But it doesn't look quirky. It looks Volvo ish,

it looks modern. It drives well. I think with that price, with

the Volvo premium name, not a luxury name, but a premium name, I think they're going to sell this thing all day long. Gary. You

know, I agree with pretty much everything that's been said. I like the

way it looks. I like the way it drove, both whether you're in

a busy freeway or around town or out on a twisty two lane. It

handled quite well. Performance is great. The basis two sixty eight horsepower,

and you can, I guess you can get it up to four hundred and twenty two and looking here in the range is pretty good for that. My

one big objection, and I think John will agree with me on this, is that everything is in that screen. And I am a definite, passionate

non fan of having everything in the screen. Even the mirror adjustments are in

the screen. And yeah, if you own the vehicle, you only have

to do that once, but if you're sharing it with the spouse or whatever, that you have to go back and forth. And to me, a

user friendly infotainment system should have a few hard buttons, like a half a dozen or so to go from major function to major function to major function, and then big icons on a screen for everything else in the mirror to be over on the on the door, like it almost is in most other vehicles.

Not much else to complain about otherwise a cheap interior, I agree with that, but it didn't bother me that much. It wasn't offensively cheap to

me, all right, or Gary two points one to you and one of John A. In terms of the screen, it's for the kids, so

used to. Used to doesn't make it any safer. And in to your

point, it doesn't need a yoke. It doesn't need all right, all

right, So let's move on to the Genesis Electrified GV seventy car with arguably one of the worst names on the planet. Electrified is part of its name,

Electrified GV seventy. I mean, what what genius keen up with that

name? You know? This this, this is an electric s u V.

Short of that, I mean, I just think this thing is is just a wonderful vehicle, but a little low. It's got a estimated range

of two hundred and thirty six miles, which doesn't seem all that competitive to me nowadays, but in terms of luxury, in terms of design, it's just like, Wow, what a very nice vehicle. So Gary, I

want to start with you on this so then you won't have to say that you agree with everything else. Set well, there's not much to not like

about this vehicle. The GV seventy gas version is a really nice vehicle.

This electrified version is at least just nice depending on your preference and whether you're like icear or electric, very impressive. If you're looking at MPGe fuel economy

members, you're talking in the eighties and nineties for this thing, and it's just loaded down with every feature you could pretty much think of. It's not

an inexpensive vehicle. I'm looking at about a seventy five thousand dollars one that

I drove, and I can't personally subjectively. I like the look of it

quite a bit, and I don't have much to criticize, so I'll leave it open to anybody else who does all right, Jodie rip it apart.

I wish I could, but I actually really liked it. The only complaint

I have is I don't think it has enough range. I feel like Genesis

like hits really hard on every other aspect of it. I just wish that

it was able to push that range even higher to make it the most impressive.

But yeah, I like it. I like the way it looks like

the Waight drives it beautiful inside and out. Pricing is a little high,

but I think that's that's where Genesis is trying to go anyway, So I don't blame them for that. Yeah, the gas powered one was already so

great, and this one kind of just takes everything we like about that.

It makes it a little bit better. So, Joanne, what's your impression

of you know, you mentioned earlier forward taking the standard deck one fifty and turning it into a lightning and you know, here we have a situation where Genesis is saying, Okay, we've got this GB seventy, let's just stick an electric powertrain in it. So do you think there's any downside to doing

that? Yeah? I mean they are doing it across their lineup, and

it has led to some confusion this whole electrified thing because other companies use electrified to include hybrids and plug in hybrids and evs, and so I agree with you, it's not the best nomenclature for the vehicle. Ye, it's it's

you know, it's just a great Genesis makes great cars and they're lovely to drive. They smell good, they drive well, they're just beautiful, and

so you know they are likely to be limited on range unless they redesign, you know, from the bottom up for full evs. You know, there's

only so much battery you can fit in an existing car. I don't think

it's hurting that much, you know. So I loved it. I think

it's a great car, and you know, as long as you're not looking for a super long range, it's a great daily driver that you can feel wonderful about every day you get in it. So, John, I'm assuming

that you were a big fan of the boost mode, which gives you ten seconds of four hundred and eighty three horsepower. Yeah, I mean, it's

gimmicky, right, I mean, but of course everybody who gets in pushes that button on the steering We all just to see what it's like. But

I love the car. I mean the interior, especially at night, the

way they've lit it up. I mean, it just says luxury to me.

But I think, Joanne, I think you made a really good point there, and it gets to what Jody was saying about the range. If

you take an ice vehicle and modify it to be an electric, you can actually come out with a very good car like this one is. I think

the forward lightning is a terrific one, but they're just not as efficient as a clean sheet design for an EV, where you're going to get that much more efficiency and much better range. And so we all know that the Hyundai

group is working on a new platform. It's a couple of years away from

from hitting the streets, and in fact, I think in two years, in the twenty twenty five to twenty twenty six time frame, that's when we're going to see the legacy auto makers really put their best foot forward with their their best EV stuff. That's when I think a lot of opinions about evs

amongst people who don't like them will start to change because we're still really I mean, I don't want to call it first generation because all the compliance cars came before it. But I don't think we've seen the legacies really put their

best foot forward yet. There's still a couple of years away. All right,

So let's let's go to our final, final, final fist, the Key EV nine. So here we have a three row suv and electric vehicle.

It has two power trains, either one with a two hundred and fifteen horse power motor or one with a dual motor which will get you three hundred and seventy nine horse power. It's you know, handle seven people and your

your base. You're looking at two hundred and thirty mile range, which is

not so good. But man, is this It's big, it's it's capable,

and so far as I know, this is the only vehicle of its type on the planet right now. I've always said, yeah, I believe

said that if you know, evs will take off when you deliver a car that's big enough for everyone's people and their stuff, that is efficient. You

know, don't give them those acount of boxes. Give them what they want,

which is a large vehicle with plenty of room for people and stuff.

That said, like, I really liked it. I I'm not. I

don't love the styling. I think it's it's good. It's good. It's

just a little boxy for me. Perhaps I'm similar with the tail you ride.

It's not my favorite design, but it's okay, but it is.

It's a big, heavy car, and it's expense. I mean, they've

got a decent price on it. But again, this is gonna take a

family up into a pretty high price, but really drives great. It delivers

what people want, which is electric efficiency in a big package. Gary,

you were saying something, Yeah, I am definitely a fan of this vehicle.

I have some reservations about how many people really want a three row all electric, but if they do, this is other than that one Tesla model which is optional three row. This is the only one so far. There

will be more to follow, I'm sure, but it is big and heavy and that affects the range, as does the you know, the platform.

It's interesting to me that of the nine finalists here, three of them fully a third are Korean, and all three of those are electric. One car

and two very strong contenders in this utility category. They're doing a great job

with electric and everything else, but here we are picking out their electrics to be our finalists. Jody, how did you like the EV nine. I

liked it a lot. I thought it was really impressive. I think it

has a lot of that like sparkle factor and cool factor that perhaps a lot of the other finalists don't have, where the Ionic six is like not for everyone because it looks like a MELTI soapbar. I think a lot of people

can get behind the looks of the EV nine. I personally really like it.

I love boxy cars. That whole like modern meets retro is like really

hot right now, and I think I think it's going to be a big one for a lot of people. And and Sean's mentioning that the Rivian R

one s is a three row, which is true, but it's also like double the price of this. So so what's sort of interesting is is that

we went from the small Volvo e X thirty to the enormous Kia EV nine.

You know, this is the sort of joy. This goes back to

what you're saying earlier about having something for everyone, different different categories, different price points, different architectures. It's a it's it's a development showing that things

are moving in a forward direction. John, what was your impression of the

evening mind very I think you just made a very interesting observation. Here we're

talking about the big expense of luxurious Kia and the cheap, little affordable Volvo.

I mean, who would have thought. And you know, Kia has

been coming on like a I mean, I believe they're outselling the Hondai brand now, which must drive the Hyundai people up the wall, because Hyundai used to outsell Kia at least in this country two to one, more than two to one at one point. And so here's Kiya coming out with, you

know, very provocative styling, lots of great technology, very bleeding edge kind of stuff. And even though this is an expensive vehicle, they've buy and

large packaged everything into something that's more affordable. And this should scare the hell

out of other major legacy brands that they've come up so far. I mean,

here they are with the only quote unquote affordable versus the Rivian. And

thanks for posting that, Sean boy. If I were Toyota, if I

were Honda and others, I'd be deeply worried at how Kia nday to an extent, but Keia especially is really establishing more of a premium image for its brand especially in the electric segment. The others compete. You know, Chevy

and Ford don't not have to worry as much because they don't get cross shopped with Fundai's and Kias. But Toyota, but you know, Toyota, Honda,

Nissan, Mazda, SuPAR Root, they should be deeply worried at the progress that Kia has made. The other thing I'll say about Keia is they

too are going into this sustainable materials direction. They're leading on that as well

along with Balbo, and you see it in the in the EV nine, uh, with some of the interesting materials they're using. So I find that

I agree with you John, it's really impressive. But they're like they're they're

going premium. Like they've always been a great value. You get a lot

of car for the money for a Kia, and now they're kind of they see sustainability as their next uh cutting edge kind of premium feet Sure, I would just add one thing, uh, Gary, you were talking about like all these you know, we've got the big, the big EV nine and the little uh E X thirty. I mean, what's what's challenging when you're

a juror is that we are not supposed to rate these cars against each other.

Uh, we need to rate them against their category. And so it's

hard to, you know, pick a preference over a Big EV nine or a Genesis Electrified GB seventy or the or the Volvo, because they're they're all competing in different in different areas, and so I think it's important for the audience to understand that we're not comparing them to each other. We're comparing them

to their segment and whether they set new benchmarks. Sorry, sure, go

ahead, two more quick things. Also, it's interesting to me that our

utility category all three finalists full battery electrics. That's that's interest. And I

did say not much to complain about. I will revise that to say,

the Korean vehicles to me, up until a couple of years ago, had among the very best user friendly, intuitive infotainment interfaces, and the latest ones do not. They've gone a different direction, and it's there's a real learning

curve and I'm still having trouble finding some things to do on that infotainment system they've moved to on all of the Korean vehicles. That's a good right one.

So we're near the end of the show here, so I want to ask my fellow jers if they want to do this. Does anybody want to

give their predictions of who the winners will be? Or is that too controversial?

Oh? I don't even know which ones I'm voting for? You,

how can I predict how the jury's going to vote. They're all good and

I need more time to really consider. And I appreciate all of your opinions

as well. Prio Super Duty and EVY nine. That's my prediction. Okay,

I'm gonna go Accord Super Duty and e X thirty, So Honda Accord Forward Super Duty, Volvo e X thirty. I think the Silverado EV is

going to win the trucks, that's my prediction. SUVs is a toss up

between e X thirty and EV nine because they're both very, very good, and I think the Prius might might take the car category. How about you,

Gary, I'm I'm with I'm with Jody just just right across the board that that Silverado EV will do it. I'm not sure between the e X

thirty and the and the EV nine, and I think the Prius will will beat the Accord just just by a little bit. Though. That's great.

Don't want to do it. Joan, Well, if those those were what

I was thinking coming into this conversation. But you've all raided some interesting points

that I want to give a little more thought to. But you're probably right,

I think, Gary and Jodi, but the Super Duty has a good chance as well. Good deal. Okay with that, I think we'll close

the show. So we will, and and and a short programming note.

Next week is Thanksgiving. We will not be doing a show and and Jerry

will be it's Thanksgiving in the United States, because that's that's right. Yeah,

Thanksgiving was a month ago. You guys harvest your crops earlier because you're

farther nor It's true. It's a little colder up here. That's great.

But thanks all you guys for coming on. This has been a great discussion.

Thank you for having me so yeah. Oll Online After Hours is brought

to you by bridge Stone Tires, Solutions for Your Journey and by Borg Warner.

If you like this program, I would like to learn more about the automotive industry, check out our website at Autoline dot tv, or look for us on YouTube on the Autoline channel.

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