Building Better Collision Technicians in the Classroom

I try to teach with kindness and one of my sayings at school is fail.

We learn more from failure than we learn from getting it right the first time.

Today on Beyond the Wrench, we're talking with an educator who's making a real impact on how

the next generation discovers careers in collision repair.

Our guest is Jessica Weaver, an auto body collision technology instructor at Dakota

County Technical College in Minnesota.

We recently shared Jessica's story on Wrenchway, highlighting how she used school assist to

connect with a local high school and bring real-world collision repair into the classroom.

What started as a simple request from another instructor turned into an opportunity to show

students what this career can truly look like through hands-on demonstrations, honest

conversations, and a clear pathway from education to industry.

We're going to talk about that in a bunch of other things.

I think we're going to probably solve all of the world's problems today.

Jessica, welcome to the show.

How are you doing?

I'm good.

Thank you.

Good.

Well, thank you for joining me.

As Jessica and I talked about before we hit record, we're all in a Arctic breeze

right now.

She's in Minnesota, we're in Wisconsin, and I think we compared temps.

We're right around the negative 17 mark, I want to say right now, 16, somewhere in that

red.

At that point, it doesn't matter.

Oh, the windshield gets you.

I think my phone said negative 22 with the windshield right now.

Why did our ancestors come here?

That seems, in the middle of winter, that seems it's aggressively cold.

Yeah, you go outside and you go, why does it hurt?

And you did something interesting with your children today, to kind of explore the cold.

Yeah, the thing where you take the boiling water outside and throw it, and it went over

as good as it should have with the video game that we have nowadays, they walked out

and they were really excited.

I was like, we're going to do this cool thing and I amped them up and they looked

at it and went, wow.

Can we go back in?

Yeah.

Okay.

I thought it was cool, but it doesn't compare to all the flashing lights on your screens.

As a parent of an eight, almost nine year old, I get that feedback disappointment from

my son at times where I think something's really cool and then I'll share that with

him and he'll just kind of, doesn't roll his eyes, but the unintentional sarcasm

in his voice when he says, oh, that is cool and then walks away and never brings it up

again.

You're like, I felt like it was a little cooler than that, but apparently not.

I think I've gotten past that cool stage a long time ago.

Yeah, my kid at my youngest, he's five.

He asked me this morning, what's your favorite movie?

Let's watch your favorite movie.

And the first one that popped in my head was the labyrinth, the one with David

Bowie in there.

He stood at that screen like this, just horror the whole time.

And at the end of it, I was like, did you like it?

And he's like, yeah, yeah, whatever the pause comes into play that you know,

you're like, Hey, I don't know if you did.

Yeah, I don't.

I try.

You tried.

Well, you're doing even doing that experiment this morning.

Pretty cool of you to do.

And I think it's one of those things where maybe your kids will look back

someday and be like, that was actually pretty cool.

I think we've all done that with our parents, too, where they've done

something that at the time probably didn't seem all that that cool or memorable.

But then you look back many years later and say, yeah, that was actually pretty

awesome. Yeah, for sure.

All right.

Well, let's talk about your journey into the industry.

I talked about it in the intro.

I love your background and how you got here and to the point to where we're

talking today, your education style as we talked in the in our pre-meeting was

I just get the sense that you're really easy to relate to with kids and with

young people in general.

I think that goes such a long way in getting their attention long enough to

be able to teach them something.

So that that personality side, I think really stuck out to me early on.

But I do want to talk about the the the the rising of you and really how

you got into this career field.

Did you start off wanting to do collision or when did that really kind

of click with you that this was something that you wanted to pursue?

Yeah, when I was in high school, it was so my dad, God love him, a

little accident prone.

And so when I was growing up, I remember him calling me and being like,

you got to come pick me up or you got to take me to the emergency room or to

the doctor.

And the one that sticks out a lot was the anesthetic.

He tried to chop his finger off.

I say that he'd say different.

Maybe he took a band saw to the finger and it went right across.

So I'm up and I don't know if they allow it anymore, but they

allowed me to stay in there and watch the whole thing.

And so I watched them put the nerve block in and I just thought

it was the coolest thing.

So I wanted to be an anesthesiologist.

I was like, I want to do the nerve blocks.

I want to be that guy.

My dad thought it was great.

My mom thought that was awesome doctor in the family.

And then I crashed my car and my dad and I had an agreement.

He funded my money for the car and he goes, you break it, you fix it.

And so, you know, 16 year old me was going oil changes and tires.

And that's not a big deal.

And then I crashed it into a tree and he went fix it and went, what?

And I had, it was a 1987 Thunderbird that I crashed into a tree.

You know, we're wheel drive.

They're heavy and I put it right in the ditch in the middle of winter.

I had no business driving that thing in the winter, but I did.

And I pulled it into the garage.

I remember doing the most horrible body work you've ever seen with no, no guidance.

And I was like, ooh, this is really fun.

And so I took an Otto's class and my Otto's teacher, I showed up in a skirt and he was

like, you can't wear that.

And I'm like, okay.

And then I started to answering questions.

I remember him saying, what is the opposite of exhaust?

And I went, um, what did I say?

And I can't remember exactly, but it wasn't.

He was nothing but a stupid girl.

And I go, oh, you're going to change that for me, right?

And I, and he had that wow moment for a second.

And, um, I'll never forget the look on his face when I shot back at him.

And from there, I started doing body work and I corrected a little bit of

my really bad body work as I went into college.

And actually the guy that taught me body work in college, uh, he called me up

over the years and his name's Scott Logan, wonderful man.

He's like, Hey, I think there's something to you teaching.

You should teach for me in 10 years when I retire.

And when you're in your mid 20s, 10 years is a long time.

And so I was like, yeah, sure, whatever.

And then, uh, five years later, he's like, Hey, come substitute for me.

So I did a little subbing here and there.

And, um, when he finally retired, finally, after 10 years, it went by quick.

Uh, but I ended up interviewing, getting the job and working with, now I'm

working with the person that taught me my second year of college and he getting

to know him as an instructor.

And then now as my partner is amazing.

And he has been one of the best people I could have ever asked

to train me to do this job.

I want to call something out there that you said that I think says so much

about you as a person, which was when the teacher comes to you and says,

you're nothing but a stupid girl and you say, well, you're going to change

that, right?

And almost like with some, I'm sure with some level of sarcasm or like

just in general, I just love that response.

Because how many people, not only females, like we see this all the time

across our industry, but how many people would have just folded then, right?

And just said, yeah, this isn't for me, but your approach in almost

like laughing it, not laughing it off, but just being like, well,

you're going to change that, right?

Like I, when you said that, I was just like, what a, what a cool

way to approach that, like in very witty on your end.

Oh, I try to be.

I'm not always, but like I had another guy when I was probably

mid twenties ish and I was training in the field.

I worked for a job or company called Blue Rock and I like to say they

helped form me and a lot of my ideals.

My boss had a lot of really great sayings when I worked there that

I stick with me today, but I remember I had a painter and I was

probably 24, 25 and I was supposed to train him on this new product.

And he had had 40 years in the business.

And I was kind of guiding him, not the way he wanted to.

And he goes, I've spilt more paint on my boots than you've ever put on a car.

And I go, oh, let's teach you waste management then.

He didn't like it.

It was, it was really quick.

And he goes, I need to talk to your boss.

And I was like, oh, okay.

And I called him and he goes conveniently I'm in the parking lot

and they talked it out.

It ended up being it was fine.

That guy apologized probably two weeks later and said, actually, I think

I can learn from you and we ended up being really good friends thereafter.

But it was it was one of those moments where I was like, ah, is today

the day I'm getting fired.

But I think it's an important lesson there in that there's a fine line

where I think when you're a young person coming into this

industry, you're you're you're trying to find your way.

And at some level, it can be easy to be pushed over and just constantly

like you have that experience tech that's just going to say, go away.

I don't want to deal with you.

But then at the same time, you have to hold your own.

But then also if you hold your own, then you might be perceived

as they don't listen, they're not listening to what I'm saying.

And so, you know, I think what you were able to do there is walk that

line maybe with some confidence and be able to have kind of a witty

rebuttal where again, I think a lot of young people will take that

and and kind of put their head down and walk out the door, right?

Where you and that's anger.

Yeah.

Yeah, there's a lot of emotions tied to that for a young person

coming into this industry, let alone being a female coming into

the industry, like there there's just that's what when I look at

that, I'm like, you should almost write a playbook of comebacks

because apparently you're filled with all kinds of them that

those, those are the

but but it is important for any young person that's listening

to this to kind of keep that in mind that you have to be

mindful that there is this fine line, but you also don't want

to be a pushover.

You don't want to be perceived as a no at all and and being able

to kind of walk that line.

And if you can do that, you're going to get a lot further, a

lot faster, I feel like maybe I'm maybe I'm overstating that,

but I do feel like there's a there's an interesting dynamic

there.

Yeah, you I learned very early on because I've gotten

yelled at and it's like when I when you get yelled at, it's

it's really disheartening, but you and you walk away with your

head down.

Yeah, but I learned that a good approach to somebody that does

know what they're talking about and you're coming in as a

young person into the field and you I learned you're not

supposed to go, hey, you're doing that wrong.

They don't like that.

It was I learned ways to make my ideas theirs and be like, hey,

so I can you tell me what you're doing?

And they'd walk me through it and be like, have I'm just

coming up with this.

No, it wasn't preplanned.

But have you ever tried doing it this way?

And we'll talk it through and make it more of a

conversation instead of telling somebody you're doing it

wrong.

I've learned that doing it wrong is the way we learn to do it

right in the first place.

And so making things people's ideas, that's a really good

way to help those people that don't like being told what to

do.

And it applies with students sometimes, too, because I do

have some of those students that'll be like, no, no,

that'll never work.

And I'll go, really?

Okay.

But moving them in that direction with kindness, you know,

there's that age old saying you get more bees with honey.

And so I try to teach with kindness.

And I one of my sayings at school is fail.

We learn more from failure than we learn from getting

it right the first time.

My students are probably sick of hearing me say, you

didn't learn to walk the first time you tried, you fell

down, you made that mistake, but then you tried again.

So when they're coming back to me going, I can't do it.

And I go, how many times did you try?

It's one.

Maybe one more.

Well, I think you hear that commonly in shops, too, the

frustration with a young person trying it once it didn't

work. And really, maybe the lack of thinking through what

might fix that is a challenge that shops have.

And I so I applaud you for pushing your students to

kind of think through it a little bit more, because I

do think there are times, too, with a young tech where you

can easily get in the trap of anytime something starts to

go wrong, you're immediately going and asking somebody.

And I think that is when it becomes an annoyance for that

experience tech that's in the shop, if they're, if they're, you

know, oh my gosh, this person, they're not even trying, like

they're, they're, they're making a half hearted attempt at being

able to fix this. And now they're pulling me away from what's

making me a living to be able to help them. I think when

it's good questions that you're going to that

experience tech with or your manager or whoever, then it

doesn't seem like an annoyance. You know, you've

tried maybe several different things and you're trying to

approach them and say, Hey, I've tried this, I've tried this.

And this didn't work. You know, I feel like I'm making

progress. If you can go to that person with good questions

rather than just kind of putting some effort into it and

then saying, ah, I can't do it. And then going off, I

think that's when the others in the shop get frustrated.

Yes, I absolutely agree with that one. So I mentioned

Blue Rock where I used to work before. Well, Bruce had this

saying, I told you, you know, a lot of them and one of my

favorites and I tell my students is we solve problems. So

that's kind of his motto over there. But I took that from

Bruce and he would, it was, I don't want to hear your

problems. I want to hear your solutions. And so when I'm

training my students, I say, don't go to your boss, don't

go to your mentor with problems, come to them with

solutions to your problems. So where you can say, here's

the problem I'm facing. And here's how I tried to fix it.

Here's how I think I'm supposed to, um, and give them some

ideas, give your boss guidance so that you're not

because anybody can present a problem. It takes a really

talented person to present solutions to their problems

and gets them thinking. So I love going to my students

and I ask them their questions back every time. So

they'll be like, what grit am I supposed to use right

now? What are you supposed to use? And they'll answer and

I go, I'll like, guide him maybe, maybe a different higher

grit, lower grit and until they, this happened yesterday

with one student, he's like, what grit do you want me to

use? And I go, what do you think I should, you should

use? And he goes, 80 and I go, I'm maybe higher? 180?

A little too aggressive there. Yeah. A little more and

he'll go like 220 and I go, perfect, I knew you'd get

there. When I guide with humor, I think it sticks a

little bit better. Sure. And when they get to answer their

own questions, and be a part of their own solutions, that

helps a lot.

Well, you're, you're helping kind of build some

confidence and help them when they do get to where

they're working professionally, that they can answer some

of those simple questions themselves, or maybe they can

go find some resource, you know, there's more resources now

available to be able to look up technical data, for

example, than there ever had been when we were growing

up. And so I think there, there are resources out

there. I think the other element to this, in I'm

kind of almost segueing that into shop life is that a

lot of times I feel like a lot of kids will put undue

pressure on themselves to get a job done in a certain

amount of time. I do put some blame on industry a little

bit there. But I remember feeling that as a young

technician where I went from tech school into a shop and

hear a lot about pay plans and how you need to be

turning time and that kind of thing. And then

ultimately, when you get in there, you're probably in

my experience. Anyways, I was almost more focused on

that part than I was the quality of the repair. And

looking back, I'm like, I just wish I would have taken a

little bit more time to do it the right way or understand

it the right way in order to truly understand it

because I do think there's that that flipping of the

switch effect where when you do when it clicks, all

the sudden, the next time you do it, it is going

to be better. And if you're just trying to beat

time as a young tech, I feel like you're doing

yourself a disservice because you're not truly

understanding the fundamentals of doing the job

itself.

Right, I have that's kind of something I'm fighting

right now with a couple of my students. I think it's

great where they have to right now that told me my

failing because I it took me, you know, a week and a

half to fix this nine hour debt that you gave me

and I give them real world dens. I'm not saying like

if this takes an average if I would give this when

I'm estimating in a shop nine hours, that's what

I do in the shop too. So I'm not, I'm not sugar

coating anything, but it will take them a long

time. They have 255 hours through the semester to

do 80 hours between paint and body. So 40 hours of

paint, 40 hours of body work. And when they're

like, Ah, I mean, I've been working on this

for days, do I have enough time and I go,

you have plenty of time and not everybody will get

all of those hours. But we focus on quality over

quantity. And I'll sugar coat some of those hours

if they've really put an effort in and and worked

hard for that quality versus that quantity because

we don't I'm not trying to be known for the

teacher that turns out students that go, good

enough, give me a ball scene. I'm like, go

and when they when they say to me, is it good

enough? I say, well, any time you have to ask me

good enough, we know it's not.

Oh, I love that part too. I think a lot of

managers listening to this could also say the

same thing. Is this good enough to ship? If you

have to ask that question, you probably already

know the answer. You just want to make it

my problem.

Oh, it's not great.

If you're an automotive diesel or collision

instructor, or an educator helping students

explore these careers, this is for you. Building

relationships with local shops takes time. And

knowing who's willing to help isn't always

clear. ASC connects in partnership with

Wrenchway brings schools and industry together

on one easy online platform at no cost for

schools. At the heart of ASC connects is

school assist, the online resource that lets

you post exactly what your program needs from

guest speakers, shop tours, tools, advisory

committee members, career fair participants

and even student job opportunities. Shops

can see your requests and respond directly

to you. You'll also get access to

instructor focused resources, webinars and

templates designed to save time and strengthen

industry partnerships. Even if your school

doesn't have a formal auto or diesel program,

you can still participate to help connect

interested students with real world

opportunities. ASC connects is free for

schools. Get started at wrenchway.com

slash solutions slash schools or use the

link in the show notes.

Talk to me a little bit about the importance

of curriculum. I know as we talked before,

you had gone through and kind of completely

redid your curriculum. And we talked through

the amount of time that takes and how labor

intensive that side is. Walk me through that

piece of like what what drives your

curriculum? What drove maybe you to want

to change your curriculum? I know that's

a broad question, but I do want to walk

through that piece a little bit.

Well, I mean, it took me almost three

years to get my other curriculum down

the way that I wanted it. And I went to

this training that we do in the with

teachers in the summer. It's called MTTIA.

It's a Midwest thing where teachers get

together from all over the place and we

learn. And a man named Justin with iCar

came in and he was like, I got the world

solutions. Well, I struggled with it a

little bit because I had my own

curriculum. And you know when you it's

kind of baby. Yeah. And when somebody

comes in and says I've got your I got

the solution to all your problems,

you're like, mmm. And so I fought it

a little bit. But it this iCar

curriculum did it there is something to

it. There is really good information in

there. And so I ended up not ditching

all of my old but kind of going through

and seeing where I could marry the two

and make them make sense.

So we talk about curriculum and so

much of it, I think is focused on the

actual development of coming up with

the actual content that you're going

to put out to the students. How much

of it is the preparation side of like

understanding the curriculum that you're

about to teach and being able like with

the shift to the iCar curriculum or the

elements of that, like truly understanding

that piece and then really being able

to smoothly articulate that to your

students. So I would say years, years,

I mean, you don't get to just be a

teacher by reading a book, right? I

was in the industry for 18 years

before I took this job and painting

cars and doing body work, estimating

all of this stuff in between. And so

you kind of have to know how to get

there anyways and be able to debut

those skills off to students. But

then doing the curriculum part, it

was years of reading through. I've

got four books that I took from all

these different makers and experts in

the field writing through these

books. And I took that deep dive into

why it happens, how it happens, so that

I can articulate to my students the

house because not everybody learns

the same, right? So I would say

years of reading and actually

applying it before even taking this

job. It's a lot of extra time.

But now that I've kind of got

everything built, even just jumping

into the iCar side of it, I've

already got all the information there.

So realistically, what I do with them

is they have their academy and I put

their slideshows on mute. And I have

all of my students follow along with

me on their own computers so that they

can get the credit for it. We

answer the questions together. And

when it's on mute, they've already

told me, you talk way more than

what the videos do. But I'm taking

that deeper dive and with all the

learning styles that we have in

there, it can't just be that little

bit of information because I'm trying

to articulate to this type of learner

and that one over there and make sure

that everybody understands at the end

of it. And at the end of each slide,

I give them the opportunity to say,

did anything confuse you? How can

I clear this up for you? And if

nobody's, everybody's on the same

page and they can answer those

questions, I'll maybe ask my own

questions to make sure they're not

getting lost or distracted by the

guy sitting next to him. Yeah. So it

does take in videos that might take

them 10, 15 minutes on their own are

taking me an hour to an hour and a

half to get through and just deeper

dive into all of those things. Oh my

goodness. I you talk about meeting a

student where they're at in terms of

their learning style. And I think

I shared with you, I've had that

experience on the student. And when

I was coming up that there were a lot

of teachers that I couldn't relate to

and a lot of teachers were very rigid

in the way they taught and you had

to follow kind of their laws of how

they taught. It wasn't until much

later in life when I was taking, I

was a factory rep for a construction

equipment company. And I, they had

a teacher that was teaching that they

had hired to teach advanced

diagnostics. And I don't know what

it was about this teacher, but his

teaching style just like clicked with

me and some of the stuff that seems

so hard in the past, just like all the

sudden connected. And I was like, I

think I saw the power of communication

and good communication with an

educator through that in my own

experience and the power of being

able to meet a student where they're

at can make all the difference in

their life. I mean, that is so

impactful for you to kind of hunt

that out and look for those

different ways to maybe make

something work with a student.

Yeah, it's, it's important. I

think along like back when I was

learning or whatever it was, you

learn what I teach you. But now

my approach to it is I'm being

paid to teach you. I'm also

being paid to assess you. So if

with all the different learning

styles that I'm attacking over

there, if you're not getting it,

it's on you because I'll come in to

some students and I'll verbalize it

with them and say, All right, we're

going to imagine this together. And

I have those students that are

very imaginative that can like build

that in their head and they're

going to go, Okay, I got it. And

then I if that doesn't work, I'll

go, Okay, we're going to do this

together. We have those monkey see

monkey do I get to be monkey do

when you get to be monkey see

will do that. And then I have the

other ones that need play to

learn. I just did this yesterday

with a student. He's like, I hate

guide code. Hate it won't use it.

And I go, Oh, you have to use

that because he also can't feel

the wobbles in there. And so he's

like, I don't understand how it

works. It makes no sense to me.

So I went out over and grabbed

what I call the sandbox. It's

full of sandblasting media. And I

laid that out flat. And I and I

hold up little mounds on there.

And then I have two different

sandblasting media is one in tan

and one in black. So I sprinkled

the tan stuff over the top of

the black. And we started playing

in that media together. And

leveling off the top and talking

it through and how that guide

code is helping you see those

high and low spots. And I

watched him go, Oh, okay. And

then he ran off to go play

with his, his foot that he was

sanding on. There's you just

kind of have to understand your

student and who you're talking

to. And the same with I had

another student this in the

same day, we're talking about

colors and how they lay out in

the metallics. He's like, Well,

why is this one darker than

this one when the same color?

And so we grabbed out a

handful of quarters and we were

throwing them on the ground and

then throwing some rocks down

and showing how when, when

you lay up those quarters on

different angles, and it's really

fun to see the kids that

actually play to learn to come

back and they light up and they

go, Okay, I got it. No, go away.

So like, I got it now. And

that's how did you get that

ability? I mean, is that

something that comes naturally

for you where you are really

showing those visuals in a

way to make that click?

Because I do think that it

would be so helpful for so

many people even experienced

people in our field to get

visuals of why something works

or maybe just trying to get

something to to make that

connection in a brain that they

wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

Is that something that you

felt come like comes natural to

you? Or was that something you

had to learn?

I think maybe both. I think

there's because there's

moments where I'll be like

trying to explain something.

I'm like, Oh, this isn't

working. They're that in the

same boat, they're going

that you're, it's not working

the way that I'm talking it

through. And then I have to

sit down and like, be like,

Okay, give me a minute to

just figure out how I can

show you with things that we

have around here. And it

may take a little time

sometimes, but I, I think I

learned that from I actually

had a 3m rep who was he made

a play thing at one of my

trainings where he took, he

was talking about adhesives

versus welding and fusion

and metal. He took little

Post-it notes and staples and

he did the adhesive sides of

those Post-it notes together.

And so he we're pulling

those apart. And then when

you do adhesives with

spot welds, and so he put

staples in there and was

just showing the different

strengths and

Oh, that's a great idea.

And oh, it was amazing. And

now I stole it. Just if he

ever sees it, I did it.

I think that's a that's a

form of flattery, right? If

you're taking something from

Yeah.

But it really I found that it

helped me with, I mean, I

understood it before, but it

was one of those moments

where I was like, Okay, this

is a really good way to put

play in the into our learning

styles. And so after that,

that clicking moment for me

is we need to play more. The

students need to touch things

to be able to learn this

sometimes, especially with

those play based learners.

They're I mean, even at 18 and

25, and I have some students

that were in their 60s last

year. And I was going to

say 42 play based learners.

I got, like I said, I got

these little kids run around

downstairs and their play based

learners too. And so I think

maybe that helped the

intuitiveness of let's get you

guys touching and feeling and

maybe comparing something that

isn't what we're doing to

something that is just like the

post it notes or playing in

the sand, we're not sand isn't

metal, but there's kind of

that same movement.

You hit on a point there that

I think a lot of people could

learn from myself included on

the power of just taking a

step back in thinking about

that communication style or

strategy because I think I'm

this way I know a lot of

other people are that when

you communicate something and

they're not understanding it,

you're kind of almost putting

it on their shoulders of like,

why aren't you understanding

this? Why can't you

understand? And for me, I'm

very much a visionary type of

person. So to get what's out

of my head and try to get it

to an understandable level to

the other person can be

challenging at times. And for

me, I think one of my

challenges is that I'm always

rushing. I'm always like running

and running and running and

going to the next thing, going

to the next thing and the

power and just being able to

take a step back. And even

if it's your own problem and

analyze the problem and kind

of try to truly understand

where the problem lies in

something like communication is

really powerful. And so I

love the approach that you have

there of taking that step back

and then trying to really figure

out a different way of going

about it. And rather than pin

the blame on the other person,

you almost kind of take that on

your own shoulders of how can I

communicate this better in a

way that they're going to

understand? I just absolutely

love the way you approach

that. Yep, that's that whole

problem and solution thing. I

can't I can present anybody

with a problem. Let's solve

it because if as soon as you're

saying it's your problem, you're

not understanding me. Nope, I'm

going to come up with that

solution.

This is good stuff. I'm

learning all kinds of stuff

here. That's your one heck of

an educator. Now, it's funny

because I the way that I got

to know you was because we

had done our marketing team

had done a story on you

going and talking to a high

school. And the first time

I read it, I was like, how

cool is it that somebody from

the technical school would want

to get involved with the high

school in a way that's helping

the high school educator? I

think it helps grow that

relationship between the high

school and the tech school.

I'm a huge believer in that

that we need to do more of

that. But when you go and

you're you're talking to

probably younger students, then

you're like it's not much

of a day age difference, but

there is a little bit of an

age difference there. It's

very small. Yeah, very, very

small. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, a

couple of years a year. But

it I think is really impactful

for the tech school because

you get exposure to your

program. It's very impactful

for the high school because

you help get some education

that you might be more

specialized on than they are

or it's just a different voice

coming in the room at times.

I think that's helpful in

general. But what drove you

to want to have that

conversation in the first place

because be honest, there's not

a lot of folks in the tech

ed side or the technical

education tech college side

that are coming into a tech

ed program and doing that.

And I'm like, I think we're

missing a huge opportunity

here by not doing more of

that.

Yeah. So if I'm understanding

you're asking like, why

is a terrible question?

Why did I get it?

So I am a firm

believer in asking for

everything. And I do because

if you don't ask, the answers

already know. So like, I can

be like, hey, Jay, can I have

10 bucks? If I don't ask you,

the answer is already no.

So going into wrench way, I'm

asking for everything. But

here's the thing. If

everybody's only asking,

there's no one to give it

back. So when you like, I'm

going, hey, I'm asking for

all this stuff, I'm going

to have to give back to in

one way. And so when I saw his

post saying, hey, I need a

female in the industry

coming in and talking to some

of my young women, seeing if

we can get some of that

interest going, or even what

was your experience in there?

I was like, well, I fit the

bill. I'm not an industry

partner anymore, but a

teacher, would you like me

to do this? He's like, yes,

absolutely. So being able

to give when I ask for

everything. I asked for so much.

I'll give back to as much as I

can. That that asking part,

though, I think is also very

important. You mentioned

asking for everything.

I think a lot of educators

are afraid to do that, right?

Where they are afraid to lean

on their industry partners,

unless they're in a state of

absolute desperation. And I

think it really hurts a lot of

programs by that instructor

not asking for things, right?

Because if it is,

you know, I go to a lot of

advisory committee meetings

and some of them can have

some fluff, right? Where

they're maybe not talking

about the true

maybe issues of the school

or they're, you know,

just trying to kind of go

through curriculum, show the

stats show, you know, and

then you eat lunch and

you're done. And at times it

kind of feels like you're

almost in like a Groundhog Day

type of scenario where you're

kind of going to the same

meeting over and over and over

again. The most

effective ones. And I was

just that one not too long

ago where it truly was

conversations about what the

school needed. And I think

in a lot of ways, the

instructors need to feel safe

enough to be able to ask

for the things. I don't know

that everybody has that

inherent ability that you do

to just ask for things.

And when they do that, they're

they're really, I think, punishing

the program by not asking for

those things. And really, even

with Wrenchway, that was a big

reason we did the school

assist thing was that a lot of

the teacher feedback we got was

that anytime they needed

anything, they felt like they

were having the cold call

their Excel spreadsheet list

of all of the shops that were

on their advisory committee.

And we're like, it should be

easier than that. There needs

to be a more streamlined

process to this. And so

your approach there of

not being afraid to ask, I

think is really impactful to

your school, to your program

because you are bringing

additional resources to

the program that are going to

help. And in our experience,

there are so many shops that

want to help out, they just

aren't good at being able to

drive that communication.

You've done it as good as

anybody. So I just wanted to

give you a compliment there,

but then also talk a little

bit about the power of

asking, because I think

you're, you're unique in that

regard.

Well, if it's kind of like, if

you don't know, I need that

$10. We'll talk later.

But if you don't know that I

have a need, you're not

going to just offer it,

right? So when we do our

advisory meetings, I find

them very fun. We talk.

It's, it's very

friendly in our advisory

board is just an amazing

group of people. We go in

and we discuss it can't be

just that rose it over where

you're saying how great

everything is. Our advisory

board relies on us to turn

out their future

technicians, right? So they're

coming in and going, what are

the needs here? What are we

seeing? So we ask them, what

are you seeing out of our

students? What do we need to

do better for you? And when

it gets that, that

conversation is going. So

when they say, well, just

this is a hypothetical, it's

not a real world. But if they

were to say, hey, you know,

your students aren't welding

well, they're just not. We can

say, okay, how can, how can

we as a group fix this

problem? And so my advisory

board, I can say, can we

have students come out and

talk to some of your

technicians, can your

technicians come in? Or

kids, we don't have enough

welders or our welders are

breaking down. So we're not

using world real world

situations over here.

One of the things that we've

done recently was we just

got an ADOS calibration

system. Nice. So it's brand

new to us. We don't know how

to use it yet, right? And so

we we're sitting there

talking, we're like, great.

And it was actually donated

to us by some of our

advisory advisory members,

this system. And so now

we're like, okay, now we

we need to be trained, the

students need to be

trained. And we asked them,

okay, great, thank you for

helping us acquire this

piece of equipment. Who can

train us? And they're like,

okay, we they gave us a list

of contacts. And so then when

I do the recap and send out

an email saying this is what

we talked about. By the way,

you did say there was some

contacts that you had, can

anybody send those back over

to us that we can reach out

and do field trips? And so

I think there is an etiquette

in how you ask it's not

just this is what our needs

are. But saying, what do you

need? So then how can we, how

can we work together so that

everybody's needs are

actually met? I can always

tell when somebody's got a

strong advisory committee

versus when they don't. And I

think a lot of it is in

conversation with the shop

that's out there. And, you

know, I had heard a lot over

the course of my career,

well, I won't hire anybody

from that tech school because

they've only turned out bad

students. And I'm like, you're

putting every person that

comes out of that program into

one bucket, like one, you

shouldn't do that. But then

two, that just tells me you

are so disconnected from the

school that you don't know

what their problems are.

You're not willing to help.

You're putting all of the

expectation on the school alone

which in my eyes is

completely unfair. And I

think when you see a strong

advisory committee or just

strong industry partnerships

in general, where you have

people that are willing to come

help out and are willing to

put, you know, time into

going and doing a skills USA

event or doing something

that might be outside of

the typical ask of the

school, I think doing

exactly the same thing you

were talking about is what

these shops need to learn as

well, which is you're going

to ask for a lot as a shop.

I'm going to ask for quality

students coming out of that

program and we do want them

to be as productive as they

can as soon as they can.

But I also am going to offer

a lot of stuff to you and try

to make it and make your life

better. And that's what a good

partnership looks like, right?

If I'm going to make your life

easier and you're going to

make my life easier.

That's when those

conversations do get fun and

they do get a lot more

transparent. But if as

industry, you go into that

meeting and you're just

pointing at the school for

all their shortcomings

and or vice versa, if the

school is looking at industry

and saying, you guys aren't

helping us out at all.

I think there's a lot of value

in looking in the mirror and

saying, OK, what what can we

do different in our approach

here to maybe from the

school's end, get more

support or from industry's

end? How do we give more

support to the school?

Because ultimately that's

going to end up with us

having a better relationship

with the school, which will

then end up with more

students in our in our

shop. So I just from afar,

that's one of the things I'll

get off my soapbox here, but

that's one of those things

that are is really maybe

I'm looking at it to high

level here. But every single

advisory committee meeting

I've been to the great ones

are awesome. The bad ones

are pretty bad. And there's

like trying to get everybody

in a room rowing in the

same direction, having the

same goals in mind and

really wanting to support

each other. It just makes

business more fun. It makes

partnerships more fun when

everybody's kind of trying to

make the situation better.

Yeah, I mean, everybody out

there is not doing this for

their health. They're right.

We're trying to make money.

And so at the at the top side

of it, those those shop

earners, they're going to

make more money if we're

turning out quality students.

They're going to put their

name on all of their repairs.

I have to put my name on all

of my students. So we we want

everything to it. Everything

that comes around goes right

back around. We have alumni

and alumna that come back

into the the school and they

talk because I think we

start to see that full circle

come back around to make

this work. I mean,

everybody in my area is just

so helpful. There's I've

not actually been told no

yet. So I'm very, very

thankful for everybody that I

am working with all of my

industry partners, because I

haven't seen the negative side

of asking yet. Not once.

No, no. And I, I think part

of asking is knowing what

you're asking for, right?

And you kind of mentioned that

part earlier. I know one

thing that we learned as we

were going through and

building school assist was

that a lot of instructors

didn't even know what to ask

for, right? So we kind of had

to train them on, you know,

go through your day to day

life. What are things that

you wish you had? So you

actually know that you, you

know, you have a wish list

and then you have some of

those lists are, you know,

we've got a lot of schools

with especially high schools

budgetary constraints. Teachers

are paying for consumables

like a like break cleaner

or something like that out

of their own pocket. And

you're like, that should

never happen. Like we, we

as an industry should never

allow that to happen. Like

how, how easy is it for an

instructor to put out there

that we need, you know, name

whatever is consumable, like

sandpaper, for example, like

anything that and our

friends at Creft do a

phenomenal job at getting

donations out to a lot of

the collision programs. I

just look at even that part

if you're an instructor

that's out there that's like,

hey, I don't feel comfortable

asking for this stuff. Try to

get comfortable asking

because that is going to be

something that will have a

really big impact on your

program. And I think you'll

be surprised at how open

industry is to helping out.

Right. We get old equipment

that that works wonderfully.

We had an SDRSW donated

just a couple of years ago

from a wonderful industry

partner of ours. We it's not

just always monetary, right?

It's it can be it can be

equipment. We had tools

donated from companies. And

those are so important for

student learning too. So I

mean, and sometimes we don't

even ask, I think it's

they're like offering to

help. And so when I think

you get this good industry

relationship that networking,

you got to go out and talk

to people and if you're doing

for them and they're doing

for you, they come in, I

mean, and just help. So how

how do you see this is kind

of more of a forward looking

question? You mentioned

getting some of the Ados

tooling in there's a pretty

big change and a big shift in

technology in our industry

kind of this evolution

that's happening right now.

How do you keep up with that?

Because you talked about it

like those are complex systems.

There's a lot of technology

and vehicles now. And

even if you were in a shop

five years ago every single

day, things have evolved

so much as a teacher that

are hard to see when

you're not in a shop every

day. How do you understand

that and really kind of keep

up with the changes? I know

iCar does a lot of great

stuff to help schools out

there as well. But just give

me a little bit of your

senses of like it doesn't

get overwhelming at times

with the the kind of upgrades

or is it something that you

really look forward to?

I look forward to it.

One of my one of my

homeworks is actually

having the students research

some topics that I see

changing so that I can

keep myself up. So I'm

I don't want to read a novel.

I want everybody to just

give me like find

this topic and like right

now one of the one of my

assignments for this semester

is plastic repair.

I want you to find out

the future of plastic

repair because there's not

a lot of it out there.

And I think eventually

and it's just a personal

think that eventually

that that is going to

shift back into more

repairs because we're

throwing so much away.

And I think that our

upcoming generations are

caring more about how much

we are throwing away.

And so I want to see where

that is moving.

And so if I have them

research something on

the future of plastics

that they find interesting

site their source I just

want a paragraph or two.

And then I'm getting that

information from them.

They have to go out

and find it.

I can read about it.

If I find something that

I need to dig deeper

and they've cited their

source for me.

We also have MTTA

which I mentioned earlier.

We have to keep our

trainings up to date as

teachers.

So we go to this

retreat every summer.

And I'm actually

the auto body liaison

because I

I don't want to put down

the person that was

doing it before

because he's a great person.

But I was I was finding

myself going I don't want

to learn any of this.

It's not what my needs

are.

So now if there's

if my needs aren't met

at this training it's my own

faults.

So I'm I can go out

and go what do I want to

learn do I want to learn

ADOS let's get

an ADOS training up

at our retreat

so that all of the other

instructors can kind of

pick through and go this

is what I want to learn

because in the past

couple of years there's

only been like a

handful of auto body

stuff.

But this year I plan

to like load us up

where it's not

you have to go to this

one because that's

auto body.

I want people to go

I don't need

paint training but I do

want this ADOS

or I do want to see

what 3M is doing or

all of anything.

I want to I want to get

as many different

kind of vendors in there

as I can possibly

bill allow me.

Yeah.

Well it doesn't hurt to

have 3M in your backyard

either.

That's a great company.

Great company.

All right.

Last question

school related

and then we'll have

some that are quick

hitting questions.

What changes have you seen

in students over the years?

Have you have you seen

any type of changes?

And I know that's a very

all encompassing

type of question

but I am curious.

Have you seen any changes

in behaviors

and learning styles

and anything

over the over your time

at the school?

Oh over my whole 3 years.

Yeah.

It's not been a lot.

I can't say there's

been a lot of change

for me.

But one going from

training in body shops

to training with students.

I the learning styles

I see are the learning styles

of had been of the older

generations.

My generations older

and then training

these newer generations

of people.

It is a lot more

play based than in shops.

It's there's a lot

of emotions right now.

I see a lot of

he hurt my feelings

or she hurt my feelings

where we have to be like

all right.

We have a therapist for that.

I'm not great with feelings

so we'll

like move them into that side

of it.

Or

I would say

I would say the feelings

are a big part

of what we're doing.

So I'm having to

train with

that in mind

that students

are more willing

to talk about

how they feel

in the situations

I'm putting them in

where

they'll say

you're making me uncomfortable

because they have to learn

a new skill.

And I'll be like okay

because they don't feel

like they're doing good

right.

And so we have to go

you're doing great

or you're doing okay.

Let's

let's keep moving forward.

So I'm kind of fighting

with how they

their mental dilemmas

with themselves

and how they feel they're

doing.

That's great feedback

because I do

get that same feedback

from shops as well

that they feel like

they kind of have to dance

around feelings

a lot of times

and

especially with young people.

I think

at times they'll almost

put it in like that

entitled bucket

but it shouldn't be

in the entitled bucket.

Like it's it's more

that's how they were

taught to communicate

that's how they were

were raised.

And it is differently

different than maybe

the way we were raised

but

being able to

have some adaptability

as a leader

I think is really

important

for you shops

that are out there

and maybe

adjusting your style

a little bit

and how you manage

these folks

and you know I

hear it all the time

like

they all want a pat

on the back

they all want a pat

on the back

well

if we're being honest

I'm guessing that

60 year old tech

that's in the shop

might

like an occasional

pat on the back

even though

if they won't tell you

that

so maybe just try to give

some feedback

so they don't have to

assume how they're doing.

Right they

the

feelings thing

I think we all had them

it's just how that

they're communicating

them a little differently

so it's like

I feel I'm not doing good

I feel like I'm failing

and so

that's their

they're actually giving us

more information

that way

where we can say

okay why do you feel

like you're failing

and where are you struggling

where maybe

some of a

like

even my generation

if I was failing

I'd be like

well I'm figuring it out

on my own

I think they're actually

communicating

where they feel

their shortcomings are

and we just

have to listen to that

they're not saying that

they're having these big

feelings

that it's

I'm struggling here

and they were just

taught to communicate

I feel this

instead of saying

I'm not getting it

yeah

the way I was raised

in a shop

was take all those

feelings and

bottle them up

and just shove them

down and

never let them see

you cry

it has changed a lot

but that

I feel

sentence I know

has been taught

to a lot of young people

and you see it

in young professionals

so I

totally get that

I think that's

really good advice

for shops

that are out there

to understand

that there is

there are

generational gaps

there always have been

that will never change

in the history of the world

like there's always

going to be a difference

between

somebody that's been

in the industry

for

40 years

and somebody that's

just coming in

it's just the way

it is

like we've got

to we've got to figure out

ways to adapt

and we can't

always expect

the young person

to adapt

totally to our style

try to meet in the middle

somewhere

oh they won't

they won't adapt

it's

I find myself going

what does that mean

they'll use slang

that I've never heard before

and every single year

there's a new one

and

I'll be like

King

who's in charge of that

like some

just some random person

that comes up with it

and I'm sure TikTok

has something to do with it

TikTok is driving

some of it

yeah

but it's really fun

to throw those slangs

back at them

and I'll be

like I have

one young lady

and she's in our

second year now

and she said

fire a lot

so I'd

we'd

I'd always end it

with fire

and she'd

just shake her head at me

and I've been

well that doesn't sound

right coming from you

and I go

oh I'm gonna

keep doing it though

I love your approach in general

all right

so I've got some

fun questions for us

to end the podcast with

first one is

what was your first car

so a little

Plymouth the claim that was

I don't remember

I think maybe given to me

by my grandparents

all right

most impressive car

I don't even know

hot rod

yeah

I don't even know

if students know

what Plymouth is anymore

they probably wouldn't

have no clue

wouldn't have any clue

I never thought about that

until right now

what time do you get up in the

morning

butt crack

of those kids waking me up

I don't even have an alarm

clock

it can vary from day to day

from I think this morning

was 4 30

nice

on a snow day

or we call snow day

but cold day

and it was

the whisper in my ear

mommy

I didn't even

wet my bed

every parrot that's out there

understands what you're saying

right there

yes yes that is

that

oh that is great

all right

favorite type of food

anything spicy

ooh same

yep it's uh

it turns out

I do like a little pizza

with my sriracha

all right

I

quick story

I had tacos the other night

and my father-in-law had bought me

I bought some hot sauce

and brought it down

and it was one of those where I

tried to put some dots on it

and it just flowed out

like completely like covered the

taco with this

super hot sauce

and so rather than just start

over with another taco

I'm like you know what

I'm going to give it a shot

so I'm eating it

I am sweating

I can't like my nose is

running

all everything's going on

and I know my family is looking

at me like

you're a mess

like what what do you get going

on there

I'm like I'm powering through this

taco and then

I liked it so much

I did another one with the same

thing

it was uh

like why would you put yourself

through that torture

I don't know

it's something amazing

yeah I go to Buffalo Wild Wings

every now and then

and I get the blazing

because you do

yeah I love it

and I'll be sitting there

at the bar

and people will be looking

and my husband and the bar

tender will be like

she's fine

because I'll go

I'll be eating and going

oh

and at the end of it

I'll be like

I'm having so much fun

as your your eyes are watering

yeah yeah yeah

I've looked at my husband

and been like

uh what what did you say

I blacked out there for a second

it was really hot

but oh it was fun

well this this conversation

has been fun

you are an absolute blast

to talk to

I know the kids

just have to adore you

and this this is such a

such a cool conversation

the school itself

amazing school

here in the Midwest

and just uh

hope hope we get to do this

again

because I just had

an absolute blast

this last hour

I want to thank you

me too

good good

so you'll come back on

again at some point in the

future

oh only if you invite me

all right well

we're gonna make it happen

we're gonna

we're going to make it happen

I guarantee it

but yeah

thank you so much

for being on the show

absolute pleasure

and uh

and look forward to seeing

everything you're gonna do

at the school

thank you

that wraps up

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of Beyond the Wrench

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we'll see you next week

Building Better Collision Technicians in the Classroom

Ford Thunderbird

body work

ADOS calibration

Plymouth

About this episode

Original notes