Nissan is a big car company from Japan that makes lots of different cars. They had to close some factories because they weren't making enough cars there.
NADA is a group that helps car dealers by sharing important news and plans about selling cars. They have meetings where dealers learn about what to expect in the car business.
These are rules or deals from car companies that affect how much money car dealers make when they sell cars. It can change the price you pay or what the dealer earns.
The Mercedes G-Class is a fancy and tough SUV that looks very boxy and can drive on rough roads easily. People like it because it’s both strong and comfortable inside. The podcast talks about it because other car makers want to make similar cars to compete with it.
The G-Class is a fancy and strong SUV made by Mercedes that can go off-road and looks very boxy. Many car companies want to make similar cars because it’s very popular. The podcast talks about how Lincoln wants to make a car like this.
The Acura ZDX is a special kind of SUV that looks a bit like a sporty car with a sloping back. It was made to be both stylish and useful. The podcast talks about the first gas-powered version to remember how it started before newer versions came out.
Land Rover is a company that makes fancy SUVs that are good for driving off-road and in rough places.
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good. Prices and participation may vary. It's noon here in Ventura City, New Jersey,
and our nation's capital, Washington, D.C. This is CarEdge Live for Wednesday,
February 25th with your hosts, me, Ray, here in Ventura City, and Zach,
hanging out in front of his bike in his apartment in D.C. How are you today, handsome?
Doing well, Dad. Happy February 25th. Thank you, everyone, for tuning in and joining us.
Today's show is brought to you by CarEdge.com. Car site, show you frag prices. We'll get you
the real one for those of you that are unfamiliar. Yes. Six years ago, my dad and I started a car
buying service. You can get $200 off right now in CarEdge Pro, which is 20% off. We offer a service
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come on here and you can find dealers. Let's do, for example, I don't know,
browse by brand. Let's find a Ford dealer and we can find highly rated Ford dealers that
are transparent or I scroll down. Oh my, so many Ford dealers, Dad. So many Ford dealers.
We keep going. Some Ford dealers that maybe are a little less transparent. Like one, for example,
that 82, this explains what an outdoor price is. This one, Dad, that adds add-ons to 82% of
their dealer quotes. You can learn more about dealers. Get some insights here back on CarEdge.com
slash dealer dash ratings. We seek your input. You ready to jump into the show?
If I may, this information is based on verified outdoor quotes that our AI negotiating agent
has received on behalf of these customers. Would that be a correct statement, young man?
Yep. So to be clear here, you can click into every single, let's go back here. So we're on
Point Day Hills, Ford. We're saying that they have add-ons, et cetera, et cetera. I came down here.
This particular vehicle, a 2022 Ford Bronco, used one. It's got no add-ons, it says, but savings.
You can click through here. This one has add-ons. I can click through there. All of these have
the notes, have the receipt. So please, please, please. Yeah, what is this, Dad? It's got an
extra transport fee. This is crazy. What? Anyway, yeah, there's receipts for everything.
You also take a peek at that and share your feedback. Let's jump into today's show, Dad.
We're going to start here. Automakers are really, really, really starting to show some signs of
distress, and in particular, some luxury automakers. Aston Martin, Dad, this morning,
the story came out cutting one out of every five employees in their workforce at the same exact
time. Yes. All those sales plummet 23% year over year, and Lucid, Dad. Lucid has lost $2.7 billion
in the most recent year. Here are just three examples of automakers who may be saying goodbye
in the near future to the grand old auto market. Dad, let's start here with Aston Martin.
20% of their workforce cut. This is a big deal. Well, it's a big deal if you happen to work
for Aston Martin, and if you don't, well, then it's not. You're thinking to yourself,
who cares? But you should care, and the reason you should care is if luxury brands are struggling
and some of the luxury brands are, and Aston Martin is one of those brands, and we know that
the vehicles that are selling presently are, well, luxury brands, then you have to start
thinking to yourself, is this all drying up? If Aston Martin goes by the wayside,
could that impact Mercedes? Could it impact BMW? Could it impact all the other major luxury
brands that are out there? It very well could. Now, let's face it, Aston Martin makes a pretty
damn good-looking car, but it's not one I would ever own. It's not one I ever said to myself,
well, I shouldn't say that because there have been times where I said to myself,
you know, I pretty good in one of those convertibles that they make. But the point is,
they're so damn expensive, I would never actually dream of doing it. But if you are
cutting out the high-end luxury customers, if they are finally begging off and saying
enough is enough, that should be a warning sign for everybody.
Yeah, it's not a little bit of the story here. Think of some of the brands that we've talked
about recently that are in financial hardship. Obviously, I just brought up three that are
all luxury brands. We brought up Aston Martin, Volvo, Lucid. There's also Maserati, Dad. Maserati,
Alfa Romeo. There are a handful of Silanthus-related brands there that are really struggling from a
sales perspective, profitability perspective. There could be a whole litany of luxury brands that
go by the wayside that go out of business. And to your point, seeing luxury brands go out of
business. Heck, we haven't even talked about Lincoln. Lincoln struggled mightily as well.
Part of that's due to quality issues and all sorts of stop sales last year. But
that if luxury brands are going out of business, that's an indication that, yeah,
those well-heeled high-end buyers are no longer purchasing. And that's where this industry has
found itself finding their most profitable customers are at the highest ends. If that goes away,
that would get that quick. What you have to realize is we're also seeing
non-luxury mass market brands struggle. Mitsubishi, Nissan. Yes. I mean, Nissan in particular
closed seven of the worldwide manufacturing facilities because they were being underutilized.
They're selling off real estate so that they can have the cash on hand to keep operating as a
business. So you're looking at one of the world's greatest mass market brands that for the most
part produces some relatively inexpensive new cars. They're struggling. Then you look at a
lot of your luxury brands. They're struggling. Well, who's left? At some point, everybody's
going to struggle. And we can't just always blame it on China because even some sales in China
are struggling, where the government has said you can no longer continue to just lower the
price of your vehicles and sell everything at a loss and expect us to continue to support you so
that you can stay in business. So it seems like there's a worldwide reckoning, an awakening that's
happening where every brand, mass market, luxury, whatever is starting to look at the issues
surrounding their businesses and wondering just how many more years do they have left?
Yeah, seriously. All right. So let's turn our attention to because even the Volvo's story
starts to speak to what you're talking about, which is, be clear, Volvo is a luxury brand,
but this is their stripped down EX30 that they're bringing to market to try
and revitalize sales. So Volvo sales down 23% globally, and that's a huge decline obviously
for the manufacturer, they're coming into the market now with a cheaper mid $30,000,
low $30,000 variant, the EX30, that's their big bet here is that this little thing is actually
going to be what drives future growth for Volvo. Now the challenge here, dad,
is this is an electric vehicle and we know that that's not really what people are looking to
buy right now. So it seems like even these manufacturers, so luxury manufacturer Volvo,
trying to bring prices down to appeal to a wider audience, we've seen other manufacturers
at Nissan that to be she struggle even at lower price points, while they're bringing in a new EV
at a lower price point, is that really what's going to set them up for success or is this going
to be another death nail on the path towards potential going out of business?
Well, and Volvo is, even though it has Swedish heritage, it's a Chinese company these days
and it has been for a number of years, yearly automotive, bought them years ago from Tata,
which was an India automobile manufacturer. So, you know, everybody has struggled with Volvo.
Has it always been considered a one of the world's safest cars? Yeah, but how long can you
live off of that reputation? And is it, did they go so upscale that they actually became a luxury
brand? I think they got into luxury pricing whether or not they were actually considered a luxury
brand is another question and probably another show. But it is scary when a brand that has been
around as long as they have with a reputation for safety as long as they have is now struggling
to find their footing and find a place in worldwide automotive. And it's, you know,
how small do you have to make that electric car to where people are willing to buy it?
And it seems as if even that small, and in the mid 30s or lower 30s, people still don't want to buy
it. So, I don't know what the answer is for some of these brands. It is frightening to a certain
degree in the sense that we can see a major shake up in what automotive looks like 10 or 15
years from now as far as who the big players are. Yeah, and I don't even know if it's 10 or 15 years.
I mean, the reason Stellantis is now called Stellantis is because there's a merger of a bunch of
brands, many of them obviously struggling. We're seeing the ramifications of that now.
So maybe, dad, maybe the future looks like the Lucid, the Tesla, the Rivians of the world.
Well, that's where we get the latest Lucid data. Yeah, they lost $150,000 per car sold
last year, per car made last year. I mean, they are just losing money hand over fist.
I think about this, the startups we've known have been losing money for a long time,
used at Rivian, et cetera. And they continue to lose money today. Now the legacy automakers
are also losing money hand over fist at the same exact time. This is a little one-two punch,
Lucid losing all this money, Rivian losing all this money, Volvo losing this money,
Aston Martin losing this money, Nissan, the list goes on and on. They're all losing money right now.
And some of them are going to go out of business. And you look at Lucid and you think to yourself,
well, the fact that they're only losing $150,000 per vehicle sold, okay?
Well, that's a significant improvement over when it was a quarter of a million dollars
per vehicle sold. My suggestion to the good folks at Lucid and your headquartered in Casa Grande,
Arizona, not too far down the road from Tempe, Arizona, you know, maybe it's time to bring up the
Garcia's father and son and say, hey, how do you turn this stuff around? Because nobody,
nobody has done a better job of that, at least on paper than Carvana. So, you know, if you want to,
if you're Lucid and you're looking at what the future may hold you, you have to just travel up
the road a little ways and go, please show us how to go from zero, from nothing, from near
bankruptcy to a hugely profitable and investor-led company. So, please help us because at a certain
point, even the Saudis are going to say to Lucid, you know what? We're done. I mean, how much can
you, and I know that, hey, the Saudis are still making a ton of money off of oil. I get all
that and they're hedging their bets and putting billions upon billions upon billions into propping
up a small electric vehicle manufacturer, in case the world goes to the root of battery electric
vehicle, then if they have a good year next year, next year, this year, 2026, if they have a good
year, they're going to sell 25, 26,000 vehicles. There's a certain amount of lunacy associated with
that, at least in my mind. Now, it's not just the small guys, right? We started the show talking
about a legacy brand with Aston Martin, Volvo, obviously struggling. He brought up Nissan
and Mitsubishi as well. Yeah, this is across every brand. I brought up Maserati and Alfa Romeo.
Even this headline today in automotive news speaks volumes of what's going on in the
auto industry right now. Audi, as part of a legal case, which we're going to talk
about in a second. This closes, it expects US sales to slump into 2026. That is part of a
legal dispute with a dealer group. It came out in part of the discovery that Audi expects a 13%
sales drop this year in the United States. Just another indication of, yeah.
Just between you and me and the 10 or 12 people that might watch this. You were the
National Automobile Dealers Association meeting in Vegas earlier this month.
Do you think at the Audi Make meeting that the executives from Audi stood up and said,
hey, by the way, great news. We expect sales to decline 13% for you this year. I'm pretty sure
they put on a much happier face and expressed how sales were going to increase in 2026
to pump up their dealer body when in reality, their lawyers in a legal case have to admit
the truth, which is we're actually expecting sales to decline this year. One of the reasons
I never liked going to things like an ADA or even the dealer meetings that I was expected to attend
was because these meetings are set up where the manufacturer is just trying to blow smoke up your
butt. For what it's worth that, I want to be very clear. I do not attend any manufacturer
meetings. Well, I know, but our audience might not. I have no clue what they talked about.
The report here that we have comes out of a lawsuit. Yes. I think you're trying to draw a
connection here, which more power too. You were the one who sat in on these meetings for a 40-plus
year career where you're saying the manufacturer is going to say, hey, things are hunky-dory,
but in reality, they're not. But let me show you here, Dad, because it is fascinating how
we got this information. There is a dealership group right here. It's Luxury Autos of
Smithtown, which operates Audi of Smithtown in St. James and Audi of Huntington and Huntington
Station on New York's Long Island. They're in this legal battle with Audi. They're in this
legal battle because they've said that they were wrongfully disadvantaged by Audi of America's
margin programs tied to sales. Now, it's worth mentioning here that my dad, for a period of
time, ran an Audi dealership. We're going to get his insights in just a second. But as
part of this dispute, legal dispute, Audi came out and they said their sales projection for
2026 is 144,000 vehicles, which should be clear as a 13% decline. Audi, Dad, had hit record-setting
sales back in 2023, and sales have fallen by double digits in 2024 and 2025, and they're
expecting that to happen again here in 2026. To fit the theme of automakers in panic mode,
car brands that won't survive in 2026. Will Audi survive in 2026? Of course,
Audi's going to survive in 2026. Aston Martin, Lucid, on the other hand,
I think they're a little more teetering on the edge of jaguar. Yeah, jaguar. Yep. There's some more
brands that are on the potential peril in 2026 timeline, but Audi three years in a row of over
10% sales declines. Dad, that program that these dealers were saying they were disadvantaged in,
I mean, you sold Audi's for a long time. Audi's a manufacturer that offers big stair step
programs for hitting volume. You've shared the story and I'll give you the space to
share it here in a second. Again, no one sells Audi's at MSRP. No one sells Audi's at
Invoice. They all sell back of Invoice. This is interesting data to get our hands on.
When the people I worked for bought an Audi dealership, an existing Audi dealership,
and they approached it the way they approached all their stores, which is they didn't really
like to discount. I remember at the mini store, they said, I don't think we should be
discounting our vehicles. I said, well, you need to tell that to our competitors because they are.
And after we had taken over the Audi store, the Audi rep came in and looking at the monthly
financial statements said, your accounting department must be off. You're making like
two and a half to three times the profit per vehicle sold than any other Audi store in our
region. And so you must be accounting for this incorrectly. And it was, well, no, they weren't.
We were making money per every car sold, where in the region, the truth of the matter was that
the vast majority of Audi dealerships, if not all of them, sold every vehicle below Invoice.
And the rationale for it was there were stair step programs from Audi for hitting your sales
numbers, for hitting service targets, for hitting customer satisfaction targets and things like that,
where Audi was the one that was paying the dealer's profit, not the customer's. They didn't,
Audi did not expect the customer to actually be the one that was paying the profit so a
dealership could stay open. Audi was going to pay that. And so it was hard for our group to grasp that.
But dad, look at this litigation going on right now. This is a dealer group saying we were
disadvantaged and Audi coming up. And Audi's coming out and saying, yeah, you're disadvantaged,
we're disadvantaged, we're down. Look at this, just for context here. Audi's sales are going to
be down 37% from their all time high, which was just three years ago. So think about that
for a second. Think about that. Audi sales down 37%. At the same time, dad, they're competitors.
Ben's BMW are anticipating and projecting sales growth this year. So not only is the dealer
saying we're being disadvantaged in a program that, as you're describing it, doesn't allow
them to make money from selling cars, they make money from Audi funding it on the other side,
the Audi is also coming out and saying, we got no chance of actually selling more vehicles,
we're anticipating we're going to sell 37% fewer than our record.
Yeah, they have been trending in the wrong direction for several years now and there doesn't
appear to be anything that is going to put a stop to that. They tried their best to
really go into electric vehicles, much more so than many of their competitors, and that's come
back to bite them. And then the cost of their vehicles continues to go up. And truth of the
matter is, Zach, the quality of their vehicles is suspected best, you know, in my mind.
And Audi is no different than Mercedes-Benz or a BMW.
They're trying to cheat in that same range.
Yeah, in the sense that you wouldn't want to own one once it is out of warranty.
The cost of maintaining one and repairing one when the stuff starts breaking down
is astronomical. And so that's another issue that they have to address because
they do have as nice of vehicles they build. And they, you know, when they're brand new,
they are, they're beautiful. They're magnificent automobiles. But it's what happens to them when
you use them. And then what it takes to maintain them, I don't know how anyone could own an Audi,
a BMW or Mercedes-Benz out of warranty. I mean, you just, you might as well just give the dealership
your checkbook and tell them the right, whatever size check they need to write every month so that
you can continue to drive your car. I will say, when we're talking about these luxury German
vehicles, I feel like that's across the board, some obviously, and it goes down to a model
level to some worse than others. But these vehicles are obviously very expensive from a
cost of ownership standpoint. Dad, I want to turn our attention to one more story here,
which is Lincoln. They're reportedly going to come out with an upgraded Bronco to compete with the
Mercedes G-Class. What? Excuse me. What was that? Could you write that to me again?
Lincoln wants to compete with the G-Class, the G-Wagon. And everyone wants to, BMW, Audi,
and L-Lincoln. So this is going to be a re-skinned upgraded Ford Bronco that'll probably cost you
well over six failures. They're G-Wagon competitor. This could be the path of
profitability over at Lincoln. I believe that every potential Lincoln owner has said,
boy, if they just made something that was along the lines of a G-Wagon, I'd be in.
And I guess the fastest way to get there is to take a Bronco and re-skin it and just make it
even boxier. It seems to me that that will probably be a losing proposition on behalf of the good folks
at Lincoln. They're showing up market. This is another example of going up market amidst the
time when we know that that strategy is starting to show some cracks. Ford already has expensive
vehicles that they're struggling with. And then Lincoln's been struggling for years. I mean,
if ever there should be a dual franchise, it should be like Lincoln, Audi, all in one facility.
And that way you could end up closing your store sooner rather than later because it'll fail
faster. It just seems to me. Well, think about it. I mean, there was a point in time where there was
Ford and there was Lincoln and Mercury. And then Ford said, well, Mercury's not doing nothing.
So let's do away with Mercury. At a certain point, they're going to come to the realization,
well, that Lincoln's not doing anything. And it's, you know, just stop already. I mean, why are you
wasting the money? Why are you wasting the time? Put that time, effort, energy and money into
more affordable vehicles so that you can broaden your customer base. But to suddenly think to
yourself, damn, we need something to compete with the G-Wagon. It reminds me of we were driving around
the other day when you were here. And we saw an X6, a BMW X6. And I said to you, I said,
look at that. That's the vehicle that Acura said we need to make a competitive model to that,
which was at that time the original gas-powered ZDX. And, you know, I thought to myself, every
time I've seen an X6, I think, that's really a pretty interesting looking vehicle. It's really
unique. And then when Acura actually came out with the ZDX, I thought to myself, well, the
problem with this is that in reality, I might see an X6 every six months. Okay. So, yeah, they're
pretty interesting looking. They just don't really sell a lot of them. And so to suddenly say, well,
we need a competitor to that, is that that's the same to me when Lincoln says we need a competitor
to the G-Wagon. No, you don't. You know, let Land Rover be a competitor to the G-Wagon. You don't need
to try and be a competitor to the G-Wagon. I mean, if you want to produce something that isn't
going to sell, then okay, decide to be the competitor to the G-Wagon. And you'll realize
afterwards, you know, people buy the G-Wagon. Of course, it's a G-Wagon, damn it. Not because
it's a reskinned Bronco. Let's come here to the chat, Pops. We had earlier in the show from Rich.
Thank you for your kind contribution, Rich. Pops, the realist. How many years will it take to
clean up this still growing mess? And this is tying back to obviously some of the conversation
there with Lincoln, but more broadly, these automakers that are in panic mode, that are
doing mass layoffs, that are anticipating major sales cutbacks, et cetera. How long to clean up
this mess, Ed? Oh, I think I mentioned it yesterday. I really think that the landscape of automotive
is going to look so completely different 10, 15, 20 years from now, that the major players
and the major manufacturers aren't even manufacturers or players that we know of today.
I think there's going to be some startups out there that really make inroads. And I think
we are looking at the first indications, or maybe for me it's the realization that there
have been indicators for years that legacy major automotive manufacturers, as we know them,
are going by the wayside. They are so entrenched in what they do that they no longer have the
capability to maneuver as quickly as they may need to maneuver in order to be able to stay in business.
So how many years? I don't know. I think automotive is going to look completely different 10,
15, 20 years from now. I think the brands that you will be discussing, thankfully I won't
be doing this anymore, but I believe the brands that you will be discussing with whoever your
co-host may be will be brands that we would have never really thought of as being the major
players. I've lived through just in my lifetime brands that were out there that you don't see
anymore, Rambler, which became AMC, Studebaker, Etzel. I mean, there are so many brands that
existed that don't exist anymore that I think the future will be, you will be discussing brands
that nobody thought of would ever really be major players. So 15, 20 years?
Dad, Cox Automotive actually came out with a really interesting survey they did, which was brand
awareness and familiarity for Chinese automakers. And it could be some of these names that I'm about
to read to you that become what we're talking about in the next decade. BYD, many people have
heard of that. Shang-Yan, Cherry, Geely, JTor. Apologies if I'm pronouncing these incorrectly,
but these can be the brands that we're talking about in the decade that now have
market share, mind share, et cetera. Just like you were describing, Rambler went away,
Studebaker went away, Saturn went away. Yeah, C went away. I mean, there's just, you know,
let me know when Feng Shui comes out with a car. Okay, because I got to get my Feng Shui on.
I'm trying to be good. Again, folks, today's show is brought to you by CarEdge.com. If you
want to support me and my dad, our company is CarEdge.com. For the past six years,
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see here every day how that number is growing. And the data that we then make, excuse me,
we make available and provide are things like brand report cards, state B reports,
or you can simply come here and search for a dealership near you. So I'll just search for
Nissan of Merrimack Valley. There you go. You can see here what their dock fee is. I can scroll down
and I can see quotes for vehicles that we've gotten from that particular dealership. So
all the notes are here. Whoops, failed to fetch the PDF. This is why it's in beta, baby. Let's
see this one. Failed to fetch beta, gal log beta. I hate when it fails to fetch, buddy.
I mean, that's like a three legged dog, you know, that just fails to fetch.
I love that. But you can see there's really good information here. I can sort, for example,
by C rated Nissan dealers. Let's go to Jacksonville and let's take a peek at some deals here.
There we go. Nice. We got our Windows sticker. We've got our OTD quote. Let me show the right
tab. You can see the Windows sticker here. You can see the OTD quotes. You can see the
pre-delivery service charge. What's this dealer deal one? Come on. Yeah. Anyway, y'all, we've got
great data back on caredge.com slash dealer dash ratings and we want your feedback, please.
Absolutely. And we need your feedback. We need your feedback. Yes. Yes. Okay. We're back tomorrow
with more Car Edge Live. Please tune in at 12 p.m. Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific time. Dad,
enjoy the afternoon and talk to you soon. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, me and the grocery
store, we're going to have a good time today. If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing
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About this episode
Luxury and mass-market automakers alike are facing significant financial struggles, with brands like Aston Martin cutting 20% of their workforce and Lucid losing billions. Volvo is betting on a lower-priced electric model to revive sales, but consumer interest in EVs remains uncertain. Nissan is closing factories due to underutilization, signaling widespread industry challenges. The podcast explores how these difficulties could reshape the automotive landscape, questioning which brands will survive the next few years amid shifting market demands and economic pressures.
Today on CarEdge Live, Ray and Zach discuss the latest data on luxury car brands that are struggling. Tune in to learn more! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com
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