The Smoking Tire Jul 22, 2025

Building Cars is HARD w/ Oil Stain Lab

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Term

LS motor

An LS motor is a type of V8 engine made by General Motors. It's popular for its power and is often used in different cars, especially when people want to upgrade their engines.

Car

The Porsche 911 GT3 is a super-fast sports car that is built for racing and driving enthusiasts. It's known for being very powerful and handling really well on the road or track, making it a favorite among car lovers.

Term

GT3 spec

GT3 spec is a set of rules for race cars that tells manufacturers how to build them for racing. It ensures that the cars are safe and perform well on the track.

Term

F1 spec

F1 spec is a set of rules for Formula 1 race cars that defines how they should be built to be super fast and safe. It's the highest level of racing technology.

Car

Alpine A110

The Alpine A110 is a sporty car that is fun to drive and looks great. The new version is inspired by an older model but has modern features.

Car

Mclaren P1

The McLaren P1 is a very fast and expensive car that uses both a gasoline engine and an electric motor to go super fast. It's known for its advanced technology and limited availability.

Car

Porsche 718

The Porsche 718 is a sporty car that comes in two main types: a convertible and a coupe. It's designed to be fun to drive and is known for its great handling.

Term

flat six architecture

A flat six engine has six cylinders that lie flat instead of standing up. This helps the car handle better because it keeps the weight low and balanced.

Term

LS engine

The LS engine is a type of V8 engine made by General Motors. It's known for being powerful and is often used in many different kinds of vehicles, especially in racing and custom builds.

Car

Porsche 911S

The Porsche 911 is a famous sports car known for its unique shape and powerful performance. It's been around for many years and is loved by car enthusiasts.

Term

inverters

Inverters help electric cars use their batteries to power the motors. They change the type of electricity so the motors can run smoothly.

Term

horsepower

Horsepower tells you how powerful an engine is. The more horsepower, the faster and stronger the car can go.

Term

DC fast charge

DC fast charge is a way to quickly charge electric cars. It uses a special type of electricity that can fill up the car's battery much faster than regular charging methods, which is helpful for drivers who need to recharge quickly, like at a race track.

Car

General Motors Ev1

The General Motors EV1 was one of the first electric cars made in the late 90s. It was special because it showed what electric cars could be, even though it didn't last long.

Term

EV hypercars

EV hypercars are super-fast electric cars that are designed to be very powerful and high-tech. They are like the fastest sports cars but run on electricity instead of gasoline.

Company

Gunther Werks

Gunther Werks is a company that takes classic Porsche cars and upgrades them with new technology and better performance, while still keeping the classic look.

Company

Singer

Singer is a company that takes old Porsche cars and makes them look and drive like new, using modern parts while keeping the classic style.

Brand

Bugatti

Bugatti is a famous car brand that makes very fast and expensive cars. They are known for their powerful engines and unique designs.

Term

combustion engine

A combustion engine is a type of engine that works by burning fuel to create power. It's what most cars have to make them go.

Term

racing engine

A racing engine is a powerful engine made for race cars. It's built to go really fast and handle tough conditions on the track.

Term

manual transmission

A manual transmission is a car system where you have to change gears yourself using a stick and a pedal. It gives you more control over how the car drives compared to automatic cars that shift gears for you.

Term

RPM

RPM means how many times the engine spins around in a minute. When the number is higher, it usually means the engine is going faster and can give more power.

Term

manual gearbox

A manual gearbox is a type of car transmission where you have to change gears yourself using a stick and a pedal. It gives you more control over how the car drives.

Term

paddle shift

Paddle shifting lets you change gears in a car using levers behind the steering wheel instead of a gear stick. It makes driving feel more like a race car without needing to use a clutch pedal.

Term

aerodynamics

Aerodynamics is about how air flows around a car. A well-designed car can cut through the air better, which helps it go faster and use less fuel.

Car

Aston Martin Valkyrie

The Aston Martin Valkyrie is an ultra-fast car that uses the latest technology to be super powerful and efficient. It's designed to be very special and is one of the most advanced cars ever made.

Term

ground effects car

A ground effects car is designed to stay closer to the ground by using air to push it down, which helps it grip the road better, especially when going fast.

Term

ride height

Ride height is how high or low a car sits off the ground. It can change how the car drives and handles on the road.

Term

CD

CD means coefficient of drag, which tells us how easily a car moves through the air. A lower number is better because it means the car uses less energy to go fast, especially for electric cars.

Car

Morgan Aeros

The Morgan Aero 8 is a special sports car from Britain that looks different from most cars because of its unique design. It's made by hand, which makes it really special and sought after.

Car

Alfa Romeo GTV

The Alfa Romeo GTV is a stylish sports car that people love for its good looks and fun driving experience. It's a classic car that many fans admire.

Car

Cadillac V16

The Cadillac V16 is a very old luxury car from the 1930s that had a huge engine and was known for being really fancy. It's a rare car that many collectors admire.

Car

Morgan 3

The Morgan 3 Wheeler is a fun and unusual car with only three wheels. It's known for its unique style and is loved by people who enjoy a different kind of driving experience.

Car

McLaren Alva

The McLaren Alva is a super-fast sports car made by McLaren. It's designed to be very light and aerodynamic, making it feel like you're flying when you drive it.

Car

Porsche 917

The Porsche 917 is a famous race car from the late 60s and early 70s that won many races. It's known for being super fast and has a special place in racing history.

Car

Honda Civic

The Honda Civic is a small car that many people use for everyday driving because it's reliable and gets good gas mileage. It's popular among a lot of different drivers, from families to young people, because it's affordable and easy to maintain.

Car

Gordon T50

The Gordon Murray Automotive T.50 is a super-fast car designed to be very light and fun to drive. It's made by a famous car designer and is known for its unique features and performance.

Car

Mazda 3

The Mazda 3 is a small car that many people like because it's fun to drive and looks good. It's also good on gas, making it a smart choice for everyday use.

Car

BMW M5

The BMW M5 Touring is a fast and powerful car that also has a lot of room inside for carrying things. It's a sporty version of the regular BMW 5 Series.

Car

Porsche Carrera T

The Porsche Carrera GT is a super-fast car from the early 2000s that many car enthusiasts dream of owning. It's known for its powerful engine and amazing performance.

Car

BMW F80

Car

Ferrari F80

The Ferrari F8 Tributo is a really fancy sports car that is super fast and powerful. It's known for its beautiful design and high performance, making it a dream car for many people.

Car

Porsche 356

The Porsche 356 is an old sports car that was one of the first models made by Porsche. It's loved for its classic style and the fun experience of driving it, making it a favorite among car collectors.

Car

Mclaren F1

The McLaren F1 is a super-fast car from the 90s that was really ahead of its time. It's famous for being one of the fastest cars ever made and is considered a classic among car enthusiasts.

Car

Ferrari 488

The Ferrari 488 Pista is a super-fast sports car that is built for racing and driving enthusiasts. It's known for being very powerful and lightweight, making it a thrilling car to drive.

LIVE

What's up, everybody? Welcome to the Smoking Tire podcast. Now, we are, as always, brought to you by off the record, but I'm not talking about them today because TST is coming to Texas. That's right, this Thursday and Friday, July 23rd and 24th. We are in Houston and Dallas, respectively, doing live podcasts at the shop clubs. Come see us in Houston, Thursday, July 24th.

With our pal, Christian, James, hand, and Friday, July 25th in Dallas. Tickets are going quick. It will sell out. So by them now, the ticket link is in the show notes for this podcast, as well as the Smoking Tire Instagram description. Link in bio. So get tickets. Come see us this Thursday and Friday in Texas. And if it goes well, it's the kind of thing we'll keep doing.

And coming to you other places throughout the country. So let's get to it. On this episode of the Smoking Tire podcast, we've got a real special guests in town, the twins of oil stain lab, Nikita and Ilya Burdan. These guys were here a couple of years ago with their insane half 11 conceptual historical revisionist project.

And it was such a big hit that they're apparently now going to turn it into a real car. I went to their studio to see it. And they're in studio telling us all about it now. So let's give a warm Smoking Tire welcome to Nikita and Ilya Burdan of oil stain labs. Let's go.

We're live. All right. Hello on the other side today. It's actually been a while since I've been on this this side of the table since the 1000, I think. Yeah, 30 episodes since I've been on this side of the table.

Nikita and Ilya. Nikita's that one is that one. I'll have done that in the intro already, but just be sure because like I mean listen. Let's be honest, all white people look exactly the same. Am I right?

When there's wins, you know, it helps, but otherwise, you know, still true now. Someone did say to me, I can't tell white people apart and my trainer who was black and met it like dead serious.

I was like, I was talking about the Lincoln lawyer with him. And I was like, Oh, you know that the TV show, it's based on a movie, but Matthew McConaughey is this and William H. Macy does this. And he's like, I don't know those white people.

All right. Cool. I'll just drop it right there. So anyway, we have Ukrainian twins, which is what is it about as white as people get?

When you guys walked in, that's like, they're here. I was like, great. And I was like, which one did I meet last time?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

All right. I feel like a fucking dick. But yeah, warning.

Yesterday, I got to go down and see your studio, which was very exciting. How many years ago were you here? Three years ago, two or three?

It was a while ago, right? So you told us the story of oil stain lab to that point. And that was, that was a fun and winding tale.

So now we have like, like an actual, well, it's not an actual car, but like it certainly looks much more like an actual car.

So you guys started with this amazing, like fictional history of a race car that never existed on Instagram.

Which is so fun. And down to the studio, the photos are blown up really big. And you can look at them really close.

I'm like, yeah, these Photoshop's aren't as good as I thought they were in 2021 on your phone. They look amazing.

Really, really big. Like, oh, yeah, with that one wasn't a copy at full stop.

It was brilliant. I mean, you were just talking about it before the show, but I thought it was brilliant marketing. It really did.

Oh, it was really fun to noise and trick people in like, is this car real?

Yeah, is that a thing I'm somehow missed?

But they're making it now. I don't get it. It was great.

So what happened between then when you had a ruthless Speedster car that was like real, you know,

made of aluminum foil, basically. And now with this orange car, Ilya, you want to start.

Take me. All right. So you had this, you were, you had this Speedster thing you built with the LS motor and you were sort of like

parading it around to places, showing its people.

Yeah, I mean, we built that as kind of a little business visual, visual business card for the brand.

And then started to have fun with it, went to different events, did all sorts of stuff with it.

And people started approaching us, and they really told us how much they love the project, obviously.

And then some people actually wanted to buy a car.

I want the fictional Le Mans car.

Yeah. And we were very skeptical that they actually wanted to buy that car.

Uh-huh. The illusion of it is fantastic, right? But the reality is sometimes, yeah.

Did you just make you offers for that one?

Yes. Okay. We got, we got offers.

You should sell it probably.

I mean, look, you now have all the pictures of it you will ever need.

You have seven lifetimes of photographs of it, and it's a museum piece.

It's a cool display at the studio. I'll admit that, but like...

I think we know that a prototype will never be worth so much as in the beginning, or at the very end,

when the company celebrates its 40th anniversary.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Exactly, yeah.

Okay. So people wanted it.

Yeah, and then so I think, yeah, last time you were here, we had already started kind of thinking what a production version would be.

And yeah, very early on, tried two-frame stuff, and then eventually went to a carbon tub,

just because the performance targets that we needed to hit arrow, packaging, everything.

Well, but there's something in between that, which is that this thing was a business card for what was supposed to be theoretically,

and Keith had told us a couple of years ago, sort of a design consultancy, right, for all type of consumer products,

car things, and other things, including some of the furniture that you guys have and otherwise.

But then when I went to the thing yesterday, I was like, so what's up with the design consultancy of the thing?

I mean, you're a studio.

And you were like, yeah, we're just going to like build the car now.

And I was like, oh, okay. So that's like a pretty serious pivot.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Big financial pivot.

Yeah, I know it is. I mean, because building a car is much harder than saying, look at this backstory we can create around a product,

and then bring a thing to life visually, which for a designer is an exceptional talent to have.

But building and selling, running cars is like a big leap.

Yeah, yeah, drawing is easier than building, I think.

It's definitely insane.

I think it happened a little bit slowly.

I think at first we're like, oh, yeah, this will be no big deal.

But building cars is actually really, really hard.

It turns out.

And it takes a lot of time and building out every facet of the business and everything.

So eventually, yeah, it just kind of started winding down with clients, and we're just like, we can't do this anymore.

Was it the sort of thing where like, okay, one guy wants to buy the original and give you a bunch of money for it.

And then maybe two or three guys want to buy the original, and you've only got one, and so, okay.

And then it's like, did another invest, did you talk to someone and go, hey, we've got 10, 12 people who want to buy this thing?

And they'll go, all right, I'll bankroll you and we'll actually make this a business, or did you guys go, we now want to,

we want to put our name on a, on a sellable car.

Need, there's no, like, right around.

Yeah, I mean, I'm trying to remember.

Yeah, I think, yeah, about two, two, three years ago, yeah.

We were like, like you said, we were getting all these inquiries and we decided, okay, like, how would we do this?

And then we built out a business model, we built out how the team would look and the structure and, you know, study the market, the opportunity, the product, the fit.

What, what we thought would resonate.

And then we basically, yeah, got an angel, found an angel, and that led to the eventual progression that you've now seen, right?

So, yeah, it took a little bit of time, we slowly winded down our clients, because it was just, the project swallowed us pretty whole, and the team pretty whole.

Yeah, obviously.

At some point, we start car companies, don't do it as a side hustle.

And so, yeah, I mean, I think, you know, we miss those days, but also this is very cool, because we get to build like our own universe.

Sure.

And we get to build other stuff.

Like, that's why we do the chairs and the apparel and other stuff.

I really like the chairs.

The, I don't know what it's called, like the lounge chair that's out of the, out of the regional.

We call it the maniac chair.

It's like a much better, a today version of an Eames chair, which I really, really like.

And later, we're going to talk about the one that I'll be getting.

You buy a chair?

I think I would like to buy a chair.

It was incredibly comfortable, and a beautiful piece of hardware.

I really liked it.

And I think with the right fabric choice, it could be an exceptionally, you know, stupid thing in the way that only my shit can be exceptionally.

You know, mine has to be, I have to have a thing of value and give it zero dollar resale value.

Make it just worthless.

No one else gets the inside jokes, like nothing.

I don't know if you saw my hot dog shit, because we're red.

So from an aesthetics point of view, did you, did you sort of put the original thing?

The original car, like into a CFD model and go, okay, what of this will work?

And what if it has to immediately be changed?

Because it will take off like that Mercedes-Lama.

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Yeah, I mean, we ran the original car before we built it through CFT just to make sure there was nothing crazy and it wasn't terrible.

It wasn't great, but it wasn't terrible.

I mean, it stayed on the driveway a good wood mostly.

It was fast.

Yeah, that was actually a running driving car for anyone brave enough to fucking get in.

And good wood's amazing.

I mean, that's the pinnacle for that car.

Yeah.

And I don't think I ever told the story of the podcast, but I told Ilia the other day that I was walking through the paddock at some event before you put the roof on this thing with Ben Collins, the stick.

Shout out to him.

Follow his YouTube channel.

Follow him on social media.

He is the sweetest man.

And he's funny as hell.

And he looks at him.

He goes, what is that?

And he goes, oh, let me tell you about Oilstake Lab and this fucking thing.

And I showed him the fake Lamar photos and things.

He's like, that's pretty awesome.

You couldn't pay me enough money to get in that.

He's like, because whatever the base of the windshield was basically a razor.

He's like, you see that?

No.

And so I was like, yeah, Ben, I see where you're going with that.

And then he heard somebody.

He said someone was running at a good wood.

He texted me.

Someone's running this fucking thing up.

Good wood.

I'm like, yeah, dude.

It's awesome.

Shout out to Ben.

So it wasn't bad when you see that it was okay.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, obviously, the original car was never designed to perform.

It was like a tribute to the past, right?

Yeah.

I think with the new car, what we did is we started with the driver.

Because the old car, five foot six, like my height, with a helmet.

Like, you're basically like sitting like this, right?

Yeah.

That's not a German car.

That's an Italian car.

Yeah.

We have to redo the front end.

Make it a little more wiggly.

Yeah.

So I think, yeah, we started with that.

And then we, you know, from our car design experience,

we basically put in a six-foot-form mannequin and then put a helmet on the guy.

Yeah.

And we're like, OK, that's what we need to do.

So it's also when we hated life.

Yeah.

Oh, shit.

We have to make this concept car fit a human.

Yeah.

It's going to be so ugly.

Yeah.

It's getting, yeah.

A lot longer.

It's getting a lot taller.

And then the engineering team came back with, there's like a roll over angle.

And instead of meeting GT3 spec, they went all the way to F1 spec,

which is an extra 25 millimeters on top of the line for clearance.

And we were just like, no, please, no.

It's already so tall and ugly.

Well, it doesn't look tall.

And it's long, then.

It looks awesome.

No, I mean, it's not.

But compared to the original thing, which like, you know, humans don't fit it.

Right.

You know, like that Alpine, like we, you know, we drove a modern Alpine A110 recently,

which is a lovely, lovely thing.

And I just went into a car show that had one of the original Alpine A110s

and it looked like a fucking scale model.

Yeah.

Humans got it.

It's like what?

What?

Yeah, no, this is this, I mean, this is now the size of like a McLaren P1, maybe.

Smaller.

It's a little smaller, maybe?

Yeah.

So overall length, it's the same as a 718.

Okay.

And then obviously much wider and lower.

But lengthwise, it's the same length as the old car.

So it's about 172 inches long.

Okay.

Pretty compact.

And it does fit two people, largely.

It does.

Six foot four.

Yeah.

Two tall people.

Maybe not.

Are they fat people?

Are your mannequins like a douche in a quarter?

Well, the chair you sat in is basically more or less what's going in the car.

So it's based off that comfort curve and everything.

That'll be too long.

You're just speaking.

You're going to be up like that.

Well, you're going to be a lot lower.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

So it will fit humans allegedly.

Tell me about what makes it go.

Yeah.

So what makes it go?

You know, I think we've stuck with sort of a flat six architecture for this one.

The original car, obviously, had the LS the custom bill.

For this one, yeah.

We decided to go back to sort of that original, I don't know, inspiration in the period or whatever.

And we love Porsches.

We've got a couple straight pipe, 9.11s and stuff.

So, yeah.

First prototype, which will start running sometime in the fall.

That's going to be powered by GT4MR powertrain.

And then we're building out a sort of a cup motor, a 991 cup motor derived motor.

So I'll be the second one that goes in.

And then the ever controversial option.

Yeah, the electric thing, right?

Yeah.

Well, Ilya told me about this.

And I mean, I don't think it's controversial, but I did question it.

Yeah.

There was so, so, so, go ahead and tell us about what this EV option is.

Yeah.

So, I mean, very early on, we wanted to explore, you know, what would be sort of a powertrain agnostic approach, right?

And we genuinely hate EV.

Yeah, I saw this slide.

It's not the first slide.

Like we hate EVs, right?

Yeah.

And so, when we started thinking about it, we knew basically, yeah, you have to get the weight out.

So, we run silicone I know pouches basically, ultra lightweight, obviously lightweight, inverters,

and the motors, you know, nowadays, you can get, you know, 800 horsepower.

It's 40 kilo.

Yeah.

Like it was nothing, right?

Yeah.

So, the more we did it, the more it sort of started to be appealing to us,

because we're like, we can actually do it 2000 pound EV.

And then when we got to that point, we're like, let's make our life really hard and make it swapable.

What was it?

Yeah.

So, that was the other part.

And is it swapable just because it makes more sense as a small company to design a chassis

that would easily work with either without modifications.

And when you take that into account, it sort of just makes it swapable by default.

So, the idea came from one client when it was not swapable.

And we presented the two power plants.

And he was like, well, maybe I'll buy one of each.

And we're like, that seems wasteful.

Yeah.

Why don't we make it swapable?

So, that was kind of the genesis of it.

At that point, we had no idea if it was possible or not.

It's an interesting idea.

Yeah.

But I don't like, who's going to do that?

Like, people don't even want to swap their tires.

Like, who that can afford this probably seven figure thing.

Who's going to like, he already demonstrated his willingness to buy two.

He has enough money for two, enough space for two.

That seems, even though it's quote wasteful, that seems less annoying than making it swap.

I just don't know who's going to do that.

You guys thought of this idea clearly excited you.

Have you presented it to clients and they go, oh, cool.

Or do they tell you, well, I'll just take one of the engines or one of the power plants.

Yeah, no, I think genuine, huge amount of interest in it.

Yeah.

So, we call it thunderbolt, for obvious reasons, thunder and volt.

Yeah.

I would say, yeah, I think 70% of people are interested in the EV version,

like genuinely interested.

Wow.

A few people are rejecting combustion and saying, I'll just get the EV.

And some people are interested in both.

Wow.

But I think what's interesting about both, what appeals to people is,

I mean, there's all sorts of legislation that's happening.

There's all sorts of like regulations.

One thing we're not sure about is like the use case.

You take the electric to the track because it would kind of be faster,

or would you take the combustion one to the track?

Like, we're not really sure how people will use it.

I mean, the electric one, you'd set one fast lap, you know,

unless you're at a track that has DC fast charge.

Exactly.

You know, for it.

But, you know, even the ones that do right now are pretty much only testless in the US

and out in other countries who knows, maybe they're, you know,

in other parts of the world.

I think to add on to his point, I think when you talk about the swap ability,

the beauty is, you know, if you bought an electric and then you just hate it,

you can get the combustion power train, the combustion power train, just swap it in, you know?

That's true.

If you buy one, you don't have to throw away the whole car if you don't like it.

Okay.

I'll buy that.

I just like, I went to, you know, it's not a question of like,

whether it's fun or not or whether the EV1 drives well or not

or whether you can build an EV under 2000 pounds.

Like, all of those are interesting questions that I think are solvable.

But like four years ago, if you went to the quail, you saw a whole bunch of EV hypercars.

And if you went to the quail last year, they're all gone.

And what's there instead is these boutique sort of restomati,

but with modern technology, you know, variance on what a gas version of your car could be.

Like I'm talking about Toddles' thing, the sort of GT1 influence, which is a gas thing

or, you know, any singer and Gunther and all of these people.

I mean, even what Bugatti is doing,

is this real like sort of shift away from the electric hypercar.

So I just wonder about if the costs of development for a FARC,

a small company combined with the cost of making it swappable is going to result in sales.

Maybe you know something about trends that I don't know.

Do you know something about trends that I don't know?

Is the market for the EV hypercar actually doing this?

I think so. What's an EV hypercar way today?

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What's an EV hypercar way today?

I mean they're heavy batteries are heavy.

I mean I think the lightest now is the Veejo which isn't even legal in the US but it's 4,000 pounds.

The Rivera's 5700.

Is that how you pronounce it?

I pronounce it a via.

Do I do it wrong?

I don't know.

They haven't made it easy for us certainly.

Yeah no true so like go back let's why would how are you the only people who would be able to do this?

Well I think it's really sad because it's you know we come from the OEM space and we saw the batteries being developed.

We hadn't worked on any sort of production programs that were combustion power since 2012.

The technology exists there's a number of reasons why the OEMs won't do it.

Part of it is legislation part of his warranties part of it's a number of things right?

Like what led to one of them that it's like dangerous in a crash or likely to catch fire or something like

I mean I mean it's one thing if the lifespan of something is shorter right?

You buy a racing engine such as the one I have in my Porsche.

And the guy who builds the racing engine says well this engine will be good for a hundred thousand miles of street use.

And then he's beer built and you go well okay at 3,000 miles a year that's 35 years.

Like great fine but Porsche would go oh no this is not acceptable.

The engine must be 250,000 miles even if this car will never in its whole life see that.

And so it could be one of those situations or is this riskier than that?

Well I mean I just think the right product hasn't been made I mean as simply as that right?

It's like making batteries.

We aren't developing batteries but what we're doing is putting together an experience right?

That is so different than anything that's ever existed right?

If you tell any car guy two thousand pounds six hundred horsepower manual transmission.

What's wrong with that?

Right his pants lift the table of course.

Yes in theory I'm just like you know so no one's got that.

I imagine there's there's OEM constraints to everything because of course there is.

And then there's technology out there that is either more experimental,

it can't be mass produced whatever or the cost is too high but folks like you you know and your clients they don't give a shit.

So that's a great freedom of course.

It's cost I think it's also like you know they have to put their purchase waters in so so early.

So it's like when you're developing EV you're buying your batteries you know three four years before a car goes to production.

So that you have enough to actually make.

Okay so you're saying the stuff that maybe that you can you can get for this car and we might see in five years.

You can use a lot more cutting edge stuff because we're smaller Nimbler.

Okay I think it's unlikely any OEM will use this technology for at least a decade.

And I'll tell you why there's in the US there's a warranty thing which is that your battery cannot degrade

80 more than 80 percent over 10 years.

More than 20 percent.

You can't get 80 percent out 20 percent down over 10 years.

Which like you know good consumer protection law if you ask me I mean that that combustion engine is seven years.

What a can't degrade to 20 percent.

Well no you only get seven year warranty on combustion.

Oh warranty.

Sure.

So there's a real imbalance there and if you're a company that's making very profitable margins on all technology why would you invest in something new?

That has really actually stringent warranty that may become an issue.

It's a risk you wouldn't take right so the only risk or people that would take this risk would be a startup.

Okay.

Alright cool.

Look I don't I mean I don't we don't need to spend an hour with me going to ruin you on this.

I'll operate into the assumption that what you're talking about isn't completely made up about that.

I was like I'll just say that and like I hope we don't find out I'm wrong about that later.

But like I don't think it's made up.

But it's it's the kind of thing where it's like you know you guys kind of coming out of nowhere and you're talking about a technology that fundamentally doesn't exist in cars right now.

At least not ones you can buy.

Right.

So okay cool.

I hope it's the first time I see it.

Fine.

Sounds good.

And I hope there's a market for it.

I mean I think a lightweight electric car is a good idea.

I mean to the degree that it's possible.

Right.

And then maybe you don't make people go back to them.

You know I think I it was crazy that there was this everyone thought there was going to be this electric hypercar market and it turned out that the people who bought

who were had enough money to buy the hypercar daily drive electric cars.

They wanted some high revving psycho death you know 9-11k revs to 11 kind of thing for the weekend.

I mean I guess if you can offer both God bless.

Yeah.

No I mean it's it's yeah.

Is the idea that the two cost roughly the same or would one be wildly more expensive than the other?

No they're about the same.

Yeah.

Yeah the base prices are the same so people get to choose and then yeah they can pay the extra fee to get the thunderbolt package.

Okay.

Were there any like fun discoveries of benefits of being able to share the platform with two powertrains?

Did you like you have to brace things differently or you get to slot that battery pack somewhere where there was already an empty space or do you

have to make accommodations for it?

Yeah we had to make a bunch of accommodations.

Yeah so it was actually a giant pain in the body.

I would say yeah.

Do not recommend.

It's like you like broke the wall to the levy and then the water starts filling up.

You're like now I'm going to build a house.

Yeah.

This seems like a challenge.

I'll have a vote.

Right.

Now we have a vote.

Exactly.

We have a vote now.

You did it wrong way.

And I assume that the gas one people will want a manual gearbox probably right?

We hope so.

I hope so.

Well both yeah we hope both as manual.

Yeah.

Oh the idea with the electric is that it's manual right?

Yeah correct.

Alright.

That has been done before.

Electric paired with just guys with a couple of Porsche's that have that.

And of course it seems the work you know it does seem to work.

I don't think you have to rev match.

I think it's just you just put it in.

You don't know that you can just come to a stop.

That's convenient.

So that's kind of nice.

I haven't tried it.

Have you never tried one?

No.

Yeah I tried one.

It's like kind of what you think.

But also you pretty much can't stall it.

I mean you can't.

Not pretty much you can't.

Right.

You literally can't.

And then you can you don't need to use the clutch in the last one I used after first gear.

So yeah okay.

It's kind of fun.

It's like race car.

It was sort of fun in its own way.

I don't think it was like better than driving stick in a gas car but like it was okay.

Also like the paddle shift way is pretty cool.

Because I mean maybe I don't know maybe if someone else isn't going to do it.

If Porsche is not going to do it themselves.

Maybe you guys can do it.

The EV emulator thing where you can make it drive like anything.

You can just like somehow steal the fucking metrics before it's something right.

All right so what else do we need to know about it?

We've got two power trains that you can theoretically swap.

Two thousand pounds carbon tub.

What are the other other important interesting things we need to know about this car?

She is I don't know.

Right in aerodynamics.

She yeah.

Yeah.

Arrow.

Go for it.

Sure.

It's got aerodynamics.

But it doesn't have a big weight.

Yeah.

No.

So I think early on when we started like the early packaging on this thing.

The tub, suspension, engine, layout, how the occupants sit.

It all drives arrow.

So it again started with the occupant.

The occupants sits perfectly straight in the car.

It's not tilted seven degrees like a valkyrie and like rotated in this and that twisted in there.

It's a very neutral straight forward seating position steering wheel pedals fully in line.

Nothing's crooked, nothing's weird.

And then from there basically work through the the arrow philosophy.

The front obviously has a pretty aggressive kind of big splitter.

Big pass throughs on the sides.

Zach can you click back?

I can talk about the back.

He was managing things.

No, he was just managing other things.

There might be an underbody shot on the Instagram.

Is there a girl down a little bit?

So yeah, lower half of the car between the wheels to me seems like it's doing a lot of work.

Yes.

And it also most resembles a valkyrie in that way.

Or it's that sort of you've draped a bit of a body over like a Formula 1 type of car.

Yeah, it's very much much more elegant up top for sure, very clean, very simple.

It's a ground effects car.

But it's been designed to be very neutral progressive.

Ride height is pretty high.

So it doesn't really...

It's not going to be super snappy.

It's going to be a porpoise like a Formula 1 car with really low ride height.

So it's a ride height about 105 millimeters.

It's designed to be a road car, right?

It's not designed to be a track car.

So you know, it's not...

You need a certain amount of arrow and numbers and whatever to brag about.

But at the end of the day, you actually kind of want it to like be fun and move around a little way.

Yeah, go kart.

Yeah, you don't want it to pull 1.9 Gs through corners.

You want it to like be able to slide a little and not be like scary.

I think the most interesting thing about the aero philosophy was we didn't want to give up the exposed tires.

Which is, you know, every aerodynamicist's nightmare.

It's just those exposed rear tires, exposed front tires.

Like, what are you guys doing?

Like, can we put covers?

Can we do this?

And we honestly, who we fought back and we're like,

we need to figure out a clever way of doing this, you know?

And so the front is basically managed through...

Yeah, kind of...

You can see it here.

Those side blades just above the splitter.

It's basically an air curtain, you know, very similar.

Probably more aggressive than an air curtain, but...

And then on the back, what we do is we basically generate like a low, low speed zone essentially,

down the whole lower body side.

Uh-oh.

And when you have low speed air, it's really hard to move it.

So it becomes basically like, I don't know, if you know about like pickup trucks on the back.

Yeah.

You just get this kind of bubble that generates, right?

And all the high speed air kind of goes to the outside.

And so, yeah, our rear tires basically don't get hit with direct high speed air.

Oh, so they're in the bubble?

Yeah, essentially.

Okay.

So, worked a lot on that.

And it actually gets pretty good CD numbers and drag numbers and downforce figures.

The CD is particularly important for the EV.

Because, yeah.

Aeroplane.

For sure.

A big thing in range, so.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I've just recently been learning on electric motorcycles.

Okay.

Let me tell you, those numbers on range are not with that far right?

Okay.

That's...

That means they're recalped.

Gotta say, the underside is gorgeous.

Pretty gorgeous, right?

And you'll only be seeing if someone puts it on a lift or...

If they flip it, they'll go, wow, this is still a really good look.

Oh, yeah.

No, it's...

I mean, it looks very prototype race car, you know.

And so, what are you doing outside of the tub at the front and the rear in terms of, like, suspension and stuff like that?

Yeah.

So, I mean, double AR, I'm at the front, double AR, I'm at the rear.

So, I can be looking at the rear suspension.

Maybe that overhead shot there.

Can you see the rear suspension?

Yeah, we can see some cantilevered shocks.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Kind of reminiscent of what we did on the first car at the back.

We work with Joe Scarbo on all the suspension kinematics and everything.

So, yeah, tubular rear.

This is an older image, but at the front, actually our whole subframe is now CNC aluminum.

So, no more of these tubular sections.

Okay.

But we are keeping tubular arms, because that's just the lightest, strongest, easiest way to modify stuff, especially when we're going through testing.

Yeah, owns shock absorbers or coilovers, I guess.

And they're actually the same front and back, but different balding.

Oh.

So, that's one way we can, yeah.

Do you have a prototype tub like this yet that you guys have...

This is...

Everyone built a you can tutel around in?

This is going to be done in the fall, like what you see in that image.

Gotcha.

So, the first tub is being built currently in North Carolina with Crawford.

Cool.

So, that's in progress now.

Sorry.

Yeah, it's coming soon.

I hope you guys get a, like rent a runway and just go drive around with the open tub.

It would just be so sick.

Yeah.

Public road.

No, it's that.

But, like, this would be like, yeah, it would be like just a little, a little go-cart.

You know, with six on a horse, but with more headroom.

Yeah.

Well, have you heard this engine run with this insane single collector exhaust on it?

Six to one exhaust?

Haven't heard this one.

No.

I've heard, yeah, the first power train that's going to go into it, which is the GT4MR.

But it had, yeah, just the race exhaust on it.

This should sound cool.

Yeah.

It's just, it's just a giant.

Is that, does that divider go the whole way or is it really six into one?

It's six into one.

Yeah, yeah.

The divider is a really nice aesthetic choice, though.

It looks good.

Does that do anything?

The divider in the center of the exhaust table has just looked nice.

It was inspired.

I was working for a space company like a few years ago.

And they were doing Scramjet engines.

And yeah, so it's pulled that detail in there.

Yeah.

That's a nice one.

It's like shout out to our boy, Sasha Slypinov.

His exhaust is inspired by Space Shuttle, the three Space Shuttle engines.

And actually quite successful at that.

Yeah.

Man, this thing looks awesome above.

I have heard that to have windshields made for cars like this is like staggeringly expensive.

Is that accurate?

Correct.

Yeah.

What was it caused to get a windshield?

So actually, we use an off the shelf windshield.

Oh, really?

I'm gonna say who, but we do use an off the shelf windshield.

Really?

Let me look at it again.

Can you, will you blink twice if I guess it right?

I won't either confirm or deny.

Oh, man.

Someone in the comments will get this.

Now that we know, this is going to involve some slew thing.

Can I get like a 45 degree angle maybe?

Like to answer your question.

Yeah.

Initially, when we started, our windshield was fully custom.

It was about, I think it was like what, 35?

$35,000 with a 50% failure rate.

Yeah.

Wow.

We didn't want to pay for all of them.

Oh no way.

It's so shitty.

And for an extra 10 grand, it could be Gorilla Glass.

Those have 100% failure rate.

Oh, who is this windshield?

This is going to take some work.

Yeah.

It has to stare at this for a little while.

Is it a publicly available car?

Yeah, so that was the intent is like, you know,

if people are using these and they do crack a windshield,

you know, we're not going to wait two months to get another windshield

or something, right?

Yeah.

So it's something you can get around the world.

And yeah.

It doesn't mean it's cheap.

It just means it exists.

You know, but all right, we're going to have to stare at that one.

Some commenter is going to have this in five seconds.

If someone on the live chat doesn't like already have it,

I'll be pretty disappointed with you.

I don't want to put you guys in an awkward spot

in a public forum.

But does Porsche get mad when you do stuff like this?

And I mean, maybe not.

I think I actually think Porsche probably liked your first bit

of a concept.

I bet they thought that was cool.

But now you're selling a car that looks like it could have been

potentially been something that they were selling.

And do they get mad at you?

I wouldn't know.

I guess we'll find out.

I mean, you're right.

I mean, we had a conversation with them about the original car.

You know, I think they like the idea.

We know the higher ups like what we're doing.

There's no Porsche in it.

Yeah, yeah.

So whatever.

That's a fair answer.

There's no Porsche in it.

And there's no Porsche badge on it.

And so I think if you changed the headlights,

would it even be associated, you think?

I think that's probably accurate.

If you change the headlights,

it really wouldn't look much like a Porsche at all.

And those aren't Porsche headlights, are they?

I don't think they are.

They just happen to be round.

But there are many Cooper and I'm just kidding.

No.

Remember when...

Remember when Morgan...

My favorite repurposed headlights of all time.

They flipped them in the headlights.

Google Morgan Aero's 8

and look at the headlights.

You'll never be able to unsee that shit.

Yeah, look at that.

Were they many or were they Volkswagen Beetle?

They're many.

I think they're many.

Did I just say Beetle before?

They're many headlights flipped upside down and inverted,

which is very fun and also very silly and you can't see it.

But fuck me, do I want a Morgan Aero super sports in my life?

The new three wheelers.

The new three was okay.

And the new plus four just arrived.

We manage Morgan's press fleet at WCCS.

And so we've got the new plus four,

which is all aluminum.

No more wood at all.

Is that the pin and freena speedster?

Which one is the speedster thing?

That thing's cool.

The white one they unveiled?

Morgan, isn't it?

It's just a concept.

Morgan...

Can you look at the Morgan pin and freena speedster thing?

It's just a concept, wasn't it?

That thing.

Oh yeah.

I mean, that's a winner.

That's cool.

I like it.

But you know, I liked Morgan's rally car thing they did.

The plus four rally cars kick ass.

I bet that thing wouldn't survive three days in the dirt,

but God damn, didn't look cool.

It'd be like our alpha.

It'd make me feel like Indiana Jones.

Oh, man.

If you guys are all, like, real estate lab,

that sounds familiar.

They jumped their fucking alpha GTV on the Khun again.

That's what we built into.

Alpha's right.

One you jumped in water ballooned all of its fluids all of it.

Yeah, yeah.

The other one was like that.

They offered it.

Yeah.

Oh, the Indian one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That one didn't...

You didn't bend in half.

I would roll this Morgan around Lake Como,

which is where this photo was taken.

The driving around Lake Como is not very good.

Of course not.

The boating is what it's about.

If you guys ever designed a boat, would you do a boat?

That'd be cool.

Yeah.

I think you should...

If you took the half 11 concept to vintage boating,

I bet that would be cool as fuck.

And you'd find some other angel investors.

It's like, yo, it's way easier to build a boat

than it is to build a car.

Jet turbine, catamaran.

Fuck yeah.

My homie Phillip has a boat.

It's like, it's like from the 30s or something

and has like four V16 Detroit diesel.

It's called like Tomahawk or something.

And it did like 70 knots in the 60s.

And everyone's like, bass flew off.

It's a crazy thing.

That's awesome.

This...

Wait.

All right.

So this Morgan, what have they done with these headlights though?

I think that's a concept.

So it's probably just unique.

It's just a weird shit.

Yeah.

It looks like a two-of-a-proof projector.

Like you know the deep projector,

and then just a round surround.

Right.

I do kind of dig the pairing of the flat face wheels

and the full chrome surround on the bottom.

I don't know why.

That has...

That's a really good question.

When I was in GMO,

we were trying so hard to put that back on Cadillac.

Of course.

You're about to have that.

That's a bum.

Okay, guys.

Guess what?

The conversation's happening in Cadillac boardrooms

or exactly what you think they are.

Someone's going to call and go,

listen, I need a black wing,

the full chrome,

and somebody will be like,

yes!

Boss, I told you!

They're all coming now.

Yes.

Oh, man.

That's pretty cool, actually.

Where were we?

Speeds are windshields.

Are we for them?

Um...

I don't like it in the Morgan 3 wheeler.

Right.

And I drove it because it's like a plexi in it.

It's so scratched and you can't see anything.

Not great.

But that looks like it's almost below.

I liked it in the...

I liked it in the McLaren Alva

because I felt like I was flying.

There's just nothing.

Right, there's nothing.

There's just insanity.

Yeah.

That's...

On the old 3 wheeler,

I think it was better.

Yes.

It was glass on the new one.

It's like Lexan or something.

Yeah, that's the new one.

The new one is objectively better

but also worse because it's better.

Right.

The 3...

A Morgan 3 wheeler is supposed to be like

half way to being a piece of junk

but it's supposed to sound like a fucking spitfire.

Right.

And your expectations are so much lower when it looks like this.

Yeah.

That's a lot of trouble.

Sure.

Yeah, that makes sense.

My 20 minutes driving one of these though,

I was...

I was barren, van, fucking something.

You know what I mean?

It was unbelievable.

Yeah.

Your left arm doesn't fit in the vehicle.

Yeah.

But you're...

Would you guys do a speedster of the HF11?

We can.

Yeah.

I mean, the tub's been designed to accommodate

basically rollovers and everything without a windshield,

without the A pillars.

So...

Without the roof.

Yeah, without the roof.

Yeah.

So we can just pull that.

We'd have to redesign the door hinge system

because you'd eliminate the upper pivot.

Yeah.

But...

Yeah.

But it can be done.

Yeah.

Just reverse engineer him, McLaren.

Yeah.

Or you can make him jump in like the original car.

Yeah.

Big doors.

Yeah.

No doors.

I'm like a little baby door.

Yeah.

A little flimsy.

Yeah.

No.

I like the...

You have to just jump in this thing.

You've got to like...

I think you have to make people...

Like, it has to be like a little uncomfortable.

Like, you know, they need some...

Like, it's like a...

It's the opposite of Alex Roy.

I mean, I'm sure this is...

He didn't remotely make this up.

But my friend Alex Roy,

it's the opposite of virtue signaling,

his vice signaling.

And so, it's like when you drive like a vintage car,

it's like, well, you wouldn't believe what it called.

Like, you wouldn't believe what I have to deal with to...

To have this special experience.

That's like a vice signal.

And so like, yeah.

No doors.

So people can be like,

it doesn't even have doors.

Your...

Your Pagani's got doors.

You're...

Are you even like a car guy?

I like doing that.

That's what we got to do enough.

Yeah.

Now you have to do speedster.

No windshield, no doors.

Okay.

It's...

I think it's very pretty.

The orange car, or orange today,

certainly very pretty.

So, what are...

Give me the next steps between...

You're going to have that sort of running mule in the fall.

And you've got this one-to-one model, basically, roller.

So, when do those two things start to become one thing?

Yeah, I mean, I think towards the end of the year,

that's when you sort of get a more of an aesthetic driving car.

We're going to develop this the same way we did with the original car,

where we were driving it with no body work around race tracks.

And, you know...

Yeah, having a good time.

I would like to come try it.

Sure.

I'm happy.

No body work doesn't bother me at all.

Yeah, yeah.

There'll be a windscreen to start.

I don't mean that.

But no doors.

Yeah, doors.

It's okay.

You can touch the pavement.

You can do that.

But yeah, no.

I mean, I think for us, we just need to validate a lot of the suspensions

steering braking systems.

Make sure that's good.

And it's obviously a lot less risky with without damaging body work.

If something does happen...

Yeah.

Then basically body work goes on.

You need to validate, you know, some suspension travel.

Obviously, it's been done digitally.

But tires do deform at speed.

And, you know, there's all this stuff that you need to sort of

slowly work your way through to make sure it's safe.

And then, yeah, by the end of the year, you know,

fully developed interior and exterior.

I saw the...

Is there...

Are there renderings of the interior on here?

I saw them on your thing.

Yeah, if you click a silent.

You click what the silent line?

That's how we call it.

Yeah, that's...

It's good for SEO.

And then the little plus sign.

The interior, I think, is...

It gives me a very modernized sort of Porsche 917 vibe,

which with this sort of gauge cluster of five pods.

It's beautiful.

It's some toggle switches next to the steering wheel.

I do see the milled wood on top of that shifter knob there.

I like the center key right above the console there.

Lots of knobs and switches.

I see no screens.

Door is so deep you can tuck a helmet into it.

That's a lots of strato smooth right there.

I like that very much.

Although, I seriously question if that is possible in reality.

It is possible.

Seriously, it is possible.

We scanned the biggest helmet we could find to package protect.

Okay.

Well, if you can fit a helmet, you can fit a whole lot.

Someone's going to find a bigger helmet.

Is that the only storage in the car in the doors?

So, yeah, if you don't put a helmet in there,

obviously you can put a duffle bag.

We had one client ask for a cup holder.

So, we were like, we could do like a cool gyroscopic one.

So, when you open the door, it doesn't still the drink.

That is cool.

But I think with this, I mean, it's an open pocket.

So, anything you put in there is going to fall out.

So, do you have like a mesh covering you can put on there to hold the stuff?

Yeah, there could be a strap or, you know, there's different.

Basically, that inner pocket can be highly, highly customized with patterns or storage.

Yeah, one super car was that has vertical doors and door pockets.

And I kept putting shit in there and opening the door that had fallen off fall out.

And I went, who designed it?

Who designed the thing where this could just happen all the time?

It's crazy.

It drops your phone.

It's like $1,000 on the ground.

I mean, as our doors open, it'll just keep falling into the bucket.

So, it'll go...

Yeah.

So, it goes that...

Yeah.

It's butterflies.

Oh, right.

So, it goes that way.

It should be safe.

And we've also cleared out recently, actually.

We moved a lot of stuff from the front hood area underneath the dashboard.

So, now we have...

You could put a carry-on in the front.

Oh, that's cool.

Yeah.

I saw some knurled knobs.

Knurling is good.

And I really liked that the gauge pod sits on that those sort of stanchions off the desk.

Yeah, that's cool.

It gives you a nice bit of sort of air there, right?

Yeah.

And actually, the dashboard's really pushed away from you.

So, it's going to be really unique, and also gives you a bit more room sort of feel,

like a roomy feeling in there by kind of pushing those things away from you.

How many of these ideas have been in your heads, either of you,

since you were like kids or students?

I mean, is this stuff that's just been in the back of your head,

and you couldn't do an ODM because of the cost, or did you think it all up

after looking at the market and seeing, you know, what do we wish was it was around?

Well, that's a tough question.

I mean, I don't think anything comes really from kids.

But I mean, we've been doing this project,

but the original Half-Fly one started with 2019, something like that.

So, we've had a lot of ideas in those six years.

But, you know, I mean, like for the gauge cluster,

the original idea on the car was we didn't know how we're to position it.

So, we had four rods with himes that were adjustable so that we could lower it, raise it, tilt it,

because we just had no idea ergonomically what we wanted to do on that car.

Yeah.

And so, that feature carried over, but now it's not adjustable.

It's just it's set, you know.

It would actually be sort of cool not to give you guys more challenges.

If you could like just spin the rods, and it would, you know, tilt a little bit

to maybe adjust for height, not that you need more work,

but like that would be a way to like carry on the functionality of that in a way

that could make a difference.

The original Half-Fly one, it just...

We're just like, we got to fix this thing.

Sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Unless you're using actual end-blinks or something.

Yeah, right.

Or like hydraulic.

Yeah.

But, you know, I think, yeah, we get inspired from the past.

So, I mean, yeah, like you picked up on the strados, like we love strados.

And it's like, yeah, wouldn't that be cool?

It's not a mistake.

Yeah.

No, yeah.

That is a good detail.

Yeah.

Are there other little details from like inspired by other cars?

Yeah.

That's a really good look at the back of that gauge pod with the stanchions that it's sitting on.

It's really...

It's a few inches of clearance off the dash, right?

Completely free-floating.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's a really cool detail.

And the seats are fixed.

I assume the pedals slide.

Seats are not fixed.

They're on a slider, yeah.

They're on a slider.

Oh, they're not actually touching, are they?

I thought for a second they were touching.

So, yeah, seat slide, tilt telescope steering column.

Pedals are four point or four locations.

Okay.

So you can set them in four locations, but they're fixed once they're set.

So, yeah, from a comfort point of view, it should be decent.

And what is that, like sort of tumbler stock coming off the...

I mean, is it the wiper stock?

Is that...

Yeah, what is that stock?

It's a grab handle for when you're terrified.

Oh, we know that's the back of the button pedal.

Oh, okay.

Oh, the button pedal.

The button pedal floats too.

Cool.

Yeah, cool.

This is fucking cool.

Yeah, the interior, the interior is kind of where they get me.

Not bad guys.

The interior is very nice.

And that steering wheel on that white one, that looks like a...

That looks very squishy.

Like the Wilson headband, I wear the Pilates on Saturday.

So, that...

Why is it like that?

We should do an homage to that.

We should put some right sticks and some striping on it.

That would be sick.

You know, if nobody does a Terry cloth interior anymore, let's fucking go.

Yes.

We're running on the max.

That would have been something.

Terry cloth.

Maybe I can get a Terry cloth cover made.

That would be pretty cool.

Yeah.

I think Terry cloth would probably endure the sun, not quite as well.

No, yeah.

It's my automotive...

You're interior sick.

It looks good.

No, I have no regrets.

We can't.

I can't wait to be driving that much.

I gotta see if they started it today.

They were supposed to start the fucking thing today for the first time.

All right.

Are there any bits in this car that are...

...cribbed from other cars that we should...

Of course.

Yeah, okay.

Is it a challenge to find them?

No, not ones that we see or touch, though, right?

So the air vents.

That's something that you're gonna see.

You're gonna touch, but for a small company to engineer...

Sure.

...impossible.

It took Aston.

How many years did it take Aston Martin to use it to make the road air vents?

All right.

So just tell me.

Give it to me straight.

What are they out of?

I'm not telling you.

Fuck you, tell me.

No.

Okay.

Fine, discover.

That's your assignment audience.

Windshield and air vents.

Let's go.

The air vents, to me, look like Honda Civic.

They're not.

Okay.

They do look like...

Right?

The New Civic S-I vents were very nice.

Well, like the brushing work.

But they're very narrow.

Which I think are very specific.

Our favorite was the Volvo.

Some of the Volvo ones, but they just wouldn't fit.

I know.

That was Aston Martin's favorite, too.

I will say that the opening shape...

And all that is not carry-over.

Oh, it's just the actual mechanism.

The mechanism behind.

Oh, okay.

So it's a little knob thing and how it rotates and slides.

That's carry-over.

The hazard button.

Yeah.

The hazard button.

Now...

We can't possibly be expecting to make a triangle.

Just the turn signal switch, right?

The internal of the turn switch.

Sure.

Yeah, okay.

Well, I mean, you don't see much.

Someone will tell us what that windshield is.

Other than that, I don't know.

It's on the steering column.

That's not the spoke.

But it seems like the goal is, like, everything you touch...

I mean, someone touches you guys have made.

That's...

Yeah, I mean, you genuinely...

You know, I think a lot of companies will, you know,

take even for keys or whatever, right?

They'll take a key like a machine sign.

It's your guy.

It's not great.

And put a new cover on it.

So we try and do better than that, man.

I was just broke.

And the car was fabulous.

And I get it.

But I reviewed the Pagana Utopia for a road and track.

And inside that mother-fucking kilogram key,

they give you a kilogram of pewter or whatever the fuck that is

to distract from the fact that if you open it,

it is a Mercedes fobs.

12 years ago inside of you saying it's really...

Yes.

It's so funny.

One other thing.

The door mirrors.

The mechanism of that is...

The motor.

Yeah, the motor.

And they're heated as well.

Very fancy.

Look, I mean, sometimes you just got to call Bosch.

Like, what are you going to do?

Like, everybody does it.

Like, no shame in that game.

Sometimes we need fuel filters and stuff.

We use Bosch's motor sport windshield wiper motor.

Yes.

Now we're talking.

High speed, adjustable, ready for them all.

Oh, wow.

That's a thing I didn't know I could call Bosch for.

It's very expensive.

I've never...

Is there like an online catalog of their racing shit?

You can just buy.

Really?

Yo, send me that link.

I wonder if I can see what kind of stupid shit I could buy for my regular car.

People are like, yo, I got a tune.

I got 80 horsepower.

I'm like, yo, you should see my windshield wiper.

I have...

I can fling eggs a hundred yards just by fucking cleaning my windshield.

There's one company that makes wipers for like the 24 hour of Nürburgring.

And it's $9,000 just for the wiper motor.

Whoa.

I'm sure it's amazing.

Yes.

Sick is wiper motor.

We didn't use that.

We used the Bosch one.

Yeah, yeah.

There's probably okay, too.

Yeah, but they also sell that one in like an Aston Martin Valkyrie package.

And it's like $35,000.

Sick.

All right.

Well, this is awesome.

Do we have some questions from the people?

All right.

We get to that.

Remember, Zach and I and our buddy Christian James Hand are coming to Houston and Dallas, July 24th, 25th smoking tire live.

Get your tickets in our Instagram bio or in the show notes of this podcast.

Dallas is going to sell out for sure Houston's on its way.

But come see me and Zach.

Have a couple beers.

Let us roast your car.

And it's going to be a good time out at the shop club in Dallas and Houston.

And of course, if you want to ask us questions for the show, get the show live.

Get the show before everybody else.

Have an ad-free listening experience, exclusive access to collabs and new merch before anybody else.

patreon.com slash.

Oh, plus extra podcasts.

I forgot about that.

patreon.com slash the smoking tire podcast, the best website in the world.

It lets you take care of your boys over here without an oligarch deciding if you find us or not.

That's what I'm talking about.

Let's go to the people.

Zach, help me out here.

There we go.

Oh, okay.

Our fans have some, our patrons have some pretty good user names.

Automars.

Automar Piaget is Audi, Morris, and Pujo.

I'll give it to you.

Okay.

It says since oil stain has a theme of craziness, are there a customer requests that you would deny to preserve the quality of the cars?

Any color you won't paint a car, anything you won't do to a car.

It's always a price, right?

I mean, look, I don't know.

Some people, some people would outright say no.

Other people, there is always a price.

We've had some pretty interesting ones already.

I feel like I can't reveal the craziest one.

But yeah, like a texture all over the car.

Exterior.

A texture.

It's velvet, isn't it?

They wanted velvet.

It was, yeah.

It was something where we genuinely had to think about like,

did Ralph Lauren ask about all around leather?

Yeah.

King Ranch, raw hide.

It's going to be the oil stain rodeo.

Remember when Foggin' they did that?

Roof to that?

Remember the roof rodeo?

Yeah.

I swore that was for Ralph Lauren, but fucking hell.

Always, always was like, I swear, it was not for Ralph Lauren.

Don't, Ollie said that's his favorite one.

I was like, I mean, it's not my favorite.

It's not the, but like it has leather on the outside.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

Chris from Colorado, what process during development was the most hurdle to cross?

Oh, that is so easy.

I mean, the carbon tub, anything involved with the carbon tub.

I mean, he's put, what, 8 million cars on the road to programs and stuff.

But no carbon tubs.

Carbon tubs are really unique in that, like everything needs to be defined before you go to production.

So even like your door shock, like you need to know the stroke and where it mounts,

because you can't really bond stuff.

You can't weld stuff.

You can't do anything.

Yeah, like once it's made, it's made, that's it.

Exactly.

And so it doesn't fit, you have to like go make another one.

Yeah.

I mean, that was, yeah, two and a half years.

And then the hardest part on the tub is like the front wheel area.

Because you have, we have extremely wide tires.

What are they?

275.

275 on the front.

And you've got to get them to spin, not hit the occupant's legs.

You've got the crash structures.

You've got the arrow pass-throughs.

You've got the suspension kinematics.

That area was probably eight months of just rebuilding, rebuilding, moving, rebuilding, just nightmare.

I can't argue with the aesthetic of the tires.

It seems to me that 275 fronts is a lot of front tire for a 2000 pound car.

It probably would make do just fine with like 235 fronts.

Wouldn't look as cool, but it would probably work, right?

Well, you'd get a, yeah, I mean, you'd get a, you know, I think modern cars are moving towards a more 50-50 split.

I think you can do some interesting things with the kinematics.

So we always struggle with warming up the tires, even on our old car.

Because it's light.

It's not like an EV that weighs, you know, 5,000 pounds, but.

So what do we just talk to?

That had to get, who are we talking to?

That had to get a new tire, oh, Gordon Murray.

He wasn't talking about, no, who are you talking about?

That had to have different tire compounds made.

Because the car was so light that regular tires were designed for whatever weight.

And it was so much below it that they couldn't get heat in the tires.

I feel like that was Gordon Murray.

But I don't know, but is that what you're talking about?

It's too light to get heat in the tires.

Exactly, yeah, exactly.

And so, but we also wanted a really different driving experience, right?

And so, you know, I think the Gordon Murray, I mean, in many ways, is kind of a spiritual sort of similar to the compounds.

Gordon would like it.

Exactly.

That's his cuddle.

But they use much narrower tires on T-50 front and back than we do.

And, you know, we're not going to, like, go do compete the same.

You can't, oh, Gordon Murray, Gordon Murray.

You just put your hands on it.

I'm like, oh, you're way Gordon Murray.

No, welcome gentlemen.

What you just said about the hardest part was that front wheel area.

Yeah.

And I'm just curious if it really does need that tire.

If that tire is an aesthetic choice, which is fine.

Or if there's maybe something I don't know, and I think in that car really needs more tire than I think it needs for 2,000 pounds.

We like mechanical grip, right?

Yeah, there's that.

There's also the track package that has like the crazy slicks.

Oh.

Those are a lot wider than that.

That's actually good.

Oh, cool.

So it's going to say this actually isn't enough tire.

Yeah.

So this is real fun.

This is the baby version.

Okay.

What's the track on the back?

Or the track version.

That's what three.

It's like 95.

It's a group.

It's a group C.

395.

Yeah, that's a tire that exists.

It's a group C.

It's a slick.

Oh, so it's like what would be out of 962 or something?

Yes.

Like a sourcing nine.

Something like that.

Yeah.

And so yeah, I think another important thing is like the car is really designed.

The tub.

The strength of it.

It's so overbuilt for the base car.

Because there's obviously later on, you're going to.

You're going to do a track pack.

Okay.

Chelsea DeBeau for these says, how many clients have asked for other motors,

if any, and what have they asked for?

I mean, so far, not really a ton of choices.

You're offering two.

Yeah.

I think people are fairly happy with that.

Of course, there's the occasional request for like a B8.

There's obviously not necessarily for this car, but you know,

there's talks of a flat 12.

Let's say so.

Okay.

Yes.

That makes total sense.

Yeah.

And you should get one.

Yeah.

I think too loud for Laguna means well, but.

Might have missed the assignment.

Here for Matt's cats.

Oh, for everybody.

What is the single biggest limiting factor to road car performance at this time?

I often hear tires.

Dude, the road.

Like, every medium sports car is so fast that the road is the performance.

The world is the limiting factor.

Right.

Like, what performance are we continuing to seek?

Like, they're very fast.

They handle amazing.

They have crazy grip.

Everything stops really well.

I mean, I said cars were lighter, but in terms of like outright speed and performance,

I'm pretty sure it worked good.

If you're, yeah, if you're talking about driving a road car on the track,

then sure that that would be the limit.

Right.

But then you throw arrow into it and then there's the limit goes up.

Yeah, and slicks and whatever.

But, yeah, I mean.

Yeah.

That seems like it can be any performance.

The car, all of the, every car is way too fast for the road.

Every.

What's keeping us from going fast?

Really fast though.

Yeah.

There is absolutely fantastic.

Right now.

That's what's keeping us from going fast.

My own desire to not die is the only thing that keeps me from going faster up,

Angela's crest.

Because if I go any faster, I probably would keep our way too fast up there.

It's not that they're fast.

It's that they cross the fucking double yellow like assholes.

Going fast isn't the problem.

It's going fucking on the wrong side of the road around blind corners.

Right.

And people do it all the time.

Right.

And that's how you die or kill somebody.

I'm going up there tomorrow in the morning and I'm like,

I'm genuinely nervous now about someone else fucking up.

If someone crashes into me and we don't die, I'm going to beat the shit out of it.

Yeah.

Throw them off the cliff.

Yeah.

Do you have to take your car?

I want to.

Oh, good.

Yeah, it's like on a ticket and show off the interior and stuff.

We have so many press cars right now.

Yeah, but I have to choose between my car and the Mazda 3.

No, no.

We also have the M5 touring outside.

Oh, that's our.

Yeah.

We have the flat six motor sports, 715 horsepower,

Carrera T manual transmission right there.

Oh, all right.

You can take any.

I don't care.

Matter of fact, I do care.

I'm taking the M5 to my doctor's appointment and you can take the Porsche up the hill.

All right.

I'll do that.

Show my teeth.

I thought you might like it.

I know we had four press cars.

Three press cars.

We have three press cars right now.

It's actually sort of problematic.

Okay.

Jerry was.

Jerry was a steak F1 team kick salver driver.

Love it.

Any and all primus references immediately moved to the top of the list next time.

Thank you very much for this PSA.

What would be the feasibility of offering an HF 11 in center drive?

Anyone.

Did you guys ever think of a three seat or center drive?

We did.

Yeah, I mean, originally we thought about it.

There's actually an interesting speaking to a couple T-50 owners.

There's an interesting thing with center drive is that they actually have to like relearn when they get in the car because they, you know, you used to having this much space.

Yeah, yeah.

And so like, yeah, man, I'm like nervous.

I'm going to hit things and like, you know, so it's cool.

I don't.

It's like less social, you know.

You're like.

Very true.

I don't know.

Yeah.

We're more, I think we're maybe more traditional of like just the two seats and fun.

Yeah.

I drove a, we got, we went out with Dario in the T-50.

I agree that it is a little less social.

And if, man, if you didn't want to fuck with Gordon with the tires, I think maybe going with a three-seater might be a bridge too far.

I don't know, but.

I do agree.

It is not quite as social although as a passenger, it is a fun and unique experience.

Of course.

Yeah.

I drove a center drive 911.

This customer of ours had one can done.

And it was a three-seater.

No.

It was really, I mean, it was fucking cool.

Actually, it was cool.

Like, for all intents and purposes, like worked, like stock.

And you'd get in from the left, and the seat was on a slider side to side.

So you'd get in on, like you'd get in on a regular car.

What generation?

997.

And then you'd fucking hold the handle up and go, you slide to the middle.

And the normal car center console was now on your right.

Okay.

So the shifter and all the buttons were here.

Yeah, no, no, no.

And you can do it because the car is on the middle, you know?

This is the car.

This is literally the car.

And it's what it do.

So, you know, actually not bad.

They did a pretty good job.

The fit and finish was pretty decent.

They sort of made this carbon dash and then they took the left side of the stock dash

and sort of shoved it to the middle.

I'll give them like an eight.

And so, but the moving of the shifter introduced some kind of slight slop in the linkage

and it wasn't like you'd want from a Porsche.

And also moving the steering wheel added an additional sort of knuckle or something.

And so there, there's the console.

Honestly, it was neat and a fun and interesting novelty.

It's done very cleanly, you know?

Yeah, with their rear seats or no.

There were.

Yeah.

There was the standard Porsche back seats and you could kind of like, oh, they're folded down there.

But they exist.

And yeah, you could sort of sit.

Yeah, exact.

The photo on the right hasn't showed the back seats.

I swear to God, dude, when the guy dropped the car off, there were two girls in the back.

One was his girlfriend and he goes, and this is my girlfriend's girlfriend.

I'm like, all right, homie.

Have fun in Ibiza.

You know what?

Someone's laying in the dreamer.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

This guy was a character.

This one.

But it was neat.

It was kind of neat and funky.

Christian says with the Ferrari F80 be the first Ferrari halo car flop.

I think it's already sold out, dude.

It doesn't matter.

What it looks like.

How it sounds.

Did you see in it?

I haven't seen it in person.

I've seen photos.

I don't think it's particularly pretty.

I mean, sure, it goes fast, but didn't do it for me.

Oh, wow.

Okay, that's way too many words.

We need to study that.

But we'll save the ones for oil.

They're not for oil stain from the next one.

Man, sorry, wrong number.

That's pretty good.

That's great.

The maniac chair looks amazing, but as a fat guy will be able to get out of it once I get in.

I could.

I found it to be very, very comfortable.

I think you probably can.

Unless you're like really fat.

But it was really, really comfy.

I want one.

Is it possible to make one with the headrest that's slightly taller for me?

Okay, cool.

Yeah.

Chappy says bring back the 917 style wheels on the HF 11.

Yes.

So the slicks that are at the shop there already have those.

Okay.

We have an updated version.

That's the track wheels.

Yes.

Bob Robb.

Oh, dude, shout out to Bob Robb.

Remember, Bob Robb?

That's one of the original whistle tips video from back in the day.

It was like one of the oldest viral videos.

Okay.

Fucking go watch that.

It's still funny.

But Bob Robb says L is manks selling the radial engine as a standalone.

It would be awesome in a bug.

I'm sure that they will sell you an engine.

I don't see why not.

What is the standalone price?

I want to say it's something like 40 to $50,000.

It's very expensive.

But it's fucking cool.

And it will fit in a bug.

The original prototype in Australia went in a bug.

And they also put one in a 356.

Okay.

Bad gardener says, how was the McLaren F1 so fast?

Rather, how is it that so few modern cars are going as fast as it did?

500 horsepower per ton is a lot.

But there are several cars that can do that now.

And most seem to tap out at 220-ish despite the tech.

The McLaren F1 had no downforce in the drag.

They took the mirrors off everything.

It was a neutral car really.

And Andy said it was the scariest thing he's ever driven.

Just because something can go to 41 doesn't mean it's recommended.

Or they're stable and comfortable at that scene.

Not a sheer.

And I know.

And I think there's probably other cars that would go faster than that.

But are limited by tires, limited by all kind of reasons.

Gearing or whatever.

Yeah, but I do remember where Andy was like, yeah, once was enough of that.

It has a drag coefficient of .32, which is basically the same as a Ferrari 488.

Yeah, but the Ferrari probably has much wider tires.

I don't know.

The Ferrari could be playing with that number.

The McLaren was like 17s.

I think that is the front tires are like 215s on the McLaren F1.

Yeah, I got the drag.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

All right, we can, the rest of these we can say for our crew show.

Thank you very much.

OK, Jesus Christ.

Lutus legend.

He'll end on this one.

Lutus legend said, do you think proposed roundabouts in Malibu

will actually reduce accidents?

They finished construction in one of my area two days ago.

And so far we've seen people going backwards around it and one person driving straight through it,

like it was a four way.

I realize this is anecdotal.

I think you will have some very stupid people in the first few days of changing any .

It's not just roundabouts.

They changed the light over here by a by our shop, the big one.

It's sent to no one's pulvera.

They made a bike lane, a proper fucking bike lane.

And they read, they changed the timing of the signals so that the bike lane,

so that people wouldn't turn right across the fucking bike lane.

Of course, for the first three weeks nobody had any idea how to operate this lane.

And the stupidity I saw was crazy.

Now it's great.

So Lutus legend should hold the fuck on for just a little bit and be happy that somebody went through the middle of it.

That's very funny and that nobody died.

If people are going backwards around it, maybe they're British.

Have you considered that?

That was major and good one.

Are they sorry?

How many people have drifted it?

Has anyone drifted it?

Let's see, Lutus.

But places where they're aroundabouts, even in America, the traffic is moving beautifully and so on.

Boys, thank you for coming.

I really appreciate it.

I assume we're going to see you at the quail.

Yeah.

Aren't you going to be showing your car?

Yeah, we'll be Motorlux quail.

Exotics and somewhere else.

All the things.

All the things at Pebble.

Okay.

So if you're going to exotic sun Broadway, if you're going to car week, exotic sun Broadway is free.

You do not need a ticket to get in.

It's mostly hypergars.

But I think there's going to be some concepts as well.

I think the Nilo will also be at that.

And yeah, Zach and I will be at all the things also.

We'll see what Motorlux.

I'll have the radio manks.

Nice.

Maybe we put a radio in one of these.

It's called Phillips.

Yeah, that goes.

Maybe you can fucking slow it down a bit.

What if you could do like, what if you treated radials like rotaries where you had multiple

radios on a connected crankshaft.

Yeah.

And it was like, what would you call a T, if it was like a T12 where it was like four radials

in a row.

I think you can.

You know Michael, you know Michael that mayor's name?

Yeah.

I think Michael Rice.

Yeah.

No, not Michael.

Oh, what's his name?

He lives in San Diego.

But he was telling me that I think you can stack them.

Whoa.

And Jonathan, the British guy is their radio specialist.

He's the guy who installed was doing my power.

Okay.

Yeah.

It seems like you could.

I mean, if they stacked V6's for S and R and V12.

It's like a lot of motors, you know?

Yeah.

Now, I think we're talking.

That, I think you need to put the ration.

Right.

Three by three and nine.

Yeah.

You could put that.

In a nine fucking eleven, bro.

I want that in a boat.

I think that's a.

To me, that's a fucking.

That's.

I put that in a donzy, you know, like or like one of those boats

that were like a, you know, like a lake speed boat,

where you've got just the fucking motor sitting behind you

and it's got a gas pedal instead of like a throttle.

It's got foot.

Yeah.

One of that shit.

Okay.

So go see VHF 11 concept at exotics on Broadway.

Or any of the other ticketed things they just mentioned.

And well, stay in lab.com for pictures, videos, images,

and some dope ass merch.

That's right.

And the maniac chairs.

And we're going to talk about how I can get one for my house.

Now, we'll see you guys next week.

Get tickets to our show.

Come see us in Texas.

If it goes well, we'll do it more.

And thanks everybody.

Bye.

About this episode

Nikita and Ilya Burdan from Oil Stain Lab return to discuss their journey from conceptualizing a fictional race car to building a real one. They share insights on the challenges of car production, including the complexities of designing a carbon tub and the evolution of their project from a design consultancy to a full-fledged car manufacturer. The episode dives into their innovative approach to powertrains, including options for both combustion and electric, and the unique features of their upcoming model. Their passion for automotive design and engineering shines through as they navigate the hurdles of bringing their vision to life.

aerodynamics Bugatti combustion engine DC fast charges EV hypercars F1 spec flat six architecture ground effects car GT3 spec Gunther Werks

Alfa Romeo GTV Alpine A110 BMW M3 BMW M5 Cadillac V16 Ferrari 488 Ferrari F8 Tributo General Motors Ev1 Honda Civic Mazda 3 / Axela McLaren F1 McLaren P1 Morgan 3 wheeler Morgan Aero 8 Porsche 356 Porsche 911 Porsche 917 Porsche Cayman

Original notes

Nikita and Iliya Bridan are car designers behind the incredible and interesting Half-11 hypercar. They both spent years designing for various OEMs and have now struck off on their own. On this show we talk about the incredibly difficult development phase; making two powertrains work in one car; why an EV swap interests them; the hardest part about building cars; expensive windshields; what inspired them; and so much more.

Recorded July 17, 2025

https://www.oilstainlab.com/

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