Ben Collins (Ex-Stig): Top Gear Secrets, F1's Big Problem & Real Bond Stunts

I should have brought it up for you.

The first check I ever received for payment was addressed to the Stig.

Oh, brilliant.

So I said to my boss, I can't cash this.

What am I supposed to do?

Go into your bank with your white suit on.

But it is pretty cool.

Would you pay someone just a Mickey Mouse?

It's like going to go in with a, yeah, exactly.

Hello and welcome to another episode of Talking Shop.

Today we're joined by none other than the Stig, Ben Collins.

Please make sure to like, comment, subscribe, and let us know who you

want on Talking Shop Next.

I mean, what's it like all these years later, I suppose, having done that job?

Does it do you ever sort of look back and go, wow, that was that was

quite a cool, that was quite a cool moment.

It's hard to believe it's 15 years since I left Top Gear.

Yes.

So it's amazing that anyone's still interested in it, which is lovely that they are.

Yeah.

But I guess the cool thing is Top Gear's got such an afterlife that it and it's

there's, you know, travel around the world, particularly America, where

they're sort of eight years behind.

So for them, the series only just came out.

So it's which is quite cool.

This is quite fun.

And I guess some of these characters from TV, they just they do last a

long time in people's memories.

And the Stig was a really cool part of the show.

So and it's quite timeless.

So obviously human beings age, Stig doesn't.

So the character, if you like, but a real life one.

So it's the difference, I suppose.

I'm just I was so fortunate to get that position.

Yeah.

I mean, I probably would claim it, but I probably was the Top Gear's biggest

fan, because I remember every Sunday night, that's it.

Yeah, I've got lots of competition.

But every Sunday night, I remember just the titles just before Top Gear

started every Sunday night for years and years.

And that was that was that was it.

And it's I think every episode, I've probably watched five, ten times.

So yeah, no, no doubt if you weren't sat down,

watching Top Gear Sunday at eight o'clock at night.

What were you doing?

At least everybody was doing it.

Yeah, it did become a it was quite a phenomenon.

And I can't honestly say I've watched all of them.

So and I used to dip in and out.

I love the early years I was working there.

That was I think when it was at its freest hand.

And it was super creative, because a lot of things hadn't

been done before coming up with stuff for the first time.

Then you know, it's difficult.

I remember my boss, Andy Willman, he said, well,

we should have axed it in 2008 because no show should go on

for too long and that type of thing.

And actually, I think it was kind of peak.

Top Gear was around up to that time.

Caravan Conkers.

Caravan Conkers, all these things.

And then you end up doing more of the saying, oh, that worked well.

So let's try to find another way to do it.

So car football, what next?

So car hockey.

Yeah. And I think after I'd gone, they did car rugby.

Really, car football was car rugby.

Yeah. It was full contact.

Ten of Persia went to like a rocket or something.

Yeah. The rocket car.

Richard and James were in like a bunker.

Like, well, it was when they launched it.

Yeah. So it was the right Robin, I think, that went up.

Oh, was it? Was it? Yeah.

Yeah. I love that.

I think you're thinking of the Winter Olympics one,

where they jumped the mini down the...

Oh, is that what it was? Yeah, that's it.

Well, both involve rockets.

Yes, OK.

And of course, you know when they say that you're not,

he's not a rocket scientist or he's no rocket science.

I mean, the Top Gear definitely didn't have rocket science.

But the one that was went, you know, what the spaceship one.

Was fascinating because I think at the time

it was the most expensive thing they'd ever made, right?

OK. So they're very proud of it.

I say they, you know, the experts made.

And it was the classic of the weakest link in the chain,

brought it down.

So because it went up successfully, which was great.

But it did go, it went straight up and then straight down.

And fortunately, you know, James and Richard were in a bunker

at safe distance, looking through the binos

like the sort of nuclear weapons test.

But it was meant to fly around.

I hadn't realised that.

What? Oh.

Because when you sort of watch, they're funny.

They're making, you know, they're saying quirky stuff.

The viewers kind of just watching this thing go up into,

you know, into orbit and then just crash land.

But if you watch it again, they are explaining

it was meant to circumnavigate the airfield and land.

Oh. I'd never realised.

And it would have been incredible.

Could you imagine it? Yeah.

So it basically went up all the.

So all the rocket tree was correct, but the remote control failed.

So they couldn't fly it around.

I'm not sure which is more frightening, though.

Imagine them flying, actually trying to manoeuvre it.

But it would have been amazing.

I think if there's something that they should recreate,

it would be that one.

So they could land it.

But then the one on the Winter Olympics.

Yeah. So I was there for that.

Actually, at one point, we were going to do a skiing section.

So I was on holiday, basically, going to go skiing.

And I was imagining skiing in a stick suit,

which didn't happen in the end.

But I was looking at the mini.

So they called the super jumps, the big skiing jumps, ski jump.

What do you call it?

I don't know. I don't know.

I know what you're talking about.

When you watch on telly, it looks big.

Yeah.

The head of the eagle stuff. Yeah.

That's who I was thinking.

I was thinking of this name.

Yeah. If it looks big on TV real life, it's colossal.

And then from the bottom, it looks big.

Here to the top, it looks even bigger.

So from the top, looking down,

the funnel, if you like, the jump looks really, looks really tight.

And the space at the bottom, which looks vast when you're standing in it,

looks like a beer mat, looks tiny.

And below the beer mat was a sheer drop.

And then it was just a city.

So I was standing there with the rocket people

who were a little, you know, pretty rough and ready.

They were packing explosives into this mini.

They had all these, all these things coming out.

There's wires everywhere.

It just literally looked like a bomb.

And I just said, how do you know it won't just go

off the end and skip the beer mat and just land in the town

and just bomb a town.

Yeah. Oh, no.

But then we've done the calculations and, you know,

so I was intrigued with all of us there,

all me and the camera team were waiting all the whole day

to watch this thing go.

I think thinking sort of it could go anywhere.

Look at missile.

And it was actually quite perfect.

And it took off and it made this,

it made the sound of the Millenium Falcon as it went through the air.

It's sort of amazing noise.

And it landed on its wheels and went down and then into the into the bales.

But they were, they were not as locally.

So I was talking, we had a stunt coordinator there helping with some of the bits.

People were coming up to him, asking if they could be in Drive the Mini.

They're driving involved.

It was a rocket.

Oh, well, they were that mad.

They'd sit in it.

Yeah.

I wouldn't trust it.

I thought the same.

I was looking at Flint off in that when he did the

what's he called bungee jump in a car.

Ah, yes.

Geez, it's just too brave.

Yes, fair play.

I mean, I know you sort of meant,

talked about this in the past a little bit,

but how on earth for that many years did you not?

Did you hide your identity really from from the stick?

Yeah, initially, it's quite easy.

If you've got a secret, you don't want to know.

You just don't tell people.

Well, sure.

You know, I was highly motivated to keep the job.

I totally got that it was the secrecy was paramount to it

and was to do with the demise of the predecessor.

So the stick in the black suit, you know, he

I think would have gotten out and he found himself

or his character being killed off the end of an aircraft carrier.

So that was that.

Yeah.

And it was only eight months.

So it did seem like a quite a daunting task.

You don't know.

And I can look back now, it lasted eight years,

but the time I didn't know if it would last eight weeks

or eight days or one day.

And I was only hard one day at a time.

So you didn't you lived each day like it was your last

because it could be.

So I had a great time, but there was there was always

I was aware it could end like that.

So yeah, I didn't tell anybody.

My boss knew, obviously, because he'd hired me.

I had an edge.

I got sent eventually got sent some paperwork by someone

at the BBC who had an address.

Can't remember if I have my name on it or not.

And because I think that's right, I've got.

I should put it up for you.

The first check I ever received for payment was addressed to the stick.

So I said to my boss, I can't cash this.

What am I supposed to do?

Go into your bank with your white suit on.

But it's pretty cool.

Would you pay someone just Mickey Mouse?

Going to go in with a yeah, exactly.

So keeping a secret wasn't difficult.

And if you go to extreme measures, which I used to do.

So I would always helmets on all day, but I would arrive as well.

You know, no wallet because he's got your name on the cards.

So anything that had my name on it was left in the car.

Cars to try and be clever where I parked it

so that you couldn't really see.

And I would walk in in civvies, but with a balaclava on.

Which was pretty ominous looking, but effective.

But actually as time went on, I worked out there's other ways to appear

without being seen.

And actually the balaclava drew more attention than it stopped.

But there'd be environments when it was just I would I would know

either be full character or hide and be gone back door.

Or just get them to do a sketch with Michael Schumacher

and pretend it's Michael Schumacher.

Yeah, that was nobody else's questions.

That was the smoke screen, exactly.

So that was basically gotten out into the press.

I think it had been in three of the tabloids

and it looked pretty grim.

This was following BBC, taking the decision to without telling me

reveal my identity in the Radio Times, which they own,

which was a bit of an own goal.

And after that, the tabloids, as well, saw that we'll run the story.

So the Shoei thing was a good smoke screen

and amazing to get to meet him.

I had no idea he was there until about 11 o'clock

and went across to go meet him.

He was eating his corn flakes in his in his motorhome

and then got to show him the lap, which was awesome.

Just got to hang out a bit

and what set that time in his Ferrari, which is epic.

Yeah, I made sure I went out to the fastest corner I could get to

the follow through, which is really interesting.

It's obviously I know the place well.

It's interesting to me. Yeah, it's just a corner.

But I was fascinated how would Schumacher tackle it.

And I was not disappointed.

He just came up with a massive amount of speed

and it cranked the steering.

So the car just rotated at really high speed

into the into the fast right and just had the hammer down so early.

Yeah, it's great to watch.

You still a big F1 F1 fan.

I still love F1.

It's just, you know, the cars are oversized

and just obese, heavy.

Yeah.

And I just think like a lot of the drivers who are in it,

you know, if you ask them, what do you think of the cars?

Black.

We're not getting to see as much of their talent.

We are still getting to see their talent a lot at the time.

But I, you know, I do roll my eyes when you

when you realise that they're driving at 95% or 90%

because the tyre won't last.

Yeah, the tyre won't last because the car's too heavy.

Yeah. Yeah.

So they keep packing them with tech.

I don't know how interested we are in that tech.

I just want to watch the sport.

I hear you.

And the development that's gone into into the combustion side is, you know,

I get the hybrid elements are also interesting,

but they're too heavy for that part of the sport.

And and we're still benefiting from efficiency in the combustion element.

Yeah.

And there's more to run on that.

So anyway, without getting into that.

Grabbing a hole.

I do love it.

Yeah, but the cars are too big, too heavy and too cumbersome.

So there's some of the great tracks.

You know, Monaco is not the best for overtaking,

but I mean, you can forget it in a car that size.

Yeah. And other tracks, too.

So what do we do to grow the tracks?

I mean, what are you supposed to do?

Yeah. Yeah.

They try and restore a bit of that.

There was good.

It was a good impetus previously to make them smaller again,

less aero, bigger, bigger wheels, bigger tires.

Yeah.

And with that, you get dirty air and you could you wouldn't need to push to pass.

You wouldn't have to have all these gizmos to artificially help them overtake.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That's the way it's gone now.

It's like, well, it's always been about engineering

and like the latest technology in the automotive in in racing world,

which obviously then feeds into a lot of cars on the road.

But yeah, it has lost its soul in a way of is it the driver?

Is it the car everyone now knows?

Yeah. If you put Alex Albon in the fastest car,

chances are he'll win the championship.

By the way, Alex Albon is awesome.

I'm just saying any if you gave any one of those incredible 20 drivers

the best car chances are they'd finish at the top,

which is a shame now, but it's always been the case

if you put someone in a better car, they go faster.

Yeah.

Whether they win a championship is a different thing.

Got to be consistent.

Yeah. And if you look at who's been winning the championships,

it's the best people.

So true.

There's, you know, with as a margin, though,

like let's say you take the top five,

obviously, if they're of a similar or equal talent,

then the car will stop some or disable some of them

from actually winning.

But it's been really close.

And some of the years have been extremely close.

I think the one, the controversial year.

21, yeah.

With the Red Bull Mercedes, but it's great to watch.

Yeah. It's as close as you can get.

I've watched it since for as long as I can remember.

And that was my favourite, favourite year for a long time.

It was epic.

It was incredible.

Because there were times, I think, when the performance,

you couldn't really tell which car was quicker,

but there was differences through the season.

I think towards the end, Merck had it, you know,

they seemed to have this pace.

But in the end, it came down to, you know,

a bit of a crapshoot.

And it was really exciting to watch.

Some people are obviously very unhappy with the outcome.

But it made great telly.

It was great to watch.

Yeah. It was good.

Who's your favourite of all, All-Tile?

Who is the, have you got a favourite of All-Tile driver?

An all-timer?

Yeah.

You know, Senna is the one, I think, every racing driver,

including the current crop, would look back to and be,

you know, this was a special moment.

And, you know, there's so many great drivers.

And I've enjoyed reading biographies of loads of them,

as you'll be all know of, Alan Prost, Mansel.

There's so many great personalities, Schumacher.

And I think the one that you can't, it's sort of,

it's just a bit different, is the Senna and his abilities

and what he did.

Just pure bravery, really, at the time.

Just the whole latitude of...

I think they're all brave.

I think it's the way that he mastered so many different elements.

And Gettys Hartberger, I remember him summarising it,

you know, he's just good at everything.

So, you know, he was good at dealing with traffic in the race,

risk management, overtaking when to, when not to,

and how much time you lose when you do it,

you know, and being able to process all the strategy

whilst you're also flat out.

And then the raw pace, the pole positions, the one-lapse,

you know, it's all of that together, I think.

You realise that you're watching something really special.

I remember back in the day when he was on,

I felt compelled, had to watch every lap he was doing,

because they were all special.

You know, what's he doing?

I remember towards the end,

this was one of the last Grand Prix in Brazil.

And it was hammering with rain.

Nobody was going out, so no one out.

And there's young drivers, they were,

well, why has he gone out?

And trying to understand, so he's gone out to just,

he's gone out to see where the grip is,

where's the puddles, where's the this, where's the that.

In case on Sunday it's raining,

he now has knowledge the others didn't do,

because they were all, oh no,

don't take a risk with the car.

But there's always something to be learned.

And I was watching Grand Prix Silverstone

a couple of years ago.

And I was amazed, because they all went out,

and I was watching with a group of people,

maybe didn't know so much about F1,

they're like, well, why is he doing that funny line

around Luffield?

And I said, well, he's the only one checking the wet line.

So I watched this, because he was,

I think he was the sixth or seventh of the grid.

So I bet you he'll be three or four places up

using that line.

He'll gain a load of speed.

He's the only one sort of practicing

to see where the, when it's short enough,

he was, he jumped up through the order.

And I was amazed that in a field of experts,

he was the only one that did it.

Yeah, it's the smallest of margins

or they'll look for any little advantage.

Because yeah, sometimes they go offline,

don't they, to like call the tyres.

So I would have probably just thought,

oh, he's doing that at that,

because that's a good place to call the tyres down

and then going back online.

But yeah, obviously he's looking for any.

It's all the little details that add up.

Amazing.

I think he's the fastest in F1,

he's the most consistent, he's, you know,

going for it on every element of it,

every element of the rules,

what's, you know, they've had to adapt

the driving rules for Max.

Because he's created a new overtaking style

that no one had thought of, including Senna,

which I mean, this is what's amazing.

The whole, the braking distance into the corner,

it was fairly well settled.

There's a, you know, there's a breaking limit

to make the apex.

And that was the conventional thinking.

These cars, it's impossible to overtake in them.

So he's like, how do I get around that?

Well, why not just extend the braking area

to the white line on the edge of the track?

Yeah.

So he's willing to do that.

No one would have thought of it.

No.

And really difficult to defend against

because you never quite know

if he's going to do one of those or what.

Where he's going to go.

Yeah.

So, fascinating to watch.

Wow.

Yeah, absolutely.

Who's been your inspiration?

Was it Senna as a racing driver?

Yeah.

It's such a tough act to follow.

And I didn't, as in, well,

is the best in the world.

Yeah.

I had no racing experience before I started in cars when I was 19.

So in some ways it was an inspiration.

And actually it was a bit of,

maybe should have been a bit more realistic

in where I was starting from.

Yeah.

Because the Senna model was,

get to the front, win every race.

Having raced in go-karts,

he'd been racing for years before he came to the UK

to do Formula Ford, which is kind of where I started.

So that, in my situation,

resulted in a lot of crashes.

Yeah.

It was risk everything to get to be at the front

without having worked out the,

actually, you need to finish first.

You must first finish.

Yeah.

So it did take three written-off cars

to get to that stage before the message finally went home,

a couple of visits to the medical centre.

People saying,

you need to just be a bit more calm.

And I was like, oh, I get it.

Okay.

I think I understand what you're trying to say.

So at that age, this is like zero fear.

And I've always just, you know, with racing,

it's such a passion.

There's no fear anyway.

It's all about the result and trying to shape

how you maximise your performance.

It's such an amazing sport.

Yeah.

What did years before the BBC looked like for you then?

So we professionally raced?

Yes.

I mean, I didn't just get cast as a,

okay, go and wear that suit and have a go.

So by the time I got,

I was 23, 24, is that right?

Yeah.

I got the, no, it was,

sorry, got my calculations out.

I was a bit older about 20, 28.

So I've been racing for nine years by that point.

And so I started in single-seaters.

I wanted to get to Formula One.

And that was the total obsession.

I drove a car, it was my birthday.

My dad gave me a go in a single-seater at Silverstone.

I literally did a lap

and I was totally consumed with it.

I didn't want to think about anything else.

And all I was thinking about as soon as that session finished

was how quickly I would be able to get back in a car

to carry on.

It was just completely addictive and all-consuming.

So I was able to get support from my family,

got started in what was called Formula First,

which is like a Formula Ford series,

like the entry-level series.

So as wheel-to-wheel racing

with some really talented people,

some of them as a world-carting champion,

people who'd raced in that series for a couple of years,

there's lots of seasoned people.

So thrown in at the deep end

and learnt not just how to do a fast lap.

I was fast quite quickly.

So I was at the front of the grid,

but I really had no place being there.

I didn't know how to defend my line.

All that stuff was completely new.

And so all the team managers were having kittens

and like trying to, you should do this,

why do I have to do that?

Why do I need to defend?

What do I have to go offline?

I'll be slower.

You have to defend your spot.

So, and then slip-streaming, all of this stuff.

I mean, the first time you've done it,

when you're so close like that with its nose to tail

and literally people are bumping you

at the back of your car,

it's quite alarming.

You know, if someone does it on the road,

you probably get the road rage or the fear

or pull over and have a break.

And we're all there doing it.

You can't actually see even the corner.

You're so far into someone's gearbox,

you can't see what's ahead.

All the engines start humming in tune.

So you get this weird air pockets.

Your ears start buzzing.

Your heart rate goes mad.

And it's pretty exciting stuff.

So you have to try and calm the excitement.

Try and start to take the amateur out

and get professional.

So anyway, sorry.

And someone can do that at night.

Sorry to do it as well.

Like when it works like normal, it's like,

what, it's crazy how they've closed their following

and it's pitch black.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, yes, vision is underrated.

The fun part was the single seat chase to get to F1.

I've got very close, got to Formula 3

and then effectively like Formula 2,

Formula 3000 in America.

But at the time, there was no avenue to go through.

It was not without sponsorship.

There was a small wind of opportunity with arrows, F1.

So I switched across to doing sports car racing

to do Le Mans, which was epic and it was a series

I didn't really understand

because it's so blinkered for single seats

but jumped into this sports car.

It was a 150 horsepower, Formula 1 engine,

Jard V10 in the back, carbon fiber tub, like F1,

just wider with gigantic slicks,

more downforce than a Formula 1 car at the time.

Wow.

Unbelievably physical and unbelievably fast.

So 220 miles an hour at Le Mans.

Wow.

What was it revving to?

10,000 RPM.

It was bonkers, bonkers first.

Wow.

And so that was what I was doing

right to the point where the program I was in

just stopped and I was,

I couldn't, it's like musical chairs

and it stopped at the last minute,

didn't manage to get a driver of the different team.

So it all seemed to be lost on the racing career

and I was looking for other things to do

and Top Gear was one of the interviews I'd had

which didn't seem to go anywhere.

And by the time they said,

oh, come and start on Tuesday, whenever it was,

I had got another drive and I was racing on ovals.

So I managed to keep racing

whilst I was doing the stick job.

Right.

Who's the fastest driver?

Like who's the person you admire that you raced against?

Oh, loads.

Yeah.

You learn the most of your teammates.

Yeah.

Your best teacher is a teammate.

So you always want to have a fast teammate,

not too fast because you don't look bad.

Yeah.

But yeah, you need to be pushed.

So then you get the data.

So you can literally see exactly what they're doing.

It's always like seeing into their brain.

You can see where they press the brake pedal,

where they put, where they're placing the car,

where they're steering, how much.

So you can see the rate of turn.

So if you understand what to look for,

you can completely use that as a teaching tool.

Yeah.

So say you're faster out of nine corners in 10,

but they're quicker in one.

You still need to learn that information

to try and keep advancing, keep learning.

So the driving styles I've seen over the years

are really fascinating.

And you've got people who, left foot brake,

I don't, I right foot brake,

which in F1 you'd have a choice.

So I do both, but it's interesting

how it affects how you make the car behave

because if you're using the brake as a resistance tool,

so you can affect suspension differently

and then you might need a different setup

and you see lots of different squiggly lines on the data.

The most impressive people I've raced against,

I'm trying to think of a few, but.

So Mark Hines, I think he's still managing

Lewis Hamilton.

He won the Formula Three championship.

I raced with him for a few years from the beginning.

Awesome bloke, super talented,

very prost-like, analytical, very consistent.

Good bloke, you know, but with a,

you know, out of the car in the car

there's always two different people.

Well, it's Justin Wilson who went on to IndyCar

as a fantastic driver, huge natural talent.

A load of the South Americans that went through.

Mark Webber, another great, great one.

So race against him in Formula Three.

There's loads, I mean, there's so many

and you end up looking at the helmets

because you recognise that the behaviour patterns

are also completely different.

What they'll do in different situations,

you kind of get a bit of a,

because you're trying to gauge risk management,

what will someone behave like

and how you can also break them to some extent

with how you're gonna play the high-speed chess

with them.

So yeah, quite a few, lots of good people over the years.

So being in racing for so long

and you said your teammate is like,

you're great as an adversary,

but you're also your greatest ally

because of the data, et cetera,

and they're in the same car.

If you look at it.

Yeah, of course, yeah.

I think I'm told F1, some of them,

once they climb up, that's it.

Even in the same team.

You can't see the setup.

Yeah, they start to do that,

work as two individuals.

Have you, do you have any sort of like,

can you level with how it must feel

for Lando Norris now sort of like

trying to stay close,

trying to get back,

obviously chase those points back against Oscar.

Can you like sort of level with just how much,

what is essentially under pressure-wise

and what it's like knowing Oscars ahead?

Yeah, it's a huge confidence thing.

If you've got, if you're on a roll

and your confidence is working to be beneficial,

of course you don't get cocky either.

That's always ready to bite you.

So it's a really mental game.

So they're both fantastic talents.

At the start of the season,

it looked like Lando had the upper hand.

But really, I had a really good conversation

with Trevor Carlin, who ran both of these guys

in Formula Three, I think it was.

And he said, yeah, don't underestimate Oscar.

He's quietly super competitive.

And I was like, all right.

Because he might look past him,

because he's not as frothy on social media.

He's quietly getting on with it.

So it's a very analytical guy.

But there's always a way to get back at someone

and I'm sure that Lando's working it out.

And I don't get back in a nasty way.

I mean, just like you have to find that way to break it.

So yeah, they're both supreme talents.

It's going to be interesting to see where it pans out.

It's going to be tight.

Yeah.

Oscar reminds me of like a Kimi Raikkonen

just without the outlandish personality every now.

You know, like the outlandish things he used to say.

Like he's just that,

like essentially another ice man just chilled.

Yeah, nothing seems to phase him

at such a young age as well.

He's quite scary how good he is so quickly.

Loads of them are like that.

They're so, like you say, calm.

Because the act of driving the cars at that level

and that pace is...

Yeah.

They're so on the limit mentally

to produce, to get the car to work that way.

There's so much going on.

It's really at the extreme end of what you're capable of doing

and any slight thing that's just any slight distraction

or whatever, you just will lose time.

You just lose a little bit of pace.

It could be nothing.

And you've seen on the grids one-tenth of a second

and you're P2.

Yeah.

There's only a tenth.

And it's like, yeah, but you're still second

to your teammate.

And it makes a difference on the grid.

It just makes a difference to how you...

You walk into the pit lane into your crew.

They're looking at you differently

because you're the faster one.

Yeah.

And the worst case,

you get situations where there's a new bit,

whatever it is, it's a wing-end plate

or a piece of engine piston,

whatever the new bit is.

And they've only made one.

Well, which one are they gonna give it to?

They'll give it to the faster one.

And you know that, even if they don't have the bit

or you know that you know that there could be,

if it comes down to it, push comes to shove,

there could be a radio transmission or something

that tells you, mate, just move over.

Yeah.

So that's hard because you know it's there.

Yeah.

And then that's your confidence just destroyed.

Basically, yeah, the team are basically

favoring the other driver.

Unless you're like these guys, they're ice cold.

Yeah.

And you keep that behind and just like, okay, fine.

You have to be.

It's a fight.

Yeah.

It's amazing that there's only 20 seats as well.

It's just incredible that there's so many categories

out there and they're just going for 20 seats.

You look at any other sport, like football, for example.

You know, they have such a higher chance

or much a higher percentage.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

11 people in a team.

God knows how many when you put all the subs in the reserves,

et cetera.

You don't get that enough.

We need more sticks.

Yeah.

Let's just put them out to the far side.

Yeah.

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Now back to the show.

In the early days of the stick then,

were you still pursuing your racing career for a while

or did that sort of then slow down

whilst you were doing work at the BBC?

Yeah, I was still going through it.

And I had hoped, the dream was,

well would have been if the two had managed to converge.

Right.

So, you know, it would have been,

we got close but no banana.

I mean, then we did the Brick car 24 hours

in a diesel BMW.

Yes, I remember.

It wasn't necessarily what I dreamt of.

It was a really good time.

I remember that.

It was fun.

Actually, I've remembered there was a slower one.

We did the Citroen 2CV 24 hours

where I've never prayed for a car to break down more.

It was a laugh but every corner was flat out.

So it was pretty mind-numbing.

Everyone was like, oh, this is so much fun.

I'm like, I've been racing a 220 mile Le Mans car

and now I'm in this

and now I'm lucky to be here and everything

but still I'm struggling to stay awake.

That's great.

So yeah, it would have been great

if they could have converged

and I was lobbying gently for that to happen.

I was, I remember doing a presentation to Jeremy

about going to do NASCAR

because I thought it would be perfect

because they could come out with some outrageous sponsorship.

There was a brilliant Bert Reynolds movie

where he's a NASCAR driver.

I can't remember what it's called

and the team manager wants to get him fired.

So he humiliates him

by making him wear degrading outfits.

So he wears a chicken,

he gets him wearing a chicken suit

because they've got fried chicken sponsor.

Just to look, do whatever you need to do,

but let's go and get some funding.

Let's do it.

We never did it.

And the closest we got was,

there was a moment when we were gonna do Le Mans

with Aston Martin in a Le Mans prototype

which is what I was racing at the time

and that would have been just incredible

but it kind of fizzled out.

So I suppose as time went on,

I realized the stars wouldn't align in that way

and that was fine.

And I was making the most of it with my own racing, so.

Yeah, that BMW race you were talking about there,

that actually did all right really overall

in terms of the car that didn't use it.

Did it really?

Well, I think, was it the only,

was it the second or the only two diesels in the series?

Was that something like that?

Yeah.

So considering, considering that's very generous of you.

It did have a monumental breakdown.

I mean, it didn't.

We were lucky in that the fog came in.

So I ended up driving most of the race

and I like racing in the rain.

I like challenging conditions.

So the fog helped me gain time.

So I think I unlapped us a few times

and we finished third.

I don't know how many were in our category.

Okay. Possibly four.

Better than last, isn't it?

Yeah, it was a giggle.

It all helps.

I mean, I left in 2010

and actually that year won my first European Le Mans series.

So it was not a bad way to move back into racing

and went back into prototype racing for a few years

and some GT and up until 2015 or 16.

So I'd love to get back into motorsport

but it's going to be a different type of thing now.

Not going to be at this stage.

I'm not going to be expecting to go and I'd still be up for it

but the hypercars,

they're looking for people who've just come out of F1

or you're on a really very competitive manufacturer

sort of level.

You need to be doing that for regularly

and I haven't been too busy doing YouTube

and making movies.

Well, what's that like now?

Obviously coming out from sort of the television era

if you like into YouTube now

is that sort of a big transition?

Yeah, the YouTube, I was amazed by it

and it was a massive breath of fresh air.

So from thinking that TV was a be all end all

then realizing actually there's people watching

there's more views on these YouTube films

than there are on some of the even Top Gear.

So that was quite some surprising huge stars on YouTube

which again, there's generations

not aware of that they exist.

There's another generation that aren't aware

that TV exists.

What is a TV?

And I think it's going fast in that direction.

So the beautiful thing is it's completely up to you

what you go and shoot.

This is quite liberating

also quite terrifying because it's all on you.

You can't afford the same,

you don't have these huge production teams

but you can still invest the same preparation.

And I've learned that actually there's a lot

you can get done now that the camera tech

has changed with drones, with on boards.

Easy in-bore cameras you can do quite a lot.

There was extremely expensive to capture

when we were doing Top Gear.

In-bore cameras and stuff, it was complex.

They had to be focused and all this sort of stuff.

Now you can stick them to the windscreen and off you go.

Yeah, I remember seeing all the old shots

of Top Gear and stuff.

And there was one scene I always remember

which made me realize how big these cameras were

where Hammond and May were in that Porsche Panamera

and it was on that long journey.

They kept leaning forward and smacking their head

on this camera which shows you actually

how big that camera was.

But now you say you put a GoPro in the front windscreen

and that's it.

As you can see there.

As you can see, I can imagine times of old.

Yeah, you've got this.

That is not a GoPro.

So it's interesting, there's lots of different,

overheating has become a big problem.

That's, particularly for some of these longer shoots

with Misha there, terrifying me at will.

The lap is what is that, eight minutes or so.

Yeah, yeah.

It's just you eat through them, they get really hot.

Anyway, I'm getting bored about camera techie stuff.

There you go, Ben with the iPhone.

Wow, that's it.

And you know, it makes for good footage, you know?

I can't remember what I was recording.

I think I was recording him overtake someone.

I've got another one in the helmet that's about to fall off.

Which is one of the go characters.

I should have, I didn't stick it on properly.

Yeah, but I just say you've got the freedom now

of going, yeah, that'll make a good video.

And rolling with it.

Where I suppose back in the old days it would be,

have to go through the brooch and team.

Oh, the committee.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So yeah, after going, I did a couple of TV bits

and then to get commissioned for an idea,

you have to create a format and you have to present it.

And then someone says, oh, we need to change,

we change a couple of things.

And they go, oh, okay.

So they want to change some stuff and I'm like,

it's not as good, but okay, fine.

And then after months and months of messing about

having conversations and meetings in London,

they decide not to do it.

And I sort of went on that like this sort of cycle

for a while and I was like, this is completely pointless.

This is not going anywhere.

So just to go and do my own thing.

And that's definitely the way to go.

There are things to absorb and commissioned,

but I mean, I like streaming content.

The television sucks.

Do you know what?

I can say, since I've moved house,

I've not had teleplugged into an active aerial plot.

No.

I don't enjoy watching TV anymore.

It's crap.

The program is crap.

Yeah.

I love a binge series.

Oh, series, great.

Loving Foundation, have you seen that?

No.

That's epic.

That's amazing.

A bit of Isaac Azimov, brilliant series,

really cool stories.

I love a bit of sci-fi.

Yeah.

So I love those binge series.

But yeah, their tele is really not there.

They're on all on Netflix anyway, aren't they?

Netflix or Amazon or whatever.

I mean, you look back at like,

Friday night tele, Saturday night tele,

you'd look forward to it.

Now it's like, what's that?

It's lost the mojo.

That's it.

But I suppose back in the day,

I mean, I think a lot of people were one of this,

what was it like working with the trio?

Terrible.

That was great fun.

I mean, we did have very different roles.

And so the really cool days were the studio days.

Yes.

We'd get the audience in,

get the celebrity in, train them in the car.

We'd have a hypercar or supercar,

a car that had to be lapped.

But we would break out into do our own tasks.

So I'd be on the track doing my thing.

The guys would be prepping and they had loads,

working really hard.

They'd already put a load of effort

into all their research and scripts and ideas.

The production team would have all the newspapers out,

scanning what was current right there,

right now for those sections.

So it was really when you got to see

every element of the show running in harmony

to get things going.

And there was definitely,

there was time pressure to it all.

And it was exciting to watch

and being watching it being filmed live

in front of the audience and watching them laugh

or not laugh and the guys didn't get it well

or whatever they had to react to it and deal with it.

But the cool for me, the interaction was largely

on those days around training the celeb

and then feeding back a bit with Jeremy

or talking about the car, how did it handle?

So things that they would be able to use

on the hoof when they were describing what was happening

and the away shoots where I would get involved

probably in some of the planning side of things.

So if we're going to go to,

we did an amazing drag race in Abu Dhabi

with the McLaren F1 versus the Bugatti Bay Room.

Oh yeah, wow.

What a clip.

Yes, there's loads of prep behind it

because we were concerned for instance

that at 200 miles an hour, whatever,

I think it was beyond 165,

if the wheel hits a cat's eye,

there was a concern that it could damage the rigidity

of the structure and integrity of the sidewall

because that Michelin tyre is under,

it does an amazing job

because it can sustain the speeds of 250 miles an hour.

It's not the speed, it's the downforce pressure.

So it's putting enormous forces through the tyre.

So if you smack it into something really hard

like a cat's eye at those speeds,

the cat's eye doesn't really have time to move out the way.

So it can ding, the sidewall can't compromise it

and you can't really see it and it could cause it.

So we were planning all these different things

how we would avoid the cat's eyes.

Which section to use, avoiding the bridges,

where we're gonna position the marshals safely.

So that was really cool.

So again, a lot of my time is spent with the production team

and then we would go travel out,

catch up with Hammond and make it happen.

Maybe have to uncover something here

but when we saw the specials,

the Stiggs American cousin, the Stiggs Chinese cousin,

what was that really?

Was that you?

Of course.

I've got a black belt.

No, I think you can tell from the height difference.

Yes.

When it wasn't me.

And there was a couple of them maybe spent a bit too much time

with the pub as well.

There were some beer bellies as well.

There was Rig Stig, it was pretty big.

They did ask me to do the American Stig.

They said, we wanted to fly out wherever it was,

put a fat suit on and not drive very quickly.

I was like, oh, I get it.

So I did German Stig with the mullet.

Ah, right.

That felt, that fire was fine.

And I did Green Stig, which was the eco one.

I think he had a green outfit with Birkenstocks.

That was the truth in what car that was.

They made one, I think.

They made something dreadful that broke.

Obviously, they built it themselves.

Was it the electric eagle hammer thruster thing,

was it?

I can't remember actually what it was.

It was that bad, I don't remember it.

No, no.

Well, there you go.

What is your, what is your favorite,

from a fast, the fastest point of view,

but also it might be just one

that you absolutely love to drive.

What is the fastest and your favorite race car

that you've driven either on top gear or just around the track?

Road car or just general car?

Just general, just.

The favorite was the Porsche Carrera GT.

Yes.

Again, the V10 engine.

Good choice.

Keep talking about V10s.

We missed them in Formula One.

The sound is just amazing.

But it's also the way that they respond.

You touch the throttle.

It's sort of instantly the RPMs shift up very, very rapidly.

So you feel like you've got total engagement

with what the car's doing.

The sound of that car is amazing.

So it's such a high-revving engine.

And a manual as well.

And a manual.

And it's a bit nervous.

So it was challenging, which immediately gets you,

you lock in because you get the adrenaline

because you've got to focus.

It's a really surgically precise car.

Once I kind of bonded with it, it was fantastic.

And it looks visually stunning.

So it ticks every box.

Because I think it can be great to drive,

but it's ugly, you know.

But the Carrera GT is pretty special.

And it got a bad rap because the clutch was difficult to operate

because it was kind of a racing clutch.

So it embarrassed a few people

that were never driven a racing car,

which is most of us.

Most people haven't raced cars

to get used to that type of edginess.

And it was a little bit loose, but they've...

It's interesting.

They took it back to the Nurburgring on a modern tyre.

And it went really a lot further.

I think it beat the 918, which is the model I've got.

So it went multiple seconds faster.

It's a great machine.

So it's timeless.

Do you think cars have lost that these days?

I mean, there's some very, very good cars

that I'm gonna, no doubt.

But do you think cars have lost?

Yeah.

Do you think they've lost that personality?

Yeah.

Yeah, you know, I think it's quite arrogant

of the, I don't know who I'm labelling,

aiming this at,

to think that the average driver can't feel

everything that's going on in the car.

Actually, they can.

So the feedback you get through the pedals

and the steering and sensations in your bum,

you know, all of that feedback is really important.

And the feedback through the wheel

actually is something that the manufacturers just,

I would just take it away

because they've been told to, to save for efficiency.

I think, you know, with the...

So the steering wheel is mostly disconnected.

So it's electric controlled.

It saves a tiny percentage of energy.

So they've like, well, we'll do that.

Well, that means now the steering wheel is a divining rod

connected to the wheels that tell you

whether the tyres are gripping or not.

And it creates engagement, keeps you awake partly

because you've got this feedback coming through.

And you know the difference from feeling the steering wheel

if you're on ice or tarmac

or if the water's affecting the tyre or whatever.

So that's annoying, that's gone.

I've annoyed that handbrakes have gone.

Don't like push buttons.

I know.

You don't know really if they're on or not.

No.

And they're just like, stop, you know.

And all get off.

Off or on.

It stops the handbrake turn.

How could we do a handbrake turn?

Can't do a handbrake turn.

And you can't...

And also, if you need to get out of jail

when you're stopping on ice and you've left it,

you've made a mistake, you know,

all of the brakes that usually the amount of it

will go through the front.

So the rear tyres aren't doing anything basically.

And you can lean on the handbrake

in a straight line to try and stop if you have one.

So again, backward move.

Bring back the handbrake.

And also the one, the auto stop feature.

I don't like that.

That's annoying.

It's even worse now, because you get into a new car

and you find yourself turning the stop start off,

the speed limit warning off.

And before you know it,

you've spent two minutes of your time turning it off.

The stop start thing is it does not do what they think

they want it to do.

They want it to save fuel, for instance,

and save resources, be more sustainable.

But actually what it does, it saves bugger all.

And what it does do is it kills the battery.

So you have to replace the battery more often.

So you will pay for it,

because you'll have to pay 240 quid, as I just had to,

to replace the battery that's been stressed

by being on and on and on and off,

it's doing 10 times the work.

And the batteries just go in the bin, they're not recycled.

So what do we save?

Actually, efficiency-wise, overall, if you net that out,

it wouldn't save you anything.

No.

Combined with the fact that 99% of people,

if they know how to, they turn it off anyway.

And I've just read that, yeah, without being too negative,

but the next directive is that

all the new cars will have to have a black box

or something fitted.

Yeah, that doesn't surprise me.

Well, yes, we're going to buy one of those.

No, that's it.

You're going to have like McLarens now and Ferraris,

that max speed of 70 miles an hour.

Everybody's going to drive a McLaren and a Ferrari.

Yeah, naught to 70.

What's the difference between a Tiguan and a Porsche GT3 RS?

Nothing, they both do 70.

Well, that's the beauty of second hand.

Yeah.

You can still choose what you want.

Yeah.

What is a, okay, track side of part,

what is your favorite brand, would you say,

or brand or what would you enjoy getting into most and driving?

I don't have a favorite, so...

I love, I've been so lucky to meet all these different personalities

from all the different companies over the years.

And there's from, you know, Koenigsegg, Ferrari, McLaren,

they're all completely different approaches

to these different engineering solutions.

Yeah.

Audi, another one, you know, Peugeot.

Those two different camps when they were racing at Le Mans

could not have been more different.

And so, you know, at Le Mans, they'd be neck in neck.

You never knew which one was going to win the Le Mans series

or the race.

And you'd have the sort of the German approach,

which was, you know, risk control.

You know, engineering is amazing.

And they were removing, yeah, they were,

it was, I suppose, kind of more what you'd expect.

And the French way was, give everything maximum.

Push everything.

Everybody drives this car as fast as it will humanly go.

At all times, you'd take, you know,

maximum risk, put everything into it.

And when they lined it up, they were completely unbeatable.

And it was interesting hearing each camp,

how they would eye each other across the pit lane.

Totally different approaches.

Equally valuable.

So, you know, it's amazing watching the,

I've spent a lot of time recently with Ferrari

with the new F80, which is incredible.

It's got to, you know, got to do a review on that.

That's peak technology.

It's everything they've learned in F1,

everything that's been banned from F1.

They've loaded it into this new hypercar.

Nice.

Which they've always done pretty well, haven't they?

They've always had like the F1 tech

put into their road cars, haven't they?

But I feel like now, because of how techy they are,

they've been able to go right.

There you go. That's all of it.

Have the lot. Yeah.

It's so unbelievably fast.

I don't know that most people will ever get near the limit.

I mean, even in the time I had on the track,

I thought, just do with a few more laps

to really say I've, you know, maxed out with it.

Because in the high speed, it's just phenomenal.

It's a, you can turn up at 160, 70 mile an hour corner

and just fire the steering wheel in

and the car will just take it.

It's got some active suspension, active arrow.

And so it just braces itself and obeys.

Then it goes. It's so sophisticated.

Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty amazing.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

You've driven, like you said,

you've driven Test Drive, whatever,

literally every car out there.

You've been the Stig. You've been a professional racing driver.

Looking back now, when you did get into it,

we always ask, like, what does success mean to you personally?

What does it mean?

You know, have you got to this point now

and say, do you know what?

I've done everything I wanted to do.

It's interesting. No, I'd say it's the answer.

I look at what went well.

I'm pleased with what went well.

I look at what didn't do so well.

So I suppose, I don't know, I think it's a tough one.

I guess really success to me is,

can I maximize my potential in the area I'm focused on?

Did I do that?

And I don't think you'll ever be,

I don't think any sportsman could ever be satisfied

with anything they've done.

I'm no different.

So, but equally, I'm realistic.

And there's such time in the day, years in your life.

You can just go for it and enjoy the ride, really.

It's an incredible journey.

And I've been lucky to be able to have different strands

along the way.

So yeah, motorsport, I love to have continued going.

I love to have won Le Mans.

And maybe I'll still get a chance to go and win Le Mans.

But I've still, you know, I've loved what I have done.

So movies, it's different again.

But being involved with some of the best crews in the world,

you know, working on some of these incredible films,

Star Wars, Bond, Fast and Furious.

And the beauty of that success is a shared success.

And you get to see it on the screen looking,

and it's best possible light.

And you look at it there and you go, oh gosh,

I've forgotten, you know, the days where we sat there

for eight hours waiting to do something, you know,

nervous or expectant.

And, you know, the work that goes into it,

but the work that goes into it is also, you know, phenomenal.

It's incredible teamwork.

And the prep, you do months of prep for these,

some of these car chases, which of course,

you never, you know, you could wing it,

but to do it safely, you need to really prep it.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, that must be pretty cool to look back on it.

It's that you've worked on these films,

you know, you said Fast and Furious.

And they're there forever.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

But what, I mean, where do you even start with prep

for all those things?

Do you sort of run it through virtually first

or do you sort of, do you do it,

do you sort of do that chase multiple times

over and over again?

How does that, what does that look with,

with movie stunt driving really?

I find it fascinating because there's a,

one of the expressions is turning the impossible

into the possible.

Yeah.

So you read a book or something and you go,

well, that's impossible.

But now there's lots of different way.

You've got some, you've got CGI,

which, you know, is creating,

they're made up images basically.

So for instance, a Bond movie,

they use no CGI.

Ah.

So back to your point or how do you do it?

You know, it's, this might be seemingly impossible

because, but it's,

the innovation is unreal.

I mean, they will find a way.

So I'm trying to think of,

of a really good example.

But the recent Bond movie was,

is a good one.

The bike stuff,

which I have nothing to do with bikes.

And the stunt coordinator for that film,

Lee Morrison, the massive bike guy.

So this was right up his street.

That helps, yeah.

He's into everything.

He's done every type of stunt.

But, but if, if,

if he's got half an hour at the weekend,

he's out on his bike.

And there was this colossal jump.

So I think Bond is,

they were in Matera.

He does this huge jump of this ramp

and then twist it through the air and lands.

It was quite,

it was extremely complicated.

And, you know, the,

if it went wrong because of the heights,

it was a, you know,

it was a dead drop basically.

So they had to work a way around it.

So they designed a platform to sort of practice

the jump straight and then work out

once they'd,

once that was consistent,

how to hop him over the wall.

And then I got a bird's eye view

because I got dressed up as one of the

wedding ceremony that was in the way

when he sort of screamed through,

which was great fun.

So I got to watch him

actually fly this bike over the wall

and just skid it through the streets.

It looks amazing on the big screen,

but when you're there

and you just see the sparks coming off,

off the footpegs,

as he clips the wall

and disappears at the cobbled streets.

It's epic.

It feels a bit real at that point.

Yeah.

Skyfall, another one.

I was thinking back to the bikes.

I always feel sorry for the bikes

because if they fall off,

they just hit the ground

and it bangs their legs and stuff.

But they had to ride across the rooftops

with no helmets because

that's, you know,

it's a bond chase.

You can't just go all on a bike

and one of them's done this

and it's just, they didn't have it.

Yeah, they don't have time for the straps on.

They use these clever skull caps,

which you can't see,

which is sun protection,

but the precision they had to have

riding across the top is unreal.

And then jump through a glass,

massive freeze of glass

into an uphill sort of stone floor,

which means that as you hit the

glass, you go completely blind.

You've got multiple seconds

and you can't see anything.

So it's really complex stuff,

but they found a way.

They rehearsed it.

They planned it meticulously

to make it work.

Yeah.

So a lot of people might think,

oh yeah, it's all CGI,

but actually...

None of it is CGI there.

That's interesting.

Again, especially with the crashes.

So there are some that are unmanned,

but the big gnarly one,

there's one where the Land Rover

tips over the...

I think it was a Land Rover.

Yeah, it does multiple flips.

Well, that's our friend Martin.

He did that.

And it's a cannon the car over,

and it's brutal, brutal hits.

Yeah.

So yeah, again, there's technique

and precision to it.

It's not just like,

oh, well, let's see how this goes

and hope.

It's all executed really well.

They did one in Casino Real,

didn't they?

I don't know if it was the

actual Asura kit car.

Real car.

It was.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

So they literally just rolled a...

Adam Curley, who has the world record

for rolls.

And if I get this wrong,

he'll shoot me in the comments.

11 and three quarters,

I think it is.

Wow.

That's so good, isn't it?

Yeah.

So...

In what?

It was a DB9, I think.

Okay.

Wow.

It was either a DB9 or a DBS,

or a DBS that was a converted

DB9.

Anyway,

it was an expensive Aston.

Yeah.

It went further than they expected

and they were delighted.

Yeah.

I'd be like,

I'd be crapping myself.

But yeah,

Adam was really pleased with that one.

New record.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, brilliant.

That makes watching it

that so much better,

I suppose,

knowing that that was real.

That crash was real.

Yeah.

And it was the boss's girlfriend

lying on the road.

Oh, was it really?

Yeah.

Oh, wow.

There you go.

There's a lot of responsibility there.

That's brave.

Yeah.

I love the...

Was it the Lamborghini

Countach that they used

in War for War Street?

That was actually a real...

Was that real as well?

Yeah.

They smashed it up

and then it was like,

it became art.

So,

I think it's...

I think it's real that smashed up.

Yeah.

It's recently sold, isn't it?

Yeah.

I don't think it drives well.

No, I can imagine not.

No, no, no.

I don't think it ever did.

No.

Old Leonardo

who just couldn't drive it straight.

No, no, no.

What a great feel.

Yeah, that's an amazing one as well.

I had no idea how much

that would be interested

to see how much that actually

sold for,

to be honest with you,

but...

You can put in the

on screen now.

Yeah.

I know you mentioned

you took every time,

every day at a time

and you knew eventually,

I suppose,

it was going to stop at some point.

Did you feel...

Was it a down

in your life

or was it actually a case of

a bit of weight off your shoulders?

I can just be...

I could be mean now.

I can sort of enjoy

and not have to worry

about my identity coming out.

How did that feel

on that very last?

Interesting question.

So,

the weird reaction I had

when someone...

I was very...

I've gotten very good

at not telling the truth

about

what I did.

So,

because

there aren't that many racing drivers around.

So,

mates will be like,

oh, you're the stick, aren't you?

Yeah.

And I'm like, no.

You know,

I'm going to keep a straight face there.

Just because

I'm a racing driver.

I'm the only race driver you know,

so of course I'm the stick.

So,

there'll be lots of ways

you confuse people.

Yeah.

But when it's in print

and someone slaps a magazine down

and points at your picture inside,

it's very difficult to defend that.

Yeah.

So,

and strangely,

and I then had a phone call

from someone at Bebe.

And I was like,

this is the end.

And there was a weird sense of...

It was bizarre.

I did feel a weird sense of relief

because I've been,

you know,

Sure.

Covering the job

for a long time.

Didn't want it to end.

And I didn't realize

that there was a bit of tension

until I was like,

that's odd.

I shouldn't feel relieved.

I should be pissed off.

And then the phone call,

I was like,

bloody organic.

This is the call where I get fired.

He wasn't firing me.

And I was like,

all right.

And then it kind of like,

who,

and who organized this

magazine thing?

It's like, okay.

So it was them.

So,

but still,

the cat was out of the bag.

And after that,

I did sort of felt

I was on borrowed time

and the suggestions of

being replaced,

becoming bit more noisy

from certain quarters.

So I felt that this was going to

happen.

And in the end,

I thought it's time to go.

Yeah.

There were a few other reasons

as well.

I was loving it,

but this,

that side of,

just this back pressure

seemed to be getting to a place

where I thought, no,

I think I've had a great time.

Let's call it a day.

And I'll have my notice in,

which is why,

which is what I did

at the start of the last,

my last series.

And then,

so a good conversation,

initially with my boss,

BBC didn't take it so well

and took me to court.

So I had a,

I planned to release a book

after I'd left,

you know,

and I wanted it all to be above

board.

And their reaction to that was

to put an injunction on it and

me,

which would have,

which if it had been successful

would have been a lifetime gag.

We wouldn't be having this

conversation.

And you know,

it's like,

well,

on what basis?

So,

thought that,

won the case

and the book came out,

Man in the White Suit

and did really well.

And it was a great

celebration of my time.

I'd loved,

you know, I loved it.

I was a completely positive

reflection on my,

my days,

my favorite stories.

And so,

after eventually,

I mean,

but that,

that section was extremely tense.

Yeah.

I could imagine.

I would have lost everything

as they did point out to me.

Yeah.

And that's it on what a

negative way to finish

what has,

what was such a

lifetime opportunity really.

It was tricky.

The good thing is,

I did bury the hatchet with my

boss

about six months later.

Okay.

So we did,

we sort of got back together

to do something really cool

for Help for Heroes,

training the wounded soldiers

and getting ready for Dakar.

So that was great.

And watching that.

Yeah.

And subsequently,

you know,

caught up with all the presenters

and,

and I've been working a lot

with Richard Hammond,

who I'll get on really well with.

So we've done a lot of

filming with Drive Tribe

and things like that.

So,

you know,

all is good.

Nice,

nice to sort of,

I suppose,

end it on a high now

and still,

yeah,

work with the people

having been,

walk away,

having to completely sort of

draw a line

and never be able to talk about it again.

Yeah.

Can you imagine?

Yeah.

Also,

you know,

what do you do for the last eight years?

Nothing much.

Yeah.

Can't talk about it.

It made sense.

No,

never what I'd signed up to.

So,

no, it's good.

Yeah.

And I'm trying to think

what their argument was

or like

what they thought,

how,

you know,

what negative could have come

from releasing a book

and talking about it.

I don't really see the point.

No,

I think that it was,

a foot soldier

was doing something

it wasn't told to

and there was a bit of rage there.

So,

but anyway.

Yeah.

It's in the past.

Yeah,

absolutely.

And then the three went on

then to do the grand tour,

didn't they?

Have any involvement

in that at all

or was that?

No,

nearly.

I was,

I was due to go

and do something with them.

I was going to do

but Hammond broke his leg

in the RIMAC.

So,

that was the day before

we were due to shoot something

and there was another,

I can't remember,

one other occasion

where I might have gone in there,

but they had to

make a clean break

from top gear

to couldn't use the same format.

They had to do something different,

but I think they wanted

to go a different direction.

So, they had the American

Yeah.

Mike Skinner.

Oh, yeah.

The NASCAR boy.

He was doing the times for them

and this,

yeah,

it's for them.

The driving,

the pro driver element

in the area of Pistak.

Yeah.

So, I think,

you know, they reinvented it.

Yeah, sure.

And they,

they did,

yeah, they had the American

and then they switched to,

what was her name?

Yes, they switched it,

you switched to Abbey.

Yeah.

I've completely,

I never even thought about it

at the time,

but yeah,

why did they switch

to Abbey?

Contracts and

I don't know.

But,

yeah,

it's,

and the wishes now stopped.

So,

yeah,

the track bits,

the Ebola dream.

Yeah.

Wasn't much of a track.

No, no.

I think,

I didn't take,

I couldn't take that section

as seriously.

I don't,

it wasn't as serious.

I mean,

I liked Dunsfold's great.

It's a great,

it's a cool place.

You've got a mix of,

there's nothing really slow.

So,

but there's some lowest speed

corners,

some good medium

and some high speed.

And you do actually get,

and it's bumpier than it looks.

It looks really flat,

but there are some little

bumps there that you,

you,

the test the car.

You can see how well it holds

the road and whatnot.

I thought it was a really good

test bed.

The Ebola,

not so much.

There's some Mickey Mouse cars there.

Not go-cart type,

but it had that sort of feel,

didn't it?

Quite flat,

quite,

slower corners.

Yeah.

And it didn't,

they actually didn't look good

either though.

So,

okay,

racing around it,

it wasn't as an interest

doing as like a thrilling track.

But actually,

when you did have the,

the slow corners,

they looked a lot better

than Ebola,

at the Ebola dream,

because

they just didn't look great.

You know,

you go around like the old ladies

how it did look like this.

Ah,

they couldn't get a proper track.

So,

the best thing on the Mark Webber

one,

that was good.

Yeah.

Where he pretended he couldn't

drive in a non-brand car.

It was quite funny.

Yeah.

What do you,

do you think Top Gear

sort of evolved now into,

you know,

you mentioned drive tribe,

what you're doing on YouTube.

There's so many

different production companies,

different

YouTubers who have like,

sort of taken influence from

what Top Gear was.

Do you think Top Gear,

in its TV format,

could ever be as successful

as it,

as it was?

Probably not.

No.

But that's,

but that's,

but that's the,

actually the silly thing for me

to say because

there are formats on YouTube

that are gigantic.

But the thing is,

they're,

but they're staying on YouTube.

Yeah.

So,

unless they're going to fold

back into doing something

on a TV format,

then,

then I'd,

I think,

what I'm saying might be correct.

So,

you're right.

As well,

the,

it's,

it's been amazing going into

YouTube land

and seeing how many people would,

they say,

love Top Gear's,

what got me into doing

car stuff on YouTube.

It's awesome.

Yeah.

Whether it's building,

like,

so,

Freddie Tabarish in the States,

he loves Top Gear.

He loved the challenges

where they're building a catering

and doing this like the other.

And he's doing his P1

and he's doing some amazing stuff.

Wow.

Yeah.

He's doing some amazing stuff.

That's,

he's out engineering.

Yeah.

McLaren's original design.

Yeah.

Once he finishes it.

You've got to finish it, Freddie.

Yeah.

Is he trying to buy

the whole eternity

and repair of

and have all through?

Probably.

It does that way, doesn't it?

Yeah.

He's a,

you know,

a big supporter of McLaren,

you know,

living in the States.

He loves McLaren.

I mean,

he's got,

he's 675,

isn't he?

He's got the P1 now.

So,

you know,

like the McLaren.

But he's Aston.

He's like,

He's Aston's as well.

Yeah.

It's amazing how far it's traveled.

Yeah.

So,

I don't know,

I think

they,

they definitely struck gold

with the original crew,

I think,

right,

people,

right place,

time.

Sure.

And it's a hard act to follow.

Not say it's that,

what's come since,

hasn't been good fun.

But I think,

I think I saw sort of recently where

they sat down

and they sort of said

they parked it

which I think is a really big

thing with TV.

They didn't just keep going

and going and going

to the point where people

were thinking,

I can't watch this anymore.

They,

they,

they saw an opportunity and went,

Let's call it now.

Sorry.

Yeah.

Mike Brewer.

We recently did a podcast

with Mike Brewer.

I did.

Oh, you did,

sorry.

Yeah.

What an interesting stuff.

Oh yeah.

I mean,

what an interesting guy.

But this was simple.

This is just,

I'm really above that.

I haven't.

I don't think

I've bought

too much

and lost money.

Yeah.

I count that

as being ripped off.

Yeah.

Or at least getting

and making a mistake.

It's just really

interesting chatting to him

about the house

and where's,

where not to.

It's not obvious.

No.

It's like,

if you get excited,

then you're in trouble.

Yeah.

You've got to buy cool.

Yes.

Yeah.

Essentially.

He's doing it very calculated way.

Yeah.

And you've got to buy

the first generation.

You can't buy

the cool fourth generation

where they've perfected it

before they've moved on.

It's got to be like the,

What is he up to?

Yeah.

I watched,

he accidentally got in a car chase.

Did you see that?

Yeah.

His little face.

Yeah.

Once he's come,

I can't remember his camera man's name

in the back.

You saw his face

thinking,

what the hell am I doing?

I think

that whole series thing

people really love those.

You know, like the,

the most wanted driver,

or he did,

he did one about his,

yeah.

His battle with a,

a local council representative.

That was an amazing one

with his house.

I don't know if you saw that.

No, I haven't.

Fantastic.

I think it's

there was some sort of implication from the police,

please don't do this.

Don't release that

until we say you can,

you are not going out there,

you know, advertising that,

oh yeah,

we didn't chase this guy

because he went too

quickly.

You can park,

that for a while.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah,

on that note,

though,

my one of my favorites,

guilty pleasures is

night cops.

On,

tell me.

They've still got

because you're just like, how does this happen?

Remember the old American ones?

I can't, I'm not gonna attempt to do the accent.

Go for it.

But it's just, no, it's just in my head.

Do you remember the old American chase it are?

They were amazing.

Is it the commentator?

The commentator is a newscaster.

You, his, yeah, his, it's in all of our heads.

Anybody who watched any of those,

we know, you know, it's in there.

Yeah, fantastic.

They're a great product.

They got some proper chases on.

You've got people stealing tanks

and driving off in trucks

wrong side of the reservation.

I know, that's scary.

But they're not worried about

smashing their cars up over there.

You know, you think so.

Because they've got big ball bars on them.

And, you know, we're in the UK,

they're using, you know, you've got brand new S3s

and Goal Files and that.

Do they really want to do-

What, the police?

Yeah.

Are they driving it?

Yeah.

Are the police driving?

I only ever see a Peugeot 308 or whatever.

You're interceptors.

That's not over here.

Yeah, the interceptors are.

Are we a bit worried about

damaging our cars rather than

the American ball guard, ball bars?

Well, I deal with a lot of these body shops

who I don't think the police

are worried about damaging these cars.

Right.

They're seeing some of how well

some of our customers are doing,

shall we say, on these contracts

with the police repairing their vehicles.

I don't think they're that bothered.

But just back to racing,

as you mentioned, like looking back on your career,

your professional career in racing.

And we've spoke about Formula One.

If you talk about Lewis Hamilton,

for me, he's like my idol.

I absolutely loved him.

Loved him through his career,

watching him.

I've watched him ever since falling in love with F1.

But how does your viewpoint

stand on him getting older now in Formula One?

And there's that question that they put out there.

They did it with Alonso.

You're getting older now.

Is he just struggling in the car?

Is it the car?

Is it the move to Ferrari?

What's your sort of standpoint on

as you naturally get older in racing?

Is he going through that at the minute?

Well, I wouldn't like to say

because I don't have enough information on that.

But the facts of life are that it's a very graduated thing.

Or it can be faster.

But what I find bizarre is flipping that on its head.

It's crazy to think that an 18-year-old

can turn up and be competitive

against people who've been doing it for years.

I find that mind-blowing.

Yeah.

Antonelli.

Well, but he hasn't delivered it yet.

He's got the raw talent that needs to be,

but he's got to stitch them together.

I didn't watch the last one.

How did he get on at Monza?

I think he was like eighth or ninth, I think.

OK, so it's coming together.

But to be fair, some of the others have come in.

Lewis, Max, they came in and then also a bang.

They're straight there.

And how have you done that?

So the raw ability and a young age.

So, yeah, there is a moment where maybe,

I think it would be imperceptible

to figure out what it is that's not quite as quick.

But really, the whole task is down to your GPU, CPU,

your processing power, your cognitive ability

to juggle the thing at its total extreme, microseconds,

and through an hour and a half,

not just for one little moment or one lap, whatever.

Also, your vision does change, deteriorates.

So that changes.

So there are a few physical things that do start to kick in.

There's also all the hormonal stuff.

So you need to get an F1 doctor in here.

They'll tell you, basically.

I think you can, there's a lot,

but I also think there's a lot you can overcome

because it is so cerebral and if you're determined.

And Alonso is still punching it out of the park

when he wants to.

And I'll never forget watching Roberto Moreno.

I think he was 40, which was seen as ancient.

But it was probably the most competitive season.

I was racing in Indy Lights in America

and it was the Indy Kart Championship at the time.

They had Montoya, Dario Frencitti, Greg Tracy,

another one, we're missed out.

Greg Moore and there was loads,

because I know Rodriguez,

there was so many really talented drivers

and it was super competitive.

And it was really being,

at the time he was dominated by Chip Ganassi with Montoya.

And one of the cars got vacated.

I think it was Blondel's car.

And Roberto Moreno just turned up.

He had not been racing in the season, he was 40.

And he won three races, I think it was on the trot.

I was like, how have you done that?

How is it possible?

See, I think he showed, you can come in and do it.

I think Zanardi's another one who,

well, he's, you know, he went from F1 to Indy Kart.

And, you know, so there are,

there's stories out there where people have overcome age.

But there is a moment where it does change.

So I don't know, I don't know.

There's also with the, you know, the regulations change

that certain types of car will suit different drivers.

Cause that caught out, I think Alonso,

when Lewis joined McLaren, Alonso was very fast.

The regs changed.

And he was kind of slightly back footed by that.

And I think Lewis came in fresh like, let's go.

That was, it was his first experience.

He went straight in at it.

And Alonso was adapting to something new.

I'm not trying to make an excuse or say Lewis didn't do

as well as he did do, cause she did.

And so, yeah, cars can make a difference too.

Yeah. And the regs change again next year, don't they?

Yeah. So that'd be interesting.

And then another team, is it Chrysler, I think,

going in next year?

So there'd like be 11,

even that's just an interesting dynamic

to throw in another team that has been 10 for so long.

So. But Lewis has been racing a long time.

I would not want to place a bet against him.

No. Doing any kind of,

anything's possible.

He's been there a long time.

So, and also there's a part of you where,

if you haven't really, I don't know,

anyone's like, well, I've, I think I've done it.

If that moment comes, you need to leave.

Yeah. Whenever you are.

Yeah. And they all have, they all have different,

you don't know who's going to leave when.

No.

His, his drive, his determination,

just to literally stick it out and wants to win

every single year, year after year,

when he's ahead, okay, he's equal with,

with Schumacher, but he's got every stat,

hasn't he really going for him?

Yeah. His tenacity to just want to keep winning.

Yeah. It's admirable, but it's also like,

the others must be like, give us a break, you know,

when are you leaving?

Give us all the chance.

I'm glad he's there because the more top level people

you've got makes it, that's what we want to see, isn't it?

We want to see the best of the world battling.

Yeah. Yeah. Of course we do.

May or may not be able to tell too much about this,

but is it true that you used to do

a little bit of military drive training?

I did. Yeah. That was cool.

Yeah. I loved it. Yeah.

So, funny enough, there's a big overlap

between evasive driving,

which is what they call it in the security land,

getting out of trouble, getting away from trouble

and stun driving. Yeah. Yeah. Sure.

So, you were talking about handbrake turns

and things like that.

So, from, yeah, the stuff that you learn

one way or another, but particularly

from doing stunt sequences like J-turns

and all these different things,

those are also useful skills for getting away from trouble.

So, high speed reversing and all those sort of things.

So, I did do some training with military,

with that kind of thing and also independently through,

for security companies that are, you know,

putting people into hostile environments around the world

that needed to be able to escape and evade at speed.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, it's fascinating actually to find

that there was a good real world application,

as opposed to just being a hooligan

for some of those techniques.

And I, you know, we talked about police driving

and I did a load of research around it

and one of the big motivations to get involved

was learning that actually the police get,

you know, they get really thrown in at the deep end.

They don't do any track driving, which I couldn't believe

because if you're going to learn to drive at speed,

you need to be on track. Yeah.

Of course. End of. You're absolutely right.

To have the space and the safety

to experience what the car's doing when it's on the,

you know, when it's exposed to the limit

where the tyre starts skidding,

the front of the rear. What it's on the steer,

what's oversteer. Exactly.

Just to identify that, I was amazed

that they would even consider

doing any high speed driving without that

and that's still the case.

So, that was remarkable.

They still do the push and pull.

Yeah. I get angry comments now from all those,

you know, they, in the Police Roadcraft book,

so I've read it back to back,

it's very interesting, some great, great stuff in there.

They reference what they call rotational steering,

which is what I would call normal driving.

And it's what, if you look at Formula One, rotational.

So the push and pull thing, it dates back,

I'm not kidding you, to the 1920s.

Oh, wow. When the steering wheel was as big as a yacht

and there was no power steering.

Really? And you physically had to pass the wheel,

you couldn't, no, with the straight,

you know, 10 arms, you couldn't have done it.

And that is why they were taught that in that time.

And they were told to teach the next group

of instructors the same thing that they were taught.

That has gone on for over 100 years.

That's fun.

And the, the Scandis call it milking the cow.

Yeah. I love that.

Yeah. That's great.

So that was also, it's a motivation to get, you know,

because the police are kind of seen as the,

they're the, if you like the Oracle of driving

and they were teaching the army guys.

And I thought that, well, there's an added element

that's worth doing, which is,

we should go to a track space, open space

and learn the speed techniques there.

And that's why I wrote my book.

So, you know, I've loved being an instructor

with the top gear.

The military side was brilliant

because they're, everybody you meet wants to learn

because they want to just want to achieve the,

you know, they aren't tuned into it.

Athletes are the same.

They want to learn the information,

but it made sense to try and bring

everything I'd learned into one place.

So I did how to drive as a, as a kind of one hit thing.

Everything from how to position your body in the car

so that you can use it.

Cause a lot of people will sit too far away.

They can't actually push the brake pedal from that.

Or you know, or you can't turn the steering wheel

properly because their arms are out straight.

Yeah. Yeah.

It's from the very, all like that.

All like this.

Break your nose on the steering wheel.

So from that to how to control a skid on ice.

So that was why I wanted to do it.

You know, there's only so many people

you're going to teach one to one.

Yeah. But you know, that's, that's done well.

It was, you know, it's get the message out

and get it as many people driving better

and safer, the better.

Yeah. Yeah.

How does that differ to sort of normal road driving?

So do, so how would you implement

truck work into, into road driving?

Is it the same thing, but just on more controlled?

You ever done any yoga?

No. No.

I mean, there's, I'm not a yoga,

particularly yoga, I did one lesson.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, if you've learned some breathing techniques

which through sport you get into,

I did tons of swimming.

So you, you learn how to breathe.

And again, do you walk around differently,

breathing differently afterwards?

Possibly.

But you, you definitely learn about yourself

and how you function a lot better.

So it may look, it might be small differences,

but your understanding of what you're doing

when you're driving is completely changed.

As soon as you've learned how to control speed properly,

your peripheral vision is wider.

You don't, you're not as near focused.

You look further ahead.

So your anticipation is way higher.

You're, you basically getting into an accident

should be impossible because you see it coming.

So that's the whole point of it.

And then if there is something you need to avoid,

you can do it very quickly and easily

as opposed to in a panic and getting it wrong.

But you do, there's, you know,

understanding how to keep the car stable,

what the, you know, what a good line is for a car

versus a bad one.

You know, observational stuff like, you know,

the rough dirt on the side of the road

has less grip than the main bit.

So you avoid that for a reason.

Or if you do end up on it,

you need to know that the car won't stop as quickly.

So it's just, you know,

you can read information a lot better.

Yeah. Do you think an element of that,

I'm not saying every learner driver

should do on track driving,

but do you think an element that at least a sit down session

should be taught in day to day driving lessons

of the new drivers of speed?

Just general car control.

And, you know, if your car gets into a skid,

what should you do?

And, you know, I just think these days,

I think, you know, typically a 17, 18, 19 year old

gets a bit of power and they don't know

what they're doing with it.

You know, and that's where you see them crash.

So do you think by maybe teaching learner drivers

a little bit about that world would help save?

Would you like to have spent longer doing your driving test?

No. No.

So I think it's a bit of a joke.

The whole learner driver thing now

is way too complicated.

And so I would shoot down your idea immediately.

Purely on the basis of, yes,

I think it'd be a great thing to do.

Should it be mandatory? No.

So the theory thing is off the chart, difficult.

Well, I totally agree with the theory.

The whole hazard perception thing is just a...

That has, the perception thing doesn't work.

What is it? That doesn't work.

If anyone who's a good driver, you start pressing,

I failed, I'm like, what's wrong with it?

Oh, no. You're only shown the hazard at the end.

You should have, well, but these other things were hazards.

So what are you talking about?

And you've got a time frame.

So if you click either just before or just after,

you've lost it.

The software is so crap and outdated.

So the theory thing is a nightmare and it's expensive.

And then trying to book a test is a nightmare

and it's expensive.

And there's some sort of monopoly has gone on

because you have to go through an app now.

Right. Okay. Yeah.

Anyway, so no, I don't think they should have

to do additional training.

I think they should, it should be,

I'm not saying to drop the standards,

but they're doing about five times as much probably

as you had to do to pass your tests.

And the outcome, I'm not sure is better.

No. No.

Or maybe even a scheme then where,

see insurance is so high,

maybe by doing something like on track driving

or maybe might go in someone's favour

for slightly super insurance or more reliable.

I think it's healthy for someone to go on a personal journey

of discovery to learn about how to do something better.

Yeah.

It's definitely a good thing.

You can do the advanced driving course,

which is really good.

So I loved learning how to do a car control

and that I found it to be a fantastic thing to have.

And that rare time when you,

when the car does something on in the rain,

an aqua plane or something like this

and you've got that experience versus not

and the total panic that can ensue.

I like to know what I'm doing.

So I took the most from it.

I think it's definitely that personal preference.

Yeah, sure.

And also it depends where you live.

Like if you're on a real road particularly,

I think it's super useful

because you end up with mud on the road on the tires

and you need to learn how to do it.

So I think it's a great thing to do.

Maybe not if you live in central London.

Not mandatory.

You'll be all right.

You just got to learn how to do a pothole.

Nightmare.

So I get a four by four so I can take the pothole

or I get my tires shanked by a lunatic in an orange suit.

Yeah, literally, yeah.

No, that's interesting.

And a bit of information can be dangerous.

So I think it's that's why I say it's a journey.

Like, you know, you're never going to learn

everything in a day.

You can't just go and do a caught one.

Oh, what did a go kart thing?

Now I'm, I'm, I'm now ready

to take on my racing driver.

It's definitely, it's a journey.

And it takes, it takes a while.

We have to make a joke about it

because I have had a shoddy history

with cars in driving.

Yeah, yeah.

I love cars.

I've crashed everything.

Oh, I love cars.

I just crashed everything.

Oh yeah, I'm terrible.

Patience.

So you need training.

You're impatient.

Patience.

Describe your last crash.

In Italy, I famously said,

hasn't this been great?

We've not had one problem getting all the way

from the UK down to Rome.

We're now leaving and I pulled out from the,

from the hotel and basically said,

we've had no problems, right?

Let's get going.

What a great trip.

Pulled up to a set of lights.

Had a quite quick BMW.

Somebody's in front of me in Italian,

which is quite bizarre really

because they all drive so fast,

but they were going really slow.

It changed green.

They're still sat there.

So I just went right sod this sport mode, right,

you know, right hand down to try and go into the lane.

Ah, there's a moped there.

He's now on the floor and then have all,

then I've corrected and gone left

and gone into the car.

I hit the moped, then corrected, went left

and maybe hit the woman who I was trying to go round.

Just share it.

See it too.

See, you think it's you're not going against

what you just said.

You're not a bad driver.

You're just impatient.

It's super impatient.

Just impatient.

And a bad driver, yeah.

He's a shit driver.

He's just excited.

Brilliant.

I've just been gone.

He's a shit driver.

He's been coming because I mean that was,

that was shocking.

Not only there was the obviously the erratic first move

but the response to the mistake.

To crash into something else.

Or over correct and go counter.

I can imagine exactly what you're like as well.

I bet your arms are rigid and jerky.

Do you, do your passengers complain

that they feel nauseous when you're at the wheel?

Are you on and off the brake pedal?

Let's just say that when I go out

with a colleague, he drives.

Already colleague, he drives.

Yeah.

All right.

Some people there's no helping.

You could be one of those

but I would get, I would definitely get hold of you

by the scruff of the neck and help you.

I'll try and help you.

Yeah.

I appreciate that.

First thing I would just say

you should only be driving a front wheel drive

low horsepower vehicle.

What do you currently drive?

Well to be fair I've sort of matured in some way

that the fact that I drive Porsche Macan S.

So it's got the power.

But it's, you know, you drive a Porsche like that.

You know, my, my...

It's too fast for you.

Well my fiance will often say,

she'd be like, remember you're not a BMW anymore.

So if I'm driving a bit,

she'll say, you're in a Porsche now, calm down.

You know, in a BMW don't drive like that.

She thinks that the Porsche would soothe you.

Yeah.

But it doesn't because you just got the rage on.

You don't even see the badge

and you're just like, let's go.

Yeah.

And my, my issues are

even when I set off and go, do you know what?

I'm just going to relax.

If people take ages, it is what it is.

10 minutes later, I've changed from classic FM

to someone else's car.

And I'm like, right, that's it now.

Get out of the way.

Everyone, everyone move.

Yeah.

Just zero patience.

That's my, my problem.

In all fairness, you do a lot of driving in London.

Yeah, I do. Yeah.

Yeah.

Two words for you.

Public transport.

Yeah.

Possibly.

What about you?

What have you got?

I've got an M3.

G80.

So the van is the daily.

So yeah, this, yeah, I mean, I love it.

It's fantastic.

You're a good, you're a good driver.

I'll give you, I'll give you that.

You're a good driver.

Yeah.

I'm not.

Calm yourself.

Yeah.

Basically, I just need to calm down.

I know.

Well, you know what?

It's, I think the best thing,

I've had a three month old now

and that does actually aid in thinking,

time to just, you know, we just drive,

we're just careful now.

We've got a precious cargo on board.

And I think, yeah, is a bit of a realisation to go,

yeah, it will take as long as it takes.

The Jackie Stewart School of Motorings

always is a great one.

So he would say, you should drive

as if you've got a glass of water on the dashboard

and you don't want to spill it.

That's true.

So it's so true, being smooth

and it just keeps everybody mellow

and it gives you a focus.

That's what it should be about.

It's being smooth and busty, really, you know,

like cool.

And if you get with, I don't know if you've ever been in,

I've been, especially in Europe and Italy in particular,

get picked up from the airport or something.

If you get a taxi ride,

some of the drivers, they're so good.

They're really slick.

There's usually some, there's some swearing,

but as they're going,

but if you get with a really good driver,

you're like, that's class.

They're really class.

It's quite, it's brisk, but it's,

it's smooth, nothing styles them.

And, you know, it's everything seen before it happens.

Sure.

Fast hand, slow feet and all that.

That's it.

Got all the chat, but we've got to put this into practice now.

Yeah, I know, I know.

On the next episode, Ben Cullins trains Louis how to drive.

Do you know what it's funny as well?

Where I was going with it before I last went on,

I thought was, was actually my driving instructor,

my very first driving test said,

Louis, I'm going to teach you how to pass your test.

I don't teach you how to drive.

And yeah, he was right.

That was right, yeah.

He was right.

And he did say to me as well,

you really learn, and my dad's always said it,

you learn how to drive when you're in that car

for the first time.

You start learning how to drive.

When you're in that car on your own for the first time,

after you've passed your test, then you, then you learn.

And 12 years later, I still can't drive.

Yeah, the more time you can get as the, as a, you know,

driving with a passenger with your old plates,

the better.

It's a walking experience, isn't it?

But you're right.

Yeah, it's a journey, but driving is so much fun.

I love it.

Yeah, me too.

What is next for Ben Cullins?

Where's the next step?

Well, YouTube is now my focus.

So I've got Ben Cullins drives,

and that is keeping me very happy and busy,

reviewing cool stuff.

Interesting, you've given me a good idea,

which is to start doing maybe some series ideas,

see series content, which I'm kind of doing

on a, I'm starting a farming channel for that stuff.

Well, so I've got a short series

about the sidermaking process,

which I just love it.

I just love apple trees.

I don't know why I love them.

They're beautiful.

They're, they're amazing when they blossom.

They get their gift of fruit,

and you can do lots of things with them.

So I've got small, very small farm,

and it's from an area in Devon that's famous for sidermaking.

The West country's always had arguably

the best in the world, cider.

We've got the red soil, which is incredible.

So it's got this, you know,

it's a very different climate.

You've got microclimate in Devon,

and the trees we're using

have been literally saved from extinct.

So Sanford Press, who I've got my friends there

helping me make this stuff,

rescued all these, these ancient varieties

that have been cultivated for hundreds of years,

and they're more disease resistant.

They produce better tasting fruit.

They got, you know, and I just think it's cool.

They're like antiques for their life.

So having rescued and identify

what the cultivated varieties were

that were so special to people from Devon,

and there were, you know,

the backbone of part of the economy there,

that's what I've been planting.

And so that's what this stuff is.

So it's made from the original.

Straw pressed by my own hands.

So yeah, so that's a good series, which will be fun.

Absolutely.

So yeah, I love doing the con, you know,

I love a good story.

This has been really fun,

and bizarrely relaxing.

I mean, the making process,

building this pyramid app straw and apple,

and crushing it down

with a 400 year old piece of wood.

And it's just really cool

sort of learning these old traditions

and, you know, I don't know if farming is awesome.

And it's getting up, it goes through a really hard time.

Oh yeah, definitely.

I'm hoping that this is just another good way

of trying to add something to that part of the economy.

Yeah, and carry on what's been done for years as well.

So yeah, sort of carrying on that.

Yeah, it's an amazing tradition, definitely.

And this stuff is interesting, you know, love a beer.

The side has got the antioxidants

of the US Ocean with wines.

So it's actually being gluten-free.

It's a different way of having a good tipple.

And actually the fine cider,

which is kind of, you know, it's a gritty term,

but it's sort of not sort of coughing loads of pints.

It's sort of something you can really enjoy with food,

and that's what the idea is.

That's it.

So yeah, I hope you will like it.

Well, we're yet to have a sample.

Yeah, absolutely.

So that's next.

So be planting, digging, and lots of that sort of fun,

fun stuff, but still doing what I love,

which is getting the hammer down, driving fast machines.

Maybe some films still,

but I'm having so much fun with the YouTube.

So just keep cracking into that.

And the driving school.

Yeah, and driving school.

I'll teach, if you're trainable,

I'll try and teach you.

You remind me of Randolph Fiennes.

Yeah.

I had to actually punch him in the helmet

to get him to come back into the room, Randolph.

Yeah, yeah, that is me.

I wonder.

Yeah, yeah, I do.

Yeah.

I wonder.

When they're driving.

Can I be there?

No problem.

Brilliant.

No, brilliant.

We'll look forward to seeing that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brilliant.

Well, no.

Do you actually just quickly,

do you actually get a lot of people like,

they don't want to go in the car with you

and you be the passenger?

Do you actually get a lot of...

My mum is one.

Yeah.

Generally, they're okay.

I'm pretty calm on the road.

On track, obviously, you're gonna get what you expect.

But I've always, you know,

everybody has got different fears and phobias

and mine is heights.

I'm not a big fan.

So some people are terrified.

You know, why would you want to terrify someone?

So if we're doing stuff on track,

I'll always go, are you happy to go fast?

And they go, yeah, you know they're not.

Yeah, yeah.

So you just have to cut your cloth accordingly.

Read the room.

Yeah.

And you're not what they call a backseat driver

in the sense of, you don't, ah, ah.

At least you're honest with it.

Yeah.

If someone is popping off on the brake pedal on...

Yeah.

Yeah, I don't do that.

I'll give it 10 seconds and they'll be like,

so listen, this is what you're doing.

And they go, what?

They go, right, yeah.

Even though you're doing it,

you're making the rest of us sick.

Yeah.

So cabbies love me.

Yeah.

But it's only one in 10 people that have got that,

the sin of the brake tap.

Oh, no.

Yeah.

Because you do follow these people.

Or mid-corner.

And you see the light on, on, on, on, on, yeah.

Yeah.

Mid-corner.

You tell them that they're losing money,

actually, that gets people to pay attention.

So you are burning fuel.

Stop it.

Well, I tell my missus that every time she's driving my car.

I would tell you.

And she doesn't give anybody anything.

No, yeah, well, fair to say in your lane, bro.

Oh, my God.

Literally.

Yeah, I literally can't wait to tell her that.

She's gonna love this.

Can we clip that and just keep it?

Yeah, just send it to Ellie, please.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, fantastic.

Yeah.

Do you know what?

She's actually a great, great driver.

Yeah.

So maybe she shouldn't take any advice from me.

She has given me with the whole,

sorry, how many accidents have you had?

How many have you had?

What, this year?

I don't know.

Every car I've ever owned,

every company car I've ever been given.

Wow.

Other than the black car.

Is it a yearly thing?

Yeah.

Yeah, I wouldn't say I've ever done anything stupid.

It is those moments.

Well, sorry, yeah, it is those stupid moments.

Why don't you just do GTA, get it out your system?

Because you could be impatient there.

Yeah, I do.

I wouldn't even say I drive erratic.

It's just the, I don't know.

It's just these.

Yeah.

Definitely.

Oh, I went to hit the moat.

You know a lot more than me.

Lefts, yeah.

That's erratic.

That's the definition.

Okay.

It's the definition of erratic.

It is, it is.

Oh God, I'm erratic driver.

I don't know it until now.

Fantastic.

Ben Collins telling me I'm an erratic driver.

This is part of the therapy.

This is fine.

We'll get there.

Well, I've done the session.

Yeah.

Well, there you go.

If you've enjoyed this episode of essentially Ben Collins,

The Stig, telling me I'm a shit driver,

please make sure to like, comment and subscribe

and let us know who you want on Talking Shop Next.

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