AAH #752 - The Automakers That Design The Best Interiors

Speaker 1: Out Online after Hours is brought to you by bridge Stone Tires Solutions for your journey.

Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, thanks for joining us on Outline after Hours today. Girl,

we've got a big show on vehicle interiors.

Speaker 3: So not only is it hot outside, but this would be a hot show. It's like ninety three degrees outside,

so we're really getting serious summer here in southeast that's right.

Speaker 2: Yeah, And second half of the show, we got a lot of news to get into a lot of things that have been developing. But we got to let the

audience know who's joining.

Speaker 3: Us for the show today. Well, we have Christy Truett

slash Schweinsberg either way, who is the new editor of Ward's Auto. And we have Bob Gritzinger, her predecessor as

the editor of Ward's Auto. So welcome to you both.

And a reason that we have you two here is because you two were among the judges for the Awards ten Best Interiors in UX Awards, which recently came out.

And how long has this been going on? And then

we'll get right into the cars that are winners.

Speaker 4: Roughly fifteen years. You're catching me off guard here. We

have a slightly different format in the beginning for ten Best Interiors Ten Best Interiors and UX has been dueled for This is the fourth year in a row if we've had the combined competition, So a long legacy of interior evaluations by the awards editors.

Speaker 3: Okay, briefly, just just give us a quick how do we do it?

Speaker 5: How do we do it?

Speaker 6: Yes, we get in the vehicles, we drive them on our daily commute and use them like the average consumer would.

Speaker 2: And how many tars are on the list for you guys?

So we had thirty.

Speaker 5: Five, I believe thirty five.

Speaker 2: And how many judges do you judges?

Speaker 6: Yes? So, and you're testing, you know, how the navigation works,

but then also fits finishes, some.

Speaker 2: Materials, unique design, that kind of thing.

Speaker 7: Yeah, diving into the infotament system.

Speaker 4: Menus, we're probably doing a little bit deeper evaluation than the average consumer, but we really want to we want to leave no stone unturned and give give everybody a great.

Speaker 6: And because we're getting into so many vehicles in a pretty short timeframe a couple of months, we're getting back to back to back sampling.

Speaker 5: Which is the best way to evaluate.

Speaker 6: And so you know, you might think something is great and then you get into something else and you go, well, this blows that away, and it's thirty thousand dollars, not seventy thousand dollars, so you know.

Speaker 3: So so I should I should confess that I was a judge too, and I probably argued with these guys more than they liked as it makes so okay. The

first one. We do this alphabetically, so it's a it's

a top ten list, but there's no ranking in terms of one to take everybody's equal. So the Buick Enclave,

which has a rather sumptuous interior, it struck me as being an interior that could be on any vehicle, much higher level than a Buick. Not to be dismissive with Buick,

but so would you guys think of that?

Speaker 7: It was beautiful.

Speaker 4: So this was one of a number of examples of a white and blue interior, although if you look at them Androni's, they all say light gray, but it looks certainly ivory or white to our eyes. And it was

the Avenier trim level. So one thing to note is

we don't ever specify a trim level or a color combination or design theme. We just tell the automakers please

give us what represents your designer's intent and your UX engineer's intent. So this year, for whatever reason, we got

a lot of white in blue, blue and white interiors and this was one.

Speaker 7: Of them, very very stunning.

Speaker 4: It had a really unique feature and having a perforated I think it was faull leather perforated full leather that the ambient lighting came through, which was very unusual.

Speaker 7: Usually it's a hard surface.

Speaker 6: And also those perforations kind of went in a fade pattern they did on the seats, on the door panels.

All of that just really nice. And then in terms

of ux thirty inch screen to handle everything and it's all right there in front of you, and they incorporated Google Maps, so things got things. So you guys like

that improvement.

Speaker 7: I liked a lot. It was sixty four thousand to

your point, which but yeah.

Speaker 4: I mean today that kind of between a mass market and a luxury vehicle, and it had a luxury like interior for sure.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought that was great a chance to get that.

Speaker 2: No, I have not been in that all right.

Speaker 3: So then moving right along, and this is what I thought is a completely breakthrough interior design for this brand, the Cadillac Optique you know, I mean historically, I thought that Cadillac has tried and tried and tried, and I think finally they've delivered.

Speaker 2: What was the difference What made the difference for you on this one?

Speaker 3: Because I mean the use of materials. I mean they

had metallic materials, which you know, we're we're familiar with in cars, but usually they're they're usually you know, brushed aluminium or chrome or or films. Yeah, some some rose

would treatment sort of thing. But this was blue. I

mean it was just like to your point of having blue and tears, they had that. And the way the

cabin was laid out, it seemed to me that they're saying, Okay, this is a car of the twenty first century, we ought to make it look like one in terms of the way we position the screens, the way we we have the materials and and and sections come together. I mean,

it was it was extraordinary.

Speaker 4: It also had a brass uh satin brass element on the edge the front edge of the center console. Floating

center consoles is another huge trend that was that was explained floating for those don't not connected to the instrument panel, there's space underneath it.

Speaker 7: To underneath.

Speaker 4: There was a shelf that also had blue. It was

like a blue felt. I believe that was also on

the doors. And this was a bright blue. So this

wasn't like Naval Academy Navy. It was like a royal blue.

So yeah, there there was a gamut of blues that we saw.

Speaker 2: And you know that felt, or flocking as they call it, is uh uh something you only see on luxury cars.

It's added expense. But that's so if you put things

in the door pockets, it doesn't rattle around. It's got

a soft surface it sits on. And I would just

throw in.

Speaker 6: Two little things that as a newspaper person I loved, and that was that they actually incorporated newsprint into the trim on the center console and you if.

Speaker 5: You looked closely, because it was recycled.

Speaker 6: Right, recycled material, and you could pick up did you find your byline? I asked them what newspaper and they said, really,

I think it was something from Spain. So and and

the other element was this car was the first application of Dobe at most sound. And I heard Adobe at

most Yeah, for Cadillac. I heard it in the studio.

They took us to the studio. First, we heard the

same song in the car, and the car may have been better.

Speaker 2: I wouldn't go that far, but I would say that that Dolby Atmos seven point one point four is the best sound you will ever hear in a car outside of a recording studio.

Speaker 5: Yeah, but it's terrific.

Speaker 3: Yes, And I think one of the points about this car is is that, Okay, Cadillac needs to reach a younger demographic for its future, right, And I mean I think this nails it in the way that its other products don't. I mean, it seems to me it's other

products are basically saying, Okay, we want to appeal to our existing base more or less, right, right, But this time they're like, Okay, we got a future here, let's make the future.

Speaker 7: So it was definitely very progressive.

Speaker 3: Elements. Right. So now this, now, this is one John

that I know you're in the Dodge Charger Daytona.

Speaker 5: Yeah, that's right. I was in that one.

Speaker 2: In fact, you and I got to sit in there with Jeff Gail, who runs interior design, and Ian negdi Kan, who.

Speaker 3: Is in charge of all of interior design for Right America whatever we call it now.

Speaker 4: Yeah, So this was a classic red and black sporty interior, but it's and audibly it was a classic sound.

Speaker 7: But it's a pure electric vehicle.

Speaker 6: Right, yes, with a zero to sixty and three point three seconds, which has nothing to do with the nothing carrier.

But but when you turned on that pipe organ exhaust and launched it, you wouldn't know any difference. Unbelievable ux

experience from that point of view. Uh and and again

that that bright interior just blew it blew us away. Yeah.

Speaker 4: The door trim was, especially the door trim that sweeped up to the a panel that was forward, let I believe is how they described it.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it was interesting that the trim panels were waveformed, right, I mean it was.

Speaker 5: It was yeah, ridged, it was.

Speaker 3: It was not flat as as these things normally are, and that sort of served to be as light pipes.

And of course there was the adjustability of you know, sixty four different colors or something.

Speaker 5: Yeah, all of that.

Speaker 3: But the thing that struck me about this was that, Okay, so this is this is Dodge's first EV. Okay, so

they've got to make it seem like an EV. Yet

it's a charger. They have to make it a muscle car, right,

they have to. They have to appeal, you know, to

the brotherhood of muscle. They don't want to lose them, right,

And I think that if you look at that interior, they were able to pull off both the you know, contemporaneous ev part yet there was heritage in that.

Speaker 2: And have a pistol grip shifter, right.

Speaker 7: I mean, it was just like the seeds were incredible too.

Speaker 4: I just want to say, overall, we've seen a lot of really clever stitch patterns, although this was more like a carved geometric pattern and.

Speaker 2: Swayed yeah, more woven yeah.

Speaker 7: Right, Yeah, there's a lot of.

Speaker 2: Really there's so much detail in the interior of that car.

I mean, you could sit in there for a couple of days and start to pick up on details that you hadn't noticed at first. There's that much there, and

yet there's a lot to look at, but it doesn't look overly busy.

Speaker 4: And then they have the screens that pertain, you know, the graphics that pertain to the various different methods.

Speaker 3: They put it in modes and you get a whole different animation, which you know, and I asked, you know, Ryan and Jeff about that, and you know, it just seemed to me that so much of cars now are the animations that you're seeing when you're starting these things.

And they were saying that, yeah, there there are lots of people that they have in their studio now that are basically doing animations all the time all they.

Speaker 2: Do, and their backgrounds are almost always gaining right, So they're bringing the gaming experience to the dashboard right.

Speaker 3: Right, which again I think speaks to this whole issue of you know, having a future. So so here you

have this venerable you know, brand that makes muscle cars saying okay, how do we relate to the younger crowd who have you know, grown up playing grand theft auto in making them want to drive what we have a right and then drive it that way?

Speaker 2: Yeah?

Speaker 3: All right, So this this one is is like, okay, we're dealing with vehicles. But this was basically strucks me

as being a house on wheels. It's so damn big, the.

Speaker 2: Ford Expedition fantastic vehicle. Uh. From from one end to

the other, the.

Speaker 6: The instrument cluster. The screen was set forward so that

it serves as both the IP and a head up display, so they eliminated the head up display and then at the stern totally functional tailgating camping. If you do any

of that, this vehicle has you covered.

Speaker 7: In spades with the seat slash table.

Speaker 2: Yeah, seat stores underneath the cargo.

Speaker 4: Have you been in this John, They created this like rectangular piece that store. It's stored under the cargo floor.

It comes out. You can fashion it as a table,

but then there's also like a channel carved that you can put it in and lean. It creates a seat back,

so if you're watching the kids at soccer or whatever, you can sit on the tails.

Speaker 3: So basically you have a panel, you know, a standalone panel that you can create a seat with more like a bench.

Speaker 4: And it has little legs too if you want to get a table.

Speaker 3: Yeah. And and they took a arguably a page from

the Dodge Chrysler Slash Jeep design book by having little Easter eggs, especially especially in the back there where they they had little little elements of like instructions like this is how you do it. And it was very cleverly done.

All right, So moving on, And this is one that I know that Bob really liked, and I was not so keen On. But the GMC Yukon Denali.

Speaker 7: Well, a lot of big SUVs this year, a.

Speaker 6: Lot of big suv, but this was the that brown with the like cross stitch instead.

Speaker 7: Of it was meant to mimic barbed wire.

Speaker 5: Destructing.

Speaker 3: That was like, it's like an entire herd of cattle gave their lives to make this vehicle.

Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, right, uh, but otherwise, you know, a excellent representation.

I thought of GM's whole precision GMC's precision crafted vehicle.

This is this is a machine first, and so you get that feel.

Speaker 2: From you know, the.

Speaker 6: Sharper elements, but then it's another living room on wheels.

Speaker 5: Why did you not like it?

Speaker 3: Gary? Because I just, for me, I thought it was

over the top. I just I just thought that the

you know, it was like the.

Speaker 2: This is a gale though that You're right, it had this whole it seemed to me like a cattle ranching theme.

Speaker 3: You know that that just went too far. I mean,

you can get you can get into an f one fifty king ranch and not feel that you're going to have to take out a piece of straw and put it in your mouth because you're on a ranch. On

this thing. I just thought thought it was just overwhelming, and.

Speaker 4: I think we could probably say several were pretty over the top. But that's I think what makes them fun

and what makes them appealing and.

Speaker 2: What well you have to keep in mind too, what appeals to you may not appeal to the person who's actually down the Yeah, yeah, no.

Speaker 3: I think whoever bought, you know, somebody who wanted that thing, they would they would be like showing their neighbors. I mean,

it's just.

Speaker 7: Like but speaking.

Speaker 4: I just want to mention the seats had a NULLI echoing topographical.

Speaker 7: Marking, so there was like an embossing.

Speaker 4: That made it look like like a dried lake bed or something like when puddles, you know, dry out.

Speaker 7: Yeah, overwrought for you.

Speaker 3: But saw keeping with that cattle theme, they drank all the water and now those poor cattle need to find some more pasture to graze in.

Speaker 2: It was only one hundred and nine thousand.

Speaker 3: Yeah, so we did have all.

Speaker 4: The luxury at SUV's this year, but preferred this one because it did bring some new ideas.

Speaker 7: Thank you.

Speaker 3: So here's here's a brand spanking new vehicle, the Hondai Ionic nine, a three row EV that I would argue was completely engineered to be a large, comfortable, capable, utile mode of transportation. That was very well done.

Speaker 7: Absolutely.

Speaker 4: I mean it has again light interior Ford by the way, the exhibition had a light interior. Has a lot of

really unique shapes, a lot of like oval u shapes, but it's also quite linear the ip and most of the door trim, and it has the great as far as features, had the great slide out.

Speaker 6: It's because his giant console and it's got the tray that pulls out to the the back.

Speaker 3: With a drawer. Yeah.

Speaker 7: And we forgot to mention the expedition that had a movable.

Speaker 6: Yeah, that they move those of those cup holders back to those people in the back, those children so they you know, they're within reach yet, or move them away from them to get back on the night.

Speaker 4: I think kind of in this speakle everywhere you turn, you got the accurate sense this is an electric vehicle.

You know, this is something different than a palisade or a Yukon or you know. It just had that sort

of modernity, that futurism.

Speaker 2: Around exterior styling the same thing exactly.

Speaker 4: Yeah. The interior was a close companion of the exterior

design and you know great great performing UAX and infotainment, some some clever uh you know, seating.

Speaker 7: Configurations.

Speaker 4: I love how Hyundai does the USB ports on the side of the front seat so you don't have to like reach down to that. I mean you couldn't reach

down to the botmom because you got the draw that comes out. But they really do kind of go everything, through,

through everything, go over everything with a fine tooth comb.

Speaker 2: In terms of usability, Yeah, I liked everything about that vehicle except the price. You know, the one that I

drove was over seventy seven thousand dollars, which I know electrics are more expensive. I know this is an upscale vehicle,

but I thought for a Hyundai, wow, that was a massive price.

Speaker 3: Can I introduce you into the Buick Enclave for which was it Christie sixty four?

Speaker 2: Yeah, but and that was there was calligraphy. Yeah, but

go back to the Cadillac Optic that's fifty five.

Speaker 5: It's electric, right.

Speaker 3: But the but the Optic is about like the size of this rug, and the nine is about the size of this room.

Speaker 4: I also had a really cool hard trim. It was

like almost like a granite mimic or something.

Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is this is something that we should we talk about a little bit that that we saw in a lot of vehicles that they were using a different kind of fabric than we're used to seeing in vehicles.

It almost seemed as though it was more cloth than sort of the durable, heavy duty stuff that we've seen on seats or on door trim. It's it's almost they're saying, hey,

let's have something that's light and more environmentally oriented. And

so you know, this stuff is like woolen life plant bottles and there there was a whole lot of that.

I thought that this year compared to other vehicles.

Speaker 6: And that's part of the electric trend, you know. There

you're trying to be an ecologically friendly vehicle and we're not only just electric, we're recycling pop boddles.

Speaker 2: Yeah, we're sustainable.

Speaker 3: Right. So, Bob, you mentioned this sort of at the top,

a vehicle that really has impressive stuff for not a whole lot of money. The Kia K four used to

be the key of forte. Now it's in the new

key and nomenclature of K and added digit at the end.

This thing really struck me as being again sort of a level above the entry level vehicle that it is in terms of a career.

Speaker 4: Absolutely. Yeah, it was around thirty thousand. I think we

had the GT line, which admitiately is you know, I think the top trim level for them. But still thirty

thousand is twenty thousand less than the average price of a new vehicle today. And had a lot of style,

you know, a lot of cool uh trim elements. Glossy

gray trim, so piano black has been a trend for years and finally we're seeing it die out and some yeah, different hard trims are happening in Glossy gray is one of them. And then there was ambient lighting, you know,

same as you get in a luxury vehicle, multi color ambient lighting.

Speaker 6: And a lot of technology and awesome audio system I think what harmon carden, you know, in a in a little compact of economy vehicle essentially nowadays had eight ass and you know, full range. Yeah, I mean you get

in it.

Speaker 2: And it's not of a bucket.

Speaker 3: Or as it was once called a ship box. But

after hours, okay like that. But so John, let me

ask you, so, you know, it seems to me that you know, we've seen from Hundai and Kia that you know, they're really almost ahead in terms of their electronics capabilities that they're putting into vehicles, whether it's you know, screens or sensors right across the board. Do you think this

is because of like you know, Bob mentioned har Harmon Carden, Well, you know that's owned by Samsung now, which is of course a Korean company. I mean, do you think there's

there's perhaps greater integration of the electronics companies with the auto companies in Korea?

Speaker 2: Good question that I don't know off the top of my head. I would just say that the Hyundai group

is extremely good at getting the latest technology across its product line. It at price levels that are below the competition,

and so you know, I would I would say this is true of Genesis, Hyundai, and Kia. It's rather extraordinary

how well all the electronic stuff work. I'd like to

get your guys impression of the UX the user interface on it. But I find them to be some of

the best in the business. Yeah, I would say from

a phone pairing standpoint, the Hondi group is the best.

Everybody should just copy what they do. Don't even waste

any of your own time trying to engineer it, just go copy them.

Speaker 4: Yeah, we found the navigation system easy to access, intuitive, cleanly, laid out great graphics in this vehicle. In terms of animation,

people working on animation did a great job with the really jazzy startup, with the running lines and the geometric lines, and yeah, it gives you a lot for not relatively speaking, a lot of money in terms of new car.

Speaker 3: Yeah, another comparatively economical vehicle that made the top ten the Nissan Kicks. Now, you know, I remember when they

first brought the Kicks out, and wasn't that like designed on a Brazilian design studio and they wanted it to be like this urban urban vehicle and they're going to try to appeal to the kids. And you know, it

struck me that with this new generation of Kicks, what they've basically done is said, you know what, we put a lot of stuff in our higher trim level vehicles.

We put a lot of stuff in our Morano. Let's

say or you know one of the other let's let's do as much as we possibly can to this this segment.

And I think they did a very good job. I mean,

historically it seemed to be that that Nissan was often like sort of behind and in its interiors that they thought it's a good place we cut some costs, we'll just take that out of there. But now it seems

that they're like, no, let's put stuff in this vehicle to make it appealing. So people are going to say, hey,

this is this is a car I can be proud of.

Speaker 7: Yeah, they did a great job.

Speaker 4: Again, it was another thirty thousand, around around thirty two thousand sport grades, so we had the red and the black going on, but it had great just like the K four, great infotainment UX technology.

Speaker 6: Yeah, the tech package included the full three sixty system that you get on higher level Nissense, right, and now it's the full full system.

Speaker 7: Yeah, and of.

Speaker 4: Course technology wise, can't forget to mention the bows speakers in the headrest head rest, which pleased a lot of our judges myself included. Yeah, they really packed a lot

into this vehicle.

Speaker 6: Really cool the way they put had the red accents coming through the perforated seat. Yeah, just everything felt sporty.

Speaker 2: For a vehicle that.

Speaker 4: You know, it's kind of a grocery in that category of vehicles.

Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, we're also going to make this thirty minutes. Okay,

we only got two more the Toyota fore Runner. Now,

I I completely love this car and and and for one reason mainly and and that is because they looked at it from the point of view is saying, you know what, people, people drive these under conditions that they're slamming around the roads, bumpy, and therefore we need to provide interfaces like big giant chunky knobs that they can grab and they can you know, they can adjust what they need to adjust, and they can hang on to it, grab handles, grab handle. I mean it was utilitarian, well,

but it was utilitarian executed in a higher level, you know.

And I mean, and you know they use some materials.

You know, you're talking earlier about how what was you no, the on the trim trim that was that was almost a stone, Yeah, in the word Toyota coming out in letters that were placed on there. Of course, I used

to think that that was for people forgot which car there.

But I just thought they did a sensational job and.

Speaker 2: Really true to you know, that off road rugged feel.

Speaker 6: That that just carried throughout the vehicle.

Speaker 4: Yeah, but also had some style with those hex hexagonal.

It was a navy interior, the one that we had, but it had a bronze hex stitch all over the place on the seats, on the doors, and that was really really cool element for something that's utilitarian. But you

could also take it, you know, out on the town for a night and valley at at a fancy restaurant and fit right.

Speaker 3: All right, last, but certainly not least, because remember these are not ranked in order, right, the Volvo ex ninety.

Speaker 4: Yeah, so this is the new all electric Volvo three row and this has speaking of sustainability, a ton relatively, speaking of sustainable materials.

Speaker 3: Probably eat this vehicle.

Speaker 4: So Volvo claims almost one hundred and ten pounds of recycled plastic and bio based contents. So carpets made from

regenerated nylon, bio attributed wood, that's backlit at night, which was really cool, and that woods harvested from certified sustainable forest in Finland and Sweden. It's expensive, it's ninety four

thousand dollars, but I thought it was just really really beautiful and had a lot of forward thinking elements. The

back lit wood was a surprise, and then the screen watching video elements on the you video on the screen, the harmon k is it harmoncardon?

Speaker 7: It might be miss speaking here, all right.

Speaker 4: So Wilkins, Bowers and Wilkins Bowers. Sorry sorry sorry Bowers

and Wilkins. Uh yeah, twenty five speaker Bowers and Wilkens

audio system.

Speaker 7: That really blew me away.

Speaker 3: See and again this this sort of you know, it had the the you know, Scandinavian modern you know, furniture aesthetic on the inside of this vehicle. And again it's

you know, as you said, it's it's a big vehicle.

So it isn't quite the Ford Expedition house on wheels.

This is like a tiny house on wheels, right right, And so when they designed the interior, they looked at it from the point of view I think of saying, Okay, how do we make this large space we have to deal with as appealing as we possibly can. And yeah,

and then they had that large screen which is in a portrait mode rather than alan or landscape moode and and Google there's their TV set.

Speaker 8: Yeah.

Speaker 4: We should note that the vast majority of our winners had Android operating systems, but they didn't all look the same, you know. So I think that's a breakthrough that you know,

you can differentiate yourself in that space even though you're.

Speaker 3: Using Well, so, John, do you think that is you know, so this you know, this is the operating system. This

isn't the you know, using the Google thing that we all have on our phones. Do you think that you

know you were saying, copy what what Hondaikei is doing.

Is this a case where the car companies are basically saying, you know what, maybe we ought to let Google do.

Speaker 2: More of our No, no, no, you know when I say, let just go out and copy what Hondai's doing. From

a phone pairing standpoint, yeah, so, I mean literally, you whip out your phone and there's already something on the connection serene that says Hyundai, you click that, boom you're done, and others it's like, oh, I started my phone first instead of starting it on the car first. I mean

the connection process I.

Speaker 6: Think GMS is pretty quick. Maybe well maybe there's maybe

they're maybe there's this. But but when it comes.

Speaker 2: To the interior, the design, the user experience, not just the user interface, the car company has got to control that, got to control that from a brand image standpoint.

Speaker 5: Now, the back end.

Speaker 2: Can be all Google or Android or Apple or whatever you want. But to me, I mean, if I'm designing

your car, I want it to be my design. I

don't want everybody to go, oh, it's you know, it's got Android, it's got Apple. It looks like my phone, right,

you know. I want a familiarity so that I know

how to navigate through the screen. But I would argue

an automaker's got to put its face on what the customer actually sees and how the customer interacts with it.

Speaker 5: Yeah.

Speaker 3: So so one final question before we break this segment, I got to ask you guys, is that Okay I counted, we had thirty three in the list, okay, and ten made it. Were there anything any things that stood out

to you that you were like, this is why these others didn't make it?

Speaker 5: Why the others?

Speaker 4: I mean it usually it's a UX issue more so than a design issue.

Speaker 2: Specifically, what in the UX that you don't like?

Speaker 4: Just clunky latency when you're you select something and you wait and you wait and you wait, or the phone pairing experience is bad or something is hidden.

Speaker 2: You know what I find clunky too is if you're using Apple car Play, toggling between Apple car Play and the creative It's like, I find that very awkward to use now again you all, and I am jumping in and out of cars all the time. I know if

I lived with it, I'd learned okay, very intuitively, but it shouldn't have to be that way. It should be

much more intuitive, and some automakers do a much better job than others.

Speaker 4: I think it's getting better. A lot of automakers are

now putting an app on the car Play system so you can quickly.

Speaker 2: Just get all right then just as car Play and you hit it right, but some do not.

Speaker 7: Occasionally it's a fit and finished issue.

Speaker 4: There was one vehicle I can think of this year that had some wonky fit and finish that you know, we score on that, so it got a that hurt it.

But nine times out of ten it's usually some software.

Speaker 6: Yeah, quirk UX issue more than anything, because now everyone, every auto maker is producing what seems like pretty high quality from you know, a thirty thousand dollars to a one hundred and nine thousand dollars vehicles, So trying to find those little differentiators something like a UX glitch of some bad trim not thinking through how someone gets into

a third row of those things jump out.

Speaker 2: Well, that's why it takes a panel of six judges, including you three, going through thirty cars back to back to back. That's when you start to really notice these things. Sure, okay,

enough about this, Yeah, okay, let's take a break. We'll

be back shortly and talk about news of the week.

Speaker 8: Knowing that a little rain won't slow down your day, that's what really matters. Bridge don't runs a bi attract tires,

confident control in wet conditions.

Speaker 3: All right, we're back, all right, So while we're waiting for Christy, Yeah, I'm gonna quez you guys. Okay, and

if you get the answer to this, I think you need to immediately leave the studio, go to Hollywood and appear on Jeopardy.

Speaker 2: Come in. But I got the box, and I mean

I can look it.

Speaker 5: Up, joh.

Speaker 3: Okay. So there are two separate car companies, two different

car companies. One was founded on July twenty fourth, nineteen

ten and still exists. Okay. The second car company was

founded in nineteen oh five and cease to exist on July twenty fourth, nineteen seventeen. So you can you can

come up with that was fast. You can come up

with either the car company that still exists that was founded on July twenty fourth, or you can come up with the car company that no longer exists, that cease to exist on July twenty fourth, nineteen seventeen.

Speaker 5: Nineteen ten? Is Ford?

Speaker 3: No?

Speaker 2: Ford was nineteen oh three the current Ford Motor Company.

Because Henry had started a couple of companies before that.

I don't know why I'm going to say Rolls Royce, but I.

Speaker 3: Think they actually found So this is one that was founded on.

Speaker 2: This date July twenty fourth, twenty ten or nineteen ten, did except I don't know why I'm saying Rolls Royce because I'm pretty sure Rolls started before that.

Speaker 4: Is it a car company or a car brand company?

Speaker 3: Well, it's a company that I mean, is it Cadillac?

Speaker 2: No?

Speaker 3: And if one went out right now, Alex Trebek is just shaking his head.

Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but he's dead, so that's good, all right, Ken Jennings the other.

Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And for the one that went out a bit, when you say nineteen seventeen, that's towards the end of World War One, so that almost makes me think it might be a German company, American company. It's an American company.

Speaker 5: Then I have.

Speaker 3: The idea it's a good guess what would you say electric?

Speaker 5: Oh yeah, that is a good guy.

Speaker 3: All right, So which which do you want first? The

one that still exists.

Speaker 2: Still yeah, yeah, give us a good news.

Speaker 3: An Ammonia, Lombardia, Fabrica Automobile Rome.

Speaker 2: Ah, there we go, okay, okay.

Speaker 3: Now Now the one that closed up shop and was liquidated on July twenty fourth, nineteen seventeen was the Pullman Automobile Company. Oh, I never knew.

Speaker 2: They made cars of York, PA. Yeah, they famous for

their train cars.

Speaker 3: They made high end cars. They were apparently six times

the price of a forward back then, so they were really and apparently what happened was the plant manager in Detroit.

Now Pullman was based in York, PA. Who would imagine

a car company there. But anyway, they had a factory

here in The plant manager basically ginned the numbers. He

basically said that we have demand for these things. And

so they're building a bunch of cars and they just stockpiling them and then they went bankrupt because they had all of this inventory that nobody was buying something anyway, speaking of big money losses.

Speaker 2: Was a big war story back then.

Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, news of the week.

Speaker 3: All right, news of the week. So basically, we had

General Motors come out with their second quarter numbers and I think the big number that came out of it was one point one billion dollars that they lost and they were attributing it to the tariffs.

Speaker 2: Well, remember they made about one point eight billion in net profits, but they said it would have been a billion one higher if not for the tariffs. And I

would add a second thing too is remember as of now GM has broomed GM crews off the income statement and off the balance sheet and it was dragging them down by.

Speaker 3: About a billion a quarter.

Speaker 2: So that's gone. And they say everything dropped a billion

because of the tariffs. I would argue profits dropped two

billion when you take the GM cruise numbers or are there hundreds of millions?

Speaker 3: So as General Watters is basically saying, and they've said that they believe that the tariffs will affect them to the order of five billion dollars this year, Well what they said is it's going to increase costs five billion, and they think they can get about a third of that back by making changes, but still you're talking billions.

So to quote our friend Joe White who wrote this about the situation, and I want your reaction to this quote, GM plans to generate at least one point five billion dollars through a combination of workforce reductions, product program cuts, supply chain and manufacturing reshuffling, and price increases. Emphasis on

at least a five billion dollar tariff hit comes to about nine hundred dollars a vehicle spread across gym's global vehicle deliveries for twenty twenty four average across GM's three point two million North American deliveries, the tariff costs is one thousand, five hundred and fifty five dollars a vehicle.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Well remember when we had Mark Wakefield here

from alex Partners, they said about one thousand, seven hundred and fifty dollars across the board.

Speaker 3: So what happens to General motors in this market when they have to increase prices to a tune.

Speaker 4: Like that, I presumably sales are going to go down.

I mean, consumers are already experiencing severe sticker shock with the price of vehicles pre tariffs, and they're only going to get higher. I mean one thousand of vehicle, that's that's.

Speaker 2: Did I hear the product product changes? Do I hear decontenting?

Speaker 7: I hope not.

Speaker 2: I don't think you're going to see decontenting. Which you

will see is model simplification, maybe not as many variants.

I think you know they've also made these changes where they're taking the Cadillac Escalade out of the Arlington plant, moving it to the Michigan Orient plant, and et cetera, et cetera. I think that's what they're I'm guessing.

Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm living out there by that Orient plant, and it is massive. I mean Lordstown is massive along the

freeway in Ohio, but this thing is taking up just a huge footprint. And now you're shifting years from we

were going to do electric vehicles here to this combination.

And you have suppliers setting up planning to set up shop where the Palace of Uburn Hills used to be.

Just everything around there is under construction, and now from the top level on down, it's, uh, bring these vehicles and build them. Change what you're doing, set up a

whole different assembly process. I mean, it's a whole different

thing when you're building ice vehicles, So more power to them that.

Speaker 4: These large SUVs are their cash cows. So yeah, hopefully

that's a segment that buyer is not going to be as impacted.

Speaker 6: By it, that doesn't care about you know, fifteen hundred bucks.

Speaker 2: You know, they also are not too worried about fuel economies.

Speaker 4: So yeah, but you had Mary Barr also leaning into you saying Cadillac is staying the course on EV's, so they're not totally abandoning their prior commitments.

Speaker 6: But that's that goes to what started with evs, Right, We're going to do premium EV's first because that's the softest part of the market as people will pay the extra.

But what happens with what happens with the lower levels?

You know, do you do you keep building those or do you just focus on a higher level brand.

Speaker 5: Like they're tooled up. Pick the plants.

Speaker 2: They're going to make them. Now how many they make

will depend on what the market demand is. But I

don't see GM backing off a lot. Uh. You know,

clearly shifting orient from electric to ice is a.

Speaker 5: Big move, but partially they're going to do both.

Speaker 2: No, no, no ice plant. No, it's it's pure ice plant.

But the last thing I read was that they were going to do a little bit of.

Speaker 7: Each No Bob's in retirement mode.

Speaker 6: Now read that.

Speaker 3: So so speaking of this so on the subject of tariffs.

So this, this is on This is on the u a W website, and I want you to react to this, John, This is the U a W is deep angered by the Trump administrations announced trade deal with Japan. What we've

seen so far makes one thing clear. American workers are

once again being left behind. Well why do they say

that because of the fifteen percent tariff on Japanese vehicles versus the I don't know.

Speaker 7: Twenty five percent tariffs in it was supposed to.

Speaker 3: But Canada and Mexico don't have you AW worker right.

Speaker 5: So why would the union care about that?

Speaker 2: I mean, I found that very curious that they came out against you know, Trump lower it. Well, he's raising

the tariff on Japan, but it's lower than when he first had to put on. But it's like the Detroit

Three are very much against that because they're.

Speaker 5: Going, who whoa, wha who who whoa.

Speaker 2: You're letting the Japanese come in with a fifteen percent tariff. Meanwhile,

we've got operations in Canada and Mexico that are bringing in vehicles with tons of American content in them, whereas the stuff from Japan has now got an advantage and it doesn't have any American content.

Speaker 3: So maybe this is the answer to your question. It

goes on to say, quote, a better deal would have held Japanese automakers to the same standards US workers have fought for at gm Ford and Stlantis. Living wages, quality

health care, secure retirements, job stability, and the freedom to form unions without intimidation.

Speaker 2: Well, I would say, go organize them, Sean. No.

Speaker 3: But the thing is is that is Sean is he saying though that in Japan?

Speaker 7: No.

Speaker 2: No, what he's saying is that Japanese companies operating in the United States Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda.

Speaker 3: Subaru, So they don't have living wages. Well, if they

don't have quality healthcare, they don't have secure retirement relative.

Speaker 2: That is uaw hyperbole. Those jobs pay very well for

the regions that they're in. If you go to Kentucky

or Alabama or Georgia, the Caroline or whatever, and you a job in any of those quote unquote foreign plants, you're going to be making the best hourly wages. That

is anywhere in the region there are they as high as UAW jobs. No they're not, but they're awfully good.

Speaker 6: And it's what is it called inshoring on shoring, you know, moving all this work to those locations is you know, it's the equivalent of moving it to Mexico where those people make far less, but it's way more than they would have made in any other work.

Speaker 5: Yeah.

Speaker 2: But look, when it comes to Mexico, there's no question the workers there have been held back, you know, with government run unions that never really fought the car companies for better wages. And that's why so much production's gone

to Mexico is because the labor it was so cheap and you can get it, which is a growing problem in this country. It's hard to get manufacturing labor.

Speaker 3: All right. So moving on to a topic we haven't

talked about it this entire show. This astonishes me. Tesla.

So they came out with their Q two numbers. Their

net income compared to last year was down sixteen point three percent, the revenue was down fall percent. Deliveries were

down thirteen point five percent. Elon said, and I quote

we probably could have a few rough quarters. I'm not

saying we will, but we could.

Speaker 5: No, he will, that's easy to say.

Speaker 2: Look at the big drop that they had in regulatory credit income. It fell about in fifty percent compared to

a year ago. It even fell compared to the first quarter.

Even though Tesla sold more cars in the second quarter, their regulatory credits went down.

Speaker 3: And so this means what they're selling to other car companies correct, So you get zero mission vehicle credits.

Speaker 2: So if another company misses its target, it can buy credits from a company with a surplus like Tesla, or they can pay a fine. But everybody prices their their

credits just below what the fine is, so it's cheaper to buy the credits from another car company. And we

know in the United States all of that is going to go away one hundred percent. I'm not sure when

I'm guessing it's at the end of September. So they'll

have some of those numbers in the third quarter, and they will still get some regulatory credits in Europe. But

this is a significant source of income for Tesla. And

if you took that number out, just pretended in the second quarter Tesla didn't get any of those.

Speaker 3: It's.

Speaker 2: Net profit who would have fallen not quite in half, but close.

Speaker 4: I almost mentioned that the white light interior trend is driven by Tesla, so I could have mentioned Tesla earlier, but I didn't.

Speaker 3: So I mean, what do you see happening with them?

Speaker 4: I mean, definitely there's going to be some rough quarters ahead.

Speaker 7: But I saw a.

Speaker 4: Quote earlier post earnings results, and I think it's very true.

It's not so much about Tesla declining. It's about the

legacy automakers improving their beds, you know that. I think

that's really the challenge for them. I mean, obviously this

is a huge source of income they're going to be losing with the regulatory credits. But in terms of like

the appeal of the vehicles, I think they have less appeal than they ever have because you know, for so many years their vehicles had the longest ranges, the best charging experience, the most modern technology, you know, and now you've got everybody else catching up, and there's formidable competition now.

Speaker 2: In fact, we were talking about the HOUNDI Ionic nine. Yeah,

it's got the next connector in it already. In fact,

we were not able to charge it at this building because we've got the old J seventeen seventy two plug.

But we have thanks to our great friend Tom Malagny, who knows everything about charging. He sent me one of

the adapters because I emailed him to say, hey, we we got to get in an adapter. What do you recommend?

He goes, I got so many lying around the shop, I'll just mail you one. So thank you Tom. But

getting back to that your point, other automakers are catching up.

Now we're seeing rolling off the assembly line evs with NAX connectors exactly.

Speaker 4: And now you know, no matter, even if you don't have a Tesla, you can go to a Tesla supercharger and charge your vehicle.

Speaker 6: So and have a vehicle with good brane and good technology and high style, high style, right beautiful interiors and uh you know what's the last new Tesla fiber truck?

Speaker 5: Oh yeah, oh geez. And that is a complete sales disaster.

Speaker 2: Brilliant engineering piece, I mean brilliant, but a total complete market flop. The one thing I do want to add

to Tesla before we'll move on to another topic is if you compare it to a year ago, everything looks terrible.

If you compare it to the prior quarter. They made

substantial improvements. Now, having said that, some of their plants

were down for model turnover, but they were only down a couple of weeks. Nonetheless, I think it did show

an improvement over.

Speaker 5: The first quarter.

Speaker 3: Okay, so here is I think the most compelling number, which has nothing to do with Tesla's earnings report yesterday, comes from the California Auto Dealers Association, which has it that in the first half of twenty twenty five, Tesla's sales are down eighteen point three percent. This is their

biggest market by far, and they're down by nearly a fifth.

Speaker 2: Yeah. This ain't good, No, not at all. But I

think you can lay all that at Elon's lap, or most of it, you know, his political work and the Doge stuff, you know, infuriated so much of his customer base and they're not coming back.

Speaker 7: Yeah, it's great business.

Speaker 4: One O one is don't install your customers.

Speaker 6: And meanwhile, like every other automaker, you can't rely on China to fill the coffers because.

Speaker 5: Yeah, and that trigger's thought.

Speaker 2: GM has now put three profitable quarters together in China, and its sales in the first half or up twenty percent in China. So I'm starting to think to your

point of, you know, other automakers coming out with competitive evs against Tesla, I think we're going to start to see the foreign automakers really start to fight back in China.

Well they get to where they were before it, No, but I think they're going to be able to pick themselves up more than so.

Speaker 3: You're suggesting the Western automakers, the BMW's the General motors, the.

Speaker 2: Western plus Japan plus South Korea. But yeah, the the

foreign automakers. But yeah, I think you know, when BMW

gets this new class EVS in the market, I think they've got a much better chance in China. GM. I

mean this, we haven't seen it in this country. But

it's the Sean.

Speaker 5: What's that the Elite?

Speaker 2: What was the buick that we've been.

Speaker 3: About.

Speaker 2: The Electra Yeah, the Electra S seven L seven, Electra L seven Okay, by the specs. This thing is terrific,

all electric at nine hundred volt system. Oh it's an

e REV. I thought it was a BEV version too. Anyway,

The point I'm getting to is the foreign automakers who sort of sat on their hands and thought they had it made in China got slapped in the face three years ago when they came back to China after not having traveled there because of COVID, and we're shocked, literally shocked at what they saw. Three years later, they're starting

to get products out there in the market. So anyway,

you said China and that no mentioned your.

Speaker 3: Woolong Mini or whatever the hell that was. That you're

your favorite car? What was your yeah?

Speaker 5: Yeah, Mini, Yeah, the Mini ev.

Speaker 2: No. I think it's really cool from a low cost

design standpoint, the you know, four dollars come on.

Speaker 3: Big, low cost design. You segue right into our last topic, okay, slate, Okay,

your your one of your new favorites. Okay. So they're

coming out with a vehicle. Now they've had to adjust

their price upward because of the loss of the seven hundred undred dollars tax credit. So then now they're on

their website, it's the mid twenties for a compact pickup truck.

Speaker 7: Bare bones.

Speaker 3: Bare Bones's got one seat, you know, two doors, so crank rank windows. Okay. So here's my question. How can

they make a vehicle at that price point and make money when apparently the traditional OEMs, which are superb truck manufacturers can't.

Speaker 2: Well, I think they can. I'll bet Ford makes money

on the Maverick, and it's about the same price.

Speaker 3: The flight now above thirty, right, I think the.

Speaker 2: Base price is around twenty eight. Yeah, so it's about

the same price as the truck slate. Now, I mean,

the Maverick's got far more content than the slate truck does.

But it remains to be seen whether they can make money slate on that truck. But remember, no paint shop.

The thing comes unpainted. That's saved hundreds of millions of

dollars in capital investment. There's no body shop to speak of.

You know, it's got a ladder frame and you knowbody construction, and all the panels are molded plastic polypropylene, by the way, which is about the cheapest plastic that you can buy.

So again, they saved one hundreds of millions of dollars in upfront body shop costs and stamping, dies and all that that other automakers would pay to do the same thing.

So the key for me for Slate is they've tooled this plant or are tooling this plant to build They say one hundred and forty thousand vehicles a year that's an ambitious sales target, especially with the seventy five hundred dollars tax credit con that just made their lives way way more complicated. Although having said that, Chris Barman, the

CEO of Slate, said, our business plan from the get go did not include the seventy five hundred dollar So we'll see. It's it's going to be a tough road

for them, but I wish them the best, all.

Speaker 3: Right, Christy. So the top of the show, we talked

about all these very nice interiors on vehicles. This basically

is going to have an interior that's.

Speaker 5: Okay.

Speaker 3: So from what you know of this interior, is this going to be something that consumers are going to want to have? Now? Chris Berman said that new college grads,

new drivers, retirees, and tuners are going to probably be the bulk of the market at least at the beginning. Okay,

so absent them, Okay, college grads, you know, still paying off big debts. New drivers, well, I'm not so sure

that new drivers.

Speaker 2: I don't think.

Speaker 6: I think that's a missed mark because I don't know parents want to put their new drivers into the biggest damn suv they.

Speaker 3: Call the equipment, all the safety equipment, fixed income tuners, yeah, I.

Speaker 4: Would think a commercial buyer would be the more likely, you know, small business.

Speaker 7: But you know, hard to believe.

Speaker 4: There's people out there that don't care about cheeriers and don't care about beautiful surfaces and ambient lightings, the sixty four color ambient lighting systems and Dolby atmost and all that.

So I yeah, they'll they'll be a market for whether it's one hundred and forty thousand buyers a year, I think, yeah, is it have a radio?

Speaker 2: No?

Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean there are golf carts that are better equipped than this.

Speaker 3: But do you think any why he's gonna buy them? Bomb?

Speaker 5: What saying?

Speaker 3: Do you think anyone will buy them?

Speaker 2: Some of those categories?

Speaker 6: Might?

Speaker 2: I could see tuners having a blast.

Speaker 6: I could see a parent who didn't think about you know, who just wanted to put some wheels, new wheels under their new driver.

Speaker 2: They might, but uh, okay, but why wouldn't they Okay, why wouldn't they buy.

Speaker 3: The key a K four, which would be.

Speaker 4: Well, there's utility with this as a truck, you know, yeah, trunk.

Speaker 7: Yeah, nobody's buying cars anymore.

Speaker 2: I mean, I believe the appeal of the Slate is going to be it's simplicity, it's bare bones nothing, it's crank windows, it's lack of a center screen. I think

that is actually going to appeal to a certain.

Speaker 5: Type of buyer.

Speaker 7: It's just going to go.

Speaker 2: It's like remember when the original Hummer came out, not the GM one, when they took the military one and forget the price.

Speaker 5: People loved that. It was so basic, it was.

Speaker 2: So military, it was, you know, the antithesis of everything on the road that that needed appealing to those buyers because it was so different. And I think that's what

the Slate will do. Will it do it in the

right numbers to fill up that plant? I'm not sure,

but I think people are going to flip when they see the truck and just think it's cool.

Speaker 3: Okay, five years, you know, will slate exist?

Speaker 5: I think yes.

Speaker 3: But as as slight and independent, I think.

Speaker 5: That it will be bought. Yes.

Speaker 7: Well get Bob's cornhole games.

Speaker 6: Yeah, so I got to get out there, Bob, ninety four degree weather.

Speaker 3: Thanks for coming on yeah again?

Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, good.

Speaker 5: You'll be great having you here.