BCA Aston Barclay merger given green light, Group 1 to axe more dealerships, and the 'rampant' rise of Chinese car brands – episode 241, with Mark Docherty

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Welcome back to the Cardiola Podcast, where we pick our favourite stories of the week

and ask an industry guest to choose which were the bests.

I'm John Ray, and joining me this week, probably with a slightly dodgy back, it's James Baggott.

James, how are you?

How's your spine?

Spine's average, John.

Thank you, average.

But the listeners don't want to hear about my ailments, do they?

No, they do, because you had some very expensive back surgery, didn't you, Matt?

A year ago or so.

Two years ago, John, two years ago.

They replaced two discs in my spine and put a cage around the bottom of it.

Went in the front and the back for fans of surgery, was pretty grim.

Yes, it all worked very well until the other night, watching some TV, you sneezed and undid

all the good work.

That's when you know you're old, is it?

When you sneeze and you crock your back.

Or when you wake up in the morning and you're in more pain than when you went to sleep.

I'm definitely feeling very old.

Thanks for bringing that up on the podcast, John.

I'm glad you made a note of it and said you would.

I hate you.

Anyway, how was your trip back to deepest, darkest Kent last night?

Very nice, actually.

Did you have a KFC?

No, I didn't.

I did a U and I went to M&S and bought some air-fryable chicken.

Why am I telling people this?

I don't know.

You've been buying, I mean, I was going to say, what's been happening?

What's been exciting with you?

Your sales have picked up a bit, haven't they?

They have, indeed.

It's been a good week, actually.

Very good week.

We sold nine cars this week.

Two trade and the rest retail.

So, yeah, very, very pleased with that.

So, two of them on dealer weight, which was good.

They sort of didn't fit our stock profile.

One had been in stock a little bit too long, moved it on, made a very small profit.

But nice to get our money back on it and move it again.

But, yeah, retail really picked up.

It just seems to have had loads of calls.

Got some people coming to see some cars tomorrow and one this afternoon.

So, hopefully January will end with a bit of a bang, because it's been a weird, weird month.

The start of it was so quiet.

Then we went on holiday and Luke looked after the place and he was pretty quiet,

sold a couple of cars, but then, like mid-month, it really took off.

So, and I think January might end up being our best ever month,

which is, I wouldn't have said that at the start of this month.

You know, listeners to this podcast have probably heard me moan about it in the last couple of weeks.

So, yeah, it's funny how it changes.

And I think, you know, when it comes to retail, it's just,

I know I've mentioned it before.

It's the unpredictability that I just can't get mad at.

I know.

This is that I cannot tell, because you've got your cars in so many places,

I can't actually tell when you've sold some things,

until you walk in the dealership and you check out the clever car collection wine cellar

just above the sink, which is full of the bottles of wine that you give away,

as I thank you for taking away your kipikantos.

And, you know, not the other day.

It was completely rammed.

It was like a proper cellar, like Waitrose would have been proud of it,

which is where most of it came from.

And today, yeah, like nothing in there.

So, you can see how suddenly everything's picked up.

Yeah, that's been good.

Lots of cars turned up as well.

I love it when a transporter loaded cars turned up,

which they did on Tuesday, no Monday, I think it was.

It was reasonably stressful, 12 cars could turn up at the same time,

but I find it really, really exciting.

I love it.

So, yeah, that was good.

It's in this week's video, which you probably be able to watch tonight

if we managed to edit in time.

So, yeah, it's been a good week.

I'm feeling positive, but now going away for two weeks,

because we're heading to America, right?

We've got some amazing travels ahead.

Yes, indeed, yeah.

Hopefully, we'll stop us buying more things on Nitsubo as well.

Yeah, but we'll be talking about it next week, won't we?

We're going to be at Narda for the conference next week,

reporting back on that all week,

doing some video content.

We're going to be doing a special podcast

from the conference,

and then John and I are heading across

to Pennsylvania

from Vegas afterwards

to do a video

at the largest car auction in America,

which is going to be very exciting.

So, yeah, I'm excited.

What's the town called?

B.C.A., no, Mannheim.

That's the one.

That's what the town is called?

Yes, it's called Mannheim, Pennsylvania.

That's why Mannheim is called Mannheim.

Is it really?

Wow, that's an interesting fact from my video.

Thanks for doing some research.

Anyway, should we stop waffling?

Introduce our guest.

Yes, so our guest this week

is the man responsible for keeping Keppelkar collection

stock clean.

No, it's not Luke,

or the man from the handcar watch down the road.

It's of course, marketing manager

at Autoclimb, Mark Docherty.

Mark, lovely to see you.

Good to see you too as well.

Nice to see you, John.

You can't tell Mark that we'd take a car to a hand car wash.

I mean, that was a surefire way

of ending the podcast immediately.

Only when he's busy.

Looking on, we've discussed.

Mark, lovely to see you.

You've given us lots of advice

and tips and help over the years

and certainly helped shape

the way that we clean the cars

at Clever Car Collection,

which I sort of want to talk about.

But I mean, firstly, just for those people listening,

do a little bit of an introduction

for people who may not have heard of Autoclimb,

which I think is probably quite unlikely,

but do it anyway.

Well, hopefully the listeners to this podcast

will at least have heard of Autoclimb

if not be using it themselves

either at home or in their business.

But the brief history is

so Autoclimb started in 1965

and it started in the UK

by a guy that wanted a way

to turn pre-owned cars

into as newer condition as possible

to get them ready for resale.

So Autoclimb actually starts in the car dealer industry,

starts with a small range of products

and at the time,

polishing a car,

you put the polish on

and then you almost had to take a hammer and chisel

to get it off again.

So it was very, very difficult to use.

Results were variable

and that's where Autoclimb really kind of

led with their polish.

So it was really easy to put on.

Great results, really easy to take off as well.

Didn't go hard.

And for about 15 years or so

it was a trade-only product

so we sold exclusively into car dealerships

into the trade

and it got to the point where customers were kind of saying

what are you using on that car?

How did you get the car so good?

And people were doing like we jam jars of it out the back

take this home kind of thing

until we realized there was an opportunity

for consumers at home

so in the kind of early 80s

we launched the retail line

and that's where

now the products are in kind of Halfords

and Amazon, your independent motor factors and so on

and that's probably where most people know us now

because there'll be a polish in their garage

their dad used it

there's a lot of that kind of my dad used it

you know, stuff coming through

which is really lovely stories

but now people discover us online

and as I say in the shelves online

and shelves in Halfords and so on

so yeah

so that's the kind of history we've got

the kind of newest additions

I suppose are

we clean buses and trains

which is like my passion

I didn't even realize I had

till I got involved in that

I'm not out there with a notebook

I'm not jotting down route timetables and stuff

but the bus industry is a lot of fun

a lot of kind of characters in there

kind of like the motor trades

it's like big people, it's a real people business

which is fun

and the last bit is our kind of

dealer opportunity

with paint protection

so we have a product called Lifeshine

so that's sold exclusively in the UK

to car dealers

as an after sales opportunity for dealers

so we're kind of adding value for people with a new car

to kind of keep the car looking newer for longer

and it's a great opportunity for dealers

to kind of get a bit more money out of the chassis already

so yeah

Mark, how long have you been with the business

and what got you involved in it?

so I've been with Autoglim since 2001

my first day was

September the 10th 2001

which is the only reason I can remember it

before a very memorable day

so yeah I've done

I basically

like probably a lot of people would never plan to do it

I went to Union Portsmouth

so not too far from where you guys are

and I was assured in my first year

you didn't have to do any work

this is like don't do anything

so I took this on board

and then spectacularly failed

my first year

and thought maybe university isn't for me

because you know I've really enjoyed not

doing academic work actually

and just started temping at Autoglim

so I went back to my hometown in Letchworth

living mom and dad

attempting Autoglim

and my first days were putting lids on bottles

and bottles on boxes

and enjoying the business

did that for a couple of years

and then I moved into the quality team

so we're really strong on quality controls

you can imagine every single thing we make

is tested and looked at in depth

so I looked after that department

for a few years

and then it was an opportunity to move into

online marketing

so at the time we didn't have a dedicated online marketer

it was like you know

someone should probably look after the Facebook group

these are dedicated functions now

in any big business

but at the time it was kind of

probably find someone should do that

so that kind of moved me into marketing

and that's where I've been for over 10 years now

so various functions

started in consumer

so kind of white bottles at home

and then more recently moved across to trade

and you absolutely love it on the B2B side

it's big volumes

kind of big characters

and I think a lot of great people to meet

so it's good fun

and you've got a massive range of products now

I mean you've been down

and helped out at Clever Car Collection a few times

and whenever you do

there's always one of your franchisees

turning up in one of their vans

and I'm just amazed at like

the range of products you do

I mean how many products do you offer

because I think there's probably some people listening to that

who just think of it as polish and some car shampoo

but it's a bit bigger than that isn't it

yeah do you know what

I need to learn that number to hand

but it's probably between kind of two and three hundred

if not overlap

yeah especially across all the different ranges

I mean if you look at

just pure chemistry like in the bottle

yeah it's like definitely over a hundred

so

it does surprise me as well

like where the need comes from

and it's kind of I say to people

that any part of the vehicle you want to clean

protect or improve

we will have a product or a process to do that

so yeah

there's pretty much anything you want to do

we can help you do it

there'll be a lot of people listening to this

who sort of think of the validating part of their businesses

the sort of forgotten part of the business

you know I mean it's a

you know for us it's really really important

I mean we prepare cars to a very high standard

we hand polish all of them with your products

and we want them looking good

even though they're you know

four thousand pound Kia Picanto

as John likes to point out

we still want them looking really nice

but for slightly larger businesses

it does get forgotten doesn't it

but it is really important isn't it

yeah no a hundred percent

and I think

I think it is one of those roles you can see

that's kind of maybe at the bottom of the ladder

if you like and it's out the back

you know it's not the glitzy front showroom

with the lights and you know everything's clean

and beautiful looking

you know a lot of customers won't see

where their cars are prepped

and just they can you know sometimes

the tough conditions people got to do

and imagine February 6 a.m. washing a car

wet hands cold out the back

everyone expects that car to look amazing

when the customer gets the car it looks amazing

so there's some real kind of heroes out there

that are working in tough conditions

getting things done

so yeah

it's a really vital part

and I'm sure every valetor will have had the

frantic wild-eyed

salesman come in saying

this car is being collected in 40 minutes

can you validate and put life shine on it

you know

and drop everything you're doing

so I think it is one of those roles

it's the kind of unsung heroes in dealerships

where as you said

when everything's working right

you kind of don't realise that they're there

because the stock looks great

and it's so vital as you say

when a photo

probably sells the car

when people turn up to your dealership

I imagine a lot of them have kind of already bought it in their head

they've committed to it

they're just making sure that you're ok

and the side of the car they can't see in the photo

isn't on fire

so it's so important

that those first impressions count

and I think that's where we add so much value

and we talk about

polishing in the pounds as well

so you can take a part X

that looks terrible

or you can pick up a car

that someone's offered to sell you James

and you go and see it and you're like

well I know I can fix that easily

that's going to cost me that

and then the rest of it

just give it a damn good valet

and the thing will look a million times better

so yeah

he's had a few of those turn up this week

that MX-5 with the horrendous roof

and the B-Max that's covered in moss

so I mean it's going to give

certainly give him a challenge

great content for the channel

and yeah we're always at the end of the phone

if he's got anything he can't tackle

we can always offer advice remotely

that is appreciated

I know that you also give

a lot of advice

for dealers to come up and get some training

I actually I came up and had that training

myself in the early days

and people were probably thinking

well what do you need to know about washing the car

and I've certainly learnt a lot

tell us a little bit about that part of the business

and how that works

yeah so that's the Autoglim Academy

and the timing just didn't work

James I think you were about to have

a child

you had to come to our old academy

just before it had loads of investment

it's been all refreshed so it looks much much nicer

you have to come back again

but yeah that was something we identified quite early on

and Autoglim kind of led

you know for a number of years

in the UK was

it's all very well selling people

products but knowing how to use them

and quickly and get good

repeatable results is really the key

to people buying into your

brand and sticking with you

and finding a system that works them

and like you say you know washing a car

you give anyone the tools

they can wash a car and they'll do an AK job of it

but in the trade

you're doing it 8 hours a day

360 days a year

you've got to do it quickly

efficiently and you don't want to be splashing chemical

around you don't need to

you've got to control those costs

and as you've found out

Martin's a good trainer

but he will call you out when you're doing things that aren't quite right

like dropping the wash mitt

or going from the bottom of the car to the top

it's all out working smartly

but that's something we love doing

we love welcoming people into AutoGlim

as well as learning something

they kind of find out a bit about who we are

so we're not some

I think people think AutoGlim is a lot bigger than we are

we have a massive footprint

a massive presence internationally as well

but it's still about 140 people

in North Hartfordshire

manufacturing everything on site

developing everything on site

filling it on site and it all leaves there

and goes around the world

we're very proud that we have

we still manufacture

where we are and we have that control

on everything from start to finish

so it's a big part of people understanding

that when they come in just to kind of learn

how to use the products as well

it did surprise me that when I came up

to do that course

the fact that it is all produced there

just behind this is

it's like an iceberg isn't it

there's a huge amount going on behind the scenes

that you see at the front

give people an idea listening to this

of the work

that goes into developing these products

because it's not just a case of producing it

and letting it fly

they're often constantly updated

yeah so we've got a really

great innovation team at AutoGlim

a really great

research and development team and that's

often where things will start

so sometimes it will start from

anyone in the business can submit an idea

and we're always welcoming ideas in

and looking to pull those threads

so

you get an idea for a product

or we'll discover an unmet need

with a customer and that could be a dealer

like a train company

or anyone a haulier

anyone we deal with

and then we just start to really get down

to what does that product need to do

fundamentally what does it need to achieve

and then in every single product we make

we always make sure that we've got

the three pillars

of ease of use, they have to be easy to use

to be an AutoGlim product

they have to deliver exceptional results

and they have to offer really good value for money

so there might not always be the cheapest products

on the market and I think we unashamedly

position ourselves in a premium space

certainly in the consumer market

in professional

there's that really high concentration

so it's kind of like

it's terrible analogy but like fairy liquid a bit

it costs you a bit more to buy

but it will last you so much longer

and that's where you unlock all that value from

so we make sure we build everything

like that into a product then it will go down into the

academy for testing it gets given to people

like me to test at home and so on

then we get it out to customers

depending on the complexity of the product

if we've really got to get our move on

we can turn things out in months

provided that the chemistry

isn't too complex and we know it well

if we're doing something new for the first time

or it's something a bit more challenging

it can run into years

but it all depends what you're trying to do

I think the worst thing you can do

is rush a product out and then disappoint people

and we'd rather we ask people to wait

for something that's going to not let them down

when they need it rather than

have to go through that

damage of reputation and rush a product

out to market and I think

certainly in automotive we can probably think

of examples of that where

it feels like a product's been rushed out

and consumers are testing it while they're driving

around and it's being fixed on the fly

that's not something that we want

to do so we'll always do

stability with products we keep things for

a year to make sure they're not going to

separate and all these kind of things

so it's really really important

I had a boss who once said to me

quality's never having to say you're sorry

and that's always kind of stuck

with me that if it's got

the auto-glimmer square on it it has to live up

to a certain set of values that we insist on

Yeah good words to live by

we're also in pretty good company aren't we

using these products in a clever car

collection because auto-glimmer's got

a royal warrant isn't it and it's had

that for quite some time

tell us a little bit about that

Does that mean the king uses it to clean his pecansos?

Of course he does John

A whole fleet

Yeah so

since 1991

I think we got Prince Charles

Prince of Wales as he was then

he was the first one so to get

anyone who doesn't know

you can't buy these, you can't bribe your way into it

a royal household has to use your product

for five years of their own choice

and they have to pay for it and then

they can choose to appoint you

if they want to so that's kind of how it works

you can't cheat your way into these

so Prince of Wales came on

and then the Queen Mother she had her own warrant

for a while so

when she was kind of still the Queen Mother

so she came on I think

the following year then the Queen

was 2004 so that was the one

that really carried a terrific amount of weight

internationally for us

places like Canada, Japan

where they absolutely loved the royal family

if they got a link through the Commonwealth

or just their kind of anglophiles

it really works hard for us

and certainly in the UK as well

the people that understand that

it really carries some weight

and then with

the King coming to the throne

a few years ago

everything was up for

discussion again so

his Prince warrant was removed

and then it was awaiting

to see if you were going to be appointed

with the King so we were delighted

that we were and very honoured so

we now carry the King's royal warrant

on all of our products and it's something

we're terrifically proud of

being a British manufacturer

with the endorsement of

the head of state and the King so it's wonderful

yeah it's amazing isn't it

I just wonder how it sort of comes about

in the first place

was Prince Charles as he was at the time

out there

polishing his jag

and going actually this bottle of polish

is really good

I must thank these people

in some formal way

so we work with their

show for teams so you can imagine

there's fleaks of drivers

who maintain the vehicles

so our guys

people like Martin, our technical services team

you met and Ryan and Carl

and the other guys

they'll go in

work with the chauffeurs to train them up

exactly like you had but instead of working on

a Kia Picanto or a car

you brought on the day John

they'll work on a kind of state limousine

or some priceless car that they have

so they actually get to learn

on the vehicles they'll be working on

for such a highly photographed

highly filmed any royal wedding

obviously the cars are followed

literally from the palace to the church

these things have to look immaculate all the time

so we work with their teams

to make sure that they're in the condition

that's befitting of literally royalty

so we work hand in hand with them

yeah I mean somebody to be

incredibly proud of and talking of which

we obviously wanted to get you on

because you were one of the companies

we put through our rigorous testing

the car dealer recommends

program now this is

this is for companies like yours

where products that we use

it's our royal seal of approval

but it's slightly less

important but yes

we obviously

tested your products over the last couple of years

and we're incredibly pleased with them

any company that scores over 90

out of 100 in this testing program

gets the car dealer recommends

you scored 96 out of 100

which is an incredible score and that's

testament to the fact that everybody in the dealership

loves using the products

and there's

a few that I just

couldn't live without

I find it quite funny

that I'm saying it but stuff like window cleaner

and the wheel cleaner

they're absolutely vital

when you get the sort of cars that we get in

we're dealing with old

10 year old cars that probably

never seen wheel cleaner

or probably never had their rear interior windows clean

so the reason

we gave you such a great score is because

the products work

has it helped

when you're out there talking to other dealers

saying clever car collection uses this

no

I mean you'll forgive us

I don't know if we're going to have room to put

the car dealer recommends logo next to the royal warrant

on every product that goes out

I think you should

we'll look at it next time we artwork everything

we'll see if we can find the space but

no it's really great

for us as I said at the beginning

that's kind of our heritage

that's exactly where we started

it's turning pre-owned cars back into

cars that look as new as possible again

and I think the older the car

the bigger the challenge so it was really great

for us to hear that

that was working so well

and yeah delighted to win the award

so I'm glad we're adding value to your business

no well congratulations

congratulations on that front

John we probably though

should move on to some stories it's been a busy week

and we've got lots to cover

but Mark thank you very much for joining us

lovely to see you thanks for talking about all things auto-glimp

and hanging around for our stories

but let's give them a go John

we'll be right back

running a dealership means

making hundreds of decisions every day

but James when do you get the time

to step back and think

well John I don't

but this is exactly what

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maybe you'll actually learn something James

bit rude John but you're probably right

Cardiola Live is sponsored

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now a quick word

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now back to the podcast

James and I are going to run through our favourite stories of the week

and at the end Mark gets to decide

which one of us chose the best ones

and who is the winner I won last week

which means I need to start

to find a story

you tune it up John

tune it up for fans of scores

excellent news

don't care James

so I'm going to start with the news of BCA

and Aston Barkley

the competition and markets authority

has greenlit

provisionally

BCA's owners takeover

of Aston Barkley

so this has been rumbling around the background for a while

they've obviously been investigating

they've been CMA

they've been asking lots of people for submissions

many companies and individuals

have submitted things to the CMA

to say whether it is

or it isn't a good idea

for the enormous constellation automotive group

to take over

the relatively small Aston Barkley

name

and sites and technology and all that stuff

in the meantime Aston Barkley

has been

operating as it has been

because legally that's what they have to do

while all this is going on

but this is the first

kind of

bit of news we've had from the investigation

and it looks

like it is likely to go ahead

I mean I should say there's still

the deadline for submitting responses to CMA

is still open it's 12th of February

so

people have got two weeks to get in any more

grievances they might have with this deal

but

the CMA have laid out their position

in an interim report

and they've said that they've

provisionally found the takeover

has created a relevant merger situation

but has not resulted

and may not be expected to result

in a substantial listening competition

in the supply of business to business

use vehicle auction services across the UK

very wordy

the main part of this

is they actually think that

Aston Barkley where it not

to have been taken over by BCA

would have sort of disappeared

it would have been split up

they say

their assessment is

it wasn't going to sustain itself on its own

it would have had to have been sold or broken up

or whatever

as a result this is not really a conflict

of interest

I mean what do you make of this James?

Well yeah

I mean you've rightly pointed out

their assessment was

they actually pinned it on Aston Barkley's financial position

I'm just looking at the notes that I've made

I've wrote about this in my

substack today and yeah

I picked up on those points

because they think that

should BCA not have taken them over

Aston Barkley would have disappeared anyway

they were in a precarious position apparently

financially

and their words were that they would have

exited the market

on its own accord such were those

difficulties and access to capital

needed to help keep it afloat

so I mean I'm

I've chatted to quite a few people about this this week

because

I mean I think it's fair to say BCA

isn't the most loved car auction house out there

I mean if you look in any of the online

Facebook groups

any of the WhatsApp groups I'm in

pretty much every week there is a complaint

of some form about BCA

so I think this is why

it was such

high interest in the motor trade because

Aston Barkley was actually

they had a good reputation

I mean they had

we went to one didn't we John when we went

and filmed with Jamie Caple

and it was a really nice sight

had good investment they were nice people

and I just felt that they had

that kind of the atmosphere

that people liked

and the attitude that people liked

so I think this is why that so many people

were disappointed to see them

taken over

and there will be a lot of people and the people have said to me on the phone this week

that they'll be really disappointed

to see them gone

and swallowed up by BCA

what's going to happen to those sites

well obviously there's going to be no more physical

auctions there is there I mean you would think

I mean BCA's model is all online

so

what's the point in having more sites that

operate physically if you just

operate online so I don't

it feels to me like it was a case of purchase

to kill it

in some way

I can't see all those sites continuing

do they really need any more space

to store cars probably not

maybe there's some contracts that Aston

Barkley had that BCA didn't

and they can snap up as part of the deal

and that's where the value is

it's hard to know why they wanted them

isn't it

the other thing is is it technology based

you know

didn't they have a really good app

I think Aston Barkley had a good app

yeah exactly it's very hard to say

yeah

you'd like to think it would be lovely

if they just carried on as Aston Barkley

within the Constellation banner but of course that's not

going to happen is it BCA will take over

it I'm sure

there is another place where we're going to miss though

there's going to be a decline in physical auctions

and I think there will be a lot of people in the most trade

that will just miss that

Mark you're down the road from a very small

auction house don't you of course

there's a lecture with motor auctions around the corner from

that's closed

sadly no more

as reported on

Cardiola magazine

exactly John come on pay attention

when was that six months ago I'm not really paying attention am I

no but do you know

I do I have fond memories of

stopping home with my dad

we'd go to Sainsbury's and then we'd call

in where lecture with auctions used to be

another site

and we'd just kind of stand at the back and watch it go past

such a buzz it was such good fun

I was always terrified

I'd move and buy something which was hilarious

it's kind of like a 12 year old boy

like you know putting a bid in that was taken

by the auctioneer but yeah no

it's a shame

I mean it's just everything's moving to consolidation

and bigger and bigger brands are hoovering

everything up so I guess

once the dealerships are all consolidated

they'll consolidate everything around it as well

so it's a shame

yeah it's a shame I think part of the complaints

as well just

when it comes to BCA is the fact that it is all online

and people

people can't check these cars over

like they can when they're running through a

physical lane I mean

when we went to G3 and when we went to Aston Barker

you can look over the cars a little bit more

you can sniff inside them

you can watch it start up you can listen to them

it's very difficult when

you're doing that with a picture on a web page

and I think this is part of the reason

people are so upset

I think they want to see those physical auctions

and it was a massive part of the trade

it has been for years

it was a place where people got together

and asked them how is he January

rather than you just sat at home

thinking is it just me

so yeah I think that's

it's disappointing to see it gone

yes it is

and I should say Mark as well

your 12 year old experience they're very similar to James's

45 year old experience going to an auction

we left with nothing

because he was too scared to put his hand up

James over to you

thanks story please

funny because it's true

let us move on

to a topic that has dominated

my week

and actually the last few months

and even maybe the last year

I want to talk about Chinese cars

or China as

President Trump would say

so this week we have released a video

all about Chinese cars

and the way that they're rapidly changing the face

of the UK car market

I've chatted to people

like Peter Smive

the Swansway Group Director

I've chatted to Mark Palmer

the Auto Trader Insights Director

and their quotes are

including that video and the things that they

talk about are

incredibly interesting

I wanted to know when I started investigating this

how have these Chinese

manufacturers grown so quickly

John we've been talking about it a lot this week

it's just like what is it

what was the thing

that has made these Japanese

sorry these Chinese manufacturers

so successful

compared to the Japanese or the Korean

and I think it's the speed

at which they've done it

has been amazing really

I mean from what I'm going to ask your opinion

in a moment John but from my point of view

I mean it's just

it's the price of the cars

that they've come in with

have just

really cornered an area of the market

at a time

when other manufacturers have pushed

the prices up you know take some

some of those traditional heritage

manufacturers but these

consumers were going back in there

and being asked for £200 a month

more for

the equivalent Tiguan they were

they'd been driving around in when their

PCPD came up

and then they started to look around

they were big increases

in prices of finance packages

and

the Chinese came along

exactly the right time

with cars that look pretty similar

that had great technology

and had brands on them

that people didn't really recognise

I think that what surprised the industry is

that people really don't actually care

or a lot of people don't really actually care

what badges on the front of their car

especially when it's one that nobody's heard of

you know take J.Coo as an example

huge acceleration in the last year

28,000 cars they sold

last year

and people are like proud to call it

the Timu Range Rover

you know there's features in the

national newspapers on TikTok

and just about how people are proud

that they're driving this around

and the sort of analogy I use is a bit like

the rise of Audi and Lidl

you know supermarkets you know

the people who sort of shop in them

you know are often the kind of

Marks and Spencer's buyers

you know the people who just like

to get a bit of a bargain

and they're actually proud of

the fact that they're getting a bit of a bargain

and I think these Chinese cars

that have come along with their sort of

mid-lile prices have really

cornered a market

they took 10% of the market last year

I mean that figure alone

was quite staggering 111,000 cars

they sold

and they think

the experts I spoke to

that by 2030

it will be 20% of the market

that's a fifth of the car market

it is huge

you know we're seeing structural change

like we've never seen it before

and I just can't remember

in the 20 years or so I've been writing about

the automotive industry ever a time like it

you know this is

we are absolutely at the forefront

of these Chinese cars taking over

of changing the face of the market

and I think we're going to this year

is going to be the year where it all really kicks off

we're going to lose some manufacturers

I think some traditional manufacturers

people who are just going to finally think

it's not worth fighting them

because we can't

and these Chinese manufacturers

are just going to grow and grow

I'd urge people listening to this

or watching this on our second YouTube channel

to go and have a look at that video

that we put out on Cardina Magazine

YouTube channel and there's a big feature

on the website all about it because

I was fascinated

it really opened my eyes John

a little bit more to the change that's happening

I know we've talked about it a lot on this podcast

but when you look at the numbers

and you look at what's coming

the brands that are here and the brands that are coming

it's just you realise how much

the industry is going to change this year

so what do you think?

I'm glad you brought this up because

I think we've never actually discussed this before

last week and the week before that

then the one before that and then

the Christmas Roundup podcast I think we might have discussed it

and then probably the few podcasts

before that and then podcast live I think

we might have mentioned it but apart from that

we've never mentioned it

yeah I mean

why do I think they're successful

lots of people come up with lots of different theories

I think there's never

like a one black and white thing as to

why something has been successful

I think it's a multitude of stuff

I would

I agree with everything you said basically

let's move on

no I was just going to say I think it's not even

the Audi and Lidl comparison

what I think of

particularly with the JQ stuff

is I don't know about you James

it's probably not your area but I get proliferated

with adverts for like

dupe is the word

it's not a word it's in a

shortened version of a word

like copycat versions of let's say

expensive

colognes and perfumes

and whatever there's a lot of that

it's like don't buy

don't buy Miss Dior don't buy Creed

go and buy this one

I've made in my garage for

15.99 there's so much of that

all over Instagram and YouTube adverts

at the moment and people really buy

into it and really love them all because of course

it's like one tenth of the price of what

they'd have to pay for this posh brand

so I just think we're in a time

where yeah as you say

cost of living it's a big squeeze

and people have

it's suddenly become far more acceptable

to have this kind of brand

than it would have been 10 years ago

so I sort of think

had JQ in a motor

and BYD and so on

appeared even 10 years ago

I don't think they would have been

as successful as they have been at the moment

I think it just happens to have coincided

with a shifting of attitudes

and also a lot more

Chinese products in general

that are proudly Chinese

should I say

because I'm sitting in a room with a laptop

made in China and a phone made in China

and a screen made in China

and everything else in here is made in China

we're just not aware of it

but now you walk into a shopping centre

and there's let's say

I think Sheen for example

is an enormous thing obviously

it's actually moving into

physical retail space in some cities

particularly Paris

I think which is upset the Paris fashion

magnates

and then you've got these other ones like Mini So

you know you've walked past these

funny little shops with kind of

giant bears and all sorts of stuff here

it's becoming quite cool

for the generation

below us James

to kind of own something Chinese

whether it's a Xiaomi phone or

whatever so I can see it

from that point of view

and yeah I think price is so important as well

what I disagree with

is a lot of people will say

the tech is so good on them

and having driven a few of them the tech is appalling

the tech is rubbish

it's just so

it's a product that has been made for China

that has had some very mild tweaks

to it that hasn't really been

set up for the UK so many of these I've driven

if I talk about driver aids first of all

they don't understand what UK road looks like

so

the margin of error you get

on lane keep assist for example

it's so slim that

wherever you go on a British road

that is as wide as a British road is

they're constantly trying to send you left and right

you have to turn off immediately

whereas it doesn't in some cars

things like stupid things like

voice activation obviously works different

in China because we're used to

asking

I'm just going to mute my Amazon device here

we're used to asking Alexa something

Alexa then does it and then shuts up

every Chinese car I've been in

you ask it for something it may or may not

do it and then it keeps listening

as though you're going to ask it more stuff

and then doesn't go away and it just drives me insane

this is turning into a slight rant on

who wants to say secrets John

that's why

and just

everything is I've never sat in a Chinese car

where the home screen for the

the big screen

is a map I want to map

that's what I want I don't want a picture of some penguins

that's what they all are and it drives me mad

but that stuff

is really frustrating to use so I just

don't buy that the technology is brilliant

I think it's for the price

you get a big shiny screen and maybe a massage seat

but

maybe in the future you can tell us what you really

think about these Chinese cars

but other than that great

why do you think

they have been accepted so quickly

because I mean this is the bit that I just find

amazing

the Korean cars it took

I think it took something like 27 years

to get 2% market share

Kia 18 years, MG 12 years

it took BYD

2 years and a Moda Jku

just 9 months I mean it is rapid

I suppose you have to look back don't you

like a Moda or a Jku

does look like a European car

and looks sort of

passably premium whereas

I'm thinking back to

I live in a town as you do James

where a Kia garage

was the only car dealer

little seaside town

and you just see Kia's everywhere usually as taxis

but like

why would you go buy a Kia mentor

that was the sort of one we used to see here in the 90s

that little kind of that was the Ford Escort rival

wasn't it? No I went and bought one of those

and I think it was just

I don't know if they didn't have the capital

to push the marketing

in quite the same way

or they didn't

recruit as many dealers

or it was just to be honest

all the other cars were

perfectly fine in price at that point

and now they're not you know this is the thing

you get people coming off the end of their PCPs

discovering that actually the price of a

whatever Ford Cougar

whatever has gone up to grand for no

apparent reason so that's

I think it's price really I think people

and all the things I've just said I think people are more open to

weird brands

yeah

Mark what do you think you know

what's your take on this

because I find it absolutely fascinating

as you've probably guessed

well thank god you're finally talking about it

on the podcast

it's about well overdue

I think the value proposition

is just so strong to people

as you say

things might not be quite perfect

and I don't have first-hand experience

so I'm just going off what you guys say

and why read and consume in the motor press

and you know not motor press

and I think you've talked about that before

things that annoy motor journalists don't normally

annoy normal people

and I think it's meeting

maybe not the minimum viable product

but it's good enough

and the price is so tempting

that

it's almost like why wouldn't you

once you put them side by side on the page

you know

if one's looking at the money at the moment

you know we're not awash with cash

you know things are getting hard

so I think when you look at it

it's like yeah it might not be a brand

that I know or maybe the aspirational

brand I've always promised myself

but actually it's doing everything

I want it to do

it's got carplay, it's got a reversing camera

you know these are my must-haves and it moves

you know that's kind of what everything else

is a bonus for a lot of people

I think with regards to the brands

it is interesting though because

as you say

I don't think people have formed in their mind

an opinion of what those brands are

if I purchase an Audi or a Rolls-Royce

or when I was growing up

a Skoda you know that would have meant

something very different to like buying a Skoda now

you know people kind of are like

oh you're a certain type of person because you do this

or your social standing

is pinned to this

by these purchases you make

I just don't think these brands have

established where they are

on that

graph if you like

of what it means to have that

they're all just being bundled together as a Chinese car

I mean even for yourselves

it must be difficult because what's a budget

Chinese car and what's a super premium Chinese car

what's an Audi

equivalent Chinese car or VW

equivalent Chinese car and I say that

within like the VW group

what's that within the Chinese version of VW

and I think people don't know this yet

so they're probably more willing

to take a punt on a complete unknown

because nobody

you're not signifying anything

in the same way that you might be with a heritage brand

so I think maybe as time goes on

and hopefully these brands

start to differentiate themselves in some way

and have

you know a kind of DNA

that people would understand that means

because it's kind of unfair at the moment

we're just lumping it together as a Chinese car

but we don't have the

vocabulary to or the understanding

of these brands yet to kind of

differentiate them out you know what's the off-road

one what's the gym girl

one what's the sporty outdoors family one

you know it's so I think as time goes

on those things have become a bit

more clear and then maybe

we'll start to kind of

see where they fit in and

and that will become a purchasing decision for people

so it won't just be oh it's really cheap

I'm gonna go that it's really cheap

but I'm not that type of person

you know it's like it's really cheap

I want this really cheap one that's more with my lifestyle

so you know I think we'll see as the

market matures how things turn out

I will say my part of that is

the brands themselves don't know

and don't actually care this is the really weird

thing so you're so used to

having all this bump thrown at you about

yeah the buyer of the Audi Q3

is they like to go surfing

at the weekend and whatever you don't get any out with the Chinese

ones they're just like oh well that one's

25 grand that was 26 grand we're selling in the

showroom next to each other

don't really matter you know buy whatever you like

and maybe you know I've been marketing

so I'm susceptible to marketing

once you're working marketing become even worse

you kind of appreciate

all this stuff the subtle nuances

maybe it's that maybe it's just

that is what it is it's this price and we sell

a lot of them and you know the people

that buy it like it and that's all we

need to do what I found

quite interesting since publishing that video

and it was a topic that batch brought up

and we were talking about this in the office earlier this week

it's just how these

customers who actually who have bought them

that are so passionate about them

it's like they jump on

these sorts of videos and jump on these

owners groups that have sprung up because

they want validation of their purchase

and want to prove that they've made

the right choice but

the people out there if you have a look at like

the JQ owners club for example on

Facebook a batch showed me some of the comments

they absolutely love them

so you know

that's got to help these brands some way isn't it

100%

community driven stuff like definitely once you

get those advocates and then

they're going to recommend it they're going to recommend it

and those first person recommendations are so so valuable

I mean

I got out of a very expensive to run

Saab which I absolutely loved

but it was crippling me every time

something broke or every time I went to the petrol pump

and I switched to a dacha duster

and I felt like I'd hacked life

somehow because all paying

under 200 pounds a month for a brand

new car that needed filling up hardly ever

compared to my 3 liter

you know Saab that I had

and I became that person

you know once you find something you're like oh my

god I've like I've got so much more money

I've hacked you know I've hacked real

life somehow I've found a loophole

you become super passionate about it and I

dare say people that are driving around in what they

believe is a team new Range Rover that does

nearly everything they want it to do

looks great in their eyes

you know they're going to get super passionate about it

so you know the brands must be

absolutely loving it normal

people are doing their job for them and reducing

the need for their marketing spend so

you know more power to them I suppose

yeah I will say one final thing

which I suspect also helps is I think when

your Toyota's and your Kia's and so on came along

most people bought cars

with retail

cash they didn't go and finance it

and I think when you're spending your

car whatever it would have been for a Kia

mental versus a Ford

Escort like 13 grand or 11

grand when you're spending that

there's a sort of awareness of

oh you know this is actually a lot of

capital I'm putting into this whereas

now that everything's financed you've got

a start and an end time haven't you you know it goes

back on your PCP at the end of this

guaranteed future value what's the worst

that's going to happen I'm going to pay

300 pounds a month for the next three years for

a car that I find I don't like very much and

then it'll be the end of it you know you're much

better protected in a way

for your investment aren't you so I

think that probably that's changed

the way that people select their car as well

shall I move us on

yes because I could talk about Chinese cars

all day John as you well know

so I'm going to

touch briefly well I'm going to hand this largely

to you James because I can't go through

the information and you know it all

but group one

I'm going to talk about and their news that

they are to act more

UK jobs and dealerships

despite clocking up record revenues

in 2025

so they've confirmed that they will make

further workforce realignment

and strategic closings

of certain facilities very strange way of

writing that but that's how they've written it in I assume

some sort of investor report has this come from

James and your results

John there you go

and they've made quite

we've talked before about group one's

site closures haven't we I think

JLR enormous

numbers they're getting rid of comparatively

the site near to

our office relatively speaking

very nice brand new

BMW and Mini site

on the side of the A3 which gets

a lot of traffic going past it

has just been completely mothballed

signs removed lights still on

seems like a strange choice to me

but there we are must have been too expensive to operate

and it sounds like there's more to come which is

a shame

to put it lightly what did you make of this James

well I mean Jeff

I was very surprised

to read this story when the headlines came out

I think it was yesterday actually

that they're looking to axe more jobs

and sites I mean this is

you got to remember how group one grew

they were already a pretty successful

group in the UK

and then in 2024 they snapped up

those Inchcape dealerships

the entire

portfolio of Inchcape for 346

million pounds

that's a massive purchase of their time

at that time all these American

companies were snapping up stuff off the

stock market over here and

buying up these bigger groups

and making themselves even bigger

and it's just been interesting to see how that has

kind of

settled really the dust has settled

of those deals because they're clearly finding

it tough and

they're looking at these

these portfolios that they've got of dealerships

they're selling lots of them

on, they're shedding

sites, they're closing these

poorly performing ones

and they're losing jobs as a result

and I just find it really quite sad

you know surely you'd think

when they put these two

businesses together

the plan was to make it even bigger

not a little bit smaller

and I just wonder what's gone wrong

and I think

you don't really get a clue

of that in their results and they're still

bringing in huge amounts of money

I mean Group One is a massive, massive

business and they're making

huge amounts of money, yes John?

Can I have a guess?

Is it that they bought these dealerships

at a time when the market

was very strong and Covid was in full

flow or

Well 2024 I mean you'd like to think

it'd settle down a little bit

after those highs of the used car prices

and the new car production

problems I mean it was starting

to get a bit more normal in 24 wasn't it

and actually at the time if you look back at some

of the reports that dealers had

2024 wasn't the easiest of years

so I just

I think

I just find it a real shame

we keep on getting told about

Group One dealership being closed

unfortunately stuff gets leaked

out to us of how things happen

and you've got a feel for

the people in these businesses who probably

were thinking at the time they're working

a UK listed business

saw this big American company come along

snap them up think

here we go we're hitting the big time now

and then as a result of that

they're losing their jobs there must be

some very very shocked people out there

and I can see why

Well this is the frustrating thing you sort of think

if that acquisition hadn't happened would those dealers still be there

probably

but there we are

Yes

I mean Mark have you got anything on that one

Just

very sad

it was kind of a bit of a gloomy week

on a few of the news stories and this was just one

it's never nice to hear about job losses

and just thoughts of people going through that

because it's a scary thing to land on your desk

that you're not going to be working anymore

Yeah

Shall I show on which one last one in John?

Wedge away

Wedge away, I'm wedging it in

I'd just like to follow up on our

story about Targa Florio Cars

which we investigated last week

was some Cook Report

style reporting outside

That's a topical reference

You won't remember that John will you

No I won't

I'd love to do that

but what was the other one where the guys were riding

around on the back of a motorbike

I was born in 1991 I don't know these things

Got my name, whatever his name is

I didn't know that one

It was

I'd love to do that

jump off and ask people local questions

but anyway this is news

Targa Florio Cars is going to enter liquidation

so the BBC followed up our story

John

and reported

Okay

not quite James but yeah alright

do you mean they were there alongside us

asking the same questions

Yeah but they just published four days later

Right okay

Unlucky for them

Yeah but the BBC published

a report they'd spoken to quite

a few of the owners

who'd had cars on sale of return with that business

A few of those have had

their cases settled

William Kirkham the director was speaking

through a lawyer to

the BBC and told them

the decision to close that business

had been taken following very difficult

trading conditions

He blamed Black Book Realignment

the increase in business rates

national insurers and other business

expenses and he told the BBC

that it'd be placing the business

into insolvent liquidation

and that him himself

intends to apply for

bankruptcy so

there's clearly a few

customers out there of this dealer that are

still waiting for their money

and as it stands

today I checked this morning

no official notice on companies house

about liquidation or administrators being

appointed

but sad to see

that story still rumbling on

but at least he's actually come out and said something

and paid some of those

customers back I think the three people

in the BBC

report got their money back

from the sale of return so they will

certainly be very happy to see that but

you know very difficult

story again John but

interesting to see it rumble on

yes absolutely

not much more I can say about that really

legally because you've used the word

lawyers

and you know how much the lawyers love

sending us a letter here at

Oh they do

I haven't had one of those for a while so if you're

listening and you'd like to send us one

please do but make sure it's a nice one

well I'm going to end it swiftly there

because

I still want to have a paycheck at the end of the month

Sue

Mark before

how's your verdict are there any stories

you think we've missed this week

I mean there were quite a few

I did my homework I'll be honest before this one

oh good I'm glad somebody did

I have notes in everything

wow

yeah it was a bit it kind of felt like a week

of like bad not bad

news but there's no kind of standout

super happy news the one I suppose that

did to me was I think there's a man

on from the auto trader talking about

the used car can

you know it's strong at the moment but there's a

bit of a

time bombs the wrong word but they're kind of 5 to 7

year old stocks not going to be in the market

and there's no way to kind of reinvent

that you know that that's happened and that

that spot is moving through

through the trade at the moment

so I think that's going to be

interesting it'll be interesting to see

I'll be listening into future episodes

about how dealers who traditionally

use that kind of that area

to how they're going to evolve and work

through that I think

you know probably it's something

where you can really presentation

would become super important you know

and you if there's

not a lot of

availability you really have to make what's

there work really really hard to rise to the

top and especially if you maybe have to start

selling something a little bit older to your

customers use having a 5 to 7 year old car

and you're trying to get them into an 8 to 10

you got to make sure that car is as good

looking as possible and I think that's where

you know your presentation your

prep and everything really really comes

in and dare I say it you know

if you're going to have to drop your price because the car is a bit older

there's a benefit for your after sales

your life shines of the world and that kind

of thing to get a bit more money run

through your business so I thought that was

really interesting and I'll definitely be listening

in the future to see how dealers are

working through that

and really cool

yeah that was professional

auto glim professional

thank you very much

well I'm

going to have to ask you

who chose the best stories or who's your winner

or what's your favourite story any of the three

above that I just said is fine

yeah it's hard

I think probably

because it's rumbling on it's so current

I think I'm going to have to go with the perennial

Chinese cars

all that hard work

was worth it I'm finally on the scoreboard

last

we were talking about it

yeah I think that's just

so top call at the moment

and yeah be interesting

to watch it develop

well a very well deserved win for James

because he's been toiling away for the last week

manoeuvring jacos

and BYDs into his showroom so he can walk

around them like he's on watchdog

so a lot of effort

went into that video James well done

did yeah thank you John thank you

and thank you Mark I will take the win

and chalk it up

so thank you very much indeed

thank you lovely

well all that's left me to say is thank you

to Mark for joining us today it's been lovely to have

you on chat a bit about you and auto

glim and I do hope

this experience of actually being

in the podcast hasn't ruined listening to the podcast

for you and now you can see how

the sausage is made so to speak

podcast

I'll say that

anyway thank you Mark

do come again

did you know

no I didn't

thank you

thank you Mark

thank you as well to James who now

is going to keep laughing until next week

actually brilliant

and thank you for listening we will be back

next week with another episode to make sure you're subscribed

so you're notified when that goes live

I don't know when that is going live James

because we need to work out our NADA

time zone difference

so we'll be bringing you one from NADA

will we not in some form

we will yeah I mean let's work out our diary

offer and just tell listeners

that there will be one next week sometime

I think it's more fun this way if I open up my account

minus nine hours anyway

yes so we'll be back next week with another episode

make sure to subscribe take a minute if I don't get it live

if you want to check out the stories mentioned today

take a look in the show notes below

or head to cardinmagazine.co.uk

thanks for listening and goodbye

BCA Aston Barclay merger given green light, Group 1 to axe more dealerships, and the 'rampant' rise of Chinese car brands – episode 241, with Mark Docherty

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