Classic Auto Mall - #226 - Stewart Howden with Guest Darren Law
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Concept
Apex Motor Club
Apex Motor Club is a special place where car lovers can drive on race tracks and enjoy their cars in a private setting, similar to a golf country club but for motorsports.
Concept
race tracks
Race tracks are places where cars can go really fast and race against each other. They are built to keep drivers safe while they enjoy driving at high speeds.
Car
Mercedes S65
The Mercedes S65 is a very powerful luxury car that has a big engine, making it very fast. It's designed for comfort and performance, but it's not practical to drive at full speed on regular streets.
Car
BMW GT4
The BMW GT4 is a type of race car made by BMW. It's built for racing and is based on their regular cars but has special features to make it faster and safer on the track.
Concept
Bob Bondurant
Bob Bondurant was a famous race car driver who also taught people how to drive better. He started a school where you could learn advanced driving skills.
Company
Flying Lizard Motorsports
Flying Lizard Motorsports is a racing team that competes in sports car races. They are known for being very successful and have a lot of experience in the racing world.
Concept
IMSA
IMSA is a group that organizes car racing events in the U.S. They have different types of races, including ones for sports cars.
Concept
SRO
SRO is a company that organizes car racing events, especially for sports cars, in different parts of the world.
Term
GT cars
GT cars are fast sports cars that are made for racing but also comfortable enough to drive on the road.
Concept
Laguna Seca
Laguna Seca is a well-known racetrack in California where many car races take place. It has a famous turn called the Corkscrew, which is very steep and exciting to watch.
Concept
purpose built racecar
A purpose built racecar is a car made just for racing, not just a regular car that has been changed. It's built to be as fast and safe as possible on the track.
Car
Lamborghini Huracán STO
The Lamborghini Huracán STO is a special version of the Huracán sports car that is made for racing but can still be driven on the street. It is lighter and faster than regular versions.
Concept
Barbara Motorsports Park
Barbara Motorsports Park is a racetrack where cars can race and practice. It's a place for both professional and regular drivers to enjoy racing.
Concept
go-karting
Go-karting is a type of racing that uses small, lightweight vehicles called go-karts. It's a popular way for young drivers to start learning how to race before moving on to bigger cars.
Concept
International Karting Federation (IKF)
The International Karting Federation, or IKF, is a group that helps organize and manage go-kart racing events. They set the rules for the races and help promote the sport.
Brand
McLaren
McLaren is a company that makes very fast and expensive sports cars. They are also famous for racing in Formula 1, which is a top-level car racing series.
Concept
Safe as Fast
Safe as Fast is a program that helps drivers become better and safer on the road or track. It was started by a group of racing drivers and aims to teach important driving skills.
Company
RRDC
The RRDC is a club for racing drivers that helps them improve their skills and stay safe while racing. They offer programs and support for both new and experienced drivers.
Concept
Bobby Rahal
Bobby Rahal is a famous race car driver who has won many races. He helps organize programs to make racing safer and better for drivers.
Concept
Mark Donahue
Mark Donahue was a famous race car driver who won many important races in the past. He is known for being very skilled and for helping improve racing cars.
Concept
Formula One
Formula One is a top-level car racing series where drivers compete in fast cars on special tracks. It's famous for its exciting races and advanced technology.
Concept
24 hour race
In a 24 hour race, cars race for a full day without stopping. Teams take turns driving, and they need to plan when to switch drivers and refuel to keep the car running.
Concept
Can-Am cars
Can-Am cars were part of a racing series where teams built very fast and powerful race cars. These cars were famous for their unique designs and high speeds.
Brand
Penske
Roger Penske is a famous name in car racing, known for owning racing teams and being involved in many successful racing events.
Concept
Super Touring
Super Touring is a racing category where regular cars are modified to compete against each other. It's known for exciting races with different types of cars.
Company
Brumos Porsche
Brumos Porsche is a famous car dealership and racing team that specializes in Porsche cars. They have a long history of racing and are known for their success in competitions.
Car
Chevrolet Corvette
The Chevrolet Corvette is a fast and stylish sports car that many people love. It has been around for a long time and is famous for being a symbol of American car culture.
Car
Porsche 917
The Porsche 917 K is a famous race car from the early 1970s. It was very powerful, with about 1000 horsepower, and is known for being challenging to drive, even for skilled drivers.
Term
1000 horsepower
Horsepower is a way to measure how powerful an engine is. When a car has 1000 horsepower, it means it can go really fast and accelerate quickly, but it might be hard to handle for some drivers.
Car
Chevrolet Camaros
The Chevrolet Camaro is a type of sports car that is known for being fast and stylish. It has been around since the 1960s and is often compared to other cars like the Ford Mustang.
Concept
Circuit of the Americas
Circuit of the Americas is a famous racetrack in Texas where many car races happen, including Formula 1. It's known for its tricky turns and hills, which make it exciting for drivers.
Car
Hyundai Sonata
The Hyundai Sonata is a comfortable car that is good for everyday driving. It has a lot of features that make it safe and easy to use, which is why many families like it.
Car
Volkswagen Beetle
The Volkswagen Beetle is a small, quirky car that has a very unique round shape. It was really popular in the past and is often seen as a fun and friendly car.
Car
Pontiac Firebird
The Pontiac Firebird is a powerful sports car that was made to be fast and fun to drive. It became really popular in movies and TV shows, making it a favorite among car lovers.
Car
Ford Thunderbird
The Ford Thunderbird is a classic car that was made to be both stylish and comfortable. It was very popular in the 1950s and is loved by car enthusiasts for its cool design.
Car
Chevrolet Blazer
The Chevrolet Blazer is a tough SUV that can handle rough roads and is great for outdoor adventures. The older models, like the K5, are especially loved for their classic look and strong build.
Car
Chevrolet Monte
The Chevrolet Monte Carlo is a nice-looking car that was made for comfort and style. The older models, like the 1972 version, are especially popular because they have a classic charm.
LIVE
This is the Classic Automall Show.
Broadcast from the studios inside the Classic Automall in Morgantown, Pennsylvania.
Just one hour west of Philadelphia at Pennsylvania Turnpike Exit 298.
Featuring nearly 1,000 classic vintage and barred fine vehicles for sale under one climate controlled roof.
Now, here's your host, Classic Automall president and the man with all the toys, Stuart Howden.
And welcome to show number 226.
Hey.
Hey, hey, hey.
How about that?
226 on, can I, can I have a mic?
Hello?
Hello?
You're on.
Am I on?
You're loud and clear, man.
Hey, turn on your headphones.
Yeah, my headphones.
If I help you.
226 on, in the first show for 2026.
On 2026.
For 2026.
Absolutely.
So how great is that?
So we'll go quickly and get to our guests right away.
But first and foremost, how many cars in inventory JR?
Well, I would say because keeping that theme 926, but I'm going to go with 956.
Oh, okay.
And Steve.
Good guess.
Weather's been a little shaky lately.
I'm going to hit you if you go one over.
I'm not going to go 960 though.
How about 955?
Oh, you both overbid.
That's right.
Well, okay.
We'll save it up for next week.
All right.
Let's get to our guest.
Yes.
Darin Law is joining us from Arizona.
I guess you're calling from this morning or where you located this morning, Darin?
It's outside of Phoenix at the Flying Lizard.
I'll call it headquarters.
Headquarters.
Darin is a professional race car driver, a coach, an instructor, a mentor, businessman,
broadcaster with Fox.
Anything else on the resume we're missing?
Nice guy.
All around good guy, right?
I love Scottsdale Phoenix area.
That's a wonderful part of the world and especially this time of year.
It just doesn't get any nicer weather than this time of year in Scottsdale.
Oh, yeah.
It's so good.
I mean, every winter, I'm like, this is why I live here.
It's 75 and sunny and every summer I'm like, why do I live here?
The old crack and egg and fry and egg on the sidewalk trick, right?
It gets hot out there does, but it's that dry heat.
So, you know, that's, I don't ever understand that.
I'm likely we're off racing most of the summer, so.
True.
I get it.
We, and I guess it's a good place to be for testing and things like that.
I mean, you've got tracks close by.
Are you fairly close to the track?
So, yeah, very close.
Like literally I can walk across the parking lot to it.
So, we're at, there's a new facility.
It's just like there's a lot of country clubs being built up.
It's Apex Motor Club and it's a private country club.
It's got two different race tracks on site.
They're both two and a half miles a piece and our shops are on site,
which is nice.
So good.
I can test anytime I want.
So, it's been really a good move for the team.
And what are your thoughts?
You know, country club racetracks, the prolific, I mean, it's, they're everywhere.
I mean, it's amazing.
I have a bad feeling that the bottom is going to drop out on somebody.
Somebody, the music is going to stop playing and somebody is going to be left standing.
But boy, there, there's some great ones, including one in East Tennessee at Flat Rock
that they're building the 10-tents and Charlotte, the Apex one.
I mean, every time you turn around, you hear about a new one coming out.
Yeah, yeah.
There's a bunch of them and they've done a really good job here.
There's, there's, there's, I think, over a hundred garages and we've got a country,
like a whole area for food.
They're building a restaurant and so it's been really nice.
It's nice because, you know, all these guys own these amazing cars that you can't really,
you can't ring them out on the street like you'd like to.
I mean, I know that we always talk about jokingly.
I had a S65 Mercedes V12 twin turbo.
I don't think I ever floored it, you know, because on the streets, it would just be too much.
Oh, no, for sure.
So yeah, the great thing here is like the members, they, it's basically open to them
every Wednesday through Sunday.
It's an open trip.
That's awesome.
Do you, and do you, when you all are out on the track, do you like take it, do they push
everybody off and you get to stay out there for a while or do you guys work on like Mondays
and Tuesdays?
No, we work, we run, like we're testing right now.
I've got some BMW GT4 cars.
We're running for the next two days.
Everyone runs together.
Most of the cars out there are, there's some street cars now and then, but it's mostly
race cars.
Right.
Right.
And guys have them just keep them right there at their garage or their condo or whatever
a condo tell or whatever they call that.
The man came garage.
Actually, we store several here for, for members as well.
Right.
So how long have you been in that location?
Going on two years.
So Flying Lizard was actually based at Sonoma at the racetrack for 20 years.
Right.
We, we just over two years ago, just under two years ago.
Right.
We're at Arizona.
Yeah.
It's, you know, another great track as well too and a great place to be in that part of
the world.
Certainly nice weather there most of the time, right?
So, and you were a Bondurant instructor back in the nineties and then came back and did
that in the two thousands.
Yeah.
So I actually, I was hired whenever I grew up racing go carts and I went off to England
racing.
When I came back to the US, I was hired on at Bondurant, which is here in Arizona.
Sure.
And about six years instructing there.
And then my career took off early in the racing industry.
And then as it was starting to slow down, I came back and managed the place for a couple
years.
I was there in 2002, 2001, 2002 when I worked for eBay and they had a corporate outing
that we had there at Bondurant and riding with those instructors on that track.
There was one corner that you literally, the car was completely unsprung and there was
a right hand turn and somehow the car turned and you just, in your mind, you said there's
no way that this car can turn and it did.
I know.
I know.
No, it's pretty amazing.
Like people until they, the average person who doesn't get on a race track until they
go through something like that and that's a really nicely controlled environment.
You don't understand what a car can do.
I thought I was a good driver until I rode with that guy and I'm like, I'm not even
in the same ballpark.
This is crazy.
And the cool thing was, is that the old man came out at the time he was still hanging
around and he said, I'm going to take a couple laps and he want to go, anybody want to go
and I raised my hand and got to ride with Bob Bondurant around the track and not going
very fast, but fast enough.
But I always thought it'd be funny if something happened and we were killed, it would be famed
race car driver, Bob Bondurant and unknown passenger work.
But that had to, that had to be a lot of fun and I bet it was interesting to see guys who
would come in from the corporate level that are a business guys who were actually really
good at driving and maybe didn't know it before they came to the Bondurant school as a kind
of a corporate thing.
Yeah, no, we saw that a lot and they did a lot of corporate programs and there were
a lot of great race drivers that came through that program as well.
Sure, sure.
So we were, Flying Lizard Motorsports is your racing team that you are, I guess, the team
principal and manager of the team?
Yeah, I have two other partners, so long story short, I drove for Flying Lizard for 10 years.
I mean, that was my original program in racing.
I was a pro driver and hired to drive and when I basically retired from driving, Flying Lizard
was, the gentleman that started it was starting, was considering shutting it down, didn't want
it to go away and offered the team to myself and two other guys involved and now I own
the team that I used to drive.
Isn't that crazy?
I love that though.
And where did the name Flying Lizard come from?
Funny story.
Honestly, I don't know.
I love that.
20 years ago, you know, whatever it's been called, Flying Lizard and you would never
tell anybody where the name came from and when we finally got to the point where we were
basically taking over, buying out the team, his name was Seth Nyman.
I'd said to him in our negotiations and in our contract, I said, you have never told
me where the name came from.
And again, I drove for him for a decade straight in the face and he said, yeah, and I never
will.
Oh, my gosh.
So it's serious, but I honestly, I've been with Flying Lizard now 20 years.
I still don't know.
Isn't that crazy?
You get that question asked a lot, right?
I mean, it's not.
We've done online things.
Where do you think the name came from?
But yeah, honestly, we don't know.
Is he still alive?
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, he's maybe 70 and I talk to him every couple of months we stay in touch.
You got to ask him.
Just every time you talk to him, you have to make it your mission just to ask him until
he just caves.
I love that.
So and of course, you guys race pretty much, I mean, all across the United States, but
also some other tracks over in Europe and different places as well.
So we run.
We run in IMSA.
We run in SRO.
We race GT cars primarily all through the US.
We've spent the last few years.
We've run a European program in SRO World Challenge Endurance.
We ran Bentley's in Europe, Lamborghini's in Europe.
So it's been a it's been a it's been a great program.
Sure.
Sure.
Do you have a track that's particularly your favorite or one that you all do very well
at for any particular, no particular reason?
We do great everywhere.
All right.
There you go.
Well, that's a great answer.
Do you like me personally driving?
There's so many.
I mean, I have so many that I can't rate one.
I mean, Watkins Glen sticks out.
There's there's just some great tracks in the US that I love driving.
Well, there's pockets of each track that are probably stand out more than the overall
track.
The corkscrew at Laguna Seca and things like that, which is, you know, amazing to watch
as a spectator.
I can only imagine what it's like to drive when you're driving down the side of a skyscraper.
All of a sudden.
That's a big drop off.
Yeah.
And you all in this, it's the Lamborghini series that you guys are heavily involved
in as well.
Do you have a triple podium at Indianapolis this past year?
We had several podiums.
We won the championship.
The first year we entered the Lamborghini series, although for 2026, and it's really,
you know, this is kind of more customer racing, we're not going to run that series next or
this year.
Right.
The last four years.
Yeah.
All right.
And are they super modified streetcars or purpose built racecars?
Purpose built racecars.
It's a, it's based off of the STO streetcar.
Oh wow.
It's a super Trafeo.
It's a purpose built racecar.
Sure.
Sure.
And I see you all raced at a cool track that I've never been to, but Barbara Motorsports
Park.
That's got to be a really cool place to go.
That museum that he has there is absolutely amazing too.
Beautiful track.
It's like, it's like driving into a country club landscape artwork everywhere.
They say his, his budget for his landscaping is would make your eyes water.
I'm sure.
I don't know what it is, but when you drive in, it looks like it.
Sure.
Sure.
And you said that your racing career started in go-karts early age with 10 or 11 years
old when you started in carts.
Yeah.
I started racing carts when I was 11 years old and I ran carts until I was about 18 and
won a national championship in carting.
It was the IKF, the international carting federation, which is still running.
But yes, it's been several years in carting before moving up into cars.
And we always talk about this with, with road race drivers.
Is the carting program in the U S behind Europe or is that an, is that an old wives
tale and it's, that doesn't mean the same as it used to say it's behind Europe.
But I think it's, it's bigger in Europe.
I think there's, it's a bigger program and the U S is so big.
So there's, there's the East coast.
There's the West coast.
There's regionals.
So it's, it's not as concentrated.
Sure.
Sure.
And you had an overall win at Daytona also in 2009.
2009.
So I drove for Bruno's Porsche.
How cool is that?
It was, I mean, I've raced Daytona for 20 years and, you know, been on the podium
multiple times, but to get an overall win is not easy.
No, it is.
You could be the best prepared.
Everything can be perfect and it doesn't matter.
Well, it's, it's a hard one to win.
That's for sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and the nice thing is, is you get a cool watch too.
So that
I got a nice, I got a nice Daytona, you know, engraved.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
You don't get winter engraved on just everyone that you buy, right?
And have you ever raced?
It was just a curiosity question more than anything.
I always asked race car driver, have you ever gotten a race at Pike speak?
I have been there, but I haven't raced.
It looks crazy.
I mean, like the one thing that might even scare a good race car driver.
You know, I would be cool to do it, but it's not, it's not, it's not for the fainted heart,
man.
There's, there's no guardrails.
I mean, if you make a mistake, you're, you're going off a cliff, basically it looks like.
It's a different, like a rally driver is a different mindset of that type of driving.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We've actually, we ran it as flying lizards.
We went there with a McLaren for a two or three years and we had a driver that's run
it a bunch of times, run, run the class and finish second, right, but I have not driven
it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I would think that that, you know, one of those things that, you know, you'd like to
drive it if there wasn't pressure of trying to win or something, if you could just drive
up and get on it a little bit when you felt comfortable.
I'd like to check it out sooner or later.
Yeah.
My kids lived out in Colorado Springs, a couple of them, and we've always never got a chance
to go there, but because it was always snowing or whatever when we were there.
So, but now not only are you running this, but you're the new or fairly new executive
director of safe as fast, which is a great driver development program, I guess, started
by the RRDC and Bobby Rahall, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I've been a member of the RRDC since probably 06 or 07 and it started back in the day of
Mark Donahue and it was a kind of exclusive drivers club, but safe as fast as they asked
me to join the program and Con and help bring it into, you know, this more of this modern
era and it is, it's a great program.
They produce videos, produce a video every couple of months on driver development and
all the different topics for drivers to look at and learn from.
So it's a really neat program.
Sure.
Well, and it's giving back to the business and also encouraging people to continue with
it.
And you don't want to get a guy too frustrated when they're first starting out and just,
you know, scrap it when they had maybe an opportunity because not everybody's great
when they start, right?
Oh, no, and it's a great resource.
It's got a lot of pro drivers giving lots of advice on everything from testing to handling
issues to fitness to nutrition.
I mean, everything and cornering, you know, how to handle the break zones and passing
and there's so many good videos on there.
And like you said, for me, having been a driver and now a team owner, it's a great way for
me to give back and be involved in racing.
Sure.
It's funny how important physical fitness and diet are these days when it used to, it
wasn't even thought about probably 25 or 30 years ago.
Those guys are, they were smoking running down the track.
But not to the level, I mean, you know, to be a pro driver these days, I mean, you have
to have every aspect from media to fitness to driver's skill.
I mean, everything is involved.
Well, yeah.
And you say the media thing, I mean, you've got to be good in front of the camera.
You got to be a likable personality because you got sponsors who are giving you millions
of dollars.
And that's got to be probably the toughest and maybe the least fun if you're a team owner
is the sponsorship just because it's difficult.
People just say, oh, you should just get a sponsor.
Okay.
Well, you do it.
It's so easy.
It's funny you'd say that.
So, I mean, I spent most of my life driving and whatever, I moved on to team ownership
and I did not realize as a driver what went into running a racing team and I laugh every
time now, but I look back and I always say, man, did I have a good one as a driver because
this is a lot of work.
There's so much of all.
Well, and because there's so many outlets for people to spend their money, whether they're
a company or an individual sponsorship or whatever, there's a hundred different things.
You can name a stadium.
You can sponsor a race car.
You can just, you know, the outlets that are out there are amazing and so you got to fight
for every dollar and God forbid you have a bad season and then, you know, that's the
other part of it.
No, it's definitely tough and it's a lot of work and there's a lot of logistics and
seven days a week.
I'm going with this thing.
Yeah, I thought just cell phones and computers were going to lower our workload.
I don't think that happened.
Did it?
Sure.
Yeah.
Well, my wife and I always say when we go on vacation, we're like, I don't even know
why we go because we're in there.
Both of us sitting in the hotel room, work on our laptops, you know, answering emails
and doing everything you got to do.
It's just part of it.
Part of unplugged for sure.
Yeah, it really is.
I think that's the biggest problem that everybody has anymore is just unplugging.
And, of course, you had a little bit of some broadcasting as well, too, with Fox and Lamar
and Seabring and a few other places.
Yeah, that was a really, really neat experience and, you know, when I, it was right when I
basically had stopped driving and got into the team program.
Obviously, I mean, I'd worked with, if you know, or if you're familiar with Calvin Fish
and Brian Till and all those guys.
So, yeah, I mean, I did some broadcasting.
I did some pit lane reporting.
I did the booth for Lamar for about three years.
So, really great experience, a lot of fun to do.
And again, another industry that I didn't know a lot about, but those, and they study
and research and there's a lot of work because of that.
Yeah, when you see a guy like, you know, Bob Varsha or Mike Joy or even David Hobbs,
who was a driver and, you know, these guys, I mean, they're knowledge based.
And I know that they have cue cards and prompters and all that stuff, but you can just tell.
I mean, you watch like Mike Joy at a Barrett Jackson auction, just standing
out there talking about the next car coming up and the knowledge in his head.
You can almost see the cogs turning.
It's a pretty amazing thing because it's not easy.
It's really not easy.
Oh, it's not easy at all.
But yeah, like, like you said, I mean, coming into that, doing some of the broadcast stuff,
I felt it was, I felt comfortable talking about the driver situation or the cars
or the pit stops or whatever, because I'd been there.
But it's, you have to be very, very knowledgeable.
Sure.
And with the Safest Fast program, do you, is there a lot of, with simulators now?
And what are your thoughts of that and how that's all transforming the sport?
Whether it's safe as fast or racing, I mean, simulators are a part of the industry
for sure. We have one in our office here.
You know, it's, it's, it's great in many aspects.
And obviously they use it in all, all different arenas and racing, even for
the, the grassroots guys, you know, go into different tracks, tracks you've never
been to. You, you basically can learn the track before you get there.
Simulators, it's a huge, huge plus.
Do you see a correlation between somebody who's fast on a simulator?
I mean, is there people that are really good on a simulator that don't do so well
on the track?
You know what, that's from what I've seen, it's hard to say.
I think the young kids that are really good on SIM are, are seen to be very
quick in the cars. Obviously, real life doesn't, you know, substitute, you can't
substitute that with a simulator and, and being able to do setups and talk with
the engineers and get proper feedback and adjust the handling.
I mean, certain things you have to have real life for, but definitely it's a,
it's a good start point and a good learning point for sure.
Well, and there's no fear in a simulator.
You don't have, there's no chance of getting hurt or worse with a simulator.
But I would imagine that, you know, they, I think the fear is always that
people will transfer that to, oh, I can't get hurt because I did it in my
simulator for, you know, six years or whatever.
And I don't think that that, obviously you have to teach people about safety,
which is as much a part of racing today as it maybe has ever been, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I think, you know, once you get in the seat and you get out on track,
you realize the potential consequences.
I don't, I don't think there's too much of coming off the SIM and thinking
they can just go flat or at VIR or something like that.
But, but yeah, it's definitely a good training ground and definitely necessary.
And, and as you see, you know, all of the pros, everybody's on a SIM at some point.
Yeah.
Whether they, whether they like it or agree with it or not, right?
Yeah, that, but it's interesting to see some of these older drivers
still competitive and, you know, whether it's Formula One with Fernando or Lewis
or any of these guys who are getting, you know, up in years, but can still be
fairly competitive, maybe nine tenths.
But being the fastest doesn't always mean you're going to win the race either, right?
Oh, for sure. Obviously, there's a lot of different factors.
I mean, being fast is one piece of the pie, you know, racecraft
and saving tires and understanding what the car is doing.
And there's so many different things that are involved in winning a race.
Sure. And, and the heat that these cars can put out nowadays, I guess,
even with the cool suits and all that, it's got to be, man, talk about a physical
conditioning situation.
For sure. You know, I think that's one of the things that the maybe the general
public probably doesn't understand how much heat and how much
physical effort it takes to drive these things.
You know, they're over 110 degrees and you got three layers of clothing
and you're sweating and you've got to hydrate.
And it's it's a lot more grueling than people think.
Yeah. And then you had the mental part of it in there in the competitive side of it.
And then, you know, trying to make everybody happy and, you know,
hitting your hitting your marks when you go into the pits.
I mean, watching those pit crews work at any level of the sport is fun to watch.
It's almost as much fun to watch as the racing.
Oh, sure. And you know what? I mean, it's it's said a lot.
But I mean, it's it's it's up to the team.
You know, you have to have behind you.
You can't succeed without them.
I mean, everything from the preparation to the pit stops to set ups.
It's it's all it's a very much a team sport.
And it's got to be frustrating when a 99 not that there's any 99 cent parts
on a race car probably today, but when a small part fails.
Yeah, you know, and that's one of the things like we as a team,
we stay on top of everything as a life as far as what they say it's going to last.
And like you said, I mean, you can if you don't replace something
that's on the verge of being at the end of its life, you can be caught out by a cheap part.
Sure. And how frustrating is that?
I mean, that's got to be everybody's doing their job.
Everybody's doing exactly what they're supposed to do.
And then something out of out of control at that juncture
causes you to not be able to finish the race.
Really frustrating, especially if you've had a great run and a good race, you know.
And in a 24 hour race, do you do you really sleep at all?
I mean, how I don't see how the hell you sleep.
I think the crew doesn't sleep.
You know, at least from from my time racing and doing Le Bonnet and Daytona
and all that stuff, you know, you have four drivers on average
and you do get a couple hours breaking between.
And nowadays you have physios, you have nutritionists.
We at Brumos, we used to have a hyperbaric chamber.
You know, for 45 minutes between stints, oxygen, eat your blood.
So, yeah, I mean, all that stuff is going on.
You get a little sleep, not much, though.
Yeah, you see those those the old guys in the old days on there, you know,
on a on a cinderblock wall is sound to sleep on it.
I mean, you know, nowadays a 24 hour being up for 24 hours is not the case.
You really have for 48. Right. Right.
Yeah, I never thought about that.
But that's that's absolutely true, because you got to you sleep the night
before, right, but the day before early, you know, and all of this.
I mean, you got jet lag to factor in when you're driving.
You got, you know, lifestyle.
You got what if you get a little bit of a cold?
I mean, there's so many things that, you know, how do you control all that environment?
You almost want to put somebody in a, you know, a completely sealed environment.
Yeah, no, there's a lot of factors you have to deal with, you know,
that make it really tough for sure.
And and and, of course, your your background, obviously, you have some
family background in racing as well, too, that I didn't find out till just recently
that your dad was involved in racing in the late 60s, early 70s and pretty interesting.
Peter Law was his name fabricator and mechanic for Mark
Donahue's can am cars, I guess, or racing cars.
And so, yeah, it's been it's it's been in my family since day one for me.
Like you said, my dad worked for Roger Penske, hired him and brought him over.
My dad's from Australia, brought him over from Australia.
And he worked on the the can am cars for Mark Donahue is mechanic and crazy story.
If you got a minute, absolutely.
My dad worked for Mark Donahue and Roger Penske.
My family, my mom and dad were traveling.
I was born as they were on the road.
They came to the US and I was born.
They didn't have a house.
So I lived at the Donahue home.
Just for a few months with Donahue, Mark's son, fast forward into the mid 90s.
David and I, I didn't really know him.
We had met in a series called Super Touring, right?
He and I together.
And then fast forward a couple more years.
And, you know, I became teammates at Brumos Porsche and the prototypes that ran
together as teammates for like eight or nine years.
That crazy small world.
And when I first met David, I said, Hey, did you know my father used to work for
your dad and we're racing against each other?
And he thought I was crazy.
Went and asked mom and mama confirmed it, right?
Isn't that crazy though?
And you guys want, and he was one of your teammates at the 24 hour Daytona race.
I won the 24 hour.
We had Buddy Rice with us and Antonio Garcia who drives for Corvette.
So it was us four.
How cool is that?
Did you, did you, I mean, obviously at the time when you're a young kid,
you don't know anything about it.
I mean, you're a baby at the time, but did you get a chance to ever visit with
Mark Donahue or did your dad ever have great stories about Donahue?
That's got stories.
And we've got lots of photos.
We've got pictures from that era, you know, so it's really cool.
Did you all live up here, closely here in Pennsylvania?
Were you, did you move to this area or?
Until my parents actually got a home and I moved out to California.
I lived out there through all of my years growing up and then moved to Arizona up in
here ever since.
I imagine that I don't care how good a race car your driver you are.
If you were to get into any version of a 917 K&M car today, it would be a handful.
It would be a handful.
I've been there with some of the, some of the collectors that have them and seen them
on track.
And yeah, I mean, that was 1000 horsepower and oh, crazy.
And, and yeah, and the technology with the brakes weren't as good.
I mean, everything was, you know, way behind of the engine.
It took a while for everything else to catch up to the power.
Yeah.
Oh, for sure.
No, it's those, that was when men were men.
Yeah.
Driving.
So how did, how did Pinsky find your dad in Australia?
Was he doing, working on race cars over there?
How did that happen?
The racing industry there and, and I don't, you know, I don't know if he applied for a job
or they were looking for somebody, but, or somebody, I think somebody gave a recommendation
for my father to come over and run with him here.
And so, yeah, so once he got hired, he spent a couple of years, you know, doing the K&M
cars, they got great pictures of the old Lola's and the Camaros and all that stuff.
Yeah.
Those Camaros, that's an Oko blue Camaro was really a cool car.
That was one that I got.
That got my attention when I was a kid and seeing that.
And then of course, you know, Sebring, another great track that you've raced at.
Now is you're still racing at Sebring, right?
You'll race at Sebring this year.
This year we'll run there in the SRO series, but yeah, I still go to Sebring all the time.
Yeah.
It's got a really, people just, they're die-hard Sebring guys.
They just love Sebring.
You know what?
I love Sebring too.
It's a big track.
It's technical.
It's got its own character with all the bumps.
You know, there's no elevation, but it's a lot of fun to drive.
I love that.
And basically still in the middle of nowhere, right?
Yes, it is.
And of course, you race Circuit of the Americas.
That first turn at Circuit of the Americas, that's daunting, seeming to me, almost as
bad as a corkscrew.
I mean, it seems like that is just, you're taking a 500 foot wide something into a,
it seems like it's 20 feet wide.
It definitely creates potential for big issues on the first turn, getting in there after the
brake zone, you know?
I mean, funnels down.
Yeah.
What, I mean, your mindset on a, on a, you know, the opening lap, just, you know,
when you take off from the start, I mean, is it, is it protection?
Is it trying to be, you know, to not get caught up in something?
Is that your mindset more than trying to be in the lead or what, how does that work?
What type of racing you're doing?
If you're looking at like sprint short races, the mindset is you've got to get to the front
and take advantage of the tires when they're good.
If you're looking at a, like a Daytona 24 hour, you know what?
It's, it doesn't make any sense to push the limit.
You don't race until the next morning.
The next morning.
I love that.
Yeah.
I mean, how many miles, I mean, the amount of miles that you do at a 24 hour race, that's,
that, I mean, what is the trick?
I think it's like 750 laps at three miles per lap.
250 miles or something crazy.
It's just more than that.
Yeah.
Cause that's, my math is way off 24 times that.
So, but, you know, it's, it's 24 hour racing is, is amazing that it's still, it's so popular,
even though it's kind of a hard spectator sport, most people will watch it for 24 hours and are,
you know, straight, but it still gets great ratings and people still love it.
And it's still important.
Oh, it's still important.
And it, you know, to me, it's a lot different than like we were talking about back in the
day in the 60s where they would take a break and they'd lay on the pit lane wall and probably
sit there for an hour.
Now, I mean, the cars are so robust and so strong.
You can, you are doing qualifying lap times for 24 hours.
Wow.
And, and are you, even to this day, are you still amazed at the capabilities of some of
these cars, the braking and the acceleration?
Phenomenal, yeah.
It's amazing the, the level of braking and the level of grip and the speeds because of
the arrow that you can carry through the corners.
It's impressive.
Yeah.
And it's hard to capture that on television when you're watching it.
It's hard to capture the, the, the feel of that speed, even with the in-car camera stuff
and all that, to, to watch a Formula 1 car go from, you know, this turn to this turn,
or a drag racer go from zero to a thousand feet or an Indy car or a Porsche or whatever.
It's hard to convey that speed unless you're, when you're not there.
Yeah, for sure.
And, and, and even as a racer, you know, driving prototypes or GT cars,
when you go watch something like an F1 car and how deeply drive it into the corner,
it's, it's, but yeah, being on site in person makes a big difference.
And the F1 cars, it's always amazing to me that these are the,
supposedly the top 20 guys in the 22 now in the world.
And there's still a guy who'll outbreak you.
There's still, yeah, it's pretty amazing.
Well, this has been one of my favorite last question to ask everybody though,
is what is your daily driver?
Great question.
Now my daily driver, I actually have a Ford Raptor pickup truck.
Oh, nice.
I haven't driven one of those, but I hear they are a blast to drive.
So kind of my, I enjoy being in Arizona.
I enjoy a lot of off-roading and, and there's a lot of places to go.
So it's, it's kind of a getaway for me from the, from the track,
because I get to drive a bunch of our cars all the time still on the racetrack.
But I mean, I do mountain bike and the truck is just practical.
I like the truck.
Yeah, it's that.
We're through the street cars and all that when I drove for Brumos and.
I think we had, I don't remember if it was, if, which one if it was David,
it wasn't David Holmes, it was Brian, maybe Brian Redmond.
I think one of drives a Hyundai, like a Sonata.
And I'm still like flooring it and bouncing over jumps.
And are you, are you into collecting cars and the Bear Jackson thing and all that,
or do you, do you don't have time for any of that?
See, I don't have time for anything.
Bear Jackson, it's a great event.
And obviously it's here right there.
A couple of weeks here, but I don't, I don't really collect cars.
I've got, we've got 30 race cars in the shop right now.
I get to see all the cool stuff I want, you know.
Yeah, well, that's kind of the same with us here.
We have a thousand cars and we, you know, we need to exercise them on a regular basis.
So you, it's crazy to own anything because you can just go pick.
I'll take that one today and I'll take that one.
And that one needs to be driven a little.
Exactly.
Well, Darren, it's such a pleasure having you on the show today.
We really appreciate it.
And hopefully we'll run into you at one of these races down the road.
I guess your frequent flyer miles are pretty steep.
Yeah, I'm like, I get upgraded.
It's good.
That's the one, you know, I'm sick of all the travel, but that's the one benefit.
Exactly.
Yeah.
The more you fly, the better it is, believe it or not.
So Darren Law, everybody, thanks again for being on the show, Darren.
And we'll be back with the Classic Auto Mall show in just a couple of minutes.
The Classic Auto Mall has more than 1,000 vehicles for consignment in our huge eight
acre climate controlled showroom.
It's a real indoor mall.
If you'd like to know all the advantages of buying and selling a car through consignment,
the information is available on our website.
Or you can talk to a classic car specialist who can answer all your questions.
It's easy, safe, convenient, and it doesn't matter where you are, we sell worldwide.
See our huge selection of classic and collectible vehicles at classicautomall.com.
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If you have questions or comments, write podcast at classicautomall.com.
And we're back with the Classic Auto Mall show from the Classic Auto Mall Studio in
Morgantown, Pennsylvania on a lovely, lovely, gorgeous day.
I'm going to California.
Yeah.
Yeah, lucky you.
You get a lot of limitations.
You're going out to Arizona, apparently, too.
We're going to go see.
But Apex Motor Club.
Isn't that funny that Flying Lizard Motorsports, they have,
the guy won't tell you where the name came from.
You know what?
It's so odd because their logo is actually like,
a snake.
The whole thing's weird.
And there is a flying lizard, but I mean, that does it.
There is a flying.
Yeah, there is.
But it's not like the fastest, it's not like a fastest animal on the planet.
Or is it referring to dinosaurs or pterodactyls, which were flying lizards?
Could be.
Who knows?
Who knows?
But it's more snake.
20 years this guy's been involved with it and he's still,
that's got to drive him crazy with those things at night.
It's like, damn it, what is this?
Where did this come from?
It's a mystique.
But that's kind of cool, too.
Yeah.
It's a cool name and people love it.
It's got, they have a whole merch shop.
Yeah, yeah.
You know their merch sales are huge on this thing.
So you might ask, where are we sold cars this week?
I would ask.
Oh, come on.
Let's see.
Oh, it's actually three weeks since we.
Holy mackerel.
Oh, we'll catch you tomorrow, folks.
Let me, when Steve arrives with his Forza.
Anyway, how about Danville, Pennsylvania?
Harpersville, Alabama, Hamburg, Pennsylvania,
Media, Pennsylvania, Powell, Ohio,
Neumannstown, Pennsylvania, Howell, New Jersey,
Hamburg, Pennsylvania, Babylon, New York,
Port Deposit, Maryland, Punta Gorda, Florida,
Mannheim, Pennsylvania, Philadelphia,
Pennsylvania, Columbus, Georgia, Elkton,
Maryland, Sangerville, Maine, Punta Gorda,
Florida again, Tintin Falls, New Jersey,
Greensboro, North Carolina, Clarksboro,
New Jersey, Winchester, Indiana, Santa Fe,
New Mexico, West Norerton, Pennsylvania,
Argentina.
Wow.
That doesn't sound like anywhere.
Honeybrook, Pennsylvania, Altoona, Pennsylvania,
North Fort Myers, Florida, Claymont, Delaware,
Norfolk, Virginia, Winburb, Pennsylvania,
Naples, Florida, Kennelin, New Jersey,
Take a breath.
Whitehall, Pennsylvania, Traveller's Rest,
South Carolina, Davidsonville, Maryland,
Clinton, Maryland, Cincinnati, Ohio.
The Punta Gorda, same person or two different people?
Two different people.
None of your business.
Okay.
Yeah, two different people, which is funny.
It's funny how that works every once in a while.
You'll have that where an oddball name just comes up
twice and you're like, oh, that's the same guy.
It would be interesting if it was a friend of a friend
or just two totally random people.
And they'll pass each other someday
because Punta Gorda didn't have a place
and they wanted to know it.
Did you get that car?
Yeah, oh.
Classic automobile.
Oh, yeah, yeah, oh cool.
So, how about some new arrivals
that we didn't get to talk about last year?
How about some?
Are you prepared?
I'm ready, let's go.
All right, good to know.
So, how about the two-thor-
Yes, I love that one.
That was a great car.
It's my favorite car.
All time.
2014 Volkswagen Beetle convertible.
Denim, blue and beige.
This is a great car for your son or daughter.
Somebody just going back and forth to school.
It's practical on the fuel.
It's safe.
It's got a good stereo.
It's got airbags.
It's got all the stuff you need.
And it still looks cool.
Daughter.
Two-owner.
Daughter, I'd go daughter.
Daughter, garage cap.
92,000 actual miles, which is not many for a Volkswagen.
Modern car, not a problem at all.
2.5-liter double overhead cam.
I can't talk today.
1.5-liter inline five-cylinder, 2.5-liter.
Great retro style, well maintained, I quit.
I think your body's here, but your mind is in California.
That seems to be the problem.
Well, it seems to be the problem.
As it is with most of us.
Yeah.
I tell you, it's a six-hour flight.
That's not from here.
That's long.
That's not from here.
You're going to be second-first class drinking cocktails.
Wait a minute.
It's not 4.5 coming back.
Coming back is 4.5.
No, it's not.
It's still the same amount of flow.
Oh, yeah, there's a nice-looking car just pulling up.
How about next on the list is the 1983 Datsun 280 ZX turbo
coupe, Fox Silver Metallic and Cadet Blue Metallic over gray.
Beautiful car.
Turbocharged 2.8-liter single overhead cam inline six,
three-speed automatic transmission, T-tops.
Everybody knows what a T-top is.
Sure.
Right, do they?
I hope so.
We hope so.
T-top is the room.
If you don't podcast the classic automobile.
Yeah, removable hatches that are above your head,
and it's almost like a sunroof slash convertible.
Yeah, and I just saw an article on somebody did a little side podcast on
what happened to the T-top and why not today.
Maybe we can make a feature.
Maybe we can feature that.
You know, they're impractical.
People like to not have to store something.
It's like a hard top for a Mercedes or a hard top for a Thunderbird.
What do you store them?
And how do you get them off?
With my Firebird, I finally figured out that without having to put them
in the bag and everything, if you put one one way and one the other way,
they didn't scratch and they stayed together.
And you could put them just, yeah, because that's the problem.
And people don't want that hassle to deal with.
And that's the problem with T-tops because they look cool.
Yeah.
They're very cool looking.
There was a great design and a great marketing thing that they did.
That did did very, very well.
So another new arrival is the 1962 Ford Thunderbird hard top.
Lime green over white.
This thing is wild looking.
I mean, this is talking about flying lizard.
Pure show car.
It is a pure show car.
It's got 390 cubic in three two barrel V8,
one of a kind custom cruzomatic automatic transmission.
So power brakes, AC car, show stopper.
Yeah.
And this thing is wild.
It is crazy wild.
And you know, if you're a person that buys a car like this,
I don't think you're bashful.
I don't think you're shy.
I don't think you're a, if you, if you haven't seen it,
go to our website, classicautomall.com and you can see it and it's a crazy car.
Another new arrival is the 1941 Buick Series 40 business coupé red over gray.
This is a cool looking car.
Love it.
65,000 actual miles, great driver.
It's got the fireball inline eight, which is interesting.
It's just all, you know, in a, in a straight line.
There wasn't a very efficient way to do an engine because it had to be twice as long
as a, as a V8.
Think about it because you got all.
Of course.
Yeah.
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
There you go.
There you go.
Oh, smart like that.
Math major.
Yeah.
Pretty nicely preserved example as well to three speed manual transmission on the tree.
If you don't know how to drive a three on the tree,
it's just the same as on the floor.
It's just, it just at a different angle.
It's still like the same kind of pattern.
Right.
We used to have a van, the eco, the eco Ford eco van.
That we took down.
Count of line.
Count of line.
Yeah.
We took down to the mall and that's how I learned how to drive a three on the tree.
It's like, Steve, take this, take this van.
And you're never going to say, oh, I don't know how to drive.
Right.
You're just going to say, oh, okay, I'll take care of that.
I'm no dummy.
I'm no dummy.
Oh, why?
Fake it till you make it.
220, 221, whatever it takes.
Next on the list is the 1972 Chevrolet K5 Blazer,
hugger, orange, over black, super clean, 350 cubic inch, four-wheel, crate, V8,
turbo hydromatic, 350, three-speed automatic transmission.
It's got both the heart and the soft top.
That one's right out here.
That's sharp.
Sharp looking.
How it's still here is beyond me.
It won't be long.
I've given up on trying to predict what's the next heart sale because I'm wrong.
Every single.
These are the hottest thing in the market right now when you see them at the auctions.
And I get it.
There are some cars that we had and then the reason that they have sold.
Hold the presses.
They're overpriced.
And I get that because some people sometimes pay too much for their car.
Sometimes they buy it at a different time in the market when it was more expensive and now
they're not as expensive.
Or sometimes they just had a cocktail and a bear raising their hand and whoops, I paid too much.
Or their best friend told them, oh, no, that's worth lots of money.
You'll make a fortune on that.
And then of course you don't.
And it's, you know, we have to be the bearer of bad news sometimes.
But if you see a car that you like, make a reasonable offer.
You know, listen, I got one the other day.
Got offered $5 on a $50,000 car.
I'm like, was this a typo?
Right, right.
I mean.
Where's the zeros?
But don't be afraid to make an offer.
You're not going to hurt our feelings.
The worst thing that we can tell you is no.
And maybe something's changed the motivation with the seller.
Maybe that something's happened in their life that they really need to sell the car.
And they wanted 50, but they take 46.
Yeah, at our next auction we will probably have some absolute vehicles.
And you can offer $5 and maybe buy it.
Exactly.
You won't be the last hand to be raised, but that's okay.
And last but not least is the 1972 Chevrolet Monte Carlo.
These are quite popular.
They are.
Oasis green over black, frame off restored.
Numbers matching L65, 350 cubic inch V8.
That's a lot of mouth full of insurance.
Numbers matching turbo hydrometric 350,
three speed automatic transmission with a 12 boat 3.31 axle.
There you go.
Luxury muscle cruiser.
So they are personal luxury cruiser.
And we didn't get to it last week and just want to say a shout out to our former employee,
Mike Chubb, who no longer with us.
And I don't mean to be a bummer here, but he was our photographer and did a great job
and came in every day and never took a sick day and then got sick.
So God bless his family and everybody.
And also Greg Biffle and his family.
Yeah, and Greg Biffle.
Crack a crash over the holidays.
Horrible plane crash.
It was just so they were going on a family vacation to the Bahamas.
So, but rest in peace, Mike Chubb and Greg Biffle.
And despite everything, we wish everybody a happy new year.
And did you have a great new year?
Yeah, it was pretty good.
Yeah, we had quite like I was sleeping by nine o'clock.
We stayed up till midnight.
I fell asleep at 11 45.
I usually do, but somehow some way we stayed up.
We had a we had a celebratory shot to do because we'd passed over the 10,000.
Right.
We're 160.
Yeah, almost 170,000 followers.
Yeah, 168,000.
My sister and her husband have a tradition of eating a herring.
Oh, yum.
See if you give me an invite next year, J.R.
Yeah, we we made it till midnight.
We do a sell, but every 10,000 new subscribers, Garrett and Kathy and I do a shot of Johnny
Walker Blue.
It's the expensive stuff.
That's why we're going to change it to 25,000 because it's getting too expensive.
Getting too drunk.
Yeah, it's like one shot of that.
Yeah.
Man, that'll knock you to the floor, especially when you're used to drinking, you know,
cheap boxed red wine.
We'll see you next time on The Classic Automall Show.
And let me be the last to wish you a happy new year.
And thanks for stopping by.
The Classic Automall Show with their host, Stuart Howden, executive producer, Steve Sefair,
produced and engineered by yours truly, J.R.
Russ, video editor, Randy Lambi.
Available on ClassicAutomall.com, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.
Music, courtesy of the Pat Traverse Band, for tour dates, contact and stuff,
visit PatTraverse.com.
Produced by CarSmart Media, copyright all rights reserved.
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About this episode
Stewart Howden welcomes professional race car driver Darren Law to discuss his extensive career in motorsports. From his beginnings in go-karting to managing Flying Lizard Motorsports, Darren shares insights about racing dynamics, the evolution of driver fitness, and the importance of teamwork in racing. They also delve into the challenges of sponsorship in the sport and the role of simulators in driver training. With anecdotes about famous tracks and his experiences at prestigious races like Daytona, this episode offers a fascinating look into the world of competitive racing.
Original notes
CAM Show #226 airdate 01-07-26 Stewart welcomes Darren Law, Race driver and Owner of #FlyingLizardMotorsports. On #Zoom from #Phoenix, Darren recants his diverse career driving in #England for #EldenRacing, #FormulaRenault, #HartongMotorsports #BMW, #RolexSportsCarSeries, #NASCARraftsmanTruckSeries and #BrumosPorscheTeam plus racing at #LeMans #Daytona #Sebring #Watkins Glen and more. Other highlights include his involvement with the #SafeisFast program from the #RRDC. Stewart and Steve also reveal some exciting new consignments and some exotic places where Classics have found new homes. #PenskeRacing #IMSA
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CONTENT NOTE: Contests, Prizes, Offers, Vehicles & other items may no longer be available or offered after each show's original broadcast or posting date.
Recorded in our Showcase Studio just inside the entrance of the Classic Auto Mall in Morgantown, PA, Host Stewart Howden, Classic Auto Mall President and Classic Car Specialist Steve Saffier talk about this unique and amazing place often with amazing guests.
YES...Classic Auto Mall is a REAL former shopping mall that covers almost EIGHT football fields with an average of nearly ONE THOUSAND classic vehicles under one, climate controlled roof and they're all FOR SALE!
Be sure to LIKE and SUBSCRIBE to be informed of new episodes and SEE them on the Classic Auto Mall YouTube Channel. We also invite you to VISIT US IN PERSON at Classic Auto Mall, one hour west of Philadelphia at PA Turnpike Exit #298, VISIT us online at ClassicAutoMall.com or talk to real, live people about visiting, buying or selling your classic on consignment at 888-227-0914.
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Classic Auto Mall SHOW
Stewart Howden
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45:09