A used electric vehicle marketplace is a place where people can buy and sell second-hand electric cars. It's like a store for used electric cars where you can find better prices than buying new.
An EV tax incentive is a way for the government to help people save money when they buy electric cars. It reduces the amount of taxes you have to pay, making the car cheaper overall.
EV Otto is a company that sells used electric cars and hybrids. They are one of the first businesses in the U.S. to focus only on these types of vehicles.
Used electric vehicles are cars that run on electricity and have been owned by someone else before. They are becoming more popular as people want to drive cars that are better for the environment.
EVs stands for electric vehicles. These cars run on electricity instead of gasoline, making them better for the environment because they don't produce harmful emissions.
A used EV tax credit is money that the government gives back to people who buy used electric cars. It helps lower the price they pay, making electric cars cheaper than regular gas cars.
New cars are cars that have never been owned before. They are sold straight from the factory or car dealerships and usually have the newest features and warranties.
Depreciation is how much a car loses its value as it gets older. New cars lose value quickly, especially in the first few years, which is why used cars can be a better deal.
A used car is one that has been owned by someone else before. They usually cost less than new cars and can be a better deal because they don't lose value as quickly.
The Tesla Model 3 is a type of car that runs on electricity instead of gasoline, which means it’s better for the environment. It’s known for being fast and having cool technology, like a big touchscreen inside. Many people like it because it can go a long way on a single charge.
Retail price is the amount of money you pay when you buy something from a store or dealership. For cars, it's the price you see when you go to buy a new or used vehicle.
Word of mouth marketing happens when people talk to their friends or family about a product they like, which can help sell more of that product. It's especially strong for things like electric cars, where owners are excited to share their experiences.
The Tesla Model Y is a popular electric SUV made by Tesla. It's known for being efficient and having a lot of modern technology, making it a favorite among electric car buyers.
Car
Tesla
Tesla is a company that makes electric cars. They're popular for their technology and eco-friendly design.
ICE vehicles are cars that run on gasoline or diesel fuel. They're the regular cars most people have been driving for a long time before electric cars became popular.
A 450 mile battery means the electric car can drive up to 450 miles before it needs to be recharged. This is important for people who want to travel long distances without stopping to charge.
Self-driving means a car can drive itself without needing a person to control it. Some cars can do some driving tasks, but they still need a human to take over sometimes.
The BMW 7 Series is a luxury car that is very comfortable and has a lot of high-tech features. It's designed for people who want a nice ride with plenty of space.
The Toyota Prius is a special kind of car that uses both gas and electricity to help save on fuel and reduce pollution. It looks a bit different from regular cars, and many people choose it because it’s good for the planet and can save money on gas. There are also versions that you can plug in to charge, which makes them even more efficient.
A plug-in hybrid is a car that can run on electricity and gas. You can charge it at home, and it can drive a certain distance using just electricity before switching to gas.
Appreciated means that the car's value has gone up since it was bought. Some cars can become worth more money over time, especially if they are rare or in great condition.
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When you were evaluating building the dealership, what were some of the things that you were considering as part of your business model to say, like, yeah, this is going to be a viable business for me? Yeah, I mean, when Logan called me, close friends and previous business partners, and talked about the difficulty finding the used Tesla, and the thought was, is creating a marketplace for other people to buy and sell, use the electric vehicle. You've been growing rapidly. What kind of challenges and maybe surprises come up as you,
look to expand the footprint of the business. You look historically at EVs, they already were the most volatile asset in automotive history, but, yeah, I mean, they're very hard to predict. You know, it's a very unique product, but I think it's, you know, pretty similar startup journey to most businesses that are doing something new and different. There's a lot of opportunity there, and also there's a lot of unknowns that can create a pretty intense roller coaster ride. I know a lot that are going to be tuning in, want to know what?
What the heck is Alex doing about the EV tax incentive? Let me be clear. Look, I've been seeing the same thing as Jimmy for a long time. One of the things that I enjoy most about producing the dealer playbook is hearing from you. The messages that I get of people who are getting so much value out of the podcast, applying it to their day-to-day workflows and finding a thriving career right here in the retail auto industry. It means the world to me. And you know, one of the ways that we make doing this possible is through my agency flex.
And of course, in the spirit of providing value, I think this is a perfect time to head over to tripledw.flexdler.com to show even further support for you, my beloved DPB gang. Right now, if you go to my website flex.dealer.com, you can get a full free PDF of my number one bestselling book. Don't wait, dominate. And the reason I think it's so special is that a lot of the topics that are discussed in this book are even more relevant today than ever with this.
Surgeon popularized AI and people wondering, well, what can I do next? How can I have a competitive advantage? Well, that's all here in this book.
And so I'd love to be able to offer you a free copy of this. If you go to flex.dealer.com, it would mean the world to me because that is how we continue to produce this show for you.
Alex Lawrence is a serial entrepreneur tech veteran and tenured professor who co-founded EV Otto, one of the USA's first dealership groups dedicated exclusively to use DVs and plug in hybrids.
A long time technology executive and current associate professor at Weber State University teaches courses on sales technology and AI while investing in startups and advising companies.
Now he's been on the show before. We know a little bit about the stories frustrated by his own difficult defining use Tesla.
So he launched EV cars dot com in 2019 with co-founder Logan Woolly and turned it into a physical dealership chain that now sells premium EVs from Teslas.
Rivian lucid and so much more just open a new location. I heard in Tennessee. Alex, my man, thanks so much for coming back and joining me on the dealer playbook.
Thanks for inviting me. I appreciate it.
There's so many things I want to talk to you about just from a practical life perspective because I think there's so much wisdom to be offered there, especially with this kind of a resume.
But I do want to get into the EV thing because I think so many people in the industry are concerned and are thinking about it.
Maybe where I want to start. So recently had Jimmy from plug our friend Jimmy on the show. We talked about how half of the dealers in the United States are not participating in EVs.
He specifically talked about the used EV market and and it was that conversation where I was like, dude, I got to get Alex back on the show.
We were at time of recording that episode just ahead of the tax incentive going away. So I want to talk to you about that. But I think to start, he said something really important.
He's like, in order to do well with used EVs, especially, you have to go all in on used EVs. And I mean, that's that's the entire business model.
When you were evaluating building the dealership, what were some of the things that you were considering as part of your business model to say like, yeah, this is going to be a viable business for me.
Yeah. I mean, when Logan called me close friends and previous business partners and talked about the difficulty finding a used Tesla and said, hey, I think there's a market for that.
I immediately said, yeah, I've been looking to and just kind of dinkin' around and yeah, it's not easy.
So the original plan was EVcars.com, which we acquired. It wasn't just a domain that was available. We had to pay up for it.
And the thought was is creating a marketplace for other people to buy and sell, use electric vehicles. And you know, Logan and I are at a stage in life and career where we didn't want to do something small.
And so the stated public private, whatever, nobody cared back then, goal was to be the largest marketplace in the world for used electric vehicles. So that's why we paid up for EV cars and EV trucks and all these great domains.
So we started on that path. And in order to really understand our paying customer, it was dealerships, you know, free for private sellers pay, dealers pay, just like they pay, you know, cars.com or whatever to list their cars.
And so I had never been a dealer before. Obviously, I had never been in the car business, which is not totally true. My first business ever was a car detailing business when I was six.
Yeah, so first business and last business, I like to say not to sound too dramatic. But, you know, again, there's so many things that have happened here that till I don't want to say like, you know, destiny or whatever, but we're talking, yeah, man, I've got an old dealer's license. I said, what?
What did you have? Well, I missed out on that stage anyway. So long story short, we dusted it off. I started, you know, signing up for software tools and shipping and auctions and all these things to learn how dealers work so I could speak their language and understand their pain points.
And for a year and a half, we built the marketplace. And I was buying and selling used Tesla's and then it kind of dawned on us. So I wait a minute. Maybe maybe there's a different business we should focus on.
You've been growing rapidly. I mean, I feel fortunate. I was able to step into your Lehigh location, which I mean is a vibe. It's a vibe.
I mean, the lions of vibe, right? Yes. I mean, just everything from the snacks and the kind of the man cave, you know, I walked out of it.
We call it the billionaire's garage. Yes, I love it. I was like, and this is the kind of office I want when I build an office. You know, it was like just that kind of a vibe.
I felt good in there. I felt like I could breathe in there. Everything was was really as chill.
But you've been growing rapidly. What kind of challenges and maybe surprises come up as you look to expand the footprint of the business because you've got, is it four locations now?
Three, but we've we've got our fourth. We haven't announced yet. And then there's some more that we're working on.
You know, it's interesting. I mean, if you look historically at EVs, they already were the most volatile asset in automotive history.
There's been two times when the market has been rocked. And the use of the tax credit is the third time.
And so when people, I mean, some of them are haters of like your businesses, you're going out of business after the media tax credit ends, you know, and I say, well, you know, been doing this for six years, been through to really rocky changes.
This one might be the most rocky in some ways. I actually don't think so, because the previous two were associated with these massive price drops and massive depreciation that was immediate and overnight.
And that's a pretty tough thing. This one we've seen coming for a long time. Yeah, we've got some strategies that may or may not work. But I'm kind of like, yeah, this is the game I've been in.
You know, it's another day in the office where it's like crazy train for a little while. But yeah, I mean, they're, they're very hard to predict, you know, it's a very unique product.
You know, we're doing a lot of things that are new or never been done. Maybe even that creates opportunity and challenges.
But I think it's, you know, pretty similar startup journey to most businesses that are doing something new and different. There's, there's a lot of opportunity there. And also, there's a lot of unknowns that can, can create a pretty intense roller coaster ride.
So we're going to dig into some of the things going around your mind as far as this new challenge. But before we do that, I want to ask, I just find it so impressive that, you know, you've, you've, you've got all the accomplishments that you have under your belt, a lengthy resume, still actively teaching.
So much of what you're doing with Yviyato becomes a case study and a real world validator for the, for your students, all of it.
You know, I get asked pretty frequently. So either you're not teaching at Weber State anymore. Are you, are you still teaching at Weber State? And the answer is an emphatic yes, because I feel an obligation.
I mean, they pay me and I love my students. And I get a lot out of it. So it's not a one way street. It's a two way street. But, you know, it's a good opportunity for me to kind of put my money where my mouth is.
You know, obviously it's, it's a lot bigger financial opportunity outside of teaching.
But I do, I feel, an obligation might be too strong, but word, but I, I feel like it's really valuable that I can say to my students, hey, this thing we're talking about today, I did it yesterday.
So I'll give you an example. I mean, I teach in a sales program, the professional sales program. It's one of the oldest in the country. It's a four year degree in sales. I passionately believe that it's one of the degrees that they get a high ROI on. It's affordable.
Like almost every student something like 99% they won't let us say 100 I think get really good jobs. And so when people are hating on academia and higher education for, you know, too expensive, they don't get good jobs, they go into debt.
Yada, yada, yada, that's not our program. And so, but I can say to them like I did this week. Some of them might get sick of hearing about it, but I don't think so. I can say, hey, guess what, we did over a million dollars in sales in one day this last week.
And let me tell you about what that was like. And even better, I have video of it. They can go watch if they really want to because all of it's documented online. And so, yeah, I'm using the AI tools and sales. I mean, this is a sales business.
And so, and the university is super supportive. They're awesome. But when I'm in class, I'm in class. I'm focused. And I teach two semesters a year. I teach two mornings a week.
But I'd be live. I didn't say it's a real challenge to do both. And I'm going to for the foreseeable future because I love it. And I feel like it's good for my students.
There's a side, there's a joke in here somewhere too. Like that you might, you might actually be the only dealer that has a real PhD. Not like, like, if, if your children get into the business, they'll have a PhD. They'll have the Papa had a dealership. But I think it's so inspiring.
A quick, funny story. I had no idea. But, you know, I'm pretty, a PhD was the most miserable experience in my life that I like chose to do. I've had worse things happen. I hated it. It was terrible. I love the people that I met, but I was not good at it. I'm not being humble. I was not good. I had a higher tutor. It was a real struggle.
And so, you know, I'm proud of it, right? And you know, my LinkedIn says Alex Lawrence PhD. And I think I should. I think that's fine. And, but I don't make call me doctor even my students. It's like, call me Alex. And so, but when I first cut into business as a dealership owner, people would say, oh, PhD. And I'd be like, man, I worked hard for that. Why are you laughing? And then I learned you'll probably had a dealership was a thing. And I'm like, yes.
So yeah, I think we need shirts actually with your face, like a cool graphic to you with your face. That's that's like the actual PhD.
That's the last thing this world needs.
I want it for my own vision. I think, look, it is so inspiring. And I think absolutely you work hard for something like that. Then, yeah, you got to put it on there.
And what's inspiring about it is the commitment that you have to be able to do the hard thing. It is a proof point to the thesis that we all talk about, but have very few real life indicators of, like, you do a hard thing.
You do the thing that nobody else is willing to do. You get the outcome that nobody else will, you know, get to experience in a lot of ways.
Say, man, I want to teach. I want to do that. What do I need to do? I said, well, just go get a PhD in your PhD.
And you're fine. You know, I mean, it requires a real PhD. No offense, but I didn't do like a university of Phoenix online.
I feel the local estate for years to attend class there. And so, and that was important to me too, that I picked a real one, you know, that with Stan scrutiny.
And, but anyhow, it's essentially it's allowed me to teach and get tenure and feel like, you know, I'm sort of accepted by the academic world.
I think so I'm still, I mean, nobody by name I can think of it. I kind of like, well, what's this guy's deal? You know, but that's okay.
I mean, just the, I have a pal, actually, I'm in my congregation, young guy who's working on tenure and, you know, talking to me about, and he's in finance.
He teaches economics or finance or something at a university here in Texas. He's younger than me.
The number of papers that he has to write and contribute and articles and I think that's why I'm so impressed by it.
In addition to your actively building a business with all of the crazy plate spinning that happens in the EV market dealing with legislation, marketing, people development.
You know, just it's just super impressive. And I think it's important to put an exclamation point on it's one of the things that I just feel so inspired by you and getting to observe you.
I mean, and also like, can we add social media celebrity in there? That happened.
Yeah, that's, I mean, when I think about it objectively, I understand it because I like to watch people on social media operate their business authentically and behind the scenes. I enjoy that personally.
So step back and go, hey, I'm this 51 year old dad in Utah, like, who wants to watch me? I go, no, I get it. People, you know, want to watch how you run a cardio ship and how you, you know, especially since, you know, I, it's just turn on the camera and show you what's going on. Good, bad, and ugly.
I mean, we do edits privacy out. I don't, you know, there's some strategic things and stuff that all of it gets filmed. I got a camera right here permanently. I got my full time camera, camera guy outside.
And so it's running almost all the time. But yeah, it's, that's been a slog too, man. I mean, I think I've been posting for four years.
And for a very long time, I nobody less than nobody paid attention. It was cringy and, and you just have to keep, keep grinding. And then I would say, I mean, maybe a year ago, it really started to catch on and, and it's an absolutely critical part of our business.
And that's what I tell myself, hey, it sells cars. And, you know, a younger Alex with a different ego and stuff would have been excited about being recognized and, and those kinds of things that, the more mature Alex that's in a, in a better place is like, hey, it sells cars.
And, and I really enjoy meeting people. And, and it's, it's still every once in a while kind of mind blowing to me, you know, when we have tourists that, that just stop in to, to meet and take pictures. And when I get asked for my autograph.
And, and when I'm recognized in Greece and in Turkey, on a vacation with my family, like that, I'm just like, what the heck? But then I look at the analytics and go, wow, 25 million people watch that those videos, you know, last week or whatever. I guess it makes sense, you know, so anyhow.
I think, I think it's, it's impressive because to your earlier point, it's authentic. And something that the world is missing, especially in the social sphere is that real behind the scenes look at, yes, you're seeing what I'm posting, but what I'm posting is a real life depiction of running a business and everything that goes along with it.
We're not sugarcoding it. I even love how you preface with I've been posting for four years. And here we are now. I don't think a lot of people understand that that's often how it looks. It's how it does look, man. I everybody I talk to that wants to do it. I'm like, first, you got to realize this is a long term commitment.
Second, the algorithm, you got to be posted all the time. Third, you got to realize you're going to post stuff that's cringy and ink and work and you just got to keep at it. And so if you're really serious about it, it's going to take a while. Now it's going to take four years, probably not.
You know, but, but also there's a wall. I mean, look, cardio ships all in the sudden, everybody wants to be on social media. And everybody's trying to figure it out. And so the number of people that are trying to do it has gone up dramatically in even six months. And so it's going to be harder to get noticed for sure.
Crazy.
I want to shift gears. I know a lot that are going to be tuning in want to know what the heck is Alex doing about the EV tax incentive, especially from your vantage point, because you are all in like Jimmy talked about earlier, you know, when I spoke with him.
We're talking like 50% of dealers are not even I know that they're just kind of like get when he originally sent me the stat it was like 59% of dealers are not participating in any way with EVs.
At a time of recording, he said that went down to 49%. So we're like half half of dealers are like, I can't be bothered with it. His advice was, well, if you're going to do use DVs, especially you need to go all in on use DVs. There's no lukewarm. Well, here you are.
I know you've been to Washington DC. I know you've met with regulators and you've advocated for EV incentives and those sorts of things now that it's gone and and, you know, as many would say the crap hit the fan.
What are you thinking about in terms of your business and the EV market at large there.
Let me be clear. I advocated so I'm a capitalist, you know, I don't like government intervention in business, but I follow the same language that Elon says out of this side.
Well, talking about both sides of your mouth is a bad thing, but out of out of this stance, it's like, yeah, I think the credit should go away out of the other side.
Why don't you take some of the gas car ice incentives that are billions of dollars that with it. And the reality is is that's not going to happen because EVs are a political poker chip or a hot potato.
It's unrelated to, it's, it's hate for Biden, hate for that administration, like that's the right word. And look, I'm not a fan of that administration.
And so I don't have hate, but not a fan. And so I get it, but when I was advocating, I was saying, look, if you're going to take it away, take away the others if you're not going to leave it.
I also was advocating that, you know, a lot of them were painting it as a picture for rich people that don't need discounts.
And, and obviously it benefits me the user versus the new one. But as objectively as I could say, I'm like, I think that's true for new cars because the limits $300,000 for income to get a $7,500 discount. Those people don't need it.
But the limit on use is $75,000 for a $4,000 discount. And I've seen it hundreds of times, the alternative without it because they use that $4,000 as a down payment is they can get financed at a reasonable interest rate and not get a buy here, pay here, gas car that's going to be very expensive to operate.
So the group they got punished was the group that needs reliable transportation the most and a reasonable interest loan the most rate loan the most.
And so I was trying to get that message across, but I knew it would work. I knew it would work.
Yeah, they had already got it so far in their heads. They're like, just squash it doesn't matter. Like I said, it's a political thing.
Not a who's who wins, who loses. It was a it was a place. So anyway, I knew it was going to go away. I also am not naive. I know that there's nothing else is going with it on the gas car side.
And it is what it is. I can't control it. So let me I wanted to file that disclaimer up front.
But knowing that it was going to go away, you know, there are two two parts of the strategy. One, how do we try and maximize it.
And I can tell you the story about that because we nailed it. And I still can't believe how we.
We sold our last car at 1140 pm. And so I mean, that you couldn't have predicted it more.
But you know, what are we doing after? You know, I can talk to you about that too.
Yeah. Okay. Well, I got it. I got to know.
Was it like lineups? How do people like I got to get in under the wire? Yeah.
I mean, and it wasn't just the last day. It was leading up to it. And that's what we thought would happen.
And so I think we sold almost 40 cars on the last day. Like I said, the last one.
And let me tell you, talk about social media. We had three left at about 10 o'clock.
And I turned on the camera and went live on five different networks. And we sold those last three because of social media.
And you know, to follow the rules, you have to have a deposit, you have to have a signed contract on a real then.
So two of them actually were local. They were watching live. They drove down here and signed docs at 11 o'clock at night.
And the other was in California. But if I didn't have that platform, we all, I don't, we wouldn't have sold those. But we sold the last one.
And so we, I mean, it's hard to even believe this, but we predicted demand for us perfectly, right?
Because we couldn't do anymore. And so yes, there was more people that wanted to, but we literally couldn't do anymore because the clock was ticking.
And so, I mean, it was a really exciting. It was a very special day at top five day, probably that'll ever happen in company history.
Everybody was at work. Everybody was excited, cheering. It was a really high energy event.
But you know, the next day, October 1st, it's like, OK, that's, that was awesome. Everybody take a breather, take a break.
And we're still a little bit taken a break today. It was just so intense for that last week or two.
But now we execute part two of this strategy.
Hey, does your marketing agency suck? Listen, before we hop back into this episode, I know you know me as the host of the dealer playbook.
But did you also know that I'm the CEO of FlexDealer, an agency that's helping dealers capture better quality leads from local SEO and hyper targeted ads that convert.
So if you want to sell more cars and finally have a partner that's in it with you that doesn't suck, visit FlexDealer.com. Let's hop back into this episode.
I mean, I love the visual. You know, it's, that is as close to the equivalent of a black Friday at a Walmart where people are going to strangle each other for a 27 inch zenith that they got $29 off of, you know.
But in your terms, like, I think about there's so many things floating through my mind. I'm like, what motivates somebody to take action?
Psychological triggers around urgency and the fact that customers are willing to activate at 11 p.m. because this is that important to them.
And also one of the things that I tend to gravitate towards. Maybe it's my upbringing, my whatever beliefs, you know,
you've been prepared like you have put in the reps even even in terms of being ready on social media and posting for four years and finding a groove and testing and examining and all of that preparation over the years.
You know, it's inspiring to hear because I think a lot of people, this is where they miss, like getting the reps in and building that foundation so that when the time was appropriate, you can go live on five networks and social media does what it's supposed to do versus the people that are perpetually unprepared, don't want to put the reps in.
Just try to go viral, drop it like it's hot videos, all the things that they do, wondering why they're not going viral and there's no consistency, there's no strategy, there's no that to me is super interesting that like you said, because of social media, you were able to push it over the edge on three more units at 11 p.m.
Because of the reps that you put in that that nothing can replace.
Yeah, I mean, it's one of our biggest modes, I don't care how big of a deal or group you are and how much money you have, you can't buy authentic organic social interaction.
You literally can't, I mean, you could hire somebody that already has it and have them be your full time employee and they can bring some with them, but I mean, that's still going to be a rare challenge and so it's a big moat for us.
And honestly, it's a tough thing for them to do because I'm the owner and I let you see what goes on and a lot of these big dealer group owners, they're not going to do that.
And the reality is, some of those folks are just harder to relate to.
I'm building something from scratch, we are building something from scratch and that's easier to relate to and cheer for and follow along.
Then the dealer that owns 80 dealerships and is a third generation, that's just not as relatable and so I said they can't buy their way around it.
And so it's a huge competitive advantage for us.
The other, this is something that a lot of people don't know, but Carvana and others, they shut it down week or more before because the IRS came in and changed the submission criteria.
At the last minute with no notice, it was really a dumb move, I still can't, I can, they never answer their phones and reply to emails, so I have no idea what the IRS and all that.
And then the government shut down.
It couldn't be at a worse time. So for us, you know, never having taken a dime out of the business in six years and reinvesting every penny, you know, we don't have any flooring.
We own all of our cars and everything else free and clear.
I mean, the IRS owes me $600,000 right now.
And, you know, it, it's not ideal, but we've, you know, saved up our pennies and don't have flooring.
It's a lot of people, you know, tapped out because they couldn't, the flooring expenses would be too much if you got away to month for the IRS.
And look, I'm going to be riding them like a little pony to get paid, but we can handle it.
So we were able to generate millions of dollars in extra sales because we were ready for that.
And I'm really proud of our team for sacrificing and, and preparing so that we could keep the accelerator down all the way until the last minute.
I love it. I love it.
When's the book coming at night?
In my free time, I'm going to write a book.
Yeah, in your free time between teaching and running and expanding like crazy.
And being a dad, is it one of those things where you walk through the, this has happened to me in the past, and I've had to severely recalibrate.
You walk through the door from a business trip and your kids give you that weird, do we know each other?
Are we distant cousins like a family reunions? It's like you got to get to know each other again. And I'm like, I'm so sorry.
Yeah, I mean, look, I have a lot of, you know, look back, do differently feelings for sure. I was a really mediocre dad and husband for a long time.
And unfortunately my oldest is away at college. My other's 14.
And so one of them's not waiting for me to come home anymore. She's out on her own doing awesome things. And I'm really proud of her.
And my youngest is, you know, around for sure, but she's busy and friends are number one at that age and stuff.
And so I really am trying, you know, to make up for that.
And I hit the mark sometimes. I mean, my 14 year old, I went to dinner the other last night after I took her to her lesson.
And that was really special for me. And we go on vacations, not very frequently, but when we do, it's awesome because I'm able to have breakfast lunch and dinner with them.
And so yeah, I mean, it's, it's not a sexy answer, but I'm, but it's a real one.
Yeah, and I'm, I'm trying, but my wife who's put up with a lot for 25 years and is my ultimate co-founder and business partner. She's right there and knows what it takes and is all in and.
But it's, yeah, it's a never ending challenge really to try and be good at both.
Yeah, man, isn't that the truth? It's like, I'm thinking welcome to the club and you're now the spokesperson for it because I'm like, thank you.
And I'm sure a lot of people in the industry feel the same way.
And hopefully that gives them a little shimmer of hope.
I mean, that's something that we certainly try to advocate for on the podcast is, hey, this is what it really looks like.
I know echoing what you just said about your wife, any other woman this would not have turned out the way that it's turned out for me.
There's no question about it. Yeah.
I know people are dying to know, well, what's your pivot for the EV thing? Where's your mind at? What are you thinking about? What are some things that you're willing to share that they could consider to maybe help them move into this next phase of EV sales?
Yeah, I mean, look, I've been saying the same thing as Jimmy for a long time that, you know, and it's interesting that the reason that percentage went down is because of the used EV tax credit of dealers.
It's going to go back up because a lot of them have already left the market or will leave the market because that that easy money isn't there.
And there's not a lot of incentive to sell those over a gas car of a similar price.
And so who has was funny to watch how many flock to it they used to curse them.
And then they became there, they became their out for people they couldn't get financed, right?
Well, we can't get finance, but we can't over on the CV because we got a foreground down. So let us show you this.
And so, you know, I think that I know I'm going to be wrong. I just don't know how much I'm going to be wrong.
But, you know, the cars over 25,000 should have zero impact. They were never a participant in the credit.
And so, and I actually think those cars, they become a better deal because they never had $4,000.
But the new cars they were competing against had 7,500.
So, you know, there's already some companies, I think Hyundai or something said, hey, we're going to still knock down the price, 7,500 bucks.
And Tesla is doing this weird thing with the lease and stuff. But I don't know how long they can keep that up.
I think they're just trying to push through maybe the end of the year. And if they do keep it up fine.
But, but used above 25K is still a significant difference in price between that and a new one.
People that are trying to, and look, those new ones, they're still going to depreciate heavily when they buy them off the law.
And more heavily than their gas peers. And so, you know, all these used ones I sell, the depreciation's been, been built in.
And so, they're the beneficiary of that. So, I think people that are still, you know, I would say wise financial stewards of their money, not just people that are cheap or on a budget or can't afford it.
I still think used is, and that's true of gas cars too. I think used is a compelling offer.
You know, unless you just want a new car or the new car is dramatically different than the previous versions or whatever.
And there are plenty of people out there like that. So, they above the 25,000. I don't think a ton happens. I think actually you might even seem go up and value crazy enough.
But I don't know. The ones that are under 25,000, that's the million dollar question.
You know, there were cars that were inflated dramatically because of the free $4,000. There were also cars I think that were deflated. So, if you had a $26,000 test, so that was the death zone.
Because the difference between $26,000 and $24,999 was not $1,000. The difference was actually $6,000 because those cars go down to $21,000 or $20,500 and you're staying at $26.
So, cars that were there got pushed under to $24,999 because they would just sit.
And so I think those cars actually hold their value or go up because they're worth it. You know, a 2022 Model 3 long range all will drive with 30,000 miles. That's not a $20,500 car.
That's a $26,500 car and it's still a really good deal and it competes really well against its gas competitors.
The ones that got propped up a 2018 Model 3 long range all will drive with 80,000 miles was selling for the same price and that's a, that's a, you know, but, but again, at 20,000, it was still a good deal.
Right. Those ones lose value. Now, what I've been telling people and it's too late now, I don't think they're going to go down $4,000 in price. So, if you wanted one, you should have got one.
But for those that didn't want one or the timing wasn't right, there's still going to be cheaper retail price, but not as good if they qualified for the credit. The other thing is a lot of people want those cars that never qualified for the credit.
And so, you know, for them, yeah, for them, it is a better deal. It went from $24,999 to $22,999. So, better deal. So, I don't know what percentages of the market, what dynamic and stuff.
But the short story is I'm, I'm cutting down my inventory of $25,000 on less cars. And I'm going to wait to see what happens with the market before I build it back up. And so I bought more cars that are over 25,000.
You know, my sales monthly sales will go down. My monthly profit will go down. But this is the beauty of it. It's not going to stay there.
If you look at the used EV market, the growth of it's going to slow, and it's going to grow slower than it did last year, but it still grows.
You know, that line is going to continue to go like this up and to the right.
Right. And I would bet everything on that. And so because the people that have EVs, they love them, right. They tell people they love them. They try and convince their neighbor or their sister to buy a Tesla.
It's like this word of mouth marketing that I don't think it happens with any other gas car that's affordable. You might have the neighbor that'll try and get you to buy a Porsche Porsche, but, but that's an aspirational vehicle. Right.
It's about somebody I can't tell you how many hundreds of times that about a 26, $27,000 Model Y that can't stop talking about it. It's like you want to know how somebody does CrossFit. They'll tell you that you cross it.
It's a similar thing. You want to know somebody's got a Tesla. They'll tell you they got a Tesla. Right. And so I'm in this for the long haul.
It's for decades. And so a year from now, I think will be well positioned to handle like all the least returns that are going to come back.
The five million least returns that were taken advantage of at the beginning of the tax credit. Those are going to start coming back into the market.
And you know, I'm going to have a bunch of locations and the best reputation in America and the biggest social media presence as a dealer, I think, so that I can capitalize on that.
It's going to be very bumpy between now and then. And I'll just end by saying, most dealers should wait. Most dealers should wait. See what happens. Reenter the market with a head of steam when it's known.
Because if you don't got the stomach for it and you're not all in, it's going to be a hell of a ride the next six to 12 months.
I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. I think, well, it's like anything. I mean, not just EVs. If you're not going to go all in on something that just maybe don't for a minute, you know, take a breath until you realize your commitment level.
I mean, that makes so much sense to me and where my mind was going. I mean, my wife and I bought a Tesla.
And honestly, I mean, her favorite vehicle, she's ever owned.
I've heard that more times than I can. Look, I've had some people that are like, not for me. I got a good friend that we were saying is like, hey, not a return. He returned it or sold it went back to a Toyota camera or something. And that's okay. They're not for everybody. But yeah, the vast majority of people say what you just said.
Well, and the way I think about it too is we're talking about us a percentage of the market that felt maybe compelled to action be based on attacks incentive. Sure.
But there's millions and millions of cars being ice vehicles being sold right now with no tax incentives on them. And we're still going to buy those because it's the vehicle that we want in the same way.
And I think, well, there's obviously a percentage of the EV market myself included that when I bought it, I didn't even know the tax credit was a thing until my accountant told me.
And we bought it because that was just the vehicle that that we wanted.
Let me tell you, the ones that are going to fill the most pain are new nontestless.
I mean, because they're overpriced and they're under technology.
You know, and so, I mean, I drove a Lucid today and it's a beautiful car and it has got massage seats and it's got a 450 mile battery and it's remarkable the depreciation and the value you get.
I love it. Self driving is not nearly as good.
And so it's not as pleasant of a car to drive for me if I'm putting any miles on it. Now, I love it. And I and self driving is still good.
So I'm a big Lucid fan to be clear. I actually think they're incredible vehicles and I'm, but there's a whole bunch of other brands that have new EVs that are not remotely as close to a Lucid, but a newly lucid is also prohibitively expensive.
I'm going to use, I'm going to sell that one. It's the grand touring the 450 mile battery massage seats, massive backseat. It's got the screens that automatically it's like a big seven series BMW, you know, show her a kind of car.
I'm going to sell that car for in the 50s and it's got 20,000 miles on it.
So I mean, I'm just going to go to evy auto dot com.
It's 50 grand. That's a luxury sedan and it checks the 400 plus mile battery thing, which most people are like, you know, clear 400 miles or 500 miles, then it's, it's good for me. I'm like, well, here you go.
So anyhow, interesting.
What do you think about that Alex? Yeah, there's people right now driving $50,000 Toyota Prius is right when you get the all plug in hybrid version with all the bells and whistles, I think your, your approach in 50 grand at least.
Yep. And this car is 20,000 miles one owner, clean title, clean car facts, great battery. Like we do a test and I mean, there's no, there's no gotchas in this in this car.
I just bought another one. And I think I'm going to sell that one in the 40s.
It's got like 38,000 miles. I'll be high 40s. But yeah, once and people just don't know that they just don't know it.
Yeah, I've got a Porsche tycoon. Okay. And to be clear, these cars move slower because you're still, you know, in a price move slower, right?
I mean, we know with all cars, I think it's when you get above 30 something that the days on the lot go, go, I must it's some, you know, Lexus or Toyota or something.
Yeah.
So I've got a Porsche tycoon.
It, I have the sticker for it. The sticker was 218,000 dollars.
After tax license registration, the person was out the door probably close to 250.
It has every conceivable option, carbon fiber, it's this gorgeous chock gray.
It's in mint condition.
One owner, the only imperfection when it showed up is the door handle had a little rub mark on it, right?
Here's the, here's the deal. It has 92,000 miles. Okay.
So that is scary for a Porsche tycoon because those batteries are freakishly expensive.
But we offer an evyato specific battery warranty.
We tested that battery. We know that person, baby, that car, and it shows by its condition.
And so for 2500 bucks, we've got an unlimited year, unlimited mile battery warranty with a $250 deductible.
So I'm selling that car for $75,000, including the battery warranty.
Okay. And it is zero to 60 in two seconds. It's incredible to drive.
The strip are almost right. I mean, I don't know what the definition of that is.
And I'm just like, but I just heard through the ether. I heard.
Are you crazy?
Right.
There's no list on that car. And literally that part appreciated $175,000 in four years.
Wow.
That is still an expensive car, but it's accessible.
And so we're going to go into evyato.com.
Right.
Now, I'll either just want a little bit more for you, my friend.
Oh, okay. Okay.
You might have to just fly.
You know, if I text you, Alex, and I say,
I just bought a one way ticket to Utah from Dallas.
You know, what's about to go down?
Dude, I have such a lay down.
Yeah. When I saw another one, a TyCon earlier.
So what's interesting on that tax credit day?
I sold a TyCon.
I sold two cyber trucks.
I sold a ribion.
And I sold a couple of Model Y.
I mean, I sold cars that day that weren't tax credit worthy or even close.
So anyhow, I digress, you know, continues.
This is so enlightening. I feel inspired.
I feel hopeful. I feel educated.
Let's go.
I want to.
I want to thank you, man, for for sharing time with me today.
How can those listening or watching connect with you?
Yeah. I mean, the easiest way is to follow me on social media, probably.
And my username is Evie Auto Alex.
And that's TikTok, Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook and YouTube.
And you know, you'll get a pretty good idea of, you know, what it's like here.
And what I'm like.
And, you know, we don't put everything on camera.
But I think it's an authentic representation of who we are and how we roll.
And then of course, Evie Auto.com is where my inventory is.
And we ship nationwide.
We sell a lot of cars to people out of state because they trust us.
They know we're going to sell them the car we said.
And we're not going to have weird fees.
And we're going to back it up if there's an issue.
And so I'll stop my sales pitch there.
But really grateful that you had me really grateful for the people that are supporting us and cheering us on.
And already follow us.
And, you know, say a prayer for us the next, you know, a few months.
It's going to be a wild ride.
But I can promise you one thing.
We'll still be here.
I just got to point out.
Guys, if you know, who better to teach in a sales program?
Then the guy who who just so swavvy said,
I don't actually need to buy a one-way ticket to Utah because he can ship the vehicle to me.
Did anybody else take part of me?
That's just $700.
People think it's like, wait, what?
Yeah, that's right.
You got it, man.
I love it.
I love it, man.
Thanks so much for joining me on the dealer playbook podcast.
Great to be with you.
Thanks for having me.
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About this episode
Alex Lawrence, co-founder of EV Otto, shares insights on navigating the volatile electric vehicle (EV) market. He discusses the challenges and opportunities of selling used EVs, especially in light of changing tax incentives. With a focus on building a successful dealership that caters exclusively to used EVs, Alex emphasizes the importance of going all in on this market. He also reflects on his dual role as a professor and entrepreneur, highlighting the real-world applications of his experiences in the classroom. The episode is packed with practical advice for dealers looking to adapt to the evolving automotive landscape.
There’s something special about people who build where no blueprint exists.
My guest today, Alex Lawrence, is one of those people.
He’s a tech veteran, tenured professor, and serial entrepreneur who co-founded EV Auto, one of the first dealership groups in the U.S. dedicated entirely to used EVs and plug-in hybrids.
But what really stands out about Alex isn’t just what he’s built, it’s how he’s built it. With patience, conviction, and a willingness to play the long game while everyone else chases trends.
In this conversation, we get real about what it takes to grow an EV-only business through volatility, tax credit chaos, and all the unpredictable swings of an emerging market. Alex breaks down how he and his team literally sold their final cars minutes before the EV tax incentive expired, using the power of social media.
We also dive into:
Why authenticity on social media has become one of the strongest moats in business today.
The psychology of urgency, and how it can move people to take action at 11PM on a Saturday.
What it really means to juggle entrepreneurship, teaching, and family without losing your soul in the process.
Why the EV revolution isn’t dead, it’s just getting started.
Alex’s story is proof that doing the hard thing, the long thing, and the real thing still works.
If you’ve ever wondered what it looks like to build something meaningful when the market’s uncertain and the playbook doesn’t exist. this one’s for you.
