But Do You NEED Mud Tires?

SFJ 4x4 Studios presents, in my oversized four-wheel drive Jeep, a Jeep podcast starring industry

experts, Cura Monocity, with mad scientist Scott Brown, our host, Neil Simpson, if one light

goes out, they all go out. Bill Bush and Annie. We are really professional with Jeeps. This

is I Speak Jeep. Good morning, afternoon, evening, wherever. However, you are joining us. This

is the I Speak Jeep podcast presented by SFJ4x4.com. My name is Neil, and I'm very

sure of it. And I am joined in Grammyscouch Studio by two fine gentlemen. The madest mad

scientist slash engine detailer, squeak remover. I appreciate every bit of that that you were

taking care of, just so you know. And the producer, Jeff Fremonti. The Italian stallion.

And we're in Grammyscouch Studio on a, it should be kind of a run of the mill Monday and August,

but we are preparing to head to Smoky Mountain Jeep Invasion. Now, you know what's a funny

thing now, I'm not going to ask you, because you wouldn't know anyways. Jeff, how do you

spell Smoky Mountain?

SMOKEY.

So apparently, that's wrong.

Yeah, it's just the Y, no E, right?

It is just the Y, because that particular mountain range is just SMOKY. And how often,

if you were to go to the book of faces or the YouTubes and the internets, it will be

spelled with an EY. And I had a good friend in the industry, Josh Rupert from Iron Rock

Off-Road was like, he was just like, totally dogged me the other day. I texted him and he

was like, try it again. And I was like, what the heck do you mean, try it again? He was

like, spell it again. And I was like, Smoky, you know, SMOKEY, which is the name of my

cat, just anybody wants to know. And he was like, nope, still not right. And I was

like, I mean, he was just totally busting me, you know what I mean? But yes, it's

SMOKY, Smoky Mountains. And just so you are all, you know, particularly privy to it,

depending on when you hear this podcast, whether it be into, you know, streamed

into your ear holes or on the YouTubes, you can look for me or our Jeeps. And we

will have Jeeps displayed with different industry partners. We have J5, that gnarly

over the top fire engine red gladiator, ecodiesel on tons and 44s, thanks to

Mickey Thompson. And it will be in the Iron Rock Off-Road booth for the duration

of the event. Sporting their eight inch long arm lift kit, which if you do or

don't know, does not exist for a diesel. That's a testament to what our team here

is able to do. And we will have the famous, internet famous, hashtag not

a restoration, swamp donkey, as restored by the mad scientist and that beautiful

load and green paint job that you've seen in a number of events. That's the one at

Toledo Jeep Festival 2024. I lifted up. Jeffrey had made us some some weight

supporting Dana Spicer crates. And I suspended the Jeep, set it on the crates,

and it was displayed kind of, you know, hovering. I still remember that because

you said, Hey, can you make me a crate to do this? And I'm like, Yeah, I got

you. And I made it. And you're like, Cool, and I'll do it again. I want

another one. Yeah. Yeah. So we had the jeeps totally stacked up on the crates.

It was pretty cool. People took a lot of pictures of that. Talk about it, you

know, pretty often for going to events stuff. We won't be doing anything that

elaborate at the show. I'll be honest, I'll just be happy to get there. And

then I'm hauling Cookie Monster down as well. Darn thing still doesn't run

right, but whatever. It's like my own personal cross to bear at the moment.

I've got like three electrical problem Jeeps that I've taken personal

responsibility for. I own the fact that they're not running. That's on

me. Not anybody else. We're the other guys. The rest of the guys are busy as

snot. And I've taken I've taken responsibility for these electrical

jobs and they are just kicking my butt. With that said, I got to take a

break. I got to get out there to where the Jeepers are. We've always said,

Well, we want to meet the Jeepers where they're at. And so we'll have

these Jeeps at in pigeon forge. So look for us there and swing by I'll

be Oh, I didn't mention hashtag not a restoration. The hashtag not a

restoration will be at the crown automotive booth on display. Yes. So

look for me in either of those booths. Let's selfie. Let's talk. And, you

know, we'll tell lies about our Jeeps and our adventures that we have or

haven't done. And it'll be a good time. So I'm going to jump to the

comments real quick, because we've got Nate saying good morning. He was

first again, but we're getting written up today because he said you all

late and say Nathan work man. I thought we were he goes. It was it was only a

minute today. So we're getting we're getting a warning this time. Last

time it was a full write up. Last time he got salty. Yeah, I know. Joe

said good morning. Robert said morning. Bill McWilliam said good

morning. Billy Joe says good morning. Bill McWilliam said I hope

everyone had a great weekend. We'll talk about that at the end of

the episode. Charles says good morning. And then Jeanie is on her way down

to Smoky Mountain right now. Can't wait to see Cookie Monster.

Outstanding, outstanding. And, you know, we good morning to all of

you. Last comment just came in. Do we have any Sims family Jeeps

shirts? We absolutely do. You can log on to sfj4by4.com. Check

out our merch section there. We'd love to sell you a shirt

sell and ship you a shirt. If you'll be in Smoky Mountain,

I'll just bring it with me and I'll I'll hand deliver it. I'll

personally deliver it to you. So save on the shipping costs.

That's assuming you get your order in today. True that I leave

tomorrow. Yeah. Then for today we're going to talk about mud

tires. But before we get to that, we are talking about mud

tires. There's a couple songs about that. Oh boy. Before we get

to that. Yes. And before Neil starts singing about them.

Pull up the lyrics.

There's I'm I'm I'm here. It comes. Here it comes. Good. So we're

gonna I'm going to read through some of the reviews that

have come in. I actually remember to grab them and

bring them back to the studio this week so that I could

read them. So you just trumped Neil because he can't

interrupt now because we forgot him last week. Well, I

literally had him sitting printed out on my desk. So

last week after the episode I went and grabbed him and

brought him back here. And then a couple more came in at the

end of the week. I printed them and brought them straight back

here so that they're ready to go. One of the reviews titled

awesome show review one of the best off off road shows

great specific Jeep content with lots of technical repair

info. Love the shenanigans as well. Keep it up. Then

there is let's see. Great Jeep info I have learned about

many different Jeep shows to put on my list to visit. This

one is intelligence at its finest. These guys are great. Yes,

they're all that in a party size bag of chips. They know

their stuff and thoroughly enjoy sharing their knowledge

with the Jeep community. They've got to be listening to a

different show. I was thinking right. And then we've

got casual Jeep talk. Thanks for an entertaining and

informative podcast. Best Jeep podcast out there.

Genuinely entertaining. These guys are full of

information. And then something and then we've got quality

podcast. This podcast is perfect for anyone interested in

anything Jeep and or off road. The guys at SFJ are

extremely knowledgeable about pretty much everything Jeep as

well as being entertaining. They also have an awesome

listener who can be the first to comment live whenever he

wants. So tune in live on Mondays and join the race.

You know, I read through this one and I went who can be

first whenever he wants. What does he know that we don't

know about being able to log in first? I he he knows some

kind of hat inside job is right. Something something

we appreciate everybody who is taking time to you know,

review and rate the show. It's our understanding and gosh,

we really appreciate we're pushing, you know, just just

shy of 100 countries listening to a six out of seven

continents. And and you know, one of the things we were

looking at the metrics, which are awesome and well

supported. And then we were kind of comparing them. And

we were like, man, what there seems to be like like a little

piece that's missing. And we started doing a little bit of

digging and research and we started comparing ourselves. And

not that we're not that it's a competition, not that

it's anything we wish the other podcasts out there the

best of you know, that that they can do and whatnot.

But as a, you know, kind of as a group who is always trying to

do a little bit better, right, do one more thing to make

ourselves a little bit better. And we were like, what what is

it seems to be like something's missing. And I think it was

Jeff goes kind of Jeff's territory, he goes, we really

don't have that many reviews or rankings. Then we started

looking going, Oh, that actually is a big part of

the metric of whether or not the streaming platforms rank

or support pushing the podcast out to other

individuals. Yeah. And so while we are consistently ranking

in, you know, this arbitrary three to five top off road

Jeep talk podcast, we have very few reviews, very few. Now

now thanks to you all that is changing. So thank you so much

for making that a priority and taking that time. We're going

to give you some swag because of that. And Nate said he

didn't know who that reviewer was, but he likes him.

Andy and James Highlands are saying, where do we rate the

show? You can go on to iTunes podcast and rate the show right

there. We're going to Spotify and you can rate the show there.

I believe Spotify only lets you do a star review doesn't let

you actually do a written review. But iTunes and write a

review. Yeah, it's not Andy and James. That's just Andy.

Oh, let's just say okay. I don't know. It says Andy and

James. No, no, it doesn't say Andy and James. That's his

middle name. Oh, is it? Come on, Jeffrey. That's his

middle name. Yeah, Jeff, God bless it. There's only been a

customer for I don't know, 11 years. I don't know. Built one

of the gnarly, he and his dad built one of the gnarliest

TJs. Why do you guys have seen? Why do you let me produce

the show? Because you're really good with microphones and

sound quality. Thank goodness. Thank goodness. So going

back to comments, Nate did come in and say I love my

Canada Cleaver MT twos. We got Jeannie saying am I going to

have to play wears Neil this time? Always always you have to

play wears Neil. Matt was saying good morning. Jeannie said

she wrote hers out but didn't have time to get it into you.

That's fine. And then that I think catches us up on the

comments. Sure. Sure. Sure. And I have a secret for how

you find Neil. You just yell Marco really loud. Oh, I can't

control myself. He can't control himself and he yells

polo back. That's true. That's true. We do that at the shop all

the time. We literally have built a maze. We literally did it at

SEMA to him as you should. Oh, it was great. I can't control

myself. It's a it's a it's an instinctual reaction. It must

be said. I it's it's not that's not even a fallacy. Oh,

dear. Why am I so predictable in that regard? Why am I so

weird? People don't understand. I just don't act. None of this is

that's part of the problem. Wowzers. Wowzers. Well, so we are we

did not choose a winner for this round yet, but we will by next

episode have a winner selected will announce who that is. So

if you want to get a couple last minute reviews in now's

your time. There you go. There you go. Well, we're

going to keep it going. We've got a minimum of two crappy purple

straps. Yep, we got so you got two, two rounds. The first round

will be chosen by next week and then we'll do it again. There

you go. So we got time. Keep keep keep bringing them in. We

are going to be talking, you know, mud tires. And if you

do want to hear about us personally and those types

of things, we encourage you to stay stay tuned through the

outro and we'll let you know what our weekend looked like. But

in the interim, as we mentioned, Smokey Mountain, that will be

happening soon. I am intending to power drive through from the

end of the the event. A lot of people don't understand and

kind of think that like, I don't know, things just kind of

miraculously, you know, wave the wave the wand and things

happen. But myself, the team here and obviously other

vendors, we power drive to and from these events and then

we're back to work on Monday. So the plan is as of next week,

pending everything goes well, we'll be podcasting again. So

tune in to hear how that go that went and just coming down

the pipeline Labor Day weekend. So Labor Day, we will not

have an episode. That's correct. So I don't know we

may have something pre recorded. It's kind of to be

determined based on current schedules of everybody. But

yes, well, and just because things go sideways doesn't

mean we don't have a podcast because we've had him

from Florida. And I was going to say, I was in

South Carolina podcasting from a song room. It was

wonderful. So we will prevail. We will. One way or another

there'll be an episode next week. Yes. I don't know about

Labor Day. We won't be live for sure. That's true. There

may or may not be a prerecorded. There you go. There

you go. So I don't know why I feel the need to say

mud tires and mud tires every time. Just a nihilism. I

guess. I guess. Did you ever find the lyrics? No, I

didn't. I stopped looking. That's good. So I think I

have to. We were looking for a topic and what this

popped into my head because we recently traded in my

wife's old car and got a new car and I put just tires

on it and the people at the dealership were like,

Oh, those are awful meaty tires. And I looked at

them like they were had four heads and were

strange. So I thought we need to talk about tires

perspective of tires and the differences on tire

treads and why or why not you would want certain

tires. So I thought we'd start with the first and

fun mud tires. And I thought that was a fantastic

suggestion on your part because we have a customer

in and they I gave them multiple options for

tires that they could pick and we have talked

about different types of tires and construction

in the past. Obviously, we had a conversation

with Mickey Thompson that, you know, talked all

about tires and performance and whatnot. And in

the past, we've talked, we've touched on hybrid

tires and, you know, we've shared our ups and

downs of all terrains and whatnot. But we're

going to focus in today on mud tire tread design

and technology. Kind of the pros and the cons

of those and why or why not you may want

mud tires and I'll admit, nothing looks as good

as a mud tire on a Jeep. Correct. No matter where

it's at, it could be covered in mud, it could be

at the show and shine, it could be going down

the road with that hum. Looks awesome. It's

what you expect. And as I was mentioning, this

customer, I gave them, it's a plow truck

and a daily driver. Yep. And I gave that

individual. Meaty tires. Yeah. And I gave

that individual three or four different

options for tires and the hybrid and things

that would perform well in sleet, slush, ice,

rain, snow that you would be using this thing

predominantly in. And they literally, after

kind of, you know, going through the negotiation

process, pushed back and they wanted a mud

tire. And I was like, I don't recommend this,

but here it is and that's the one they chose.

So it's funny, you were out, but he

actually came in because he wanted to see his

meaty tires. Oh, yep. Oh, yep. Took them over.

He's like, yep, those will do. Wow. Yep, that happened.

Wow. I wasn't ready. Okay. So let's talk about

the design and function of, of a mud

tire. What makes them different from an

all terrain or. We can't proceed until you

say mud tire, right? Come on, Jeff. Come on,

Jeff. Perfect. Lame. Lame. Mud tires. Mud tires.

There you go. All right, so you got to talk

about the void ratio on that. So Scott,

what the void ratio? Yep. Well, obviously the

more voids, the more gnarly off road points

me and Neil gave you. And we all, Neil and I

grew up with the, you know, sadly it wasn't

any jeeps because they were all rusted

into the ground at that point, but they

were jacked up Chevy square buys and

forwards on TSLs and boggers. Yep. And you

would hear them for at least four minutes

before they actually came into the line of

sight. You would hear them homie. Man,

that Mickey, we, we, we turned out a jeep

last week and they didn't know, they

didn't, the owners didn't know what

you don't know until you know it,

right? And so we did a whole bunch of

maintenance service, but by that time

they had Mickey Thompson, beautiful Mickey

Thompson, I want to say MTZ tires. Yes. And

they were just chopped. Very chopped. They were

just very chopped. So we rotate them

around and we lower the air pressure

which actually just makes them sing

more, makes them sing more. And I, I've

got to tell you, I think that we could

probably, that jeep probably registers

on a Richter scale right now. It just

hums and I think the ground shakes

as the paddles go down the highway as

it drives. But they still can't compare

to a bogger on pavement. I love boggers

on pavement. So what we're talking about

with voids, and if you're in a bogger

it's fist-sized. Yes. Between the lugs.

Well, because you need to be able to

drive over a Volkswagen Beetle and like

and swing it out from the tread. Perferred.

Right? And it just needs to, it needs

to just be schleffed out of the tread

design. And that was, you know,

kind of what started off-road

tires. There were very little options

back then. So you just kind of had the

TSL's and that kind of stuff that you

could go to. Well, wait, wait, wait, wait.

We had ground hogs. Well, okay, you did

have ground hogs. There was other

brands, but not as iconic. Correct.

As a TSL. As the Super Swamper.

Yeah. Super Swamper would just kind

of broke the mold and did their own

thing. And it kind of made the rest

of the companies take notice. Sit

back on their heels and go, huh.

Somebody made a tire that I could lose

my small child in. Yes. Maybe I should

try to make one as well. Correct.

And yes, we had the ground hogs and

Winston made some mud tires and

BFG, you know, pulled their head out of

the sand pretty early and tried to

make their version of the mud

train and they made it for ever.

And then when that got old, they did

it some more. And then when that

got old, they changed the look pattern.

And in true and in true big business

fashion, Firestone still basically

makes the exact same try design.

Everybody else has moved on. Yeah.

But the Firestone Destination

MT is this god-awful, horrible, stinking

design and whoever has a handshake

agreement at Jeep is like, we should

still put those on Willys packages.

Absolutely. And so that we could

take them right off.

I have never seen a tire shop so bad

in my life. Yep. There's a reason the

whole industry has moved on. When I

was shopping for my Gladiator, I was

wanting a Willys package. I literally

would go up. Oh, it's got Firestones

on it. Never mind. Nope. Move on.com.

Yep. So the void is in between all

the lugs, gives you the bigger

gaps that helps clean out the tires,

mud, rock, clay, whatever. But then

that also gives you a more aggressive

sidewall as well. It does, which is

where all the brownie points are won.

And that's a big piece that vehicles,

as far as tire technology, over the

years, we have not specifically had a

high focus on sidewall design up until

air quotes recently. Yeah.

The crown or the crest of the tread

design used to be, you know, more

of a sheer face when it came over to

the sidewall. Basically, you would have

your primary tread design that the

load of the vehicle would travel on,

and that would contact the terrain

or road surface. And then the

sidewall just kind of drops right off.

But those particular tires did not

perform particularly well in off-road

situations. Now, we did have the

caveat to this was within the

military and then eventually the

civilian market, we had the NDTs,

which were not good in any direction,

non-directional tires, which were not

good in any direction as the Joe.

Correct. Unless you want to drift on

water. But the theoretically, the

sidewall design did crest over the

crown or the side. Well, depends on

what one you were in. World War II,

they were a little bit more shoulder.

That's true. In the Korean War,

they're just, they saw an

airplane tire and they're like,

we should do that and put tread on it.

Yes. And that's what they did.

It's very round. Very round, very bulbous,

very balloonish. And the NDT at least

in the early years and still produced

by Coker, you can get ones that have

some of this sidewall lug, but it's

not, it's not pronounced, it's not

refined as we now have a high

focus on this real estate on the

outside of the tire that actually has

a lot of benefit when you are off-road.

Especially when aired down.

Yes. And really, you know, again,

back in the day with those jacked up

trucks, all we were worried about was

the tread kind of that we had on the

tire. And then we realized as that

market got saturated, how do we

identify ourselves? How do we make

someone go up and go, that's cool,

I need that. And that's where the

side bites and the fancy script

names and the bold things on the

tire really started to catch on in the

nineties where people are, you know,

putting flames on tires and they're

doing all kinds of crazy stuff, rocks

on tires. I saw all kinds of stuff.

They're trying to make you take notice

and make you want to put the tires on

because it doesn't be honest. We

weren't doing it for quietness. We had

to like take the rule book for tires

and just throw it out the window

and then the dog might have done

something to it out in the yard.

We didn't care about quiet, we didn't

care about life where tread wear,

any of that. We really much

doing it for looks. Now, real quick on

voids, why do we want a big void on a

mud tire? Well, that's because we're

basically imagine your tire is a

shovel and you're just shoveling

your way through your obstacle. Yep.

And that's why self cleaning tires

are a thing because they throw the

mud out of the tread so they can

grab another handful of mud and

keep on going. If you ever had an AT

in the mud, like I have, you know, once

they fill up with mud, you don't have

any traction. Yep. And I was going to say

the whole look thing, I mean, I would

add to that caveat is that you had

the kind of the extreme ends. You

were just doing it for function, right?

There was a group, a percentage of

people who were literally just doing it

for function, those initial mud

tires. Well, those original tires, they

were one thing fits all markets.

Someone was using them professionally

for use. Someone was driving them on the

road because they look cool. Someone

was buying them just because that was

the only tire they could find in that

size. Later on, as those markets

started to refine, that's when we

got into the stickies and the

performance tires as out west, we

got more popular and more serious

and as you get more and more people

involved, they bring their money with

them and now people have to take notice.

Before that, they made one product and

they just expected it to be a Swiss

Army knife and do everybody's job.

Well, and it was because I feel

like, let's be honest, the bar was

kind of low. We weren't using our vehicles

like we are today. Absolutely.

Right, and that is the only kind of

thing that I want to make sure that

our listeners like totally get because

I think that it's fascinating to me

how that can be lost on some people

that they encounter their Jeep

and their foyer into the off-road

experience where they're at right now

in 2025 and it's like, yeah, you know

what, 25 years ago, we didn't have

half the tire technology that exists

right here and now. Go 50 years ago,

we had even less and, you know, how

we're using the Jeep and how we're

traveling 70, 80 miles per hour,

you weren't expected to do that in your

bogger per se. You could, but.

You're taking matters into your own hands.

Yeah, yeah. And it was very common back

then that you would buy your bogger,

you would buy your TSL and you would

get your hot knife out and you would

make more voids and you literally

had clubs that had a hot knife guy

that knew the secret sauce for that

train and as that got more and more

common, those tire manufacturers started

taking notice and that's where our

tread patterns started evolving and

that's why Firestone still makes a

tire that kind of looks like when they

carved up one of those original tires.

Sure, sure. And that's, I mean, and

that's the thing is manufacturers any

viable manufacturer will progress to

what the consumer market is doing.

Retreading, not retreading but

re-grooving tires within the general

populace is less than what it used to

be. Absolutely. I would tell you just

even 10 years ago I knew a number of

people who are still hot knifing

tires and I don't even see that

anymore and I think that's so

fascinating because now you can

just buy a quality tire. A quality

mud tire of sorts and so to kind of

let our listeners know where our mud

tires good and where are they not so

good? Well they're good in the mud.

They're not so good on the street

even though they look cool. They're

really good at in the show and shine.

Oh they're banging in the show and shine.

Just use your water base protectant on

the tire. Otherwise Greg will get you.

Oh my god, if you want to get Greg going.

It's against his religion.

If you use a silicone or a

silicone petroleum based tire shine

his his eye will start to twitch.

You just pull the bottle out it'll

twitch and then you spray it on the

tire and he's just start the vein

will pop. Yes, yes. Even the silicone

base he doesn't like it. It's got to be

water base. It's got to be water base.

So it is good for mud.

It is a common mentality that it's an

off-road tire. Yep. But are there

certain obstacles off-road that it

actually can hinder you? If you get

in sand, no bueno. If you get in a

certain rock depending on the

hardness of the tire. A wet rock

especially. If you have a hard

tire with lugs on it it's just going to

go up to the rock and spin on it and

make smoke. Which is exciting.

Burnouts are always cool. Right.

But that does not get you up the rock.

Even if you sit there and spin it on

the rock for like a half an hour

and I've always heard somebody in the

car it's going to get warm and

sticky and it'll go up the rock.

Not always. But if it's good in mud

then it's got to be good for

winter wheeling right? No. No.

Definitely not. Definitely not.

Because in the snow if you dig to the

bottom now you're stuck. Yep. Because now

the snow is in everything. It finds

ways in the things that you just

wouldn't imagine. Also it lacks

oftentimes mud tires lack sufficient

bites and sipes that will clean

out the small ice and slush that

becomes trapped in there. And again

we're in a great world today with all

kinds of tires. If you really want to

see why this is the case look at your

firestone destination and then look

at a snow tire. You'll see real quick

why in the world the firestone is

absolute garbage in the snow.

Which is why we just shake our heads

that Jeep put it on the four-wheel

drive vehicle in northeastern Ohio.

Right. On a production model.

On a production model. On a deal with

lots to an average consumer. Yes.

So let me ask you this. Can you get a mud

tire that is also decent in snow.

You can find something that does okay

in all methods but is it the best

choice compared to a tire specifically

made for that purpose. Oh that's a

great contemplative like like I'm

trying to make you that was a

scottism. That was a scottism avoiding

the answer.

So here's the thing so there it has a

lot to do with the compound of the

rubber as well right when we seek to

have a swiss army knife of perfection.

You've got the compound and the siping.

Right. We sacrifice somewhere else

because siping is not always to our

benefit when it comes to cleaning

out right so big big mud tires we're

really trying to have big voids of

that void ratio. We're trying to

make sure that we're not loading up the

tire with again slush ice mud clay and

the sipes would load up

theoretically in certain situations

but a softer rubber compound and

there's a number of manufacturers off

hand Cooper comes to mind Cooper

tends to be a softer compound.

People like the compound of Nitto's.

Nitto's compound tends to work well and

allow those manufacturers to get the three

peak certification on a tread design

that might be more aggressive that might

be more of a mud terrain suited design.

So if they can create a compound that

has good wearability but is the

derameter of it is softer meaning

it's pliable but not going to burn off

in summertime usage because that's the

other problem with stickies.

Stickies will burn off if you're using

them on the highway right and if you're

unfamiliar with what a sticky is there

is a line of tires that tire

manufacturers have produced specifically

for off-road utilization and those

are the ones that back in the day

when JP was the thing and you'd see

this tire and it was like folded over

a rock right it's like giving the

rock a hug it is the equivalent of a

dragster's rear tires yes and they you

know when that dryer when that dragster

loads up the tire and it and finally

the sidewall locks up and wrinkles that

that sidewall it's the off-road

equivalent if you will for specifically

rock terrain whether it be slick rock

or grippy rock you're not technically

or typically using say a sticky in a

Baja situation you're not necessarily

doing a show and shine with a sticky

and it was really common when those

were really a thing again back in the

magazine days where you would rip a

lug off the tire if you're if your

rock was too aggressive yes and so

so we're not talking about a compound

that's so soft that it's burning

off on on regular daily use and so

this for the tire manufacturers it's

this balancing act of trying to

create a a tire that meets the aesthetic

and functional needs of today's market

um while also making it you know year-round

utilization and well that's that's where

the hybrid tire of of rugged terrains

become real popular absolutely and and

they allow to give you almost that mud

tire feel and look but the compound

that allows it to give you that the

durability and the lasting power of an

altering and specifically an aggressive

sidewall design correct yes right and

that's the other piece that's newish to

the conversation and i really think that

right there shows you that it's really

not good for the mud terrain to try to

do that that's why they literally made

another tire segment instead when that

demand started happening where they're

like well i really want to tire that

my my bros aren't going to pick on

me too hard at at the jeep meet and

i could go off-road even though i'm not

mm-hmm i'm only going off-road once or

twice a year but my mud tires are like

driving me and saying my wife won't ride

in my jeep and and i only got a year or

two out of them because of you know i

i screwed up my pressure and i wore them

off on the road sure so that's why

the hybrids happened so that people

that really wanted the mud terrain the

guy that wants them on his truck

even though it's not a good idea

exists though because otherwise it would

have such changed the mud tire it wouldn't

exist it anymore

so the uh back to the snow question though

i wanted to specifically bring up that

there's two different types of ratings

you can get with a mud tire uh besides

just straight mud you can get a mud and

snow tire yep and you can get a three

peak mountain snowflake on your tire

they are two different designations and

why that is the case because snow

actually you know if anyone's built a

snowman snow will stick to snow so if

you can get some snow to stay in the

tread and not immediately throw out but

there's a fine line there where you

don't want it to become a snowman

so you have to have just enough snow in

the tread that you can have it cling

to the other snow to help you get

forward progress but not to become a

snowball to impede the wheel well to

make forward progress so that is what

he's talking about is there is certain

tread designs at one time a young scott

did really like his winston mts and the

snow and would have swore on a book that

that was the best thing ever no well and

and if it's if it's mud and snow rated

that just means that they've designed it

to work better in snow but it's not

been performance tested correct where if

it has the the three peak mountain

snowflake it actually has met a

certain standard it's a minimum standard

but it's met a standard and one more thing

on snow the biggest problem with snow

is i don't remember i feel like i should

i'm quoting somebody but i don't remember

exact words you have light fluffy snow

you have thick nasty snow you have

sleets you have all the above so it is

really hard to have one tire that

works great across all of them on the

cross all those snow and then if you

get ice in the mix just and quite

frankly and quite frankly the

individual who's down in the everglades

wheeling their jeep in uh you know in the

swampy uh you know offshoots of floor

mudbuggers doesn't give a flying fig

about mud snow rating or snow or three

peak mountain on that on his pit bowls

and and so the funny thing whatever

happened to pit bowls like right

honestly i actually looked into it for

a hot second and they i think they

went to funk somewhere around the

covid run um it was such a cool

looking what's that we should have a

moment of silence for pit bull

okay that was enough so i it was a cool

looking tire i mean talk about all the

rc cars uh all the rc people united

over pit bull tires absolutely um i

think they sold more rc pit bulls and

they did actual you know for

vehicular purposes absolutely um you

know mud tires is is an interesting

piece and in the sense that we have

certain i mean tires in general have

premium manufacturing and then they

have economy line manufacturing

um obviously within the industry

especially a tire that's potentially

risk associated meaning you could

get into a bog and scrape on a rock

or a piece of concrete or a stick and

you could blow up in a sidewall you

don't want it to be super super

expensive also if you're intending to

drive that um vehicle on the road and

you're going to burn through tires

every two years you also don't

necessarily want to be uh you know

paying a five six hundred dollar tire

every time but a mud tire is

inherently more expensive but it mud

tires are inherently more expensive

but what we have done then is we've

opened up the market to a whole series

of import tire manufacturers probably

most famously uh is going to be mild

star and i'll just put it out there

and and and i just i i feel like you've

never like we people have not

obsessively talked about tires um

like the mild star people have like i

was involved in another one this

morning um it's one of those

situations where if you change enough

variables you can prove your tire is

good and and i think i think that is

honestly a factor you know when you go

to the forums and you talk to people

and they'll swear by a tire that you

personally have had bad experience with

i think it does come down to there is

a driving style that affects the way

the tire operates and and yes so

there's the general the general bell

curve is going to fit under these

rules of the tire but then you may

drive very differently than the general

bell curve and you may get a different

experience on that same set of tires

someone come in and be like oh no

what we've been doing for the last 40

years is actually wrong because our

tires are special and we have to go the

opposite direction to make them last

i start to get an aneurysm right but

i say you have the you have these

ends of the spectrum right and so you

have affordable tires um you know i

hear nathans in our comments talking

about his kendo's kendo actually has a

pretty fair carcass design the only

problem i've had with kendo's to this

degree is they they appear so far our

experience to go out around more than

a what i'll call a premium manufacturer

but they actually spin pretty decent

i've heard most people having a pretty

good experience with them i think

they're a more robust compound so

they're not as soft for say that

winter use from what i understand or

know about kendo as a manufacturer

they're a big big agricultural

manufacturer overseas and they're an

always an interesting booth at sema

here in the states they really like

vintage vehicles for sema i'm always

amazed that their booth the last few

years they've chosen like wagons or

willies pickup trucks and stuff like

that so i'm not really sure what's

behind the kendo team here in the

states but not a bad tire but you

have this kind of from affordable to

then expensive and i think it's

interesting

um the good year wrangler duratrack for

example which is not actually a mud

tire

yeah it is technically more in the

all-terrain sphere but good year does

not have a more aggressive tire than

the mtr is dead oh the mtr with a

kevlar infused mtr absolutely because

kevlar helps everything yes it's less

likely to be punctured because of such

reason especially when you shoot at your

tires

correct well we were talking about how

tires and driving style it's interesting

to me i talked to people who

uh the good year wrangler duratrack

is in my opinion one of the first

hybrid tires and i did not think it

was a great all-terrain now um

but quiet well i've actually had people

who feel like they're loud you know

what i mean and and or they were

through them fast right well that's an

expensive tire by comparison they don't

have them they're very proud of all good

years

yes um the funniest story just made me

think of it uh in the past life i used

to work on service fans all the time

and they the drivers wanted meaty rear

tires because they were two wheel drive

vans and they got stuck all the time

and we're talking uh you know a

typical industrial type straight tread

steer tire is what most of these trucks

had sure so when you're on the back

roads where their office was and they

don't plow because it's ash peola

short they got stuck all the time

so they would put mtrs oh on the back

of these vans oh yeah huh yeah

uh mtr had its had its heyday we should

we should put that on uncle bob our

postal carriers uh oh yeah many times

we've had to push him out he gets stuck

in the lot every winter yes that poor

man uh i guess my my thing is just

whether it's an affordable tire whether

it's expensive tire i've heard people

swing um praise and criticism at those

tires regardless absolutely and i think

it has to do while i do think that

you know certain quality control issues

do arise and i do think that

production batches and manufacturing

and compounds do change or ever so

slightly have uh interesting runs

associated and we know from a conversation

with our friends at mickey thompson

that where their um

baha line is made it actually gets

too hot in the summer to make tires

i think it's so fascinating or to make

this particular line yes um that that

is shift production they shift

production they literally get up and

look at the temperature and go nope not

today nope not for the next six weeks

yeah you know and and so uh you know

there is a human aspect of quality

control that happens they say that in

some plant or factory elsewhere maybe

it's a little too hot maybe it's a

little too cold maybe the machine

runs a little too long or a little

too short or a tire doesn't get

thrown uh sent through the entire qc

line and you can get a bad tire which

can take your experience as a customer

service individual yep um it's not

necessarily the fault of the of the

retailer the installation shop or the

whole manufacturing of the tires as a

whole and then insert blems uh which

is why every port jeeper has as loved

on a blem now and then if you're

not unfamiliar a blem is obviously

short for blemish the only one that

just immediately comes to mind is

cooper cooper sells their blems into the

aftermarket inner co and the super

swamper series used to sell blems as

well yep uh they sold them for about

half to third the cost of an actual

you know air quotes uh quality checked

tire yep um there was actually a

number of individuals specifically in

pennsylvania i don't know why it

jumps out to me in pennsylvania but

i guess there's one in ohio that i

can think of who their business model

is selling cooper blems

i wonder how that's changed or not with

some of their big merger acquisition

they've done at a corporate level uh the

cooper itself but there's a couple

smaller businesses that they exist to

sell blems and speaking of it just made

me think of it back in the day you

wanted a cheap mud tire and it had to

be a 37 and that you had to find these

special rims for mm-hmm what were you

looking for uh well i remember a

young neil oh well so excited yeah

humby 16 five man yep and they were an

mtr at that time they were they were a

Goodyear tire yep um and they were uh

military spec uh hum hummer tires and i

love them so much and the funny thing

is uh if you are a jeeper who's who's

graced uh our community within the

last 10 years you might not not not

even know that 16 fives were a thing

yes at one time and 24 uh stud beadlocks

yes well not those stupid not those

not those stud eight or 12s right and

then you went to 24s you really wanted

that high high quality one and there's

oh there's so much to the beadlock back

back to your blames conversation for a

moment uh rob's saying cooper used to

sell blames and he he seems very sad

about this i was gonna say does cooper

not do that anymore like i said i i

wonder because they've had a lot of

corporate merger acquisition it's

hard for the budget minded jeeper

mm-hmm especially in the last 30 years

yeah we've seen things you know on the

rise you could and you still can

reasonably pick up these military

tires for cheap um on surplus auctions

but considering we're not uh we don't

have the h1 uh at that level and we're

not using these tires and 16 fives

are a bad 16 fives have a bead

design issue is really what it comes

down to folks yeah um which is makes

perfect sense why the military used them

ah that's such a weird conversation

because they're actually not good for

off-road yes um inherently at a 16 fives

uh wheel itself or by today's standards

if you've encountered the jeep world

you are light years ahead of where we

were even just 15 20 years ago you

know um and uh that tread design it

actually lasts pretty well it's actually

a really pretty pretty good design

tire the carcass itself it's just not

great for off-road purposes unless you

have it on a beadlock specifically

yeah anything else jeffery you had in

your production notes about mud tires

themselves as far as the values just

see uh the the fact that they are

going to run hotter on the highway

they're gonna they're gonna burn

through the tread faster so you're

going to replace the tread or the tires

faster you got to rotate them more

often if they're uh old school tread

design firestone they're going to be

bad in the rain yep i would caution you

to when you're looking um if you're in

the market you know kind of be

conscientious about your intended use

and purpose of these tires uh

additionally you're going to bite and

sip technology has only improved and so

i know we're really dogging on firestone

they're the only ones seem to not get

with the times um that you got to look

at their hashtag not sponsored

yeah

not sponsored we're going to get a

cease and desist letter for this one

folks

um but uh man uh they bite and sip

technology you can get a mud tire um

we can cease and desist when they cease

and desist that tire

yeah there we go so anyways uh

so look for the bites and sipes if you

are going to do a mud tire for kind of

your your swiss army knife uh rubber

i did put a couple myths in this one uh

so myth mud tires are always better off

road no no because they they're great

in mud and in loose terrain but they

can underperformance no ice and

rock and i will argue if you're in

that like serious of mud you might

need ag tires you might not need mud

tires that's fair um and then another

myth bigger is always better

oh you did that just for neil didn't you

all right well i was gonna say that

clearly is not a myth uh that is

truth uh in reality it can actually

not be better because it could rob from

your torque it could hurt your

uh drivetrain when you build a cheap

so these are things you make up for

that in cool points and none of

that is relevant so what awesome

saying is that knowing that you're

going to upgrade your tire size you

should consider what other upgrades need

to go with it because you should not

put 44s on a stock axle me shouldn't

build a jeep with one tire size in mind

and gear it and lock it and all that

stuff and then go those look really

dumb on there and i need to put 35s on

it instead of 33s and now suddenly your

gear ratios off and the whole build's

just gone the stuff you know i don't

care about the gear ratio we're not

we're not going to talk about that

Scott did that just so we're all in the

same page yeah he did that

oh and uh Nate's saying mud tires came in

handy at bandim this year i'm sure they

did absolutely the golf carts needed

mud tires this year yes

yes um there are a couple caveats you

know there is a conversation if you

ever look at um some of our friends

to uh the greenland iceland esk

areas those guys are a whole

different they're a whole different

animal yeah the tires are big floatation

devices you just like them because they

put really big tires on you do you know

that i mean so i'm going to differentiate

on you which one is which because

they're they're completely different

types of terrain

well uh honestly i think that these

guys are actually wheeling greenland

but i don't green let greenland is more

ice correct but i i i i authentically

believe that these individuals and i

know that actually they have a large

representation in the four by e

community which i think yeah so they're

actually um so here you want to talk

about myths versus realities

i would tell you on good accord as an

individual spends a lot of time in the

four by e forums that they are among

the individuals who broke the cheat

code on the gear ratio for the four

by ease

huh because they needed those giant

floatation uh esk tires with aggressive

lugs to go through the you know through

the terrain in the area

um and uh they were there was actually

a large population four by ease now why

i don't know why the four by ease end

up there and that's

also if you haven't seen one of these

it's basically a wide body

four by four with tires that make the

forty fours looks small correct

correct oh yeah they're spectacular

so that we're talking but of course

they're moving very slow over the

terrain yes and it's it's intended to

float over this soft permafrost

inspired uh terrain but

realistically i i genuinely don't know

and i it's kind of doing a disservice

for our listeners there maybe somebody

in that vicinity will will reach out and

share with us

um whether those individuals i could

obviously fact check it myself but

i'd rather hear from a listener yeah

it's not fun uh whether it is

specifically greenland or iceland and i

understand the the differentiation in

the names

yeah um i'm not that guy i just don't

know exactly where these jeeps this

conglomeration of of massive jeeps are

offhand but super cool super cool

tire design now there was a mickey

thompson tire at one time which i

absolutely was a mickey thompson or

was it innerco it was an altering

and it was touted for sand because i

feel like we didn't talk enough

about sand um sand is also about

flotation right so just talking about

you know these different designs and

whatnot

um just in at the risk of sounding

dumb but you know whatever wasn't the

baha claw known for sand

baha claw absolutely was

which that was a mickey thompson

yes oh yeah yeah it was the baha

claw was a mickey thompson actually

directional mode tires

and and interestingly enough uh it's one

of the ones that is at this point time

which feels really uncomfortable to me

is considered an iconic uh mud tire

yeah and and so there are people who

are doing period builds who are

looking for new old stock or gently

used mud uh mud claws and there's

actually just like the same group of

guys who are looking for old school

kc's there are there's a group of

individuals looking for old school mud

claws um i know for a minute the old

school oe or stock mtrs were also that

yes for the guys wanting to restore

their rubicons yes for rubicon

restoration it still hurts me a little

um but this was a tire and i'm drawing

a blank on it at the moment and it's

a great one that in the in the groups

that i hang out in where bigger is

better always this was a big flotation

designed a tire uh with a swooping

interlocking pattern and it was

intended to be an all-terrain tire

um and it was just dismal it worked

nowhere it might as well have been a

non-directional tire except for sand

yeah it was an excellent sand-based

tire um but it was sold amongst the

mud tire when you really needed paddle

tires but you just wanted to drive it

there correct that's exactly right

and so i think that there is a value

in making that difference differentiation

that mud tires uh that have this

paddling or to go back to your shovel

inspired tread design um do not always

cross over well because those sand

paddle tires are all about high

horsepower and fast digging

whereas most of your sand travel is

not that because if you do that on the

outer banks the the locals are going

to be very unhappy with you because

you're going to tear up the air quotes

trail or terrain of the sand if you're

doing that the objective with that

type of sand wheeling um is to have

flotation so whatever the tire size is

you want to be down uh you know six to

twelve psi and you want to float on

top of the sand uh to the best

durability and a mud tire is

inherently not better in that terrain

as well um but appropriate pressure

will benefit you sand drags and mud

drags are going to be different right

so that's about picking the right uh

the right combination for your specific

interest uh this was fun um and if you

want us to continue this and talk about

hybrid tires and all terrains and and

all that kind of stuff go on leave us

review and and let us know that yeah

and you can reach us directly on our

text only number don't call it but

text us at 440-855-2100 uh you can you

can call us 440-813-3663 extension one

or you can obviously email us contact

c-o-n-t-a-c-t at sfj4x4.com

you just log on to the website buy your

merch leave us uh an email do something

like that um and let us know how we're

doing and what other topics you might

like to hear in the process uh like

i said before i'll look for uh you know

friendly faces at smokey mountain if

we've never met before this is a great

opportunity to do so um and let him know

about topics you want us to hear us do

yeah and cover uh that is always

welcomed because i'd like to i'd like to

talk about all terrains and uh how i

feel about bfg these days oh boy um

here we go that maybe but we have to

hear from you we have to know

whether or not that's something you

want to hear uh i suppose we've got a

bunch of jeeps to build and obviously

we'll tell you about our weekend plans

or what they were um after the outro

here but we got to wind it up because

we've got a lot to accomplish in a

short period of time until next time

jeep on jeep on jeep on

so fitting uh just always works out

this way i was putting new tires on

my wife's car meet some meaty tires

some meaty tires on her Subaru and then

i promptly screwed up and mounted them

the non-meaty sidewall way which neil

was not a fan of i was not i was not

here for it no i uh no because did you

do all four that way or did you take

my god bless i said just drive around

with one wonky tire yeah he screwed

up the first one or just break it down

quick and fix it no it was it was

we were having a party here saturday

we were um everybody was here

yeah it was kind of fun i wasn't i know

you i didn't get the invite you didn't

you were not invited it was a preempt to

you just had to be in the circle you

just you had to have like the the

nature of the universe and the vibes

that were going on um

gym class heroes was playing an area

i'm good oh that's fun no it was

it was a good time though you know he

was fixing wiper blades my daughter

was putting lug nuts on uh my son

was helping push down tires and my

wife was dismounting and mounting

tires so it was a family affair as

always mm-hmm so and uh we had my sister

and brother-in-law were picking up their

jeep uh after i mean it was nine

nine o'clock at night or something i

don't even know yeah a family reunion

at nine p.m yeah and and and we pulled

in and i was i was helping out a

family friend of ours and um

bay door was open it was a beautiful

summer night and it was a grand

central station it was it was

hysterical but um you know they we

talked a couple weeks ago that Scott

and Amy um bought a new Subaru and you

know nice nice machine but you had

negotiated uh the cost of some new

tires into this this you know

transaction and so we buy some tires

um we actually put all terrains on it

yep uh despite the fact that you know

the average consumer would put just a

standard passenger vehicle tire on there

yes and it's very controversial on the

Subaru groups sure right and and for the

dealerships right absolutely um because

it is always so fascinating talking to

people who work in tire shops or

dealership level stuff that our

understanding of what a meaty tire is

throw that out the window i mean

there if it's not a industrial you know

kind of straight tread design well uh

highway tire they're they're thrown

through a loop they don't even know what

to do with them they really are on the

Subaru groups going i put bfgat's on

my on my Subaru and this is it going

to be too loud now i'm like that's what

we put on a g point want to be quiet

right yeah like holy crap like we're

what i mean i'm having an out-of-body

experience right now well and and it's

to me mind-boggling that Subaru which is

towed it as this great off-road capable

vehicle doesn't like all-terrain

vehicles their wilderness package

tries slightly slightly that is aggressive

for them like lip service to them that's

a mud tire though correct i i know

well so anyway so many of these tires

the way their molds are are made they

have an aggressive sidewall outer sidewall

they have the party side and the the

business the business side and you went

business side well he he caught it up by

accident he was tired he was going through

the motions and he you know it's late

and he he mounted it with the business

side out or the versus yeah i would call

it the party side is the more aggressive

side correct but that's how i am i'm

cut you know right my cloth i would

have preferred the party side but i

was like you know what i'm gonna see

how it balances and it balanced

beautifully and i'm like and i was like

i'm right here don't break it down

retire you got three more to go

just mount the rest of them correctly

and and i can't believe he did a thing

we at the end of the day we did agree

it's our street vehicle it's for the

family trips it doesn't need to

scream hey i'm i'm you know a bad

but off-road so we compromised

yeah that's cool story dude that's awesome

so but adio the really important update

for me is uh after like three the four

years i don't even know i don't want to

even think about it uh my son finally

got to take about six laps in his go

car i was before it broke twice twice

currently broken in the garage i feel

that nice but at least he finally

got to drive it he did and you know

him and his sister big smiles driving

around the backyard was all worth it

i purposely geared it so it was not

going to do 100 miles an hour i gotta

say for you know the the enthusiast in

me i was not prepared how slow it's

gonna it actually was yeah now you're

going tim taylor things and you got

a power he needs to grow into it

okay he needs to get bored with the

speed it is and then we can make it

better but it is sadly slow like i

don't even think i could make the back

step out if i wanted to i tried a couple

times so do you actually broke the go

cart jeff i'm going with that guy

yeah scott's raising his hand for our

listeners at home i mean the chain did

come off on aid and twice but i may

have lost the master link because i

goosed it it's going around a corner

well now you know what it can and

can't do and where you can make it

better and uh just because the last

time it broke just to make me feel

better we did take uh go around the

block in this in the side-by-side and i

literally got up to amboy and was like

wait a minute so i actually had to turn

seal on they go back home i was like i'm

gonna go over and see if nil's there

yeah and they were not we were not so

i had the photo bomb you did photo bomb

in front of my house that's awesome

we're here where are you yep that's

awesome uh you know and for my own

purpose of the weekend it's pretty

underwhelming because i'm not going

to be around this coming weekend and

it's right before school starts my wife's

a teacher um we did a lot of we you know

kind of did a lot of family stuff i'm

trying to enjoy the weather while we had

it

but i i i keep toying and tiptoeing

into uh building this little cheap tj

and so i resurrected it out of my

driveway this weekend and um i i want

i want desperately uh i you know

people who are close to me know that

i have a propensity to drive you know

pieces of garbage yeah and uh he wants

in the really be like at a certain

level garbage correct like correct it's

current daily most people would say is

hot garbage but he oh it's too nice for

him it's too nice for me you know power

windows and i know i know when they

work um i know so i i i did get that

jeep out and i did you know kind of

kind of you know kind of show just

the little ounce of love as opposed to

just just totally you know throwing it

onto a trailer and going to

womp on it off road which is what i'd

really like to do um but i am trying to

get to that position where i can uh

more confidently you know get to some

off-road events and not even an

overly built or show-esque manner but

just kind of get out there and and

get in the woods a little bit

just because it's something i haven't

been able to do much recently so i did

do that

uh some general maintenance on on some

jeeps i had a nice blend of automotive

and and personal inspired stuff myself

this weekend um not too much on the

house projects other than um other than

then yard and and life maintenance

stuff wireline looked really nice

yeah thank you thank you

jeffrey bring us home so i went to

celebrate eerie for the weekend um uh

with our our partnership with voodoo

brewing and our non-profit we were able

to set up right there and be right on

state street in the middle of celebrate

eerie without having to pay for a

booth space um we were directly across

from what they call the the living room

stage

they actually have four stages for

celebrate eerie they have living room

stage they have family stage

they had the peri square stage uh

and then they had the main stage but

did they have grandma's couch in the

living room they did not right

what a fail right yeah so um it was

really cool being directly across from

the living room stage because uh that

is a lot of local artists and the vast

majority of them are either in our

competition coming up or have been in

our competition so it's really cool to

see that and and to hear full sets of

music from some of these artists that

have competed with us

um there was a great opportunity for

networking i got to meet a lot of

great people some up-and-coming

stories uh people that are building

storefronts in eerie community and and

how that all works um there was a great

rally of community support because

sunday morning a storm came through and

the the current story is that a

water spout actually made landfall and

took out state street basically which is

where all the vendors are at uh there

was tent scattered for three four

blocks from where they originated

wow merchandise up and down the street

it was it was chaos coming into it on

sunday and the the community that was

there was all cleaning up setting up

tents repairing tents on site bringing

new tents in for vendors unfortunately

probably close to half if not half of

the vendors did have to leave sunday

morning wow because of how much

merchandise was lost but there was

still plenty to do plenty to see it

was a great time i had enough support

for our table that i was able to walk

around with the kids on sunday

so that was cool i haven't been to

celebrate eerie in a decade uh so walking

around with the kids and getting

them to experience celebrate eerie was

a good time there was a sanai gym

which was really fun they had an

obstacle course ninja course set up

for kids it was free for them to do

and so we set up the kids and and

you're going to probably be able to

predict exactly how this went

okay but i really wanted to share it

so we have xander morgan and lily all

lined up ready to go

um

the the morgan wants to go first he's

eager to do it

so the guy that's there supporting all

the kids and helping make sure they

get through

they've got you know the side steps

you have to jump across as you run

then they had the the little bounce

platform that you jump up and grab

the rings and then you go across the

rings they got the spinning wheel

ring and everything a couple of them

you go across that then you run to the

the wall and you have to run up and

grab the rope and climb the wall yep

yeah so it's a really fun little course

ninja ninja warrior code yeah it's

perfect

the guys there ready he's supporting

every kid as they go through

morgan blazed past the guy and he

just threw his hands up he's like i

can't even there's nothing i can do

to help him he's done

he goes but where's he where's he

involved at yeah he's not like

well he's taken ninja courses somewhere

nope yeah well he's he's got to have

some experience in nope yeah they're

like get him in a gym now yeah

he he basically set the record for the

course i mean it was it was crazy and

then of course

um zander's next and and i i mean

gotta love the kid he tried he tried

his best at one point he's hanging

on the rings and he's just spinning

in circles

he's not grabbing the next one uh and

lily our youngest she she made a pretty

good effort uh and she she made pretty

good progress through the course uh they

did it two or three times throughout the

day lily beat zander in progress oh

yeah yeah oh yeah oh yeah zander's just

he's such a kindred he's nice he's

he's a great kid but he's not athletic

no um no he would be the one that as

someone else is struggling he'd be

commiserating and helping them and he

was so defeated because he couldn't make

it up the wall but his hands were beat

right because he just kept trying and he

was determined i finally had to stop

him like buddy i i love your

determination but there's a line of

kids yeah you gotta go you gotta go

and uh he he tried it over and over

again and the the last time of the

day when we went back he's like i i

really want to get up that wall and

you know i'm sad that everyone else is

i was like buddy watch watch there's

seven kids ahead of him one of seven

made it up that wall i was like it's

not an easy challenge i love that

determination though i was like i love

that you're determined to do it but if

you can't do it it's okay that just means

you gotta try harder practice and and

maybe next year we come back and you

try it again how awesome so it was a

lot of fun doing that and then you

know just finalizing some network

connections coming forward i've got

uh Wednesday i'll be on eerie news now

for their their couch interview for our

upcoming event which is only two

weeks away at this point yeah

best of luck with that um as i

mentioned before if you guys are

looking for a cool just a a somewhere to

drive your jeep and and be involved in a

neat community um you know get head down

to uh to jeff's event coming up a labor

day weekend otherwise if you got plans

you know best of luck to you it's a

nice long weekend for camping or

some other uh you know outdoor jeep

journey inspired event so uh again uh

we've got some busy stuff ahead of

us and we've got a lot of jeeps to

get through before we can do it so

until next week jeep on jeep on

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