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Cain on Dealer F&I Mistakes, Kelly on AI Training For Deal Desk | Daily Dealer Live
Cain on Dealer F&I Mistakes, Kelly on AI Training For Deal Desk | Daily Dealer Live
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About this episode
C.M. Dark and co-host Yuli D. Martino dive into the latest automotive news and trends, featuring insights from Marion Kane, CEO of ACE, on F&I strategies and the integration of AI in training finance managers. They discuss the importance of empathy in customer interactions and how technology, particularly AI, can enhance training and performance in F&I departments. David Kelly from Brown and Brown Dealer Services shares his experience implementing AI training tools, emphasizing the need for personal connections in the sales process. The episode highlights the evolving landscape of automotive sales and the critical role of effective communication.
Topics:
f&i strategies
ai training
customer empathy
technology in automotive
finance manager training
catalytic converter theft
toyota recalls
ev sales strategies
video marketing
dealer engagement
Today's show features:
Marion Cain, Founder of ACE
David Kelly, Training Director of Brown & Brown Dealer Services
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We're doing better as a result of social media presence.
It doesn't do those three things, then it's on the chopping block.
It's in return on investment discussion.
Hey everybody, welcome to another edition of the Daily Dealer Live.
I'm your host, C.M. Dark.
And back with us today, co-hosting is the Yuli, D. Martino.
What's up, guys?
Yuli, what's up?
Welcome back.
Excited to have you back on the show.
After a huge Friday, our automotive AI CEO roundtable, guess what the biggest question
I had after Friday was, Yuli?
What?
I got a ton of texts, DMs, whatever.
People are like, hey, you said it's a cage match.
Who won?
Fair point.
I'm like, fair point, but guess what?
We won the viewing audience because we're able to learn so much from those CEOs.
Honestly, some of the most fascinating answers we got had to do with chat GPT.
Like, A, can you upload your financial statement into to a chat GPT?
By the way, to all of automotive, you can't do that.
Do not put your financial statement and or personal customer information, all that
stuff.
They reiterate the danger of that.
But it was a heck of a lot of fun to talk all things AI tech with those CEOs and
really a different audience than we typically have.
And by the way, for anybody curious, we are going to continue to do that because
that type of content helps educate all of us.
We talk about this show being that dealer 20 group.
That's the purpose of this.
That's what we want.
And to you, our daily dealer live audience joining the live stream today, a reminder
we're live across all CDG social media platforms.
Just your comments, we'll bring them into today's show and what a show we have coming
up for you.
And it's made better by your comments.
Coming up today, we're talking F and I, among other things, Marion Kane, CEO of ACE
joins with his perspectives, among other things on adapting new strategies into
the old art of F and I. Plus, David Kelly is someone I know.
He's a national trainer with a company called Brown and Brown.
And he came to me a year ago with an idea.
He's like, dude, finance managers can train using an AI trainer and I'm like, get out
of here.
I can't possibly be.
How does that work?
Right.
But but jokes on me because it did work.
And so we'll share that here coming up.
But first, let's dive into today's biggest headlines.
Today everybody, I just got to check something here.
I got something strange happening on my ear.
All right.
First up today, Toyota is facing a double recall headache.
More than 591,000 vehicles are headed back to the shop because of infotainment screens
that suddenly go dark.
That list includes some of their biggest sellers from 2023 to 2025, including RAV4s,
Camrys, Four Hunters, Highlanders, plus several Lexus models on top of that.
The company just froze sales of nearly 95,000 EVs, including the BZ4X, Lexus RZ, and Subaru
Saltera because of faulty defrosters.
Dealers can't sell them until repairs are done.
Yuli, I got a question.
What if you're in Florida?
Yeah.
I guess it doesn't matter, right?
Defroster to work.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Let us let us sell them 95,000.
But you know what?
Defroster to work.
Defroster to work.
That's not going to matter.
Yeah.
Maybe.
And timing couldn't be worse.
Toyota now faces the expensive task of fixing hundreds of thousands of vehicles while temporarily
losing EV sales revenue just as federal tax credits are set to expire at the end of
this month.
Yes.
That's a fascinating implication for all those dealers looking to clear that out
before the federal tax dollars go away.
Next up today, lawmakers are taking another swing at cutting down catalytic converter
theft with the PART Act, a bill that would stamp every convertible, every converter, catalytic
converter with a traceable ID number and slap tough penalties on thieves and recyclers.
These parts have been prime targets for years because they're packed with rare metals
worth thousands per ounce.
For drivers, replacing one can cost nearly $2,300.
And that's the if the parts even in stock, thefts peaked in 22 at nearly 8,000 a
month.
Oh my gosh.
That dropped to just 14,000 cases last year.
But experts warn that's only what's reported.
Many more never make it into the data.
Supporters of the bill say this could finally give law enforcement a fighting chance since
right now there's no way to trace a stolen part back to a specific car.
It's a huge problem.
Yeah, that is.
Isn't that interesting?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then finally up today, first teased as a concept in 2023, Stellanus has officially
canceled plans for a full-size all-electric RAM pickup shocker after years of delays shifting
timelines and I would also say shifting political environments.
Instead, the company will pivot towards an extended range RAM that pairs a gas engine
with an electric generator, props to them.
That's what we want.
Hybrid.
Hybrid.
Seen as a more practical step for buyers worried about range.
Dealers had been pressuring Stellanus to slow down on pure EV bets and focus
on products that actually match demand and the cancellation will likely be welcomed by retailers
frustrated with Bev inventory concerns.
But it's not just RAM.
Dodge has delayed all its all-electric charger.
Daytona Trim and Chrysler's planned electric crossover has been put on indefinite hold.
Looking ahead, Stellanus is repositioning its lineup as multi-energy with more hybrids
and range extenders coming down the product pipeline.
That's a wrap on the news.
But before we say that, we have to acknowledge we did a recall update at the top of the block,
Toyota.
You know, we now have our M&A jingle.
We need some sort of a recall jingle.
There you go.
So we've got our buy-sell jingle.
You got to hit that again because that makes my heart happy to hear it.
I love it.
That's great.
See?
All right.
So now I want to be able to have my finger on that button.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We need that.
That's what we need.
So well, Julie, as you know, we get a ton of requests to join this show.
This show is the voice of automotive.
And if you want to be part of that conversation, if you want to have a voice in this industry,
this is an incredible place.
In fact, I don't know.
I'm going to say this is the place to come to have that voice.
So if you, dealer, would love to join the show, please visit cdgguest.com, fill out the intake
form.
You'll get the chance to meet Michelle.
She does all things scheduling.
She'll hear your opinion.
She'll hear your take, the issue you're interested in discussing.
And we'll get you scheduled to come on the show.
And your participation, as well as the comments that are coming in right now, help make
this show better.
And as an example, Jason Petpetok says, let's go, boys.
Nate, the truck driver, he's back saying, hello, gentlemen, guess who's here for another
live?
Yoga cars.
Is it worse than Ford's recall?
Are they competing for recalls?
By the way, Julie, you know the answer to this.
Who has more recalls out there?
Ford or Toyota?
Oh my God.
Yeah.
Ford big time.
Yeah.
And you can't, you can't scrap sell catalytic converters anymore without being a licensed
dealer or repair shop.
So Jason says, so my question is, if that's the case, why are people still selling
them?
Because they are absolutely 100% still selling them.
And props to Chad Staples for joining.
He gave us a wave online.
I have a really good feeling that Tay's show is going to be an interesting conversation
on many things F&I related.
Lauren Klein says no one is beating Ford these days in recalls.
And by the way, she does know and she's correct.
Yeah, she's right.
But we're not going to pile on Ford for heaven's sakes.
Let's get into auto industry stuff.
We're going to head straight into it.
With our first guest, founder and CEO of ACE, it's a training company, Marion Kane joins
the show.
Marion, welcome.
I love it.
Thanks for joining the show.
It's such a privilege to be sandwiched next to two handsome gentlemen.
You guys are fantastic.
Oh no.
I'm this close to going to Turkey to get my hair back.
You guys inspire me.
You know what?
It may not be worth it.
Who needs hair?
It's got to save you time in the morning.
Does it not?
Not to have to worry about it.
It's true.
I'm always groomed and I love it.
I love it.
It's a fantastic following you guys.
I always look at your stuff, Sam.
Yuli, every time I look at your feet, I get hungry.
I used to live over in New York in that area.
I would come on down and get the food down there.
It just brings me back, but it's great to be with you guys.
So let's dive into it, Marion, with the first question we always ask every guest
is how's Biz and then tell us a little bit about yourself alongside the answer.
Business is amazing.
It's all blessing from God and I'll just tell you, I'm just a person that has just come
through the business from the bottom up.
I started off, I worked at Price Waterhouse and then I ended up moving down south to
help my dad who was going through cancer treatments and I then got my first sniff
of the car business and the matter of three and a half years I went from walking
in the front door to handling having every position in the dealership from sales to finance
the finance director to GSM to GM, breaking records at every level.
And what I realized being down there and selling, I first started off going with
the scripts, but then I found out that the scripts, they were just turning you into
a clone instead of being a closer.
So I went back to my speaking days where I used to be a stadium speaker.
So I've spoken in 14 stadiums in front of crowds of 40,000 and there's a certain methodology
to when you're speaking on stage because at that point, you have to reach everyone
young, old, black, white, healthy, you know, just depending all different spectrums.
And so I realized that you use those same principles to go one on 10,000.
When you go one on one, it's a breeze.
It's very easy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
So let's dive into it.
Part of what your company ACE does is you do consulting.
You work with car dealerships in the FNI world and whatnot.
Amazon is getting into automotive and they started with Hyundai.
They're now expanding into used and months ago they were on the industry spotlight.
They talked about, they admitted, look, we haven't fully figured out FNI yet.
They hadn't figured out how to get a good FNI adoption rate for VSC.
From your experience, Marion, as a successful producer yourself, but then also as a consultant,
someone who works with, you know, a lot of dealers nationwide, what is Amazon missing
about adoption rates for VSC and other FNI products?
And could they solve for that at some point?
Well, what's happening is that they're looking at a micro efficiency, but they're not seeing
the macro inefficiencies where you look at FNI and you think of it just in terms of someone
going in the back and pitching you products and things in that sense.
But what happens is that truly you're creating relationships.
It's a connection you're dealing with the individual where when you're talking
to them, you're finding about them and their pain points.
That's the reason why I feel it's so important to really first thing, teach the word empathy,
because empathy is feeling their pain in your heart.
It's not just a matter of just pushing products out, this and this and that.
You actually have to be able to relate it to that person, relate it to their life.
And then they're going to be the one that jumps out and says, that's me.
They're going to say that I need that, you know?
Yeah.
And then that creates an ongoing relationship.
So not saying that Amazon can't do it, it's just a matter of in terms of a profitability
standpoint, which I specialize in.
It's just so much easier to do it in person one-on-one.
Okay.
So Amazon utilizes technology to help figure out what to offer a customer.
So then what you're saying is, is technology has no place in FNI?
Like we should not be looking to technology today?
No, no way.
I use technology to the fullest.
All right.
So I love it.
I, hello?
So talk to us about what are the most effective technologies today in the FNI department to
better deliver to the customer.
100% chat GBT.
Okay.
So what happens is when you have chat GBT, you have to use it and you have to take
it to the next level in order to personalize your approach.
So I always recommend my clients first go take a personality test.
I like the Myers-Briggs, you know, the ENTFJ and things like that.
Put that in to your chat GBT.
And what happens is they're going to spit back out to you a breakdown of how you sell.
What are your strengths?
What are your weaknesses?
What are your blind spots?
Right?
Then when you get the customer that comes across from you, when you're doing more
of your preparation phase, you want to plug it in.
Okay.
This person, they're a heart surgeon.
They have three kids.
This is their third car.
They have more of an A-type personality.
They're very analytical.
How should I close them on all these different products?
What should I avoid?
What should I say?
What analogy should I use to bring me into their world?
Because like I told you, empathy is failing their pain in your heart.
So you need to go ahead and do that.
And then you can frame a more customized approach because you have 15 minutes to
gain rapport to create a relationship.
So you said something super interesting.
Tell us in all of our audience, you said, take the personality test and then plug
it into chat GPT and have it help train you and guide you.
How do you do that?
Give us the step by step because I don't understand how to connect the results of
that test.
I mean, you can go find the test online, but how do you plug that into chat GPT?
Oh, no, it's quite easy.
Great question.
I'm so happy you did that.
Is you go through, you answer the, you answer, you go through the test.
The test is probably going to have about 40 to sometimes 60 questions depending on
how in depth you want it to be.
And then it will spit out, if you do Myers-Briggs, it will give you a four-letter
code.
Yeah.
You put that four-letter code into chat GPT because the problem with chat
GPT right now is that it's framed, it's a business.
So it's not going to tell you you're wrong because it wants you to keep
coming back.
Right.
Yeah.
So you have to train your chat GPT personally to give you honest feedback and
then to frame that feedback based on your personality, your norms, your
mores, and then you can see your blind spots as well as your strengths.
Cause that's even more important because I'll tell you a lot of times it
tells me, do not say this, do not do this, literally just copy and paste
your result into the GPT, like into a workflow and say, hey, correspond
with me like this.
Yes.
Revolutionary, not just dealing with your customers, but also dealing with
your whole staff.
I encourage my staff to set, to do your seating based on polarity.
I want people sitting next to you that are the opposite personality
as you.
So when they're hearing you close, they have a problem or
something like that.
They're sending you feedback because I'd rather hear from somebody that
has a different perspective than me, someone just like me.
You know, same thing with dealing with staff.
You know, you have this, there's certain ways to motivate individuals
and there's certain ways to demotivate individuals and it's very
nice to cross barriers all the way through.
I've even seen a lot of success with people using these strategies
dealing with the accounting department.
It's a completely different thought process.
Their goals, where goals are all the same, but how we get there
are two different, two different paths.
But when you can communicate effectively, it bridges those gaps.
So just back it up though, just a minute.
So I take the test, I put the test into chat GPT.
Now chat GPT knows my personality and how to best engage with the customer.
I'm a finance manager sitting in an office waiting for that customer to come in.
How do I connect the dot between my personality and the customer who will be sitting in
front of me?
And do you have specific examples of that working as a strategy?
Oh, I can give you a fantastic example that one of my clients gave me the other
day and actually blew my mind.
So he had plugged in, he went out, you do your pre-interview because I really
believe that F&I is the interactive sport.
You need to be out there in the parking lot, opening the door for them.
It's all about creating that relationship.
And it's more, it's about positioning.
Positioning is the most important thing.
So it's a firm belief in not only how you carry yourself, how you dress, but
it can't be the first time they meet you and see you is when they walk in the
office and you got paperwork all over the place, right?
That's the age-old secret of finance.
Exactly, exactly.
So what happens is that you can talk to the person the first time and it's
very quick to figure out a person's personality type.
That's probably a whole other conversation.
We'll have it another time.
We'll come back.
Well, wait, Marianne, but just wait right there.
Just one second because Lauren Klein is asking the exact question I had.
Lauren is saying, how are you identifying your customer's personality type?
Well, let's get into it.
And I'm curious about that too.
I got mine now, now we got that.
So, but you got to go back to the door in just a second.
But how am I going to identify my customer's personality?
So this is how you figure out someone's personality type.
You can look easily into their correspondence, but you can talk to
them in 10 seconds and you can figure out there's two different
polls on the X and Y axis.
Are they more analytical and logical in their thinking?
Or are they more intuitive and emotional in their thinking?
And then the top access, you figure out whether they're nurturing or
more passive in making their decisions or at the bottom, are they more
aggressive and action-oriented in making their decisions, right?
So you really can just look at an individual where usually sometimes
you can see their credit reports tell you a lot about an individual.
But just talking to them, you can see it with their vocation,
where they're at, okay, and how they went through this thought process.
If you see a whole lot of questions on the appointments and they showed
it with their spreadsheet and their binder, you know, they're analytical,
logical thinkers, you know?
If a person comes through and they have their gym clothes on,
they have tattoos and they're really like, hey, I don't want to hear
all this stuff about back and forth.
They're trying to dictate the terms.
You know they're more logical, aggressive, you know?
If the person comes through and they have like, you know, they're more
artistic and they're flowy and they want to talk about stories and their
emotions and the colors and how it feels, you know that they're more
passive and intuitive.
So now, I understand the customer's personality.
I understand mine because I took the test.
I put it into chat GPT.
Well, chat GPT always remember what my personality is and then they'll
frame, it'll frame the feedback to me if I put a scenario in.
Yes, yes, always.
I use the higher level one.
You have to make sure you use the highest level one.
Yeah, you have to ask it to remember.
Exactly, exactly.
You got it.
So it's something that I'm using all the way through.
And you just keep referring back to it.
And then later on, I'll show you how to optimize those prompts.
Yeah, okay.
I got a funny tie-in here real quick, Sam.
Just one sec because you're talking about four different, you know,
the X and Y axis here.
And it's bringing me back to the finance, my finance days.
And I think Sam's first question was this, how does Amazon solve
for this, you know, process without this person-to-person?
And my pitch was always, there's two types of people, right?
When your car starts making a noise or a light goes off,
there's two types of people.
Are you the type of person that turns the volume down?
Or are you the type of person that turns the volume up
and pretends like there's nothing going on?
Exactly, exactly.
Are you buying a warranty or not?
You want to text the car or you want to pretend
like you got no problem.
So just making me laugh.
So Dan C says online, encouraging to hear
Marion endorse matching up with people
who think differently than you.
And that's a unique characteristic in the world,
but super important in automotive sales
so that you can deliver your best self
to every single customer no matter what.
All right, before we go into video,
because I want to take you into some things you've
said on video F and I across social media and other places.
What are the most important one or two metrics
to gauge success in F and I today?
September 2025 for dealers.
And maybe one that right now most dealers aren't tracking.
What are the most important metrics?
The only thing that matters is PVR.
I'm sorry, it's like, it's how much money you're making.
Everything else is just fluff because that's
at the end of the day, everyone from,
that's the one thing that's synonymous from the top down.
Everyone wants to get paid and everyone
wants to see the margins increase.
And profit is not dirty.
It's not a dirty word.
It's the value, it's the reflection
of what you're giving into the audience,
into your customers because they're going to give it back.
You'll be shocked at the amount of customers
that we sell full platinum packages to.
They come back three years later
and it's the quickest deal because they say,
I want the same stuff I have before.
It happens all the time.
All of it has to really do with how you feel
and what you're given off.
Because people take cues from you on how to treat you.
And if people take cues from you
on how you feel about your product,
how you feel about your job.
One of the first things I'm doing
when I get called in to evaluate a dealership,
very first thing I do is I look at the receptionist
because a lot of times people don't realize
how much money is flowing out
because of a bad receptionist.
That sounds so crazy but it's really true.
The other thing is I go walk into the customer parking lot
and I want to see how many people
are actually driving the brand.
It's a good test.
And you'll be shocked, you will be shocked
at the amount of times I walk in the parking lot
and I can't even tell what brand they're selling.
Because no one's driving it.
That's the major problem that we're having right now
with electric vehicles.
No one has one.
Everyone that has them, they can sell them.
But even down from the top down,
you go to the dealership, you go in the parking lot
and no one's driving one.
And they have a charger right there at work.
And they even wonder why you can't sell them.
So let's talk EVs.
So the clock is ticking right now.
Next two weeks, the EV rebates will be over
and we'll get to whatever norm is, whatever that means.
You have some advice for dealers today
that's relevant in the next two weeks
as it relates to EVs and maybe some things
most people don't know.
Tell us a little bit about that.
Well, it all comes back to my background.
I used to work at Price Waterhouse.
So I'm very deep into profit and loss statements
and also taxes.
So I was digging really deeply
into the inflationary act when that shifted.
That was 30D.
And when the major shifts during that time
was at the last minute,
they said that the EVs have to be what?
Made domestically, right?
In order to get the $7,500 tax credit.
What a lot of people didn't recognize
is they didn't shift and look over at section 45W
which did not take the EV credit away from foreign EVs.
Actually it expanded it to them.
So what's nice about that is folks that come through
and that have a business,
they can using section 45W,
they can take advantage of the EV credits
on a business level and they can do it multiple times.
And so it just depends on exactly how that business
is in a tax position.
If they're declaring losses,
of course you can't really do much to it.
If it's a little bit lower,
they have certain tax phase out levels.
But however, most businesses can definitely
benefit from this in order to reduce their reduction,
I mean reduce their tax burden.
And then on some vehicles,
you can actually even pair it with section 179, right?
With the 6,000 pound gross weight,
you can compare the both of them two together
and get even more reduction off of your tax bill.
And that's something that's gonna keep coming up
with all of our FNI folks
is that the job has really evolved.
Like it's way past doing the menu.
Truthfully by the time the menu's presented,
the product should already be sold.
Now the FNI manager has to create deals, make deals,
but be a trusted advisor.
We're not tax professionals,
but we give people things to think about.
We actually give them what you call a portable story.
And what people don't understand is
that's what creates raving fans and customers
because they have something to share with their friends.
Good or bad, they know someone that can do that.
Then also with the big beautiful bill, section 168,
the bonus depreciation has increased.
There used to be a phase out, right?
Now it's 100%.
So these are all things that we can do
to drive more traffic into the dealership.
We can look at folks that are about to come out of lease
and let them know they can take advantage of 179
and buy the vehicle, right?
Because you can't, you have to own it.
You can buy it and then the FNI folks,
you can sell them warranties.
You can sell them all those different things
and they can take advantage of that depreciation right now.
So using those different strategies,
you can see how that can easily pick you up
an extra four or five deals
and also create some friends for life.
So before I ask you,
how does a great finance manager stay educated
on the changing dynamics that are within this industry?
So EVs and all the things.
Before we ask you that,
and we will ask you that in just a minute.
Obviously we're gonna let our audience know,
you gotta go research this, right?
We're not financial experts.
We're not like, Marion, you're an expert, right?
And you cited a bunch of stuff that could impact them.
I just wanna make sure everybody knows
they've got to under,
you have a personal responsibility as a finance manager
and I tell everybody this across our group
and across everywhere we have a voice.
A great finance manager reads their contracts
on an annual basis at least, if not more often
and is very up to date on all the current goings ons.
Cause to your point,
you have responsibility to protect the dealership,
to protect the business
and to advocate for the customer in the best way possible.
And the only way you can do that
is if you're up to date and you're well educated,
you can't be misinformed.
So Marion, what's your advice in today's world
as fast moving as things are,
whether it's EVs,
whether it's rebates,
whether it's special incentives with lenders,
what's the best way to stay current
on everything that's going on?
Besides listening to the Daily Dealer Life.
Yes, number one way to stay current,
CDG podcast, CDG on all platforms,
have it on LinkedIn,
have it on Facebook,
have it on Instagram.
I'm not just saying that
because I'm on here with you two gentlemen.
This is sincere from my heart.
The information that comes out
and here's the thing that's,
I love the conversations
because even when I disagree,
I read the comments,
I listen, it just, it gets my brain going.
The other thing that you should do
that F and I folks don't do,
that I don't think that they do enough
is they need to go into the service department
and spend time in the lanes.
Like the best F and I person I've ever met
in the United States named Jason Merchant,
he's a killer.
He is the best, hands down.
The metrics show it.
He came from service.
And when you have that service background,
that service thought process,
you're giving them real time things to think about,
real arrows, real scenarios.
You're not a harbinger of death.
You're just giving them the facts, right?
And then the facts they sell.
So those are the different ways
you can really stay on top of things
is that you have to consume the information,
but at the same time,
you have to stay at pulse
of what's actually happening in the lanes,
selling the product,
that using the product.
So I go back there.
I'm a finance manager.
I'm standing back in the lane.
What do I do?
What'd you say?
I'm standing back in the lane.
I'm a finance manager.
I go back into service.
What do I do?
What am I gonna do back there?
Listen, help, yeah, observe.
A lot of times customers will come through
that you've sold things to
and you wanna make sure that the service department
knows how to easily and quickly
get the claims taken care of
because that's what the customers remember.
They remember not having to spend anything
and they remember speed, right?
Speed sells.
Time kills deals.
Time kills deals.
So when you create that frictionless experience,
they're gonna come and buy from you every single time.
Yeah.
Okay, before we go on to video,
we've gotta do video,
but we are getting close on our time.
Is there one area in today's world,
September 2025 where you feel like
deals are leaving money on the table
as it relates to F&I?
And how do they fix that?
Man, they're leaving money on the table everywhere.
One of the situations is that
they have that old saying,
you have to sell 100% of the products,
100% of the time to 100% of the customers, right?
Yeah, yep.
That's just the tip of the iceberg, right?
Because what the problem is is that
the F&I manager really doesn't have
anything to shoot for.
It's the same thing in sales.
People know what the level is for them to get written up,
and then they're about to lose their job, right?
But what they need to really know
is they need to know what's the store record.
What's the highest PVR they've ever done, right?
What's the highest gross you've ever done, right?
And that's the bottom floor.
Then so from that point,
you wanna make sure you wanna set levels higher than that.
So when you have that process,
if you know the store record is 45,
you're not gonna present a deal that's minimal of 45.
I don't care if it's cash, I don't care if it's a 10.
You wanna sit there,
you're gonna sell 100% of the products.
So really what it is, it's all a mindset.
It's really how you train yourself every single day.
Cause if you're running off of fear,
you're gonna meet that level, right?
But if you're, it's like the four minute mile.
That person that hit the highest level,
they bled just like you.
They had the same stuff.
They had the same circumstances as you did.
Why can't you do it?
So what you do is you set up a perfect day.
You turn that perfect day into a perfect week.
And then you mimic that perfect week four times,
boom, you got the record.
And I know this is very important.
Because my crew has sat there and they break,
that's how we measure it.
We break records.
That's the one thing that cannot be taken away
that cannot be disputed is what's on the scoreboard.
Process is important.
Scoreboard is important.
Records, I love it because you've got to know
what you're chasing to chase it and to do really well.
Yup, you gotta have intentionality on it.
So it's interesting.
Let's shift to lending briefly.
And then I promise we're gonna go to video,
but we've got so much that I wanted to talk to you about.
I'm having a great time.
When you think about AI tools
and you think about technology in that lending world,
what's your advice to finance managers who say,
hey, you know what, I submitted it, it got declined,
we move on, right?
How important is it for interaction
between finance and a lender?
And what does that look like in today's world
where so much of it is automated
and computer generated calls?
Well, relationships are everything, everything.
So what happens is that you have to,
as a finance manager and as a finance director,
you have to not only focus on profit,
focus on time, churn, charge backs, all that stuff,
but you need to focus on where all the deals are going.
And you need to focus on
if they're make sure they're spread out
amongst your lenders.
And you also have to pinpoint the ones that take care of you.
And you gotta make sure you take care of them
on those 50-50 deals, right?
So take for instance, the finance manager.
So what I really train folks to do is
you have to make sure that the number one thing
is you get an approval.
So you have to sit there, talk to the customer,
dissect the credit.
That's one thing that I feel that from top to bottom,
management, staff, sales, even on a personal level,
you need to understand and be able to break down credit.
It has to be able to make sense to you.
Utilization, time, time of the trade lines.
When did they start in the bureau?
How you can fix it?
Because that's how you create a customer for life.
How much is the interest rates on their old vehicles?
How much are they paying in mortgage?
What's their revolving?
You know all those things.
You follow the credit app,
you know everything about that person, right?
So in terms of your question,
dealing with the lenders, right?
You have to understand exactly what lenders good for what.
So you know Chase, they're an income-based bank.
So if you know they're an income-based bank,
you might have somebody has the big money
but has a low score, which is a lot of our doctors,
they're good with Chase, right?
You also have to know, okay,
they just been out of the BK.
You know L, Capital One is gonna deal with them a lot better.
You might have somebody that's right there on the fringe.
They just need a car.
So what you need to do is send it to Santander
because Santander has a whole portal
that once you get an approval,
they'll show you every car on your lot
that that person can get approved for
within their parameters.
Oh, at that point, you're not only helping a customer,
you might be able to show them a car
that they didn't even know they could afford
within their level.
And that's value.
You have a real customer for life.
And that's the key thing.
Most people go into a car deal
just thinking, how can I sell this person?
I train my folks to have the mindset
that how can we make this an opportunity?
How can we make this experience so amazing
that we are certain they buy their next car from us?
Yeah.
That's because we don't sell cars.
We sell dreams, especially the subprime.
We sell dreams.
Exactly.
Okay.
So, Marion, video, walk us back to video.
You've had some advice for dealers.
Video is where it's at.
Most people don't use it enough.
How do you utilize video in FNI today
in ways that better help with adoption rate,
PVR, all the things that way?
Well, let's see, video is everything.
The reason why video is everything
is that you have to understand
that that's how things have changed in the past.
We're talking about Amazon.
We're talking about AI.
We're talking about the future.
You can even see this right now
in the way these venture capitalists
are spending their money.
They're spending the money on sports teams.
Why are they spending it on sports teams?
Billions of dollars, because that's live action.
That's live.
That can't be duplicated.
That can't be AI.
And so there's the reason why
you have to look at advertising is everything.
In the past, advertising would just be a tax on the poor.
If you go into a poor neighborhood,
you'll see billboards everywhere.
If you sit there and you have all these ads
and stuff coming through your screen,
you know it's because you didn't pay for the next level.
If you go, I just came back from Paris.
It's a green space.
You don't see ads anywhere.
You go on the golf course.
You don't see any ads.
But with video, those same people
that were only accessible during the Super Bowl
and the Academy Award,
you have access to them every single day.
And what's crazy about it is I'm going to tell you,
you can't do it from the vanity metrics
because you don't know how many times I've had people
that say, I've watched every single one of your videos
and they've never left a comment.
They've never even given a like, right?
Yeah.
So they know you create some intimacy process.
Yeah.
So if you, you have to have YouTube,
which is your longer form content.
And once people consume the YouTube longer form comment,
that's when you get people in, in, in tune.
But then you also have, you have your clips on the IG
and the smaller platforms
because that right there drives the people
to your longer form content, right?
So it has to be a lot of relationships.
So it's, it's a short, it's the short back and forth.
It's called, there's actually a scientific term for it
because someone needs to see you at least seven times.
In order for you actually to have a relationship.
Interesting.
So that's what that daily IG creates that relationship.
However-
And finance, what, what, what are finance managers
putting on IG?
Oh, I mean, easily.
To become more knowledgeable.
To bring through, like if you help a customer,
customers are super, super happy to put a good review on
especially when you help them and you open up their ad.
So when you're sitting there going through their credit
and you sit there and you show them
how you can take these next steps to get a house,
how you can set up business credit.
How-
Don't give you a video testimonial on that, right?
You post that.
In that car, I've looked in your credit
and I noticed you have a 17% interest rate
on your old car.
Let's trade that one in too.
At that point, they'll give you a video testimonial
and you post that.
Yeah.
All right, Marianne.
Some great feedback from online.
Just a couple of things I want to bring up.
Dave Rodgers said very important
to tell chat GPT not to hallucinate or use opinions.
What does that mean?
Okay, well, that's one thing Yuli had brought out too
and these are the different dangers with chat GVT.
One post you didn't know that that is subpoenaed
in a court of law.
It's just like Google, the different stuff
that you're putting in there.
This is not private.
People are using it as their therapist
and telling the deepest, darkest secrets.
You got to understand that that can be taken.
Also at the same time,
like you guys mentioned earlier,
it does not follow HIPAA and these different guidelines
and so you don't want to put anyone's personal information
inside of chat GVT.
You definitely do want to put in profit loss statements
and the things like that because those are the things
provide a, they compromise your whole company
and you don't want to do that.
But you can't get so much value in it.
Just giving, being broad because at the very least
it gives you something to shoot for.
So it gives you a target.
Yep, so be careful out there.
The other comment that came off a topic we had earlier,
just because you know if someone's personality
doesn't mean you know how to talk to them
or connect with them.
So what do you change to adapt to the customer?
How do you train the staff to do that?
And we probably only have 30 seconds for you to give that.
I know it's an unfair question.
That's a fantastic question because that's all
part of the training.
Because like I said, it's more important to ask
what shouldn't I say to this person, right?
Because if you know the person is a more energetic
person like me, you let them tell the stories.
You shut up, right?
If you know that you're trying to connect
with somebody that's more analytical,
you know that you need to give the steps.
You cannot step the step, right?
You know that if you're talking to somebody
that's more action oriented, that jock, right?
You're gonna understand they're going to be more
aggressive, but it's not, don't take it personally.
Just let them go, let them get through.
But then what you need to do is counteract it
with a story from the other side.
So you meet their emotional needs.
And at that point, you connect.
And when you connect, people can't take their eyes off you
and they'll never buy a car from anyone else.
I guarantee you.
And it's interesting because that's one area
where AI hasn't figured out,
where Amazon hasn't figured out,
where all those have not figured out how to do it.
Well, one thing I do want to say, Sam,
not to cut yourself off, like we're getting so caught up
in a lot of this AI stuff.
You need to understand too that there's just,
there's a place for everything, right?
And it's another tool,
but you don't want to have a race to the bottom
because if you have a race to the bottom,
here's the thing, you might actually win.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
So you have to, right now the real change
in dealerships is creating a luxury atmosphere
with luxury touch points
and creating a customer experience
that is superb and second to none
that they tell everyone about.
That is the future.
Luxury, luxury dealership, luxury, anything is the level.
And on that, Marion Kane, founder and CEO of ACE,
thanks for being on the show today,
sharing the perspectives.
We really appreciate everything you shared today.
Thank you.
Thanks, Marion.
It's a fun conversation about all things FNI,
so I love learning new things.
And again, you know,
we had the CEO roundtable last time,
you know, technology is something everybody's fascinated by,
trying to figure out, how do I get the edge in that world?
And I think Marion had some great tips,
great suggestions.
Lauren Klein says, exceed the expectation.
J420 AC case is very hard to teach
a new generation common sense.
So you'll have to decide if you agree with that.
Common sense, not common, right?
That's right.
Let's talk Toma before we go to our last guest today.
Let's talk Toma.
Most voice AIs frustrate customers
and waste everyone's time.
Only Toma customizes AI agents to your dealership.
So calls actually get resolved.
That's why top dealer groups trust Toma
to automate their phones.
Visit www.toma.com, forward slash CDG to learn more
and or you can scan the QR code
and get additional information.
And by the way, Julie,
I just exposed my age by saying,
www.toma.com, forward slash CDG.
Thanks for supporting the content on today's show,
including the conversation with Marion
and the one coming up with David.
We appreciate your supporting the show.
Yeah.
All right.
Next up is someone I know,
no stranger to the Ziggler Auto Group.
So Midwest Region Training Director,
Brown and Brown Dealer Services,
David Kelly, with the Ziggler Auto Group.
Welcome to Brown and Brown Dealer Services.
David Kelly.
Welcome to the show.
David.
David.
Hey, David.
Welcome. Thanks guys.
And it's going to take a sec to get him unmuted,
to get him back live with us.
David, are you there?
The trickiest part honestly of being on the show
is remembering either.
What we got.
I'll ask the first question
since I can hear you loud and clear, David.
We have our traditional question,
how is biz and while you answer that question,
gives a little background, you know,
who you are and what you're doing.
Thank you.
Business is phenomenal out here.
It's growing.
It's not ever quite what we wanted,
but we're green and growing.
People are excited.
They're really excited about the pent up demand
and how to help the customers really find the right vehicle
and have a fantastic ownership experience.
For sure.
Now, what do you do in particular
with Brown and Brown to kind of give that edge?
My position is director of training and development
for the Midwest region.
I also do a lot of stuff with John Tavor
on the corporate side.
We've developed the internal training
for all of our brown and brown reps.
So we have a class that we do with that
plus anything that a dealer needs,
whether it's F and I, sales, service, BDC.
That's kind of what I do.
A lot of consulting works if a dealership
is struggling, coming in, trying to figure out
together collectively as a team,
how to really take them to the next level.
Yeah.
Now, unfortunately, oh, Sam's back.
So maybe, no, I'm still gonna take the question from him.
Sam and I had a conversation a little earlier
and he mentioned, I thought it was fascinating.
You guys do AI, F and I training, correct?
Correct.
What's that about?
Sam, do you have a...
Yeah, you know what?
Let me set this up a little bit.
So David Kelly came to us.
David Kelly and I work,
we have an internal development group in our group
called a finance performance group.
And it's our way of training
and growing potential future F and I talent.
So we get folks from the sales ranks, from service,
from all different departments within the auto group
that are wanting to career path through F and I.
And David came to me about a year ago
and he's like, dude, AI technology's the point
where we could have an F and I AI trainer.
Wow.
And it's not, David, you said,
hey, it doesn't replace an individual in the store
because there's still very much a spot for that.
But you're going to like this.
And he showed it to me and I was super skeptical.
I said, no, we'll pilot it, we'll try it within this group.
And now we've launched it more broadly across the group.
So I guess, David, what made you think of this
as a training tool?
And then how has it gone implementing this
into dealerships over the past year?
So I'm saying.
Great lead in Sam, great question.
It's kind of my background,
20 years with a corporate global company.
And then back in 2000,
actually getting into the automotive side.
I'm not sure what you guys experienced.
You know, I retired from one job on a Friday,
interviewed Saturday, I'm selling cars on a Monday.
And I'm sure everybody on the podcast
can test the same thing as what training did you receive?
I can tell you mine was 20 minutes.
And I thought that was just the first day.
So I went to the manager said,
hey, what's day two?
And he goes, that was it.
I said, so I'm selling the second largest thing
people will buy and I got 20 minutes of training.
Wow.
So again, I watched them hire 20 people
and within two weeks, I was the only one left
on the team.
I saw them replicate that every single month.
So that was really the format of my training background
with my prior company saying,
how do I help the auto industry today?
Really onboard their people,
really get them up to a high level
where they feel comfortable.
We don't have turnover as high as today.
Yeah.
So this technology will meet a finance manager
wherever they are and engage with them.
So it's voice, maybe describe what it is and how it works.
So I'm a new finance manager or a veteran
and I'm sitting in front of a computer.
What now?
So what you're going to do,
whether you do a,
whether you've gone to an offsite workshop,
you've gone to something Marion's had,
you do some kind of an online on-demand training.
Once you've done that,
what do you traditionally do once you've done,
whatever the training is
or it's something you've had in-house?
Commonly we hope that we go, we can apply.
We know this knowledge is power.
What's more important than knowledge, application.
So this whole thing with AI that's coming out now
is an application pieces, exactly.
How do I take what I've learned,
whether whatever the platform is
and how do I truly apply it to what I just learned?
So what it does, it's a simulation.
We can actually build a persona
and that we can build many of those.
Then we build a scorecard
based on what we're trying to get the learner to actually learn.
And then they take a simulation that has it all set up.
I'll give you an example on FNI,
it could be a menu presentation.
So whatever the steps of the menu presentation are,
they take that, they actually, when they get done,
whether it's five, six, seven, eight, nine minutes,
the AI gives them immediate feedback.
They can actually see how they did.
It captures everything that was said
between the AI persona
and what you said as a FNI professional.
And then it over to the left,
depending on how we have the scorecard set up,
it gives you individual feedback
on each points of the FNI menu presentation.
So it takes into account all the AI,
it'll tell you exactly whether you had enough empathy,
not enough empathy, how would you do?
It gives you actually suggestions on how you did.
It's really more or less a coach,
24 seven coach in the box.
Wow.
And how have finance managers engaged with it?
Because one of the first challenges I had
when I heard about this idea is I'm like,
look, I know I'm not talking to a real person.
Like I'm not, like it almost seemed initially
like a worse idea than role play, right?
Like it's like, you know,
you sit in front of another finance manager
and you try to role play back and forth.
You know, sometimes you take it seriously,
sometimes you don't.
It's not real world, not real, real life.
And I thought training with an FNI and AI FNI
training tool would just feel very impersonal.
What would you say to that?
Well, my 40 years of being on the training side,
I mean, we've had role play forever, right?
Yeah.
Would you say that's real world?
No, it's not.
Probably not.
No.
And you have to find a willing participant
for the role play, right?
Well, that's the other part.
And it's a great point, Sam.
As the person playing the customer,
I've seen two sides.
Either that person completely becomes
the really hard person or a really soft person,
which we still learn from you.
But is it truly learning?
Where I think the AI piece is really,
because of AI and all the technology today,
it's really more real world.
It's going to be more like a real customer than role play.
So it is pretty cool.
You have a conversation.
You go back and forth, and then it grades you.
And I've seen in our group, people
compete to get the best grade possible.
So that ends up being like a beacon or the scorecard
or the kind of lever for success.
And they'll engage with this tool over and over and over
and over again to get the absolute best possible score.
And the competition times the engagement
just really kind of perfects your ability
to deal with objections and feel comfortable delivering.
I did like Marion's point, not a word track,
but a way of speaking with the customer, David.
Well, exactly.
So we can set the scenario.
There's three different levels on our platform.
We can do easy.
Would be maybe for a brand new person coming in.
We don't want to make somebody feel uncomfortable
or bake them out.
Then there's the moderate,
which is probably going to be the 60% of customers
we're going to see inside an F and I box
or a sales customer or somebody in service or BDC.
And then we have that top 10%
that are going to be that tougher customer.
So as you saw through what we did with your group, Sam,
we started off with easy,
with our leadership performance group.
We graduated to the medium level
and they had to get a certain score in this.
We started at 80.
And they actually had to pass the scenarios at 80%.
And once they got to 80, we went to the hard level.
So graduating from your group,
they actually had to get hard level 80% on a cash menu
and on a finance menu.
And everybody passes playing colors.
Which raised the level.
So then you go into the store.
Do you have quantifiable results for individuals,
not only in our group, but just kind of across.
Do you guys track that?
We have started to track that
and the track we've done,
we've seen a three to $400 increase immediately by using.
Wow.
So think about that.
You go from-
That's significant.
It is an onsite workshop.
You send somebody away for training
or you do something in-house.
You hope that they come back from training
that they do what?
They apply what they learned.
There's always been that training gap in between, right?
And we know that, how do we measure that?
It's either ROI and there's many levels of ROI.
Or does a customer have a better behavior?
Or does a salesperson or F and I first
have a better behavior and they stay longer?
So there's many ways to look at that.
What we loved about that is we can actually see
a leader inside that dealership,
a finance director or sales manager, GM owner
can actually get on the platform
and see how their people are applying the information.
So to Sam's point, we can gamify it
and we can set scorecards,
but we can actually say, what did you learn?
And then they want to keep using it
because it takes your skill level up.
So then David, it reasonably stands to reason
that then at some point we don't need people
either for training or for F and I.
No.
Sam, that's, you know what I've done probably
500 demos over the last year and a half
and that question comes up quite often.
And here's how I answered.
I said, this only enhances training.
This does not replace training for people.
Yeah.
And it's all tied together too.
Cause I mean, Marion had mentioned it as well,
tying it into the service department.
And I think where so many of these things fall short
is without a fully integrated understanding
of these processes amongst every department, right?
Because I'm ashamed to admit it,
but I'll admit it right now on live TV.
I have as thorough as I think of myself to be,
I have had a customer come up to me that had an issue.
And I've embarrassingly said like,
hey, you know, you had coverage for that, right?
They weren't aware and the service department wasn't aware.
And there was just a breakdown, you know?
And it's happened, you know, in my 20 years.
So that's a big problem.
Unfortunately, it does happen.
So David, you've, how many years have you been
in this career in the industry?
The F5?
I'm going on 25.
Okay.
So before I ask you kind of our closing question,
which I'd love to be,
what's the biggest change you've seen in F and I?
I just want to go back to something Marion said earlier.
So I was talking about Amazon
and how they haven't quite solved
for the product penetration yet.
You know, they don't know how to get
as high a VSC pen as a good, well-trained,
well-educated finance manager does.
What do you think the difference is
between totally online like an Amazon
and an in dealership experience
at that penetration and success rate?
My age is going to show, Sam,
I struggle with that because how do you replace people?
How does AI, to me this, like I said earlier,
this only enhances training.
This doesn't replace people.
This is to me, in my training classes,
whether it's sales, F and I or leadership,
this is a people business.
How does AI possibly, I mean, it could augment,
but how do we replace that?
So you look at companies like Zoom, right?
Carvana, I mean, Zoom's no longer with us.
But how do you really do that totally that way
without the people side of it?
And this is really, all this does
is enhancing exactly that.
The people's getting people better
at what they, what they're doing to take their skill level.
So in your career, your multi-year career,
what's the biggest change you've seen?
Technology.
Yeah, hands down.
Yeah, what do you think F and I
will look like five years down the road?
What are the biggest changes coming?
I think you're going to see exactly this.
You're going to hire somebody in F and I.
You're going to train them.
You're going to, whether they send them away into a class
or have somebody come in or some online class,
you're going to go to what we've just talked about,
some form of an online AI platform.
They're going to have to take the AI
and pass it a certain level
before they get into the dealership
before they're proficient.
We're seeing that already now.
I mean, dealer clients that we have currently
that will actually do some with this platform,
we can actually do some pre-boarding.
So you're trying to find out who's the best applicant.
We can actually send them scenarios
to find out of our final applicants
who's doing the best and make a true hiring decision.
That helps us with the onboarding piece.
So we now know what do we have to put into that
to get them up to a level.
And then we've actually had dealers say,
we can't put you in the finance office
until you've actually passed the simulations
at a certain score level.
So you know, we're following our process.
Yeah, it's cool.
It's great because it is an example
of a really important technology
that helps people deliver better.
And the people have got to understand it
that they're not competing with it,
that it's helping to enhance them and, you know,
props to you guys because I fought it for a year.
And I said, there's no way it could work.
The latency, it's not going to get it right.
And again, I'm fascinated by how well it ended up,
not only working, but at the end of the day,
it's the ROI on the tool.
I'm impressed by the net PVR lift
as a result of that training in the stores.
They've taken it seriously.
So David Kelly, training director Midwest Region.
Brown and Brown dealer services.
Thanks for being on the show, sharing your perspectives today.
Thank you for having us, David.
Thanks, guys.
It is interesting to me.
You think about the CEO panel we did on Friday of last week.
You think about what we've heard here today.
It's interesting to me how quickly FNI,
or how quickly automotive changes, pivots and adapts,
technology, all the other things.
And yet, how much of what we do
is still similar in the same as it was years ago, right?
So much has changed and so much has not changed, fair?
Well, that last kind of pivot is that personal touch.
I mean, you need that salesperson.
You need that finance manager.
You need that connection that we're talking about,
which I'm not saying there's not a solution for in the future,
but no one has figured it out yet.
So we're still very, very important.
Great comments online, Lauren Klein.
The technology changes in just the last few years
are insane.
And she's absolutely right.
It has rapidly evolved.
Dan, he says thanks again for another solid show.
Lauren Klein exceed the expectation.
And then we also have another commenter.
What does ACE do?
It's a training consulting company
who appreciate Marion for being on and being here with us today.
Well, it's a wrap, but what a great show on this Monday.
We'll be back here Wednesday.
And to our daily dealer live listening audience,
thanks for watching this daily dealer live,
where we break down the biggest moves in the car business
as they happen, including all things tech, AI, and F&I,
as we saw today.
Don't forget we're here live every Monday, Wednesday,
and Friday.
So if this is your world, hit like, hit subscribe,
turn on those notifications so you never ever miss a beat.
And we'll see you next episode.
Thanks, everybody.
Thanks, guys.
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