BMW M5 Touring vs Audi RS6 Performance — Carmudgeon Show w Jason Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott — Ep 194
The Carmudgeon Show
BMW M5 Touring vs Audi RS6 Performance — Carmudgeon Show w Jason Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott — Ep 194
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Car
Audi RS6 Performance
The Audi RS6 Performance is a fast and powerful wagon that offers a lot of space and luxury, perfect for those who want speed and practicality.
Car
Porsche 911 Turbo S
The Porsche Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid is a fancy car that uses both gas and electricity to go fast while also being more efficient.
Car
Porsche Panamera
Car
Mercedes-AMG S63 E Performance
The Mercedes-AMG S63 E Performance is a luxury car that is very fast and comes with a lot of high-tech features, making it great for driving in style.
Car
BMW E63
The BMW 6 Series is a fancy car that is designed for both comfort and performance. It looks sleek and is great for long drives or just enjoying a nice ride. People like to talk about it because it combines luxury with a sporty feel.
Car
Dodge Viper
The Dodge Viper is a super-fast sports car with a big engine that makes it really powerful. It's known for its bold design and thrilling performance, making it popular among car lovers. People talk about it because it's one of the most exciting American sports cars.
Term
garage creeper
A garage creeper is a tool that helps you slide under a car easily. It has wheels and makes it more comfortable to work on the underside of a vehicle.
Car
Porsche 718 Cayman GT4
The Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 is a fast sports car that is great for driving enthusiasts. It has a powerful engine and is designed to handle well on both roads and racetracks.
Term
load leveling
Load leveling is a feature that helps keep a car level when it's carrying heavy things in the back. It makes sure the car doesn't sag too much and can drive safely.
Term
adjustable headlights
Adjustable headlights are lights on a car that can be moved up or down. This helps you see better when driving fast or when the car is loaded with stuff.
Car
Infiniti Q45
The Q45 is a luxury car model made by Infiniti. It's designed for comfort and performance.
Term
Xenon headlights
Xenon headlights are a type of car headlight that shines very bright and white. They need to be adjusted automatically to avoid blinding other drivers.
Brand
Citroën
Citroën is a car brand from France. They are known for making cars that are comfortable and have interesting designs.
Term
ride height
Ride height is how high your car sits off the ground. It can change how the car drives and how the headlights shine.
Term
RS6 Performance
RS6 Performance is a special version of the Audi RS6 that has more power and better performance. It's made for people who want an even sportier driving experience.
Car
Audi Rs6
The Audi RS6 Avant is a fancy station wagon that can go really fast and has a lot of space inside. It’s designed to be both practical for families and exciting to drive, which makes it special. People like to talk about it because it combines the best of both worlds: speed and space.
Car
BMW M5
The BMW M5 is a fast and fancy car that looks like a regular sedan but can go really, really fast. It's special because it combines comfort and luxury with the ability to perform like a race car. The G99 M5 touring is a version that has more space for passengers and luggage.
Term
horsepower
Horsepower is a way to measure how powerful an engine is. The more horsepower a car has, the faster it can go.
Term
chip a car
Chipping a car means changing the computer settings that control the engine to make it more powerful. This can help the car go faster or perform better.
Car
Audi RS4
Car
Audi RS2
The Audi RS2 is a fast station wagon made in the 1990s. It has a powerful engine and all-wheel drive, making it great for both speed and handling.
Car
BMW M3
The BMW M3 is a sportier version of the regular BMW 3 Series, designed for better performance and handling. It's loved by car fans for its speed and driving experience.
Term
suspension
The suspension is the part of the car that helps it ride smoothly over bumps and keeps the tires on the road. It's important for how the car handles and feels when driving.
Car
Ford F-150 Raptor
The Ford F-150 Raptor is a tough pickup truck that can handle rough roads and off-road adventures. It's built to be powerful and fun to drive, especially when going over bumps and rocks. People like to talk about it because it's both practical for work and exciting for play.
Car
C43
The C43 is a sportier version of the regular Mercedes-Benz C-Class, designed for better performance and handling. It's a good choice for those who want a luxury car that feels more like a sports car.
Car
E63 wagon
The E63 wagon is a fast and luxurious version of the Mercedes-Benz E-Class station wagon. It has a lot of space for passengers and cargo while still being very powerful and fun to drive.
Car
Mercedes-Benz E450
The Mercedes-Benz E450 is a comfortable and high-end car that offers a smooth ride and many features. It's part of the E-Class, which is known for being a good choice for luxury driving.
Car
Porsche 911 GT3
The Porsche 911 GT3 is a super sporty version of the regular 911 car, made for people who love to drive fast and enjoy racing. It has a powerful engine and is designed to handle really well on the road or track. It's popular because it feels exciting to drive while still being comfortable enough for daily use.
Car
Porsche 911
The Porsche 911 is a famous sports car that many car enthusiasts love. The 964 is a specific version made in the early 90s, known for being a bit different from newer models.
Car
Ferrari 458 Italia
The Ferrari 458 is a fast and stylish sports car made by Ferrari. It was produced from 2009 to 2015 and is loved for its performance and looks.
Term
bumpy road mode
Bumpy road mode is a setting in some cars that makes the ride smoother when driving on rough or bumpy roads, so it feels more comfortable.
Car
Porsche Cayenne Turbo
The Porsche Cayenne Turbo is a fast and luxurious SUV. The 957 is a specific version of this model that was made between 2006 and 2010.
Term
aluminum construction
Aluminum construction means the car is made with aluminum parts, making it lighter and more fuel-efficient.
Term
torque converter automatic
A torque converter automatic is a kind of car transmission that helps the engine and wheels work together smoothly. It makes driving easier, especially when starting from a stop.
Concept
first generation M products
The first generation of BMW's M cars are the very first high-performance versions of their regular cars. They sometimes had issues that were fixed in later models, making them less perfect than newer versions.
Car
BMW E90
The BMW 3 Series is a small luxury car that is fun to drive and has a nice interior. It's known for being sporty while also being comfortable for everyday use. People often talk about it because it's a good mix of style, performance, and technology.
Term
hot V
A hot V is a way to arrange an engine's parts so that the turbochargers are placed between the cylinders. This setup helps the engine respond faster when you press the gas pedal.
Car
Volkswagen Golf
The Volkswagen Golf is a small car that is easy to drive and has a lot of space inside for passengers and cargo. It's popular because it's reliable and good for everyday use, whether you're going to work or running errands. Many people like it for its fun driving feel.
Car
Bentley Flying
The Bentley Flying Spur is a super luxurious car that is all about comfort and style. It has a powerful engine and a beautifully designed interior, making it one of the fanciest cars you can buy. People talk about it because it's a symbol of wealth and luxury.
Car
Porsche Man
The Porsche Macan is a small luxury SUV that is fun to drive and has a nice interior. It's designed to feel sporty while still being practical for everyday use, like running errands or going on trips. People talk about it because it combines the best of both worlds: luxury and performance.
Car
Mercedes-Benz Sclass
The Mercedes-Benz S-Class is a very fancy car that is all about luxury and comfort. It has lots of high-tech features and is designed to make driving feel smooth and enjoyable. People talk about it because it's one of the best luxury cars you can buy.
Car
Tesla Model
Car
Tesla Model 3
The Tesla Model 3 is a car that runs on electricity instead of gas, making it better for the environment. It's known for being fast and having cool technology, like a big touchscreen inside. People like to talk about it because it's one of the first electric cars that many people can afford.
Car
Fiat 500e
The Fiat 500e is a small electric car that is great for driving around the city. It's cute and easy to park, making it perfect for urban life. People talk about it because it's an eco-friendly option that still looks good.
Car
Volkswagen Golf GTI
The Volkswagen Golf GTI is a sportier version of the regular Golf, designed to be more fun to drive. It has a powerful engine and handles really well, making it great for people who enjoy driving. It's popular because it combines everyday use with a thrilling driving experience.
Car
Lotus Elise
The Lotus Elise is a small and very light sports car that is all about being fun to drive. It doesn't have a lot of extra features, which helps it be really quick and agile on the road. People like to talk about it because it feels like a true sports car experience.
LIVE
Hello, and welcome to this episode of the Carmage and Show, a part of the Haggerty Podcast Network. My name is Jason Camisa, that is Derek Tam, Hyphen Scott, and that over there is a BMW. A blue BMW station wagon, it is. Not the one we're talking about. Yes, we're not talking about this one at all, but that's prettier. Absolutely, it's prettier than most things. A massage chair might seem a bit extravagant, especially these days, eight different settings, adjustable intensity,
plus it's heated, and it just feels so good. Yes, a massage chair might seem a bit extravagant, but when it can come with a car. Suddenly, it seems quite practical. The Volkswagen Tiguan, packed with premium features, like available massaging front seats, that only feels extravagant.
Certainly in the station wagon department. I am not objective anymore. Yes, been too many years. In any case, we're talking about a different BMW station wagon this week, primarily the new M5 touring and all of the weight contained therein, and there is some, as everybody knows, yes.
And a variety of other competitive devices, such as the RS6 performance from Audi, and we'll touch on briefly the new Panamera.
Do you have the whole name? Porsche Panamera Hybrid ES. Turbo S E hybrid.
And then the Mercedes AMG S63 E Performance. Hold on, I think it might be an S63 S. No, because they do a C63.
E63 S also. S63 S. We're talking about wagons and fast four doors, a large heavy hybrid, mostly hybrid, with some surprises contained within.
Buckle up for the clap, which I'm about to administer.
Wow, definitely. I would give you a round of applause, but that was already one clap too many.
Okay, time for the jingle.
Put that phone away because we're on the air. It says it right there on that time.
We're in the ether. We're on the worldwide web. We're in a series of tubes.
Hey, hello, those tubes, you know who's supporting those tubes?
You, comma, tube, tube, comma, you.
Okay, those other two, these tubes, Viper.
Yes.
Viper Chair's sponsor of this episode of the Carmage and Show.
As you probably can see, this is a well-constructed piece of metal that's very heavy, so we're going to make Derek bench press it repeatedly towards the end of the show.
Okay, sounds good.
Viper, do you have a, this is called a garage creeper, right?
This is not a creeper. Creeper something in the aisle.
You are a creeper.
Okay.
Well, one, you are what you sit on.
I don't know.
Stool.
You are what you excrete.
Okay.
They've just pulled their sponsorship.
Do you have one of those?
I just got one.
You know, I have a crappy creeper because my warehouse is very small.
I bought the smallest one I can find, but it's so crappy that I'll probably replace it with this.
As soon as the sponsorship is done, if they think they're getting this back, they're wrong.
This is going to wait up in my warehouse.
It's a very luxurious device.
Initially, I was like, why do you need one of those in your garage?
But maybe it's just me getting older.
When I'm working on the Quick Jax, when they're sort of half-hide and I'm working on a wheel there, it's actually really nice to have the creeper.
Otherwise, I'm either standing now that I have a lift.
I mean, it's taking me all these decades to get one.
I typically don't use this as much.
It's good for cleaning.
When the car's on the ground, it's really good for cleaning.
And then, of course, it has the toolcatti, which is really nice.
You can throw your shit in there.
It's not all over the floor.
And, of course, as you see, this is not crappy because it has its own metal construction.
That's because a vibrant industrial was founded by two brothers in Green Bay, Wisconsin, who were car guys.
And identified any number of problems with shit in your garage, which there are as many.
Although some of them are related to my cars and cannot be saved.
Of course, I'm sorry.
Yes.
So that doesn't help.
It helps you with diagnosing it.
Don't forget that up until June 22nd, the Viper will be giving away a 2021 Python, Green Portia, and GT4.
So for every $5 you spend at Viper and industrial.com, you'll get entered for a chance to win the GT4 Plus.
$15,000 in cash.
Pay for.
Tires and breaks.
OK.
OK.
OK.
Why tell you can't help?
None of it has resale.
None of it has resale values.
I think that's the sweepstakes rule.
It's one of those rules, like no purchase required, whatever.
And also you can't tell people what hookers and blow they need to buy with them.
I mean, different strokes for different folks.
Right.
Moving on to the episode content.
Don't forget to viperandtustreal.com and it's viperindustrial.com.
Behind us, we have, for those of you not watching, a little blue wagon and some viper chairs and some viper chairs.
That is my, of course, E30 wagon, which weighs 2,862 pounds.
Slightly more than my Cosworth 190, which is 2008-45.
Neither of which have power windows or air conditioning or cruise control.
These are lightweight specials.
But they do have sunroofs.
They both have sunroofs and Mercedes's power.
They both have remote adjustable headlight aiming.
That's convenient.
Is it?
For when you have a lot of stuff in the back.
Yes, it's the substitute for load leveling.
Most people I don't think realize that the Mercedes has both.
The Mercedes does have both, which means I don't need it.
So in Europe, the reason that cars have the adjustable lights is so that if you think about it this way,
when you have a very discrete cutoff for those H4, the original Euro beam pattern,
a lot of stuff in the back, that cutoff now moves up as the car aims upward.
And you blind technical term, the shit out of everyone else.
So to fix that, you move them down.
Of course, I have mindset so that in normal driving, they're at the lowest setting so that I can raise them to blind people.
To be an irategically.
No, you do that too.
Is your hero cars with adjustable headlights?
No.
My wagon has that functionality and I use it.
Well, there are times when you're moving in high speed that you want to be able to see further away.
Yes.
And there are where you can raise them, which is fully against the law in Europe, but I don't.
U.S.
What?
Oh, raising them.
Raising them is a problem.
As having a adjustability period is illegal in the United States.
Is it?
Vertically?
Yeah, that's why that system was never used in U.S. cars.
No, no, no, no.
There is a car that has them.
I don't remember what it was, but it was there.
I think it was an infinity.
Maybe the original Q45 had Amy headlights that you can do that.
Now, they were required automatic aiming headlights were required when Xenon's first came out.
So you had to have a ride sensor front and rear and that they would move themselves down so it's to not blind everyone.
But clearly, that's no longer the case because every car on the road blinds everyone.
That's true.
This is why also the Citroen when you adjust the ride height of it,
it automatically does the back end comes up first so that you're not blinding people with your headlights.
Very French.
Yes.
I mean, the fact that they thought about it is remarkable.
And anything that there was, there was like a mechanical limitation of the system in some PR person.
It's like, I will take a pen and I will write the bush to explain the technical.
I don't think it matters which end goes up first from a technical perspective.
In any case, we are here to talk about considerably bulkier wagons.
Blue wagons.
Yes.
So I had an opportunity to drive RS6 Performance, which is the higher output version of the Audi RS6 Avant,
because the original was very lacking.
It was not lacking in performance, but now it has even more of that.
And against the M5 touring, the G99 M5 touring.
The G99, is that where we're up to?
Man, I can't keep up.
How much more performance does the RS6 have?
30.
God, you asked me these questions.
30 more horsepower, but it actually gets bigger turbos.
So it's not just like, it's not 30 horsepower.
It's probably like 300 horsepower.
Oh, 30 more, I'm sorry, than this.
Yes, I know.
It's not 300 more.
Well, yes, but it's more than 30 horsepower from turbo.
You can chip a car and change the engine management and get 30 horsepower.
Yeah, but they probably wanted just for top end or something.
I bet it has more than 30 horsepower more.
That's what I'm saying.
You're saying these joins?
That the Volkswagen group is cheating on something, Derek.
How silly of you.
What did they say in those ads?
Past performance is not a guarantee.
Future returns or something like that.
Uh-huh.
Okay.
And as we all know, I am not a huge fan dynamically of Audi's, historically,
but for the B7 RS4 and the original RS2, which was also a blue wagon.
In the form I drove it in.
And so this was really interesting.
This is part of a shoot that you guys will see eventually.
But I did drive the cars considerably back to back.
And we'll start out with the M5 because it's a new one.
I got in the car at the airport and in the laxative airport.
I don't know, X.
Good.
Yeah, I like Los Angeles.
And our producer live got in the car with me and we made it.
I'm totally normal driving like absolutely.
I just pulled out of the parking garage and drove down the street at 35 miles an hour.
And right at about, probably about the half a mile mark, quarter to half a mile mark.
I let out a, ugh, right.
As she said, fuck, I forgot my motion sickness pills.
And we looked at each other and both started laughing.
And I'm like, and I was like, what is wrong with this thing?
And she's like, well, I am so sick already.
It took literally a minute to make somebody in motion sick.
I'm going to say, this is not an auspicious beginning.
No, I'm going to say something that I don't think BMW is going to want to hear.
It is a fucking embarrassment to that company.
And I'm going to also say that he was not going to want to hear that.
No, but they're not.
But I have to qualify that and say the current M3 is fantastic dynamically.
Like it's, I don't want to use the term perfect, but it's perfect for what it is.
The compromises that M has selected are all, I think, exactly what the market wants.
The car feels cohesive.
It's put together.
It puts its power down.
The steering is fine.
The suspension is great.
It's all wonderful.
I know BMW in its modern era of bucktoothed things is capable of doing wonderful work.
I am mortified at how bad this car was.
Have you driven the sedan?
No, I've not.
So the defining characteristic of this car at 30 miles an hour is a lunge.
It's just constantly lunging, especially at the rear, but also at the front.
It was bouncing like a 70s Cadillac, but it twice the frequency.
So you get this up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down.
For no reason.
Like there's no bumps there.
And then it has to take it on your famous test section of 101.
No.
No.
And this isn't comfortable.
It's a startup mode, right?
So I drive cars mostly as they start out.
Like whatever mode they start out.
Right?
No, adjusting and fiddling.
And again, this was a commute.
I landed at the airport.
She and I got in the car and we went to go drive to the shoot location.
So this was just whatever.
The other thing I noticed was impacts like pavement seams that you can barely see.
And I've driven these roads in a million different cars a million times.
Are spine breaking?
It's inventing its own bumps.
And I got out and looked.
And this car had something R.
They were not purely trofeo R, but it was some other pearly R.
Something with stiff sidewalls.
But they're 40 series.
And they look like Raptor tires.
Yeah, because the wheels are so wide.
The cars are huge.
The sidewalls are huge.
Once you're up to speed, the bouncing stops.
Once you're at highway speeds, the bouncing stops.
But it's just impossibly non-compliant.
And you get this incredible amount of just harshness that comes through continually.
This reminds me of the C43 a little bit.
Has a weirdly firm ride and impact harshness.
And the other car that it reminds me of, which is more relevant, is the E63 wagon.
Which also has a lot of harshness for impact.
And the E63 wagon is one of the few modern cars that I'd like sort of lust for
and would be keen to own.
But I had one as a loner for a week, probably,
and used it in a normal way, driving around in the places I normally go.
And I was like, man, I don't know if I could actually live with this.
I conceptually am really enthusiastic about this car.
But it's so harsh on impact that I would struggle to use this as a daily.
That bad.
Yeah, I was like, it made me like, maybe I want to have instead of this E450 wagon.
I love Mercedes wagon.
200 diesel with 16 wheels.
Yeah, 16 and 9 wheels are steel wheels for extra compliance in the rim as it bends when you hit portals.
Yeah, but it was, it was gnarly enough that I was like, this might be a deal breaker.
You know, it's fine in a 911 and honestly, like a GT3 is pretty compliant now.
Yeah, I was going to say no.
Sorry, 911 I meant my 964 on coilovers.
Like a 90s definition of performance before they figured out how to do the thing
that both the 991 and the 458 modern Ferrari's do with the bumpy road mode where you're like,
how does the car with this kind of body control also have this kind of ride compliance?
I don't know why Mercedes can't put that in a big sedan or wagon,
especially one that is got bulk on its side,
which usually can help iron things out.
So let's point out, by the way, that this BMW is 5200 pounds.
54 pounds, 5400 pounds.
That's the same as my Cayenne turbo,
which was the heavy generation before they went steel,
because mine was a 950 7.
I don't know what the first one was.
It was the facelift of the first generation, but they had different 957.
Yes, because the first one was 955.
And then they lost like 600 pounds or something when they went aluminum,
when the 958 came out.
Anyway, mine was the heavy steel one, and it was 5540 on the scale.
How outrageous amount.
Yeah, so the M5 has the recipe to ride well with big side walls and whatever.
It was atrocious.
Beyond unlivable.
Then of course we're doing, I tested it and got sort of 16 numbers and whatever.
On a launch, it spins the rear tire,
and I initially thought this was a cheater tire that maybe BMW and I had put on the car,
and so the suspension wasn't tuned properly to work with this tire.
I don't know if this tire's available.
I didn't bother researching it, because the day after I read it,
a motor friend came out with a test, and their car had handcooks on it and did exactly the same thing.
So you get into launch control, which it's a torque converter automatic,
so it's just allowing you to build a little bit of boost and you let go of the brake.
The rear squats down, and then it has wheel spin, which it shouldn't.
There's no reason for this car to have any wheel spin at that power level with four-wheel drive.
But it spins the rear tires, and the rear does this weird thing where it compresses and releases and compresses and releases.
And it's almost like wheel hop, but it's not happening in phase with the wheel spin.
In fact, if you launch slightly softer and don't get any wheel spin, it still does this.
And I have a slow-mo video of it launching, and you can actually see the bumper flexing, the whole car is flexing from this.
I don't know what the hell happened, but this is so out of the realm of acceptability for any premium product,
much less $150,000, much less of BMW.
Now, of course, the regular BMW stuff is there.
That engine is the S63 V8. I wonder if the sedan does that.
I wonder if that's some kind of structural resonance associated with it being having a large aperture.
I bet it is.
I bet it is.
I think it's wagging.
Well, it's wagging. It's from the weight clearly.
I mean, this sort of lack of suspension of control on that back axle is probably the extra weight.
But I don't understand how they signed off on this.
I don't understand how any engineer led this car leave the building.
Unless a bean counter said you're done, pencils down, and the engineer was screaming.
And they said, tough, get it out.
But typically, first generation M products are imperfect.
So even back to an E90 M3 when it came out, it had some pretty bad steering.
It was overboosted. They fixed it a bit between prototype and production and then fixed it big time when they went to composition back cars.
But I've never seen an M car at this poorly tuned ever.
And then you get the rest of the sort of...
So I started with the engines.
V8, it's got that crossover exhaust manifold which makes it sound like a flat plane out the back.
So it sounds interesting.
Is it hot V?
It's hot V.
Yeah.
Hot V twin turbo with a big hybrid system with a plug-in hybrid with a big battery.
And it's fast. It's unexpectedly fast.
It's faster than...
Yeah, for something that weighs as much as...
It really is top end.
Top end on that motor.
Because if zero to 60 is where I expected it to be, I can look up what I got.
I think it would.
What's the general realm?
Three.
Three.
Did I know if I got a 30 out of it?
I'll look in my notes while I was awk.
But the engine is nice.
That's all fine.
There we go.
M5.
I got a 3.11 to 60.
And actually on this curve you can see the oscillations in acceleration.
Yes.
As it's hooking up and then unentractioning.
Unentractioning.
Kortama was 111 at 127.
And that's...
The Audi, for example, was 112 at 122.
So quite a bit slower trap speed with a zero to 60 of 3L.
So the Audi...
So the Audi is better able to put its power down and not do weird oscillations.
And it does a big...
Again, you'll see the chart there.
You can see a very big nudge on the shift.
So it got a nice lunch and then just slam shifts one to two.
And that'll gain you some stuff.
The BMW's shifts were much less obvious on the trace.
So it's got this crazy top end.
It's definitely underrated and it's way faster than I think.
It's just the hybrid system doing hybridization the entire time.
And in the Audi there is none.
There is none.
So the Audi 600 pound slider.
Because I think the Audi was 400.
Yeah, if I remember correctly, the Audi was...
Hold on, I can...
I looked...
If I had...
If I was good at my job, I would have had this all lined up ready for you.
The Audi was 48, 28.
Something...
Amazing.
That's something 4,800 pounds can be 600 pounds lighter than something else.
Oh, and the BMW was lighter than I expected.
5245.
So it's not 5400.
Not 5400.
Not 5400.
It was 5200.
In my defense, I weighed 17 cars last week.
I tested 17 cars.
I think I weighed 11 of them.
It was a busy week.
But yeah, it was...
In this car, you're now subject to the latest version of iDrive,
which shows paragraphs of text on the screen
rather than icons for everything.
So you go to the main home panel,
and it's basically like an Android phone, which has 75 icons
with little text below each one of them.
And you try to do that where you're driving.
You are crashing.
And then there's like a little weather widget on the main screen.
And instead of just having a sun with a little cloud partially obscuring it
and 76 degrees, it will write it out in text.
Today's high will be 76 degrees and whatever.
I mean, it clearly is thank you for that reaction,
because clearly I've rolled my eyes for those of you who are listening.
And even traffic conditions,
rather than showing me a fucking map,
it will write it out.
Smooth sailing, or whatever it says it doesn't say.
It's smooth sailing ahead.
But like, you know, traffic is as normal with a slowdown,
6.7 miles, what the fuck are you doing?
Give me a map with colors.
I mean, you can have that too, obviously.
But you know, they have all these widgets that are just trying to be smarter.
The most offensive thing, and I did not take a picture of this,
is you have a band that's about an inch and a half wide
that goes across a tall.
A tall.
Sorry.
One and a half inches tall and that goes across the center console.
I mean, actually, it becomes part of the interior ambient lighting.
And it is in the M colors.
So blue to purple to, like whatever the colors are red.
It's so bright at night.
I mean, I did, I managed to find a widget to turn it all down.
But I just, the interior is so fucking cheap.
And I don't mean inexpensive.
I mean, gaudy.
Yes.
Everything is tasteless.
And then the backseat, we all got in and said,
Anthony Esposito is there, obviously.
For filming, he has a golf.
I have a golf.
Live has a golf wagon.
And we're all like, this is smaller than a golf.
And you get out of that backseat and you get into the Audi
and you're like, wow, is this two sizes larger?
Okay.
So then we get the comparisons.
Is this the hybrid system that's doing this?
No.
Well, the battery's clearly onto the trunk floor
because the trunk floor is way higher than the Audi's is.
The backseat has plenty of room.
Like in the Audi.
In the Audi.
The Audi has choose this new two screen setup,
which is just annoying.
Like there's too many screens.
But it all looked well done, well integrated.
The hood of the Audi is like six, seven inches lower
than the hood of the BMW.
And the other thing on the BMW that I didn't notice
and I do have pictures of this.
When you see this car in the light in person,
is that the grill is horrible to look at.
And there's no other way.
It's horrible.
And of course, it's outlined in a light strip,
just to drive home that you are ugly.
Of how ugly the front end of your buck tooth
and the BMW is, they're never giving me another car after this.
So I was like, you don't want another car after this.
But not one of these.
But then, not only that, then there's a plastic,
high gloss, plastic, L-shaped element in each nostril
to partially conceal the radar.
That you don't see in pictures,
because it's all just one big black element.
But the blacks don't match.
And then there are just weird intakes, whatever.
The car is...
Then there is, I'll stop myself.
There is the spoiler that's out like an under bite.
The whole sort of lower spoiler.
That has a horizontal and vertically inclined radiators in it
with absolutely nothing blocking them.
So every stone is going to damage these radiators.
There's no grill, there's no mesh, there's no nothing.
They're painted black so that when the stones hit them,
then you can see silver stone trips.
Nope, but they're just open to the elements.
And the car looks...
It looks like it's missing a piece from though.
It looks like the grill fell out.
It's horrendous to look at.
The Audi is beautiful.
Yeah, the Audi is very handsome.
Beautiful.
Inside, out, it's got a backseat.
It rides 50 times better than the BMW.
It is quicker to 60 miles an hour.
Okay, a couple of times slower.
For the quarter mile, I don't care.
Or a 10th floor.
Yes, you're going 122 instead of 127.
Both are rapid.
Both are rapid.
Yes.
You're not going to want for more speed in an Audi.
And if you do, you just call 0-7.
0-4 motorsport and get a tune for it.
And it probably makes 4-7.
0-7 would be considerably more expensive.
The launch...
The launch...
The humologation...
The humologation would be...
The humologation would be...
Aftermarket support network.
Yeah, go chip it.
And you can, I'm sure, get 5 billion horsepower, I think.
I've heard people sort of widely pan the Audi for being dull.
It is.
Yeah.
But you know what's nice about dull?
It's just good.
It's not an M5.
I mean...
The M5 is undull and all the wrong way.
I don't know what's happening.
Would you rather have something dull or bad?
I would rather have something bad, typically.
Like, I don't like...
Oh god, so we have an M5 wagon for you.
I don't know.
That's bad, right?
I mean, like, bad...
It depends on what it's bad at.
Yes.
That's right.
You know, that is a heavy, space inefficient, ugly, gaudy...
A terrible riding.
A terrible riding.
Clearly not fully developed.
How are the powertrain and brakes?
Let's try and find something that you can commend it for.
So then I took it around...
I took both cars around the track.
This is...
We didn't do a track episode with these.
But I did both...
I did two laps in each of them back to back.
It isn't...
It isn't beyond the view.
Like, I will give them that.
The rear wheel steering...
The car relies a little bit too heavily on the rear wheel steering
to get to neutral balance in corners.
And so we were at Big Willow.
Big Willow turned two is this big, long, 180-degree uphill,
slightly banked right-hand turn.
That is somewhere in the mid-90 mile-an-hour range in these cars.
And the BMW is beautifully neutral through there.
But what it's doing is after...
After it takes a set.
So it turns in nicely and then falls into understeer
and then a mile understeer, which is exactly what you kind of expect and want.
And then...
About a half second later, two-thirds of a second later,
then all of a sudden you have to unwind the steering a little bit
because the back is yawning out and you're thinking,
oh dear, I'm now in the car wheel drift.
No, you're not.
You're not.
This is the test of the Reese's broadcast system.
If you're currently eating Reese's, this is just a test.
Continue living the dream.
If you aren't, oh boy.
Drop what you're doing, go.
Get Reese's.
Now, do not stay calm.
Push people out of the way.
Wheels are understeering.
They have lost grip and they're very sliding, very, very gently.
And the rears are just towed to the left.
So you feel like you're in this endless drift,
but the backs are actually not at their limit of adhesion.
Very unsettling.
When four wheel steering is done or rear wheel steering is done properly,
you don't notice it.
When it's done improperly, like in this case,
it's obvious and it's disconcerting.
But the linearity of controls is beautiful in the car.
The composure around the racetrack suspension composure is quite good.
Bombs didn't really upset it much.
Front end stuck nicely.
Everything felt great.
You're like, oh, well, motorsport did something,
but the trade-off in normal driving is just unacceptable.
Which is not traditionally a motorsport characteristic.
I mean, if you look back at the original first three generations of the M5
and the M3s of those, the 80s and 90s,
they are really pleasant, useful cars in regular use.
I drive piles of shit under daily basis
and I could never put up with that ride on that car.
I mean, to make someone motion sickness,
motion sick in a minute or two at 30 miles an hour on a straightaway road
is not a good sign for any car, much less than that.
Interestingly, though, when I got on the Audi on track,
Audi revealed itself as an Audi.
It was less willing to play and dance.
Actually, it was quite good in terms of speed.
The only criticism I can give to the BMWs,
you can only get into M dynamic mode,
which is the reduced stability control intervention,
in four-wheel drive sport mode,
which prioritizes rear wheel power first.
Every time you go for the gas,
it'll sort of huck the car sideways a little bit
and then transfer power forward.
And it did it to me even on relatively gradual throttle applications.
I just felt like I had to manage the rear.
The Audi is front-wheel drive first.
And so it's just locked in four-wheel drive clearly at the moment.
So it's just stable.
And I could just slam the gas coming out of a corner.
And it would just launch.
But you get the steering wheel 20 degrees or so off-center
and the ratio changes violently.
I mean, it's like, I'm turning, turning, turning.
Boom!
We're turning into the A-packs, even if you're going to miss it on the inside.
And then the brakes engage quickly.
They're probably a Bosch Ebooster.
But they come on immediately and feel great.
But they don't relax.
Yeah, there's no linearity to the pedal where you sort of come off
and there's a delay in there.
All of the controls are just not linear.
It's a non-linear and they're not tuned to work together.
But the car did great around the track.
Again, not hot laps.
They were quick laps and I wasn't timing them.
But I just thought we were in a really weird world where Audi is
rides better than the BMW, which is often not the case for like RS products
or AS products.
You know, they often ride like shit.
They're very, very harsh and the payoff isn't there.
Where the M cars ride harshly, but there's a huge payoff.
They're man.
Did you have any of the other competitors from the segment present?
So we were doing...
Well, there really are no other competitors.
Because the Panamera for Treesmo is dead.
That was it.
But by chance, we had a Panamera.
Is the E63 wagon also dead?
The E63 is coming.
Mercedes just confirmed an E53 wagon that's coming.
The 6-owner.
Right.
This is a 6-owner with a 48-volt hybrid.
I would argue it was the wrong engine for an AMG, but it is fine.
It's a nice straight-six.
At least there's a hot wagon coming.
Yes.
So we will have three hot wagons.
The Panamera was amazing.
So this is the Panamera Turbo S ehybrid.
That's the top of the line.
And it's basically a Turbo S with a plug-in hybrid system.
It's exactly the same powertrain as the Bentley Clonti GT
in the Bentley Flying Spur, which we raved about
because in a previous drag race episode, because it's fabulous.
The car looks great, feels expensive as fast.
Excuse me, fast.
It's not.
The Panamera, because it has that 48-volt system with a big battery,
has a fully active suspension.
And I don't mean like, oh, it can adapt the shocks,
or it can change ride height with air springs.
It has both of those abilities.
But it can, in fractions of a second, raise and lower the car
at each corner individually.
Well, it says like the Bose system that was from the 90s.
That was electromagnetic, if I remember correctly.
Or electric somehow.
That makes sense.
I assume those were 12 volt cars.
Yeah.
I think they had to put huge extra batteries and stuff in them.
This uses, interestingly enough, four pumps.
One at each corner, might be two pumps per corner.
That can fill or relieve pressure in real time
in each chamber of the shock itself.
And so one of the party tricks this thing does,
and again, stupidly didn't take a video of it.
When you open the door, it goes, and it lifts itself up
by three inches.
It is so disorienting that we all turn it off.
Every one of us hated it.
But it's pretty wild to perfectly silently.
There's no air because the fluid cells are like,
oh, this car's low.
It's hard to get in and out of.
So the car just raises it.
It's never seen anything like this because it's instant.
And again, silent.
Normally you'll hear air whooshing for an air strike.
Yeah, like the axle lift on it.
And so how it's doing is using the motors
to just build pressure on the lower side of the shock
and raise it right up.
It does have air springs and it uses that to set static ride height
based on load and the car.
I will go so far as to say this is the most impressive suspension
I've ever felt ever.
It is Rolls-Royce ride quality.
It's nuts.
So there's one between the track at Will's Springs
and the Airbnb that we in the crew stayed out.
There's same roads that we drive back and forth and back and forth.
And there's one spot where somebody did a pavement patch
while they were drunk and stoned and dead.
And so it's like it's probably a good two-inch dip
over 10 feet of asphalt.
And so for example, the Audi hit it and it was a bit hit
the bump stops at 80 miles an hour.
Next to go.
It's at 55 miles an hour.
Highway speeds.
The Audi would hit it and you get a bloop.
And you get a firm landing.
A firm landing.
But you hit the bump stops but it's progressive
and you get a vertical motion and then it settles
and it's done.
The BMW's backseat passengers left their chairs.
And then complained slow down.
It was bad.
It was up, down, bounce, bounce, bounce.
And everyone wanted to throw up.
It didn't exist in the Porsche.
You felt maybe a little bit of a...
It looks like it feels like a shoulder check or something
or just a shoulder shimmy.
Nothing.
You heard the bloop of the tires but the bump didn't exist.
And then it can completely...
It doesn't have roll bars and it doesn't need it
because it completely does count.
Oh, interesting.
There used to be this...
There was a phase for a while where there were
hydraulically actuated roll bars, right also.
Which are typically mostly there so you can decouple them
so you can basically not have roll bars or have roll bars.
This can just say, well, if we're leaning this way,
I'm just gonna pick the side up of the car and drop that side of the car.
And it's almost completely level during...
Like a slalom is wild because you're doing the slalom
and you feel a little bit of weight transfer but there's no...
It's mostly you, not the cars of you.
It's your test.
And so how long has this been extent in Porsche products?
It's new.
Brand new.
Apparently, I was the first person to test
to do this rinse and testing on that car.
It did a 10-5 through the quarter mile
making it the fastest accelerating four-door car in history.
Which is pretty wild.
In history.
More so than even the sapphire.
I'm sorry.
Ice.
Yeah, we sort of separate out.
Nothing will be as...
No...
That's what I was...
Well, my eyebrows were so comprehensively raised.
Sapphire and plaid are...
It's so sad that this is not available in the wagon.
Panamera.
Yeah.
Because they never existed simultaneously.
It is...
The car is magic.
So the craziest thing about this is it genuinely rides like...
It's not full Rolls Royce but close.
No hofting.
No mounting, whatever.
To perfect control.
Perfect composure.
Perfect roll control.
Perfect weight management.
And then you get it on the track.
And civil presumably also.
Not just civil but it feels like it weighs 2,500 or 3,000 pounds less than the BMW and the Audi did.
And just perfect linear controls.
Beautiful connection.
It felt like sports car.
Which is pretty wild.
And great.
The minor industry at the limit.
And all the drive system that will let you get sideways.
I never turned it in...
I never turned the BMW into rear-drive motor.
I did any really stupid holdings.
But the car just feels beautifully natural.
You're never managing the rear end as you are.
The rear end as you are in the BMW.
It's 100% Porsche.
And all I kept thinking is why does the Bentley not have this system on it?
Because the Bentley rode beautifully.
The Bentley also philosophically.
It needs to get that.
On a bumpy twisty road at speed.
The system can consume up to 40 horsepower.
Just worth of electricity.
So I think it's probably a conversion from 25 kilowatts.
But think about that.
A 37 or 40 horsepower.
Just to actively actuate the suspension.
So that's something that can only exist with the hybrid.
That has a big battery.
And this is why...
This is the beauty of hybridization.
This is the reason why the Bose system couldn't go into production.
And the original L is 400.
They could never sell that system.
Because the electrical demands were far too great.
And now with a 48 volt.
So Will it jump over an obstacle in the road?
The way that the Bose system does?
I'm sure it could.
I don't know if it actually would have enough power.
I mean, I don't know if it's at full.
You've seen the Bose demo.
Where they do that.
I bet it jumped a two by four, right?
Yeah.
I bet they could.
If they can get the car down low,
spring it up and then pull the wheels really quickly,
I bet it could jump over something.
Well, Porsche, you know what to do.
Porsche, man.
That thing was unbelievable.
Cool.
Yeah.
I mean, having at the same passengers in every car, you know,
of shuttling back and forth between the house and the track.
And Randy Pope's mind was blown.
We were, we had Randy Anthony and then a friend of ours
who's a vehicle test engineer in the car.
And he was like, like, you could just see the calculations
happening in his eyes.
Like, how the fuck does this have this body level of control?
And then cyclists.
Exactly the opposite of the BMW,
which was, you know, no suppleness whatsoever,
and then no, no payoff in control.
So it's very interesting to see the system in other vehicles
if they will do it.
It would be very cool.
I'm sure it's not cheap, but man, it's worth it.
Yeah, but I mean, you could put it in a 911, for example.
Yeah.
I mean, the Panamera has its other problems.
Number one looks like a suppository still.
Like it just doesn't, it's not pretty.
And the wagon was the only one that ever fixed that.
Yeah, I agree.
And the other issue is this car was $235 or $240,000.
And the interior, so we had a Kia Carnival rent a van
that was there.
And I hate to say it, but that interior was 100% swathed
in black high gloss plastic, piano black plastic.
And so was the Kia's.
And there was barely a, I'm exaggerating.
But it was far closer in look and feel to the Kia than it was, too.
Yeah, friend of mine recently bought a new Kia.
And it's like a high trim, but not the highest trim.
And there's some plastic in there where you're like,
wow, I cannot believe that they sell this in a,
whatever this thing costs, $120,000 or whatever vehicle.
Like it's really outrageous.
It's bad.
It's like much worse than a late 90s Audi or Volkswagen.
I mean, late 90s Audi's were good.
Yes, that's what I'm saying.
But like, you know, those cars are $1,800 on.
Again, benchmark that I use.
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
There is no plastic anywhere in a Mark 7 Golf interior
that was, that would approach the shittiness that was all over that.
To a quarter of a million dollar Porsche.
Which had all of the money in the suspension and drivetrain.
Yes.
And if you had to choose, you know, where to spend that money,
where would you rather it be spent?
So we also had an S-Class.
We had an S63 AMG there.
That interior is a little gaudy.
Yeah, it's good.
I think it's more than a little gaudy, but you haven't seen that in five.
Really?
Oh, I think so.
Next to the M5, it looked perfectly restrained.
Really?
Because I think of those as being the 222 and 223,
I think of those interiors as a little bit Chinese-Bordello.
Yeah.
Chinese-Bangist-Bordello.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's how it had striped.
So like a waterfall effect of layered wood with pinstripes in it.
That was spectacular.
I do love that stuff.
I think that's really gorgeous.
Yeah.
That interior was like, you get out of the Panamera.
And you're like, this genuinely key of levels of black plastic.
And nothing gets key up, but we're talking a big difference in price point.
And you get into that from the Panamera into the S-Class.
And it's like, this should be, if that's a quarter million dollars,
this should be three million dollars.
Like there's that big of a difference.
And the Mercedes was far cheaper.
Sorry.
Far less outrageous expensive.
And that's the S63, which is also a plug-in hybrid, which uses the...
And is it still with a four-liter turbo V8?
Yeah.
So with the hot V turbo V8, plus the C63s, it's a 60C63 powertrain.
But instead of this ridiculous four-cylinder, they sub back in the V8.
But it still has different power at each axle.
What an axle is gasoline and the other axle is hybrid?
No, no, no, no.
That system is really fucking weird because it is a rear drive car predominantly
with a power takeoff that goes back to the front.
So it's all wheel drive.
And then there's a rear...
There's a motor in the rear that has its own two-speed transmission.
So does this have that?
That interacts together and can send electric power back through the drive shaft
up to the front wheels.
So it can be four-wheel drive in EV mode or whatever.
It shifts at, I think it was 78 miles an hour from first to second in the rear axle
and every one of the 70, 3000 times I ran that thing down the track at Full Throttle.
I thought the engine blew because the D-cell actually drops to less...
The acceleration drops to zero.
It's not like if you go from like three quarters of G in acceleration,
which is what these monsters will pull.
You lose 50% of your acceleration.
You're gonna look around like what just happened to lose all of it was...
I found it quite disorienting in the C63.
I feel like it was worse in this car for some reason.
The C63 felt like it was tripping because it was a...
Like a momentary loss, but it was very brief.
Yeah, this felt longer and more severe.
It was truly unsettling.
And from a car that's otherwise just so well turned out,
that as class is pretty magic.
I shall find...
I'm glad they continue to make those things.
I don't know for whom, but with the S-Class...
Not my problem.
For people who have a lot of passengers?
I don't know.
A lot of large passengers who need very, very long legs.
Anyone who's...
Yeah, so you can actually look at the trace.
Am I crazy here?
Is this 0 to 60 on the Mercedes?
I don't have it.
I don't have the trace.
You can't actually see it.
It was... I'm sorry.
It drops to half a G.
So it loses about...
There was another car that dropped...
Wow, it still does three seconds.
So the 0 to 60 was 2.80.
Oh, on the S-63.
2.8.
So it's faster than the M5 and the Audi M...
Oh, up to 60.
Quicker, sorry.
And then...
I'm appreciably...
I'm going to show you its quarter mile time.
No.
Stop it.
Don't say it.
Wait, wait, wait.
Can you show me that again?
I don't believe my eyes.
I wrote in handwriting, AMG,
and that's where quarter mile time.
Wow.
So maybe there's an episode coming
of Camisa's Ultimate Drag Race Replay,
which you'll see that.
But make no mistake when Mercedes
means it.
Holy shit.
Wow.
And an S-class, no less.
What a great time to be alive.
Is it...
No.
With an M5 wagon.
No, no, no, no.
We finally get a fucking M5 wagon.
I'm going...
The...
What is it?
The third ever?
Yeah, but the first to come to the US, right?
Yes.
Yeah.
I'm so disappointed.
I'm so disappointed because as we know,
I'm a wagon fan,
and I'm a car fan,
and right now,
the M3 is killing it.
It's so good.
I mean, it's eaked out of slight loss
against the Tesla Model 3 performance
on that comparison test that I did.
If you all remember,
everyone hates me over it.
But the car's spectacular.
It's really...
You know, other than the infotainment,
it's a really nice car.
And this M5 is a disaster.
Yeah.
Well...
Everyone relentlessly defecates on that car anyway
for various other reasons.
It's nice to know that the substance matches
the first impressions also.
And let's say...
Let's say something.
The car did gain 1,300 pounds
over the previous generation M5.
Which is...
Which is disgusting.
Let's be honest.
I mean, nothing that should never happen.
But let me pull up the weight
for the Porsche.
Because...
Right.
So we were, if you said,
52.50 is for the...
And 48 something for the Audi,
52.50 for the BMW.
52.45.
And the Panamera was 52.62.
Let's have a beer.
It is...
The Panamera is heavier.
And it's not a wagon.
You know, a wagon's always at,
and a hundred and fifty-two hundred pounds.
You know what I mean?
Holy moly.
Panamera is heavy.
All of these German cars...
But nobody is shooting on the Panamera
for being so heavy.
And by the way...
And what are the previous generation way?
Sorry.
This is a piece of information
that I couldn't possibly expect you to have at the ready.
Do you know what the S-class weighs?
56.88.
Well, so that's...
Wow, more than the M5 by...
You know, we exactly to the pound.
400 pounds less than that.
So, so heavier than both the Porsche and the BMW.
But 400 pounds less than the S-class.
Then the S-class.
Vanshina.
Really?
Fully laden,
as driven down with all of the three-quarters of our equipment
and the camera gear on it.
Think about that.
A mini van with admittedly zero crash,
protection or a structure.
And not a hybrid.
And considerably worse limit handling.
Um...
Yes.
I mean...
More funner?
Uh-huh.
More...
This sort of happier.
More Chrysler shit.
Um...
But gonna paint a stare.
That's right.
Yeah.
Okay.
Interesting.
That was informative.
I can't believe the S-class was so good and so heavy
for the Porsche.
I mean the S-class had its problems,
you know, suspension clonks.
The...
I'm sorry, transmission clonks.
Like driving around flat out
other than the one-two shift on the rear axle
for the electric motor,
the car is dynamically brilliant.
You do all this terrible shit to it.
It never overheats.
It doesn't care what you do.
It's a Mercedes.
And you drive across the parking lot.
It's boom!
Like the transmission fall out of the car simultaneously.
And then...
Is that from impact?
I know they just...
Everyone's in a while clonks so bad.
It's like the computer is like...
We must make sure that everyone knows there are
two of you fighting each other.
Let's go.
I don't know what happens,
but like you get these horrendous
drive-line clonks.
That's not very Mercedes-like.
Yes it is.
Have you driven your own C43 AMG?
How about that two-one downshift?
Two-one.
Yeah.
I mean an automatic going down to first gear
is always an unpleasant experience.
Non-moner and stuff.
It's not.
No, those...
That five-speed Mercedes box does the most...
I don't even know.
And the four speeds are bad too.
They're all bad.
Like the 500E.
But go 13 miles an hour in that car in your C43,
which I'm pointing outside because it's literally outside.
And floor it.
At like 13 miles an hour,
it'll do a two-one down to like 4,000 RPM and launch.
And it genuinely...
When I got my C43,
the first time it happened,
I genuinely thought it broke.
Like, oh shit, I broke this thing.
And then I was going through my notes
a couple months later.
And I'd written...
Driven a whole bunch of those five and six-speed cars
when they were new.
And they did the exactly the same thing.
And in my notes,
I was like, don't ever floor it.
Don't make it go down to the first.
You're going to regret it.
I mean, they apparently don't break.
But Jesus Christ.
So it is a Mercedes.
Harsh shifts are always a Mercedes.
Yeah.
But goddamn suspension tuning
should not be fucked up on an M-car.
And so disappointed.
I was so excited about that car.
Yeah, because the M3 sets such high expectations
and we finally get an M5 wagon.
So...
Unbiable.
Unbiable.
They're going to have to go.
That's the verdict.
Go back.
My message to BMW is go back and fix this.
This is...
This is not a characteristic.
This is like, oh well,
I don't particularly think the ride is appropriate.
No, no, no.
The car's broken.
And it wasn't until that I saw a motor friend's simultaneous post.
But they had a car right when...
What did they...
What was their commentary?
The back end never stops heaving.
And the suspension tuning is awful.
And the wheel spins a problem.
And they thought the wheel spin was because they had
non-aggressive handcooks, some things.
We had super-aggressive...
Pirelli.
What's Pirelli's mainline non-corsa?
Whatever it was.
P0Rs is what they were.
Never even heard of these tires.
And they came to us well-worn.
Like, somebody had already driven on these tires.
So it's not like they put cheater tires on it for a loan or something.
I don't think they would do that.
But either way, wow.
What a...
Well, people will buy it.
I can hear by proclaim the best wagon in the world.
Is the Audi R6 performance.
Unexpected words from someone who typically doesn't appreciate
Audi's lack of chassis tuning.
Yeah.
It's 100% the car would have all of the two.
Of those two.
Yes.
Well, one has to be the good one and one has to not be the good one.
But if you're...
I mean, yeah.
If you want to wagon, what's your other choice?
So there's an M3 wagon available in other markets.
And the Mercedes products.
You could eventually try the E53.
Well, it was not out yet.
Yes.
So once that comes, that maybe, you know,
that may be the hot ticket, but no V8.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
I guess I'm going to stick with my E30 wagon.
You were going to do that regardless.
You know, 23 years in at this point.
Yes.
That's right.
Yeah.
Okay.
Not personally relevant.
Not personally relevant.
Maybe relevant to some of our listeners.
Yes.
That's an M5 Y.
Wait for the comp.
They will fix it.
The only way he always does.
Interesting.
Yeah.
One hopes.
Wow.
Or put the aftermarket shocks on it for all.
I mean, there are...
I'm sure are ways to fix that.
But how that car leaves the factory.
I would want to put 12-inch wheels with 90 serious sidewalls
and conies on it.
Maybe that'll solve that.
And then unplug those fucking M lights.
You can turn them off in the screen.
The M colors and the dashboard.
You're all that I hate when brands that are great become less great.
Yes.
Welcome to...
The car margin show.
Chris Harris just made a...
This is really interesting.
Yes.
Exactly.
We are curmed genie today.
I especially.
Chris made a post on Instagram the other day that I saw that.
I was really happy to see.
He just was a picture of GTI.
And he's like, everyone owes it themselves to the...
Drive a Mark VII GTI right now.
Name another industry where for whatever reason...
I'm paraphrasing, obviously.
Yes.
Whatever reason.
Things were better 10 years ago.
I mean, he's totally right.
Yeah.
So nice to see.
And this is another example.
Okay.
You're 50...
50 billion pound M5.
Rides like...
I would say a Lotus Elise, but the Elise Rides better.
It doesn't bounce.
Right.
Okay.
Well, don't buy an M5 wagon.
What you had planned this afternoon, you should cancel and re-plan your afternoon...
By an Audi.
Yes.
By the R6.
Performance.
Better steering than the BMW.
Better steering than the BMW.
What is going on?
BMW is falling.
I don't think Audi's probably changed much of anything if I had to guess.
No, that performance is really good.
Yeah, it's unexpectedly cohesive for an Audi.
I think that is a step up.
I haven't spent almost no time in the regular R6.
But all of this sort of commentary about it being too soft and being too boring and having
dead steering.
No, steering was quite good.
Everything was quite good.
So congratulations to you.
Wow.
All right.
Time to be alive.
All right.
Thank you for joining us on this week's episode of the Carmage and Show.
We'll...
You never see you, but we'll return next week.
We will be back next week.
Complaining about more things.
Mostly.
That's our brand.
Okay.
Thank you.
Bye.
About this episode
A deep dive into the BMW M5 Touring and Audi RS6 Performance reveals a stark contrast in performance and ride quality. Jason Cammisa and Derek Tam-Scott discuss their experiences with both vehicles, highlighting the M5's harsh ride and unsettling dynamics compared to the more composed and quicker RS6. They also touch on the Porsche Panamera and Mercedes AMG S63, noting the impressive suspension technology in the Panamera. The episode critiques BMW's recent design choices and performance tuning, leaving listeners with a clear preference for the Audi.
adjustable headlights
aluminum construction
bumpy road mode
chip a car
Citroën
first generation M products
garage creeper
horsepower
hot V
load leveling
Audi RS2
Audi RS4
Audi RS6 Avant
Bentley Flying Spur
BMW 3 Series
BMW 6 Series
BMW M3
BMW M5
Dodge Viper
Ferrari 458
Fiat 500e
Ford F-150
Infiniti Q45
Lotus Elise
Mercedes-Benz S-Class
Porsche 911
Porsche Cayenne
Porsche Cayman
Porsche Macan
Porsche Panamera
Tesla Model 3
Tesla Model Y
Volkswagen Golf
Original notes
We review the new Audi RS6 Avant Performance, G99 BMW M5 Touring, Mercedes-AMG S63 E Performance and Porsche Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid. One looks spectacular, one has the most impressive suspension of all time, and one is unbuyable.
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This episode is sponsored by Vyper Industrial — America’s #1 rated shop chair, tool carts, and creepers, proudly made here in the US. Visit vyperindustrial.com and use code CARMUDGEON for $50 off.
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Welcome to the performance wagon episode! We’ve got Jason’s blue E30 325i Touring in the garage as we discuss a pair of long-roof autobahn bruisers: the G99 BMW M5 Touring and C8 Audi RS6 Avant Performance. With the cancellation of Porsche’s Panamera Sport Turismo, we turn to Porsche’s top-spec suppository in its stead: the Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid. And, similarly, with the E63 wagon gone, we’ll review the Mercedes-AMG S63 E Performance to tide us over until the new E53 wagon arrives.
Starting with the brand new BMW M5 Touring: a letdown as serious as its curb weight. A twin-turbo hot-vee V-8 alongside some EV juice dolls out 717 hp, but long before you’re able to stretch its legs the suspension will have you nauseous. It heaves and lunges over road imperfections, and the rear-wheel steering makes it feel like you're perpetually entering the D dimension. Even with new, chunky-sidewalled Pirelli P Zero R tires, the ride is harsh, and the suspension is blatantly unfinished. Do a hard launch and prepare for simultaneous – and yet somehow also out-of-phase – wheelspin and violent pogoing. Things aren’t much better styling-wise – the front-end treatment is positively hideous, and there’s comparatively little backseat and cargo room next to the Audi. Overall, a huge let down, and a far cry from the delightful G80 M3 (buck teeth aside). Sadly, it will be a long, long while before we can import the G80 M3 Touring. However, it’s worth noting that early M products have had teething issues before (including the beloved E90 M3). Jason suggests waiting for the arrival of the Competition Pack, but you’ll still be stuck with a gaudy interior and byzantine infotainment system.
The Audi RS6 Performance on the other hand is an absolute delight and unexpectedly fabulous. Without the bulk of hybrid batteries, the Audi weighs in at 400 lbs lighter than the Bimmer. It’s all-around gorgeous – inside and out – and has loads of room for both passengers and cargo. Its steering is genuinely superior to the BMW’s and Jason dubs it the “best wagon in the world.”
As for the Porsche Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid – it’s Bose’s 1990s dream realized. Jason heralds it as the most impressive suspension he’s ever felt – ever. Like if a Rolls-Royce could turn. It comes equipped with the same potent powertrain found in the Bentley Continental GT Speed and Flying Spur, which is so powerful it earned the Porsche the label of quickest 4-door ICE car ever (the 4-door electric monsters still have it beat – the Lucid Air Sapphire and Tesla Model S Plaid both run in the 9s).
And lastly, we have Mercedes-AMG S63 E Performance – a charmer. The interior is slightly gaudy but otherwise splendid. Our particular car’s cabin was a huge improvement over the Macanese bordellos of previous W223s and W222s. The convoluted and clunky drivetrain was an occasional annoyance (and has origins as far back as the first C43 and E63 wagon), but the Benz was mostly a delight to operate despite weighing more than a fully laden minivan – and 3000 lbs more than Jason’s E30. The boys wonder why Mercedes has refused to implement the types of suspensions Porsche and Ferrari figured out for their sports cars years ago that allow for ultra-smooth cruising without sacrificing handling. In any case, the S63’s ¼-mile time leaves Derek’s jaw on the floor.
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The Carmudgeon Show
Hagerty Media
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