20,000 vehicles, that is a much bigger fleet than Waymo has right now at just 1,500 vehicles
and super high-end. So I don't know, there's a lot going on there, but I thought it was
interesting for those reasons. There are. There are. That was going to ask you about that aspect
of here. You're putting a much more expensive vehicle onto the Uber network. Do you see this as
something Uber would offer as a Uber Black or some sort of premium tier service?
Yeah. I think that was the most obvious play, that this would be a high-end option.
I mean, right now, I don't think a lot of people say, oh, I love Waymo. It's so great.
I tell people, you're getting into a really nice car. Don't forget that. The average Uber car is an
Uber X, Toyota Prius, a few years old. I think I looked it up the other day. It's $30,000 value.
So $75,000 versus $30,000, that's just the product you're sitting in alone. That's before
you even consider that, hey, there's no driver and all the great aspects that Waymo brings there.
So I do think there will be people willing right now. Waymo customers have actually shown.
I like their price point right now. It's about there was a report from a company called
Obi, and they said that Waymo is priced about 30% to 40% higher than Uber and Lyft in San Francisco,
and riders are willing to wait longer. So if I'm Waymo, why would I drop the price? I kind of like
having that high-end option for people who are willing to pay, who love the product.
And so I think you could kind of make that argument here with this Uber deal, where,
you know, Uber, they're not dumb. They know what they're doing. So I'm sure that they,
you know, kind of crunch the numbers. I'm guessing that they either think the
market is going to be so huge in six years, or they've got some outs, or maybe they don't have to
buy, you know, how these legal contracts can be. Maybe there's something where if they don't, you
know, absolutely hit every single metric and number, they only have to get 10,000 or 5,000,
whatever it might be. But yeah, 20,000 vehicles at $80,000 a pop seems like a lot to me. I would
be very surprised if they had that many on the road in six, seven, eight years.
No question. And kind of to mirror your skepticism from a moment or two ago, I definitely felt like,
you know, I'm old enough to remember the days when Uber said it was going to deploy 20,000
RoboTaxies in a partnership with Volvo. And I think that was 2016 or 2017.
Right. I should do an article about all the broken promises.
Right. Yes. Yes. I think, you know, you're exactly right. You know, Waymo,
the leader has 1,500 or so today. I'll believe 20,000 when I see them out there, but it's ambitious.
Yeah. And I think that's where it's this interesting conundrum, because if you look at
all the Waymo stats, I just featured, you know, they just hit 100 million paid driverless miles
and, you know, exponential growth on vehicles and number of miles and rides and everything.
If you look at that on its own, you know, you would sort of say that, wow,
Waymo is doing great. They're crushing it. But they only have 1,500 vehicles.
You know, I talked about, you know, Uber is doing 10 million trips a day in the United States
versus Waymo at just tens of thousands. Right. So they still have a ways to go.
And I think that's kind of where it's this interesting inflection point, because even
though Waymo is so exciting, they're still a very small percent and it's hard to grow.
It's hard to scale. I mean, lift themselves. They actually have a program called FlexDrive.
I know you interviewed Jeremy Bird in the past. I can't remember if you mentioned this or
not, but they own and operate 15,000 vehicles themselves. So they're the biggest fleet
owner right now, you know, you've never even heard about. So I think that is kind of
what makes it interesting. How does this deal fit into Uber's AV strategy overall from your
vantage point? It seems to be coming into sharper focus with each passing week in partnership
here. But how do you see this lining up for Uber? Yeah, I think they've actually been
pretty clear with their AV strategy. Dara has been out there, their CEO, Dara Kosrashahi,
Uber CEO has been out there sort of beating the drum at conferences and on podcasts and in the media
that they are basically open arms to everyone in the AV space. I think the argument that they are
making to AV players is that we have a ton of demand. We have all the millions of monthly
active users. You guys do the AV technology. You come to us, put them on our platform.
We know how to drive demand. We know how to do a lot of the back end stuff, the fleet operations,
you know, the behind the scenes, you know, all the nitty gritty parts of actually running a ride
hail business, you know, airport permitting, for example, right, all of that stuff, which I think
Uber has a fair case for it is a lot tougher than maybe meets the eye. And so I think it's
been pretty clear that they are basically open and willing to work with anyone, everyone,
Waymo, Neuro. They've been, you know, kind of courting Tesla and Elon Musk for a while,
but it seems like they want to go at it on their own, no shocker there. But and I think they also
have a compelling case. So I think that has been sort of Uber's AV strategy. And then the other
interesting thing is they're actually starting to make significant investments in companies.
So this deal particularly, they did $300 million investment into Lucid. And then I think Neuro's
president didn't say the number, but he said that Uber would also invest at least
$300 million into Neuro. That's kind of a significant investment. And so you can kind
of think about why is Uber, you know, they're open to partners, but now they're actually kind of
trying to move the needle. I think the reason is they benefit from a fragmented AV market.
But right now, there's only Waymo, you can only get a ride with Waymo. So I think,
you know, a lot of people have asked me the question, and we could get into this,
but why does Waymo need Uber? And, you know, there's an argument to be made that maybe
they don't. So if I'm Uber, I'm going to work like hell to sort of get these other
partners right up to that Waymo level so that now I've got other AV players, because I don't
think customers are going to download, they've already got Uber and Lyft on their phone. Okay,
I download Waymo. Maybe I download the Tesla app. Am I going to download Zooks? Am I going to
download Neuro? Am I going to download May Mobility? I got to download all these AV players
that are only operating in a few cities in warm weather places. And, you know,
I think it's much easier to just go to the Uber app and, you know, if an AV is available,
like in Austin and Atlanta, I grab one. If not, I get matched with a human driver and
I'm on my way.
Harry Campbell is a rideshare driver and host of the rideshare guy on YouTube.
You can hear his full conversation with her own Pete Bigelow on Shift,
a podcast about mobility. That's available now wherever you get your podcast.
That's daily drive for today. I'm Kellan Walker. Thanks to Automotive News executive producer
Jake Neer, as well as our own Larry Velquette and Lauren Siliff for their reporting for
today's podcast. You can get the latest news on rubble taxis, industry confidence,
and everything happening in the auto industry at AutoNews.com. Come back tomorrow for a
conversation with NADA executive vice president of public policy, Paul Mitre.
It's been super active and really a lot of public policy accomplishments have been
present in the first half of the year that we really think will benefit
franchise dealers and certainly their customers.
We'd love to hear from you. Let us know what you think of the show and the topics we cover today.
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About this episode
Automakers are feeling optimistic about current conditions but are increasingly pessimistic about future prospects, as highlighted by the new Auto Industry Confidence Index. Key issues include tariffs, customer confidence, and supply chain challenges. Cleveland Cliffs has secured multi-year steel contracts with U.S. automakers, while Lucid offers lease discounts to offset the loss of EV tax credits. The episode features Harry Campbell, known as 'The Rideshare Guy,' discussing the rise of robotaxis and partnerships with companies like Uber, emphasizing the evolving landscape of ride-hailing and autonomous vehicles.
Automotive News’ inaugural Auto Industry Confidence Index shows automaker executives are upbeat about current business conditions but less optimistic about the future. Cleveland-Cliffs inks a multiyear deal to supply U.S. carmakers amid tariffs. Plus, “The Rideshare Guy,” Harry Campbell, talks about the momentum behind robotaxis and partnerships with traditional platforms such as Uber and Lyft.