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Banks on Private Equity Reshaping Auto, Vanguard Kia on Store Turnaround | Daily Dealer Live
Banks on Private Equity Reshaping Auto, Vanguard Kia on Store Turnaround | Daily Dealer Live
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About this episode
Yossi Levy and Yuli DiMartino host a lively discussion featuring industry expert Cliff Banks and Jason Villa from Vanguard Kia. They explore the impact of private equity on auto retail, the challenges posed by tariffs, and the evolving landscape of vehicle sales, including the potential threat from companies like Carvana. Villa shares insights on turning around his Kia store, focusing on improving vehicle merchandising and service operations. The episode highlights the importance of adapting to market changes and maintaining engagement with customers to drive sales.
Topics:
private equity impact
tariffs and pricing
vehicle merchandising
service department efficiency
Carvana competition
turnaround strategies
customer engagement
digital sales strategies
used car market dynamics
Today's show features:
Jason Villa, General Manager of Vanguard Kia of Arlington
Cliff Banks, President & Founder of The Banks Report & AUTOVATE.org
This episode is brought to you by:
Haig Partners – Public retailers cite it. National media trusts it. Dealers rely on it. The Haig Report® sets the standard for dealership M&A data and trends in auto retail. Read it at https://haigpartners.com/Haig-Report/.
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We're doing better as a result of social media presence.
It doesn't do those three things, then it's on the chopping block.
It's in return on investment discussion.
Welcome to another episode of Daily Deal Live.
Got a new host today, so surprise, surprise.
I am your host, Yossi Levy, the car dealership guy, and I got Yuli DiMartino on with me.
Yuli, welcome.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Great to have you back on.
Well, our beloved Sam is out today, so we're covering for him, but it's going to be a
great show.
We have two great guests in the queue, one of them being Cliff Banks, the legendary
Cliff Banks from the Banks Report.
We're going to discuss many different things from private equity and auto retail, the macro
a little bit.
We're going to touch on China, AI and auto retail.
We're also going to have Jason Villa from Vanguard Kia.
We're going to talk about how he's been able to turn around this Kia store, so this
should be a great, fascinating discussion.
And that'll be it, so we're going to start with our headlines first.
As you can tell, I'm not used to this rhythm, but I'll get there.
So with that said, Yuli, kick us off.
Thanks, Yossi.
So starting off today, tariffs are reshaping automaker pricing strategies.
Audi has raised 2026 prices by 800 to $4100 per model and added three years of free
maintenance to offset the increase.
A move that comes as the brand continues to absorb 25% import duties with no US production
base to lean on.
These automakers are navigating the same pressures differently.
Toyota, Honda and Nissan have all made recent MSRP adjustments, but say they reflect operational
costs or product updates rather than a new 15% tariff rate.
Even so, the financial impact is significant.
Toyota projects a $9.7 billion tariff bill this fiscal year.
Honda $3 billion and Nissan at $2.1 billion.
Together, the updates show how global brands are adjusting to the same policy shift
in different ways, either by passing costs through buyers or by managing them internally
while tariffs weigh on margins.
Next up, NHTSA investigates 1.4 million Honda Acura vehicles over V6 engine troubles.
Federal safety regulators have opened a probe into 1.4 million Honda Acura models with
the 3.5 liter V6 engines that could suffer connecting rod bearing failures and leave
drivers stranded.
The case covers Acura TLX and MDX, Honda Pilot, Odyssey and Ridgeline, models built between
2016 and 2020.
Honda recalled 249,000 vehicles in 2023 for similar crankshaft issues, but new complaints outside
that recall window just pushed NHTSA to reopen the investigation.
If defects are confirmed across multiple lines and years, Honda could face one of
the largest and costliest recalls in its history, testing the very reliability reputation it's
built for decades.
And lastly, the day forecliff, dealers are losing sales by ending lead follow-up too
soon studies show.
A new 4 eyes analysis of 8 million sales opportunities shows dealers are leaving money
on the table by cutting off lead follow-up way too early.
Only three quarters of deals closed within the first three days, but another 25-30% happened
later in the cycle.
Most stores taper outreach after day three, meaning competitors scoop up those slower
buyers, especially online and phone leads that convert well into the second and third
weeks.
The message is clear, not all buyers are fast closers, and dealers who maintain
engagement beyond the first week and use data to spot intent signals are best
position to capture incremental sales.
Not a shocker.
Thank you.
Yeah, not a shocker.
I mean, I think the four day thing is interesting because I never, I typically didn't, I never
looked at it by days.
I usually looked at it by, by number, quantity of follow-up, but you know, pegging the
number to it is fair AI can obviously help here.
So we'll talk about that.
I will say we do get a lot of requests to join the show and the way to do that
and to tell us what you want to talk about and why you think you should join the
show is at cdgguest.com, cdgguest.com.
It's a very short form.
You can tell us about yourself, your story, the news in the market, in the
industry, or you can actually pitch someone else if you think that they have
something newsworthy to say.
So check it out, fill it in, we get that, we review them all, and we'll
follow up with you.
So with that said, we're going to get to our first guest, Cliff Banks,
founder of the Banks report and auto.org.
Cliff, welcome to the show.
Great to be here, Yossi.
Thanks for having me.
Thanks for coming on.
Cliff, we've done a podcast before and this was a while back.
And when I thought about this conversation with you, I want to
start with a softball and just say, can you tell?
Well, before I even ask you what's in your mind, actually, let me take
one step back.
Cliff, can you briefly tell for those that don't know you, who
you are, what you do?
I've been in an industry for about 35 years since 1990.
In 2000, I started at Wards Auto as a journalist, editor, and I've
worked in media, automotive retail media since then.
I started the Banks report in 2013, which is a newsletter for
investors primarily in the automotive retail space.
And then I launched AutoVate in 2016, which is a conference aimed
while focusing on investment in auto retail technology.
And we've been doing that conference will be in our ninth
year this coming September.
So attendees are dealers, execs from the large dealer groups,
entrepreneurs, vendors, investors, investment banks,
and CEOs from the tech firms in the industry.
Yeah, and Cliff, you pulled together a really great crowd.
I was texting with one dealer this morning about today's guest,
and I said, hey, you mentioned, oh, Cliff Banks, great insights.
I said, great.
I was like, what do you think I should ask?
And he specifically pointed out your proximity to lots of industry
leaders and you're very well-networked.
And I sit on a positive connotation.
You're with the right people.
You sort of have a pulse on what's going on.
So I want to start at a very high level.
Here's my soft bubble.
What's on your mind nowadays?
When you think about our industry, auto retail,
what are you thinking about?
Well, I think there's multiple levels or answers
to that question.
First, I do spend a lot of time looking at the long-term
future of the industry.
Probably harder to do than it was 20 years ago,
in some respect, just because of all of the changes
that we're seeing on a technological level,
both with AI.
I think the Chinese question, the impact that China automakers
may have, and I say may, on our industry
here in this country is unknown yet.
Certainly, we have even the question
that's been ongoing for a while.
And there's other things, maybe a little bit longer
out the whole autonomous driving question, which I was,
if you'd asked me, five, eight years ago,
I wasn't really optimistic.
Well, when I say optimistic, that's probably the wrong word.
I was very skeptical as to the viability of that technology.
And now having ridden in a Waymo 90 sometimes in Phoenix,
when I go out there, I've changed my perspective somewhat.
And I think one of the questions or one of the dynamics
to really look at here, I think even starting today,
is what impact Waymo, and I say Waymo because it's
different than Tesla, but what impact it's
going to have on sales or private ownership in some of these states
like Phoenix.
What's your estimate?
Cliff, do you have an estimate on that?
I want to start looking at the data and seeing.
And I think we're probably getting to the point now
where we may start seeing some of that impact.
But it's hard to tell because we
have so many other things going on in terms of tariffs
and the increased costs of vehicles
or increased purchase price.
So there's going to be a lot of noise in that data still.
But I would imagine that at some point soon,
as Waymo continues to exponentially grow their number
of rides, that that's going to have some impact on ownership.
I'd be curious to see after you do your analysis
and you look at the data when we could or might expect it
to somehow reflect in sales.
And again, in a way, it's a more modern form of rideshare.
So but again, it comes down to what is the cost
and like you said, will that reflect ultimately
in the dealership sales?
Well, yeah, it's interesting.
Everyone was predicting early on that Uber and Lyft
would negatively impact sales and it actually
positively impacted sales.
What's different here, obviously,
is the autonomous self-driving part with Waymo.
And I think Tesla won't impact sales
because those are personally owned.
Now, depending on whether Elon Musk is
able to execute on that robo-taxi strategy,
remains to be seen yet.
There's still huge regulatory obstacles there on his end yet.
I'm not saying he won't get there.
I mean, listen, he's once in a generation
personality and brain, I think.
But still, there's a longer way for him
than what we're seeing with Waymo.
I want to stay on the tangent of innovation.
And we did have Alex Vetter here in the comments
saying, Cliff is the goat.
So we agree.
All right, so staying on this tangent of innovation.
Talk to me.
And I have a specific comment.
I'll follow up on this after you share yours.
But talk to me a little bit about just
how you see private equity in VC continuing
to impact auto retail.
You track, you said, you specifically
write a newsletter for investors.
You track this market very closely.
What impacts are you seeing from PE and VC, respectively?
Well, it's been, I think, until really 2013, I would say.
I mean, when I started covering it,
it was a relatively unknown or misunderstood
or underestimated part of the industry.
When I started picking up on it when I was at Wards,
maybe the mid 2000s, just how impactful private equity was
how impactful private equity was both at the dealership level
in terms of buying stores and then in funding or financing
technology or some of the startups that ended up
turning into big plays and really moving,
I would say, technology forward in our industry.
So private equity has long played an important role in our space.
Now, in the last probably eight years, maybe a little bit
less than that, we're seeing some of these VC firms,
FM Capital, Autotech Ventures, Auto Ventures, Steve Greenfields
deal that have targeted dealers as limited partners or LPs.
So dealers are getting into the game on the VC side.
Dealers have always, I think, funded or backed entrepreneurs,
but really not from a VC perspective.
There's quite a few companies over the years
that were started within dealerships.
Drive-centric is one, and that's
one of the more phenomenal or impressive stories
from a startup level in our space.
And that's just in recent time, but recent years.
And there are others.
But so private equity has always played a role.
And now we're seeing some of the bigger, when I say now,
I mean, we have seen bigger players get in.
Certainly when COX, when Autotrader in 2010, 2011,
Autotrader embarked on an aggressive acquisition strategy.
We well know.
I mean, they bought Kelly Blue Book,
Viotto, and a host of other companies in the space.
And that was, they were looking to sell.
COX was looking to sell.
Autotrader took it off the market
and then landed Providence Equity Partners
as an investor who bought 25% of Autotrader
and he went on to finance their acquisition strategy.
So a lot of plays that weren't really covered
as much back in the day, I think
would generate much more attention today.
I think there's a greater sophistication in the market,
both on the part of dealers, investors,
in their understanding of the role
that each of them can play in the space.
So it's a level up in the intelligent market today.
You know, there's two sides to that coin.
I think on one hand, I think the VC market is very,
margins are compressing.
There's like a record number of VCs in the space.
And you know, I think it's like,
if you look at the stats, right,
like 90% of VCs don't even get close
to outperforming like the S&P or something
and then there's like the 10% power law to do.
On the other hand, I think that we live in a world
where the value creators or those driving the value
are able to participate in the upside
of the value to help drive
much greater than ever historically.
So let me kind of, let me simplify that, right?
If I'm a dealer and I am supporting this platform
that's helping me as well, right?
But I'm essentially, you know, I'm a large client
helping to grow, that's a way, you know,
I'm helping drive value.
I can participate in that.
If I am a social media influencer
that used to be signed by some large network
or whatever today, right?
I can, I'm helping drive that value.
I can participate in my own personal upside
doing different things.
Just the way the entire, all these industries
have just completely been disintermediated.
And now, you know, people want to capture it.
And by the way, this goes to like athletes as well, right?
You see athletes that are trying to get an ownership
and stuff.
So you're just seeing this in many, many different
nail in college.
So I don't want to go too deep on this tangent
because I have plenty of other stuff to ask you.
So I want to put it on that.
But so one of the things I wanted to get your take on
was you've been, you wrote about Hertz and Amazon
which we'll talk to you on in a second.
I haven't heard you talk much about Carvana's entrance
into the franchise space.
What's your take on that?
It's a work in progress.
I think I would venture to say that they're probably
still in the experimental phase, learning phase
and probably weren't even sure themselves
what their long-term strategy was going to be.
But it's absolutely the right move.
You know, I'm surprised it took them so long
to make that play.
And I would expect to make further moves here soon.
Well, whatever people think of Carvana,
I mean, listen, the Garcia's are absolutely geniuses.
Financial geniuses, but they've been able to pull off.
It is probably one of the most impressive business stories
across any industry in recent memory.
And I just, I wouldn't bet against them.
I mean, they seem to have a...
Let me give you a perspective here, Cliff.
Yeah.
So you did mention it's still an experimental phase,
I agree.
So I keep in touch with a couple of Carvana investors
and I spoke with one this weekend.
And this guy is sizable.
I mean, you're talking probably a couple of billion
at the minimum.
And he shared his own hypothesis.
I said, like, you know, talk to me
and I'm curious, what are you thinking about nowadays?
And he said, he said, look, if I'm them,
he's speaking for himself, right?
He said, but if I'm them, what I'm looking at now is
I am looking at scooping up underperforming franchises.
Right?
So we know Stalantis has gone through some issues.
I'm underperforming franchises.
Then I'm also looking at scooping up
underperforming stores within those underperforming franchises.
I am then maxing out the allocation I can get
from the manufacturer, right?
I'm not going to get enough allocation
to sell to the entire country every single vehicle
and get 100% of market share, sure.
But I may get enough allocation to sell five times more
than my neighboring stores.
Then I'm doing this in different pockets of the country
and different geographies.
And then you get to a situation where
they have these regional hubs that are shipping,
they already have the built-in distribution.
And this, in his perspective, was the way that he said,
I don't know how dealers are sleeping at night.
And again, he's talking his own book, sure.
But I think there's, I mean, he has a book for a reason.
There's a reason he has capital employer
because he doesn't believe this.
So that was his thesis.
And then I instantly, I pinged a couple of dealers
to say, hey, these people that I think
would be interested in this kind of stuff.
I said, what do you think about this?
Just to get some perspective.
So I'm curious, have you been looking at it that way?
Do you think that this is like a,
and I don't want to pick on Carvada, I think.
Like I agree with you, they're phenomenal
at executing great practitioners
and they've just done a very good job.
There's other players, large players, car max, well,
but I think in a bigger picture, right,
they have distribution locked down.
Do you think that this is like
some form of existential threat?
What's your take on this hypothesis
that this person with lots of capital
tied up in the stock shared with me?
Well, I guess he got to look at, I mean,
a threat to car dealers, I mean, other car dealers.
Maybe, I mean, we, you know,
I remember having similar conversations
in the early 2000s about the public dealer groups
and their creation.
They were just getting started
in the late nineties, early 2000s.
You know, car max owned several dealerships at one point.
I think that there's some other dynamics of play here also.
You mentioned the underperforming brands
and underperforming stores and absolutely.
I think that would be probably
the smartest play for Carvada at this point.
Convincing Toyota, I'm saying, you know,
some of the higher end franchises to sell,
to let them own their franchises
is gonna be a tough stretch right now, I think.
I would imagine just because of their heft
and what we know about, you know,
some of the other conversations that go on
between manufacturers and large dealer groups.
That's the thing won't happen.
I'm saying that those conversations
be a lot more challenging.
You pick up some Nissan stores
or some Chrysler stores or some others.
Yeah, I mean, I think the planet that he laid out
is certainly viable and makes a lot of sense.
Now, whether that's a threat to dealers,
you know, I don't know.
I mean, Carvada-
You don't seem convinced.
You don't seem convinced.
Well, I don't know if there's,
I don't know that it's a threat.
I mean, I will say this.
Carvada has certainly proven their process works.
Certainly on the used car side, which is what they are,
but on the customer acquisition side,
I think they've got it nailed down.
And I think a customer is crazy or naive
if they don't first go to Carvada to get
a valuation on their vehicle
before going to the store to dealership.
So then why wouldn't that be the next step
in the evolution?
I mean, I agree with everything Yossi said
and this investor.
This is the first thing I thought
as soon as Carvada bought that store.
They have the network already.
It's already there.
They've nailed online sales.
They're a one-price model.
They can ship nationwide.
So what's the stop them from shipping a Jeep
like Yossi said, you know?
And the biggest gripe I hear from dealers
in this competition is really comes down
to their economics versus the average dealers.
That's the biggest challenge here, right?
Because when you vertically integrate,
it's a whole different,
you have a whole different set of economics to work with
and ultimately you can deliver a consumer
something at a lower cost.
And so that's where the rub typically comes in.
But my question is to find threat.
I would define, I mean, when we say an accident
to car dealers, I mean, they then become a car dealer.
I mean, they are a new car dealer now.
Not to the car dealer model.
I think what he's saying is the threat
to current car dealers.
I mean, if I can sell into your market
at a lower cost for the customer
and a lower cost for me to acquire the customer
and ship using my network that I already have in place,
that's a threat to you as a dealer.
Well, to me as a dealer.
And by the way, Cliff,
and he said one other interesting point in his call.
He said, Yossi, as far as I know,
franchise laws are not meant to protect
one franchise from another,
like a franchisee from another.
He said, as far as I know,
franchise laws are meant to protect the franchisee
from the franchisee.
Again, I don't know the legality here.
You're saying correct.
But that was, again, another interesting point,
which is, wow, you're right.
In this case, it is franchisee versus franchisee.
Should there be more discourse about this?
I think people are,
I think the discourse will happen once,
once Carvana shows its cards
or starts buying up more stores,
then I think the manufacturers themselves
will start having questions,
start having conversations too.
Listen, I mean, you know, we had,
like I said, we had similar conversations
regarding AutoNation and others when they started
and the manufacturers were adept
at limiting the impact overall
by franchise, you know, franchise agreements,
or not franchise agreements,
but, you know, the framework agreements that were in place.
So, you know, I think,
I think we still have some ways to go before
we see whether this really becomes a threat or not.
Well, we'll keep it on, man, we'll have to,
I'm not saying you won't,
I'm just saying that,
I think your point's valid,
I think your point's valid, and I understand.
I just think this conversation sparked a bunch of thoughts
and it made me just wonder where,
what is the future here?
So I wanna, okay, so I wanna put a pin on this.
Let's go a little higher level.
You've spoken a bit about China,
Chinese brands entering the U.S.
Where are we at?
I mean, of course, we know the tariff situation
and, you know, a lot with the administration,
sure, you know, we're not gonna
bring Chinese vehicles right now,
but things change quickly.
You know, in the U.S., we have a new president,
typically every four or eight years,
and we don't know exactly, you know, if policy will change.
I mean, do you know of any dealers having conversations
with any Chinese manufacturers?
What's your perspective on overall opportunity,
opportunity ahead of us?
Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely.
I know for factor dealers,
numerous dealers that would jump at the chance
if a BYD were finally able to bring their vehicles over.
I mean, I think for dealers, it's most dealer,
and I say most.
I mean, the ones that I've talked to,
I've had a couple that have told me no,
they wouldn't consider unpatriotic principles,
but others, you know, money's green,
and if, you know, and if it's a viable vehicle
that they can sell and make money,
they'll jump at it.
So there are Chinese manufacturers that have often,
I mean, come over here with plans to sell their vehicles.
None have been successful yet,
but at some point that will change.
We just don't know the timing there.
You know, can we, I guess the question is,
do our government policies to tariffs today,
are we able to hold the line
in the for enough time for a GM and Ford,
you know, Stellantis or Chrysler to be able to,
I don't want to say get their act together,
but be able to produce or build vehicles
that would be competitive to what BYD
or some of the others have right now.
I think that's the question,
and hopefully the answer is yes.
But I would say for now,
the Chinese question is more of a national security question
issue for our government and for the people in charge,
and rightfully so.
It's, you just cannot have that,
you know, to Chinese vehicles being sold here
at this time.
It's scanning every inch of every road
and every intersection and every traffic pattern, yeah.
Oh yeah, I mean, it's just a non-starter.
In my opinion, you know, and, but again, I think.
I mean, do we not think that's happening anyways?
Oh, absolutely.
By way of all the other technology in this country?
Yeah, I'm sure, but do we want to make it
in the floodgates and add it, you know.
Yeah.
And I think that opinion is held across,
you know, both sides of the aisle in DC.
Yeah.
It's just a Republican or Democrat issue.
From a supply chain perspective, you know,
EVs, batteries, do you see any risk
posed directly to dealers and in your term?
You know, say no, and then wake up tomorrow morning
and it's a different story.
Then it gives us, Cliff, then it gives us a reason
to bring you back on the show.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Yeah, I think you gotta be,
you gotta keep an eye on that stuff, obviously.
But again, it's just,
maybe it's just because I've been around a long time
and you can tell from my hair that, you know,
we've seen and we've gone through these threats
and these life-changing, you know, moments
and they keep coming and the industry,
the retail industry continues to beat them back
or continues to survive and survive well.
I mean, look, there are dealers today,
I talked to them, they're just knocking the ball
out of the park very quietly.
You, I mean, you have those same conversations,
you know, I mean, it just,
the way they're able to adapt and change
and is nothing short of phenomenal.
And I think there's still several moats involved.
You know, there's attempts to erode them,
attempts to change them, but it's only gonna happen,
I think through the courts and maybe legislatively
at some level and we still aren't seeing
any massive changes there yet.
I could be wrong.
I mean, it could happen sooner.
And on the supply chain side, like you said,
you know, along with that autonomous vehicle side,
it's certainly the whole connected vehicle play
as a conversation, but I think that if it's played right,
if automakers play it right,
I think that the opportunity is to participate with dealers
in creating a wow customer service experience.
And that, you know, look,
that whole dealer-manufacturer relationship is hard.
I mean, you know, two different objectives
and they're often at odds.
Yeah, and speaking of, we did get a comment
from a gentleman named Tom Flynn.
He wrote, what about state franchise laws
and manufacturer dealer agreements?
I believe dealer agreements do not allow
for out-of-market area online sales.
So, you know, it'd be interesting to bring
some like a franchise dealer agreement expert
on the show to talk about that
because I think we could dive into, you know,
the details there.
Well, it would be certainly one
of the state franchise guys, you know,
and certainly state franchise laws,
some are stronger than others.
You know, you just go down the line.
I mean, Don Hill or Don Holland, Virginia,
you know, Ted Smith in Florida.
But, you know, they still, you know,
the, and Brian was at California.
Yeah, the challenges are, you know,
they went a lot, but they also lose some to the courts.
I think we just lost two.
So, yeah, but certainly having one of the state franchise
a lot of guys on, not state,
but the state association directors.
Cliff, final question before we wrap up.
Yulia, at this pace, we're going to launch
a new segment called the risk assessment
with Cliff Banks.
We're just going, we're going risk by risk.
My wheels are turning.
The risk assessment with Cliff Banks
on the Cardios of Guy.
All right, Cliff, so final thought here.
You posted about Amazon and Hertz to partnership.
I loved your take.
It was just so sober.
It was like, guys, why is this news?
Hertz has literally been selling cars
on cars.com, on car gurus.
So I thought it was funny the way you praise that
because, you know, I think anytime there's Amazon,
anything, it just gets eaten up
by the entire internet and the media
because of the possibilities.
And I do think that was maybe
the bigger angle here.
It's like Amazon leaning into, used,
as opposed to Hertz leaning into Amazon.
Give us the breakdown here.
What are you seeing?
What does this entail?
What's next?
We'll just continue to see announcements from Amazon
regarding dealers, maybe some manufacturers.
Listen, the Amazon autos play.
And I wrote this in 2018.
And I actually wrote about it in 2016
when Hyundai and Amazon started getting closer.
But I wrote a much more comprehensive report in 2018.
And nothing that I wrote then,
I've seen nothing that changes my opinion
or perspective, I think, from what I wrote then.
Okay.
And what was it?
It's a digital advertising play for Amazon.
Part of a bigger strategy, overall company strategy.
And in 2018, I forget what the actual numbers were,
but Amazon generated, was generating four to six billion
in digital advertising revenue.
And that was up from like 1.8 in 2017.
Today, well, last year it was 56 billion,
I believe that they generated.
And it will be in the 60s this year.
And probably in the 70s, in 2026.
Listen, Amazon first of all,
has no interest in selling cars,
no interest in paying a floor plan,
no interest in owning vehicles and selling.
They are collecting data
and the auto industry is rich in data.
And this is going to help
with their digital advertising efforts.
So I don't, I think it's another site
for dealers to list their inventory
and maybe Amazon comes with some extra bells and whistles,
maybe, but they still have a huge learning curve
ahead of them.
We've seen Google and Microsoft over the years
come in with similar plays and out,
just because it is tough.
So I like Fan Jin, I mean, who's leading the efforts.
I've been super impressed with her.
But again, I think that hurts play.
I mean, listen, it's for her, it's smart.
I mean, they want to put their inventory everywhere possible
because when they sell retail,
I mean, they'll get a thousand, no $1,500 more per vehicle
than what they sent to the auction.
No surprise there.
So.
It does make me wonder though, why Amazon
is going this build versus buy route
where they could, you know, in theory,
make an offer for an existing network in the industry,
a listing site, even for the last decade,
Carvana now is a different story.
Not that they couldn't, but it's a whole different
ballgame.
Yeah, well, I've said that to me,
just write the check for cars.com or car.
I don't want to write it out for sale,
but cars.com or car.
Just write the check.
I mean, so it's built.
They have everything you want
and what you're trying to do.
And you just layer that Amazon name
and some of the other technology on top of it.
And boom, you know, you're, there you are.
So I don't know.
I mean, who knows?
I, yeah, probably it's pretty far down the road.
They're probably pretty far down the road
to make that move now.
Well, Cliff, it's always great to have you on.
Cliff Banks, founder of the Banks Report
and Automate.
Thanks for making it happen for us.
Giving us the risk assessment with Cliff Banks.
Thanks, Cliff.
Love it.
Great conversation, guys.
Thanks.
Appreciate it, man.
Funny thought starter.
You wonder if the reason why they haven't written a check
is like, you always hear about these big tech companies
that they start this spin-off of some subsidiary
or whatever and it makes a couple million dollars a year
and they're just like, you know what?
We're going to cancel it.
It's just not profitable enough for us.
I mean, I'm not, I'm not an MBAer,
but I have listened to some, you know, podcasts and stuff.
And as far as I'm aware, every like, you know,
Harvard business review and stuff,
where they review M&A success and failures,
M&A historically fails like nine out of 10 times
or some crazy stat.
So M&A is tough, you know, to get it right.
It's really, really difficult.
So thank you for what it's worth.
And you can, you can fact check me on that exact stat.
ChadGBT can probably give you the answer right now,
but I know, I know overwhelmingly it's a tough endeavor.
So for sure.
So with that said, fun segment.
And before we go on to our next guest,
let's get a little word from our supporters of the show,
Hague Partners.
Public retailers cite it.
National media trusts it.
Dealers rely on it.
And that's the Hague report.
The Hague report sets the standard
for dealership M&A data and trends in auto retail.
You can read it at HaguePartners.com forward slash Hague dash report.
Again, that's HaguePartners.com forward slash Hague dash report
or you can try to scan this QR code here.
That is to my left.
See if you're successful there
or you can even find it in the show notes
if you're streaming this after the live segment.
Thank you to Hague Partners for supporting the show.
And now let's get on to our next guest, Jason Villa
from Vanguard Kia of Arlington.
I was telling them a little bit about your background.
You know, we're happy to have you here.
So I want to ask you the trademark question of how is Biz
but before you answer that question of how business is today
in August, almost September of 2025.
Give us a little background on you.
We know you came to the store in January of this year.
Correct?
Where was the store then?
Where is it now?
And you know, what's the current state of affairs?
So the store's been doing well.
They were up quite a bit last year over the year before.
They were, you know, 1100 and then 1500.
And so, you know, things were going great.
I think they just were lacking kind of just
more experienced leadership.
And so I was able to get this opportunity to come on board
and just kind of dial some things up
and just turn it up, take it up a notch.
It's been a lot of fun.
When you say dial some things up,
like what specifically are you looking at
when you come into a store?
And what are the first lever that you're looking to pull
or button that you're looking to push?
Yes, that's a good question.
The first thing I do is I just try to sit back at my house
and take a retail holistic view.
Can I service a oil change appointment on Monday morning?
What car do I like?
You know, do I want to buy it?
Do I have the data I need?
And I found out pretty quickly,
there was just a whole bunch of little things
that weren't being done.
So actually, you know, you've had my twin brother on,
we talk about the business a lot.
And I was like, man, I don't know that this,
I don't know that I want to say it's going to be easy,
but you know, look at this list I've made.
And it's just, it's so basic.
It almost does a disservice to talk about
how basic it is, but it's just a little thing, right?
Photos, we had 390 cars online,
new cars with stock photos,
descriptions and then pricing.
Kia, like a lot of manufacturers has map pricing,
so you've got to play in the rule guideline.
But if you're pushing a stock photo on a vehicle
at MSRP pricing and this major Metroplex that DFW is,
you know, you're not going to get
the most amount of opportunities, right?
So step one was sit my team down,
kind of start with the why, right?
Like show them, here's what I'm looking at.
Here's where we're lacking.
And hey, we got to take 360 pictures today.
So how are we going to do that, right?
And then we'll come up with a plan,
use the whole staff, make a circle around the building,
all that kind of stuff, but get them online,
then spend the tedious amount of time to say,
hey, this car has a third row seat.
You know, so I think it's easy for us car guys
to say every telluride has a third row seat,
but I'm not sure when you're on the cars.com
auto trader, you know, people might not know that.
And so not clicking a button
or not writing it in the description can cost you,
you know, a deal can cost you who knows 100 deals, right?
So it's just a, it's just a culmination of a whole bunch
of the very basic things done every day with intention.
And then, you know, we woke up,
I started last week of January,
store did 104 new and then in February,
we did 146 and then we took that right up to 213.
So it turns out we're sitting on a really good corner.
We've got a great ownership group here.
You know, we've got a great operation.
We've got everything we could need.
We just had to take ourselves to the market really.
I just, I find it so hard to believe that in 2025,
there's still, you know, large players in the market
that are using stock photos.
And I don't mean to disrespect any of our viewership,
but that seems like such low hanging fruit, right?
I mean, if you're telling me step one for you
is just the vehicle merchandising,
making sure that your new cars and new cars
are merchandised correctly.
I mean, this to me is kind of remedial stuff.
How was the, how was the crew when you came in?
I mean, are you looking at the sales department first,
the service department first?
What else are you looking to do?
Yeah, so it was both sales and service, right?
Our service scheduler was broken online.
You know, so I noticed that.
So at the same time, I'm kind of having two conversations
trying to, trying to fix everything at once, right?
Service has been great here.
They're really good.
They perform very strong,
but we've got a big lift there as well.
So, and it's, you know, same thing, right?
It's like, can you schedule an appointment online?
What is our phone call in process look like?
Can you give us some context when you say
the service department's performing well?
Yeah. Oh, sure.
Yeah. So last year they were averaging
559, I'm sorry, 497 last year.
And this year we're up to 559 to fix operations total.
We've had a record month of 603
and then we beat it by 613.
So, you know, I'm trying to find out how high
that bar is where we can set it.
You know, I'm thinking we can,
I'm thinking we can get quite higher than that,
but we're looking to put an extra 790 on the board
this year, if everything stays the same.
So that's pretty nice.
You said something that struck a chord with me.
And I think we talked about it in the past,
setting the bar and resetting the bar.
So I know that you and I are of like mind where it comes to,
hey, great just ends up being normal.
Great is not great anymore.
It's just baseline.
How do you keep your team that may not be as stubborn
as someone like us motivated and, you know,
hungry to continually keep setting and resetting that bar?
It's hard, right?
I mean, I've been fortunate the crew we inherited here,
you know, they've jumped on board pretty quick.
It's nice to have the early wins.
So when you have them sitting here writing descriptions,
you know, super late for a couple of weeks,
they start seeing the benefits of that.
And I've been big on you got to celebrate the wins.
You know, we take a minute, you know, pause for a moment.
But then it's like, hey, we've got to go again, right?
That whole hero to zero adage.
Guys like us, we were raised on that, right?
Like, you know what?
You sold 10 cars yesterday.
Okay. Well, what have you done today?
Right. And so with my, like with my fixed ups director,
I was shown the name of a high jump.
You know, so when we were talking about at high jump as a
failure sport, right?
You go tell you knocked that bar down.
And then next time you get up there and you try to get
over that bar again.
And when you get over it, it's like, yeah,
you can flex and you can throw a party.
But meanwhile, there's two dudes that just raised it up.
And you got to walk back there to the starting line and go beat
that number.
Right.
So it's just a resentless pursuit of perfection, right?
Like we, we have to go, man.
Tomorrow's not promised to me.
And so just preaching that to the crew with my sales guys and
gals and the management team.
You know, so the frontline staff has just kind of painted the
picture that like we have this opportunity.
And we're sitting on top of a goldmine here at this corner
that we're on.
It's just, I mean, it's majestic.
Right.
And we have to go get it today because we don't know what's
going to happen tomorrow.
Right.
We could get turned off again.
I mean, it's unlikely, but.
Hey, Jason, I have a question on so.
Jason question on your, on your tech stack as you,
as you've gone through this transition and you've grown
sales, done a great job.
Have you changed any tech and what tech are you using
just like run us for your overall tech stack of,
you know, you've done a great job.
Sure.
So not, not a lot.
We use tech in as a DMS.
I love it.
This is my first time on it.
I love it.
We got drive centric,
which I'll mention in the last segment.
I believe that's the gold standard,
especially from the operator standpoint.
I mean, the way you can sit here and just look at the
workflow and the leads and go ahead and just tag somebody
and drive centric is definitely second to none.
I mean,
you know,
you know,
drive centric is definitely second to none.
Um,
I use rapid recon for tracking,
um,
or use car reconditioning.
And then everything else we get, you know,
route one,
um, we use the auto provision and stock wave.
So I think we're probably pretty basic as far as that goes.
I mean,
we've got the best tools,
I believe and be auto and drive centric and then
tech,
I mean everybody's got their favorite DMS.
I like tech.
Yeah,
and it's easy to get around.
So,
so I know you're,
you're doing some wonders also in the use car department.
I know in your eyes,
you want to do better.
What that's the,
the sickness in us all, right?
But you're doing a 12 times turn,
which is strong and automotive.
Um,
but you were candid offscreen as far as your,
your days to frontline could be better.
I think you had said that you're,
you're five or six days to frontline.
What are you doing right now to,
to try and shorten that up?
I know we want to be, you know, two, three days out
and we can get that turn even higher,
you know, 12 up to 14, 15 times.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's good question.
I mean, we're,
I think we do a great job.
We track it in rapid recon and that's an all in six days.
So we're up online inside of 12 hours.
We do the detail first.
We take a full photo set and then we get it in for inspection
and start that process.
And then after that, we have our onsite,
we'll repair bumpers,
10 touch up just a, you know,
all inclusive deal that we do,
which is included in the six days.
So when, you know,
so six days up front,
but that's a real like retail ready, um,
pure six days,
but it is marketed inside of 24 hours.
I'm real big on, I used to be, you know,
put the appraisal photos up and just pick the good ones
and then let it go through its process
and take the final pictures up.
We still reshoot the car at the end of the process
and we'll shoot around like a bumper repair
because we know we're going to do it.
But, um, but I've switched gears in the last,
I don't know,
probably 18 months to detail photo first
and then let the process run.
Do you have any in-house policy when it comes to,
I think you had mentioned to me earlier
that you're certifying anything that is certifiable, right?
Which I think is smart
and the best way to gain market share there.
Do you have any policy internally
to kind of speed things up in your service department?
I mean, are you giving them a dollar amount that,
hey, if there's a frontline car,
you don't have to ask me if it's under this, this amount?
Yeah, I've toyed with it
and I've got a stud recon manager that he knows what,
he knows what I, what I will and won't do.
So a lot of times he'll just already be doing it based off
of like, I say 1250 on a, on a fresh car,
1400 if it's a little bit older,
you can pretty much autopilot that.
I still look at it.
My used car approval bucket and rapid is like 0.02.
You know, so I can,
I can approve those pretty much no matter where I am,
you know, outside of like a call like this, right?
But so I haven't rolled out the full automated there, but.
Give us an approval on there.
Come on, Jason, give it to us.
Yeah.
What's a car that just came through?
1250, let's go.
Let's run through them together.
Jason, you, by the way, just a sidebar,
but you mentioned your recon manager is great.
I've hired plenty of recon managers in the past.
What's the, what's the background of your current recon manager?
I mean, everyone or many people on this platform are launching
their own recon facilities and, you know,
growing their reconditioning operations because their used
department is growing.
So I'm curious what is the background of the person.
Yeah, such a, such a good role.
I was lucky and inherited of this guy.
His name's Enrique.
He's just a, he's just a rock star.
I mean, he handles everything.
He, he's over the photo guy.
He does the, the use car stocking process for the third party
acquisitions so that he can get them written up and get them
rolling real good.
You know, kind of doubles as a lot manager third party recon.
We got, we do a lot of lifted trucks.
So some of that stuff we send down to a local company here
that can help us with the alignments or,
or different shocks and whatnot,
but he's really kind of a catch all.
And then in the auto group,
I was able to bring over a long time guy I've worked
with as well.
And I know his background a little more,
but this guy was a stud sales person,
spent a little time on the desk,
wrote a wrote service and a little bit of service manager,
but more of just kind of a Monday to Friday type desire.
Right.
And so, you know,
you got to find the guy that just totally understands parts
and, and retail and,
and obviously communicating with technicians is kind of just,
it can be a skill.
They're human like anybody else,
but you got to kind of know how to motivate those guys.
And so it's,
it's hard to find the right guy,
but when you find the right guy,
you don't want to lose him.
Jason, I got last question for you before we wrap
and we appreciate you coming out on the show.
It's August 2025, almost September.
What is keeping you up at night as the general manager of Kia
in Van, Vanguard Kia, Arlington, Texas.
Making it back on the daily deal alive.
Yeah, that's a good one.
You know what worries me right now is,
me and my buddies and I was talking to our CFO
or I'm sorry, COO the other day,
it's to not make in the fourth quarter
use car mistake that we make every year.
Right.
Oh, we had a big July.
We had a big August below an inventory.
Let's go fill this wagon up.
Right.
And it's like,
how many years in a row do we have to tell each other this
except for then add in,
okay, there's no use cars coming down the pipe.
MMR is going up.
So do I need to load the wagon?
I mean, am I going to get stuck with these cars
or am I going to make money in January?
And so, you know,
when we spoke about where we're at with you is right where,
you know, we're not where we want to be.
And I could push the needle by putting more cars on the ground,
but we're clean and we're lean.
And it's that it's just so tough, right?
Like, I mean, should I buy another hundred?
So, so, so what is your strategy?
What strategy are you going to do?
I'm, I'm kind of in the middle, man.
I'm, you know, I'm first elected.
We're going to stick it in our core.
We've, we've, we've developed a couple of niches outside.
We do big, we do very well with big lifted trucks.
We're doing good with electric.
Use electrics off-brand.
And so we're kind of stacking those and we're stacking the
core real deep.
And we're keeping everything we can.
And just trying to just trying to stay kind of stay more to
there's no Q4, like let's, let's do the best we can without,
you know, just creating a water for us in January.
So I take that you're not stocking up.
Stan Lee.
Well, I'm not intentionally raising the raise.
Well, we love it.
Well, we appreciate you coming out man and coming on the
show.
Well, we'll have to touch base of the agenda.
I mean, we'll have to, you know,
come out man and coming on the show.
Well, we'll have to touch base of the again in the future and
see how far up you got that turn.
Thank you, Jason.
Thanks, Jason.
Yeah, right on.
Yeah.
Thanks for having me and congratulations.
You guys have done great.
All right, come on.
Thanks man.
Thank you man.
Great spotting.
The second he said like we always made the same mistake
in Q4.
I was like, I know exactly what you're going to say.
But I, I, I, there's many different perspectives on this.
And I'm, especially in the last couple of years,
it was all over the place because of, you know,
increasing prices, which I know is an anomaly.
I am curious to see what people think.
Right.
So if you have a phone on this, send us a DM,
put it in the comments right now if you're seeing it live,
email me.
I mean, you can get in touch with me literally every single
way.
Send me, send a dove to my house with like a letter.
I don't care, but tell me, tell me,
tell me what you think about this, right?
The Q4 use car, are you stocking up?
Are you staying, you know, lean and on just,
you know, normal buying cadence.
I am curious to see what people are going to say if their
strategies have shifted, especially this year,
as we've kind of are approaching the trough of,
you know, the use car shortage in terms of
off lease supply re-enter in the market.
So again, even this year from a use car perspective is
going to be a bit different.
Yuli, we're about to wrap up.
I did want us to touch on a quick industry polls.
Saw this interesting comment on LinkedIn and it was
from a gentleman named Jason Barber.
And he wrote public service announcement.
If you as a GM don't have authorization to spend
$10,000 for anything in the dealership that will
make the business money.
The company isn't having you operate as a true GM.
You're doing busyness, not business.
Kind of got me thinking of the Michael Murray
episode on Friday.
By the way, and this was not related to that.
I'm pretty sure he posted this before that episode air.
So completely independent.
What did you think?
I think it's a, it's a strong stance.
And I think it's justified.
I mean, to Michael's defense, when Sam had pressed him on the
question, I mean, he's still encouraging his GMs to bring
or and platform VPs to bring the ideas to him.
I think ultimately he wants final say where the money is
flying, which I don't see anything wrong there.
But I mean, I got the impression at least and maybe
this is anecdotal.
I got the impression that he is giving that flexibility
for one of his employees to bring him.
Hey, we need this.
And he'll sign off on it.
But yeah, I think it's right.
And I think that I think the biggest challenge here is
or the biggest difference maker is your group size,
because I think the bigger the group.
The, you know, you might, you might say, Hey,
there's this $10,000 investment that we can
actually test out in 10 different stores and maybe
get a significant discount.
And there's all these different incentives in play.
And so I don't know the move here is to not give autonomy.
Maybe it's some control in the process where at least,
you know, you get the benchmark with other stores or,
you know, it's always good to get perspective.
So I think this is a, you know, he definitely took
a stance here.
He picked one side.
And I think he's coming from this gentleman.
I don't know him.
He's coming from a good place.
He's just trying to say like, you know, empower your team,
which I fully agree with.
But I think that I'm being practical and different size
groups, right?
Different incentives.
What might be good for one store might not be good
for the entire group.
And that's where it comes into play where you have to
have a little bit more discretion and ask yourself, okay,
sure, maybe you can recommend something that will be
approved 90% of the time, but let's see,
let's showcase it to the entire group.
And maybe while you're going through that signup process,
we get a package deal.
So just thought.
Yeah.
Thank you spot on.
So that wraps it up, Yuli.
That was a fun show.
Always a fun show.
So thank you everyone for watching Daily Dealer Live.
You had us as a co-host or backfilling here for Sam,
who's not with us today, but is back Wednesday.
So that's always great.
And of course, as always,
we bring down the biggest moves in the car business as they happen.
Don't forget to like, subscribe, follow the show, share it,
fill in our guest request sheet at CDGS.com as we mentioned
earlier in the show.
And that wraps it up.
We'll see you on Wednesday.
We'll see you next time.
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