00:00
I was thinking on the line where I'm saying 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s,
00:03
do you want to alternate on the date? So I say 50s, you say 60s. No.
00:09
This is The Tire Kickers, classic car chat with Max and Matt.
00:16
Welcome to episode 50, that's 5-0 of The Tire Kickers. And to celebrate the big 5-0,
00:22
we're going to ask the biggest question of all time. Yes, what is causing that oiling?
00:28
No, bigger than that, what was the best decade for classic cars? Was it the 50s,
00:33
60s, 70s, 80s or the 1990s? The Tire Kickers. Yes, we're going to head to head each decade,
00:41
pick out the choice cars and have a heated debate, or to find out which era was best.
00:47
Well, you don't like the 90s though, do you? And you're always moaning about 50s cars,
00:51
so I reckon you'll just say the 60s. Ah, young Max, you may be surprised,
00:55
but let's delay no more and get on with picking the best classic car decade ever.
01:00
It's episode 50 of The Tire Kickers.
01:11
Well, well, well, well, here we are then, Max, episode 50 when some said we wouldn't get past
01:16
episode 5. The doubters. Yeah, the doubters. In fact, we've been churning out this rubbish now
01:21
for a couple of years, haven't we? And we've done probably a lot more than 50 episodes.
01:26
Yeah, because as well as the studio ones, we've done loads of specials, like the classic car
01:29
shows at the NEC, that cool classic car pizza place. We've done bonus episodes, you went
01:34
racing triumphs around a track, I did the train talks with the dealers like the Motorhub in the
01:39
Cotswolds, and also volume one of the classic car soundtracks. Remind me what that one,
01:43
oh, was that you revving stuff up? Yeah, that was me sitting in a car revving it up and
01:47
stretching it out for 35 minutes. I seem to remember with that one, that was,
01:51
you were building this as part of some series, and then there was only ever one. Are you going
01:55
to do some more of those? Like all good bands, you know, the second album is quite tricky,
01:59
the second album will come, but it just requires me to put some effort in, and you know that's
02:03
always a bit of a struggle. Send us some ideas on what cars Max should rev up for the next one,
02:07
that'd be quite good. All of those, you can listen to those by the way, you can scroll back,
02:11
if you've not heard some of those, you've missed some of the 60 episodes, go back and find them,
02:15
lose yourself in some of that. If you do get even backwards to our first episode, you will get a
02:20
medal for that, or some sort of special sticker. Or some sympathy, like one of those Mr Men stickers
02:25
you used to get if you got a bruise. Yeah, a second winner sticker you'll get. So for this
02:30
landmark episode, we thought we'd talk about a topic that we've always touched upon,
02:33
but never quite got stuck into, which is, which decade produced the best classic cars?
02:40
We're going to have to limit this, aren't we, because it's going to go a bit about control
02:44
otherwise. So let's limit it to the years between 1950 and 2000, because in my mind,
02:52
cars after 2000 aren't really classic yet. I don't really agree with that, because look at the
02:58
Aston Martin V8 Vantage, hand-built British V8, Audi R8, Honda S2000, Subaru and Pretzer, WRX,
03:06
STI, Lotus Elise, I mean, there's a lot of good cars after 2000. Exactly. No, that's more scratch
03:11
and sniff than us. Let them get on, they can yap about that if you want to listen to that sort
03:14
of stuff. We're here for the true classics, Max, and the decades between like the 50s and the 2000
03:19
summer, I think, what we're about. And this also gives us something to talk about. And Tim
03:23
Ellis, I thought we'd just argue about millennial modern classics. So let's stick to that, 1950
03:28
to 2000, which is the best decade? Okay, fair enough. So let's start with curves, big steering
03:33
wheels and cars that could catapult you straight to A&E. You're listening to the tyre kickers
03:39
with Max and Matt. Yes, we're going back to the 50s. When Britain and Europe were finally getting
03:45
back on the road after years of wall rushing and generally making do with rain, potholes and having
03:51
no money. Oh, no, that bit's now. That's not a flashback. That's yesterday. Now, in the 50s,
03:57
things were starting to look up car wise. Suddenly, there were families heading to the seaside,
04:02
dads polishing chrome on a Sunday and engines coughing into life on cold, damp mornings.
04:07
Yeah, we look at 50s cars now as having sort of charm. But at the time, you've got to remember
04:12
that people needed patience, they needed strong legs for the brakes to stop. And then they also
04:17
had to just accept the fact that Rust was probably eating the car away as it was sat on the driveway.
04:23
Yeah, cars like the Mini, Rover P4, Morris Minor, Rolls Royce, Silver Cloud and the Ford Anglia
04:29
all went on sale in the 1950s. As well as the sporty ones as well, Max. So the Jag XK120,
04:36
140, the what, the Triumph TR2, the MGA and the Austin 80100 as well. All those iconic design
04:43
sweeping lines. I mean, there were still wow cars to this day and actually kind of looked like planes,
04:48
didn't they, a lot of them? Well, I suppose a lot of that aircraft design from the Second World War
04:53
was left over, wasn't it? So lots of people took the kind of aerodynamics that they thought worked
04:57
because it wasn't properly tested and stuck it out. But I mean, you're right, there's lots to
05:00
choose from. My opening shot for a car that is the pick of the 50s from us, it's one of the favorite
05:06
Cinderella slippers of our cars, I suppose, because we love it, but we can't get into it.
05:11
That makes us the ugly sisters. Have a look at this on your screen. This is a 1954 Jaguar XK120.
05:18
Steel wheels, gray spotlights, red leather interior, XK120. Now, I saw one of these a couple of years
05:25
ago at the classic Motav, actually, and put it on Instagram because it just looked so perfect.
05:32
And it still does. This one's got spats. It's just got that aerodynamic styling. I mean, it wasn't
05:37
particularly aerodynamic, but it had the styling as though it was and just looks like the perfect
05:42
classic sports car. If you were a child and you had to draw a sports car, I think you'd come up with
05:47
that. It's a real torment to this car, isn't it? Because it looks, as you say, beautiful. You know,
05:53
if you had the money for it, I would get one. But we tried to sit in that X120, didn't we? And
05:59
it was just, I mean, you're a svelte guy. You can normally get yourself into most cars, but even
06:05
you struggle with it. I mean, I could barely get into it. I'm six foot. I could barely get into it.
06:09
And I certainly couldn't drive it, I don't think. I mean, I'd love to have a go at it because I'm
06:13
sure I could break bones in order to get in that car and drive it because I love it so much.
06:18
But I'm not sure how much you could live with it. And is it a better car to look at than to own
06:23
or drive? Yeah, I think so. And I think we might get into that on the 50s ones. I think a lot of
06:27
them are probably better to look at than on drugs because they are beautiful. But I mean, I managed
06:31
to sort of get myself in it. And then I could actually move my clutch leg at all. It was completely
06:36
wedged. So this is a slight problem in terms of driving it. But as you say, beautiful, beautiful
06:41
car. I would have one and put it on a plinth. We mentioned that the 50s were was a decade of
06:45
beautiful roadsters. And my first choice on this is a roadster as well. And it's a car that I would
06:50
happily have in my garage downstairs. This was launched in 52. It went on sale the next year.
06:57
It is of course, a Healy 100. In this case, 106. And have a look at this one. This is the 1958 one.
07:03
This is 106. So the sixth one. 35,000 pounds in blue with steel wheels,
07:11
blue hood. They are great, these. I mean, there's some flaws in them, which we'll get into. Actually,
07:17
and I think this is the problem with 50s cars, living with them is the problem. Let's get straight
07:20
into it. The windows. They won't wind up windows. You have to put them in and out.
07:25
I think you just take them off and put them behind the seat, don't you?
07:27
And the roof was probably an absolute ball egg to get off and put on on this. So, you know,
07:32
that they're really, it's not designed on no seat belts as well. I know they race these cars,
07:37
but I didn't feel, I didn't gel with one of these straight away, actually, to drive.
07:41
I found it very, I think it was on cross-plies and I found it very scuttly and not very settling
07:47
to drive, especially that no seat belt and that sort of stuff. But in terms of an aesthetic,
07:51
I think they are just stunning cars. You know, I have a look at it now on the screen and even
07:55
parked up, it looks like it's going fast. It's got those kind of lines that just indicate speed.
08:01
And it looks live and it looks sporty. And then you get in them and they drive like a double-decker
08:06
bus. So it's, again, you know, the fifties is this kind of triumph of appearance over what
08:12
they're actually like to drive, because I love heelies, but I don't particularly like driving
08:17
them. You know, it's a bit like that series Landrovis, you know, I just love them. But every time
08:20
I get into behind the wheel, I kind of think, oh, yeah, it's not quite as nice as it looks.
08:25
And I think that's the problem with the heelies, isn't it? The later ones are a bit better, but
08:28
those are a bit bus-like, to be honest. Yeah, I mean, talking to cars are a little pretty and
08:32
a bit difficult to drive. What about that Mercedes with the flappy doors?
08:35
Well, exactly. I think this has got to be the most beautiful car of the 1950s,
08:39
the Mercedes 300 SL Gullwing, the world's first production car with fuel injection.
08:44
The designer had had some previous experience on the model called the Meshesmith Bf109, I think.
08:50
But surely the Gullwing doors make this one of the most iconic cars ever. It's up on your screen
08:54
now with the Gullwing doors up, and it's in that kind of Mercedes silver chrome wheels. I mean,
09:00
that's just absolutely drop dead gorgeous. It's not typical of the fifties, though, is it? I mean,
09:04
in terms of design, it sort of streets ahead, isn't it? I mean, it's like a spaceship,
09:09
isn't it, this thing? There's not a bad angle or crease or part of this car.
09:13
You spend all that money, though, and the steering wheel comes off in your hand. I mean,
09:16
it's a bit rubbish, isn't it? Because you took the wheel off to get in, didn't you?
09:22
And then put it back. It kind of hinged, isn't it? So it hinged, and then you could squeeze in.
09:26
But I mean, I don't care. You know, that's the kind of car that I would drive without seatbelts,
09:30
because if you did die behind the wheel of that, that's hell of a way to go. Most stuff in the
09:34
50s did look like the Healy. I mean, Honourable mention for the MGA, I think MGA is a great
09:38
trick, Carl. Not probably, again, not the easiest to live with, you know, they didn't have overdrive,
09:43
a lot of them. You've got to be fairly small to drive those as well as a common theme of the fifties.
09:48
But they do look great. I mean, MGA, so Honourable mention for that, I would have put that in,
09:51
but it's like a sort of scaled down Healy a little bit, isn't it? So I can't say that.
09:54
You've nicked my other car, the XK120, I would have gone for that as a 50. So I'm going to
09:58
left field. Over in France, over the channel in 55, they launched a spaceship or a goddess,
10:04
the DS. So I want to put this in, the Citroën DS. Have a look at this one. I found a Citroën
10:08
DS Palace. You driven one of these Citroën DSs, and they're an experience, aren't they?
10:14
Yeah, they're lovely. I mean, I really loved it. I loved everything about this DS. It's kind of
10:18
slow and the engine's not great, but just the way you waft along, it's kind of probably equal to a
10:23
Silver Shadow and that kind of perfect ride quality, but just needed a better engine in the DS,
10:30
and it never really got one. So what we're saying about the 50s in Max, we're saying like the cars
10:33
look pretty, didn't they? But just weren't that great to drive? Yeah, better to look at than to
10:37
drive, be in or own, I think. Episode 50 of the tyre kickers, and it's the battle of the classic
10:48
car decades, and now we're talking the 1960s, the decade when cars stopped being purely sensible
10:54
and started getting a little bit exciting. Britain had the MGB, Europe had gorgeous Italian sports
10:59
cars, and suddenly performance, style and youth mattered as much as practicality. Now, if you
11:05
want a snapshot of the 60s on four wheels, it runs from tiny runabouts to proper design classics.
11:10
You've got cars like the Mini Cooper, Renault 4 and Fiat 500, putting ordinary families on the road,
11:16
simple, cheap and absolutely everywhere. Not glamorous at all, but they defined everyday life.
11:22
Then came the cool stuff, the Jagi type, the Porsche 911, MGB, Alpha Spyder, Lotus Elan,
11:28
and Triumph TR4. Now, all made performance feel attainable and fun rather than exotic. Suddenly
11:34
driving wasn't just about getting there, it was how you got there and how you arrived.
11:40
Then at the top end were the icons that still stop people in their tracks, the Aston Martin Db5,
11:44
the Lamborghini Mura, the Ford Mustang and Rolls Royce Silver Shadow. The 60s feel like the decade
11:50
the modern car was born. Practical, fast, and mostly for the first time, genuinely cool.
11:56
So if you put all that together, the 60s start feeling like the moment the car
11:59
world burst into colour. So with that in mind, Max, where the hell do you start?
12:04
Well, you've got to start at the top, and I think probably Ferrari, the 250 GTO,
12:08
lots of race pedigree, 26 built, now over, what are they, 40 million quid?
12:14
Surely that's got to be number one in the 60s. So I think though, none for sale in the UK,
12:18
and one of your caveats for this was the cars have to be on sale in the UK.
12:22
So that's out, that's not contender. So have you got something a little bit less,
12:26
I don't know, lottery win, perhaps? For the 60s, it's quite a tough choice,
12:30
because this was the decade of the kind of every man sports car, wasn't it? The TRs,
12:33
Spitfires, your Sunbeam Alpine, Alpha Spiders, and of course, the MGB. I mean, look at the MGB.
12:40
Well, yeah, I mean, it's easy to just skate over that, but I think the MGB is the gateway drug
12:43
for classic cars. It's the one that most non-classic car people could describe.
12:48
It's the one that turns heads, and it's the one that gets people into classic cars. And as we've
12:52
said, you know, before, you know, you've got to argue that once you realise the choice you've got
12:57
of classic cars from the 60s, maybe the MGB isn't the pinnacle. However, I think it is,
13:02
they are brilliant at what they do, and they are the entry point for classic cars. And,
13:07
you know, it doesn't matter whether you've, it's your first car or your 10th car,
13:10
an MGB will do all the things you want it to do. Here's one from 67. This is what people would
13:16
sort of imagine as the kind of quintessential MGB. It's the chrome-bumpered roadster in red,
13:22
on wire wheels. This one's up for nearly 20 grand, which is quite a lot. But I mean, this is the
13:29
red sports car that people, they imagine going down the B roads, avoiding the potholes.
13:34
Yeah, exactly. I mean, this is your definitive sports car of Britain of the 1960s, wasn't it?
13:40
Because everybody could afford one. They're reasonably good to drive. You know, they're
13:44
okay now. There's lots of parts and stuff. But then I think they were quite advanced. And also,
13:49
they were cheap. You know, they churned them out, and they were affordable.
13:52
And this is the one that you really want. Picture 26 has got, it's got the spoke steering wheel.
13:57
This one's been restored. I mean, look at the engine bay in there. Oh my God. I don't
14:01
normally get excited about MGBs, but this is so clean. You don't need to spend 20 grand for an
14:05
MGB. You can spend anywhere between sort of five and eight and get a really good one that's just
14:09
as much fun. You can go for the rubber bumpers one. They're not bad. You know, they're not quite as
14:12
nice to drive. They're pretty good. Yeah, MGB, I think, is a good one for the 60s. I think it is
14:17
the gateway drug into cars. And I probably would have gone for an Alfa Spider Max as well for the
14:22
60s. I mean, both you and I both love the Botel Spider. Yeah, absolutely. And that was launched
14:27
in the 60s. The graduate was a defining, defining car, but I mean, very, very similar to that last
14:31
one. So you've got to go to talk about probably there's two cars that are very, very 60s, the
14:38
Mini Cooper, or also the other one that defined the 60s. You've owned one. They are the ones that
14:43
still pull the crowd to car meets. They are probably the most iconic designed classic car.
14:50
And that is the i-set. No, it's not. It's the Jaguar E-Type.
14:54
It's the Jaguar E-Type. You can't beat an E-Type, can you? I mean, this one's just popped up on the
14:57
screen now and you just look at it. This is a Series 1.5. So it still has all the nice Series 1
15:02
features, but it's just perfect, isn't it? I mean, what could you improve there on an E-Type,
15:07
apart from making it a bit less hot when you're driving it in the summer? Yeah, and I've picked
15:10
the Coupe to talk about here, because obviously the Roadster is the one that people aspire to,
15:16
but the Coupe, I mean, you've owned a Coupe. And that three-quarter from the back of a Coupe,
15:21
it's just such a beautiful, slipper shape, isn't it? There's no drawbacks to an E-Type at the
15:25
moment. They look good. They go, well, there's lots of parts. And in period, they were spot on.
15:29
You know, they were plentiful. They were cheap. They were a lot cheaper than most other exotic
15:34
stuff on the market. I don't see anything in the 60s that was better, apart from... Now,
15:42
I've said before on this podcast, but I think the Ferrari Dino 246 is the world's prettiest car,
15:48
and I'd probably have to put it in front of an E-Type and put the E-Type in second place, I think.
15:53
Controversial. When was it launched to Dino 246? I think of it as a 70s car. It was in 69. 69,
15:59
you've just scraped in there. Yeah, I have. Just about. The thing about the 60s is it was such an
16:04
explosion in car ownership, and the choice just suddenly exploded as well. I mean, those cars we
16:08
talked about in the 50s were unattainable for most people, a lot of them. The Heady was probably
16:12
out of the realm. The 120 was probably out of the realms of most people. But you could get into
16:16
cheap sports cars. You could get into MGs. There were... The Sunbeam Alpine was... I mean, they were
16:21
about 900 pounds in the mid 60s. You know, still not cheap, but affordable if you wanted to go for
16:26
it. And there was an explosion in loads of cars. And, you know, we sort of glossing over all the
16:30
Hilmer mixes and things like that. I mean, they were, you know, Ford Anglers. There were loads and
16:34
loads of runabout cars. And then there were the sort of super snipes and the mid-range executive
16:39
cars and the Rover P5. Would that have been 60s? Yeah, it would have been, I suppose. You know,
16:45
there's lots and lots of just loads and loads of cars and then all the sports cars. So it's really
16:49
difficult to kind of narrow it down, but it does make it a strong contender for the best decade,
16:53
I think. The other 60s designs you think about. Lamborghini Miura. Well, that was our price for
16:58
most people. Ford Mustang in the States. I mean, that's a good everyman car, a bit like the E-Type,
17:02
isn't it? I think 60s cars are pretty usable still, aren't they? I mean, they're not hard
17:07
workers are driving a 50s car. They're easier. By modern standards, they're hard work. You know,
17:12
driving an MGB by modern standards is hard work. But if you want to drive it's a classic, usable.
17:17
Parts are readily available. You know, you can get everything for most 60s cars these days
17:22
from eBay or off the internet or people are remanufacturing stuff. So actually living with
17:28
the 60s classics not too much hard work and they're usually fairly simple to work on as well.
17:33
Yeah, it's, you know, it's heading towards the decade of choice, isn't it? And also we've not
17:36
even mentioned the Porsche 911 that came out in the 60s. I mean, that was a defining design that's
17:41
still around today, isn't it? So there were some absolute crackers. I mean, Aston Martin DB5,
17:46
Mini Cooper you said earlier, you know, all of these, including the MGB, were just cars that
17:51
were great at the time and are still pretty good now. I think if you think of classic cars,
17:55
you probably think of 60s cars. Now to the 1970s when car design began to take a backseat to things
18:04
like safety and passengers or being able to see out and occasionally starting twice in a row.
18:10
Yeah, very advanced. Now if you want to understand the 70s through its cars, it's a kind of decade
18:15
that swings between sensible survival and full blown swagger. Cars like the Cortina Mark 3,
18:22
the Austin Agro, VW Golf, Renault 5, they all became everyday transport across Britain and Europe.
18:28
Then you had the fun stuff, often loud, bright and slightly outrageous. So the Ford Capri and its
18:33
various models, the Porsche 911 Turbo, the Lancia Stratos or the Citroen SM. Surely you can't get
18:41
much more 70s than this. Look at this SM on your screen now. And you can imagine having sideburns
18:46
and flares and smoking a cigarette, storming down a French auto route. It's got bits of the future
18:52
attached to bits of the past. And so it's got that 60s hint of being glamorous,
18:56
but it's got that slightly futuristic 70s sort of spaceship look about it.
19:00
Yeah, I mean, if you think of like fashions, the 60s was about, you know, tight lines,
19:05
mini skirts, you know, sharp fitting suits. And the 70s obviously sideburns and lots of hair everywhere
19:11
and flares. And only in the 70s would they go, let's design a car that looks weird, weird in a good
19:17
way. How can we like beef it up? I don't know, let's put a Maserati engine in it because, you
19:23
know, that'll make it cool. Let's have six headlights and let's make them swiveling this.
19:29
Let's make it complicated. Yeah, let's make it really complicated.
19:32
But they're meant to, they probably don't in reality.
19:34
They're meant to be done more. Yeah, hydraulic probably don't work. Let's make it really
19:37
hydraulic and complicated. It's a very bloke car, isn't it? I mean, it's a very, you know,
19:42
medallion man car. It is a kind of medallion man car, isn't it? Because it's slightly showy,
19:46
isn't it? There's a there's a whiff of aftershave and cigar smoke around this car.
19:50
Yeah, it's a hairy chested south of France car, isn't it? You mentioned about the 60s clothes.
19:55
Now about the 70s, you know, flared trousers were ridiculous. They are ridiculous. They look
20:00
ridiculous. And every time they've come back, they've been a bit more ridiculous. But the
20:03
Citroen SM was ridiculous as well, a bit like flares. But it was just so emblematic of the 70s
20:09
because it was cutting edge technology, most of which doesn't still work. But it just was
20:14
trying to be something different. And it stuck out. And that for me is why the Citroen SM is such
20:19
a good 70s car, because it was very different. It was very ambitious. Some of it didn't work.
20:24
But when it did work, it was really cool. Staying on the continent. Let's talk about some
20:28
Italian cars. Let's talk about alphas, because I wanted to pick an alpha spider as a 60s car.
20:35
Well, coming into the 70s, I think there were there were a lot of these coupes about, you know,
20:40
full vias and like the 105 alphas and that sort of stuff. Look at this one. This was launched in
20:46
the early 70s. 1971, I think it was, this is 73 version, Alfa Romeo GTB 2000. So it's the
20:55
coupé. This one's in sort of a burgundy red, the four headlights, round headlights on the front.
21:00
And those coupes were just so 70s cool, they weren't as big and brash as the cars that we
21:06
were making in Britain and and also the SM as well. They were a lot more live and sporty and
21:11
classy. And look at the interior on this one, Max. I mean, this is this is why I love alpha
21:16
interiors. I mean, I love the car. Don't get me wrong. I mean, all of all the car at every angle
21:19
of it looks fantastic. But it's just those I mean, tan leather seats. Oh, you know, walnut
21:25
steering wheel with this dish. Oh, those pinnacle dials. I would have one of these. I would love
21:32
one of these cars. And I think I think after this decade finished, I think a lot of this got
21:38
ironed out. We'll get on to 80 shortly. But I think a lot of this style, a lot of these curves
21:43
got flattened in the name of progress. And I think this is a real sweet spot for me because
21:48
it's Italian 70s. It's just a bit classier. Yeah, I see it's a 70s car. But for me, that
21:54
feels like a 60s car. I do love the Alpha GTB, but I'm going to show you a different car here,
21:59
a 60s design, but a car that came out in the 70s. And for me, if you ever complained about the
22:03
British motor industry in the 1970s, then this is the antidote. This is a 1972 Land Rover Range Rover
22:10
Suffix A. So this is the first Range Rover, the first model. And these are just so fantastic.
22:16
They embody the 70s for me because the two door ran all the way to 1981. This is the mother and
22:22
father of all SUVs. I know the Jeep Wagon Air came first. But I think this is actually what
22:27
encapsulated what an SUV should be and is about. Fantastic 3.5-litre V8, pretty crummy gearbox,
22:35
which is really whiny, but a great design. You sit in that and you think you're riding
22:39
above the rest of the world. This is a great car and a great testament to British 70s design
22:45
and manufacturing. But yeah, I mean, I think it's a very, very iconic car. One of the things
22:50
70s got maybe in common with all the decade is rust and these things rust for fun, don't they?
22:55
Yeah, they do. They rust from the inside out. But if you remember, if you go back to the 70s,
22:59
you know, right through to 1981, there was a waiting list for these two door Range Rovers
23:04
because they were so popular and they sold so well abroad. I mean, one of the limiting factors was
23:09
BL didn't make enough of V8s because they were used in the Rover P6 and then the SD1 and then
23:15
the NGB GT V8 and also the Range Rover. So there was a shortage of these engines. But for that,
23:20
you know, there'd be probably twice or three times the amount of Range Rovers around
23:24
from the 1970s now. So it was a real success story. It's what I'm trying to say. You know,
23:29
the 70s were always seen as a dark period for British car manufacturing, but there were
23:33
bright spots and this Range Rover Suffix A is one of them.
23:36
I see what you mean about the Alfa, actually, the Alfa Coupe thinking about it. I'm going to kick
23:39
that into the 60s because as you say, it's more of a 60s delicate car, isn't it? Even though that
23:44
particular car was manufactured in the 70s to the mid 70s, you're right. 70s cars are more
23:49
more brutalist, aren't they? You know, they're more like the Lotus Esprit. They're more like,
23:54
you know, that fat wedge, you know, it's a big butch cars. They're more like the Jaguar XJ6.
24:00
Those are 70s cars, aren't they? Did you mention an Esprit by any chance?
24:04
I did. Did you say Esprit? Esprit? Esprit? You mean my favorite car from the 1970s.
24:08
Here's a 1977 Lotus Esprit S1 in The Spy Who Love Me White with the correct
24:14
wolf race alloys and also a green interior. Now, this is another great piece of British
24:19
70s design. You know, it's the wedge. I know you don't like wedges and pop-up headlights,
24:24
but I do. And I think the Esprit embodies all that's good about the 1970s because it's such
24:29
a fantastic design. You know, it's like a piece of paper going through the air. It's so thin and
24:35
so wedgy and so different to what came before. You know, we're talking about 60s designs that were
24:40
beautiful and like that Alpha GTV was a delicate looking car. This is a thug of a car. It's a
24:46
thug of a wedge. And that's why I really like it because it's so 70s. It kind of defined
24:51
what car design was about. That aerodynamics was coming in, but cars and sports cars had to look
24:57
very different. And this certainly stood out. Yeah, it's wedgy. It's butch. I mean, it's a
25:01
bon car. You can't not like it. One of the things that this does point that it does illuminate,
25:06
though, is the old parts bin problem of the 70s. Morris Marina door handles,
25:12
Sherpa indicators on a cool sports car. Well, you may recognize those from your triumph stag,
25:18
to be honest. It's not just the Lotus that offended in those quarters. I've got the same
25:22
switch gear. It doesn't, it shouldn't matter, but it's one of the things that, you know,
25:25
severed the 70s. We did see cost cutting coming in and, you know, things cheeping out and things
25:31
weren't particularly well built. But I agree. This is this is a very, very 70s car, isn't it?
25:37
And it is a pin up car. You know, for a lot of people, this has been a pin up car. And, you
25:41
know, it's one that they really, you know, always, always wanted, whether you get, you know, it's
25:46
easy to live with. I've got a friend who's got one, you know, they're not, they're not the
25:49
easiest to live with. No, it's the answer to that really. I mean, not the reputation of catching
25:54
fire. But you know, then and then they don't always work very well. But you know, certain
26:00
cars you do have to buy with open eyes. And this is one of them. But I mean, it is,
26:04
it is an iconic car. So yeah, that is more 70s. I'm going to go for, I mentioned an XJ6,
26:09
a Jaguar XJ6. I'm going to throw an XJC in because I think it sort of sums up the 70s
26:15
to me. I mean, XJ6 sums up the 70s, but XJC is probably just a bit cooler. We had obviously
26:21
the petrol crisis of the early 70s. And cars were then, there was a little rush in the early
26:27
70s to send us all these little tiny cars, wasn't there? One, two, sevens and everything had to
26:31
be fuel efficient. And then obviously something after the fuel shortages, people forgot about
26:36
that, petrol went cheap again. And suddenly cars went thirsty again, didn't they? I mean,
26:41
the Jags, the XJ6s had two petrol, famously had two petrol tanks. XJC has got two petrol tanks.
26:47
And fuel economy was notoriously very, very bad in the 70s, wasn't it? Because there were a lot
26:51
big-engined cars that were very heavy, weren't particularly aerodynamic. I mean, they're
26:57
popping their spree. But if you buy a 70s car, one of the things you will be doing is seeing
27:02
a lot of petrol stations, isn't it? Yeah, particularly with the V12. I think this XJC
27:06
is a really interesting car because they took a saloon and chopped it down. And that was becoming
27:10
more and more popular because you could use basically a platform you already had and then
27:15
just turn it into a second option of a car. And this is still a pretty looking car, isn't it?
27:19
They are very nice looking. Yeah. And again, very, very sort of puffed up. It is puffed up.
27:26
The 60s were slender cars. The 70s were these butch cars, as you say. I mean, if you get in
27:31
an XJC, everything's a bit wider, fatter, thicker, isn't it? That's mainly just the drivers.
27:39
No, but you're right. They're going from those kind of delicate designs of the 60s
27:43
into something just a bit more bluff. And I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's
27:48
something more butch, I think, isn't it? These cars were looking less feminine and a bit more
27:53
aggressive and male. Yeah, it was very blokey, wasn't it? I mean, a triumph stag. Another one
27:57
that I thrown for the 70s, you know, a great car. It was sold as a butch car, wasn't it? I mean,
28:02
it looks like a little car now, but it was a butch car with a butch engine that was for
28:06
blokes. A lot of these cars were just pitched out blokes, weren't they? And then the female cars
28:10
were the sort of Austin Allegro's and the little cars and that sort of stuff. It was a very sort of
28:14
sexist sort of decade, wasn't it? Yes. Yeah, that's exactly right, yeah. I think if you want
28:19
a butch car, they're not subtle cars from the 70s, are they? So if you're going to own a classic
28:23
car from the 70s, it is going to be a bit of a thumper, isn't it? I mean, American cars, you
28:28
know, they had in the 70s the Pontiac Transam that's smoky in the bandit, the Stardyn smoky in the
28:33
bandit. Yeah, and you look at the evolution, you talk about American cars, look at the evolution
28:36
of the Corvette by the time it got to the 70s. That was another butch car. We talked about fashion
28:40
and I think the cars are like fashion. The fashion in the 60s was, you know, sort of clean lines and
28:46
the 70s were just big and brash, wasn't it? And the cars were very, very similar. Don't forget,
28:50
you can find us at the TireKickers UK on Instagram and the TireKickers on Facebook.
28:56
Episode 50, the TireKickers and we're talking about the best classic car decade of all time.
29:01
Coming up shortly, we'll be getting our highlights done and whacking on a Chade cassette to talk
29:05
through the 80s. But first, Max, you have some hot news. Yes, not only have we hit 50 episodes,
29:12
I've had a visit from the men in white coats, which is actually our team with our team with the
29:18
Science-based Audience Lab and they've been crunching the numbers and say with Episode 50,
29:24
we have hit 50,000 downloads. Now hang on a sec, I've been down the shops and bought this.
29:33
No expense spent. Yeah, thank you for that. I mean, 50,000 downloads for an audio podcast is an
29:39
immense amount. And it is your support that keeps us doing this. If no one listens, we'd just be
29:44
talking to each other, which was what happened at the start. It was a very good way of having a chat,
29:50
wasn't it? You'd be going through auction catalogs folding the corners and I'd be watching stuff,
29:54
really, really intense boring stuff about Triumph Stags on YouTube. So thank you for keeping us from
29:59
that. Well, no, that's what we're still doing. Oh, yeah, we still do that. We enjoy talking about
30:05
this and it's fueled our love of cars and your interaction as well has helped fuel that as well.
30:11
So thank you for keeping it going. Most podcast, Max, only last about sort of three to five episodes
30:16
and then die of death. And we've done about 60 now, including all the sorts of specialties.
30:21
Close on 65, isn't it? I wish we had died to death at three. It would have been so much easier.
30:27
We're still here. Now we've got to keep going. Still going.
30:34
Just sipping a little tea, hang on.
30:37
Tea or gin? Oh, I wish. I probably just had a cup of tea, so I'll need another break in about
30:43
five to ten minutes. Go right to me. If we can enter an extended show, I'd have to factor in
30:49
Lou Breaks. Episode 50 of the Thai Kickers and we're talking the best classic car decade ever
30:59
and we're now into the 80s, the decade that style forgot as I was wearing fleck trousers from Fosters
31:06
and a lemon polo top. But it was also the decade that gave us turbo lag, big body kits for base
31:11
capris and the Peugeot 205 GTI. Yes, because if 70s cars were butch and chaotic, the 80s felt
31:18
like someone had tidied everything up and added a turbo. Everyday cars like the Ford Sierra,
31:23
Austin Metro, VW, Golf Mark II and 205 were sharper, more modern and sort of much nicer to live with.
31:30
They were improved on reliability. The aerodynamics mattered and shapes became a bit less sexual
31:37
and sexy and just a bit more sleek. But then came the heroes, the hot hatches and poster cars
31:43
that defined a generation. So the Golf GTI, the 205 GTI from Peugeot, the Ford Escort, RS Turbo,
31:50
the BMW M3 and Porsche 911 Carrera made speed accessible and hugely desirable. This is where
31:57
performance moved from specialist sports cars to something you could park outside a semi in Slough.
32:02
At the top end, XS was back on the menu. Cars like Lamborghini Clintash, they grew wings,
32:07
they got louder and shouted success and excess, whether that came from the city or business or
32:12
pop music or maybe dodgy imports from Colombia. Put it all together and the 80s felt like a decade of
32:18
confidence, sharp suits, big hair and engines that sometimes started every morning.
32:23
Yeah, it's true, reliability got better. Cars became more modern. I think we lost the stuff that
32:29
hung over into the 70s, the individual dials. I mean, taking those dials apart, my triumph
32:33
stag, they were still very similar to 60s dials. By the time the 80s came along, things went into
32:37
clusters, didn't they? Cars got modernized. You might have had a digital dashboard, imagine that.
32:41
Well, a talking dashboard in the Monty was a maestro. Technology was advancing a lot and cars
32:48
obviously reflected the technological advances as well as the fashion. And by the time we got into
32:53
80s, the early 80s were still quite lean and still a hangover from the financial problems of
33:00
the 70s. But music was sort of two-tone and new wave and the cars were quite basic. So you think
33:06
like an escort from the start of the 80s was quite stripped down, minimal. And we didn't see a lot of
33:11
stuff on cars until the 80s started moving through. So in the case of like 83, 84, by the time we
33:16
get to mid 80s and later, things started having electric windows and talking dashboards and more
33:22
stuff on cars. And cars got more reliable and cars got more usable and more dependable.
33:27
But maybe a little bit more boring, I don't know. Yeah, I think so. Well, again, this was the era
33:32
that you stop making specialist cars that sold, you know, 200, 300, 400 because it didn't make
33:37
any money. And you just turned your base saloon car into something special. There were still good
33:42
cars around. I mean, on the screen now, this is one of your favorites, is it? This is a 1982 BMW
33:48
635 CSI Coupe. Now, these still look fantastic, the kind of sharp nose coupes. And you like these,
33:54
don't you? Yeah, I don't think it was completely indicative of cars that you saw around in the
33:58
80s. It's still quite a rare thing. But I remember this particular car, because a mate's dad had one
34:03
of these. And it was the first time I've ever seen an everyday car look amazing. I was, you know,
34:07
seeing this in the flesh, beautifully sort of sharp lines, teutonic lines. When we were surrounded by,
34:14
you know, a lot of British cars, basically the 80s, Cortina's and Vauxhall's and stuff like that,
34:19
which were a bit boring. And this was like, oh, wow, look at this thing, because it was sporty
34:24
and aggressive and sharp. And fast. I mean, these were really fast, these BMWs. Yeah, and very,
34:30
very 80s. If you think of it, it's very yuppie 80s, this, isn't it? You know, this car, it would,
34:35
you know, it's a bit like your Porsches with the big whale tails on it. It's got that aggression.
34:38
So yeah, the 80s, the tech, the tech was there. The style became, it wasn't all, did the cars
34:45
reflect the fashion of the 80s? I think it was more about the economics, because, you know,
34:49
this was a decade of pimping up existing cars rather than making a new one. Like, for example,
34:54
we've already mentioned it, the Peugeot 205 becoming the GTI, the Renault 5 becoming the turbo,
35:00
that kind of Audi Coupe, which was the two, which was a good looking car, just the two-wheel
35:03
drive, front-wheel drive became the Quattro, the Lancia Delta went to the Intergrale.
35:08
Yeah. You know, even the Sierra turned into the Cosworth. Manufacturers had to make more of their
35:13
platforms. And sort of that scaling up of cars was quite popular and you got hot hatches. But at
35:19
the same time, it was a bit boring. But there was one genuine new design, which I think became the
35:25
80s icon. And that was on Miami Vice, the Ferrari Testarossa, 12 cylinders. Now, you're always
35:30
going to be having a good day when you've got 12 cylinders behind you. It's mid-engined. I know it
35:35
was wide for the 1980s, but now it's considered a modern design. Here's one for sale. I think we
35:40
forget with these Testarosses just how shocking they were in the 1980s when they came out, because
35:44
they were so big and wide. And, you know, you put that next to your shopping 205 or your shopping
35:50
Renault 5 and that is an amazing car. You know, at the time, I don't think they were appreciated,
35:55
but they really are coming into their own now. They went through a dip and I think they're quite
35:59
popular again the Testarosses. Do you like them? I think that's dated quite well, actually. I think
36:04
it's actually dated better now than it looked in the 80s. Yeah, I remember it being ugly at the time.
36:09
It was really flash at the time as well, wasn't it? It was like Rod Stewart's car, wasn't it?
36:13
It was a pop-style car of this. Do you know this is Rod Stewart's car? Oh, is it? I didn't know
36:19
that. I didn't know that. I think it's dated. You said they were really big back in the 80s. I wonder
36:24
what that would look like now next to a Kia EV6 or whatever. It's probably about the same size,
36:29
isn't it? Well, I know which one I prefer to get into. Well, I know, yeah, yeah. But no,
36:32
in terms of cars getting big, I mean, look at the back, the shots of the back of it. So this is
36:35
Rod Stewart's car. I mean, are you okay? Perhaps you don't want to talk about it. I don't know,
36:42
you know. Is that Rod Stewart reference? I'm not really okay with Rod's music. Sorry. Wake
36:48
up, Maggie. Come on. Let's talk about this car. Here we go. Is he selling it or is it just the
36:53
one that he had? One song by legendary musician Rod Stewart. I like they have to put in legendary
36:58
musician just in case he did this. Oh, I don't mean the other Rod Stewart from Down the Garden
37:02
Center. Oh, yeah. Rod, is that your Tester Rosser? So, I mean, this is 140,000 if you fancy a bit
37:08
of Rod Stewart's car. I mean, I think they do look good. It is very 80s, isn't it? I mean,
37:12
80s was a mixture of, as you say, every man. And I think that's really interesting. Come back to
37:17
every man thing, because I think that's why I don't like the 80s as a classic car,
37:21
at era too much. But I think also the 80s was flash, wasn't it? It was big whale tailed porches
37:26
and big flash sports cars like this. But this one's actually dated really well. So, it's an
37:30
interesting one to look at. I think the 80s were every man cars. I mean, I think the reason I can't
37:37
get excited about an Escort RS Turbo past my test in it, but I can't get excited about it because
37:42
it was just a kind of tricked up version of the every man car. And I think a lot of the cars were
37:47
like that. And the hot hatches, as you say, were revered for being great fun to drive, but were
37:53
just pimped up versions of the shopper car, weren't they? The problem for me for the 80s is that if
37:58
you're a non-car person and you saw a car go by, it could just be a Golf or it could be a Golf GTI.
38:04
You know, you don't mistake an E-type, do you? But lots of people can mistake a 205 or a Golf
38:08
for a normal shopping current. And that for me is the problem with the 80s because they were just
38:12
exploiting their existing platforms with some turbos and some spoilers and some stickers,
38:17
but actually they weren't new cars. That's why for me, the Tester Ross is the pick,
38:22
because it's a brand on its own. It's a car on its own. It's iconic. It's not just a spin-off of
38:28
a different shopping model. You know, that badge snobbery kind of came to the fore in the 80s.
38:32
I mean, you had it in the 70s with your HLs and your HLSs, but it was much more about your body
38:36
kit. Is it a GTI or is it just the average one? Is it this? Is it that? The 80s was a decade
38:42
where it's, but certainly towards the mid to late 80s, it became more about materialism and
38:46
flashiness. You know, that loads of money thing and having a big flashy car. Cars got more body
38:51
kitted and a bit more ugly actually. But I think for me, I don't think there was that many memorable
38:56
cars from the 80s. I mean, we talked about the BMW 635, but nothing really that gets my juices
39:02
flowing apart from a couple. I mean, honorable mentions from me. Saab 900, I think, is really
39:08
an interesting one. Although that was kind of all, you know, that's kind of a 70s car, isn't it?
39:12
Isn't it? Launched in early 80s, 90 Saab. Hold on a minute. Challenging. Hold on.
39:18
Yeah, I mean, it was moving on from the 99, wasn't it? So it wasn't really a new car in itself.
39:24
Was it? Well, hold on a minute. Tell me, when was it launched? Oh yeah, you're right. 1978. All right.
39:32
Okay, I've got that wrong. Anyway, the other car I was going to mention was one that I revered in
39:38
the 80s. I would have one of these. Alfa Romeo, Alphasit. In particular, this one, 1983, 1.5
39:46
quadrifolia. And this is the spit of the one that my mate Tim had. He had a couple of Alphasits and
39:51
this was his best one he had. And ah, they were fun to drive. I remember driving that. I mean,
39:57
the pedals were super, super thin like pencils. And for my big Claude Oppers, I couldn't, you know,
40:01
a bit too thingy. But it was, it had style. It had real style and flair. But again, it comes
40:07
about to your point. It's a tricked up hatchback, isn't it? Yeah, it's a kind of Alphasit with,
40:12
again, with a bit of a spoiler and some alloy wheels and some stickers. And that's the problem,
40:16
mate. I love Alphasits as well. But this is not a kind of car on its own. It was a hot version of
40:20
an existing car. And that for me is the crime of the 1980s. So we're getting to the conclusion that
40:26
the 80s, although the cars advanced, maybe they lost a little bit of style, apart from a few
40:31
notable exceptions. I just don't think you got those great show stopping designs like the 60s,
40:36
like you had the Porsche 911, the Jaguar E-Type, etc. There was a lot of part sharing and then
40:40
all the cars started to look a bit samey. And then you don't really get that drop dead looks
40:45
that you got on the 60s and some of the kind of Brutus 70s cars. Reliability got better,
40:50
the technology got better, but maybe the style got lost. And that's the 80s.
40:54
The tyre kickers. It's the quest to find the best classic car decade. And we've come from
40:59
the 80s. We're now in the 90s because if the 80s were sharp and confident, the 90s started by
41:05
melting everything in the oven. Everyday cars like the Ford Mondeo, the Vauxhall Vectra,
41:11
VW Golf Mark III and the Renault Clio, they were all round sensible and as bad as exciting as a
41:17
microwave. They were better in every measurable way than what I'd come before. Just not necessarily
41:23
to look at. Yeah, performance though was a different story. You've got the Subaru Impreza,
41:27
the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo, the BMW M3, the Porsche 911, 964 and then the 993s.
41:33
They proved you could still have serious fun, often with a big wing and a soundtrack borrowed
41:38
from a rally stage. This is where speed became usable on every single wet roundabout,
41:44
not just something for sunny Sunday country lanes. Meanwhile, at the top end, luxury cars,
41:49
you had the Mercedes S-Class, BMW 7 Series, the Range Rover P38. They're all aiming for tech and
41:55
comfort over glamour with so-so visual results. I mean, some are magnificent, others look like
42:02
they've been designed by Focus Group in a hotel conference room. If you put it all together,
42:07
the 90s, for me, it feels like a decade of brilliant engineering, but the styling
42:12
was pretty boring and it's taken a long time and it will take a long time for that to become
42:17
fashionable again, I think. The jelly mold that the Sierra was initially criticised for just got
42:22
worse with the Mondeo and that was the way that cars were produced, isn't it? The manufacturers
42:28
just churned out boring stuff and occasionally they threw a halo car in to make you think that
42:33
that whole range was interesting, but on the whole it wasn't. It was just the halo car was
42:37
quite good and the rest of the range was extremely dull. I really struggled on this to pick cars.
42:43
I really, really struggled. I mean, this has been hard, actually, I will say. It's actually hard
42:47
if you try and try this game at home and get a pencil on a bit of paper and try and write down
42:51
like two cars or four cars from the best cars from that decade. It's hard to pick them,
42:56
especially when you've got a lot of choice in the 50s, 60s, 70s. I've got the 90s, I've got the same
43:00
max already struggling. I only managed to pick one and that was the Mercedes R129, which I know
43:05
you love. I don't think it's the best of the SLs, but I think out of the 90s, if I have to pick
43:11
something, it does look good. It is becoming a classic. As time is moving on, its looks are
43:18
improving. It was a wow car in the 90s. I mean, it's a real wow car. It was a very, very flash car.
43:24
It was all their sales worth through the decades, but I remember it being a pretty pin-up car
43:28
in the 90s, but other than that, I'm really struggling.
43:33
Even the R129, which I love, is a bit blobby, isn't it, compared to the R107 mine.
43:38
It's not an arresting design, is it? It doesn't make you stop and go, wow.
43:43
And that's the problem with the 90s. Lots of things had to blend in and they were curved and
43:47
rounded off and nothing was there to make you go, oh my goodness, look at that car that's driving
43:52
past. And this SL, the R129, it was a technological tour de force, as they used to say, an auto car
43:58
all the time, because everything that Mercedes were doing in technology was rammed into this car.
44:03
And it's a great driving car. It's got a beautiful engine in the V8 and then they put a V12 in it.
44:08
Yeah, the looks are the kind of one weak part of this car.
44:11
Yeah, so other than that, then, you're looking at these hero cars,
44:13
you mentioned like the Imprzza. I mean, that was a hero car, wasn't it?
44:17
Always coming sideways around a country lane near you.
44:19
Exactly that. But I mean, that was a memorable car from the 90s, but for me, that's then not
44:24
becoming, I know it's technically a classic car, but that feels too modern for me.
44:30
Well, here's one in your screen now. I'm going to try and make you love the Imprzza.
44:32
This is a two door. It's called a Type R, so most of them were four doors.
44:37
This is a two door, white with gold wheels. I mean, you know, I like Imprzza,
44:42
even I struggle with this one because the exterior is not that different.
44:47
And then you look at the interior, you just go, oh, God, Japanese shopping car from the 1990s.
44:52
I mean, you know, interiors are my thing, but, you know, they are the bit you interact with
44:57
the car. And as you say, this is very, you know, parts bin, and it very molded and 90s.
45:04
And there's just no effort. No effort has been involved. There's a leather stitched gear knob
45:08
that is about it for that on the interior. And this is the problem with the 90s, isn't it?
45:13
The people were just expected to put up with a, with a bare minimum. There was no flare or
45:18
flourish or design language to it. It was just a bog standard interior. I don't, there's apart
45:24
from a turbo gauge on this Imprzza, which I think might be aftermarket. I can't see anything
45:30
that isn't just standard Japanese saloon fare. But you bought it to slide it around,
45:34
didn't you? You didn't buy it for the interior. It's just, it's, it's the like the joke that
45:38
they used to have with alphas, you know, you buy the engine, get the rest chucked in for nothing.
45:41
And, and it's very much on this car. It does look like it's just come out of the,
45:45
the same, the same parts bin as the, as the average shopper car. So yeah, they leave me,
45:49
they leave me a bit cold. I know that I know they're iconic cars. I know these are iconic cars,
45:54
but I just, just do nothing from you whatsoever. I'm going to try and sell you on the 90s
45:58
with this. It's on your screen now. It's a 1995 Ferrari F355. Now these came after the
46:06
348, which is pretty underwhelming as a Ferrari shouldn't be. The 355 is a brilliant handling,
46:13
brilliant driving car, but the looks, I mean, it's still not that an exciting looking car,
46:19
is it? You know, I do love the 355. I think it's a wonderful, wonderful car, but I can't
46:25
sell you on the looks really, because it's, you know, it's not a Testerosa, is it? It's got hints
46:29
of Testerosa design, but it's just a bit boring. Even, even Ferrari were a bit boring in the 1990s.
46:35
Yeah, it's not memorable, is it? I mean, I just had to Google what a modern look like,
46:40
because I thought it looked very similar to a modern race or a TAS to me.
46:43
Yeah. So, you know, and that's, that's what 10, 15, 20 years apart, is it? You know, I mean,
46:49
it's just... The 360 followed the three. The modern, the 360, modern followed the 355, but
46:53
the 355 was still quite an advanced car, but, you know, you spend a lot of money on it. It didn't
47:00
really shout anything apart from midsize Italian sports car. Yeah, I mean, it's not, you're going
47:05
to have fun in that. And that is a, it is a wow car, but I'd rather have that one from the 80s,
47:09
the Rod Stewart one. I think that's a bit more... Yeah, because you would have fun in it, but it's
47:12
just the design. It's not shouting fun, is it? It's shouting kind of like blob.
47:16
It's interesting, the demographic is shifting now. I mean, they're saying that 50s and 60s cars
47:19
aren't really selling because the demographic's moving on. People are more into modern classics
47:23
than more to 80s stuff. But I wonder what, is that shifts to the 90s? What's going to happen?
47:27
Because it's really hard to get excited about a Vauxhall Vectra. Cars just didn't stand out.
47:33
They were designed to be anonymous and blobby. I'm just looking on car and classic. You can
47:37
choose by decade on car and classic and some looking what's, what was kicking around the 90s
47:41
If you just found that now at the end of this program, right?
47:44
No, I'm explaining to the listener. Just in case the listener doesn't...
47:47
That would have been quite useful at the beginning.
47:49
I know you've got a PhD in car and classic, but not everybody has. But anyway, the point being is
47:53
I'm clicking on what would be, what's seen as a classic because once it sort of starts going
47:57
to car and classic, it's kind of generally considered a classic. They've got a Vauxhall
48:00
Corsa on there. 1.4 high tall breeze. What? That's not a classic car, but spooning through,
48:08
you've got a Rover 100, Porsche 944, super impressed that we talked about, Saab 900,
48:15
an E220 Mercedes Cabriolet. They're quite cool.
48:19
Quite cool. They're still, you know, the W124 is still a bit of a blam, isn't it?
48:23
Yeah, Jaguar XJS is. They're still kicking around in the 90s.
48:26
Oh, they were passed their Saab by days ago.
48:28
Yeah, they were. Alpha 156 is a bit boring. Minis, Jaguar XK, something just quite boring.
48:36
Renault Clio Williams 95 again. Yeah, a shopping car with, you know, stickers.
48:43
Yeah, I'm just clicking through and there's nothing that's kind of leaping out going,
48:46
oh, wow, I really want that. You know, Golf Mark II, MGR V8. Well, you know,
48:51
that's a mashup of a 60s car, isn't it? I'm trying to freshen up the 60s car.
48:56
Lamborghini Diablo Roadster, 474,000. Kind of irrelevant for us, isn't it?
49:02
And then you've got the sort of the big flashcard, the Bentley is yours.
49:06
60 grand, 1997 Bentley is your convertible. Mitsubishi 3000, you know.
49:12
Don't know what that looks like. Oh, it's like an MR2.
49:15
Oh, right, okay. But I'm clicking through and a Morgan plus eight,
49:18
but that's an old design, isn't it? Yeah, that's a 50s design, isn't it?
49:21
50s design. Lancia Delta Integrale. Now, this is an interesting thing,
49:25
I mean, that's an 80s car, isn't it? Yeah, and it's also a shopping Lancia Delta,
49:29
isn't it? I mean, obviously, there's a lot more to the Integrale, but still the body work,
49:33
the look of it is a Delta. Yeah, but it's not the bodywork. Again,
49:37
you bought the engine and the performance of that. The bodywork is nothing to get excited
49:40
about particularly, was it? And then Porsche 968, you know, it's just nothing.
49:44
Yeah, but kind of leaping out. That was, you know, the evolution of the 968 from the 944
49:49
from the 924. That was a bit dull as well, wasn't it? Yeah, I'm just clicking on page
49:53
five now. I still haven't found a BMW Z3. Now, okay, maybe that's, they're becoming
49:59
interesting, aren't they? Yeah, pretty, unless you got the 2.8, it was a pretty weedy engine,
50:03
it was that 1.9, it was, it was slower. Oh, MX-5, that's a good pick from the 90s,
50:09
isn't it? 1996 MX-5, eight and a half. That's a good car. That's a good car to come from the 90s,
50:14
but other than that, I've got to say, I'm now on page six, and I haven't found anything that
50:18
other than the MX-5 to get excited about. Can you really get excited about an MX-5?
50:22
Well, I've just googled MX-5 launch, and the first one came out in 89, and then the second
50:29
one came out in 97. So, I mean, yeah, 90s cars still doesn't make me that excited.
50:35
No, that is the gateway drug for the younger generation to get into classic cars. I mean,
50:38
MX-5, you've seen those turning up at meets now. So, I think it's serving a purpose from that,
50:43
but I've got to say, I'm now on page seven, and I'm still not getting excited. Still struggling.
50:48
Audi 80, you know, boring. Oh, we didn't talk about Audi Quattro for the 80s,
50:52
actually. That would have been a quite good one. You mentioned it. Yeah, I've got to mention it.
50:56
Okay, I wasn't listening. Sorry. Thanks. He's just going off on one, I think.
51:02
But yeah, the 90s, I've got to say, I've said this before. Design-wise, it's just a bit
51:07
to me. I don't think it's a memorable decade. It's not going on the list for me.
51:10
Think they're right or think they're wrong? Shoot us the notes on our socials and let us know.
51:15
We're at the Tire Kickers UK on Insta and the Tire Kickers on Facebook. Yes, it's episode 50
51:21
of the Tire Kickers, a landmark episode and a landmark debate to decide the best classic car.
51:26
We've done the 50s. We've done the 60s, the 70s, the 80s, and we've just done the 90s,
51:32
but which was the best classic car decade? It's a tough one, Max. What are you thinking?
51:37
Well, you see, it's interesting because before I did this, I thought it was going to be the 1970s
51:42
because the Citroen SM, the Lotus Esprit, et cetera. But while we've been doing this program,
51:48
the problem with that is the SM was designed in the 60s and lots of cars that I like from
51:52
the 70s were 60s cars. So the Citroen SM, the Range Rover. Okay, it came out in 1970,
51:57
but it's clearly a 60s design. The Rover P6 I really like from the 70s, but that was a 60s car.
52:03
That's in 240z. We didn't mention that, but we did a few episodes ago. Again, you know,
52:08
1969 car. So it's interesting, isn't it? Because I love 70s cars. I love that kind
52:13
of like brutish look to them. But when you look at 60s cars, they just look nicer. And I go back
52:20
to that Ferrari Dino 246 and the Jaguar E-Type, which I think are the two greatest looking cars of
52:25
all time. And I just think the 60s were it. You had that design. You had the freedom of design
52:31
because you weren't trapped by aerodynamics and passenger safety. You can actually pretty much
52:36
just draw a car with a pen and that would make production. And for me, I think the 60s wins.
52:42
Yeah, it's an interesting one for me because my opinion has changed as we've been talking about
52:45
this. And you're right at the top of the show. You said, oh, you're going to pick the 60s, aren't
52:49
you? And I said, no, no, I'm not. And I'm sort of, I've changed my mind as things have come about.
52:54
Here's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking the 50s are the cars that I drew all over.
52:58
You know, in terms of the cars that spin my head around like an hour when I go to car meet.
53:02
So generally 50s cars, not because I hanker for the 50s. It's just, I love the curves.
53:07
I love the craftsmanship and the engineering. I love that the interiors are like leather,
53:13
you know, restored 50s cars just look, you know, the Healy's, the 120s, those, the MGA's,
53:19
if they're in pristine condition, they look great. And then you can see the craftsmanship
53:23
and the engineering. However, we've talked about 50s cars, one of the things that came up is they're
53:27
not very easy to live with. So 50s for me, design wise, if I'm just picking a decade based on the
53:33
prettiest cars, I probably would go for the 50s. So, but you know, we've got a factor in what's
53:39
the best classic car decade. And I think probably in that is the best ones to own. So then you
53:44
fast forward to the 70s. Now the 70s probably a sweet spot of owning a classic car because
53:49
the cars did become butch, but they were a bit more advanced. So there'd been a couple of decades
53:54
to kind of slightly improve things. And you did get a few more luxuries on them. And they were
53:59
built for a bit more comfort. But they were a bit butch and ugly. So you then in the 60s,
54:05
now I haven't mentioned the 80s, 90s, 90s, forget it. No, not for me. 80s, we've touched upon,
54:10
they were good cars, but they were just a bit utilitarian. And they were they were sort of
54:16
butched up. So then I'm back to which is the best classic car decade. And I think which is the decade
54:21
that's got the most choice, the most availability, the one that you can get into easy, you can get
54:26
any type of car you want, what's the car to easily own, what's the car that you'll,
54:30
you'll have something in common with somebody else because they'll also own one. And I think
54:34
it is probably the 60s haven't decided yet. I think that's where I'm going.
54:38
Well, if you look through the decades, I mean, the 50s for me, it's great if you want to look
54:42
at a car, if you want to stick a car on a plinth in a glass box, then you get a car from the 50s.
54:48
We've talked about 90s cars, they're just too bland. You know, 80s cars, they were just using
54:52
platform sharing and putting stickers on it. 70s, they were just a bit strange. They were quite good,
54:58
but just a bit odd. But again, if you want to go back and look at a car, and then drive it,
55:03
and then also be seen in it, so people look at you and think, well, that's a nice car.
55:08
It's the 60s again, isn't it? Probably the E type or the MGB.
55:13
I have this thing, it's like the garage test, you know, if you pull the garage door up,
55:18
what car's going to make your heart flutter? And for me, it's probably, it's not an 80s,
55:23
not a 90s. 50s, yes, if I pop the garage door up and sat there was an MGA. I thought, wow,
55:29
look at that. But what I want to own it, it wouldn't be very comfortable for me to drive,
55:34
so it's going to be very difficult. You know, it hasn't got windows, you're going to have to,
55:37
oh, you know, it's a lot of fat. Same with the Healy as well. Amazing car. I love the look of
55:41
the Healy. I'm always jealous when I see people driving a Healy in the summer, you know, just
55:45
ratting it down the dual carriageway. I just think they look great. Having driven one,
55:49
again, I kind of didn't gel with it. So you're then onto the 60s, and the 60s has got their
55:54
choice. The 70s are very livable. And I think the garage door went up on a, I've had a Jag in
55:59
the garage, yeah, that looked great. I've had a Lotus, a Spray in the garage, yeah, that looked
56:02
great. You know, I think it would still give me the thing, but I just, by then, even a stag,
56:07
I would say, is sort of ugly and beautiful. You know, the stag that I own, I still open the
56:11
garage and I get pleasure from it, but I still look at bits of it and go, hmm, it's not quite as
56:15
pretty as the dashboard. Well, just the design, you know, I mean, it can look, from some angles,
56:23
it looks pretty and from some angles, it doesn't. You know, it's a bit of an, it's a bit of, you
56:27
know, like a 70s, a little bit of ungainliness about a stag. You know, I know some stag owners
56:32
will go, what is the one of the nicest cars? It kind of beats a bit and look a bit slabby.
56:36
Whereas a 60s, 60s cars without sweet spot, you know, you think of the roadsters and you think
56:42
of the alphas and you think of the, even the luxury cars just have that sort of style and grace.
56:48
And then you've got the classic car design, the classic classic, which is the E-Type in the 60s.
56:54
I think there's plenty of choice, whether you have a Mini or you have an MGB or you have a
56:58
Sumbi Malpine or you have something else, you know, the 60s has got that choice. I think it is
57:02
the perfect sweet spot of classic cars. I've kind of gone through this program with, with a conclusion
57:07
about the 60s, but also I've got a secondary conclusion, which is Ferrari. Now, every decade
57:14
I've looked at a kind of Ferrari has stuck out as being a really nice car. So the 60s, well,
57:19
the 50s was the 250 GTO. Okay, that's just ridiculous, the 40 million. The late 60s was the
57:24
246 GT, the Dino. The 70s was a 308 GTB. The 80s was the Testarossa. And the 90s was the 355.
57:31
We're going to cross out the 90s and the 355. But in every decade for me, Ferrari has delivered
57:37
a really good looking and iconic design for that particular decade. So I wonder here, even though
57:44
I like the 60s, is actually I would make a second conclusion that I think a life goal for me now
57:50
is at some point to own a Ferrari, because they are keeping the flame alive for car fans.
57:57
And while other cars have gone boring and shopping and hot hatch and GTI and turbo, actually Ferrari
58:03
have stuck to it and carried on designing really good looking cars that summed up the decade. You
58:09
know, the Testarossa is the car of the 80s from Miami Vice. The 308 GTB was the car from the 70s,
58:16
and that was in Magnum PI, although I think that might have been an 80s show. But for me,
58:20
it's the 60s decade, but also as a manufacturer, Ferrari has, has kept that flame alive.
58:25
You might be on your own there. Not for the first time.
58:30
And not a very relatable car. And also, I can't say when Ferrari generally turn up
58:34
shows and car meet, I don't look at them unless they're a 60s one or they're a Dino.
58:41
They're the 60s ones and the Dinos. So the only ones I look at the rest, the wedgie ones,
58:46
not for me. I think the thing that will, the one for me that's been the theme in this
58:50
is the alphas, actually. I've owned one, but I owned an 80s one. And like we've talked about in
58:56
the 80s, by the time the 80s came around, they'd made it quite boring. You know, friends got the
59:00
70s one, really, really like that. And we talked about the boat tail, really, really like that.
59:05
I love those coupes. The alphas are quite like a barometer of how things change because in the 60s,
59:09
they were stylish. In the 70s, they were sort of hanging on to that style. And then they became
59:14
a bit more planned, didn't they? As things went on into the 80s and the 90s, they became planned.
59:18
So I think classic cars are very, very similar. But I think an alpha, I think now I'm sort of
59:22
thinking, oh, what, what, what, I really like, I really like a 105 coupé. I really would like a
59:28
105 coupé. And I'd really like probably a 70s spider. That's for me, which will,
59:33
which will make my friend Lee laugh because he's, he's got one. Otherwise, I think the 70s,
59:38
a Jag XJC, or probably my next car, you know, something like that. But in terms of the, the
59:43
best decade, yeah, I think for me, it is the 60s.
59:46
So like a school essay to conclude, we quite like the 1960s and we quite like Italian cars.
59:52
Yet I drive an 80s German Merc and you drive a 70s British BL.
59:56
British Leyland. Yeah, what's gone wrong?
59:58
I think we've made a bit of a mistake here.
00:00
We have. But the fun of the fun of classic cars, the fun of this hobby is that there's
00:04
so much to choose from. We are so, you know, we moan a lot about living in Britain. But one of
00:08
the things that we've got is just this abundance of old cars. And I think there's a really
00:13
interesting thing happening at the moment. We've noticed this trend, you know, through the last
00:17
episodes, you know, stuff at auctions, the old stuff is not, is not going for big money anymore.
00:21
If you now is the time, if you want to indulge your classic car fantasies of buying stuff,
00:27
you know, Ferrari's aside, you know, you can pick up stuff from the 60s and the 50s quite cheap now,
00:32
and you can enjoy it. Even a 70s stuff is not going for a lot. The opportunity now,
00:37
if you if you've always lusted over chrome bumper cars, it is a perfect time to get them.
00:42
And we are lucky because there's so much choice. And there's so many cars being sold in this country.
00:47
So here is the short conclusion. After 50 episodes, we're both thinking the 1960s,
00:52
and we're both thinking Italian cars. So is there the glimmer of agreement between us?
00:57
Well, hold on a minute. This can't happen. This will upset the force field. We can't agree on
01:03
stuff. Yeah, I think we are actually, aren't we? We are agreeing that the 60s and Italian cars are
01:08
of the thing. But that's a that's it, which is the best manufacturer of classic cars. That's
01:12
another show. But I think we've both agreed that the 60s, the choices there, lots of cars available,
01:17
lots of choice, you can have a roadster, and then you could go to a luxury thing,
01:21
you know, you can have a design icon, and you can have a mini, which was the iconic car of the
01:26
little car of the 60s. There's just so much choice. I think it's the sweet spot, really.
01:39
Phew. Well, that is it for the great debate of episode 50. In the next episode, we go back to
01:45
normal, yapping about a few different things like guilty pleasures. What are the bland classics that
01:51
really get your juices flowing? Also, I want to know what is the best pop up headlight? Which car
01:56
has the best wink? Which is the best winker? That and more coming next time. If you've enjoyed
02:02
this episode, please spread the word, tell a friend and help grow the show. But until next time,
02:07
enjoy your cars and hang on in there. Spring is nearly here. Goodbye. Alleluia. Goodbye.
02:22
Excess was back on the menu. Cars like the Lamborghini Countache, they grew wings, they
02:27
got loud and shouted success and excess, whether that came from business, pop music,
02:31
the city or imports from Colombia. You don't say that. That's quite funny, though.
02:39
Thanks. I do try. Was that you for that? Yeah. Okay. Blimey. 50 episodes, he's finally written
02:46
something funny. I've written a gag. Put it all together. Let me do it again.
