Bridging Gaps Between Technicians and Owners for Better Communication with Andrew Fischer, Part 2

My boys are old enough now. We've had those conversations of what happened, you know? I want them to know, like, it's okay. You're gonna screw up, right? Just don't. Don't do the same things I did. Be better.

Sometimes life's biggest lessons are learned through life's biggest mistakes. That's Andrew Fisher on this week's episode of the Jada Mechanic podcast, part two, picking up right where we left off of Jeff and Andrew's conversation last week. Part two starts right now. Yeah, and that's. You know, it sucks because I keep saying there's all. There's always lessons. We take lessons from everybody, right? But sometimes it's like when the other person. When the neighbors screwing up, we don't take that as the lesson.

We don't even pay any attention. But when it's happening right in our own closed circle. Um. Yeah, my dad made some failures as a husband and a father that, like, were really tough to stomach. And, um. And it taught me. And I used to never gonna be like him. I was so much like him, it wasn't even funny.

Yeah, it is, right? The apple and the tree. Now, it was through understanding his background that helped me understand why he probably was the way he was. And then it shows me, before I go to the same places, understand where it's coming from, what's driving me to do it, and then that is the lesson. The lesson is. And I used to think the lesson is just watch what that person does and don't do it. That's not the lesson. The lesson to understand is what's making that person do that. Okay? When you see that happening to you, pull back or go forward or make a ladder move, do something.

Reach out to somebody, because that's all it takes, you know, is. And you're gonna screw up. We all are. We are gonna make mistakes. That is part of growth. It is part of life. You know, there is no. It's only ever been one perfect man.

And you know, what they did to him.

Absolutely.

You know, it's. I. I wear my shit like a badge. You know, it's. It's. It doesn't define me, but it's certainly. You know, I. It's right on the tip of my brain all the time where I failed.

And, um. Yeah, I think you have to do that. You. There's a way you can do it without punishing yourself. But I think it's the most truth when you bring it to yourself, is you then put that truth on others, and it's without getting deep, like, it's, that's, that's the lesson there. That is the lesson. You know, it's.

It's a, there's a Montgomery gentry song, tattoos and scars, and I wear my tattoos and my scars the same way. I'll show them to you. Right. And if you want to have a conversation, I'm always up for it. If you feel like you just need somebody to talk to, I tell everybody, like, hey, man, if you're having a bad day, like, shit's getting you down, call me, because I'd rather. I'd rather you call me at two in the morning, let's have a conversation than never getting that phone call again, you know? So, yeah, it's just, it's just growth, right. And it's sad that it takes us so long. I mean, I'm.

I'm pushing 40. I'm gonna be 39 this, this coming January, and it took me almost 40 years to realize this. You know, I wish these were the things we learned early.

Yeah.

Obviously the growth is the fun part, right. But it's the stuff, you know, it probably wouldn't have job jumped as much. I would have. I would have done things a lot different. I'm gonna be honest, I would have gotten to training a lot sooner. Like trying to be a presenter, instructor, whatever you want to call it, just to try to help people, you know, pay for it sooner. And just sad that it took so long to get there.

So after the teaching gig or the high school teaching gig, what was the next step for Andrew?

So the next step, there was a gentleman here in our area that owns a highly successful high volume repair shop. And I always admired Jeff. I admired his two sons that are running it today. They're third generation. Jeff was at every training event, every CTI class given in the area. I'm just, he was, he was awesome. Very intelligent. And I don't want to go too far down his story, but him and I were going through very similar things at the same time.

So we, we talked a lot, and Jeff found out what happened to me at the school, and I had a text message and he's like, hey, if you need somewhere to land, man, I got a spot for you. So Jeff and his two sons, Jake and Jeremy, took me in with open arms. I became a drivability tech. I was just, just doing diagnostic work. And, you know, that that helped get me through. I mean, the, I'll give them a little shout out here. The readers really stepped up and became family to me when I needed it. The most.

They were very. They were very accommodating. And what I wanted to do, like, they knew I wanted to instruct. They seen the itch. They were great with me when the opportunity to go to work for Sherwood down South came available, and they reached back out when they knew I had to come back home. So I ended up with them. I actually just recently left them again for no other reason. Like, sometimes seasons change, right? And they're growing.

They're going in a direction that, for me and my health, I'm having a little bit of health issues. I knew I had to slow down. I wanted to focus on training another gentleman that I admire. Hey, man, I can make this work if you want to come here and do things with us while you're teaching. So it's. Again, you know, I've been blessed, man. I've been. God's taking care of me.

My friends have taken care of me. People have taken care of me. So if I can. If I can pay that forward in any way, shape, or form, I do.

So I think that's what happens when. When we put good things out there. And I mean, even, like, you know how you think, like, we look back sometimes we're like, I wasn't doing anything good out there for anyone, and I shouldn't be, but it's. Sometimes it's just the. The little things, you know, the wanting to put. The want means that you still reciprocate, you still get it back, you know, to touch on Sherwood. What was the. What was the appeal? Like, how did you.

How did you know about that shop? So didn't make the networking through training or.

So this is this kind of a cool story. And Sherwood was just with Carmen, and he wouldn't use my name because he didn't talk to me, which was cool. So I'll tell you guys, if you watch the episode with him and Karm, he absolutely was referred to me, but one of his techs, Mike, who's. Who's become a really good friend of mine. Mike and I talk all the time, but Mike was in one of the forums on Facebook, and he put up a job, the wantad. And I'm reading through it, and I'm like, man, this guy's got, like, they really. It's about culture, culture, culture. And I've never really been a part of that.

I mean, the reader's done a pretty good job of the family atmosphere, but it's so high volume there and just so busy. Like, it's hard, right. And it doesn't really fit the way I think. And, like, I was always honest with them. Like, I just. Our ideas were always different. But sure. What's really matched? What I.

What I believed in. Yeah. And talked to Mike a couple times on the phone. His tech. And his tech finally was like, hey, sherwood, you need to call this guy. And sherwood called me one day. He was driving back, I believe it was from the keys, visiting one of the stepkids, if I remember correctly. And he called me, and we had a really good conversation, and he's like, hey, figure out when you can come down here.

I'd love to have you here. So this is around July 4 weekend. Talked to my wife, talked to the kids. I'm like, hey, I've never seen the ocean in my life. We never really traveled. Never had the money to because, you know, trying to raise four babies. You guys want to go to Florida? We got some extra money. Let's make it happen.

We drove down there. Sherwood met us at the hotel. They had gift baskets in there for my kids and holly. I mean, they were just. Just phenomenal, man. Just. I can't. To this day, like, I can't tell people enough.

Like, the things Sherwood cook and his son Sherwood did for us, you know, from a personal aspect and trying to get us down there was, you know, I get. Probably see the emotion right now. I get emotional because, you know, even though it didn't work out, the respect I have for that man and his operation and the things he does, you know, proud of him. Proud. Proud of the things they're doing down there. But, you know, it was a cool interview process. I talked with Sherwood on the phone, so that's interview one. I met his son Sherwood.

So, you know, Sherwood's a junior, and then his son's the third. So we call him s two and s three.

Nice.

So I met with s two and s three and one of his advisors at the time and had another interview on the spot. And then they had us over to s three's house. They had a bounce house and full spread of meal, and all of his people that could be there from the first shop were there. We all hit it off good. He then told me, I believe it was on this visit. It may have been shortly after it kind of all runs together, because this happened really quick. And he told me that he was getting location number two and wanted me to come down and help run, become his guy at location number two, because he already had Andrew that's featured in the videos as his shop foreman at number one. At the first store.

So we did it, you know, and there was a lot of learning curves. And I'll be honest, and I think I've talked with Sherwood about this. At times. I think we had personality conflict. Cause we're both alpha males. Very much so. And sometimes I think, you know, we probably, probably should have talked things out more. And I'll take blame for that.

I'll take blame for that. But it was great. It was a great experience. And, you know, I consider a lot of those guys still to this day, my friends, some serious family. Things came up where we had to move home. Yeah, they were very, I mean, they were so cool about it, like, you know, and you got to understand, like, they spent a lot of money to get me down there. And one of these days, one way, shape or form, I'm paying back every dime they spent to get us down there and back. Like, I.

One day when things finally calmed down.

Financially, you made a big impression, though, with the people, like, in their socials, like, because you still see the comments and it's like, andrew leave, right? Why did Andrew leave? Yeah, I mean, people, it's like, it's the online haters that want to have this, you know, this detractors that say, oh, he's not a good place to work for, but, I mean, you had a lot of people that just seemed to be, and I understand that. It's just like, part of your role. There wasn't the fact that a lot of what you were working on is what they want to shoot for content. Right?

Yeah.

So you're in front of the camera a lot, and then everybody's like, where did Andrew go? Yeah, and that's what I was like, you know, why, what? It couldn't, it. He couldn't have left because of something bad? No, there was nothing. There was no reason he would leave because of something bad. A very important reason to go. Then you don't have to touch on that. It's not, you know, if you don't want to touch on, you're not comfortable, that's fine.

I mean, you know, long story short, I mean, I'll share it because we kind of alluded to it. You know, they were very respectful to things that were going on. I want to put that out there. You know, royalty as a, as a, as a business, as a corporate, however you want to say, you know, they were great to me. My youngest son was fighting some very serious depression. It was just crazy because he was the one that wanted to make the move down there. But, like, once we got there, him and, him and my wife both were really fighting some serious depression. We realized that it was because, you know, we were thousand miles away from everybody, right? And the kids and her did not have a very good, warm, fuzzy feeling at the school because my wife's a school teacher, so she was teaching there and just some things happen.

And then when my son started dealing with the depression, you know, I realized, you know, dad, dad Cape comes out, right, the super dad cape. And my once can't outdo his needs. And s two really understood where I was coming from that when I, when I approached them, you know, and I just kind of disappeared. I mean, they were, they were so respectful that later on, we did put a video out where we announced why it left. And I still, I mean, it's so cool. I mean, I was at STX and I had people coming up to me wanting to take pictures and talk and, and the, the way that makes me feel, and I know the way it makes Sherwood feel, like, you can't put that in words. Like, you're almost like a superstar. So it's kind of like, first time it happens, you kind of like, not that I think I'm a superstar, right? But it's like that whole, it's so bizarre that people come up and like, I had a hispanic gentleman come up to me and this was at STx and he's like, hey, you changed my life.

Yeah. You don't realize, like, as people and as instructors, presenters things of that nature, like, you have a ripple effect on people. Like, if you, a good friend of mine, Glenn Todd, told me one day, like, hey, man, what you do? You're changing family trees. You're changing lives. And we don't sometimes think about that, you know, as content creators, as instructors, as teachers, as hell, as fellow man, right? And you think about, like, if somebody took something you taught them and they just gained 5 hours a week on it, you just changed your whole life. You just changed your tax bracket. And I never, man, you want to talk about never thinking about that? And like, that is the, I'll be honest with you. I would teach for free if I could.

If I didn't have to take money because I'm leaving work, I would instruct for free the rest of my life just for that high. And to get those responses from people, like, it's, man, that is the ultimate. I used to be you, right? Like, I used to be that guy or girl that came up to me. And, you know, again, I was blessed. I had Ken Zanders in my life and John Thornton, Scott Manna. I mean, I could go on for hours, the guys that I was blessed to have. But a lot of people in other parts of the country haven't had that. You know, and they rely on social media.

So, you know, whether you hate it or love it, because I sometimes could take it either way. Yep. You know, that's why Paul Danner. I mean, that's why his platform, so important and so big. I mean, he was the. He was the guy that started this, right?

He's the nucleus. Like, he really is. I mean, and that's not throwing shade at any of the guys from older age forever, but YouTube was this. This uncharted thing. You know, everybody had it, right? It had access to it. Everybody had it. And I was just like, the first time I saw the first ASD, the e that I went to, and that was Paul's first one, the way. It's just like you were saying, the way people responded to him, he said it.

It's overwhelming to him. It's just like. And I didn't. I didn't get it. I'm just like, you know, you do now, though.

I mean, you. You got a platform now.

That's like, when I was there, it was the same. It was like, people want to stop and shake my hand, and I'm terrible. Like. Like, Paul makes a joke, you know, we should all wear our profile pictures around my necks because we can't remember names, but I could remember some faces, and people would be like. And you're like, they're telling you who they are. And I'm like, okay, I think I remember the little bit of conversation, but they are so not enamored, but so thankful.

Yes.

Just a little bit of what we put in you and I, people like us, it resonates so much with them, right? It's just like you said, it's that ripple. And, I mean, that's how you end up with a tidal wave at the end that just starts to smash. That old way of thinking is because, you know, you have all these little pebbles that fall in the pond, and it just keeps. It just keeps building and building and building until. And so many people. It's like Ben J. Burris, right? He's like, everything, you know, the way you were resonated with me. You know, people say, when you were so mad about that, he said, I've been in that place.

So a lot of it for me has not been from a good place where this effect that I've had, it's been this frustration and this anger, but, and I keep saying it's so therapeutic for me to do this. I would do this for free. I pretty much do it for free because of the therapy. I will never stop doing this as long as I can because it keeps me. It's why I'm still here. You know? It's not about that I'm relevant, but it's why I'm still doing the industry, because I was like you. I wanted out bad.

Yeah. You know, this is, this industry is kind of like the best, worst girlfriend you ever had, right? Like, you love it, you love it, you love it, but, you know, sometimes you need to leave it, right? Like, it's, it's. It's kind of like you're the better battered woman in a relationship. Kind of a bad analogy, but an analogy nonetheless, right?

And it is, it is.

It's been tough, you know? Um, you've talked about this quite a bit. I mean, I've had great mentors, but I've had some really, forgive my language, a lot of shitty ones, too, that just treated me like crap and told me how stupid I was. And, like, you start believing that, and I've always said, like, I'm never going to be that guy. And I caught myself doing that initially on some of the forums. So kind of a quick funny story. First time I met Scott Hicks, Scott's like, man, I was a little intimidated to talk to you. And I'm like, why, dude, is it the RBF I know I got, you know, resting bitch face all the time. He's like, no, man.

Like, our first encounter online, you were kind of an asshole, you know, and like, wow. Like, first off, I never meant it that way. Like, in typing, you can take typing however you want, right? Like, you can. You can really twist that. Oh, God, so horrible. That's why this is so great, you know, I remember the first time I had talked to Brian Pollock online. I thought I was like, man, this dude's an ass. You know? Then, then we've, we've since got to know him a little bit, you know, chatting back and forth, and you're like, oh, man, you know, I'm just.

I read that the way I wanted to read it, you know? So it's. It's a love hate relationship with it. But I think for the most part, like, man, we're seeing the changing of the guard. We're starting to see text and mentees and mentors starting to really do better. You know, I think that old way of thinking, like, I'm not scared for somebody to be better than me. I want every one. I think most people are. But two, I want people to do better than I do and be better, and if I can.

If I can, you know, pour some water and miracle grow on that a little bit to help you out. That's what I'm gonna do, you know? And again, I was blessed. I was blessed. I had good and I had bad, but the good ones just had such a positive impact in my life that I'm gonna pay that. Pay that forward, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying so hard to not be one of the worst mentors that I ever had. You know what I mean? Like, the kind of guy that, like, you didn't want to approach in the shop, you didn't want to ask to borrow a tool, you didn't want to ask for help. And it's tough some days, right, because we get a little older and then we see the different. The younger generation is different than our generation was in the generation before that, and we're just like, that kid's not worth putting the time in, you know.

Which I think a lot, you know, again, I got a different perspective because I got to teach a lot of this generation stuff, right? And I. The thing I always tell guys that, man, this generation doesn't work or doesn't want to do this. You just don't know how to approach them. Yeah, these kids, and I don't blame them. They don't want to work 55, 60 hours a week. Like, they want to have that work life balance. They. They're not going to remember firing orders and crap like that because they got this right.

This is the most powerful tool in their arsenal, and they know how to utilize it. So, like, I always approach it like this with the younger guys. Teaching mechanics is hard. I think mechanical ability either have or you don't, and I'll be the first to tell anybody. Mechanical ability is probably where I struggle the most. That's why everybody was so hard on me. They told me how bad I sucked because I screwed a lot of stuff up, right. But, you know, I can't teach that.

But what I can teach you to do is how to find information. And I think as a mentor now at this point in my life, that's, like my big thing. Like, if kid, a younger guy kid comes up to me and goes, I'm gonna pick on one of my former apprentices, Derek. You know, I love Derek. He has the mechanical aptitude, but he would always come up and be like, hey, man, what do you think? And, you know, I'd always be like, did you read? Did you look it up? You know, and it got to the point where he would come up to me, say my name, and I just kind of give him that look, and he knew he'd drop his head, and he knew he needed to go read a little bit. And I'll be honest, like, 90% of the time, like, he got what he needed out of just reading, you know, just sometimes they need that. Hey, I'm not. I don't want to be your crutch.

That's not what I'm here for. I'm here to help you grow. But if that information is available to you, go find it.

Yeah.

And if you do that.

I struggled with that because a lot, like, a lot of the way I talk is just as if we were talking in the shop real quick. We're all right behind the eight ball. The time crunch is on, and it's like they're asking you questions like, go look it up. I can't remember right. Or, you know, why are you asking me? You have the same computer on your laptop that I do, or, excuse me, on your. On your workstation. Go look it up. It's up there.

I know what you're asking. I understand why you're asking it, because. But trust me, go look it up. Read the effin service information. Right? It's. It's a battle cry in some of the groups, and that's where I got that reputation for, oh, he doesn't want to help anybody. And it's not. But it's like, I want to show.

Yes, I want to show you how to, to. How I had to do it, right? Because it's not to say that I'm not going to help him because I had to fight and scratch. It's. That's the thing for my attitude. But it's a situation of, like, if I keep giving the answer, what happens if tomorrow I get hit by a bus and I'm not here?

Exactly.

You do, right? We talked.

Exactly.

We talk about that. And it's like, that's that rough edge that's going on in this industry right now. Brian and I talked about that last week, where there's so much going out there for content, for content's sake. And it's. I'm seeing some people that are putting some content out there, and it's like, well, the content push is so important because it's financially, they're relying on it, and I get it. But tomorrow they could snap their fingers and go, you know what? Everything on YouTube, everything on TikTok is not monetized. And then what do you do? Then you're stuck with a broken business model.

Well, and if that's. It's gonna hurt some feelings, and I don't care if that's the whole reason you're doing it, get out. Just leave right now. If the first. If the reason you're putting content out, that's from a training perspective, is for money, man, you're doing it for all the wrong reasons. Get the hell out. We don't need you anyway. And that hurts some feelings.

And I'm unapologetic on that regard, you know, now if you're doing it because you want to help people and, hey, the money came, okay, that's cool. But no, you're not. I struggle with that because I can't do that. Right. Like I've often said, like, if I, most people know I don't put out content a lot, I talk a little bit on tick tock, I don't do anything YouTube. And a lot of it won, you know, for me, Sherwood started that and royalty started that. For me, that was where I witnessed it. Right.

And I don't. Well, they're going to have different followers and I would. I don't want to follow the same role. Right. Like, I think that would be. I'm struggling with that. I think it would be disrespectful to s two and s three. That's where I'm at with it and that's why I don't do it.

But if I was to put it out there or I do decide one day or, you know, Sherwood and I have a conversation, I feel comfortable with it and I do put it out there. I want to be honest with you. Me, the type of person I am, if it becomes monetized and I make money, I'm giving that right back. And, you know, we're going to do sponsors, we're going to do scholarships, that that's what we're going to do. Because you don't get into training for the income, it's the outcome.

That's right.

So I, I struggle so bad with the, with the money side of this that it's kind of why I've, I've really hit the brakes on doing a lot of stuff.

And that's the biggest thing for me is it's like misinformation is a terrible thing in our industry. Right. I call out people all the time that are saying things that are just flat out lies or teaching something the wrong way, maybe teaching something the wrong way, but you know what I mean, right? Like when, when they think they're teaching a voltage drop and they're not really teaching the voltage drop, I'm going to call that person out. But then when it's like, okay, you'll leave things up there because it's monetized. Even though it's misinformation. It's everything I can do to not like, start a war because it's like, we're trying, we've been working so hard to try and get away from that in this industry. And then I see people that it's like, listen, bro, I'm leaving that content up because, like, I'm getting, you know, downloads off of it. Saves shares, follows, likes, whatever pays x amount at the end of the month, I don't care.

It's misinformation. It's wrong. You're making us look poor. Don't do it. And it's a tough thing, right? Because you don't want to get known as that person to be like, calling them out because, oh, you're a know it all. No, there's a reason I don't teach anything online on how to do it technical, because everybody does it better than me. In terms of how you're teaching.

I'm the same way.

It's like if we're going to have a conversation about, you know, the shop dynamic, the culture, I'm, I'm going to put my hand up and I'm going to be involved in every one of those conversations. Absolutely. A lot to share from that perspective. Right. I, going back to my, my, I remember one guy I work with and it's, I'll never, he will be with me until my final day in my brain and my psyche of how not to be. Because he was one of those people that was like, he was physically, he would physically assault coworkers. He was like, and so I catch myself once in a while when something pops into my brain and I go, whoa, I sound a lot like he did. And that's just enough for me to reign myself back in.

And I don't want to blame the job, but it happens like that. The time constraints, the pressure, the flow, whatever you want to call it in the shop, it's such a business. Yeah. You feel like constantly, like you're, I don't have time for you. I don't have time for you. And that's where I have to just dial back. You know what the, there's only so many opportunities he's gonna have that young person in his life for me to mentor him and to be mentored. So regardless of whatever the customer's waiting in the waiting room, it doesn't matter.

When there's a teaching moment, you got to jump on that teaching. You know, I'm good for that. When I've. When I find something, like you called earlier, the light bulb moments, when I have those, I pull everybody over in the shop, and someone looking at me like, what are you showing me this for, dude? Like, I. I don't. I don't care that, you know, I'm reaffirming that. Hey, it can be this simple or it can be this. You know, it's just.

This is how we go wrong. This is how it goes wrong. And that's, you know, people, open vessel. I say it all the time, right? Be an open vessel. Be allowed to have people pour into you, because that's what we're all here to do. You know, I. So, yeah, when I think about the people that have molded me, yes, I've had some great, positive people, but it's the people that were, like, really hard on me that made me, you know, not buckle under anything else that I've ever faced since. Not even close, you know?

Yeah. You know, sometimes those, you know, I'm a guy of faith. I mean, I literally wear my faith on my sleeves. Right. I think sometimes God, the, you know, Lord puts people in your. In your pathway for a reason. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad. And it kind of goes back to one of my favorite sayings is, you know, he who the Lord favors, so does the devil.

Right? So sometimes. Sometimes those people are put there on purpose, and really, I'm gonna be honest, even the ones that were absolutely shitty in my life and were horrible role models, I thank them because they showed me what not to do and not who to be and not what, you know, how I want to be remembered. And, you know, that's really helped been, especially in the last couple of years, you know, as we're transitioning to more of a presenter, demonstrator, instructor role. You know, I wanna be. I wanna be somebody that people can think in a positive light, you know, and not in a negative. So you got to reflect back on those bad times, too, just so you don't fall into those habits.

Now, last week, kind of what spearheaded this, not this conversation, because we were going to have this conversation, but you put a post up, and it got a lot of traction, and a lot of people where did that come from Andrew? Because it wasn't a situation of, like, you were negative.

No.

You're saying that very much what a lot of us that are more known to be negative had been saying and what. What spearheaded that for you? Where did that come from?

Hawking light hawking and I had been having this conversation for a while, and we've been talking about it and talking about it, and we've never really put it to paper. And I think it was an IAtN post. Believe it or not, I still work on there once in a while, and people. People were. They were just talking about having trouble finding people. And then I had a conversation with a fellow advisory member from one of the local high schools, and he starts going off about not finding good help. And I talked about it more from the technician side, but maybe you should look at what you don't offer and what you're doing wrong. Stop putting it on everybody else.

So let's talk about what some of us older techs, some of us younger techs, whoever, things we're looking for. Let's talk about the culture shift. Let's talk about it, because that. That's where we got to start making the changes. This is not a job. This is not a job. This is a career, and we need to make it that way. And that post kind of, kind of started that.

I got. I got some really good feedback, had some, got a little bit of hate from it, too, from some people I would have never imagined in my inbox, you know, like, hey, you can't. You can't set the precedent that way. Not everybody can afford it. Well, I completely understand that. That wasn't my intent at all, but I'm trying to make you understand, like, definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. It's time to change.

Yes, 100%. You know, and it's like, everybody, if you want to talk about a destination training event or a training, you know, there's still so many shops that have zero training budget.

Yes.

First of all, that shouldn't even be a thing anymore, right? We should be like, all of us have some kind of training budget, and then we should be aspiring to be able to take our people to a destination event for what the culture of that they will come back with. Like you said, the networking, everything. When that post came up, you know, you reached out to me and you're like, hey, I want to do. I want to start a project with you. And, you know, we agreed we're not going to share a whole lot of what it's going to be. But, I mean, I think it is going to be really exciting to do, and I think it's going to bring the kind of conversations that need to happen, and it won't be. There'll be a lot of things said that everybody's already heard. Yes, because, I mean, the conversation happens every day.

You know, we just keep holding each other accountable. But I mean, if we can get some of those superstars on both sides of the table to come together and sit down in a room with people listening and table it, and that's what I'm going to be doing. I'm going to be hopefully just tabling it because, I mean, I'm not going to be the input on, you don't want to listen to my business advice because you have no customers and you don't want to hear me talk about how to fix a car because you probably go down a rabbit hole. But if we can, if we can get those conversations happening about, I have to see your perspective better and you have to see mine, right. Then we just go home from an event like that where everything starts to really, because you hear the people talk about, it's like they go to these events and then when they, you know, for the first couple weeks, maybe they do some things and then they just fall right back into the same old, same old. And I think that it's not just a situation of, like, you have to have the conversations in the classroom, but we all have to, like, how do we implement what we just learned? And I think that becomes more about, you know, you sitting across from your boss, are you sitting across from an owner, sits across from a tech and goes, okay, I understand your struggle, but let's work on why that is. And then because the why is way more important. You know, we can't just keep saying it's greed, that, you know, they're not going to this, they're not doing that.

It's not, it's not.

Not at all.

You know, fear is what is keeping so many of us from doing that last. They're making that last step. It's just fear. You know, I think if we can show that, like, I'm going to have your back and you're going to have mine, that's the big. Then the fear thing doesn't become such an issue. You know what I mean? Like, it's tough. A. Like, my boss, I keep saying he leans on me for so many opinions, and I give them mine, and he doesn't really enact a ton of them.

But I know that he's listening and I know that he's considering it and it's just, and I want it to be like, if you just asked me, like, if you asked me on Friday, I want it to be enacted by Monday. I realize that it takes a long time to take that step, to go to that next place. You know, that it's tough, eh? But I'm excited. I am super.

You know, it's kind of like, you know, give a little bit here. Like we talked about earlier. I think, too, a lot of us as technicians, you know, lack of a better term, right? Like, we think we know what it takes to run a business, but realistically, we got no clue, man. I fix cars. I'll never claim to be a business guy. I will tell you this, that I spend a lot of time reading and researching and trying to understand the business more. For me, it's the leadership mindset. Like, I love leadership roles.

I just love it. I always choke around. If I could find somebody, just wanted to be a money man and let me be in control, I would do it because I'm horrible with money. I'm just gonna put that out there, you know, and, you know, and there's a lot of shops that have mass chaos and it's. Because it's. It's piss poor leadership, right? If you're dealing with chaos 24/7 you gotta look in the mirror and sometimes that's hard to. A hard conversation to have, whether you're the owner, you're the management team, whatever you are, you know? And again, from a technician standpoint, we all think we have the best ideas, but, like, we need to. We gotta buy into it too, right? And I think that's where it becomes imperative that, you know, numbers are shared.

You know, I think owners need to stop being afraid of doing that. I. I'm at a point in my life I don't think you're running out and buying your third and Harley and your second big bass boat. Like, I understand what this, it takes money, right? But like, I think we need to share numbers. We need to be honest and open with each other, but we got to set realistic goals, too. And then we got to create a culture that's going to work a, for the budget of the shop and b, for the personalities that are in there. So I really look forward to this conversation. I hope.

I hope it gains some traction. I hope, you know, both sides come away better than the whole this is me against them mentality. Because, I mean, if we're honest, man. That's what we see. And I'll be honest with spawned this a lot. I mean, Hawkin and I have talked about it, but Sherwood see my post and called me, and at first I thought maybe I upset him, and then he started explaining some things that I would have never looked at from a technician side. Right. And it was, it was great information.

And that's, that's where I was, like, you know what? I think we keep talking about it. We keep talking about this stuff, but I think it's time that maybe we do it in a bigger, bigger capacity and get more input from, from both sides and stop, you know, us against them.

Imagine if it wound up being a series.

Yeah.

Like, we're at every event. It's just a continuation of a conversation that could be so with, with new guests and old guests. Like, imagine what that would do, right?

And we got to do something. You know, we got, as an industry, you know, let's face it, a lot of these smaller, older shops are closing their doors. You know, as an instructor, I see a lot more corporate stuff take over, which, you know, you, this, that, or the other, you know, whether it's good, bad, or indifferent, whatever. But I think. I think some of them are doing good things. On the culture side, they're trying to promote things, and on other sides, they're, they're really lacking. And I think from a technician standpoint, let's face it, the average technician has a huge ego. I mean, we all know it.

I've had one. I have one at times. We all do, right? And we got to put that in check and, like, really say, like, you know, I'm a tech. I might not have all the right answers on a business perspective. And, you know, I'm a tech. And, you know, I think sometimes as a technician, we forget that the hardest part of the, this industry, in my opinion, happens at the front counter. And then we, we discredit those guys so much again. You know, you hear it all the time.

Oh, he's a mechanic, secretary, or whatever, right? And we, we got to stop that crap. And I hope. I hope this can evolve and be really good and, you know, get some conversation started, man. I'm really looking forward to what this could become.

The buzzword that's always for me on the tip of my brain lately. And we see it a lot more as value, right? And I mean, and it's. It's a good way because a lot of us are starting to say we're not valuing ourselves, right? So like, you and I, before we got on, I talked about how sometimes you can see that customer and they're so thankful that, you know, what really should have only been like, should have been a $200 repair. He did it for a $100, just round numbers, and you see that look of surprise, and then it's like, the tech of me wants to go, we should have got that other hundred bucks because there's things we need that that $100 couldn't go towards. You know, you can't go to training if you gave away $100, you know, and gave away is not always the best term, but, I mean, essentially what it is, is if you could have got more and you didn't get it, whatever. But so the value word has become a lot better in terms of just saying, hey, I feel undervalued. Before, we used to say, I felt ripped off. I felt taken advantage of.

And now I'm just like, so the value is a much better way to say to people, let's really look at what our people do. You know, it's been good for me because I look at, like, I know the struggle now of how tough it is when you're dealing with people on the counter and they are so reluctant to trust, so reluctant to pay. And it's. It's a fight. It is a fight. And, you know, it's that balancing act of, do I get what? You know, we always. I used to say it, just put your door right up. It's so.

Yeah, because that's so easy. Right. The way I thought, too, honestly.

And then I realized what it is is it's not so much the door rate, it's the repair cost. And you look at it, and it's like, so if you put down every little bit of labor that should be there at that door rate, your repair cost is way above everybody else's. And then it's like, so you, you go in and you say, okay, so we only did the labor at 2 hours, and it should have been three. The repair cost of the customer is still competitive what everybody else is at. But I, the technician looking at going, well, you gave away the labor, or you gave away part of the labor. You shave the labor. I'm. I'm starting to understand now why it has to be done sometimes.

Because the door rate has put us at a point where. And it's scary, right? Because we're going to see the door rates continue to go up. There's just no way it won't. I mean, it's. We're going to have to, you know, I said it. We're going to have to start throwing money at this technician shortage problem for a while until the culture catches up. And the door rates, we're going to see $200 door rates and, you know, we're going to see 150 be common, not uncommon. And again, you know, like you talked about at the beginning, certain areas won't support $150 an hour door rates.

Right. Like certain rural areas where there's still so many people, you know, doing things for under $100 because that's the demographic maybe that that's all they can afford. You know, there's pockets of, you know, really hard hit parts of the country.

Yep.

Those people don't have the resources for $200 an hour door rate. But how do we, how do we make it so that we're still, like. Because we can't see those places, not be able to bring the culture that this industry needs to have up. But how do we do that, Andrew? Like, because as somebody that's taught, and you said you've been around and exposed to so many different. How do we do it?

Man, if I had, if I had all the answers for that, I'd be, I'd be the guy everybody's paying to have talked to him, right? I wish I did. You know, from, from a technician standpoint, here's what I say to everybody. You know, for the owners listening, you just got to give people the, the right place to work. Right. We gotta believe in training and building up career paths has always been a big thing. Like, I'm at a point in my life and career. Like, I wanna know there's another step. You know, I don't, I don't ever believe in maxing out.

Right. And a lot of, a lot of younger technicians want to know that there's that next level. But we also have to have that uncomfortable conversation that a lot of people don't like to admit that if we're not careful, we're gonna take our rates so high, people aren't going to bring us their cars. Yeah, that's, that's the other side of this. And I know there's, there's points, counterpoints, everything. I get that. I've heard both sides. I understand that.

But there became a point when the tv repairman just, it was cheaper to go buy a car or buy a new tv. Right. We've got to be careful. But I think that's where the training aspect really comes into play. You know, that's why I think, you know, the, the training fund needs to be one of the most heavily funded ones. And I don't say that from the instructor standpoint, that, hey, I just want more of your money. That's not. That's not where I'm talking.

I mean, in training can come in various different forms. Yep. You know, but we've got to do a better job training so, you know, we're not throwing the clients money away. We've got to do a better job of educating the client on the other side of the counter.

Yes.

We got to do a better job of educating our advisors. I mean, I think the advisors should be at all the same class as the text thousand, you know, but we got to be careful. And I don't have all the answers. I'm not a marketing guy. I'm not a business savvy person. I'm none of that right. But I try to look at it like how I spend my money on other things. And if we're not careful, you know, we're gonna.

We're gonna outpace ourselves and, you know, constantly saying, give me more, give me more. Raise that rate. Raise that rate. Raise that rate. Like that. There comes a point where the value has to be there for one. Like, we've got to be offering the value to back up that rate. You know, people, people aesthetics, sell people.

You know, you've got to have that clean, nice shop. Your technicians need to be clean and look presentable. I mean, there's. There's a lot. There's a lot that plays into this, right? Not just. Not just the money that the owners are pushing. Pushing around.

And I used to, the tv repairman, when you said that to me, was such a. What an awesome analogy. Because, I mean, when I. My years of working at the dealer and still even my own headspace, sometimes I get trapped in where it's like if I saw a customer with a car at the dealership and it was two, three years old, and it was something that was driving them nuts about it. A lot of that, we didn't like to admit it, but a lot of those people, they just got rid of and got another car.

Yeah.

They just rated it and got another one.

Yep.

Once we step out of that dealer network, that's not reality anymore. Right. You're dealing with people that probably haven't even necessarily paid for this used car yet. Now, it's got a pretty substantial repair problem. You know, a transmission that's shot, an engine that overheats, like a diagnostic problem that nobody can seem to wrap their head around. And we always, as well just go get another car. It's not that simple. A and it.

Not anymore. It never really was. But, I mean, cost of cars, the cost of parts, it's just every. I get it right. Like, I try to be empathetic. Like, I understand cost of doing business has gone up. The cost of parts has gone up, the cost of ownership has gone up. But we still have to be mindful of trying to keep the sun out of my way here.

We have to be mindful of that kind of stuff, too, you know? And again, those are uncomfortable conversations nobody likes to have. And I think we have to have those conversations, and we got to start having them now.

Yeah, that's what. And again, you know, it always still irked me, and it still irks me when we talk about part scanning and misdiagnosis and stuff like that, because all that money, we know what happens. They don't get that money back. You know what I mean? Like, it's regardless. We all want to say, but there's so many shops leaving those wrong parts installed that it's just like, I can't stomach that. You know what I mean? It's so hard for me because it's like, that's where all that budget that the customer had for. For proper diag went.

Yes.

It went in a mass airflow that was $500. It didn't fix the car. You know, it ran on a fuel pump. That was $800 by the time you ran new lines or that didn't fix the car. You know, somebody, we were sitting. I was having dinner with my family on Wednesday night, and they were telling me about this. They didn't know what it was. A Mercedes sitting at a local shop.

And the local shop around here does not have a reputation for being the kind of car or the kind of shop that you would take a problem car to. They can move a lot of volume, longstanding reputation, but not known for. If you have a Mercedes with a particularly difficult problem, you would not take it there. And my mother's like, why does that happen? I'm like, well, right now, that's probably the only shop that could get them in right away. You know, if you try to take that car to the dealership, and I don't know how old a Mercedes it was, I don't even know what it was there for. She couldn't remember. She doesn't pay attention, that kind of details. But she's just over here in the conversation, right? And she's, like, trying to tell, I bet you Jeff could fix it.

First of all, no, because Jeff tries to avoid those cars. But secondly, it's a situation of, it's like, because if it went over to the dealer, a lot of the dealers now if it was ten years old would be telling the customer, scrap it, get rid of it. We're not going to be able to get to the bottom of this for you. That's a tough spot. A, it really is because this person, they might only had that car two years and it isn't paid off yet. And all of a sudden we're saying a module that you need isn't available and we think it might be the module. We don't even know. And like there's water intrusion issues that can cause this and that.

Like it could have been a, it's a can of worms. And I feel sorry for people like that that are stuck. But I mean this industry, you know, it comes back to the value. You have to be able to show the customer the value of what it is, that it's the problem solving side of it. You know, don't get wrapped up in the fact that it's a $700 module and you know, can we even get one? Well, let's get to that point first. Right. But it's going to take dollar 400 in say, just round numbers in diag time to prove it or disprove it. Yeah, it's going to take some investigative work.

Right.

And we got, we got to be honest, you know, I think Paul talks about the retainer fee, right. And I think, I think that's a smart move that I've seen a lot of shops starting to transition to in the shops that are putting parts on that aren't fixed. And I mean, come on guys, it take them back off, right. Either put them on the shelf or if you've got a relationship with your part store that allows you to send that back, that that's what you need to be doing. Right. But if you would spend some time sending your guys to training or mandating training, which, which I'm a believer in, then a lot of this would be alleviated. And the fact of the matter is, even though I'm complaining about we got to be careful about costs. The hour diag doesn't exist anymore and hasn't existed in a long time.

And we've got to make a change. We have to make a change. I don't know what that change is going to entail yet, but it's got to happen. We've got to do an inward search and we've, we've got to make some. Some changes inside the. The shops, but shotgunning parts, I mean, we got to stop that now. Is there times where, hey, I've got an idea. This $50 parts gonna end up taking care of it.

You know what you have or spend two extra hours digging into it. Those are conversations. You let the client make that call. Yeah. And I'm not. I personally am not afraid to do that. Like, I've done that a few times. Like, hey, I know I can get to the bottom of this problem.

Chrysler communication ones are my favorite. You know, hey, I can get to the bottom of this, or I can throw the star connector on here, ship you on your way, and 85, 90% of the time, we're going to fix your car. Right. Like, those are kind of conversations we need to be having.

Yeah.

The. Just guessing on everything is where we make each other look bad.

And. And it's tough because, like, it goes so fast. Like, the star connector is a perfect example. Right? Like, you. You've known about how common that particular part is to fail. And the way that it fails for a while now.

Yeah.

It just comes. Pops up in a tick tock video last month, and now all of a sudden, everybody's going, oh, my God, I had one that I got rid of, or I got one. I got rid of that car. If I'd have just known. This is the beauty of networking, right? This is why, you know, and again, I mean, intermittents are the worst.

They are.

Like, because you could spend all kinds of money trying to prove it out, or you can just, hey, I've been down this road before, right? I put a coil on and fix it, or I put an oxygen sensor in it when it was cold, or I put a purge solenoid in it, even though I didn't. And it fixes the car. As long as we are honest with the customers, that this is a try.

Yes.

You know, this is because otherwise, like, I had one on Thursday. Thursday is our Friday. They came in an hour before the shop shut down. They called an initial complaint. It's a 21 Volkswagen Jetta. Gas burner. Smell gas. Well, immediately you panic.

You're like, well, they're smelling gas. So, anyway, they get here, and, of course, by the time they get to the shop, they were probably 30 minutes away, and they're on a long trip. So they're from out of town. They get here, like, it's not even doing it now. What do you want us to do? Okay, well, let's look at the car at least and see. And we scan it. Of course, you know, check engine lights on now, which is not uncommon for a volkswagen, but it's a 2021. It's got like 111,000 km, so 70,000 miles there about.

And it's got misfire faults, evap faults, you know, and we're like, did the light was ever on before? No. Okay, well, here's the, here's the reality right now. The car is not broke. What do I think it is? It's a purge solenoid, right? The, the data is showing me that all the misfire, the, the everything you cause and the effect per solenoid stuck open causes this causes that causes fuel turns to go. I can't get you one this late in the day. We're not open tomorrow. The cars not is testing fine. Here's what we do know.

It's not leaking fuel. The fuel smell was probably a byproduct of it running rich, not of actually leaking gas. So what you were smelling was rich, not. And it was just that peace of mind that we were able to give to them, right. Was so much, they were so thankful that it was like, okay, they can continue on the road trip where they're headed and they're not. They feel better. Other shops might have said rural. We're not even going to be able to look at that today or, or I'm going to have to keep it here and make it act up before I can.

No, the purge solenoids got a QR stamp right on it. I can take a picture of my phone, put that on my DVI and go when you get back home. And if this should act up again, this is the part that we think is probably the problem, but it has to be tested. You can go online with this beautiful little QR code, look it up, get some understanding about what it is, where to find it, yada yada. Like Andrew, we have come so far in such a short period of time as an industry.

Yes.

I'm super excited about where we're headed. I really am. Like, it's, and I'm thankful because it's these kind of conversations and, and the changing the group and, you know, changing this, your group and ASAG and all that kind of stuff and people like Sherwood and yourself and everybody that is putting out content. We didn't, when I started this, you know, in the trade 25 years ago, we didn't have this like we had iatna.

Yep.

We didn't. It didn't. And it touched a lot of people, but it didn't touch the level that now.

Well, and those, some of those guys were just absolutely horrible. I remember asking questions or look, reading through and it's very much like some of the Facebook groups today. Right. But it was a great resource. But we've, we've definitely come so far. So far.

What are you excited about, Andrew?

Short term, just growth, man. Like, for me personally, I just want to keep growing. I want to be, I want to be the. I just want to keep growing my skillset, be a better tech every day, you know, better tech, better, better father, husband, brother, dad, all them things, right. Long term, I hope I'm around to see this industry make the shift that it's going to happen. Like, there's no doubt in my mind, we can't keep doing the same things we're doing. And everybody that's Debbie downer about it, like, you know, either shut your mouth and get out of the way or do something seriously, like, you need to look at it. Like, if not me, who? Right? And you're not going to agree with everybody.

You're not going to agree with everybody's opinions on things, and that's fine. But I am super excited of the changes we're seeing already. We've seen the wages for technicians really coming up here in the last few years. You see a lot more, or at least I see a lot more younger guys and girls in the crowds at educational events. For the longest time, I was always the young guy in the group, you know, up until just a couple years ago. And now you're seeing those late teens, early twenties people in the group, they're excited. They're, they're getting their education differently than we did. You know, they're doing the YouTube, the TikTok, the, you know, all those type of things, and that's fine.

You know, they're getting education somewhere, but I'm excited of where this is going to go. I think as an industry we are making strides. I don't subscribe to those guys. They're like, we're making no changes. That's, that's not true. Open your eyes. You're so narrow sighted. That's why you feel that way.

You look outside your own four walls and I promise you there's a lot of, there's been a lot of growth over the last few years. It's just gonna continue.

The pay growth is the first step that you see. Yeah, there's definitely been change. And, and I say this, I challenge the people. Like, if you have not gotten a payment bump, there's probably something wrong with you. At this point, everybody out there is giving. Not everybody, but a lot of people are giving money to their tax. They're bringing the door rates up because they have no choice, and they're bringing them because they don't want to replace them.

Yeah.

So if you have been passed up, there might be a reason for that. Either way, there's no better opportunity than right now to go and shop yourself around. And I'm not trying to say that to get, you know, for text to go to work tomorrow, on Monday and turn your notice. And that's not what I'm trying to say. But please keep in mind the value of what you are to the business that's there and give value back. Give value to your employer.

That's the key. And the other thing, Sherwood touched on this. Sometimes these owners are just so busy, you know, they're marketing, they're dealing with their coaches. They're dealing with problems in the shop. They're trying to do a culture. They're trying to do all these things. And it's not that they don't want to give you money. Maybe they just forgot.

Right. Maybe they forgot to have that. That annual conversation with you or whatnot. Ask. And the other thing is, is be ready for constructive criticism. If you can't take criticism that, hey, you're really failing me in this area. Yeah, get out. Yeah, I think.

I think we got to stop getting upset when we're told we're doing something wrong. Both ends? Both ends. Technician, owner, service, riders in, you know, be respectful of each other, but I think we got to start having those conversations of, where did I make the mistake? Why did I not get this raised? What. What do I have to do as your employee to get to that next level? Don't be afraid to have those conversations.

Yeah. 100%. Listen, I want to thank you for coming on, man.

Thank you.

I was looking forward to this. I've been just. I've been excited for this one. And the little project that you and I have in the works. We're going to talk about that, and I think it's going to really put some people on their ear. I think it's going to be really cool to see. I think, you know, when we sit in a room like that and we have that kind of conversation and if it gets. Especially if we can get it recorded and edited and put out there, we could be really onto something.

You know what I mean?

I think so, too. And remember, if not me, who. Right? So we got to do something, man.

Yeah. And it. We might not kill it the first time.

No. Hell, we might be killing each other. Who knows? But I think. I think this is the kind of stuff that needs to take place, and I think we need to hear it from all sides.

Yeah.

And, you know, it's too often we hear it from this side or that side. And. And sometimes we get, we get texts that, you know, lack of a better term. We're just ignorant, you know, and sometimes the owner is ignorant to what the tech wants to, you know, you were a tech 20 years ago, and you kind of forgot what it's like, you know? So I think. I think this is gonna be great. I really look forward to it, and I'm glad that. I'm glad that you're gonna, you're gonna spearhead this thing and take it by the horns, man.

I feel honored that you came to me with it. And, I mean, and it's funny, you know, like, that people put me in that place, you know, they feel like, I want you to, you know, to kind of mc it. I'm like, yeah, not an owner.

You're not an owner. I mean, you're a tech, and it's not a shot, you know, that. I think. I think personally, if we would have asked some of the guys that do the podcast that are owners, we would have set ourselves up for a little bit of bias, I think, being a tech, in your case. And because the amount of people you surround yourself with and the people, you know, you can kind of, like, remove yourself, right? You can mc this thing and be just fine. And I think that's why that was so important, at least for me, when I was thinking about doing this. And, you know, actually, Sherwood and I were the ones that were talking about it. I can't, I can't take full credit for this at all.

This was, you know, Sherwood and I were having the discussion, and there were some things he brought up, and I'm like, you know, dude, I never thought of it like that, and I couldn't have thought of a better guy, man. So I think this is going to be beautiful.

I appreciate it. Well, I'll let you go. I know it's family time, and. But we'll, we'll, we'll keep on the books on this. We'll get some, and I'm looking forward to it. Like, it's probably, we'll probably try and do it at ASD.

Sounds good.

And, uh, it's gonna. People are gonna love it. They might hate it, but I'm gonna. I'm gonna love doing it.

I love to hate it, you know? All right, brother.

We'll let you go.

All right, thanks.

Hey, if you could do me a favor real quick and, like, comment on and share this episode, I'd really appreciate it. And please, most importantly, set the podcast to automatically download every Tuesday morning. As always, I'd like to thank our amazing guests for their perspectives and expertise, and I hope that you'll please join us again next week on this journey of change. Thank you to my partners in the Asar group and to the change in the industry podcast. Remember what I always say, in this industry, you get what you pay for. Here's hoping everyone finds their missing ten millimeter. And we'll see you all again next time.

Subaru Uncharted

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