Building an Essential Skilled Automotive Career [RR 1060]

This is the Aftermarket Radio Network. Hey, everybody, Carm, Capriata, Remarkable Results Radio. Good to have you by. We appreciate. I appreciate you appreciating the episodic education that we create for you each and every week here on the Aftermarket Radio Network. We produce seven podcasts a week with five different podcast shows. So glad you're here. I've got Alfa Guest, Jake Sorenson. He's coming up here in a sec.

Hey, when customers choose a Napa Auto Care Center, they get more than a repair. They get trust, savings, and peace of mind. Want your shop to stand out? Connect with your local Napa representative and get the conversation started to become a Napa Auto Care Center. Hey, let's face it. Your shop management system is the most critical tool in your shop. And Napa Tracks will move your shop into the SMS Fastlane. When on-site training, six days a week support and local representation.

Find Napa Tracks on the web at NAPATRACS.com. Hey, welcome back. Jake Sorenson, how are you, my friend? Hey, Carm, I'm doing good. How are you? All the way from Sandy, Utah. I'm great, by the way. I'm always great. There's no reason to be ungrateful. All the way from Sandy, Utah, McNeil's Auto Care, Jake's the 2019 Napa ASC Technician of the Year, the 2019 Rep.

Cratchin' and Rangel Star Technician of the Year. How are those trophies? Are they nice on your shelf? They're getting some dust. It's been a few years, you know?

We're going to have to nominate you for something coming up here. ASC Master Tech, L1, L2, L3, Shop Manager and the Diag Specialist.

We're actually, he helped to develop the Napa Apprentice Program. It's a great story. We've done podcasts on that. So thank you so much for all of that initiative. I know there's at least four figures of people on the Apprentice Program and Jake, we owe it all to you.

Thanks. I think ties into a lot of what we always talk about, but we've got to be working on getting people in this industry.

And now we're going to talk about a bunch of stuff. Please stick around. I think you're going to love it because this is a lot of stuff.

Jake and I just chatted a while back and he says, Carm, I've got these five, six important things on my mind. I've got to get them off my chest. And I said,

let's do this thing. But it was just the other day we were, I was doing a podcast and we were talking about skill trades.

This lens right into the whole Apprentice thing. And I'm really trying to get it changed to what we call an essential skill trade.

This automotive career of ours because it was COVID that said we were essential. So why aren't we using the word in front of people

when we're talking to parents and young people that were an essential skill trade. And what hit me a couple of days ago,

I'm sitting here in the studio and all of a sudden the word trade hit me and I say, it's the wrong word because you know me,

I'm on this huge language shift in the industry. And every time I could find a word, I don't think that has feeling and value.

And it's grounded in the professionalism of our industry. I came up with the word occupation.

So think that through for a moment, we're an essential skilled occupation.

I like that because we aren't a trade. We don't fall into the same category as a lot of those.

Yeah, I know. And what does the word occupation mean, Jake? It really is, I maybe can afford a house and buy a car and find a spouse

and maybe have some kids, a career occupation means career, you're 100% right.

The outside world looking in every time we use lazy language, we just continue to perpetuate the unprofessionalism of our industry.

Yeah, I'm probably as guilty as anyone with it, but you bring up some good points. We have to try and shift that language,

especially if we want to attract people and we want to earn what we deserve.

Are we helping or hurting this staffing shortage that we have? And we have to stop and think about that.

And when we think about many of the things that go on in and outside of our industry,

and sometimes the image that we have, the fact that we aren't doing enough education, the continuing education for our people setting up career paths,

one of the other things that I know, because part of this whole thing is I just hit a recruitment team on.

We were just chatting about hiring people and ghosting and the resume stuff that's so in our industry.

How much does the shop environment, Jake? How much does that matter where professionals want to work today?

More than I think just about anybody considers because I think most people know that you've got to have a clean environment,

a welcoming environment to bring somebody on to hire somebody. And that's true, but what about keeping people?

Do you want to go to work, get a place every day where there's garbage piled up everywhere.

You've got used parts all over the work bench. It's just unprofessional. Things are left out, not taken care of.

It makes your job so much more difficult. And if your job's more difficult, you're not going to want to do that long term.

And so there's a lot of reasons that we're losing people in our industry, but I think the environment is a huge one.

And we really as shop owners need to look at that a little closer as to, you know, are we just cleaning it up to bring somebody in?

Or should we care about what they have to go do every day, 40 hours a week?

Jake, I think of the word pride.

Unfortunately, it feels like a lot of that's been lost. You know, I hate to stand up here saying, you know, we do everything right.

And our shop's perfect in all this. You know, of course, all of us have our struggles and things we work on.

But that's one of the things I lent slip for quite a while at our shop was the pride in taking care of equipment, taking care of your pay, putting your tools away at the end of the day.

Because I kind of took a little bit more of a hands-off approach saying, hey, these guys want to take care of things they want things to be done right.

So I'll let them do it on their own. But you quickly realize if somebody's got the pride in that or not.

And I think most of us have realized by now that that correlates to the quality of repair as well.

You find out pretty quickly that the ones that don't take the pride in their equipment, their appearance, their shop environment probably don't take that same pride in the quality of work that they're performing for your estimate.

It happens to all of us, Jake, as we let them do their own thing, assuming that they're going to go to the level that the expectation has always been set.

And when we don't monitor our own expectations, when we don't walk around and say, come on, guys, did you leave in a hurry last night? What's going on here?

Those kinds of questions that you ask over your people to find out why they're thinking like this, why they're doing those kinds of things.

And we got to be a whole lot more prouder, you know, to come back in the morning and see a clean environment and start with a clean, fresh feel.

Then it is this workbench of yours just looks like Hurricane came through.

Yeah. I think a lot of us have heard the story from the Navy officer saying that you should at least make your bed every day.

And kind of the point is that you start the day with one thing completed already.

So you start off on the right foot, but also you come home to a made bed. One last thing that you have to do that's comfortable.

I think the same applies at work in our shop environment, our bays, our tools, you know, trying to make sure we keep up on that stuff because we feel more accomplished.

If you at the end of the day, make sure those tools are put away. The bay is cleaned.

You know, if you had a vehicle in that you're almost done with, you just complete it.

So the next morning, you're starting fresh. It's a lot easier. You start the day off better. You're in a better mood. You feel more accomplished.

Totally agree. It has a lot to do with the culture of the place, the pride that they show in the work environment.

So that's a great thing. Let's keep in mind the shop environment.

And I remember, oh, isn't the other day that says karma, my air condition, all my shops.

And they say we're going to spend a ton of money, but we're going to do it. Even if it's a month worth of 90 degree days in August, it's up here in the northeast.

They still believe that it may be worth it.

Because sooner or later the people work hard, they go home totally drained physically, mentally because of the heat.

And they're looking for something else to do.

Yeah, when you're applying for a shop to work at, if you've got two options and one's air condition and one's not,

and I could tell you which one I'm going to, there's a lot of other things I'll give up to have that air conditioning,

but then move beyond that once you have the person there working at your shop, it's hard working on cars all day.

It's that much more difficult when the weather is hot and wearing you out physically.

So how many hours of lost production do you have? How many years do you take off of that technician wanting to work in this field?

There's a lot of unintended consequences.

I don't think a lot of shop owners have realized or thought about that things like that.

Yeah, I'm sure it costs some of these shops a lot of money to get that AC put in,

but they're going to recoup a lot on the other end that they may not see.

When I think about losing an individual and they may not necessarily say,

well, listen cheap bastard, you never put in the air conditioning and I just can't handle this anymore.

You'll never really know of the investment in the environment and the culture and the pride you'll never know.

I just don't think people that are leaving Jake tell you everything.

They never tell you the complete why do they?

No, I think you're usually going to hear the final straw.

You know, what broke the camel's back?

You're not going to hear all the things that led up to that, the small frustrations that they had every day,

that got them to the point of looking for another jubber,

but I'm to the point of considering leaving you.

Jake, do you see any issues going on with parts in the industry?

A couple of people have been chatting with me lately.

They're talking about reliable parts now.

I know that everybody in the industry works their butt off to get high quality stuff.

I mean, I know we have options.

We have the private brand stuff and the brand names out there.

We couldn't be this viable of an industry if we weren't making really good stuff in occasion.

We get some stuff you're not happy with.

Yeah, I mean, let me first say I'm a huge proponent of aftermarket parts

and buying from quality companies that are going to stand behind us with a warranty.

I mean, you go buy a part from the OE.

Good luck if they do have a warranty and getting them to honor that

and who knows what the labor rate is and how many hours they'll pay.

We're an auto care center and the warranty is amazing, right?

We know what we're going to get.

They pay it.

But one of the problems we're having in the aftermarket with aftermarket parts

is quality and fitment issues.

And I think that a lot of people just say,

well, you know, it didn't work.

Let's get another one.

We'll try something different.

But what they don't realize is the frustration that that creates for technicians

or for our repair professionals in the back,

you know, they don't want to install a poor quality part.

But when they try and install it and it doesn't work,

and they have to make it fit or make it work,

that's frustrating.

And then if the thing fails and there's a warranty

and they eventually have to install better quality part,

they might have lost some of the hardware that the aftermarket part didn't require or changed.

And it just creates a lot of problems that if your technicians are on a flat rate

or some sort of performance pay plan like that,

they may not get paid for or compensated for properly, right?

Even if you have a warranty in place, you know,

how much time did they spend trying to figure out what the problem was,

trying to make that work, finding the correct hardware.

So I know a lot of times from a divisor point of view,

it's easy to go with the cheapest part, right?

We want to save the customer money.

But I'm a big proponent of always installing quality parts.

And trust me, I'm the one getting an argument with our technicians when they say,

hey, I have to have an OE part.

And I'll say, well, who made that part for the OE, right?

If it was, you know, a name brand, a Bosch, a Delphi, a Denza, whatever,

we can buy that from the aftermarket.

It's OE quality part.

And I'm 100% on board with doing that.

What I'm suggesting though is there's a lot of poor quality parts that have entered the market

that don't fit properly, don't come with everything you need,

don't get the job done properly,

and it's creating frustration for the technicians.

And if we want to keep these people, if we want to keep these for repair professionals,

we've got to give them the quality parts

and help them get compensated for the time they're spending.

Absolutely.

It's a great point you bring up.

OEM is a part that was manufactured specifically for the OE

and then there's another product that they call in that industry OES.

And that's a secondary product that was made to fulfill the pipeline.

Can you imagine five years ago that you're getting the OE product

that was made to go on that specific car coming down the line?

I don't think so.

And as much as we really respect the dealers, we need them to be there,

I think we may, a lot of people love and will only buy OE from the dealer.

But it's not necessarily the kind of part that they think it is.

And I'm not saying I'm an expert at it,

but I've been around the horn a little bit.

And we've done shows on this.

We've done shows on the quality of the part.

And I think if it gets to the point where the aftermarket

is going to start suffering losses in their growth,

they're going to open their eyes and try to find out what it is.

It's services that availability is at quality.

If quality is the issue, Jake, then we got a problem.

I believe we do.

And I hope that shops will get on board to try and fix this.

I mean, first of all, I think we buy the quality parts, right?

And I'm buying them from aftermarket parts companies,

but buy the quality parts.

But when a technician repair professional comes and tells you

that the part didn't fit properly,

or we have to warranty that part because of a failure,

or they tell you, hey, I can just tell this thing is not the right quality.

This thing is not built properly.

It's going to fail, you know, whatever that reason is,

make sure you're processing that warranty.

I think some of the times the stuff gets swept under the rug

and I worry that they never realize there's a problem

and they're just going to keep selling those parts to everybody.

But if all of us are on board making sure we get these things warranty,

talk to your local part store about it.

Let them know that you're having these problems

and you'd like them to talk to the manufacturer

and let them know what issues you're having.

Hopefully we can start to address some of these

and get these issues taken care of,

but don't want to just give it to your professionals

in the back to have them struggle and have problems with.

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You did mention a few moments ago

the service advisors are going to buy the cheapest part.

I can't imagine the friction that it may cause

but an individual's had a little bit of a,

if you're managing your warranties and or your returns,

your quality issues, if you got it on a spreadsheet

and you start seeing the brands that are complicating the issue,

that are making for a comeback rate

that's unbecoming of a quality specialist in the back base,

that's something you've got to manage to your point.

Let's stop buying the cheapest forever

until our customer, this is the price

because I know it's not going to come back.

I've heard the argument that, well, if they go to shop A

and they offer them this lower quality part

that's less expensive and then I have to bid up

the higher quality, more expensive part.

We cost more.

I have a hard time believing that's a common issue, first of all.

But I also don't understand why we wouldn't want to explain that

to our customer.

Hey, there's some parts out there that people are selling

that we've just seen an extremely high failure rate on.

We wouldn't trust it.

We wouldn't want to put it on our cars.

And we can't offer you a warranty if we do this.

We'd rather get you in this part that we know we can stand behind.

And if there was an issue,

we're going to get that thing taken care of for you.

I think that's a lot better way.

You just said a ton and I hope you, my listener,

listened heavy to that.

We've tracked it.

We've recorded it.

We know what the failure rate is

and I'm not sure that the other shop that you're looking at

to do this job who's $100 less than us,

you may have to go back.

But the reason that we're where we are is this is,

we're going to buy a specific part

that we know won't cause an issue with your car.

That's why you know how to trust us

and you come here because we want to make really good decisions.

Great.

Completely sell your quality, right?

Sell your quality.

Oh, boy.

One other thing I know that you wanted to chat about

that is an issue in our world is work-life balance.

We talk about this almost to the point

where people are tuning it out.

But Jake, you have a passion about this.

We know that we're working hard,

but we also, there's this thing about having a life

that's so important.

I'm sure that the specialists that you're looking to hire

that you've interviewed in the past saying,

hey, you think I can actually work five days a week

and spend time with the family?

Do they ever say that?

Yeah, I mean, when they apply,

that's always the selling point,

especially if they came from a dealership,

they're saying, hey, I'm spending my whole life there.

I'm constantly there and they like the idea

that we're closed Saturdays or things like that.

But I'm going to tell you right now,

I don't think we've done a great job at this.

There's done as well as we should.

And I know other shops are fighting

with some of the same battles.

But you know, say you've got a specialist

that's worked his 40 hours or more that week.

Maybe it's in the middle of summer.

It's hot.

He's had some difficult jobs, big engines,

replacements or something like that,

where he's just beat up and worn out.

But we know we've got some big jobs that are sold.

We'd like to get them done.

We don't have anybody who can get that.

How many shop owners or service advisors,

service managers, whoever it is,

are asking your specialists if they're willing to stay

that evening and work a little longer

or come in on the weekend

and knock that job out for you.

And we try and sell ourselves that,

hey, we're helping them make more money, right?

We're going to pay them.

They're going to come in.

Work all these hours.

It's going to be a huge paycheck.

And you've got to fill it out.

Some guys, you know,

that's what they love and that's what they breathe.

But we're going to burn out most people doing that eventually.

And at some point,

you've got to be the professional to say,

it's not reasonable to ask the average guy

to work more than 50 hours a week

in this environment with the stresses

and frustrations that come along with our job

and expect them to be their long term.

You know,

the whole reason I even reached out to you

and said I wanted to talk about something was,

I'm always up on my soapbox about apprenticeships

and, hey, you've got to help train these people,

bring people in, invite people to our industry.

But what good does that do us

if we've got a lot of shops

where we're encouraging people to leave.

We're not helping retain these people.

And so maybe your shop can't do an apprenticeship.

Maybe your shop can't help bring somebody in.

Are you doing everything you can

to make sure that the people we have

have a good quality job

and want to stay in this industry

and have that work life balance.

They can see their family.

They can go relax on the weekends.

You know, whatever that is for them.

Maybe it's sitting at home watching football.

Maybe it's going out camping.

Whatever that is,

people need that mental and physical break.

And I don't know why.

It feels like to me anyways,

our industry doesn't see or care about that.

And man, we're pushing a lot of people away

and we've got to fix that, I believe.

You said something so big and impactful.

We are going to burn our people out.

We're going to burn them out.

Yeah, but I got to get the workout.

You didn't understand.

I can't find anybody.

We're all working triple double shifts and everything.

This is what we do in this podcast realm of mine.

We talk about this stuff to attempt to move people

off their top dead center.

Meaning, I can't find anybody.

I want the guys that I have.

We're going to have to work our ass off.

And they're all with me.

And they're all behind me.

And they all agree.

And then sooner or later,

you're going to lose another one of them.

Maybe a year down the road.

And you're going to atrophy.

And you're not going to give any quality of life to anybody.

And there's people out there that want these workaholics.

But they want to give them a 40-hour work week to accomplish it.

Okay.

I mean, hear me.

I'm not saying that you can't have a guy work after hours

or come in and help finish a job.

100%.

You know, if that guy's on board with it

and you approach it the right way, do it.

But you've got to be careful with how often you're doing that.

And you've got to be the one to see it.

Because hey, almost every specialist I've met,

almost everyone that I've worked with,

they're in this industry because they want to help people.

They want to fix cars.

They want to make sure these things are safe to drive.

They're yes people.

Most have a hard time saying no.

And I get, you know, there's some people listening to me saying,

oh, yeah, come work with the guys I'm with.

They'll tell me no and heartbeat.

Most of them want to make you happy.

They want to say the right thing.

So when you go ask them constantly,

if they'll stay a little later,

if they'll come in for the weekend, they're going to say yes,

whether they can or whether they want to or not.

So you've got to be the one to realize how often you're asking that

when you're pushing the boundaries, you know,

and pull back before you get to that burnout point,

before you ruin that guy.

And I'm not ready to talk about,

well, yes, they want to do that because there's some overtime

and it's money and, you know,

if the pay was right for the first 40 blah blah blah,

the profit of the company.

And I'm not ready to talk about that, but I just did.

It could open up a whole lot of new conversations, right?

And who knows the right answer,

but 50, 60 hours a week isn't the right answer.

I know that.

I've really been curious about the mobile business.

Really curious, Jake.

And from your perspective as a real key industry leader

from what do you see?

What do you smell out there?

All right, you're asking my opinion.

So this is just that, an opinion.

I could be wrong, okay?

But I came across an ad the other day looking to hire a mobile,

oil change, tire change, you know,

quick service type person.

And it was from a Mercedes dealership in a different state.

But I think most of us, when we hear Mercedes,

think higher end luxury vehicles,

the service departments are generally very nice.

So I'm thinking that's going to attract some people.

You know, the younger generation is going to love the idea

if I get my own van.

I get to drive around working from Mercedes.

I'm going to be working on top quality vehicles.

The most interesting part of that ad to me though,

I scrolled down and the pay was 20 bucks an hour.

And I know we have different markets everywhere.

But all I can think is you're going to get a guy

that's really excited to get into this.

It said we'd help train, you know.

So you're going to get a guy that's really excited

to enter the automotive field and think he found the right spot.

And then he's not going to make the money he needs

to support himself or to support a family.

And what is the growth from there?

Are you going to bring him into the shop eventually

and help him learn other specialties?

You know, is he going to stay in that van?

And then I also started thinking about,

you know, if you were the one doing that job every day,

is that as fun as it sounds going and changing oil

and somebody's driveway?

You know, when the cold temperatures or the hot temperatures,

being as careful as you can that you better not spill a drop on there.

And if you do, you know, what do you have to do

to get that cleaned up properly?

Not suggesting that we're spilling oil in the shop easily,

but I think most people understand what I'm saying.

It's not as big a deal here and we can clean it up easier here.

But out on the road, I think it makes everything more difficult.

And so I understand that from a sales point of view,

we're saying, hey, this is how we're going

to take care of our customers.

It's more convenient for them.

I know a lot of businesses are going this way.

Tesla has their mobile service.

There's a new startup, EV related auto shop in my area

that's doing mobile service as well.

And it's the big selling point.

But all I can think is I've never met a shop owner

that tells me he doesn't struggle with hiring.

That he's not having a hard time finding specialists.

And it feels like we're looking for new ways

to push people out of this industry.

We're going to find somebody that's excited.

And we're going to put them in this job

that just I don't think is as enjoyable as they want to believe.

And it's at a lower pay and there's no upward mobility there.

I don't know what we're doing.

Well, at least there's no mobile upward mobility

at least described in the ad.

Please join us at this entry level position.

We will show you when we get together with you

that you can have a hell of a career path in learning

in all about the Mercedes platform.

But let's just chat about what is that entry level position worth?

Is it 30 bucks, you think?

I really don't know.

And again, markets are going to vary, right?

I mean, if you're living in San Francisco,

but I got a hard time believing that in almost any market,

$20 an hour is the reasonable rate

unless you're offering something like training

and let's say an apprenticeship type thing

where you're saying, hey, we're offering the education.

We're putting you through schooling.

We're helping you get into a career.

And you're in that.

And it's a guarantee.

And you can move forward with that.

But otherwise, go look at what the fast food joints

in your area are hiring at.

And I think you'll be surprised.

$16, $18, I mean, just for an entry,

just for a French fry maker.

We talked about this recently.

How do I quickly figure out what the yearly salary

at $20 an hour is?

It's so easy.

In fact, you should multiply that number by 2018.

But drop the $80 so that in your mind,

it's nice and quick, you know,

$2000, $20 times $20, $40, $30 times $20 is $60.

And you have to ask yourself,

if I'm putting this mobile vehicle on the road

to do all these really neat, cool things,

I've got to invest X amount of money in that vehicle.

You know, the whole environmental thing,

the pump, the oil, the tanks, and everything.

And what's my ROI based on the person

that I have to hire on top of that?

That's the other investment.

And maybe, just maybe,

that entry level positions

in our industry, Jake,

aren't $20 positions anymore.

And they may not even be 25.

Yeah.

And then look upward from there too, you know.

You've got a specialist who's been working for you

for 10 plus years, you know,

as he's been getting his yearly raises.

Are you keeping up with that pay progression?

I like that you said,

multiply that hourly rate out,

figure out what that is yearly,

because I know a lot of guys are looking

at the hourly rate and saying,

wow, that's fantastic.

But they're not looking at the yearly, you know,

the annual salary to realize,

can you live on that salary in your area?

Owners have to do what they have to do

to grow a profitable, successful business.

I get that.

And there are some great strategies

on how to make money

from expense control.

I get that to what gross profit margins are

and all of that.

And sometimes you can find an entry level individual

that will come in for $25, $28 to start

with a career plan.

I hired this guy for $20, Jake.

This is really cool, man.

I'm going to make so much money

on that mobile vehicle.

And three months later,

you have appointments

and you have no one to drive

the vehicle and go service people

because they realized

that Duncan was paying 19.

Yeah, how easy is it going to be now

to take care of your customers?

And it may not be 40 hours a week.

I get all of that.

But our economy and the stress

on earning a living and enjoying life

is higher than it's ever been before.

And there's a lot of us

that have to stop living in the old days.

And it goes back to,

can you live on this?

How about this?

Can I live on this?

Hey, I like what you just said there.

We have to stop going back

to the old days.

I think that's part of it

is a lot of shop owners

were working in the field.

You know, they were the ones

in the back fixing the vehicles

and they're the ones saying,

hey, I was working 60 hours a week.

That's what I had to do.

And yeah, that's true.

But are you now?

There was light at the end of the tunnel for you.

Either you were working at a place

that required that new left

to go do your own thing

or you were doing that for yourself,

building something

so you didn't have to eventually.

And, you know,

I think if we got to remember that,

that you're not doing that anymore,

or if you are,

hey, that's your business,

that's your baby,

and not everybody wants to do that

for you and your passion.

Right?

Ever think MacNeil's

would put on a mobile truck

to do stuff?

There's been conversation

about it.

Let's just say that.

But I'm not the chair leader for it.

Even though I opened up

that can of worms, Jake.

Let's talk about

something else,

about mobile.

What features could this mobile vehicle

be used for in a brick and mortar shop?

Is it all diagnostics?

Is it eight-ass calibrations?

Any thoughts on that?

I've given it some thought.

I don't know that I have the answer.

I mean, things like eight-ass

oftentimes you need low-light conditions

or you need to be able to block the light,

I should say.

So outdoors is really difficult.

So if you've got shops

that have the space that can allow you,

that might work.

And I know there's guys doing it.

So if you're listening to me saying,

well, of course it can be done.

Guys are doing it.

I understand that.

I think it's difficult to do it properly

at 100% of the time.

I think even most of the mobile ones

that I know have to have a location

they can go to for some of those calibrations.

Diagnostics, that might be a thing.

I'll tell you my initial reaction though

is we're going to devalue what we're doing.

If Joe can pull up in his van

and plug in his tool

and 30 minutes in your driveway

tell you what's wrong with it.

What do I owe him?

But at the same time,

I feel like you're going to have to charge more

if you've got that mobile aspect of it.

So I know a lot of them

are doing the light maintenance thing.

And I see the reason for it.

It's a customer.

Man, that'd be nice if I don't have to go stop

and to get my oil changed

or to get my tires rotated or whatever.

But I'm just looking on our end

how difficult it is to do that right

or do that well.

And when you do run into problems,

how do you fix it?

How do you solve that?

It's so worthy of a crazy discussion

because I know guys that do this

and they're successful at it.

But when you think about

to diagnose an issue,

a heavy computer issue,

sensor issue,

a lot of the heavy-end

technology specialists that are out there.

Someone else does the mechanical work.

They just find out what the problem is.

But if you're going out

and you're a high-level technology specialist

and you find this,

you mean that necessarily

want to get the wrenches out

and have that sensor delivered to you

and fix the problem.

Yeah, and I guess there's

two different sides of that too.

If you've got the wholesale guys

doing the testing, the diagnostics

coming to shops and helping them,

yeah, of course, that's an industry

that's doing well and is much needed.

As far as to the general public,

I guess, is where I'm skeptical

that that could work.

I have to agree with you.

So, Jake,

when you look back to the apprentice program

that you worked your butt off

to help develop on your own,

the Napa said,

hey, Jake, what the heck you do in here?

This is great.

And they embrace this

and they're doing so well with it.

Jake, the thing I so worry about

getting our youth to come in,

work with the high school,

so work with the colleges.

I got to tell you,

God bless all the independents

that are getting involved in education,

but there's not enough of us to want it.

No, I think that's the whole point here.

There's two parts, you know,

one, what we've been talking about is

let's not push people out of this industry.

Let's try and retain what we've got.

But the second is we've got to do a better job

of bringing people in

and helping give them that opportunity.

You know, I just recently had

one of the managers at a part-store

that we work with asked me,

hey, my sister is working at a tire store,

wants to get into this industry.

It's all she's ever wanted.

They've been telling her for years

that they've got an opportunity available

for they're going to teach her.

They're going to help train her,

but they never have.

And she says,

what do we have to do to help her

get into an apprenticeship with you guys?

And I said, hey,

give her my number.

Let's talk.

I want to see what's going on.

And about a week later,

I hadn't heard anything.

I said, hey, your sister never reached out.

Do you want to give me her number?

I'd like to talk to her.

And she said, well,

I guess I talked to her and she said,

she's just done with the industry.

She's sick of being told that something's coming

and it never is.

She doesn't want to try again.

She says, I told her that you guys

are different and it'll work,

but she's just done.

And that's one story that I heard.

How many of those are out there?

So if you've got the apprenticeship program

or an apprenticeship program,

remember,

you can't dangle that carrot forever.

Be reasonable and make sure they know.

We tell new applicants all the time.

If we've got one or two in line

to join the apprenticeship,

I make sure they know that.

They're, hey, assuming that it works out with this person

and then this person,

you would be third in line.

And I don't know when those openings come,

but it could be, you know,

six months best case scenario.

It could be a year worst case.

And I want to make sure you understand that.

So the nine months,

you're not saying, hey, you guys lied

or you held this dangle,

this carrot out there,

and it never came.

Be honest and transparent with these people,

but make sure it's a reasonable timeframe too.

The complication, I think,

from many shop owners that have not jumped into apprenticesing

is,

while at the end of this run,

I may not have a position.

You've got to have the facility,

the space,

the revenue,

the action

to bring in an apprentice.

Let's ask ourselves a hypothetical question.

How many shops in America?

Let's say there's 250,000 independents.

Shouldn't there be a hundred thousand people

going through an apprentice program?

If we literally care about growing our business

and staying ahead of a curve?

Yeah.

I mean, remember,

this thing doesn't build that person for you tomorrow.

It's, you know, most programs

are going to be somewhere in that two-year range.

So you're feeling that pipeline,

but I would say how many shops

haven't needed a technician

over the last ten years.

You know, can you say there was a time

where there was a year

where you just didn't need anybody

and if the right person came knocking on your door,

you wouldn't have hired them.

I'm guessing most are going to say

they would have hired the right person

if they came along at any time.

So start prepping today

so that, you know, two years from now,

you've got that person.

Jake, I think of the word incubate.

It's a crazy word, Jake,

but that's what you're really doing

with a long-term apprentice program.

You're incubating your future.

You're creating.

You're building.

And you're showing them your environment,

getting them prepared for your environment.

These people are made for your shop

when it's done.

What else is on your mind?

The only other that I think is more important

than is often realized

is the continued training.

You know, one thing that we've seen as well

is we'll get some of these guys

that either have been through our apprenticeship program

or maybe came to us with a couple of certifications

a few years of experience

and we help them advance

and eventually get to, let's say,

the master ASC master status, right?

A lot of them at that point go,

well, what's next?

You know, what do I do now?

I feel like training,

continuing education is so important.

And I know you're going to have a lot of your guys,

a lot of your employees are going to say,

I don't need it or I don't want it

or whatever that is,

but you've got to push them to do that.

That's what's going to help keep them in this industry.

I hear it all the time that,

hey, cars are so complicated

and they're evolving so rapidly

and every year they're more difficult to repair,

to diagnose,

but then the same people are telling me

that don't go to any continued training.

They aren't learning anymore.

So I've got to tell you,

it's one or the other, right?

Either these things are getting more complicated.

They're more difficult

and you've got to keep up on this technology

and you need to go to training to stay up on it.

Or if you don't need that training,

if you don't need to continue learning,

then these things aren't that difficult, right?

I mean, I don't know how you can fight both sides of that.

So I'm a big proponent of training,

keeping our guys engaged.

One thing we're working on right now

is trying to figure out a way that we can do

in-house training during the day

because you know,

put yourself in their shoes.

You work that long day in the shop,

beating your head against these difficult cars

and then at 6 p.m. to 9 p.m. whatever it is,

you're supposed to go to a hotel,

you know, 30 minutes from the shop,

eat some cold pizza,

listen to this training,

and then drive home,

get home at maybe 10 o'clock,

try and shower,

change, go to bed,

get back up and go to work the next day.

Do you want to do that?

I mean,

I know we've all done it

and we can,

but it's not enjoyable.

It's not something

these people want to do

or anybody wants to do.

That's what we're working on right now.

The problem is,

the classes aren't offered

during the day,

oftentimes, you know,

because a lot of shops don't want to do that.

So, we're working on in-house

during the day.

Okay.

Thank you for letting me think this through

in these very single minutes

that you brought this up.

When I think about shops closing down

and taking a very large portion of their teams

to a vision, for example,

to an Asta,

they're pulling three days worth of

potential productivity.

Could be one, could be two,

depends on how many days that they're open.

They invest a lot of money,

a lot of my airfare hotel,

food, all that stuff,

and the cost of the training.

If you closed down

once every three months

at noon on a particular day,

didn't book anything for that,

make sure that your clients

who care about your access

and availability knew this.

And you didn't have the airfare.

Maybe you had the airfare for the trainer to come in

and I believe you could find a trainer

that will fly in

and do just about anything for you,

hotel, boom, food.

It's going to cost you,

I don't know,

maybe a grand or two.

I don't know.

But it's not going to cost you anywhere near

when you shut down.

So what's wrong with daytime-based training,

even if it's noon or if it's the whole damn day?

If it's three times a year,

four times a year,

maybe add up how many hours that is

and you see that upon the continuing

education process for all of your people,

I talked to these top guys.

I've heard Matt's podcasts

with these top diet guys.

They've never stopped learning.

They thrive on finding out

new things and staying on the edge.

And they're cocky about their abilities

but they're also humble

when it comes that they're constantly having to learn.

Which is, you said the right words

because training, we train dogs

and athletes, we educate people.

And so you said the right words,

continuing education.

And that's what I think helps people understand.

We're not sending you to training class,

we're sending you to continuing education,

perpetual.

And maybe this concept

of in-house,

and again remember,

we've done shows on three or four guys

in a town get together

and split the cost of this trainer.

And they all do the same thing.

I'm telling you, I think you have something here.

Yeah, however you have to do it.

I'll tell you, it's just one of those things

where, for years, we've said,

well, that's when the training is, you know,

it sucks and we complain about it.

But we're finally at the point.

And this is where I think you have to be with most things.

We're finally at the point where we say,

okay, well, how do we fix it?

Instead of complaining about it, what's the answer?

And so that's what we're working on

is what day of the week is it going to be?

How often is it going to be?

It's going to be a down for half a day.

And we're going to have all of our guys there learning

and hopefully lighting that fire to want to learn more.

Amazing to have an in-house trainer

that you can also be doing hands-on

and learning at that same time.

And this scope says this,

and this pattern is about that.

And it's interactive,

instead of being sage on the stage,

and you're just there at night,

falling asleep after you had, you know,

double cheese pizza.

Yeah, and it's with the equipment

that you have available in your shop.

You go to an event.

They might be talking about using, you know,

this brand of scope,

and you're going, well,

I've got this other brand.

I hope my guys really understand the differences,

and they might not.

But if it's in your shop,

hey, well, let's use our scope right now.

Let's figure out how ours functions.

I'm just assuming if you pick up the phone

and you call Mr. Rainey and said,

listen, I need a trainer in here on this particular day,

they just probably would show up with bells on.

We're working on some stuff on that end,

but I want top quality training

in our shop during the day.

That's my goal.

Edavoy.

All right, there's the trend

that we're going to keep an eye on this, Jake.

All right.

Can't wait.

Jake Sorenson,

McNeil's AutoCare, Sandy Utah,

the 2019 NEPA ASE

Technician of the Year,

the 2019 Ratchet and Render All Start Technician of the Year,

and my friend,

and I appreciate you being here,

and thanks for all your incredible wisdom, Jake.

Thank you, Karma.

I always enjoy talking to you.

Me too.

Have a blast.

Stretching my think.

Thanks for being on board

to listen and learn

from the premier automotive aftermarket podcast.

Until next time.

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