Can you Avoid Depreciation? Our Picks From 2015-2025! | Ep 71 | Drive Torque Podcast

He's an owl.

Oh, I'm late. How are you?

Yeah, not too bad. Thanks, buddy. Not too bad.

Have we given up on Patrick with this podcast?

Yeah, he's not on this one because the last one,

if those of you tuned in, he was doing really, really well

and then going to froze with this gormless mouth open expression

that we had to then look at for about half an hour.

So we decided just not to invite him in on this one.

Internet's just so unreliable.

I mean, I know it was me, what, six months ago, a year ago.

Then it was you a little bit.

And now it's Pat. And Pat lives in London.

So it's just crazy.

But anyway, good to see you, mate.

Yeah, about everyone.

Everyone, welcome back to the Drive Talk podcast,

powered by Michelin.

We're virtual again this week.

We are desperate to get a face-to-face.

I know we were together at Boxing Gas just a couple of weeks ago,

but our diaries at the moment are really silly.

And mine's silly, actually, because I've got a combination

of doing lots of work things,

but also just trying to have a few days off

with our other halves.

And I know that you're technically meant to be having

some time at home with Lou today.

So I won't keep you very long.

I mean, I have to look after my marriage because I'm married.

You're not quite married yet, but you will be soon.

And so you need to kind of do your forward planning.

Exactly. Yeah, that's it.

Well, then the thing that really upset me,

I'm starting to get these little triggers every now and again

that make me realise I'm getting old.

And one of them the other week was we were chatting with some friends

and they went, oh, it's your silver wedding this year, isn't it?

And I'm like, well, yeah, it's my 25th wedding anniversary,

but silver wedding just makes it sound really old.

Your parents have silver weddings.

I don't even know what that means, but yeah.

Is that 25 years?

25 years. Silver weddings 25 years.

I think golden weddings 50 years.

Then it goes platinum is 70.

I think I don't know.

The first year is like paper or something.

And then it kind of steps up through things that are worth a bit more.

But yeah, silver wedding for me this year, 25 years.

So that's, that's like super scary.

Yeah, yeah. Wow.

So, but anyway, anyway.

So this one, I hopefully all tuned in last episode

and we gave you some great examples of PCP deals

where we looked at budgets of 250, 500 and 750 pounds a month.

And we found, I think we found some absolute bangers,

some really good cars.

And I think, you know, hopefully you've recovered now

because you actually chose an electric car or two,

which was impressive.

One. You know, I, well, yeah.

Okay, one, but you agreed with my second one

and that was an electric car.

So this episode, we're going to,

now you've got to tell us what Lou said

when you were talking to her about the title of this podcast,

because we've done quite a few podcasts over the last year or so

about, or mentioning in them about horribly depreciating cars.

In fact, we did one just a couple of episodes ago

because they are eye watering, quite funny

unless you're the person who's bought that car.

And also at the moment, there's plenty of ammunition to go after, right?

There's lots of cars that hemorrhage money.

Yeah.

And people love, I think people, I think the problem is as well

and I think I'm not pointing the finger at anyone

because I'm just as guilty as anyone else.

But we do all love misery, don't we?

And I'm a bit of a cynical old man these days,

but anything that's a bit miserable,

whether it's depreciating cars or what,

it's always like, oh, how much have they lost

or how much has that car lost?

So anyway, so this time, sorry, Ben.

Yeah, no, no.

But it is, though, especially, I mean,

you've got to say the auto trader price tracker plug-in

that you can put on your Google Chrome browser

is just the best thing ever

because you can just see literally how,

because it is normally, for the vast majority of cars,

let's face it, all cars,

the second you roll them off the forecourt

are going to lose some money.

So it's a case of how much money they lose.

But in this episode, we thought we'd try and find

or talk about cars that depreciated the least.

Yep.

Over.

I mean, I know we're given 10 years,

but none of mine are exactly 10 years.

They're around.

I've flown a bit fast and loose with the brief,

if I'm honest.

That's unlike you, Ben.

I found this one quite hard, actually.

But yeah, so that's the subject for today.

But we do want to have a chat about a couple of things

before we get to that point, don't we?

Yes, we do.

Yeah, 100%.

Maybe let's talk about, as we're sponsored by Michelin,

should we talk about tyres?

And maybe the fact that you managed to get a lot of punches,

and I don't want to tempt fate here,

but you've had a lot of punches over the last couple of years,

but there's a good reason for that.

Well, yeah.

I mean, I had that back when I worked with Hendy.

I had that Astra electric.

I had three punches in two weeks.

Yeah.

So two things, and this is me racing driver excuses.

We obviously built the garage that I'm sat in now

about a year ago,

and whenever you've got a building works or trades around,

no matter how careful the builders are,

you will find that nails and screws and stuff get dropped

and we've got shingly gravel outside.

So the nails and screws kind of instantly disappear

into the gravel.

And then Tracy has been working on a project of Goodwood

for the last year,

which has basically been a building site.

And then also actually,

when she's working around revival

or around festival of speed or members meetings,

she's often on site and they're building sites

and there's nails and stuff.

So we do get a disproportionate amount of punctures.

But yes, I have had a puncture on the little mini

very annoyingly.

I've had it for about five weeks maybe,

a real slow one.

So I've been having to kind of top up the pressure

every two or three days

because I just haven't been asked

or haven't had the time to go and get it sorted.

But I eventually did go and get it sorted.

But it kind of made us think,

why don't we have a chat about punctures and puncture repair?

Because I don't know about you,

but I'll on forums and Facebook groups

and sometimes I'll get DM questions about punctures.

And the most the normal one is someone will bitch and moan

because they saw a picture of a photograph of a tire

and they'll be like a screw or a nail.

And it'll be in like the sidewall

and they'll moan that they had to buy a new tire.

And so we thought we'd chat about tires

and the repair of those tires

from a kind of Michelin standpoint really

because I think a lot of people

will probably find it quite surprising.

Definitely.

Yeah, I know I was when I first heard the official line

from James about the fact that

essentially they encourage us,

not just us, you and I,

they encourage their customers to repair punctures,

repair the tire as opposed to going out and buying a new tire.

There's lots of do's and don'ts around that,

but the bottom line is they're encouraging that.

And I love that sort of black and white brands,

the world, we all love this sustainability label

and everyone pretends to be saving the planet in most cases,

but there's nothing more real

than something like preserving a tire

that is still good and has lots of life in it

and fixing it and using it

rather than just replacing the entire thing.

Exactly.

I think I came across it last year

because I had a puncture in the Boxster

and it was only about two weeks

before I was due to go on a drive tour to Spain

and the car had gone into Porsche, Portsmouth,

for its MOT and I just wanted them to give the car a check over

and they rang me and said,

do you've got a puncture in your rear tire?

We're going to have to replace the tire.

And I said, well, where's the puncture?

And they said, did you, right in the middle of the tire?

I said, well, repair it.

No, no, no, you can't.

It's a performance car.

You've got to replace the tire

and they failed the MOT.

It was an advisory on the MOT

and they said, you need to replace the tire

and I rang up James and I kind of said,

look, can I get a new tire?

Or actually it was going to get two tires

because you generally should,

unless it's quite a new tire,

you want to replace them in pairs.

And this is like halfway through its life,

probably five mil worth of tread,

maybe a bit less.

And James said, well, repair the tire.

And I said, well, okay,

but it's a performance car

and also on the drive tour I'm going to be going on,

we've got a track day.

A half a day on track,

but surely I should get a new tire for that.

And again, the reply was,

as long as it's a professionally done repair

to the right standards,

repair is as good as a new tire.

And I took the tire,

I got Porsche to leave it.

It was a nail in the tread pattern

and they hadn't removed it.

And I took it to my local tire center

and actually in that case,

when they took the nail out,

it was a screw head.

When they took the screw head out,

it wasn't actually deep enough

to go through the tread block into the tire.

So it wasn't causing the tire to deflate.

It was just the head of a screw in the tread box

who didn't actually need fixing anyway.

But I just found it really interesting

that you would assume

and a lot of people out there probably do assume

that if you get a puncture,

maybe in the more high performance car market

that you have to replace the tire

and that isn't the case.

Unless the puncture site

is within a certain distance

of the edge of the tire.

So it's generally, if it's in the middle,

I can't remember I should have done some research

how far away from the edge of the tire it has to be.

But if it's too close to the sidewall

or if it's damaging the sidewall,

that is not repairable

and you will need to have a new tire.

And also if you've driven on the tire

with it completely flat,

oh yes, you destroy the carcass

and all that stuff.

Yeah, because when you take it out,

I remember being at Michelle Diva

where I used to take my tires

and I'd had a puncture

and it was Tracy who had had the puncture

and she'd driven a little bit

and then when we took the tire off

it was just full of black dust,

little balls,

and that was the sidewall of the tire

that it just basically,

on the inside it was like,

oh no, that's a shock.

So I had that on the Mini last week

and it was just a screw,

right in the middle of the tire,

right in the middle of a tread block as well.

And it was a fix on our way

and that was all good.

It's a bit like the minimum tread depth thing as well.

Again, the line from Michelin on minimum tread depth.

And this is way back

my first ever press event.

It was like eight, nine years ago.

I went and did a thing at the big Michelin,

to do the big test facility that Michelin have in France.

And that was all about running tires

down to the legal tread depth limit of 1.6 mil.

When lots of tire resellers

and manufacturers will say

that you have to change the tires at 3 mil,

and Michelin's argument is for a premium tire,

for their tires they are designed

to operate within spec down to 1.6 mil

in both dry and wet weather conditions.

And just that extra 1.4 mil

is a good, I don't know,

a couple of thousand miles worth of driving probably.

Yeah.

As long as you've got your tires,

all your wheels properly aligned

and all of that kind of stuff.

Yeah.

Yeah, and again, that's another real case scenario

back on white of being more sustainable

using that tire for longer.

But like you said, putting it into practice

it's like when I went out to Sweden

a couple of years ago with Michelin

and they were talking about, you know,

the fact that they're really focusing on that.

They continue to focus on that.

Talking to our good friend, Jonathan Benson,

that does loads of tire testing

and he, you know, he's always banged on at me

about how much Michelin test their worn tires.

Like they test, you know, worn tires all the time

just alongside the new version of the tire

because they want to make sure that

especially something like that,

like a cross climate tire or winter tire,

you know, once they wear down in your head

you're like, well, they're going to become useless.

But even with that sort of tire,

they make sure that when they're down towards their 1.6 mil,

they're still performing at like 80, 90%.

But then, yeah, I guess that the problem is

and that we all face is you take it into a main dealer

or even a tire dealer,

they make money from selling tires, don't they?

So then you've got that conflict of interest

where they want to sell your tires.

Of course they do.

And the line's always been, oh, well,

it's under three and a half mil or four mil,

you should consider changing your tires.

So it's always, but I think making people aware

that actually your Michelin tires are good

until, you know, until two mil.

I don't suggest going down to 1.6,

because at 1.6 you then go down to 1.5

and suddenly your tires are in the law,

they're illegal.

So there's, you know, but it's interesting.

But when you see, I mean, that trip I went on,

we did wet weather and dry weather tests

with a worn premium tire, a Michelin,

and a brand new budget tire,

and the worn premium tire outperformed

a brand new budget tire in wet and dry weather braking.

And I remember the most scary one,

we did wet weather brake test with a worn budget tire

so there was like the car came up,

it was only doing like 30, 40 miles an hour,

came up to a line to start braking

and the braking zone was wet

and this car just went off the end.

It didn't stop at all.

It was super scary.

You think, wow.

Because I'll see on forums from, you know,

when I had the puncture done,

there was a car in there

and it was a nice Audi A5,

looked like a nice spec one.

It was a few years old.

It was maybe four or five year old car

but it was a two liter diesel A5 rather

and it had, I can't even remember the name of the tires

like Ying Yang Wing Wongs or something.

They were just,

looked like they've bought them out of a cracker.

They were just awful.

And it just like,

what in the world possesses someone,

you're only connected to the road

by four bits of rubber

and that contact patch is probably the size of a credit card

and that's it.

So, you know, a tall guy,

but it's only the wife driving that car.

It doesn't matter.

She's not driving hard.

She's probably got kids in the back

taking them to school.

By decent size people.

Anyway, all the big mentality with that is

a lot of the time it's a Range Rover

or something like a used X5,

a really used X5,

but maybe that Audi A5 was Quattro.

So in their head they're like,

well, I've got Quattro all wheel drive

so I don't need good tyres.

It's like giving a really good football player

and a muddy pitch set of ballerina shoes.

Like that really good football player

can't play football in the mud with ballerina shoes on.

Even though they're very talented.

Do you know what I mean?

It's just mad.

I mean, I sent you the photograph.

I was at a car meet last week

and someone turned up in a Corvette.

On Slicks.

Cup two's all round

and you could not see the tread pattern on them.

Yeah.

And you just look at them and you go,

what are you thinking?

For a start it's three points per tyre

if you get stopped and they're illegal.

Three points.

So that's instantly he's lost his licence

if you got stopped on the way home.

If there's a, I don't know,

a little bit of rain on the way home

or hits a bit of low traction surface

you're absolutely stuck.

I don't understand the mentality of some people.

No.

Anyway, enough preaching,

but my puncture's fixed

so I don't have to keep topping me air up

every couple of days.

Great.

Because Trace is using the Mini a lot of the moment.

So in the morning I'm like,

I'll need to go and put some more air in the tyre.

I'll get it fixed this week,

I promise, but it's sorted.

Okay.

If only you could over the air update

the tyre pressure on your car.

Here we go.

You're Segway Man.

Oh my God.

Hashtag Segway Club.

What is it?

Crayon Crew.

No, Crayon Crew.

Segway Crew.

Yeah, yeah.

Woo.

So the reason for that Segway

is a thing we've spotted in the press.

I don't know, where did we see it?

I don't know where it was.

I didn't.

Did you find it?

No, I didn't.

So apparently,

and I just, I mean, I know BMW had a bit in the press.

Was it 12 months, 18 months ago,

where they were starting to,

it was a heated seats or something out of paper.

Yeah, four or five years ago.

Yeah, yeah.

So VW,

with their new ID3 Pro,

which is kind of like their hot hatch

electric little Mini thing,

are unlocking

an extra 27 BHP

in performance on the car

through a paywall.

Yeah.

So if you want another 27 horsepower

on your car,

you've got to pay £16.50 a month,

and they will unlock that through a paywall.

Wow.

And I wondered what your thoughts were on that one.

I mean, I guess that's,

it just shows, doesn't it,

these electric cars.

Well, we already know,

like you said, BMW have done it.

A lot of modern cars,

electric or combustion engine or hybrids or whatever,

as we know, they're stuff full of electronics.

Yeah.

And to cut costs,

a lot of these manufacturers these days

with like, let's use heated seats,

because you said that earlier on.

A lot of these cars have already got the elements

and everything,

all the infrastructure for those heated seats in the car,

but all they're missing is like the button

or not even a button because it's touchscreen,

all they're missing is the software

to allow you to turn the seats on.

So then, of course, with electric cars,

well, you're then just extending that technology

or that know-how into,

oh, what if the motor's able to give you some more power,

which in a lot of cases they are, right?

Because there will be a motor that's shared

across the Volkswagen platform

and in the bigger ID7,

it might be producing $500 per hour, $300.

So it doesn't surprise me.

I think it's very cheeky,

but I don't know.

On one hand, if it means that the entry-level car

is cheaper for the average punter

that just wants to buy it and use it as a daily

and it makes that car a bit cheaper, then great.

And then if it's a youngster that's coming in,

but if you or I were born today

and we could only buy an electric car today,

we were 17, 18-year-old today

and we were about to go out and buy an ID3

and there was only electric cars available,

so even I had to go and buy an electric car.

The thought of all having an extra new 30 horsepower

for a bit, that would have excited me

because it would be the same as you and I

in our time, like, you know, doing a little tune

or putting an exhaust in your car or something.

So it doesn't surprise me.

Do we know prices or what they wanted to charge that?

It was $16.50 a month.

$16.50? Yeah.

I mean, it's not that different.

Tesla have been doing this for years, right?

So Teslas, they're all built

with all the functionality, autopilot

and all those cool things in there

and then you can just have them activated over the air

so you can pay Tesla and they'll activate

that feature over the air.

And in a way, you touch on a point

and it goes back to, I mean, I did, by degree,

a very, very long time ago, back in the days,

you know, before the internet and student loans,

but when I did a degree in manufacturing

and we actually did a case study on Ford at the time

and it was when the Ford range, this is going to date it,

when they were like L, GL, GLS, gear, right?

They were different, you remember those?

Yeah, yeah.

And we worked out that if Ford made every,

it was an escort, I think we did it on,

made every Ford escort at gear trim,

so the highest spec trim,

but every single car was the same

because the manufacturing process would be standardised

because it's the customisation of every different car

that costs the money,

that they would make the cars a cheaper per unit rate

and they would be able to sell them cheaper than the L trim.

Wow.

Because the cost of manufacturing would go down.

So I kind of get it, I would assume,

and let's say the thing about the motor,

if you just use one motor,

you only have to strike a deal with one motor,

one motor for the supply chain, it goes in every car,

and then you just activate its power capabilities in software

and software, once it's written, is free.

So I kind of get it completely.

The bigger question though is,

if that's a trend that we start to see,

what does that mean for tuning?

And I know this is an electric car thing,

and I know some people aren't interested in modifying

and tuning at all, but we are,

and we've done lots of stuff over the past

with various cars where you have a Stage 1

or a Stage 2 tune,

or you go to someone like a Motec

or a Mulgaari Mini, or whoever that might be,

and you get them to, or Litchfield,

there's loads of companies that do it,

and they increase the performance of the car.

The challenge with EVs,

I can see everything's just going to be locked down

behind a software firewall

that you can't change because it's proprietary software

and it will be encrypted,

and the only way you're going to get performance updates

is by things like this.

And I can almost see spring forward

10, 15 years, 20 years

when the kids of today are buying their first car

that they won't be able to do the things we've done

because the only way you'll be able to do it

is go to a brand and pay money for it.

Yeah, and another...

It is depressing, although I really hope

and believe that in 10 or 15 years,

we will be back building combustion engine cars.

That's what I hope for the next generation,

but that's just my own thoughts.

But the other question is

if you're upgrading your car

and extra 30 horsepower,

then surely your insurance needs to know that.

Like what happens there?

Do you bring up the insurance?

Next month I'm adding 27 horsepower to my car.

Can you imagine?

But then not the month after that?

Yeah, September 27,

then through the winter months

I don't need that extra 27 horsepower,

so I'm not going to subscribe.

Can I have a quote on that?

I mean, it's just mad.

That's going to cause a lot of...

It is, but you're right.

If you change the car

and my advice to people

working with an insurance company as I do,

it's super simple advice.

You do anything to your car,

anything, tell your insurance company.

The least they can do is go,

we didn't need to know that,

but you're not telling them

and then you're having an incident

and then going, hold on a minute,

lots of just have just looked at your car

and you've just upgraded

to the extra 27 horsepower

on VW, your car's not insurance.

Yeah.

Let us know in the comments below

what you think of that

because I know the subscription service

in general is a hated thing,

but there are two sides to it.

Like I said, if it means that the base car

is the majority of people,

then that's kind of a positive thing

and it's a...

It's a weird thing.

It's no different to buying some more cloud storage

for your iPhone, is it really?

No, no. Exactly.

Maybe that's stretching the analogy a little bit,

but you know what I'm going to do.

About the same price these days.

Yeah, exactly.

But if your car hasn't lost money

then you're not so worried about

spending that money.

So it's by a car

that's going to depreciate the least.

I need a big sign.

Segway, man.

Segway.

I'm basically what it is

I'm trying to get a sponsorship by Segway.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Channel partner.

Yeah, exactly.

So we thought we'd chat about

least depreciating cars.

I don't know where to start with this.

Well-known examples of

low-run cars.

Normally at the high end

of...

Examples for me would be from Porsche.

Something like a 911 ST.

We all know

if you're lucky enough to get a build slot for one of them

they're going to go up in value

by a truckload. You'll sell them for above list

for, I don't know, 12 months or so.

Yeah.

So we kind of know about those or heard about them.

But

don't you predict when they're going to happen

or are there examples of more normal cars

where they just hold their money well

and I'd love to know why it is

that they do that.

Yeah. And on average

according to AI

a four...

Oh, you've not asked chat GPT this, have you?

Well, I just put it in Google.

You know when you search and then it just comes up with an AI answer

but a four-year-old car in the UK

on average loses between

40 and 60% of its value.

A three-year-old car

is just under 50.

So let's just say in three years

a typical car

in the UK

would lose about 50% of its value.

Yeah.

Unless it's...

Yeah, there are obviously there's some...

The examples that we're going to look at today

which hopefully don't lose that much

and then there's examples

like the majority of electric cars out there

that do lose more money

but what...

Yeah, who's going to start with this one then, Ped?

Well, I'm going to share

this report

with you.

And then we can kind of chat about it

and I've looked at... So one of the things I found with this

is

when you're looking at

trying to find a used car

let's say two, three, four, five years old

is understanding what that car was

new in terms of price.

It's quite tricky because you kind of

can go and have a look but if you go on a

configurator then the price you're going to get

is today's price, not the price it was three years ago

so it is a bit tricky.

You can Google it. Again, if you Google it

it will give you... That's what I've done with all mine.

You can just Google how much was this car

in whatever and then it'll say in this...

Yeah.

Have you put something in? Oh, here we go.

No, I've just put it in that. So this is a report

from a finance company

about the 10...

Oh wait, but this gives away all the answers.

No, but we don't have to...

I know, we're not going to say

that's just there for your reference.

We don't have to share it with our listeners

just yet.

So

based on that, I'm going to go first

I am going to go

with

a car

that I have driven.

I went out to the launch

in Morocco for it

last year.

It's a brilliant car.

And that is the new

Toyota Land Cruiser.

Oh.

Okay.

And

let me just put these two in here.

Now, there's a couple of reasons

why I think this car

depreciates the least.

And I know we said three, four or five years

and they've only seen out in a year.

No, we didn't. We said ten years.

It's a ten years.

All mine are basically ten years old.

That's fine.

We're flying fast and loose with the brief here.

That's what I do all the time, right?

All right.

I found this one really hard.

Only because

when we were discussing this, I said

let's work with some newer cars

and then the general conversation was

no, let's go ten year old.

Let's use this

as an example

of one of the

factors that leads the cars holding their money.

Yep.

Right?

So I put two links in

that we can kind of share as we chat in a way.

One is Auto Trader, looking at

cars for sale,

new ones that are

relatively new.

And the other one is the Toyota Configurator.

Okay.

Because if you want to build a Land Cruiser

I...

So I put one together

and I'll reset

the

Configurator and the link I've sent you.

No, I've got it to like about

$78,000.

For

what was the spec in...

It was the...

There's not a great deal to...

You can choose the engine obviously

but the wheels and colour

and stuff.

But if you look on Auto Trader

then

it's kind of like 90 grand,

85 to 90 grand.

A lot of them...

If you know on the price tracker

there's quite a few of them have gone up in price.

Yep.

And the reason for that,

one they're a really good car

but two they

were only bought to the UK

in really small numbers.

I think it was something ridiculous like

a Toyota dealer only got

two allocated to it.

They're rare and that means

the initial depreciation.

So we can cover this off

in terms of it's the same I guess

for something like a Porsche product

or one of the Ferraris or something

where you have to buy a number of cars

to get a build slot.

And the GR Yaris to some extent is the same

because the supply is so minimal

the prices hold.

The new Range Rover was the same.

I know we joked about Tom Howard having a Range Rover

but when he got that

10s of thousands of pounds more

just to sell it on.

Because that initial first 12 months

when

cars are scarce to get hold of

there are people out there with money

who just want the latest shiny thing.

So the least

so this is me justifying

my choice by the way

in that first year to two years

if you've got a car that has

really good reviews like the New Land Cruiser

because it's a brilliant bit of kit

isn't available in big numbers

and everybody wants one

supply and demand will mean

that basically they hold their money

or they go up in value

and that's where you start to get this

and I've still never got my head around someone

who would pay over list for a car

but people do.

Yeah I mean

that's an interesting car

something I don't even really think about

because you just don't see them out and about

because they're so like you said low numbers

and they obviously

like you said clearly hold their value

have gone up in value but I think

advising someone

I mean this particular example is good

but I think

if you're working off

that as a new model

it does like look at M3 Touring

the first few months that was out

people were asking massive overs

and then the market was flooded

and they all just disappeared

and looking on here

that links nicely into what you said

so you could if you were in that kind of

space and you did pay overs and then

the market crashed because they suddenly bought loads in

you're in a big world of hurts right?

Yeah and I think even looking at some of these examples

on here like there's a 25 plate one

that's been up and it's already dropped

11% since

the Midlands

April so they originally advertised it

and that to me looks like and it's only done 800 miles

so it looks to me like someone's bought that

speculated though I'm going to flip it

for a little bit of extra money

and they're still stuck with it

so I think it's

it's always a risk but either way

I think any of these would sell

you know you could sell them at least

every day of the week if you're saying

they're nicely built ones 80 grand or something

yeah

now it's an interesting car and it's one that

like I said I know nothing about

but you've driven and

I do appreciate and respect

Landcruise it's always been such a legendary

battle

bus

it is but it's funny it's not

it is outside of the

so if you go to well obviously

you're part of half Australia you go to Australia

they're like the mythical status over there

and the same if you go to the Middle East

it's the same over there but it's just

a car that's never really

it's not that we don't get them over here

they just not got the same

the same kudos over here I don't think

Yes, yeah

or in Dubai or something like that

in the Middle East

nice

so you read the

brief properly then

yeah

well I looked

at it as 10 years

what cars

and I guess this is what

we've done it with a few

of our challenges we both read the brief

slightly in different ways and there's nothing wrong

with that because people watching might read it

in a completely different way again

but so I've picked out examples

of cars that

that clearly

haven't appreciated

massively or in some cases have

appreciated a bit

in a 10 or so years

ignoring like you have

the obvious ones like we all know

if you buy like a Porsche GT3 or an

SC or not a GT4 RS

then

then you're going to be fairly safe

but the first one

is actually a car

I'm going to give you a clue

it's a reasonably priced car

it was when it was new and it's actually a car

that I think Tim, Shmi still owns

reasonably priced car

and I mean focus

heritage focus

yeah

so when they were new

the heritage focus was 39,500

pounds basically

it came as it was there was no options

they were all orange

I can't remember how many they made

but

and of course everything Ped and I are

showing today are like speculating prices

they're not, these cars aren't sold

that's what they're advertised for

but I mean this one is an extremely low mileage one

77 grand

and it's 7 years old

yeah and there's a high mileage one

on there for about 68 grand

so they're all trading between

65 and 80 grand

I remember Tim saying that people are selling

them for 65 grand

you know

no worries so if you look at that

I mean that's

what's that 30, 40, 50, 60, 7

so that's 40

that's gained

if it's sold for that

nearly 40,000 pounds

and it's a Ford Focus

so talk about a safe place to put your money

and even if you

used your Ford Focus heritage

RS heritage edition

you would still be

20 grand, 25 grand

in the plus if you used it as a daily

wow

with like 30,000 miles on it so

I mean that's an interesting car because

number one it's a Ford Focus

and no offense to anyone that's called Ford Focus

brilliant cars but it's not like

you don't think all Ford Focus

that's going to hold value

but an RS heritage

edition or any of the RS

is like the Mark II is holding value

what made those particularly special

were they just do they have like a plaque on them

somewhere in a number or were they different

like suspension

or I can't remember

I think the wheels are

special like they're lightweight

and I think there's some tweaks with the suspension

and probably a plaque but

off memory it wasn't like

they weren't like touring cars

that were registered for the road

it was very very similar to a regular

RS which was still a great car

but it wasn't

and I remember

at the time because I think the base

the normal RS was 30 grand

and these were for 39 and a half

and everyone was like what like 40 grand

for an RS

but yeah seven years on

and they were almost doubled in

value so

that's my interpretation

and first example of

a car that's held value well

well okay

well okay my next

one

I'll come back from my

poor position because I just

thought on the fly

and this is a car

that I actually drove

just last week

ah

I can't keep up with what you drive okay

do I know?

you'll love it I promise you

okay let me just put it in the message

so I'm going to the same recipe

a normal car

that holds its money in fact these have gone

up in money in a big way

in the link

oh yes

yes

right?

so

mark 7

Golf GTI Club Sport X

look at that

yes I was very jealous

that tempts me

2,000 miles on the clock

yeah 50,000 pounds

and I've just had a quick look

they were 35 grand new

they're 2016 this car I think

and I remember at the time

people were like what 35 grand

for a Golf are you mad

35 grand now look

and my mate's one was in was red

it's only got 9,000 miles on the clock

and it was magnificent

yeah I bet

oh that is

I mean they are

but they're 310 horsepower

yeah

rear seat delete they only weigh

1250 kilos

just a wonderful thing

but they've gone up like

that's held its money

but they were

there was only ever 400 of them

okay

yeah

but what I didn't realise until someone

the wonders of YouTube so that held

the Nordschleife lap record

for a front wheel drive production car

until it was

that title was taken away

from it by a Civic Type R

but it was our mate

Benny Lightning

that drove it to set that record

oh brilliant okay

that makes sense

that is a timeless

beautiful because I think

that's obviously Mark's

Mark 7.1

Mark 7 right

not the 7.5

it's a beautiful car

it's prettier than the 8 and the 8.5

yeah I mean the

the infotainment system is shocking

I mean it's even worse than the

it's all monochromatic and rubbish

and it's on

well they came with cut 2's

they did yeah

I think it's this ones are 4S's

yeah, lovely

that's lovely

so that's appreciated

15 so you could

so I'm guessing a leggy one

well your mate's one's still low-mild

but I'm guessing one with 30-40,000 miles

it's probably worth about book value

today

sorry worth what it was

and the other thing

is they only

ever bought 150 to the UK

right hand drive

so their

their money's only going to go one way

yep

but actually

when you think about it that it's very similar

recipe to that heritage

focus you just pulled out

yeah no very similar

yeah there's oh I'll say I've just found

another one oh my god you got me looking

this could be really dangerous

same spec as the one you've just shown us

but it's got 30,000 miles

and it's 35 grand so there you go

that's exactly what I just

so that's lost no money

lost no money and it's done

you know reasonable

miles each year

5000 miles a year or something

oh jeez that's nice

oh my goodness

what a special car

yeah

wow

okay

yeah it is

yeah well that's

that's lovely that is really nice

very nice

okay so where do I go from there

let me just bring

I've got so many windows and screens open

it's unbelievable

so my next one

is

well unfortunately

I've had to go up

I struggled to find many more

in the lower price point so

my next one

was actually on that list that you

showed us earlier on

but obviously no one else has seen that

we'll talk through what

the cars are on it in a minute

yeah so my next one

is a car that I really don't like

and I think

99% of its owners

are absolute bell ends

I'm going to guess

is it a Lamborghini

Eurythra

yep it's a Lamborghini Anus

but I know these things

hold their money like you wouldn't believe

this is the cheapest one

on AutoTrader

it's hundreds of them

70,000 miles

so that gives you an idea

of the sort of person that owned it

it waxes himself off a lot by the looks of it

it's just

it's quite a nice colour

I don't know what it is in Lamborghini turns

but it's like a tanzanite blue

it's probably got

and I don't know how many owners

but it's probably got 50,000 owners

and it's the cheapest one

£135,000

and

Fedd guess what they were

when they were brand new

in 2018

when that was a brand new car

probably less than that

it was £135,000

£135,000

no way

so it's

seven and a half years old

it's on 70,000 miles

probably ragged to an inch of its life

and it's lost no money

oh it's got red interior

oh my goodness

oh my

oh my god it's got red steering wheel

oh my

oh my god

that is hideous

I'm going to send that to worst spec or whatever it is on Instagram

that's the worst thing

what's that thing hanging from the rear view mirror look

is it like a sword or something

I don't know

wow

that sums up a euros owner

that is

after they spec that

oh nailed

it's got TV in the back

that is just

dreadful

and that

how is that

£135,000

you'd be out of your mind if you bought that

I mean

I'd rather burn

I'd rather go outside and make a bonfire of £50 notes

than buy that thing

that's just horrible

one day

one day I want to see you turn up to call me

in a Lamborghini

look at that steering wheel

actually makes me

feel sick

that is just

that is horrible

but I had heard

from a few people that uruses are just

they just hold their money like nothing else

yeah

so

instead of buying that for £135,000

if you really want something like

go and buy an RSQ8

because one of that age

would be like probably

a third that money

or spend £135,000

and get a brand new RSQ8 performance

I'm sure you would almost get one

for that

you would be mad

I mean

oh so yeah

well I know this is all about

this is annoyingly about

telling people about cars that haven't

and this one or uruses

clearly haven't because the whole market

this is the bottom of the market

this horrible

shows how many people don't have any taste

whatsoever

oh wow

that is horrible

that's the worst way

ladies and gentlemen

that is the worst way to spend £135,000

wow

okay I hadn't seen the interior until

it was just then that's just horrible

moving on

right

so my one, my last one

I'm going to get a similar reaction to you

I'm sure

so

this car is actually

on that list I shared with you as well

okay now

it's a car that

has

in the very twilight of

its years

suddenly gained like a

cult status

and what that means is

even plain ones that haven't

been tampered with

are still worth good money

but those that have had some work done on them

can be worth ridiculous money

ladies and gentlemen

let me share with you

a Land Rover Defender 90

oh my goodness

for £200,000

what

Defender works

oh my god

it's gone up

they put it up for £20,000

they went ah no it's not selling at

£180,000

it's gone up

now it's by the Chelsea Truck Company

and so and there are loads

and loads if you go onto AutoTrader

there are loads

and just look at like Defender 90s

and I'm talking about

not the new Porterloo shape

the previous one

you know if I just

if I click on this and just share

this is the

I just did a search on AutoTrader

for Defenders

and did high to low

if you have a look at that

I still can't get over

I love a Defender

there's a really cool

there's like an overfinch

one which is the pick up version

a little 90 wheel base

short wheel base pick up

£125,000

and even ones that

if you go down there's a lot of

new, there's a lovely heritage one

here at £90,000

even those

they're still pulling

£80,000,000

there's a twisted one here and I know all of these ones are from

companies that have tweaked them

they're really nicely done inside

that's £90,000

this is a Defender

that was probably 30 or 40 grand

when it was new and nobody liked them

because they drive like shit

they're so

so compromised as a road car

and they put

bucket seats in it

I mean it's just

I mean it's from the Chelsea

bloody what's it called

company

I mean look at it

I can't stop looking at that one

but then there's also the

have you seen the urban one as well

the second

the second most expensive

there's an urban convertible

oh yeah

what is that

they didn't do a convertible

oh my god

it's a converted

I mean I thought the worst car in the world

was the

what's it not the Velar convertible

which one is it

the Evoke convertible

I thought that was the worst car in the world

but actually this one

and this is £170,000

as well

£170,000

do they show a picture

with the roof up because it's going to look like

a silver cross pram with a roof up surely

when that

look at the interior

what were they thinking

but that would appeal to some

footballer's wife

or footballer's husband

sorry I've got to be 20-25

that is

that's

yeah that's special

I mean there's

so

buy an old Defender

if you brought an old Defender

and then had it fitted out for

£25,000 it's suddenly

I mean that's such a speculate

but I love the fact that it was

£180,000 and they put it up

£20,000

in a way though

I don't think it's that dissimilar to what's happened

to air-cooled Porsches

there's all of these back-day and RestoMod

companies that are doing them

so what that means is it trickles down

the price of one

that you would buy as a donor car

to then do a RestoMod

all those prices go up and what you look at

with the Defender market

and you know

there was such a fan base for the old

one their values

didn't just hold

they went up and even

buying not a great one

they're a lot of money

and like you said they don't even be wrong

I'm the biggest Defender fan in the world

I think a short wheelbase original Defender

is one of the coolest looking cars out there

but they're awful to drive

I mean if you put

I do some stuff

and they do

like shooting boxes and stuff

and they do beautiful trimming

and they put LS3 engines in the front

and they're mega mega mega things

they cost a lot of money

so I get it

but it's a lot of money

so while before

because I know you've got two

I thought

I've still got my final one

oh you haven't done it oh no sorry

I'm still in shock from your Lamborghini

Anus

well so this one

I don't know

it's a bit

early on you mentioned the ST

and we're like well that's a bit unrealistic

it's a bit expensive

I mean this is just another

this is a completely different level

really again

oh yeah

because I was looking at buying one of them last week

a Bugatti Chiron

well

you've got to hear me out here

hear me out

if you're lucky enough to be on the list

to get one when they were new 7-8 years ago

I mean this one's again

for 8 years old

so I'm guessing that's probably one of the

earlier ones, beautiful spec

I mean it's lovely

I'll describe it as sharp blue at the front

and black at the back

anyway they listed

at 2.4 million

and

there's not many Chiron's to say on the line

but this is one of the cheaper ones

I found and it's 2.8 million

so once you add spec

it's probably held value

in those 8 years

but there's probably

I'm not a money

or finance advisor

I think there's probably better things that you could have put your 3 million

pounds into

but crypto

but if you did buy

Chiron

you haven't really lost much money

it would have cost you about a million pounds

to service it during that time

well I was going to say

there's a servicing cost thing going on there

wow

but

as we know

that was a bit of a

tongue in cheek car

because a lot of actual level

in a way though

kind of conversation around that

top end super car market

where

I'm sure a lot of them are

speculators buying the cars

not car fans

I mean this car has done 2,200 miles since 2017

that's just

crime basically

they are expensive to

keep on the road

servicing and a servicer

that's probably 35 grand

but they do

tend to hold their money

and I think they're like a dick

it's a bit like that Carrera GT

that was at box and gas

they kind of dicked a bit and nobody wanted them

and then suddenly they become

the next big thing and everyone wants one

and their prices go

absolutely delali

but yeah

interesting

what is it on them

just checking to make sure you've

it wasn't on the brief

make sure it's got cut 2's on it

what's the rating for

I know it's N rating for

Porsche I wonder what the

what the designator is for

for Bugatti

it's probably just a pound sign

wow

there is a rating on that

it's hard to see

James is probably listening

or watching this going telling us what it is

shouting down the phone

as we know

they are very specific tyres for that car

what would it do

350 miles now

I think it's

limited by the tyres

madness

wow

good choice

by a hypercar

or a dog dick red interior

Eurus

a good job we filmed this podcast

before I've had my lunch

bad

really bad

let's briefly

I'm not going to spend lots of time on them

but the 10

slowest depreciating cars

so far in

2025

firstly a Mercedes Benz GLE

coupe that's because only two people bought

one because it's ugly

Porsche McCann

oh yeah baby

especially if it's part of the crayon crew

yeah

Dacia Duster

now that I was going to pull up

I did have a Dacia Duster as a possible car

you think people would think

I'm going to buy a Dacia and just lose a truckload of money

and that's just not the case at all

they're well built they're well priced

and they've got a big following

so yeah at three years and 36,000 miles

you'll have lost

just 36%

of the car's value

amazing

Land Cruiser we've done that

Bentley Flying Spur

oh yeah obviously there's you know

9-11

that's probably a fairly obvious one

they hold their money as well as most

especially the

I mean I just still boggles me

how much you have to spend for

a 5 year old 9-11 having just done the search recently

G-Class Mercedes

that can join your

Eurus for the taste

awards

Defender we talked about that

718 Cayman

we could have talked about like GT4s

and

the 718

Boxter and Spider

having just bought a Spider

for probably about the same amount of money

that it was originally bought for

yep yep

which is depressing

although this article

is saying that a GT4 RS

that was 128,000 pounds

demand an expectation for this driver's car

meant that for many months after

it was selling considerably over list price

well it is now

not anymore

and then the Lamborghini Eurus

oh yeah

oh so it is

yeah well it is number one

I mean

it does boggles

but it kind of boggles my mind

as well at the same time because it is like

if it was a normal Lambo

I kind of get that

like a Gallardo

or something a sports car

but the fact that we all know it is based on

and the funny thing is

the other

obviously that is the same platform that the Cayenne

is based on

and Bentley's Bentaygas based on

Q8 is and all the rest of it

and the Tuareg

and all those cars

but out of all of them

it just doesn't make

why is that one

when I think the Bentaygas is one of the highest

appreciating cars in that segment

but yet the Eurus isn't

and it is basically the same car of the same engine

it is just really bizarre

I don't know but

whenever a brand like

a performance brand brings out an SUV

we go well why are they doing that

that ladies and gentlemen

is why they are doing it because

it makes them a load of money

and I know

we have talked before about what the Cayenne

and the McCann did for Porsche

what DBX to some extent

is doing for Aston Martin

what Eurus has done for Lamborghini and so on

and so forth

that is their cash cow

it is basically a Q8

but they are selling it for 135

or more probably

what is the brand new Eurus now

170,000

if not 200 or something

who knows madness

that was fun

I am now going to

basically have to go and have some counselling

because of that interior

that Eurus

Pat I hope you have managed to overlay

a shot of that

because it is worth seeing

we should put a warning at the start

of this podcast

parental advisory content

don't watch this

disgusting car

anyway guys if you are listening at home

and you have got any ideas

for car challenges for me

and Joe to do

make sure you write the brief properly so that we both follow it

because that normally doesn't happen

do it in nice big font

the pet can see it

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big thanks to shout out to Michelin

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Joe it has been a pleasure my friends

go and spend the rest of the day with your beautiful wife to be

and say hi to Lou

and give Pegs a big cuddle as well

thank you mate

same to you

and I will see you soon

easy now

Can you Avoid Depreciation? Our Picks From 2015-2025! | Ep 71 | Drive Torque Podcast

Opel Astra

Porsche Boxster

Audi A5

Land Rover Range Rover

BMW X5

Audi Quattro

Chevrolet Corvette

Volkswagen Id3

Volkswagen Id7

Toyota Land

Toyota GR Yaris

BMW M3

911 Porsche Gt3

Volkswagen Golf Gti

Land Rover Defender

Land Rover Range Rover Velar

Porsche Carrera GT

Dacia Duster

Bentley Flying

Porsche 911

Mercedes-Benz Gclass

Porsche Cayman

Lamborghini Eurus

Lamborghini Gallardo

Porsche Cayenne

Bentley Bentayga

Aston Martin DBX

About this episode

Original notes