In Wheel Time Podcast: Your Go-To Automotive Talk Show Jan 11, 2024

Decoding Car Reliability: Insights from Consumer Reports with Mike Quincy. The Ford Bronco Heritage is here!

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Welcome to another In-Wheel Time podcast, a 30 minute mini version of the In-Wheel Time car show that airs live every Saturday morning 8 to 11am central.

Like Elvis' Hawaiian Concert, it's his birthday.

It's the worldwide broadcast of the In-Wheel Time car talk show.

Did you like the way I melded that in?

there.

It's a head.

We're going to talk amongst ourselves and we're also going to talk with Mike Quincy, consumer Reports, and his blue suede shoes I don't know if the mic's got blue suede shoes, but we're going to find out.

And we're going to talk about the reliability study that Consumer Reports has done.

Did the interest?

Oh boy, it is going to be interesting.

I took a sneak peek.

It's a good.

It's a good, it's a good, it's a good.

So we're going to make some manufacturers probably angry at us.

I know that Home of beer.

Home of beer.

Watch this.

So we thank you for joining us today.

Good morning to you and howdy, along with Mike out of this world, mars King Conrad DeLong.

We always need more.

Jeff Zekin.

I'm Don Armstrong, glad that you could join us on a beautiful Saturday morning here in the Houston Texas area.

It's a bit chilly, but the sun is out and the beautiful day it's going to be a beautiful neighborhood.

Yep, it truly is.

It's a great sweater.

Mike Quincy is here with us from Consumer Reports.

Mike, good morning.

Hey guys, how's it going today?

Well, very well, thank you, and thank you for joining us.

I love, love, love.

Consumer Reports most reliable or unreliable cars of the current model year, and so I'm going to let you kind of control how we go about this.

First of all, let's let's talk about the parameters that you guys use.

Do you test every single car, or how do you come up with the reliability survey?

Well, consumer Reports testing and our reliability information are really kind of separate.

We get our reliability data from Consumer Reports members and every every year we we put out a survey to our members.

We basically asked them in the last 12 months, tell us about any problems that you had and with your car, whether it's something minor like squeaks and rattles or paint and trim, or something major like the powertrain or electronic issues and they tell us about their experiences owning their cars.

We take this data and we give it to our super smart statisticians who come up with our reliability predictions for new model years and for this year's survey, we have predictions for 2024 models that are based on the reliability of the last three years.

We have data on more than 330,000 miles and I love your enthusiasm for our reliability report, because I have to say that not everybody is excited.

No, I can only imagine that that you know most people, I think, would be pretty honest in their opinion as they report to Consumer Reports about their car.

Now, let's, let's, let's clarify here that these are new cars.

Correct.

Okay, I mean we have.

We have tons of data on on used cars because we we have survey information for for models from the 2000 model year up to 2023.

So it actually in some ways, it's even better if you're in the market for used car, because we go way, way back.

But you know, right now we're just talking about about new car predictions in terms of reliability Gotcha and how many people participated in this?

your readers.

We have.

I think last count is several million I.

I actually don't have that number right in front of you, right?

now, that's okay.

We know that, that 330,000 vehicles were included in the survey, making it one of the largest of its kind.

But but I don't know the latest subscriber count for Consumer Reports.

But it's definitely in the millions and, like everyone in publishing, it's certainly not as robust as it used to be.

And what kind of questions are asked of these people that participate?

Well, we asked them about you know, problems with their cars.

We were talking about problem areas like engine, electric motors, transmissions, every component that can affect the livability of a car, and and they, they, they.

We look at the data and we look at sample sizes and when you have a good, a goodly number of people saying the same thing about the same component, about the same car, that gives you an idea that it is statistically relevant.

That's easy for me to say, to come up with recommendations.

Either this car is reliable or we predict it will not be reliable.

But all this data is purely what is input by your members talking about their three-year-old cars.

Up to three-year-old cars.

Correct.

Or their one-year-old car, their two-year-old car.

I mean, you know, we, we.

There's other surveys out there that that that talk about initial quality.

You know, problems gone wrong in the first 30 days or 60 days.

We usually think surveys like that are pretty ridiculous.

It's a brand new car.

Nothing should be going wrong in the first 30 days, for goodness sake.

So initial quality doesn't mean as much to us at Consumer Reports as how is it holding up over one year, two year, three years and beyond, but you don't get any participation from the manufacturers in this, as far as any data from them about percentage of component failures of their fleet.

No, the the manufacturers do not weigh in and Consumer Reports surveys.

But when we meet with manufacturers and we talk to them about our survey results, 98% of the time 99% of the time maybe they know exactly what we're talking about.

They see their warranty claims.

They know every weaknesses of of their cars and their components, and so they're they're generally not really surprised by just about anything that we publish.

Right Now, all of these cars.

They're not just gasoline engines, they're also hybrids and I understand you looked at EVs as well.

Well, as EVs are becoming more popular and, dare I say, almost mainstream.

We did get a lot of survey information on electric vehicles as well as plug-in hybrids, and one of the more interesting anecdotes of our survey results is that we found that EVs have 79% more problems than models with internal combustion engines.

Wow, and you think well, that's crazy because a lot of people are buying EVs these days.

But then we looked a little deeper on the other electrification of models and that's plug-in hybrids.

They have 146% more problems.

So, but I mean, in some ways the logical way of thinking about it is most manufacturers are new to the EV world, they're new to the plug-in electric world, and so they haven't worked out all the bugs yet.

The one kind of positive spot among EVs is Tesla, but they've been at it longer, so it kind of goes locked up here.

So how do you filter out and having been a field engineer for General Motors, I know what you're talking about about they know what's going on how do you filter out the emotion of your members?

And I say the emotion of your member.

I brought my car in to get it worked on and the dealer screwed it up and they worked on it three or four times and I just wanted to hammer him.

So I hammered him in a survey and that's what I'm talking about, about the emotion of them.

They found an opportunity to get somebody back by filling out a survey on them.

How do you filter out that emotional response?

Well, that's how it has to be statistically relevant, statistically provable.

If we have, let's say, 100 people own a Honda Accord and 99 of them are saying it's been drop dead, reliable, so it's not a problem, we have one person that says, oh, it was terrible, it broke in the first week.

You learn to filter out the anomalies, but when you see a pattern, then that is as Consumer Reports, lawyers say.

It is defensible.

Now, as far as brands are concerned, that's fairly straightforward.

Do you get down, or write down to the actual cars that the brands make?

Oh, absolutely yeah, we look at reliability from a brand level as well as a model level, and sometimes even within the models, there are trim lines that have certain options that will prove to be more problematic than others.

So that again helps us to further a slice and dice the information to help people make a good buying decision.

But, yeah, the brand information.

There's not a lot of surprises this year in terms of who is dominating for the most reliable models, and they're mostly coming from Asia.

We're talking about Lexus, toyota, honda, subaru, mazda and Kia having the more reliable models.

But one thing that's interesting is the Germans made a pretty good show this year with Mini, cooper, porsche and BMW also making the top 10.

And how many years has Consumer Reports been doing this specific report?

We have been doing automotive surveys, I believe for about 60-plus years, but Consumer Reports as an organization has been in business since 1936.

And how do you, having done this for so long, do you see kind of repeat offenses?

You know that one brand has substantially more transmission issues than another, another one has more suspension issues, and how do the manufacturers explain that over time?

Well, that's a great question.

We definitely saw some patterns of failure for components.

For example, there is some Nissan CVTs that are problematic, which, yeah, I know a lot of people have heard about that.

There was a time when Subaru head gasket issues were also a consistent problem.

But it isn't so much that a manufacturer is stuck with a bad legacy.

For example, you look at Kia being in the top 10 for most reliable brands.

There certainly was a time when Kia was even close to the top 10, maybe not even midway through the whole brands, and they have worked hard to improve their reliability and you know, when you look at BMW, I think they've also looked at how they're doing things and improved a lot also.

So but yeah, there's some manufacturers like Chrysler, mercedes-benz, volkswagen.

Every year they seem to be terrible and you almost wonder what is going on within the confines of those offices.

You know why can they seem not to figure out that the key is to good reliability?

What is there anything in the survey I use survey.

Well, it shows up here as 30 brands in all, chrysler being at the very bottom of the list and Lexus being at the very top of the list.

Is there anything in between there that kind of surprised?

You kind of took you back and going wait, what's going on here?

Well, I think when you're, you know, when you're sort of rooting for the home team, maybe you want Detroit to do better.

I think Ford is kind of an interesting cross section because there are some models of the Ford lineup, like the Maverick and the Edge, that are proven to be pretty reliable, but on the other hand they've also had some real stinkers.

In the last survey the Ford F-150 Lightning All-Electric Pickup has been abysmal.

The Ford F-150 Hybrid Pickup Truck, which is a great truck I love this truck so much is also turned out to be super unreliable.

So you sometimes you can look at reliability from a brand level and you say, well, I don't know which Subaru I want, but I know most of them are pretty reliable.

Or you get down to the model level and I guess in today's consumer it isn't so much just to be loyal to one brand.

You say, well, my father brought Chevrolet, my uncle brought Chevrolet, so I'm gonna buy Chevrolet.

I don't think it's that easy and I don't think that's a good use of people's money.

And then again, how do you manage the recalls that are issued?

When you look at some of these manufacturers have recalled every car they've sold for six or seven years, and how does that impact on the reliability scores that you guys are ranking?

Recalls are actually not a part of Consumer Reports' reliability, because most recalls are a one-time event, in other words, the manufacturer's saying we've got a problem, you bring it to us, we're gonna fix it.

It's not gonna cost you any money and usually it's done so.

That in and of itself is not a factor to make something unreliable.

You think about how many millions of cars were affected by the Takata airbag recall.

Yeah, this is like a global thing.

It doesn't mean that every car that has one of those defective airbags is a completely unreliable car.

But you fix the airbag and you really don't have any issues.

Okay.

Is there anything in the bottom half of the list that is consistently at the bottom half of the list a year after year?

Pretty much Jeep.

Jeep.

Which is too bad.

I mean it was incredible.

Stalentus redesigned the Grand Cherokee.

It actually did really well in our testing and so it's too bad that it's turning out to be really unreliable.

The Grand Cherokee, the Grand Cherokee L, the Wrangler are all coming pretty low in Consumer Reports Reliability surveys, and what's interesting is that some of these Jeep models fly in contrast to Consumer Reports owner satisfaction surveys.

I mean people that buy a Jeep Wrangler love them, but they're also being honest with how unreliable they are.

So I tip my hat to the Consumer Reports members that are telling us all about their model.

Yes, I really like it, but no, it really is a pain in the neck.

So could their use that's an off-road vehicle, could then taking it off-road impact that I mean?

Is there any accountability or allowance for that?

That's a good question, mike.

I don't think that's.

It is like I abused the vehicle off-road and it broke, so it's unreliable.

I don't think really that's a factor.

I mean, when you look at some of the Wrangler's problems, it might be electronic issues that really have nothing to do with off-road hardware per se, but I think it's a fair question.

In other words, how is this car driven?

And, for example, when you think about how the owners of most minivans they're probably suburban parents that aren't abusing their car, and so there are some minivans that are really super reliable because they're not abused the same thing you could be saying about sports cars.

Maybe people drove the wheels off it and they said, well, it's not reliable because it broke, because I broke it.

So whether it is the owner's fault or inherent in the way that the vehicle was designed or manufactured, that's usually what our statisticians can sniff out.

And within your survey componentry, have you noticed that there's a higher or a lower level of automated safety devices that are ticking that survey as far as problems with all the cameras and high-tech computers and stuff that are on the vehicles?

We're not seeing a wide amount of those kinds of failures unless they fall under general electronics.

Electronic failures are among the most cited trouble spot report surveys of examples of people that they're having problems, but I would have to dig into that a little deeper to get a proper answer for your question, because it might fall under electronics, but I'm not aware that these safety features are failing.

I am aware, though, that they cost a fair amount to replace.

So all the sensors, all the cameras, all the stuff that you're talking about, when you get into a simple fender bender in a parking lot, it can cost a whole lot of money to fix all that stuff.

Oh yeah, just for all the recalibration and everything Stuff you can't even see, Mike, let me ask you about Lexus.

They are consistently at the top of the list.

Not the top all the time, but right up there in the top five or so.

What is it about Lexus?

What are they doing so right that the others are always chasing?

I think there's so much legacy, with Toyota obviously starting the luxury brand Lexus in the late 80s, early 90s, and Toyota is consistently also a super reliable manufacturer.

I think what Toyota and Lexus do is they get a technology and they stick with it.

They have a 2.5

liter four cylinder engine that they put in a lot of models.

They have a hybrid system that they have been working on and perfecting for like 25 years, so they're not bringing in the latest tech.

They've been reluctant and rather slow actually to get into the whole EV area Because first of all I don't think they see it as being very profitable, but also it's not in their expertise.

So they're very slow to kind of embrace new technology and most likely they're going to test it out in their home market before they bring it to the United States.

The Prius was a thing in Japan before it came to the US and over time that model has become just an incredible legacy of amazing reliability for what is a very complicated car.

So Toyota gets their technology down and they generally stick with it.

Mike, where can our followers get more information on this study?

Is it consumerreportsorg?

Consumerreportsorg and if you're old school, we still sell magazines.

We have consumer reports, new and used car buying guides.

You can check them out in your supermarket.

If you can find a new stand, it's also there.

We do paper, but, yeah, certainly the trend is all digital all the time.

Well, we certainly appreciate you guys and we love talking to you.

And great survey, and this comes out once a year, does it not?

That is correct, and we have this new survey information right around December and we're also working on our April issue, which is the big car issue of Consumer Reports, which should debut sometime in February.

So that'll be another reason to come on in wheel time and talk it up.

Absolutely, I want to invite you.

Just let us know when that comes out and you're ready to talk.

We'll get you on.

Thanks so much, guys.

I really appreciate it.

Thank you, mike.

Quincy Consumer Reports in the Automotive Reliability Study.

And they do such a great job because they're not influenced by advertising.

You know they it's just pure data that they supply information on.

And.

I you know, I really appreciate it.

Yeah, I respect it too, all right Time.

Now for the events calendar here on in wheel time, and Conrad has events Coming up.

Well Houston cars and cocktails at Sawyer Park Ice House in the Woodlands.

Wait a minute, now that's a cruise in Is a January 14th.

The winter Conro swap meet and car corral.

February 16th through 18th at the Montgomery County Fairgrounds in the airport, off of airport road, stephanie Nichols 13th annual car and plane show and at the Georgetown airport Car and plane show.

I like it, I think it's a great idea.

February 24th at the Georgetown airport, the 11th annual Rouse Rockin rides at Guptam Stadium is.

March 2nd Guptam Stadium.

The CCA Honda Acura at the Conclave in the clean special event center is April 13th.

January 14th is Savage Sunday, exotic car show in the Heights.

So you know you want to go see some.

You edited that on the fly, didn't you?

Which your your your events calendar.

No, not at all you didn't.

Oh, because we started off as a cruise in and I'm just calling you up, I'm just jacking with you really.

And that, Well, you know you want.

Cruise ins is tomorrow.

Well, I know, but we're not there yet.

That's another feature that we have later on in the show.

Yes, sir, okay, thank you, I'll be back to you, John.

All right, Mr Mars got a chance to review the new Ford Bronco.

We're waiting to hear what you got to say, Mike.

I have to say right up front I got the most comments on this vehicle than any vehicle I've ever driven including the Hellcats and stuff.

I mean it.

Just people recognize this vehicle.

It is so well done with this heritage model.

Now this is the 2023 Ford Bronco.

It is the heritage edition.

This is the two door model.

It is a truck based SUV.

You can get seven different models of the Bronco.

This is a sixth generation of it.

It's part of it, but this version they've got two different levels of the heritage and it is a four passenger vehicle.

It is two door, just like you remember them and it is.

They've just done it extremely well to make it look the same, but it is obviously much bigger.

The one I had came with a race red, so it had the white removable top, had the white grill, the white 17 inch wheels on it and it just really well done, had LED headlamps up front that are automatic high beams.

The wheels are a 17 inch Oxford white aluminum wheel that's made to look like the old steel wheels.

Just really nice looking.

Now, when you get to the inside of this vehicle, again, this is a four passenger model.

They don't even try and make it a five.

We had the plaid cloth seats.

They're very supportive.

The front buckets are heated.

The split rear seats that fold are also folded in the plaid cloth.

We had the eight inch center stack in the front and it was you know, it's always nice to have a little bit bigger, but this one was very good.

And the dash on it.

We had the white dash all the way across.

It almost looks like it's plastic.

It's not, but that's part of that heritage.

Look that goes with it.

Now we also had the eight inch digital screen for the driver to have all the controls and all the information that the driver needs there, and locking glove box on it.

We had the grab handles.

One thing I wanted to note the grab handle coming in off the passenger side, because it is set up.

It is a lifted type vehicle.

It's up on the console close to the center stack.

It's a reach.

It's not up on the pillar where you would think it would be like in a lot of four vehicles.

So it's.

My wife found it a little inconvenient.

It worked, but it would have been so much easier and better if it had been up there on the pillar.

Now, up under the hood we had the 2.3

liter EcoBoost 300 horsepower, 325 pound feet of torque.

Now there is a V6 option that'll get you 330 horsepower.

Main thing about the V6 is the 415 pound feet of torque.

Now I drove this.

We were backed by a seven speed manual transmission.

I think it's got more than enough power to go any place you want A manual transmission.

It took first.

When I first got in it it was dark and I wasn't looking and I went down there and I pushed on the brake and hit the start button and it wouldn't start.

I realized it was a manual so I had to have the clutch, everything in.

So it was very unusual to get into one that's new from the factory.

So the EPA says you should be looking for 16 in the city, 18 on the highway, with combined about 17.

I happened to get across 301.5

miles, 19.2

miles.

Very good, not bad, not bad and.

I was very impressed with that and, like I say, it has more than enough power.

I don't really know why you would want that V6.

Did you rev it up to like 7,000 RPM?

before you shifted it.

Nah, nah, no point.

I mean, this is not what that vehicle's made for, but I wish there was some place around where we could do a little rock crawling or something.

The other thing we got is a little mud and a little sand.

And again, I don't know why you would want a V6 in this vehicle.

I think the inline four has got plenty of power.

Now, driving this vehicle out on the road, it's got a little bit of noise.

It's got a removable hard top on it, the doors are where you can take them all off, so there's a little more road noise.

But it's a little bit heavier and it's bigger, I think, than a lot of its competitors.

So it rides surprisingly well with those 17-inch, those big tall tires on it.

That part of that is because it's got an independent front suspension which helps with the steering and everything.

Now the pricing on it Now this is the heritage model that we had is based on a mid-trim level.

There is another one that's based on the upper top of the line model that will cost you another 20, 25 grand, but the base model for a Bronco, according to the press kit, because the Moneroni doesn't have any pricing on this vehicle pre-production type vehicle but from the press kit, 34, 245 is where you can start on a Bronco.

Now the one we're driving, the heritage model, starts at $44,305, which really surprised me for what I was driving.

The best I can tell, the heritage model is gonna start at about $49,000, trying to figure out what all was on it and what wasn't on it and put it in there.

So sub 50 is what I would think.

If you want the top of the line model, it's 66.5

, but that's based up there with the Raptor.

The only real competitor I thought was applicable was the Jeep Wrangler and I found a Sahara for 45, 9, 25.

So about in that same range of 49, 50000.

And I think if you're looking, you really need to go look at this particularly.

Like I say, if you like the old school Bronco.

I like it a lot.

This is definitely something to look at.

Well, I'll tell you that I you know Ford loaned me one of those.

It was a yellow with the white wheels and white top.

It was.

I loved it and I was very thankful that I got a chance to drive it from Chicago up to Wisconsin and back.

And it was, it was a great, and I've already reviewed that and I said the same thing that was great.

Now, mine didn't have.

The manual transmission was automatic, but whatever.

Yeah, I probably wouldn't go for the manual just because if I was rock crawling or something in the sand, you know, manual is a little bit tougher than the automatic.

But again, and surprisingly, most of the comments I got were from women.

I could hear it.

You know, when this down I'd be going by like left the grocery store.

Oh, look at that.

Bronco, you know, with a no they were saying isn't that, bronco Billy?

Hey, this program is available 24 seven on I heart radio.

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The end wheel time car talk show continues right after this quick break.

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That's it for this podcast episode of the In Wheel Time Car Show.

I'm Don Armstrong.

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About this episode

Mike Quincy from Consumer Reports joins the discussion to delve into the latest automotive reliability survey results, revealing insights on new car reliability based on extensive owner feedback. The conversation highlights trends in electric vehicles, with surprising data showing EVs and hybrids facing more issues than traditional combustion engines. The episode also features a review of the new Ford Bronco Heritage, showcasing its nostalgic design and performance, while comparing it to competitors like the Jeep Wrangler. The hosts share personal experiences and insights, making for an engaging and informative episode.

Dodge Challenger Ford Bronco Ford Edge Ford F-150 Ford Maverick Honda Accord Jeep Grand Cherokee Jeep Wrangler Toyota Prius

Original notes

Ready to unlock the secrets of your future ride's reliability?

Join us as we sit down with Consumer Reports' very own Mike Quincy to decode the latest findings on what makes a car truly dependable. This isn't about the dazzle of a fresh-off-the-lot shine; we're talking hardcore evidence from a growing list of owner participants sharing information on their vehicles. Whether you're curious about the resilience of hybrids and electrics or simply seeking a trustworthy commuter, you'll get the unvarnished truth on which models are going the distance. Discover why that new car smell doesn't always mean problem-free and which tech advancements could cost you down the road.

Ever wonder why some cars have cult followings despite poor report cards? We'll dig into the paradox of beloved Jeeps and the surprising non-influence of recalls on reliability rankings. Listen as Mike illuminates the cautious genius behind Lexus and Toyota's tech strategies that leave others in the rearview.

Plus, in our car review feature segment, get a peek at the retro-cool 2023 Ford Bronco Heritage Edition, complete with design tributes to its ancestors.

Fasten your seatbelts for a ride through the ins and outs of automotive endurance, where the true measure of a car's worth is revealed long after the last sales pitch.

Be sure to subscribe for more In Wheel Time Car Talk!

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