Chinese Door Handles, Volkswagen Tiguan Review, Toyota Learns from Motorsports

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great guests.

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All right, this is the Consumer Guide Car Stuff podcast.

I am Tom Appel.

Thank you for joining us today.

When you have a chance, please check us out at ConsumerGuide.com.

All our new car fun reviews are there.

I recently did something called How Big Is the ID Buzz?

It's a comparison of whether or not the ID Buzz is a legit minivan.

So a nice chart I put together took me hours to do the chart, but it compares the size

of all the minivans available right now in the U.S.

Interestingly, the Buzz is smaller externally, but maybe not so much smaller internally.

That third row, huge, but it's only two passengers.

Some weird stuff going on there.

So it depends on what you need from a minivan, but if you can go electric and you don't need

some of the stuff that maybe the ID Buzz does not have, it could make a great minivan

for you, especially if you don't hit the road in it.

Because again, the mileage is an issue, 235 miles.

I saw way, way, way better than that, but the temperatures have been incredibly mild around

Chicago lately.

Yeah.

This is like the nicest early autumn we've had in decades.

Yeah.

It's so nice out.

Yes.

I usually complain about the weather.

Today I'm not.

I'm like, do you?

Do you complain about the weather?

That voice is Jill Siminello, contributing editor here at ConsumerGuide.com.

Freelancer and North American Car of the Year juror.

How are you?

I'm doing well.

I haven't seen you in a while because we pre-recorded.

You let that slip.

I did.

We pre-recorded last week's episode.

Sometimes you need a day off.

Yeah.

And we got it.

Yeah.

And we got it.

Yeah.

And I actually spent my day off in Utah in the mountains there, training for the

Rival Rally.

Oh, how'd that go?

I think it went well.

Real quick, by the way, you were not sponsored this year.

No.

I was trying to raise some money, a GoFundMe account.

Just tell us about that real quick.

Yeah.

So, you know, my partner actually paid our entry fee, which is $15,000.

And so thank you, Lola.

But I agreed when I agreed to join the team that I would pick up and help with like

pretty much all the other expenses along the way.

And I'm hoping to get some money back to her for registration as well as, you

know, take care of some of our final expenses, which include fuel.

Now, when you say final expenses.

Not at the end.

I'm not planning on dying anytime soon.

I didn't know if you were planning for a dire end to this.

No, no, no.

It's only fuel costs, accommodations as we stay at the hotel where tech

inspection is and stuff like that.

I get a lot of calls, spam calls about final expense plans.

Hmm.

Yeah.

I always like play along if I have time to see how far I can go.

Again.

And yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

So, all right.

Later in the show, speaking of the rebel rally, we have Samantha Barber

and Becky Brophy, both from Toyota.

Yes.

Here to talk a little rebel rally and specifically why Toyota is involved

in the rebel rally and what they get out of it.

Yeah.

With the emphasis on what they get out of it.

Yes.

And the folks at Honda.

So Shira Honda, I think that was the Honda's founder's name, once said

that racing improves the breed.

Yeah.

He's attributed with having said that first, but truly, it's not a

horse thing.

It's a car thing that you go out, you race and you learn stuff from

that because everything happens quickly and more painfully.

And more publicly.

Yeah.

Well, you know, and one of the great things about the rebel rally

and I'm hoping that Becky and Sam will talk about this is, you

know, the idea that you take a stock vehicle.

So a vehicle that you go to your dealer and buy and then

you can do all this hard stuff with.

So, you know, and I'm not going to be in like last year I was driving

a Ram RHO this year.

I'm driving a 2007 Honda Ridgeline.

So I mean, not necessarily one you would think that could be a

strenuous off-roader, but it, you know, and we did make some

modifications to it, but it does, it does hold its own off-road.

What kind of modified, like what mods did you make?

Is it bulletproof?

Yes.

Okay.

No, no.

Because that's the most dangerous part of the course.

Yeah.

The bullets that we have to fly through at the end to get to

the finish line.

No, it's got a lift.

It's got some extra skid plates, some different wheels.

So I mean, nothing like crazy.

Backseat porta potty.

There is a porta potty involved, but it's not in the backseat.

Okay.

And it's not actually a part of the truck, but I'm just going

to say we have one.

That would be handy.

Yeah.

You know, the rebel rally is all women, but guys handle

that situation better.

Yeah, they can.

Although, have you ever heard of a Shiwi?

Nope.

And we don't need to go there.

No, we do not.

I've learned enough from the name.

Yes.

That is, that is, you have learned everything you need to know.

All right.

You just mentioned their names later in the show.

We talked to Samantha Barber and Becky Brophy about

Toyota and the rebel rally.

Oh, you had a quick note about electric cars.

Well, so there's going to be an electrify expo this

weekend in Chicago.

So I guess this is more of a Chicago specific shout out

here, but they are, it's going to be in the Hoffman

Estates area at the now arena.

Oh.

I don't know what now is or what it was.

I feel Sears Arena.

Oh, okay.

So there you go.

Sears, I forgot what it was called, but yeah.

Now.

Yeah, used to be Sears.

So they are, you can buy like a general

ambitions ticket or you can buy like a VIP pack

and have like special access and VIP treatment,

all that.

So like tickets to the expo are like 20 bucks

or 59 bucks, depending on what you do.

But what I really wanted to call out is Ford is doing a

cars and coffee that's free and open to the public from

eight until 10 a.m. on Saturday morning.

So that's the 13th and they're going to have their

electrified lineup there and some experts who can do

walk around to the vehicles and talk about that.

So Ford Ford's thing is Ford vehicle specifically.

Yes, I believe so.

But it's free.

Yes.

And okay, that's out there.

It's open to the public and is there a website for

people to go to for any of this?

If you search for like Electrify Expo in Chicago,

you should find that.

I looked for a link to the cars and coffee and

didn't see one, but I think Rhonda will send us one,

our PR person.

Coming up soon, too, is Chicago Drives Electric.

Yes.

And that is produced by the Chicago Automobile

Trade Association.

Yes.

Similar vibe.

Yeah.

Different things.

It is free, but you do have to register for

everything and they tend to fill out fast.

So just you can go to the Chicago Automobile

Trade Association homepage and find out everything

about that.

Yes.

But you need to register.

So lots of electric things coming up.

Yeah.

And that's cool.

It is.

That's cool.

You have been up to the, what is it called,

the now arena?

No.

What's it called?

Now.

The arena in Hoffman, the States.

Now.

No.

I have not been there.

You have.

Okay.

For media events.

Okay.

They have a huge, huge parking lot.

Okay.

We have used it for stuff.

Okay.

All right.

Not that that matters in any way to anything.

I am driving the Audi S5.

Okay.

A vehicle we don't think about much, I guess,

but it's a coupe.

Well, it's supposed to be a coupe.

Okay.

The A5 is supposed to be a coupe, but this is the

Sportback.

Okay.

This is the four door that is basically replacing

the Audi A4.

Yeah.

Which means that their compact four door is going

to get more expensive next year.

Hell of a nice car.

Yeah.

I saw you pulled into the parking lot ahead of me

and I was like, that has to be Tom.

Yeah.

I don't want to drive that car.

So I'm driving the S5, not the A5.

Okay.

And that comes with a twin-turbo-charged

three-liter V6.

It sounds glorious.

And I bet it probably is very smooth and drives

nice as well.

Oh, yeah.

Really proud shifts.

Okay.

You would definitely want to test drive this.

And if you think that shifts that you feel are

not entirely compatible with a luxury vehicle,

maybe you don't do this.

So definitely test drive it.

I love it.

Okay.

And the interior is surprisingly not Audi.

It's very simple, very monotone.

It's good.

That is very Audi to me.

But there's no chrome accents.

Okay.

I'm like, Audi is very plain.

Really?

No.

I remember Audi being extremely avant-garde

with a lot of chrome and polished aluminum

and stuff like that.

It always looked to me like just a stepped up

Volkswagen.

No.

I never had that feel.

Audi was, I thought the king of interiors

before Genesis.

Interesting.

Took that from them.

But anyway.

I finished finally.

Took me forever.

And I don't know why this took me forever,

except that I was sick last week.

My update, not my update,

but my story about going car shopping with my daughter.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So that's done.

That's up.

That's published.

If people want to check that out,

I will link to that.

And I guess I could link to Chicago Drives Electric

and to, what is it?

The Expo.

The Electrify Expo.

That.

So I can link to those things.

And now, Arena.

So my daughter has read it and approved it.

Would you have posted it if she didn't approve it?

Probably.

I tend to exaggerate things and that irritates her.

But, no, she's good with this.

Okay, that's good.

So that's up.

That's out there.

It's really long.

Lots of good pictures.

Okay.

So.

All right.

Chinese door handles.

I don't know where you're going with this.

If we had a lot of commercial brakes,

we could cut to one right now.

That would be a great teaser.

Okay.

Chinese door handles.

After the break.

One of these crazy little stories,

but it makes for good conversation.

In China, they have cars.

Do they?

You knew that part, I think.

No.

I have an idea.

Oh, well.

I thought they were still using horses.

I'm sure they do.

Okay.

But the Chinese.

And by the way, I kid.

I kid.

Sometimes people think we're serious.

That guy says he's not listening anymore anymore.

Okay.

So I'm not too worried.

The guy who thought we were making fun of the Swedish.

Okay.

Quite the opposite.

We love the Swedish.

We do.

And Swedish fish, dang.

Not the same.

Love them.

Chinese door handles.

Okay.

China is outlawing flush door handles in 2026.

Interesting.

Yeah.

And the reasons for it make perfect sense.

Okay.

Usually you hear about like some crazy law in another country.

You're like, what?

But this one makes perfect sense.

They are worried.

And apparently there has been some examples of this happening.

Door handles that are flush with the car may not pop out

or be accessible in the event or aftermath of an accident.

Oh.

Yeah.

I could see that.

Yeah.

And I just drove a car that had like a leveraged flush.

And I think that'll be fine.

You press on one side and it pops out on the other.

Okay.

So it's like on a lever.

So that's cool.

But other than that, they're worried that the battery may not be in a position

to force the things out.

You can't get in there and get them out.

So that gone.

That actually is very logical.

Yeah.

And I don't know why the U.S. hasn't thought about that.

It seems like the kind of things that American worry warts would have gotten to by now

or even more European worry warts.

Yeah.

So we are now putting it out there for all of our European listeners.

Also China at odds with Tesla very often.

Yeah.

I think all Tesla door handles are flush and pop out.

Yeah.

I think that sounds right to me.

So this is going to be a huge pain in the ass for Tesla.

Because they don't have enough pains in the ass right now to deal with.

No.

Which?

Speaking of pains in the ass.

Yes.

I have a Tesla story for you.

Okay.

And it's one of those stories that seems counterintuitive.

But then when you hear the whole story, you're like, oh, I bet this makes sense.

Okay.

The Tesla Cybertruck.

Okay.

The Cyber Beast.

I've heard it called other things, but okay.

Yeah.

It was $102,000.

Uh-huh.

They've just raised the price to $117,000.

Because they're selling so many of them?

Well, that's the question, right?

Why do you, when you have a vehicle and no one wants to buy anyway.

Uh-huh.

Do you raise the price on your most expensive model of the vehicle?

Any guesses?

No.

It makes sense when you hear the whole story.

Okay.

They're adding a bunch of stuff standard.

Okay.

So there's something called the luxury package.

And I couldn't find out exactly what was in the luxury package.

But one of the things is full self-driving.

Okay.

So that's usually a very expensive standalone option.

That can cost more than $10,000 anyway.

Okay.

Plus free lifetime charging.

Yeah.

Special connected services, and I don't know what they are.

But they're taking all these things that people probably order all the time.

Uh-huh.

And putting them on the vehicle, making them standard and raising the price 15 grand.

And I suspect that this isn't about revenue.

I suspect that this is about inventory management.

Okay.

When a vehicle is selling like 1.6 or 1.7 as well as you had intended it to.

Yeah.

You can't really have as many models and trim levels and variations on the vehicle.

So for probably the least popular version, the $102,000 cyber beast,

everything is all included as sort of a one price thing.

There's probably no options you can add to it.

And it's just the single price.

And it probably makes it easier to manage inventory.

Okay.

And that, so it sounds like what they have done,

and you may not have an answer to this,

is that they've essentially taken all the things that would have subscription fees.

And they've just rolled it into the, you know, the original price.

So like.

I hadn't thought about that.

So because I'm wondering then, okay, you've bought the full self-driving,

but does that include, you know, full self-driving forever?

Usually when you pay the full price for it, that's included forever.

Okay.

And then I never understand the answer about whether or not that transfers to the next owner.

Yeah, probably not.

But free charging for life is a nice thing.

Yeah.

Free charging for life.

Also with connected services, I anticipate that would be,

so Tesla doesn't have Apple CarPlay.

And so, and I think they use like,

I don't know if they use Google Maps or not,

but they would have like.

I think they do.

So they would have some form of like a Google built-in system,

and most automakers charge for that after a free trial.

So maybe they're including.

Yeah.

All of that with, you know, for the lifetime of the first owner.

Yeah.

So I think that's what's going on there.

Also speaking of the Cybertruck, and I hate to rub salt and wounds.

Maybe I don't.

No you don't.

But I'm now seeing at retail resellers of vehicles,

Cybertruck slipping under 70 grand used.

So they're now in the high 60s in a lot of cases.

So the resale value plummet continues to plummet.

Continues to plummet.

Yeah.

It's bad.

Yeah.

So just wait a year, and you can pick up a Cybertruck

for a steal if you really want one.

If people read this story that I wrote about my daughter's car,

they will learn that we bought a year old car,

a certified pre-owned.

And you wonder why there are things like certified

pre-one year old cars with 8,000 miles on them.

But there it was, and it was a heck of a deal.

It's substantially cheaper than a new vehicle.

Also, and this is weird, I think I mentioned this last week,

or last time we spoke, but maybe not.

There were no Hyundai Kona's available in the Chicago area.

Yeah.

Sold out.

Kia Seltos almost sold out.

And in the case of the CX-30, the Mazda CX-30,

which my daughter ultimately ended up buying,

premium trim level versions of that vehicle

with a 2.5 turbo, not available.

Only the more affordable 2.5,

what do they call them, S-2.5, something like that?

Yeah, 2.5S, or yeah.

Delightful cars.

Yeah.

But they don't quite have the spunk.

But those were not available either.

So it's interesting that affordable cars are disappearing.

Yeah.

And continue to disappear.

And we'll see what happens with the Seltos and the Kona.

And I will stay on top of that story and watch for 2026 models.

But I would not be surprised if they'll be scarce.

Yeah.

Speaking of which.

Okay.

Toyota.

Yes.

You've heard of them.

Maybe.

One of the more popular brands in the US.

The Highlander.

Okay.

A couple of years ago, the Highlander,

or the Grand Highlander was introduced.

Okay.

And it was basically a larger Highlander,

a lot larger,

but with a significantly more useful third row.

Yes.

That was kind of the big selling point.

Yeah, yeah.

And in terms of price,

well, they're a little bit differently styled.

Grills different.

The dash is actually not a clone.

The Grand Highlander doesn't look exactly like the Highlander.

But they didn't price the Grand Highlander

excessively higher than the Highlander.

It was like within a grand or two.

So very accessible.

Here's the deal with that.

Grand Highlander now outsells Highlander by about two to one.

Yeah.

Which I fully get.

Yeah.

I fully appreciate why that would be.

So the situation a little bit like the Tesla,

not quite the same.

People still buy Highlanders.

Fewer sales, maybe you don't need all the trim levels.

So this is one of those things that we've been talking about

for affordability and losing base models.

For 2025, the Highlander LE was $41,815 base price.

Toyota has killed the LE for 2026.

Okay.

Making the cheapest version of the Highlander now the XLE.

Okay.

Which kicks in at $46,765.

So if you wanted a Highlander, not a Grand Highlander,

the access point is now five grand higher.

So that's rough.

Yeah.

It reflects lower sales.

And I've got the sales right here.

Grand Highlander so far through the end of July,

or the end of June, I'm sorry,

65,000 Grand Highlanders, 30,000 Highlanders.

So two to one.

I wonder, and I'm not a math expert at all,

but I wonder how much $5,000 translates into a monthly payment.

Is it like $10?

Is it $40?

Because...

There used to be, I think if you,

at 0% interest or something like that,

it was $1,000 was $25 a month.

So five grand's $125 a month.

Okay.

So that's, I mean, that's significant.

That's how much I pay for my parking space in Chicago.

Yeah.

I mean, if we just call it $100,

that's a significant chunk of the monthly payment.

That's a lot of Starbucks coffees.

Now, on the other hand,

we don't know how many people were buying the base alley.

Fair point.

You're probably not losing to many people.

And the ones you're losing are already in the showroom

and might just go with a very well-equipped RAV4.

Right.

So who knows what the opportunity cost of this is?

Right.

I don't know how many people you're moving upstream.

Right.

But anyway, interesting story.

And we saw this with the Explorer.

The Explorer went from eight trim levels to four trim levels,

clipping off the bottom trim levels.

So Explorer got much more expensive for 2025.

Yeah.

Alrighty.

Now you recently...

Currently.

Oh, I didn't see it yet.

Is it like that silver blue?

It's more of a cement color.

Okay.

You are driving the 2025 Volkswagen Tiguan.

Tiguan.

And Volkswagen wants desperately to get deeper into this market.

And they've had a couple foibles.

It wasn't always priced right.

Maybe it was a little underpowered.

But 2025 is redesigned.

Yes.

Significantly redesigned.

Yes.

It's not a complete redesign.

Tell us about this compact Volkswagen.

Yeah.

So I just...

I took a road trip, drove down to Indianapolis to see my mom last weekend.

And so I've spent a lot of time in this car.

And you didn't have to charge because it's not electric.

It's not electric.

Thank goodness.

So I did not have to stop at Electrify America along the way.

But I've spent a lot of time in it.

And I have really having a hard time finding things that I don't like about it.

It's comfortable.

It's fast.

The auto stuff...

It's fast.

Yeah.

It's like very nice and peppy.

It's fast and we'll get back to it.

Okay.

I mean, it's a 2.0 liter four-cylinder turbocharged engine, 201 horsepower.

But it is the right amount of power for this vehicle, I think.

The previous generation was down, I think, 17 horsepower.

Okay.

And people frequently described it as slow.

Yeah.

No, this has a good amount of power.

Well, that's good.

And it's small enough to be nimble, but it's big enough to hold your stuff.

And the seats...

So I had the top-tier SEL R-line trim.

So $41,000, I know.

One reason to hate on Volkswagen is terrible trim levelment.

SEL R-line.

They have complicated names that aren't repeated later.

No.

What the hell is R-line?

I think it's a design package.

Yeah.

It's like sporty design, R-line.

And isn't like the second from the top like R-line black edition?

I don't know.

But it's just like, yeah, I don't know at any rate.

But top-tier, it's about $41,000.

And...

Out the door?

Okay.

I think it was like $41,180.

Wait, I wrote it down.

Okay.

$41,180.

I got it.

I wish that compact crossovers weren't $40,000 now, but they are.

Yeah.

And this has all the things on it.

So it has a large infotainment screen, digital display, head-up display.

It has wireless Apple CarPlay and Android Auto.

It has a wireless phone charger.

It has the heated and cooled seats.

It has comfortable seats.

The leather on the specific test vehicle that I have is like brown and black.

And it's a really nice combination.

It looks really handsome.

The overall design of the vehicle is attractive.

I just...

I think they...

And because it's the top-tier trim, it has the lights in the front, like the welcome

lighting and the emblem that lights up in the front and the emblem that lights up

in the back.

And I've noticed...

So my garage in my apartment building is dark and I walk around the corner from

the hallway and I walk into the dark garage and the vehicle senses my keys.

And all of a sudden, like, the headlights turn on and then the light bar comes on.

And then as you walk around the vehicle, the side lights come on and the puddle lamp

comes on.

And then, you know, you walk up to the side and then the back lights come on.

And it's just very cool.

I had the same experience with the Volkswagen ID buzz.

Yeah.

As I approached it, it went...

It came to life.

Yeah.

It was kind of freaky.

And I've never been in a garage situation where I can, like, walk around a corner

and bam, there it is.

You know, usually I'm unlocking the door and I'm behind the vehicle or whatever.

And so it's just kind of nice to be able to experience the welcome lighting

as you're supposed to experience it.

You would mention right in handling.

And I think that Volkswagen almost never messes that up.

They did once.

What car?

The Taos.

Remember, you and I both had problems with the Taos.

I think it was the all-wheel drive with the...

Well, that's not right in handling.

That's drivetrain.

And yes, that was terrible.

That was terrible.

Yeah.

And in a nutshell, with all-wheel drive, they forced you to take a double clutch transmission.

Yeah.

That was not...

Yeah.

It was absolutely not appropriate for that vehicle.

It was very bad.

But right in handling, that was...

Right.

Yes.

You're right.

Or almost always spent on it.

Yes.

The Volkswagen still has a calling card thing that they can always turn to.

That's it.

So that's great news.

And I just drove the Taos, the new Taos,

which no longer has that terrible transmission.

Yes.

And I think that one of the things...

If I'm going to give a Volkswagen compliments,

right in handling is always good.

Yeah.

Generally quietness is good, too.

Yeah.

And then the interior always seems roomier,

even maybe than it is,

but certainly roomier for the class.

It's almost as if the doors are thinner

and the dash is a little bit more forward,

but they make fantastic use of space.

Yeah.

I'm not sure the dollar value is always there.

And did you have any connectivity issues?

I had one instance where my phone,

like, was connected to Apple CarPlay

and then de-connected

and then I couldn't get it reconnected.

So...

That is my problem with Volkswagen.

But I just had one...

It only happened to me once.

Okay.

It's getting better.

Yeah.

And I just drove the IDBaws,

which I think is the newest version

of their connectivity system.

And it was surprisingly good.

Yeah.

It still does really weird things

when you're playing music,

like it doesn't display the right album cover.

Hmm.

And if you try to randomize,

when it forgets it's randomizing,

it just continues to play the album it was on,

which is weird.

That could be a...

Well, I was going to say

that could be a phone problem

and not a problem with a car.

It could be.

Like, I don't have these problems.

Like, right now I'm in the Audi,

strangely, which is a Volkswagen product.

Right.

No problems at all.

Hmm.

And then I'm getting into a Lexus next week

and I suspect I'll have no problems at all

because I never have problems with Lexus connectivity.

With Lexi connectivity.

So this vehicle competes

with a bunch of stuff that sells better.

Right.

Though this sells well.

But RAV4, CR-V, Rogue,

how does it compare with those?

I think it's more luxury than those vehicles.

I think it's kind of...

Really?

Yeah.

To me, it's a lot nicer.

It looks, I mean, to me,

this looks like what Audi should be.

Really?

Do you think the interior material is here?

I do.

See, I felt like,

even in the ID buzz,

but certainly in the TAUS,

everything was tidy,

really well engineered.

Everything looked good.

It looked German.

You know, in the best possible way.

Just neat and well thought out and laid out.

Everything was good.

But I thought there was a lot of cheap materials

just hidden under the surface.

I mean, so there are a couple of things

that kind of annoy me about the vehicle.

And one is the armrest area where it's...

You have to...

It doesn't create a full encapsulated storage area.

And then when you flip up the armrest,

you have to go all the way back

and then put it down

and then it still leaves a hole in the front.

So you can't hide anything.

Like your keys or whatever in the armrest area.

So that does feel a little flimsy

and it's a little bit annoying.

I like the position of the wireless charger.

I like the clip that holds your wireless charger in place,

but it does overheat your phone.

Your phone?

We have to get to the bottom of this

because my phone never overheats.

You're never in your car for three hours at a time.

No, but I'm in the phone for a long periods of time

and I'm always forgetting to charge my phone,

so I'm always using the phone charger.

And the one in this Audi, by the way,

rocket fast.

Okay, yeah.

And this is not fast

and I probably got about an hour into my drive

when my phone just stopped charging

because it heated up my phone too much.

Do you remember how fussy those used to be?

Yeah, you had to put it in exactly the right spot.

And now this Audi, it's a slot.

You just drop it.

Yeah, General Motors does that.

You just drop it in there

and it just charges.

It's amazing.

And quickly.

The other thing that I noticed with this car

that I thought was really weird is

it has...

So this model specifically has

a special glass

that's heat insulated

and 100% UV protection.

The side glass?

The front, the windshield.

Oh, the windshield, okay.

Trying to go through the tolls,

I could not get it to read my toll reader.

Ah, that's old school.

And so I was sticking my toll pass

outside on my roof,

trying to get it to...

And I was just having a heck of a time

and so I actually just sent a text message

to Art because there's open tolling

on the way up here.

So I just sent a text message

for our fleet manager

and I was like,

so out of curiosity,

do you have the license plate

synced with this

because the toll readers

are having a hard time

reading my toll pass

through the glass?

Send them donuts

because it's not worth them

to try to get...

Worth it for them to try

to get a buck 80 from you.

It's like more than that.

Is it?

Yeah, and if you don't pay it,

I think they charge you

like hundreds of dollars.

Oh, my daughter's got a new car

and she's been using my iPad

because she likes the sticker one

and she can't remove it

from her old car.

All right, anyway.

So the ticker one for 2025

is available in S-E-S-E-R-Line Black.

Dang them.

And S-E-L-R-Line

went from 184 to 201 horsepower

and ranges retail

from 31670 to 41930.

Yep.

41930, I guess,

is with all-wheel drive.

Or no, I think all-wheel drive

is standard on the top trim level.

That's the one I had.

Nice car.

Nice car, really like it.

A couple of quirks

but none of them are deal breakers.

Good technology,

a little bit hard to get used

to the infotainment system

but I still have questions

into Volkswagen about that.

All right.

But I think if you sit down

with your dealer

and have them walk you through it

you'll get it no problem.

But I like it, yeah.

So if you're looking

at a small crossover

this belongs in the RAV4 CR-V

rogue conversation.

And I like this one the best.

All right.

We're going to take a break

when we come back.

We talked to Toyota folks

about Rebel Rally.

Yes.

Let's go and stick around.

Questions or comments?

Drop us a line

at carstuffatconsumerguide.com.

That's carstuffatconsumerguide.com.

Welcome back

to the Car Stuff Podcast.

And we're back.

This is the Consumer Guide

Car Stuff Podcast.

I'm Tom Appel.

She is Jill Siminello

and we're talking

a lot of stuff today.

We are.

We just talked Toyota.

No, we just talked Volkswagen.

Yes.

Talked to a little Toyota.

Yes.

And we talked to a little Tesla.

Yes.

All right.

But we're going to talk

a little Rebel Rally now.

We are.

On the phone with us

from Toyota is Samantha

Barber and Becky Brophy.

How are you guys?

Hi.

We're doing good.

Happy to be here.

Well, thank you

for joining us

and joining us late notice.

We had a shuffle

in the schedule

and I know that this

was an undue complication

for you guys.

So we really appreciate it.

It's exciting for us

to do these types of things.

Well, I'm glad to have you.

You guys, tell us what you do.

Samantha, why don't you start?

Tell us what you do at Toyota.

Yeah, absolutely.

So my name is Samantha Barber.

I am a senior manager

in our production engineering division

and we are the bridge

between design and manufacturing.

So their new models are designed.

We have groups that check

that 3D CAD

for its manufacturability

and then we also ready

the manufacturing plants

with new equipment

or equipment modifications

to produce those new models

for our customers.

Hi, this is Becky.

So I am also

in the production engineering division.

I'm a senior engineer

and what I do is I work on

equipment install

and the assembly shop.

So I work at,

we're both based out of Kentucky.

So we work at TMMK

which is actually the largest

Toyota plant in the world.

So it's super exciting for us.

We love to be here

and working on

installment

to help install

chassis equipment

for the vehicle.

Now that is a big factor, right?

About 7,000 employees.

Yeah, something like that.

Yep.

And what do you guys make done there right now?

So right now we are producing

the Camry, the RAV4

and the Lexus EF.

Okay, all popular stuff.

Now this is a perfect conversation

and I didn't realize how perfect

your positions at Toyota

serve the conversation we're going to have today.

But as you know,

Jill Simonola, my co-host

has been part of the Rebel Rally now for three years.

Yep, this will be my fourth year.

And you guys have been part of the Rebel Rally

for a number of years as well.

And the conversation we wanted to have

really was to ask you guys

what it is that your takeaways are

from this kind of racing

or it's not really racing, right?

It's a motorsport.

Yes.

And what it is you guys take away from that

and really how you guys got involved

directly anyway.

Yeah.

So I'll kick us off about how we got

involved with Rebel.

So in 2020,

I had a friend reach out to me

sharing an article about Rebel

and what it was and what they had going on.

And it aligned a lot with

my passions.

I've got a motorsports engineering degree

and I did the Baja 1000

back in 2024 with Toyota.

So that co-worker friend

shared that article and I

was super excited about it

and followed through 2020.

We had internally paused

our grassroots motorsports team

based on COVID.

I was pregnant with my second child

so we were working

through that part of life.

But we looked into that

and I reached out to Becky

and I said, hey, would you want to do this with me?

And it was an immediate yes.

I'm not even sure if she had time to open the link really.

And then we started putting together

our slide deck

for executives on how this would

align with company goals

and how it could develop our people

and what the benefits are we can get out of it.

And in February of 2021

we got that approval and the funding

to enter for our first year.

Congratulations.

Yeah, it jumped right in April of that year

to training and when we started

Becky and I had no experience

with map and compass that was all very new

and really pretty limited off-road.

So we were able to

talk through the Rebellion courses

that are offered.

I was in the same situation by the way

when Christian and I first

started with Rebell.

It is a challenge.

I was wondering if you could take us inside

your slide deck

that you presented to Toyota

just a little bit.

And so like what kinds of

goals and things did you present to them

to say, hey, this is why we should be doing this?

Yeah.

So kind of right off the bat,

we knew obviously we would be developing

some sort of technical skills.

Like we would learn how to better

drive off-road, we would learn how to

navigate and do all those things.

But what we also saw was

we wanted the chance to be able to

promote women in motorsports

and engineers in motorsports.

So that was something we really connected with.

And then just

challenging ourselves with

this crazy game

was something we were kind of drawn toward.

But I think even after

just that very first Rebell U training,

which with four days

out in the desert,

practicing all of the skills

that we learned for competition,

we found even more

value in it.

So we say that it's

a leadership development program

for us because you learn

so much about communication,

how to be more efficient that way.

Ownership of

when things go wrong

taking ownership of

how to solve those problems

and then problem solving as a whole.

So as Toyota,

we're very grounded in our problem solving

so this was a really cool opportunity

to be able to practice those skills.

So what vehicle did you guys drive

in your first Rebell?

Our first year we were in a previous

gen, the Coya.

So it was outfitted

as a prototype for

the first Fiori Pro

Oh.

Was that the Shacoia?

Yeah it was.

I thought that was so clever.

You guys did a Shacoia

and then you said it was outfitted

with the next generation TRD.

So to some extent this was just

in how it was equipped

sort of testing how stuff would work out in the real world.

Yeah exactly.

It was pretty much a perfect fit I think

for us that first year

because we really wanted

to be in North America.

So we wanted to showcase that.

So yeah it was a really cool connection

for both of us to be able

to be in a vehicle that we actually

make and design here in North America.

So is that part of the reason you guys didn't go

forerunner? That's important correct?

Correct yeah.

Okay cool and then you could have gone

Tacoma I suppose.

Yeah Tacoma or Tundra

all of them are here in North America.

Yeah.

We didn't know what we were getting into

so that the Coya was available

to us and we had a wonderful time

with it.

So you guys are not the only team

that Toyota presents

and I was just wondering if you could

talk a little bit about how many teams

Toyota has

put into the rally and

how do you get to select

or how do you choose

who gets to raise their hand

for this? Is it anybody

do you ask people to join

or like who gets to compete?

Yeah so

in 2021 when we started

it was just two Toyota teams. It was

our production engineering team and then the team

out of R&D in Michigan

and as we learned from that first year

we came back again with another slide deck

to executives to expand the program

because we saw that value in it

and so our second year we brought in

three teams from Toyota

and then we jumped up to

two teams the following year

seven teams after that.

So we've continued to grow our program

this year we're going to have

six total five of those are

internal teams so we'll have

two from production engineering

two from R&D and then one

from our spare parts and accessory division

in Texas and then this year

for the first time we're partnering

with X Overland

and Rachelle Croft

so she'll also be

running for Toyota this year.

So that's a lot of cars to have out there

running in this rally and I assume

then after the fact you guys do want to

gather information and data about how the vehicles

performed or how they didn't perform

do you guys like intentionally

autopsy these vehicles

do you break them down yourselves do you

interview the drivers how do you guys gather

information after the fact?

Yeah our typical way is

interviewing the teams we do some

internal surveys and then we also

talk to the members that competed about

their experience and feed that back to

our R&D group.

And what did you guys learn yourselves I mean your engineers

I think you guys have a lot of insight that other

people wouldn't have.

I've been the driver with Sam

for the past four years so I can

speak to a lot of the

you know the vehicle

interface or you know performance

and honestly I'm

just amazed at what our vehicles

can do

so it's just crazy the places that

we get to go and

that you would never even know existed in the US

but our you know public lands that we get

to enjoy

and you know often times it's

the vehicle in your driveway but you

maybe don't realize it's full potential

so that's been really cool to see.

So do you guys

participate in Bone Stock?

Yeah we did one year

in a forerunner we took it Bone Stock

normally we are

pulled out of Bone Stock because we do at

Skid Plate.

So yeah the Skid Plate we had normally

take us out of Bone Stock

but other than Skid Plate we

get you know

an off-road type tire rather than the highway

tire and we put an external

odometer on but that's typically

all the modifications

we do for our vehicles.

Alright forgive me I don't know what Bone Stock

is Joe.

So Bone Stock essentially means that

you drive this from the dealership and then

you drive it to the rebel right?

Oh okay and is that a category then?

Yeah yeah yeah so last year

I competed in Bone Stock

in the Ram RHO

but the previous two years I did not

but no I

find that really interesting that all you

guys add are Skid Plates because

I think this really just

showcases

and what I think Emily Miller the founder

would like to showcase is how capable

vehicles in your driveway actually are.

Yeah exactly.

So are you guys competing this year?

Oh well we've got a little bit

different so

Becky mentioned the last four years

we have competed together as a

team. Okay. This year we

hadn't intended to compete

because as our program has grown

internally you know the goal is

to develop leaders so if Becky

and I keep taking a seat then

less people get that development that growth

will offer. Great point.

Yeah so Becky

is on staff this year she'll be

driving the media team

and I was just going to be there

for the finish line but we actually

had a member of our R&D

rookie team

turn out not able to compete this year

and they needed someone to sub in so

they discussed internally and they did

reach out so I'll be competing on one of

the R&D teams with the rookie

this year and my role is going to

be from being a navigator to a driver

so I also get some new development

this year. Fun.

What are you driving this year then?

I will be in a 2024

Tacoma TRD Pro.

Okay that seems like it would be really good

at this. Yeah it's a lot of fun

those Tacomas are a lot of fun out there.

So going back you guys drove

Tundra and you drove Sequoia.

Are those vehicles too big for this sort of thing?

What was it that surprised you about their capability

and maybe what made it difficult to

drive those? Yeah I

know they are big vehicles

and Jill I'm sure you can relate to this from

last year but

really I mean the only time I would

say you know I had to

I don't know take some extra

time just because it was that larger vehicle

is if you know we happen to go the wrong way

on a trail which is very seldom

right? Never happens.

You know right and

if I had to take you know try to take a U-Turn

on a very small trail obviously

that's a little bit more difficult but other than

that I think you know no matter

what I'm driving I try to

adapt to you know the

strengths or the different

dynamics of that particular

vehicle. So something like

you know your Tundra's your Sequoia's your larger vehicles

that have that longer wheel base

they're going to be

you know a little bit less

nimble I guess for those tight turns

but they're going to be super stable super comfortable

I mean that Tundra was just a joy

down any dirt road was like

so so comfortable I loved it.

Interesting so if people

want to keep track of everything that Toyota is doing

at this years. Because it's a lot.

Rebel yeah yeah break that down

for us what how many cars are you guys running?

So we'll have

five internal teams this year. Wow.

For that yep

and we'll become we've got

a mixture of vehicles we like

to showcase you know many

of our types of trucks so we do have

the all new

2025 for runner trail hunter we've got

the Tacoma TRD pro that I mentioned

a 2024 land cruiser

and then to Sequoia's

so we've got quite a whole

fleet out there with our five

teams. Wow you guys are busy

that's cool so tell me

obviously people can go to rebel rally and check out their website

and there's pretty good daily

live coverage of the rally are you guys

doing anything in addition to cover the Toyota

activity. Well

Toyota does sponsor the

live show so with

that sponsorship of the live show

yeah there is plugged into

our social media

Toyota social media

account will be

shared there as well. Cool. What are you guys

most excited about this year?

I'm really excited to see

the other side you know I've been a

competitor for the past four years but I can't

wait to see what it's like

on the other side of it. Sounds good

You're going to be working with my partner next year

or this year. I know

I'm so excited.

Alright well we have flat right out of time

but we totally appreciate you guys joining us today

and good luck with the rally.

Thank you. Thank you.

Yeah thank you guys I'm so excited you guys could join

and I'll look forward to seeing you

in what less than 30 days

Wow it's coming up fast.

Wow thank you guys. Alright

that was Samantha Barber and Becky Brophy

with Toyota we're going to take a break

Chris time. Quiz time.

I'm going to be loosely affiliated with some social media

activity. Loosely vaguely

associated with social media yeah I'm on

pretty much everything

and you can find me at Jill Siminello

and my

the hashtag I use is Car De Jure

so you know and I love

to talk cars with people.

There you go. I am Car Guy Tom

on X and

Blue Sky. And did you join

TikTok over the weekend? No.

Because I got a notification

that said somebody in your contacts

has joined TikTok called Car Guy Tom.

Weird.

I'm just saying you

have a shadow account on TikTok now.

Oh god.

Yeah no my daughter

sends me TikTok stuff.

And we're very into following

like new food releases and stuff like that

so that's a lot of stuff.

Also my daughter's into really strange things

like she's now super into Chernobyl

and the whole

disaster that that was. So whenever

something pops up there she shares that with me as well.

Got it. So

not you but you.

Great. I've had

shadow accounts. There's like one on Facebook

again too. I don't know why. Yeah.

I don't know why. What does anyone get

from that? Because they like to

impersonate you. But why?

I don't know. So weird. Alright

it's quiz time. Okay. We are a little

pressed for time. Okay.

I'm quiz time. So you're telling me I can't

Well we have 11 minutes. Okay.

I can do this in 11 minutes. No problem.

Well this might take you a little longer.

You might want to have pen and paper handy.

Okay. Great. You're going to make me do math.

No. Today's topic is

more spelling.

Great. I do have a pen.

Oh. What is that?

What is that?

Oh I'm a bright. Okay.

I'm a bright ray of sarcasm. That's what my pen says today.

Where did you get that pen? I think my sister

gave it to me.

Alright. Today's topic is spelling.

I'm going to give you a car model. Alright.

Just a car model that was sold in the U.S.

How hard can this be? Really hard.

And then you have to spell it. Oh great.

Five questions. Total plus the bonus

question. You need three for a victory.

Okay. Are you ready? Yeah.

First one's going to be the hardest. Okay.

Now it's probably the easiest.

That might be second hardest. Okay.

Oldsmobile.

Sierra.

Sierra was a

compact size by modern standards

but it was a midsize

sedan and coupe sold by Oldsmobile

between 82 and 96.

Very, very, very popular

and very popular in rental fleets.

So.

Sierra.

Not to be confused with the GMC Sierra.

Nope. Different vehicle.

So probably not spelled like the GMC Sierra.

I'm going to leave that to you.

Yeah.

But probably not.

I don't

I don't think it begins with a C.

You don't? No.

Okay.

Although now I'm rethinking that because

you're very

circumspect. Yeah.

I do need to rush you a little bit here.

Alright. I'll say

S-I-E-R-A.

No.

C-I-E-R-A.

Oldsmobile Sierra.

Extremely popular. Used to be everywhere.

Okay.

Alright.

You have no points.

Your favorite phrase, I have no points.

This one you probably will get though

the spelling is strange.

Oh yeah.

I do have to write that down.

Because

I always remember.

Because even if you know the weird part of it

in a weird way. So it's G-U-I-L-I-A.

No.

Is it G-I-U?

It's G-I-U.

G-I-U-L-A. Yeah. It's really weird.

Well it's Italian.

If it matters it means youthful and devoted to Jupiter.

Okay.

Alright. You have no points. I still have no points.

Yeah. I'm putting little X's here. It means you have no points.

My spelling teacher from the fifth grade

Mrs. Young is very disappointed

of me right now.

Lamborghini Murcielago.

You don't need to get the ax

correctly.

I think I'm going to not get this right.

I think you're not either.

Murcielago.

It was Lamborghinis.

This was the 12 cylinder car between 2002 and 2010.

Okay.

Replaced by the Aventador. If you want you could spell that later.

No. I think it's like

M-U-R-C-I-E-L-A-G-O.

Yes.

You just saved your butt.

I'm going to win now. No.

I'm going to write down one point.

Murcielago means bat.

Bat?

Yeah. We get away with one syllable in the U.S.

Murcielago. They get five.

Yeah.

I wonder why things are lost in translation.

Yes. This one's tough. Are you ready?

Okay.

Chevrolet Biscayne.

And I know Randy can spell that.

Biscayne?

Biscayne.

I think it's B-I-S-C-A-Y-N-E.

Yes.

Nice job.

Yeah. The Biscayne was sold in the U.S.

between 58 and 75.

I didn't know it went as deep as 75.

Hm.

Because at that time we were already calling things impolas.

Okay.

And I think Caprice was already a trim level too of the big Chevy's.

Biscayne is a Basque region of Spain.

Which makes us the third week in a row

we've mentioned the Basque.

You better be careful.

Randy's going to think we're making fun of them.

Yeah.

Alright. And finally

Ford Galaxy.

Oh.

Ford Galaxy.

Because it's not Galaxy like you would normally spell it.

I know that much.

Okay.

But I think it's G-A-L-A-X-I-E.

You win.

Nice job. Yes. That's what it is.

The Galaxy name.

I don't remember a 59 Galaxy.

I thought it kicked in for 60.

And 60 was a big redesign year for Ford.

Okay.

And the Galaxy was like a top trim level on the big Ford's.

So that name waited all the way through 74.

And I think there's versions of it.

Galaxy 500.

I think Galaxy XL 500.

A lot of use to Galaxy.

But you got three points. Nice job.

You don't need the bonus question.

But.

We always say the bonus question.

Donald, do you think there are on the planet?

100,000.

You're not terribly far off.

44,000.

How many do you think there are in the U.S.?

20,000.

14,000.

And finally, how many do you think there are in?

I'm just taking this basket thing too far.

Spain.

Okay. So I have a side story.

You have four and a half minutes.

When I was trying,

and this doesn't even remotely have to do with Spain,

but it has to do with Italy.

When I did the backpack thing

when I was in college.

In Italy.

You mean you watched TV with snacks in a backpack?

No.

Literally traveled around in a backpack.

In a backpack.

Yeah, I could fit in the backpack.

Did the guy with the backpack know you were in it?

No, he did not. I was just tagging along.

Yeah, it was a very large backpack.

I actually probably could have fit in it.

But it was...

We did go to Spain.

But we started in Rome.

And in Rome, the McDonald's there,

and I don't know if they still do it,

but at the time, they used to have

maps at the McDonald's.

Like a three-day walking tour of Rome.

And all you had to do was go into McDonald's

and you could get this map.

And it was literally the best map you could ever have.

That's community-friendly.

You just walk around and you got to see all the things.

But, okay, so that was my side story.

In Pelotin, you can get a map of the stars.

Okay.

But there are no stars in Pelotin.

So it's not a good map.

You're a star. People are pretending to be you.

If I'm the closest thing to a star here,

this is a very sorry little community.

Well, I didn't, you know.

Okay, I wasn't going to go there.

Did you answer how many there were in the 600?

No, we did not. I was going to say two.

Do you know how many there are in the Basque region of Spain?

I don't know. Okay. No.

All right, I need you to tell me which of the following

is not on the McDonald's menu in Spain.

Okay. How have we not done this yet?

I don't know. Spain is a big country.

McDonald's is a big chain. This seems easy.

Yes. All right. But the Spaniards,

which is not what we call Spanish people,

can choose from four things here.

Are you ready? One of them is fake.

The McRoyal deluxe.

This is hard to say.

The McExtreme dip in cheese double.

Okay.

The McExtreme.

And there was a distinction between Mc and Mc.

The McExtreme pulled pork.

I think I need the word sandwich there.

And the McCrispy ham and cheese.

I need something to fill the dead air.

I know. There's music.

Well, you could also hum too.

You don't want me to hum.

Probably not.

Okay, what was the first one?

The McRoyal deluxe.

I think it's got to be

the ham and cheese thing.

Did you ever see the movie Pulp Fiction?

It's been many years.

Okay. I'm sorry. So McRoyal deluxe,

McExtreme dip in cheese double,

McExtreme pulled pork,

or the McCrispy ham and Swiss?

Yeah. What do you say?

The ham and cheese. It's fake?

Yeah. It is. Nice job.

Yeah, that just doesn't, I mean,

I would think they would call it like

embalone or something like that.

You're not familiar with the McRoyal exchange

in Pulp Fiction? No.

You need to watch that. Okay.

It is a cultural thing.

Okay. All right.

We've got a couple minutes here left.

I mentioned that I finally finished my piece

on my daughter buying a car.

So that is done. Very happy with that piece.

So, yeah, people should check that out.

You have a GoFundMe campaign.

Yep. We mentioned that at the beginning.

Yep. And that's how do people find that?

You put it on the Facebook page.

So, if you go to the Facebook page,

for the CarStuff podcast,

you'll be able to find it there.

Speaking of that, if people want to do us a favor,

follow us on Facebook.

That is the Consumer Guide CarStuff podcast

on Facebook. Also, reviews.

Especially if you're on

if you're on Apple.

Yeah. Leave us a review. We'd appreciate it.

Yeah. All right.

Only if it's a nice one, though.

Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, we'll take our lumps.

Especially for making fun of Swedish people.

Well, yeah. There is that.

All right. Full show. Thank you to

Samantha Barber and Becky Brophy of Toyota.

Thank you, Jill. Thank you to

producer Randy and the good folks here at TalkZone.

Let's talk more about cars again next week.

Next week.

Yeah.

Chinese Door Handles, Volkswagen Tiguan Review, Toyota Learns from Motorsports

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Audi S5

Audi A4

Tesla Cybertruck

Hyundai Kona

Kia Seltos

Mazda Cx30

Toyota Grand Highlander

Toyota Highlander

Toyota RAV4

Ford Explorer

Volkswagen Tiguan

Nissan Rogue

Toyota Camry

Toyota Tundra

Toyota Land Cruiser

Gmc Sierra

Lamborghini Murcielago

Lamborghini Aventador

Chevrolet Biscayne

Chevrolet Caprice

Ford Galaxy

About this episode

Original notes