Decoding EV Range Claims, the Race Card and Drag Racing Movies!
In Wheel Time Podcast: Your Go-To Automotive Talk Show
Decoding EV Range Claims, the Race Card and Drag Racing Movies!
In Wheel Time Podcast: Your Go-To Automotive Talk Show · Aug 8, 2023
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Welcome to another In Wheel Time Podcast, a 30 minute mini version of the In Wheel Time Car Show that airs live every Saturday morning 8 to 11am.
Central Podcast Channel From the Sugar Shack World Headquarters.
It's the In Wheel Time Car Talk Show.
Just ahead, gabe Shenard I know that I've screwed that name up, but we're going to clarify it with him, because Mars was absolutely no help when I asked him earlier.
I sent you something.
I know you did.
It was not helpful.
Oh, gabe is with Consumer Reports.
We're going to talk about EV claimed ranges, how far your EV can go, what the manufacturer says, and what the?
Reality is Not unlike the way it used to be for the most part, with EPA mileage.
Epa mileage.
I'm really interested to hear what he has to say, because I never can make those numbers.
Well, he's going to tell us about it.
Conrad has the racing calendar and the car clinic, and later we'll discuss the stories making auto news headlines this week.
Stay with us for hour number two of the In Wheel Time Car Talk Show.
Howdy, along with Mike out of this world, mars King, conrad DeLong I'm Don Armstrong, glad you could join us today.
Our tire expert and partner in all of this, jeffrey Zeekin, is in the grand stage, a stage of Michigan.
Enjoying a family reunion A family reunion this week.
Hi Jeffy.
We know that Jeffy's watching, so here's that.
We miss you.
Come on back.
I know that Mars especially misses you All right From automotive news this week.
Three Tesla owners in California on Wednesday sued the automaker in a proposed class action that accuses the company of falsely advertising the estimated driving ranges of its electric vehicles.
Lawsuit in the US District Court for the Northern District of California cites a Reuters article published last week that reported Tesla had created a diversion team out in Nevada to cancel as many range related appointments as possible after becoming inundated with owner complaints.
The lawsuits three plaintiffs cite occasions when their Teslas did not achieve close to their advertised ranges and said they had complained to the company without success.
James Porter, a Petaluma, California based Model Y owner, said in the lawsuit that on one trip he lost approximately 182 miles of range, despite only driving 92 miles Yikes.
The complaint seeks class action status to represent all persons in California who purchased a new Tesla Model 3, Model S, Model Y and Model X vehicle.
It seeks unspecified damages.
In typical class action, performance is everybody in the class will get $1.75
.
The attorneys will make $200 million and Tesla walks away.
Scott.
Well, that's a side story that we're not going to get into right here, but joining us now from Consumer Reports Gabe.
How do you pronounce your last name please?
Gabe, are you there?
Can you hear us?
Can you see us?
We can see you, but we don't hear you.
So I have a feeling that he can hear us.
So we're going to get to him in just a minute.
Darn it.
Mars is wearing five hats today, and so what are you doing?
Pushing buttons?
What are you doing then?
Just trying to get a different Push, the one that says, but no one on this end.
So we're trying to get him on the air.
Yep, he can hear.
He knows he can't hear us, okay.
Well, as we wait for that, I can tell you that, for instance, I'm going to give you some examples here that was supplied by Consumer Reports the Ford Mustang Mach-E Okay, cool, cool looking vehicle, an SUV.
It's not a Mustang, but that's another story for another day.
They claim the official EPA range is 270 miles.
If the battery and the car is cold, it only gets 188 miles.
If it's a mild condition, it gets 250 miles and under warm condition it gets 275 miles.
Because the battery performance improves with temperature.
Yeah, no-transcript.
I unique, yes, you are, I am unique.
Official EPA range 256 cold, 183, mild, 245, warm, 254.
Tesla Model Y 326 is the claim for miles.
Official EPA range cold, 186, mild, 252, warm, 274.
So, even at the best of all of the other automakers, which it's all right in there, similar, well, I've been to Petaluma, it's never cold in Petaluma, 274 miles, but Tesla claims 326 Volkswagen ID for official EPA range of 240 cold, 170 mild, 224 warm, 256 so somebody's going to sue them over those variances
, which is what I find just insane.
You know, all of these people.
You know, again, the attorneys are gonna get rich and the people are gonna get nothing, it's it's.
It's a.
It's a battery.
It changes with the temperature.
It also changes with time.
I mean, can I sue somebody because the battery in my iPhone degrades over time?
No well, probably could, but no am I going to.
No, because I understand that a battery is going to degrade over time but and because of that, my usage is going to have an effect on the life cycle of the battery.
So if I'm driving it 60 miles an hour with the cruise control on, I'm gonna get better battery life than I'm driving like a wild man at 90 miles an hour, like Mars does yeah, well, this cell phone here, my Samsung Android.
Almost ashamed to say it now because I've been ridiculed by somebody that we all know you have an Android yes, hey, at least you got rid of the flip phone.
I've still got it.
It's in the house.
It's the backup, right the backup.
But yeah, the battery life is much shorter now.
It's six years old yeah, we just replaced Angela's phone because her battery life got below 80%.
No, they say that's when you trash it.
Because there's a health indicator in your in in an iPhone to look at the health of your battery.
I don't know, we'll have to ask our consumer reports.
Guy, is there a health indicator for battery in available in the instrumentation of the EV vehicles?
You know, can you look at what you're bad?
Not not what your battery life is or what your range is, but what the health of the battery is.
You know its ability to accept and retain a charge and and deliver that charge over a period of time.
You know.
The other thing is is that and I've read this.
I'm not an expert in battery cars, but I will tell you that from what I have heard and seen, is that everybody thinks that, oh well, the car is perfect.
Not all battery packs are perfect, right, right, right.
And there are failures in battery packs.
Well, especially when you look at a lot of the battery packs, are not one battery?
Oh no, it's a series of batteries.
Some of them are thousands of batteries yeah.
You know, and each of those batteries may be the size of a VHS tape and there may be four or 500 of them, and any one of them in the middle that goes bad is not individually serviceable.
You have to replace the whole battery pack.
Now there are some companies out there who have come up with I can vaguely hear the speaker.
I can make out what he's saying.
Okay, well, I don't know what else to tell.
Gabe, can you hear me?
I can hear you very faintly, faintly, hmm.
Well, I don't know how else to help you in that regard.
But we can hear you fine.
So if you can hear us faintly.
At least you can hear us.
I have you on full volume here.
Okay, I don't know what to tell you, and Mars has got the wrong headset on for you.
So I was talking about how, on my iPhone, I can look in my iPhone and see what my battery health is.
Is there such a screen or a device inside of EV cars to look at the battery health?
Well, not exactly.
Some cars give you a display of the battery state of charge as well as the range, the predicted range.
But as far as battery health, only third party outfits can give you that, and even that you have to take with a grain of salt.
So, gabe, I'm assuming that you can hear me talk to you and I will tell you that we earlier we read a story that Tesla facing California class action status on the EV range claims and the research that you guys have done and your story indicates that all of them are about the same when it comes to the temperature affecting how much range
you can actually get out of the batteries for almost all the vehicles, except Tesla, who claims their official EPA range of 326 miles, but even with perfect conditions where the weather is warm and everybody else is at their max, they only get 274 miles.
So what was the testing criteria that you guys used?
Clearly, temperature is one of them.
So let me start with this for the record.
This is a very different test than the EPA test.
So the EPA tests in varied speeds and lab testing.
Our test was on road testing of cruising at 70 miles an hour, which is typical of any kind of road trip, and this is what most people associate with range.
So we took four popular EVs the Tesla Model Y, the Ionic, honda Ionic 5, the VW ID4, and the Ford Mustang Mach E, with three times once in frigid weather in February, once in the mild day of April mid-60s and another time in typical summer conditions of mid-80s and on an August day.
So we found that compared to the mild weather of mid-60s, in frigid weather, which on that day the temperature averaged 16 degrees Fahrenheit, the range took a hit of about 25%, which was common throughout all four models, and if you compare it to the warm weather, that hit was 31%, which was actually a surprise.
Our expectation was that we were going to get the longest range in mild weather, but we actually got the longest range in mid-80s type weather, even though the AC had to work harder than it had to in mid-60s.
But that kind of performance range variance of the battery is maybe not in the number of range.
But even a lead acid battery of a 12-volt battery, even of a regular car, that battery's performance varies depending on the ambient temperature.
So it's not uncommon to see that performance change based on what the ambient temperature is.
Yeah, it's not uncommon.
We sought to quantify that difference so people can know what they should expect, because there have been a lot of numbers flying out there yeah, you lose 17%, you lose 34%, and, but compared to what?
You always have to have a baseline, you have to have a nominal range that you want to compare yourself to.
So that was the point of our experiment, and I'll just stress that everything was exactly the same.
The route was the same, the same drivers, the same regent setting, the same speed, the same setting for the climate control.
So everything was completely equal, except for the outside temperature.
So do you think that there is a?
The deviation is in the EPA testing for the battery range or is it in the manufacturers jacking around with the EPA testing?
I can't speak for manufacturers or for the EPA, but there are all kinds of factors going to the EPA testing and all kinds of manufacturers have a role to play.
Our goal was to do something that's real world and something that consumers can relate to, because a highway cruise at 70 miles an hour is not something the EPA tests for and that's what you and I would consider a typical range when
we look at going traveling to ski resort in Vermont or going on a long distance trip from here to DC, for instance 70 miles an hour down Interstate 10 will put you in the middle lane because you're not fast enough to get out there amongst the big boys.
Yeah Well, let me say this I experienced one time at a manufacturer facility, on a test track, that they were doing quote unquote EPA testing on some of the vehicles that they manufactured I'm not going to tell you which one, it doesn't make any difference but they were actual employees of the manufacturer and I was told that the EPA really doesn't actually do the test.
They set the criteria and the manufacturer reports those figures not only to the EPA, but that's what they put on the window sticker.
Is that the same for battery operated vehicles?
As far as I know, it is largely the same.
So there is a collaboration between the EPA and the manufacturers in arriving at that number.
Yeah, so I will say also that there is a city number and a highway number for the EPA, but what consumers see on the sticker is only an overall number, a single number.
So consumers report.
Consumer reports goal was to come up with a consistent comparative test between those four vehicles with the range of ambient temperatures, to show how that variance and deliver that to the public.
That's exactly right.
This wasn't about proving anybody right or wrong.
It was about here's the data that we delivered and here's how we delivered it, because nobody really knows and I don't know if consumer reports knows exactly what the test criteria is for the EPA numbers as well.
Is that public knowledge or is that something that they kind of keep to themselves?
Because I got to remember Volkswagen took a huge hit years ago about jacking with the system on the diesels and how they come up with their EPA fuel mileage numbers, and they paid a huge price for it.
Yeah, it wasn't meant as a commentary about the EPA or about Tesla.
It was purely meant as a consumer information that would align expectations for anyone who owns an EV and for anyone who is a prospective EV buyer.
I think before you joined us and you could hear us, I read the story that automotive news had just a couple of days ago the Tesla facing California class action on its EV range claims and, as you found out and gave us the information, the official EPA range 326 miles when in reality, on a warm day, the Tesla Model Y only got 274 miles.
Yeah, if you look at all the ranges we got and compare them to the EPA even though it's not apples to apples comparison then the gap between what the Tesla got to what other cars got compared to the EPA is the widest gap.
Right, I mean just for what it's worth.
The Model Y, the Tesla Model Y and the Mach-E were within one or two miles of range on each one of the three runs throughout.
Right, yeah, exactly Cold, mild and warm days, and it was definitely an eye-opener when I saw the official EPA range and what you actually got.
Well, Gabe, it's great to talk to you.
Sorry for the technical issues that we had early on, but I will tell you that it's very interesting information and we always love talking to consumer reports, and I assume that this particular report is available to the public without having to actually join consumer reports on your website?
Yeah, it is available to the public.
We published it.
We already updated the story twice.
So if you just go consumer reports, range tests, it should pop right up Okay, consumerreportsorg.
Slash cars, slash hybrids, and there you go, gabe.
Thank you so much again for joining us today.
We appreciate you, thank you, thank you, okay.
Inwheel time race card is sponsored by Texas Nostalgia Modified Production.
And as we were talking to Angel Sanpei before, the next NHRA event is next weekend at Kansas and then August 17th through the 19th at Brainerd.
Then the US Nationals is always Labor Day weekend and the weekend after that is Maple Grove, pennsylvania.
So lots of stuff going on in NHRA NASCAR.
Next weekend is the Indy Road course, the weekend after that is the Watkins Glen Road course Interesting to see two road courses coming into the championship countdown like that.
And then August 26th is the second Daytona race, which used to run Fourth of July weekend, but they did that Chicago thing Fourth of July weekend instead.
So I really liked that Chicago race.
I liked it.
It was a shame that so much of it was rained out, but I thought it was a pretty interesting race running for their lives.
Formula One the Dutch Grand Prix, is the weekend of August the 27th.
They're on their summer break right now.
Think about that.
I get a summer break, summer break what the hell is that?
They've always taken a couple of three weeks off.
It's dope, no, it's Formula One, because they're all.
They're all Europeans and everybody gets you know month off all the time over there.
And then the Italian Grand Prix is Labor Day weekend, you know.
Don't forget about it, forget about it, Right?
No forget about it.
Imsa is going to be at a Virginia international raceway the 27th of August.
Indycar is at Gateway the 27th of August.
As well.
Thank you, sir.
You know Jeff is out today on his family vacation up in Michigan, so Mr Mars is wearing many hats today and one of them is doing Jeff's feature that he put together for us five most popular drag racing movies.
Now you can take and your popular means a lot of different things to a lot of different people, but what we kind of looked at was what you hear a lot of talk about, a lot of hype about.
Now, number five that I went with was Heart Like a Wheel.
Now this is the biographical film about Shirley Muldon.
This takes and it goes through her life.
It kind of goes through her life story, brings her into the drag racing where she's trying to break into a sport that's dominated by men.
Why didn't it cut there?
It went, and so she had to.
You know, I mean, it goes into something about her life.
It's not just a bunch of drag cars.
Here's a shot of her dragster that she was running top fuel.
She ran a little bit into the funny car world and this right here is what I think is her most famous poster Stop didn't stop when it was supposed to stop.
Because you got too many damn fingers on the computer.
You're right, oh, here's the Mustang yeah, this right here is what happened.
I have a signed poster of that.
I do I also have one when she was here, when we talked to her in Baytown, and she says you sure you want me to put love, surely on there for you.
I said absolutely.
Well, I didn't get the love.
Love you, donnie, yes.
So then number four is another one that's kind of become a cult for a lot of reasons, and it is two lane black top.
Now, I found this show rather interesting.
It's kind of, basically, it's about two guys.
The one of them is called the driver, the other is called the mechanic.
They don't have names in the show, that's just what they go by and one of them was James Taylor and they drag race their James Taylor the singer, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, he was the driver movie.
He was the one who drove the 55.
Yeah and remember that 55 we had the guy on the show from Kiehl's and Wills who drove that car in high school because his dad built the car for the movie.
It actually had three different cars they used to get that movie made.
The main car had a 454 aluminum heads, tunnel rands, twin holly sitting up on top of it, so it was a real performance vehicle.
It just wasn't sitting there to look cool.
And it culminates in a big race between the 55 and the GTO, who were driven by Warren Oates, and they're racing for pinks, and I won't spoil it for you, since you seem to have not caught it yet.
All of it, and I think that was a 70 GTO Ram Air 4.
Whatever, whatever, no matter how many matters.
Number three Now this is where it starts getting into where box office really makes a difference.
American graffiti came out and it was about the transition from high school going off to college and a night in Southern California this group of people kids went through.
Actually, it was Modesto.
California, modesto, what did I say?
Central?
California Picky picky, picky.
Well, just finish the story, fuck God.
So they go out through the night, and so it's their escapades.
There's 58 Chevys, there's 32 Ford's, there's another 55 in it, and this is all centered around Mills Drive-In, where they meet up for the weekend and they go off on all their escapades, but it culminates in the big race out on Paradise Road.
Oh yeah, I forgot.
Guess who that is?
Uh-huh, uh-huh.
Suzanne Summers.
That's right, we all knew that one.
Yes, sir, and it was hot and she was really cool because that's all you saw was just her face there inside of the car.
But it ends up out on Paradise Road in the big race between Milner and Falfa in the 55 and Milner wins and it's all good, like it's supposed to be Now.
Then from there you get into the more serious money where you got Greece.
Now you may think why is this musical?
It's all back in the 50s.
But it culminates also in the big drag race from the high school team and their nemesis from the Scorpion Club.
They're racing for pinks.
Then the LA River.
In the LA River.
Yes, yes, yes, that is Southern California.
Thank you very much, thank you.
Thank you, thank you, he doesn't spend a lot of time out there.
Remember where he's from.
Yeah, that's true, he doesn't.
you know, they don't have airplanes going in and out of Neaterville $396 million in the box office on this one, so it was pretty popular, played forever and ever and is still on TV.
Yes, Now you get into.
You know, and there's the 44 that the Greece Lightning that they built in the high school shop.
What happened to the picture?
It's the.
Greece.
Lightning and this is the Scorpion car, and then they're racing, like you say, in the LA River turns into a big race.
Then you get to the number, what I think is going to end up being the number one for a lot of reasons, including the box office.
Started in 2001 that started off the series of the Fast and Furious.
It made $207 million just to kick it off, and now it's up to what number I think there's 42.
Yeah, I think that's 40 or something like that.
So, and it's all of its street racers.
But it also culminates in the big drag race there towards the end, with the 70 model Charger sitting up on the rear bumper and all this and blown, and it really is the big drag race and all these movies culminate in the big drag race and that's where you get it and then you put you left out our friend Erica Enders and her life story.
That was a Disney movie.
What was the name of the movie done?
That's it.
It was, but as as her, as a junior dragster right right, I couldn't find it because I couldn't think of the name of it.
So sorry, erica.
She's gonna.
Well, I'm gonna move on, because I can't think of it either, but that's, you know, fitting for my age.
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Everyone at the tailpipes and tacos cruise in at the loopy tortilla Tex-Max and Katie.
Thank you for participating in the best cruise in around and look forward to seeing you again.
You'll hear about the next cruise in date right here on in-wheel time.
Next time you're in the West Houston energy corridor area, be sure and stop in at the original loopy tortilla Tex-Max at I-10 and highway 6 or the Katie location on the Grand Parkway at Kingsland Boulevard when passing through Beaumont or college station.
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About this episode
Gabe Shenard from Consumer Reports joins the discussion on the discrepancies between advertised and actual electric vehicle (EV) ranges, highlighting a recent class-action lawsuit against Tesla. The conversation dives into how temperature affects battery performance, revealing significant range variances across different conditions. Additionally, the hosts explore the racing calendar and share their top five drag racing movies, including classics like 'American Graffiti' and 'The Fast and the Furious.' This episode blends technical insights with entertaining automotive culture.
Original notes
Join us for an ‘electrifying’ episode that looks at Electric Vehicle (EV) range claims. In today's show, we talk about how far an EV can truly take you versus what the manufacturers advertise. We'll take a look into the recent lawsuit slapped on Tesla by its Californian owners, claiming that the company has been falsely marketing the estimated driving ranges of its EVs. We discuss how factors like temperature and speed can significantly influence the battery life of your vehicle, hence the range.
Gabe Shenhar from Consumer Reports is lending us his expertise on the subject of actual EV range vs the claims. An investigation into the performance testing criteria of popular EV models like Tesla Model Y, Ionic 5, VW ID4, and Ford Mustang Mach-E, revealed some unexpected results. Imagine your EV range dropping by 25% in frosty conditions and by a whopping 31% during warm temperatures! We'll decode these intriguing findings and talk about the EPA testing criteria and the reporting process followed by manufacturers.
We also will have the Race Card running through the NHRA, NASCAR, Formula One, and Indycar. In our Feature Segment, we have lineup of the five popular drag racing movies!
Make sure to tune in every Saturday from 8 to 11amCT on iHeart Radio, the new In Wheel Time Car Talk app in the App Store, with a video simulcast on Facebook, YouTube, Twitch, Twitter and our website.
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