The off season is the break between racing stretches. Teams use that time to figure out what worked, what didn’t, and how to be faster when the next season starts.
When they say “speed,” they mean how fast the car can go and how well it performs. After time off, drivers worry they might not feel as confident or the car might not be as quick as before.
A “top team” is basically a really strong NASCAR organization. They usually have better support and faster cars, so it’s easier to keep performing instead of starting over.
Dale Jarrett is a former NASCAR driver and a well-known figure in the sport. Calling him suggests the speaker sought advice from an experienced veteran about career decisions and what to expect after stepping away from racing.
Practice sessions are used to learn how the car behaves and how the track feels, often leading to adjustments in setup and driving approach. In NASCAR, practice performance can be a key indicator of race-day potential.
In NASCAR, driver contracts cover things like ride/seat commitments, sponsor obligations, and performance expectations. Changes in contracts can affect team dynamics, car resources, and long-term career planning.
Lawsuits can arise in motorsports from sponsorship disputes, contractual disagreements, or other legal conflicts. Even when they don’t directly change the car’s mechanical setup, they can influence team stability and driver focus.
Joe Gibbs is the key person behind Joe Gibbs Racing. The conversation is about how Denny Hamlin’s relationship with that team leadership has stayed strong over time.
Pit road is where the race team goes to work on the car during the race. It’s a special area with rules so the crew can change things quickly and safely.
The pit crew handles fast service during scheduled pit stops—tire changes, refueling, and adjustments—while minimizing time lost. Pit crew performance is a major factor in NASCAR because even small delays can cost track position and race outcome.
Switching crew chiefs (or other key leadership roles) in NASCAR can change how the team approaches car setup, race strategy, and communication. Even with the same driver and organization, a new crew chief can mean a different development direction and learning curve.
Chris Gale is referenced here as the crew chief/lead figure Hamlin is working with after the switch. In NASCAR, the crew chief’s influence shows up in car development, race strategy, and how quickly the team improves over a season.
“Point standings” refers to NASCAR’s season-long ranking system based on race results and bonus points. Teams track where drivers sit in the standings because it affects playoff positioning and strategy. Being “atop the point standings” means leading the championship race.
The Daytona 500 is NASCAR’s most prestigious race, held at Daytona International Speedway. Winning it is a major benchmark for a driver and team because it’s a high-profile, high-competition event with unique superspeedway dynamics. It often signals a team’s readiness for the full season.
A “competition group” is the team’s internal performance organization responsible for turning data into race-winning setups and strategies. It typically coordinates engineering, car development, and race-week execution. The speaker credits that group’s leadership and staffing changes for broader team improvement.
“Personnel changes” means swapping or adding team members—often engineers, strategists, crew roles, or other performance staff. In NASCAR, these decisions can affect car setup development, race strategy, and how quickly the team learns from data. The speaker links these changes to improved results across departments.
This highlights a driver development approach: pinpointing specific weaknesses and targeting them. In racing, that often translates to more precise feedback about the car’s behavior and clearer priorities for engineering changes.
The championship is the big goal for the whole season. It’s not only about being near the top—it’s about being good enough across different tracks to finish the season with the most points.
Michael Jordan is referenced as a major celebrity figure connected to the competition side. In NASCAR, high-profile owners/sponsors can influence team visibility and branding, even though on-track performance still depends on car setup and execution.
The schedule is the list of races and when they happen during the year. Changing it can affect how teams plan travel and how hard the season feels for drivers.
Long term strategy means thinking years ahead instead of just the next race. The goal is to make sure the sport keeps getting better and stays interesting for more people.
A caution flag means something is wrong on the track, so cars slow down for safety. It can make the race feel like it’s taking longer because everyone has to go slower for a while.
Fan experience is basically how the race feels to watch. That can include things like how long delays last and how the broadcast keeps you interested.
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It's a winning team. It's a championship team.
It's a team that should have won the championship last year.
You're able to bring Michael Jordan joy.
Yeah, that is such a huge responsibility.
It's such a great responsibility to have.
How special is that relationship with Joe?
We'll forget when my dad and him were out on pit road.
My dad goes to him. He's all yours now.
Well, we figured we'd find a spot that seems like you've been pretty interested in lately with all the fishing and boating.
Here we are.
I like it.
This is actually a pretty good spot to find some bass.
It's got some rip rat right here on the edge.
The sun getting on it.
The fish like to attract to the heat, so the rocks keep the heat.
So when you were growing up, did you fish?
No.
Okay.
So it sounds like you've acquired this fishing expertise.
Is this like a chat GPT thing?
Are we going to real people?
It's helped me.
AI has definitely helped me educate me.
But it really started.
I went and had a vacation with my dad in the middle of last summer.
There was a place that was like, hey, we got some fishing poles.
If you want to throw out where the cabin is, where you're at, we did.
We both caught some bass.
It was like pretty fun.
I was like, man, maybe I should take this up.
Well, I've tried to get into it.
But every time I go fishing with somebody, and I'm sure it'll be the same way with you today,
I just throw my line in the water time, after time, after time.
And the guy next to me catches all the fish.
So either I can't see, can't hear, can't feel whatever the catchers think.
I'm going to figure out what they want.
So last week you go back to Vegas.
You went 60 at Vegas.
Obviously it was super emotional with everything that you had going on.
You had all the things go on with your dad and your mom and everything over the winter, the lawsuit.
And you go back to Vegas and win again.
And when I watched afterwards, it just seemed like you were very controlled with your emotions
and kind of just everybody there, your mom was there.
What was that like for you this time around?
Yeah, it's just different this time around.
Obviously in the fall, dad wasn't doing well and knew that our time was limited there.
And I knew that that gave us a shot to go race in Phoenix for a championship.
So the emotions were really high there because I knew that, okay, he saw me get 60.
And he's going to get to see me go race for a championship.
So that was really the edge that kind of got me going emotionally on that one.
And then this one was just kind of the, okay, we can still do it.
It's been a few months since we had won.
A lot of that was not racing at all, but you just don't know.
And the off season was like, do I still have the speed that I had before?
And then the gratification of knowing that all my family was there
and they hadn't been there for the last handful of races.
It's just with everyone's schedules and everything.
Yeah, well, it was pretty neat to see.
So you got to 61.
You broke our tie.
Congrats.
Thanks.
And we had this conversation on Monday on the podcast and I think that you can get to 70.
In your mind, like, do you have a number you've talked about, you know, next year,
possibly being your last year.
And, you know, I went through all that myself.
It's like, when's good last year?
When's bad last year?
And we started talking about Daryl Walter and Jimmy Johnson and all these guys that lost at the end of the career.
And it seems like your team is in a spot right now.
It's as good as it's ever been, in my opinion.
And when I was at your point in my mid-40s, it's like everything just came easier from a circle of life standpoint mentally.
So in your head, I mean, how many races do you think you can get to 70?
Because I think it'll be really difficult.
I just do.
I just think that, you know, that's four more this year, five more next year.
It's just a big number.
It's above all my averages.
So I'd have to be above the average of what I've been my whole career.
Does that matter to you?
Do you even think about that?
I mean, not.
I mean, it all matters.
I mean, I want to get as many as I can.
I thought realistically, 67 would be a legit goal.
So you do think about it.
You've got an exact number.
That would be the goal.
Because that's another six or so.
That's really doable.
But once you get in that number, it's like what's the difference of one or two more?
It's just icing on the cake.
And when you're winning, I mean, at the end, I kind of won, kind of didn't.
You know, so it was a little bit easier for me, but it would have been really hard to just say,
I'm going to stop right now.
And while I mean, we were competitive and still won a couple of races, but I mean, but did you know?
I mean, you don't know.
Yeah, I mean, it's just such a difficult decision.
Did you feel like, here's a really good question.
I would usually just call you up and ask you this.
But if you were with a top team like I am, and you were still at the skill set you felt like you were in your last year,
would you go one more then?
I probably would have.
Like if I was driving and in your situation, I probably would have kept going.
But you know, at Stuart Haas, it was kind of the end.
Right.
And I didn't want to go to another team and learn another system.
That's right.
And, you know, and it also became, for me, it became like a balance of, okay, like, you know,
Keeland was racing and, you know, I've got the opportunity with Fox to go and say, okay,
I can work for 14, 16 weeks, whatever it is, and a little bit during the week and go do that.
So it was a tough decision.
And I had to call, I called Dale Jarrett.
I called a bunch of people just to say, okay, how do you know?
Because you don't know.
But it would have been way harder in your position.
Yeah, because I feel like as a competitor, I felt like when you quit, you were, I mean,
I think you still led laps in your last training, right?
Yeah, I led the last one.
I thought you were just as competitive as you were for the first 20 years.
I competed again.
Yeah.
And so, but again, the situation is different because the team was on its way out and mine
still, you know, doing really well.
So you're in your mid-40s and, you know, you've won, let's see, 17 races since you turned 40.
Everybody talks about this as a young man's game and I don't necessarily agree with that
because I think experience in NASCAR, in the NASCAR Cup Series really matters.
And I think you expose that on a number of weekends where you can just outthink them
and outdo them and go through traffic and do things at a higher level.
What do you think that just the generational talent is as far as experience versus young?
I think experience matters.
I mean, if I had to just sit down with a young guy and explain to them all the things I know
about just Las Vegas, it would take a day.
And it's just notes that I've compiled over time and experience that I've had over failures
and different, you know, different successes.
And so I just, there's the experience just really, really matters.
And I know what I need to feel at all these tracks because I won at them.
Yeah.
And that just, it's really hard to replicate when you know that at Vegas,
and it's how I knew after practice is like, yeah, we're good because I knew that, yep,
it's got the same feel that it had previously and that's equal to win.
For a young guy, they're just trying to find their way.
Are you good at poker?
I haven't played quite some time.
Your poker face was not that good.
It was not good.
When we got done with the interview, we went off the air.
I'm like, well, fellas, the 11 is probably going to win this race this weekend because,
and I saw you stuck with me.
I do.
Absolutely.
The whole thing.
It was, it was, it was very evident that you were, that you were confident in your car.
And I think as, as you, when you, you're pretty savvy about the, about the media side of things
and the things you say.
And when you talk like that, you better, you better pay attention.
Yeah.
And, and it's, it was, it was fun to see.
And, and I think that, you know, the other interesting thing for me is, you know,
you go through all the stuff that you've gone through over the last couple of years with lawsuits
and your family and ups and downs and contracts, but it's, it's, you're pretty open about everything.
But your relationship with Joe Gibbs is, I mean, it never seems to waver.
I'm sure you guys argue and, and have some disagreements, but they never go public.
And just how special is that relationship with, with Joe?
Because it just seems like you guys have always just been together.
Yeah.
I just never will forget when my dad and him were out on pit road and, you know,
my dad goes to him.
He's all yours now.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
And so that moment just kind of was like where Joe took over is, is my at track dad.
And he really did.
And so I just felt like, you know, the relationship with him is grown.
I've got to know his family quite a bit.
I just, I would do anything for him because I know he would do anything he could for me.
And, and it's just, it's just been a really strong relationship and a loyalty there that something that will never break.
Is this the best team you've ever had at Joe Gibbs racing?
I mean, it's really complete.
It's just, I got a really good rapport with crew chief engineers that the pit crew, they've been to, you know,
I've had the same group of guys now for like two or three years straight.
It's, it's a winning team.
It's a championship team.
It's a team that should have won the championship last year.
Didn't, but that this team is absolutely capable.
Is that the way you thought it would go when you switched from Chris?
No, I was.
I mean, that was the biggest.
Beef I had with the whole situation is when you just got to talking about, well, I didn't want to start over with someone else.
And that's what I didn't want.
I, you know, I said to Joe, and that was one of the very few times where I did get a little frustrated.
It was like, you know, come at the point of my career, I don't want to start over with another crew chief and things like that.
But I tell you, working with Chris Gale, it's really been an honor.
And he's, he's really done a great job of taking this team and making it better.
He's really put his own touch on it, his own fingerprints over the last few years and we're seeing it with the results.
Yeah, it's pretty amazing to, you know, you think you've got this all-star team and everything that you've got going on.
And then all of a sudden everybody has to stop and think and say, okay, he's a good driver.
He's a good crew chief.
We have this great organization and then all of a sudden you don't really start over, but you start over with a relationship.
And it almost, it's like, it's like finding a new girlfriend, right?
When you start over, you want to really impress her and you never know how it's going to work.
And so, you know, it's been pretty amazing to think that that 11 car could get better than what it was, but it really has.
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and room service to feel like because at Hilton hospitality feels like your cabanas ready.
Would you like fresh towels?
It matters where you stay.
Book now at Hilton.com. Hilton for this day.
So not only have you been successful in the driver's seat on the racetrack this year, but 2311 has just started off just on a ball of fire.
You got the first two guys atop the point standings.
Tyler has gone, you know, went and won the first three races and not only the first three races, but the Daytona 500.
You know how special that is.
After everything that you had going on last year with the lawsuit, it obviously doesn't help the team and make it function better because of all the questions.
Did you ever imagine that it would fire off like it did this year?
Not really. I mean, truthfully not really.
Now, I know that the team had done some things in the off season and Dave Rogers, who runs the competition group over there, has made some personnel changes to improve all the teams.
We had some extra hires in the off season that improved all departments in our team.
And so we continue to build it.
Every year we've had more employees year over year over year to help build that program into where I want it to be and where Michael wants to be.
But I would have never imagined a dream start that they've had.
And it's not just Tyler, right? It's Riley showing improvement.
We've got Bubba, P2 in the points, most stage points of the year so far.
So they're all, they're running where we expect them to run and where we want them to run.
But it's still, it's very hard in this sport to expect to be atop the standings like we're at right now.
So, Tyler Redick, I had him on the show at the first of the year and after his Daytona 500 win and he was hired to win races.
And I'm sure that's the expectation he had and you have.
But I was sitting in the green room and they're like, hey, Redick's on.
And I'm like, Redick's on. It's 10 minutes early.
And I get on there and I ask him, I say, hey, how are you?
And he said, good. I said, man, I'm surprised you're 10 minutes early.
And he said to me, he said, well, I'm trying to get my stuff together because I don't want to lose again next year.
And I realized that through all the hard conversations and everything through the winter that I had to do some things differently.
And, you know, some guys recognize that some guys don't.
How much of that has been a part of the process with him to get him in that frame of mind where the circle of life is good,
where he's realizing that he has to be a part of the team.
He can't just show up and drive the car.
Good observation.
And I would say that, you know, that has been single-haily the biggest change that the 45 team has made in the offseason
is I think as Tyler has made it with himself.
You know, yeah, there were things all great last year with everyone on the team and him, so so.
But I feel like this year he buckled out as like, you know what, I'm going to identify the things that I need to improve on.
Talks different.
And I'm going to trust that the team is going to improve in the areas that they need to improve on.
And so when you have those honest conversations and people, you know, have honest moments where they look at themselves
and figure out where they can be better, that's when you're going to get the best results.
It's, you know, Michael Jordan's famous.
Well, you point your finger at me, you got three more pointing back at you, right?
Right.
It's just, there's just, you got to trust in the process.
And I feel like in the offseason, Tyler got some things.
And he went through some personal stuff last year as well with his son.
So to have that kind of behind him, the family life where he wants it now.
And it seems like him and Billy are now in the best spot that they've ever been in.
Can they, I mean, do you think that they, like right now, do you think that they could compete with you to race for that championship?
I think that they still got a little room to improve.
That would be good.
Easy for me to say.
I mean, he's leading the standings.
But to win this whole thing, I think he's going to have to get better on the short tracks, which is crazy to say for Tyler Reddick.
But I think that's the one weakness I see in the 45 is just, can they improve a little bit?
It doesn't take much, just a little bit on the short tracks.
If they can do that, then they're a complete team.
They would be more complete than the 11 because the 11 on the road courses can't run with the 45.
So he's your road course coach?
Yeah, exactly.
The whole 23-11 thing has been so interesting because you've got one of the world's biggest superstars in Michael Jordan.
You've got yourself, and he said it on the competition side.
He just follows your lead, and you guys have done a great job in mixing that up.
He's been at pretty much every race this year as we've gone along.
He definitely couldn't stop going until the streak was broken.
But what's that mean?
I mean, I know what it means from a branding standpoint.
But when he's out there high-fiving the pit crew guys and slapping them on the back,
what does that do internally at 23-11 when they see him around so much?
They obviously see you all the time.
Yeah, I mean, this is a dream.
It's a dream for me, much less those pit crew guys or whether it be the team guys or whatever pit box is on that day.
To be able to interact with them.
And I told them, bring in him.
You're able to bring Michael Jordan joy.
Yeah, that is such a huge responsibility.
It's a great responsibility to have.
No one's ever seen him this excited before, right?
And that is because of the hard work that you guys have put in.
And so it just means a lot for Team morale.
And, you know, he sits in in our meetings, in our competition meeting.
He'll really, and yeah, every now and then he'll sit in on it, give his feedback.
We had one before the season started talking to all the drivers and the crew chiefs and all the department heads
about what it takes to be a championship caliber team.
And those words really rang deep with a lot of our team people.
And they took it to heart.
And I mean, they've just been working really hard.
So you've got, you've got three cars on the racetrack right now.
You've got, in my opinion, what is one of the best young guys that is coming up through our sport in Corey Heim.
Where is our ladder system?
Because to me it's, the Cup Series is a little bit broken as to how you get there and who's eligible.
When you see a guy who's done what Corey Heim has done and not able to compete full-time
because, you know, it's just, there's not an open slot.
And you guys can't put a car on the track full-time, I would assume, because of where you are.
That's the toughest part is when this new charter agreement came about and it cut the teams from four to three,
it was like, okay, we had already made plans.
And so that really was a tough one.
And in the long run, I'd like to see that change back.
So where do you see that ladder system in where we are?
Do you think it's broken?
I mean, do you think that the requirements for a Cup driver need to be different?
Are the ages right, not right?
What's your opinion on that?
It just keeps changing.
You know, it was, you got to be 18, then you don't have to be 18.
You know, I don't know about all that.
I mean, some of these young drivers that are 17, 18-year-olds, I mean, they had the experience of a 25-year-old.
When I got into, you know, a Norealis car, I had far less experience.
I think I ran a couple of Arca races, a couple of truck races, and then got into the Norealis car.
Nowadays, I think the system is a little bit broken, more so at the top level than the bottom.
I think it's okay to have some inexperienced guys out on, you say, for Arca.
Now, do I think they should be at Daytona?
Absolutely not.
I think that's just too fast of speeds.
We certainly could update the ladder system because if you made it more stringent,
it essentially would force Cup teams and Norealis teams to then hire those that have accomplished the most in the lower levels.
That's the way it should even be.
So, you have your alliance with Joe Gibbs Racing.
You guys obviously do a lot at 2311.
Do you ever see it being anything more than Cup?
I mean, do you ever see having your own system to feed your own drivers through there?
I mean, I think anything is possible.
When I bought land for the team, I bought extra just in case.
You just never know.
I mean, I think that we don't know where things go in the future.
Again, what kind of fields, cars we field or what have you.
I know that we're really happy with the Cup stuff right now and that being our primary focus.
It's hard just to do that.
It is.
And then, you know, the advantages of the big teams is that they do have some sort of feeder system.
If they don't have it themselves, they're aligned with someone that they're getting the people and the drivers from.
So, that in turn is like the best way to do it long term.
But it just takes a really significant investment that we're just not at quite yet until we accomplish what we want on the Cup side.
So, you went through everything that you went through.
The sports obviously changed some.
I feel like it's in a really good spot right now as far as building itself back up to what we all envision it to see.
What's the top thing on your radar right now?
Because you're really good at looking at the whole picture of things.
The top thing we need to work on now that we've moved past everything from last year.
Yeah, Ali.
I mean, I think it's not too early to think about the next charter agreement.
I think it's not too early to think about where does the sport go long term with its schedule?
Do we race 38 weeks a year?
Is it totally necessary to race that many times?
I mean, that's why we have to hire so many people.
We're one right after another. There is no breaks.
I thought I heard that the trucks had 14 off weeks.
Sure, that'd be a lot more cost effective if we could do that.
But I think you've got to think about long term where the sport goes.
I certainly feel as though NASCAR has got a really good strategy going forward
as far as how it's presenting itself, getting back to its roots.
I don't know. We're both part of those conversations.
We've got to think about five to ten years for now.
If you could build this thing from scratch, how would you build it?
Where would you go? Would you go to places multiple times?
All those things need to be thought about.
The races need to be as long as they are.
How can we shorten up caution flags to not take 20 minutes?
There's all kinds of little things that I think could improve the fan experience.
It's an interesting conversation.
Everybody has a different perspective on it as to what that needs to be.
But it's definitely in a better spot than it was.
It's been fun to watch everything that you've done or respect the effort that you put into the sport.
I think a lot of guys don't put the effort in that they could
and watching what you've done with the team and the sport.
Everything is fun to follow.
It's what I love.
It's what I grew up watching.
When I was a kid, it's what we did as a family.
Every Sunday, I had to make sure I got to get the grass cut
and then I could come in and watch the race with my dad and his best friend George.
That was what we did as a family.
It's still such a big part of my family.
It's something that I hope to be a part of for a long time.
I appreciate you taking the time. Thank you.
About this episode
Denny Hamlin talks with Kevin Harvick about bouncing back after a brutal winter of family turmoil and legal fallout, then returning to win in Vegas with a calmer, more controlled mindset. They dig into Hamlin’s thoughts on chasing milestones like 70 wins, the value of experience versus “young talent,” and why he chose to step away when he did. Hamlin also praises Joe Gibbs Racing’s 11 team, discusses Tyler Reddick’s breakout start and what’s still needed on short tracks, and weighs NASCAR’s future schedule, charter system, and driver ladder opportunities.
Denny Hamlin breaks down his emotional NASCAR Cup Series win in Las Vegas, explains why this may be the best team he has ever had at Joe Gibbs Racing, and discusses the dominant start to the season for Michael Jordan’s 23XI Racing. On this episode of Kevin Harvick’s Happy Hour, Kevin Harvick sits down with Hamlin to discuss how his season has unfolded so far, what made the Las Vegas victory so meaningful, why his current team has been so effective, the early success of 23XI Racing and Michael Jordan’s impact at the track, what still needs to improve moving forward, and how he views the future of NASCAR as the sport continues to evolve.
0:00 - Intro0:33 - Denny Hamlin Joins The Show!1:57 - Emotions At Las Vegas4:24 - Deciding When To Retire7:46 - Experience Vs. Youth In NASCAR9:38 - Relationship With Joe Gibbs12:22 - 23XI’s Hot Start16:49 - Michael Jordan’s Influence On 23XI18:54 - NASCAR Ladder System22:15 - NASCAR’s Next Challenge
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