Dutch Grand Prix Debrief 2025 | with Alex Brundle

What's up? It's Sean Linda from Two Black Guys of Good Credit.

If managed supply runs is still on your to-do list, here's your science upgrade.

Walmart Business has the tech, tools, and services that make it ridiculously easy to stock up for your office or team.

Think schedule deliveries, multi-user accounts, and even IT setup.

Bonus. With a Walmart Business Plus membership, you get free shipping,

spend analytics, and 2% rewards.

Join the smart way to shop at business.walmart.com.

Terms apply.

There are a million reasons people start therapy.

A breakup, burnout, a new job, whatever your reason, there is one place to start.

Grow Therapy meets you where you are, with support that actually sticks.

Whether it's your first time in therapy or your 50th,

Grow makes it easier to find a therapist who fits you, not the other way around.

They connect you with thousands of independent licensed therapists across the U.S.,

offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends.

You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability,

and get started in as little as two days.

And if something comes up, you can cancel up to 24 hours in advance at no cost.

There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments, you just pay per session.

Grow helps you find therapy on your time.

Whatever challenges you're facing, Grow Therapy is here to help.

Sessions average about $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0, depending on their plan.

Grow accepts over 100 insurance plans, including Medicaid in some states.

Visit growtherapy.com slash start now today to get started.

That's growtherapy.com slash start now.

Growtherapy.com slash start now.

Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

F1 is officially back. Oh, my God. Is it back? Where do we even start?

We had three safety cars, multiple crashes.

Two drivers were left to contemplate everything in the sand dunes,

like they were in a romantic rom-com.

The title has swung massively in Oscar Priastri's favor.

Heartbreak, Philando Norris. Double DNF for Ferrari.

And Isaac Hajar has got his first ever podium.

Let's debrief it. We're going to talk all about it.

I am Betty Glover. This is the Fast and the Curious podcast.

And joining me today is the one and only, Alex Brundle.

Alex, hello. Hello, hello.

How are you? What a Grand Prix. What a Grand Prix.

That was wild. For a Grand Prix, everybody sat down to watch and went,

yeah, you know, if something doesn't happen for the first 30 laps,

I'm not going to judge this too hard. It's great to be at Zambor.

It was absolutely mad, wasn't it?

It was insane, Alex. And before we started recording this,

you said that is the race. That is the race of the season.

You know, I've been harping on, on air and on podcasts all year,

about one race where one of those McLaren duo that are clearly the class of the field now,

when you look at the pace, even versus Verstappen disappearing,

even on entire deltas, blah, blah, blah.

There was going to be a race at some point this year.

I honestly believe they were going to have a crash with someone

like a Charlotte Claire or someone like a Max Verstappen.

You know, a wheel-to-wheel thing, but where they didn't finish.

What I didn't have on my bingo card in a 2025 Formula One car

was a power unit failure. I just, I just was absolutely nowhere near that

in terms of a prediction and it's wild in, you know, one of the most,

if not the most sort of reliable eras of Formula One car ever

that that could easily be the deciding factor of this championship.

It is, it is heartbreaking, Philando Norris, that that is what it is.

We're going to get onto that in a moment, but this is your top 10.

I'll run everyone through it in case for whatever reason you missed it.

So, Oscar Piastri, P1, Max Verstappen, P2.

That's the first time he's been on the podium for a while.

Isaac Hajar took P3.

George Russell, P4.

Alex Albon went from P15 to P5.

Insane. Ollie Berman, P6.

He went from the pit lane to points.

Massive performance from him as well.

Lance Strollen, 7th.

Fernando Alonzo, 8th.

Yuki Tanoda, 9th.

And Esteban Ocon, 10th.

What was your reaction to the top 10?

Well, firstly, obviously, the difference between the two McLarens

that I immediately thought, wow, that's a really bad day for Ferrari.

They're obviously embroiled in the battle, aren't they,

with sort of Red Bull and also Mercedes behind McLaren

in the constructors championship.

You've got Hamilton out through driver error.

You've got Leclerc out through driver error,

but the driver wasn't Leclerc.

It was Antonetti.

And so, yeah, that was my big takeaway.

Obviously, a brilliant day for Hajar in a series of races

where he's demonstrated his clear ability.

And that was great to see.

It was great to see him deliver on the promise

that he had behind the wheel of a Formula 2 car as well.

Let's start by talking about Hajar.

We will get on to McLaren,

but I want to start with something that's a little bit more positive.

And Hajar is ridiculously positive, isn't it?

How good has he been?

And also, bearing in mind that he kept that fourth position

for that whole race.

He did so well to keep that, didn't he?

He had one of those races where it was all just sort of happening around him.

And he behaved like a veteran in that, you know,

there were experienced drivers going off,

been a drizzle, been a rain, multiple safety car restarts.

But you never actually really heard too much about him,

apart from, you know, Alex Jake's journey in Palmer.

Coming back to the fact, he was still there.

He was still delivering.

He dealt with it all beautifully and just capitalized

on what was an ace qualifying performance.

You know, I keep on checking in.

We love to check in with Alan Permane

because you always get a sensible, straight answer,

and he doesn't mince his words.

He's super impressed with Isaac Hajar.

And there's a man who's seen a lot of young racing drivers.

And I can see why.

You know, there were days in a Formula 2 car

where he just took off and disappeared from the field.

You know, a field that included some of the current crop.

We've made it through to Formula One as well.

And he's demonstrating that.

But what impresses me most about him

is back in the Formula 2 days,

he would lose his head in the car quite a lot.

You'd hear it over the radio.

You'd sometimes see it with an occasional rash move on track.

As soon as he's made it to Formula One,

they had a couple of sort of slightly louder races

right at the beginning.

And obviously, the big error he made at the beginning of the year,

which is well behind him now in Melbourne.

But he's calmed it right down

and just become this sort of consummate professional delivering,

which is super impressive.

He really deserved that podium.

Yeah, at that age, that is super impressive, isn't it?

And Alex, this is ridiculous what I'm about to say.

But Isaac Hadjar has scored more points today

than the Red Bull car,

the second Red Bull car has all season.

I know, I know.

And he launches RB up the championship as well.

He's now in the top 10 of the driver championship standings.

RB are now a couple of points, I think,

off sixth and about what, 10, 15 points off Williams in fifth.

I mean, Alex Albans delivering as well, right?

So that's going to be a difficult move to make.

But it's really impressive.

Across the garage before this race,

I mean, he had a bit of a difficult time this time out.

But Liam Lawson was also in the previous two races as well.

So it's been a decent point scoring run for RB,

it must be said, in an upward trajectory.

Is that racing Bulls car faster than that Red Bull car,

do you think?

If you put Max Verstappen in that racing Bulls car, would he win?

Everybody knows how tricky the Red Bull is to drive.

I think Max Verstappen could deliver podium performances at least in the RB.

Yeah, well, we've just seen Isaac Hadjar do it.

And I'm not about to say that Isaac Hadjar is going to out drive Max Verstappen

in the same car yet at this stage in his Formula One career.

I think the strength of the RB is it works in all conditions.

And I think you saw that again today.

You know, a little bit of drizzle, tricky moments on track.

They're doing more racing wheel-to-wheel around Zambor than normally.

And the balance of it's so approachable

that those two young drivers can handle as the conditions change

on different tires and so on and so forth.

Is it peak quicker than the Red Bull?

Probably not.

Over a season of changeable conditions.

You know, are the two cars as they stand now

capable of delivering a similar level of result?

Maybe, yeah.

That's really interesting, isn't it?

That the one question that we have been hounded with on our social media

is how long is it going to take for Isaac Hadjar to be Max Verstappen's teammate?

And does he want to be?

That's an interesting question,

because it feels like he doesn't want to be.

I mean, and he would be pretty smart to not want to be, I think, at this stage.

You know, you've got that RB car that's decent through this phase of the year.

And you know, all of those drivers at the level of the phase of his career

where Hadjar is at the moment are still looking at conserving their career,

you know, year on year on year.

You're not looking at sort of multiple year contracts

and security into the future for those guys just yet.

So, you know, another year in RB land doesn't look stupid at all for Hadjar at this stage,

whereas being thrown into the Red Bull is a massive decision for him.

You know, when you look at what's going on,

even with Yuki Sonoda, who I really thought might be the driver who stopped that second seat

rot a little bit, and it's proving not to be so.

If I was Isaac Hadjar, and I look, I know I'm not,

but I would stay where he is in that car and just enjoy himself.

You can easily say that, you know, if a car's capable of getting a podium,

obviously, it's a bit of a different story, though,

because we're moving, obviously, into a big regulation change through the next phase

and will RB be able to deliver the car in 2026 that Red Bull will be able to.

You know, you don't know if those two teams are going to be the same entity

into the next stage of regulations as they are now.

But as he sits, you know, if Hadjar today was offered the last nine races

in the Red Bull in the space of Yuki Sonoda,

not that they're making any noise that he will be, but it would be, yeah,

it would be one that you think he might actually go, you know what,

I'd love to finish the season here and rack up some more podiums, potentially.

Did you see that he was posing with the trophy with all of the team behind him,

and he broke the trophy?

Yeah, I know.

To be honest, I caught it on social media.

It's not good.

That is, it's amazing how much that happens.

At least it's not a Hungarian Grand Prix, meticulously hand-painted vase.

That's true.

If you wanted to break one trophy, which one would you break?

I think they'll probably break the Lego one that Nico Hülkenberg.

At least I can rebuild it then.

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And also because it's Lego, I feel like it sort of would look all right broken.

It would, yeah.

I think you could get one with it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Exactly.

So Isaac Hadjar, brilliant story.

He's absolutely buzzing.

Somebody that is not going to be buzzing at all is going to be Lando Norris.

And arguably, Alex, we were robbed of what could have been a ridiculous end to that race.

Well, what could have been a ridiculous end to the championship, right?

So would Norris have caught Piastri through the end of that race

and put a move on him around Zanvo?

Yeah, not sure.

Might have.

It could have been a good race to the end.

I'm thinking Spa-esque, you know.

Very close at the line potentially.

Would the move have happened, may have done, may not.

But what I'm mourning slightly more is the 34-point gap they now take through.

Because what that means is that they now drive differently for the rest of the year.

So you've got now Piastri with a buffer to maintain to Lando Norris.

You've got now Norris to a degree with nothing to lose.

But of course, the papaya rules and everything that goes along with not running into your teammate

who's leading World Championship to go with it.

And it would have been lovely to see just the thermostat slowly turned up on that battle

as we made it through the final nine races of the year.

Now that championship has a different complexion, doesn't it?

Because you've got more than a win between the two of them,

which means engine mode management for Piastri,

which means you can afford to maybe finish second

when he couldn't afford to finish second to Norris before.

And I think that's a real shame for us as sort of a neutral viewer.

It is. Do you think it's over now?

Well, there have been similar gaps between them in earlier phases of the championship.

I mean, if you look after Melbourne, you had similar point gaps.

Absolutely not.

The same thing, well, equally the same thing could happen to Oscar Piastri in one race.

We could go to Monza, he could have any kind of failure in Monza

or not be able to give a fuel sample after the race or whatever could happen.

So it's never over until the flag drops on the final race.

But there are ways that Formula One teams and drivers at a professional level

can mitigate risk.

There's always a cost in terms of total speed to that.

And when you don't have to put it out on the line

as leading the championship by a less than third place number of points to your teammate,

all of a sudden you can start to move the dial slightly back towards

mitigating risk, which is what robs you as a viewer of those big moments sometimes.

The thing that I think a lot of people are thinking,

this is definitely what I'm thinking,

is that Oscar Piastri is not the sort of guy that goes out there

and makes stupid mistakes on the whole.

He's cool, he's calm, he's collected, he knows exactly what he needs to do.

So you sort of think, oh, there's not going to be a mistake here

that's going to level it out again.

But I think, you know, when you ask for predictions from people

about where this championship was going to finish and how it was going to end,

you kind of hear a general, oh, it might finish in Qatar,

it might finish in Abu Dhabi.

But most people fall, right, when pushed on which one of those two McLaren drivers

is going to take the overall championship victory home,

it's normally Piastri people are falling in the direction of.

And I think it's because of that, I think it's because, you know,

if you lined all the drivers up and said,

I want you to do 35 laps making no mistakes,

and you know, we're going to tell you jokes over the radio or something, you know,

we're going to, we're going to.

I'd like to see that.

Yeah, exactly.

Or we're going to, you know, just throw curveballs at you for 35 laps.

Even of the current crop of the world's best,

Piastri would be the driver who's going to hit his numbers,

isn't he, every time, deliver the potential of the car.

And he's of this new hyper calm prepared from eight years old era of driver

who've been practicing metronomic delivery since they were children,

right? And that is why he has that, he has that way about him.

Only caveat that I think I might have for you is that

Lando having nothing to lose could really play into his style of working.

We know what Lando is like.

We know he can get overly emotional sometimes.

We know that maybe sometimes he doesn't necessarily thrive under the pressure.

He's sort of improving that anyway as the season goes on.

But maybe this is where he's going to just come to his own.

He can definitely, you know, and he also seems to have got his head around,

you know, some of the challenges in the car.

We've been to some sort of more front limited circuits

where Lando's still been strong.

That was, that's been one of his weaknesses behind the wheel of the McLaren.

And I totally agree with you that having that kind of nothing to lose mentality

suits Lando massively.

Now all he's got to do is deliver that every weekend.

But he's also got to hope that something goes awry for Piastri.

Because, you know, when you look at the number of second places

that Piastri can afford through what's actually quite a small number of races now

without still not seeding the championship league.

You know, it's seven points, isn't it, between winning a race and finishing second in a race.

That's multiple races now.

Piastri can afford to just comfortably go, yeah, well done, Lando.

You were the quickest in this one.

Am I taking all of the steam out of this championship?

I'm definitely not intending to.

Anything could happen.

But that's the reality.

That's the reality of the situation.

It's, I think the reason why everybody thought, what a race that was.

That was an insane race.

That was wicked to watch.

But I feel a bit down is that you're right.

Is that?

It is that.

And that picture of Lando Norris sat in that sand dune contemplating

his life is going to be, you could frame it because that probably sums up this season.

I cannot believe that it is one little engine failure that has robbed us of this title race.

Yeah, I know.

Mercedes engine, Mercedes engine failure.

I just, what's happening with Mercedes engines because I feel like this is a parallel universe.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely wild for Norris, you know, and he just did not fancy going,

you can get back from there.

By the way, it's a bit confusing.

I have stood on the side of the racetrack at Zandvoort before.

I'm not going to give you the background as to why, but it wasn't as a fan.

So you've ended up there as a driver.

Yeah, not my fault.

But yes, but you can get back from there.

But you know, both he and Leclerc just not feeling the need.

Bless, Charles.

I mean, I think you might have been listening.

Did you catch him listening on the phone?

Yeah, what was he listening to?

I think he was trying to get commentary of the race.

No.

And find out and find out what was going on.

It's either that or he's got all the voice notes from his WhatsApp group

and he's like, right, what are they saying?

Like, you know, you're trying to listen to your voice notes.

Either that or he's trying to get Google Maps to tell him how to go back to the pits.

How do I get back to the pits and stuff?

But he's only down at, he's only down at turn one, isn't he?

Or something down, I don't know where he is down at turn three.

Yeah.

Am I right in thinking that in 2023, the same thing happened

and he was sat there on a deck chair, not a deck chair, but like a deck.

Yeah.

So they've been there've been plenty of traffic.

It does tend to be Zambor.

You're you're incredibly close to the beach,

but it's not always beach like weather, especially today.

So yeah, I know exactly.

Oh, I did feel them both.

Well, let's take a quick break.

When we're back, we will talk about Ferrari and what a nightmare

situation that is for for Ferrari fans.

Ferrari fans, we are sorry.

Right, we'll see in a sec.

If you've been following the Fast Nucuras for a while,

you might remember us talking about the F1 exhibition

when it was in London last season.

Well, they've now taken it on the road, everybody.

And this time it's in Amsterdam.

And to be quite honest, Christian,

I'm surprised you're actually still here sat at your desk

and you're not on your way over to Amsterdam

because you absolutely loved it when it was in the UK, didn't you?

I really loved it.

My favorite thing they did is they had like a grid

and they had the drivers sat in the positions

that they're sat in on the car like hovering

and made you realize just how low to the floor they were.

They also had some, you know me, I love a classic livery.

They had some fantastic old liveries and old cars as well.

So it's one of those places I could have happily

had just spent all day.

And really it is for everybody,

whether you're a sort of long lover of F1 like Christian

or whether you're slightly newer fan to the sport,

you would absolutely love it.

And also you often see things being described

as sort of immersive, don't you?

Everyone says it's immersive.

And then it sort of turns out to be nothing special.

But the F1 exhibition makes you feel

like you were inside an F1 Geeks brain, like your brain.

That's how my brain looks, yeah.

Maybe not everyone would want to be in your brain necessarily,

but it is well called.

It is so cool.

You can basically see the past, the present,

and the future of F1 all in one place.

And the cars are so close.

It's astonishing.

It really is.

And what's great about the F1 exhibition is they

so they make it bespoke to the places they take it.

So in London, they had a simulator set up

to drive around Silverstone.

In Amsterdam, you can try and do a fastest lap

around Zambor, which is such a cool track.

That's cool.

And then there's a whole room dedicated

to Dutch racing history.

I mean, and that's, you know, such a history in F1.

So there's the Dutch drive room,

which looks at the evolution of Zambor

from the first Grand Prix there in the 50s.

All the way through to the return of the Dutch Grand Prix in 2021.

They've got a special lineup of cars and memorabilia on display,

including the multiple race winning Ferrari F10,

which Fernando Alonso and Felipe Massa drove in 2010.

What a title battle 2010 was, by the way.

And Max Verstappen's 2021 championship

winning RB16B unbelievable.

Like it's such a cool lineup of stuff.

You definitely can't have the F1 exhibition

in Amsterdam without featuring Max, could you?

What a great idea for a little trip, by the way,

because Amsterdam's a gorgeous city.

Absolutely, that's a great trip.

So it is running until the 7th of September 2025.

So if you're heading to the Dutch Grand Prix

and fancy adding even more F1 to the trip,

or you happen to live nearby, we've checked the stats.

And we know that some of you listening are in fact Dutch.

So, you know, get yourselves over there.

Hello, Dutch people.

Hello.

The F1 exhibition is really close

to Amsterdam's central station as well.

So it's really easy to get to on public transport.

Basically, there's no excuses.

Just head to f1exhibition.com forward slash Amsterdam

and get your tickets.

Before we get back to today's episode

of the Fast and the Curious,

if all of this formula one talk

has got you craving a trip to a Grand Prix,

good news, we can help.

Or rather, our friends at Gulliver's Travel can help.

If you're a regular listener,

you all have heard us talk about them by now.

We genuinely think these guys are absolutely brilliant

at getting you to a Grand Prix

and removing all faff

from getting to and from a Grand Prix.

There are so many difference travel and ticket packages

throughout the whole season,

including the final race of the season at Abu Dhabi

and the way the championship's

hotting up at the moment.

That could be an absolute cracker.

What an event to be at.

I know it feels like a long way off,

but trust me, there will be thousands of people

trying to get to that race.

So you might as well let Gulliver's put in

all the work for you so you can relax.

If you head to their website,

gulliverstravel.co.uk,

you will see your whole trip laid out in front of you.

You've got your four night hotel stays in Dubai,

Abu Dhabi or Yass Island,

and that includes breakfast,

something to me that is as important as the race itself,

knowing I'm going to get up

and have coffee and a good breakfast waiting for me.

That's important.

You also get your grandstand tickets

and someone from Gulliver's

will be with you every step of the way

to make sure the only thing you have to worry about

is enjoying the Grand Prix.

So a reminder of that website,

gulliverstravel.co.uk.

There was also a link to that website

in the description of this very episode.

This is an advert for eBay.

Oh, guys, don't you think car buying

has become a pretty dull experience?

I personally cannot think of anything less exciting,

but on eBay, behind every car and part

is a story waiting to be shared.

Like this guy I read about

who bought a 2020 Porsche Cayman GT4 on eBay.

It was well loved.

I mean, there are plenty of Caymans

in great condition on eBay,

but this one, it needed a lot of work.

So after this guy gets a great deal on his dream car,

he rebuilds it.

The whole thing with all of these parts

that he found on eBay,

performance breaks, suspension, body panels,

the absolute works.

Next thing you know,

this nearly scrapped Cayman

was out there on the track

as a full blown race car.

You're ready to go, daily driver.

Your next Resto mod.

That means restoration plus modification,

if you didn't know.

eBay has thousands of cars

and is the largest online selection

of vehicle parts and accessories.

eBay, things, people love.

AI is transforming customer service.

It's real and it works.

And with FIN,

we've built the number one AI agent

for customer service.

We're seeing lots of cases

where it's solving up to 90%

of real queries for real businesses.

This includes the real world complex stuff

like issuing a refund or cancelling an order.

And we also see it

when FIN goes up against competitors.

It's top of all the performance benchmarks,

top of the G2 leaderboard.

And if you're not happy,

we'll refund you up to a million dollars,

which I think says it all.

Check it out for yourself at fin.ai.

Big news.

Boost Mobile is now sending experts nationwide

to deliver and set up customers new phones

at home or work.

Wait, we're going on tour?

Not a tour.

We're delivering and setting up customers phones

so it's easier to upgrade.

Let's get in the tour bus and hit the road.

No, not a tour bus.

It's a regular car.

We use to deliver and set up customers phones

at home or work.

Are you a groupie on this tour?

We deliver and set up phones.

It's not a tour.

Oh, you're definitely a groupie.

Introducing Storedador.

Switch and get a new device with experts setup

and delivery wherever you're at.

Delivery available for select devices purchased

at boostmobile.com.

Boost Mobile is now sending experts nationwide

to deliver and set up customers new phones.

Wait, we're going on tour?

We're delivering and setting up customers phones.

It's not a tour.

Not with that attitude.

Introducing Storedador.

Switch and get a new device with experts setup

and delivery.

Delivery available for select devices purchased

at boostmobile.com.

Let's get into it then.

Let's talk about Ferrari.

Let's start with Charles Leclerc.

He was going really well as well, wasn't he, Alex?

He was having a good race.

He was racing really well.

It was really exciting.

And then he was clipped by Kimmy Antonelli.

Yeah.

The Ferrari looked tricky to drive.

But Charles was doing a good job of it.

You know, it was whacking.

I spotted it whacking the floor everywhere,

which I think might be something to do

with what caught out Lewis Hamilton

to make a tiny little excuse for him later in the race.

But I mean, you know, sometimes as a driver,

you just get wiped out.

And there's really nothing you could do about it, right?

And that's what happened.

It was a bit of a bizarre move from Antonelli.

You know, you can say that he's,

yeah, he's a rookie in Formula One.

But that was a rookie in racing kind of move, wasn't it, from him?

Down at the bottom, you've watched,

we've watched racing there for years.

Formula Three drivers try that one,

pop out at the top of the hill there in turn three,

and eventually an inevitable clash with the driver

they're trying to overtake.

No, I've not done that one.

No, no, I've not done that one.

No, but it was a really bizarre move from Antonelli.

And it reminded me a little bit of when he took out

the Stappen on the first lap in Austria.

It was, you're right.

Where it's just like, occasionally he has these moments

where he just, it's a little bit of,

just a little bit of red mist.

And it's quite far through the season of his,

of his early phases of Formula One to be doing that.

To be making a mistake like that.

I know it's really disappointing to see.

What I was supposed to do when we started this Ferrari segment

was talk to you or cue in a video from Greg James,

right?

Because he was very excited by this Ferrari double DNF.

So this is a video from him.

We'll stick it up so people can see watching on YouTube,

but also you can listen to it now.

Hi Fasting, curious as what a great race this is.

It's so good that the season is back up and running.

I'll be back on the podcast next episode.

I hope you're enjoying the debrief.

Just wanted to pop up and say that it was a Ferrari

double, did not finish today.

Or if you want to do it in Italian way.

It's awful.

What do you make of that accent, Alex?

It wouldn't be one that I would attempt,

but who's to argue with Greg?

Yes, unfortunate for Ferrari.

Unfortunate for Louis Hamilton,

who came back with a spring in his step after the summer break

said, I'm relaxed.

I've got a whole different approach with this Ferrari.

He'd been on Vogue?

Yeah, all of that.

All of that.

Done a disappearing act as he does in the summer break

and then come back with lots of stories about how he'd been,

I don't know, doing Louis Hamilton things.

He goes on these adventures, doesn't he?

And then he goes to the North Pole and stuff.

It all very impressive.

And then comes back and just delivered and qualified.

But then it was kind of uncomfortable to watch that error

because it was kind of a bit of an all on his own sort of error.

At the top of turn three, the Ferrari did look tricky in there.

But you've got all other 19 drivers managed to sort the car out

even with the circuit a little bit slippery.

And it's just clumsy stuff, isn't it, for Louis at the top of T3?

Was it his fault then?

Yes.

Yeah, it just looks like a driver error.

And from a driver who earlier on in his career

would have walked a wet race

and would have said things like,

as soon as the rain falls, I know I'm going to win.

And then backed it up by doing that.

It was a really bizarre one for Louis Hamilton.

And I kind of hurt to watch a little bit.

As somebody who knows how brilliant a driver Louis is

and has seen him from obviously the mid 2000s do his thing, right?

It's horrific to watch.

It's horrific.

What do you think it is down to?

Is it simply a confidence thing with Louis

where he had a tricky season last season

where everyone knew he was going to Ferrari

but he was having to stay at Mercedes, blah, blah, blah.

Always going to be difficult.

It's come to Ferrari, new team, trying to get used to everything,

trying to get used to his engineer, trying to get used to the car.

And he's just lost his confidence.

Or do you think it's more than that?

Ferrari, his stint at Ferrari is starting to remind me

a little bit of Sebastian Vettel's stint at Ferrari

where you get a driver who in a certain era of car

was had this massively dominant phase.

Hamilton then gets in and changes team

in a subtly different era of car.

And it just requires a sequence of different inputs from him.

And he's scrambling around trying to make

his style of driving fit the car.

And he's been around long enough

that we know what Louis Hamilton's style of driving is.

He breaks really deep.

He has great control of the rear axle of the car.

And then he makes it work in the mid-corner and gets out.

It's a really attacking style of driving.

I've said it before in another podcast.

This era of car doesn't really reward it.

But what you're seeing is Hamilton being a good enough driver

to make efforts to meet the style of driving that he needs to.

But he's of a stage of his career.

And I think where he's been driving with a certain muscle memory for so long

that that's proving now difficult is my read on the situation.

But you need so much data to know what's really going on.

It's unlikely to be the same thing, circuit to circuit, corner to corner.

Leclerc has clearly just developed over his time with Ferrari,

a muscle memory for the development of that car and how he wants to drive.

So he's doing a better job of managing it.

But yeah, I think that's what's going on with Louis Hamilton.

Why it was tough to see is because he,

you know, every so often, you know, trying to sprint qualifying early in the year,

whatever the moment is, he'll just overcome it momentarily, you know,

and put a lap in that's just right.

And then and then his base speed and talent is such that it's not quite good.

It's excellent, you know.

And so that's the that's the difficulty with watching it

because you know it's still there.

He just can't translate it.

It's not happening.

It's just not happening.

And it feels like it's one thing after another.

I can't catch a lucky break, can he?

Yeah.

There's a lot of management to do as well with that car.

You know, that that car is not a particularly brilliantly designed racing car, you know,

of naturally, you know, Ferrari doing incredible job of building a racing car.

But it's sort of in comparison to the McLaren.

When you look at how much the drivers drive around,

lift coast for fuel, lift coast for the plank, manage this, manage that.

It is it is requiring a tremendous amount.

They're really trying to squeeze the lemon pretty hard.

On getting the ability out of the drivers to manage the car through the race.

2026, then, do you have confidence that things will get better?

Oh, that is a that is a dice roll.

That is a dice roll.

It's going to be it's going to be an engine formula.

You know, it looks like it's going to be an engine formula.

You're hearing at the moment, hearing everything from drivers will lift

halfway down the straight to preserve battery energy to

the cars will do almost 400 kilometers per hour.

So you just I'm trying to understand the simulation data of what is actually

occurring in the development of those cars is difficult to sort of

blanket predict the runners and riders is is almost impossible as well.

But when you look at the core competences of Ferrari, right in aerodynamic,

in power unit management with electrification,

I mean, and the backup they have in terms of, you know, facility to develop a car,

then there is no reason why it shouldn't be potentially championship winning.

Fiona has said, what is up with Ferrari?

Are they OK?

And Alex says, I feel like we're watching live as Ferrari mess up the greatest

driver pairing that we have seen in decades.

What do you think about those two comments?

It's a great driver pairing.

You know, you look you look at the Clare his raw speed, Hamilton's raw speed ability to drive the race.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, there are a lot of other great pairings on the grid.

I think Williams have a great have a great pairing.

You look through the field, you know, the two current McLaren drivers

for what McLaren need at the moment that are two drivers who are not only quick,

but are prepared to play the game and kick the ball about between themselves.

That that's a great pairing.

But this Ferrari pairing is iconic.

Yeah, it is iconic.

It is iconic.

But, you know, Ferrari put the big names put the big names in the car.

And yeah, the simple the simple fact is across the the season,

the engineering has not been there to back it up.

And these cars, you know, this this era of of F one is so efficiency dominated,

you know, in the power unit and in the management of the ride height against the floor and everything

like doesn't matter who you want in, you know, if you can't get the car close to the floor

and it's not making the downforce, there is enough time and energy in all of the other teams.

They will still, you know, Lewis Hamilton, Charlotte Clair great, but they're not magic,

you know, they'll they have to sort of overcome the the abilities and foibles of the car.

When I go and get a coffee in the morning, it's from like this little coffee van right

where I live.

And there's this girl that serves the coffee and she's a massive Ferrari fan.

So every sort of like every Friday, just before the weekend,

we're always like, oh, what do you think is going to happen this weekend?

Every time I see her, she just looks more and more sad.

I think she's just she's just slowly like just losing faith in Ferrari.

And I just want to go there on a Monday, Alex and be like, it happened, it was great,

but it's just not happening.

Monza's next Monza's next Ferrari Ferrari must be quick.

And actually, that's a point, isn't it?

I was just busy sort of checking because, you know, I'm interested in the constructors

championship battle behind McLaren.

But and it's a moment as well.

It's a moment for Fred Vassar.

It's a moment for Ferrari and everything that's going on as well, you know,

in the in the governance of that team, obviously Fred staying with the team.

But, you know, going to Monza after, you know, a double DNF.

Or be it a double DNF where the cars were not, you know, entirely uncompetitive, right?

There was some speed.

You know, they were they were clearly behind the staff and they were behind the two McLarens,

but they were in the they're in the hunt with Merck, you know, they're not nowhere.

But yeah, it's going to be a very, very important low downforce package, one assumes

that they will throw at that Ferrari before the before the Italian Grand Prix.

That is going to be exciting because Lewis Hamilton first time at the Italian Grand Prix

racing for Ferrari.

Let's just hope you pull something out the bag.

We're moving on to a different section called Betty's radio radar.

OK, OK, is Fernando Alonso by chance going to turn up in Betty's radio radar?

No, I haven't written him down.

Why? What did he do?

I just love Fernando Alonso just hammering the strategy team from the car.

I know whether he's whether he's whether he's right or whether he's right or whether he's wrong.

He just seems sort of permanently frustrated at the moment,

which which is a little bit of radio gold.

I'm sure he goes and smooths it over afterwards,

because they seem to start from square one again before the start of every Grand Prix.

But, you know, I'm in traffic again.

Why do you always do this to me, Paul Blake?

Paul Blake. Well, there's no room for him in this today,

because Carlos Sainz took it all up.

He's taken the whole section up, Alex.

My favorite being he's just so stupid.

Oh, my God, this guy is always the same guy about Liam Lawson.

Brutal. Brutal.

And then by the word of the law, though,

I mean, when you when you look at the actual incident,

when you look at the actual incident between Sainz and Lawson.

So what was really interesting is after being an absolute loon at the beginning

and pulling a brilliant move off to take second place from Landon Norris,

Max Verstappen actually then let Norris back around the outside of him.

What I thought was relatively easily down down in turn one.

But then you look at the move between Sainz and Lawson and the word of the law is that

if you're up alongside someone on the outside,

you have to be completely alongside wheel to wheel

if you want to own space on the outside of the corner, right?

Yeah.

Lawson is entitled to open to open the steering there,

which is why Sainz gets the penalty.

So I don't think he's got too much complaining to do about that particular

about that particular penalty.

Really? Because when I looked at it, I think I saw it like Lawson went off the racing line,

went wide and therefore it felt really harsh for Carlos Sainz to get it.

So when he when he lets the steering go in the middle of the corner.

Yeah.

So that's what so that's what the stewards are reacting to.

So those racing regs are published now.

They are there are a sequence of racing guidelines.

And that is and that's why they've given the and that's why they've given the penalty to Sainz.

I think they're feeling quite a lot of pressure to conform to those racing regulations.

Now they've published them, which is an interesting outcome.

But that is why the penalty goes that way.

I think it was pretty harsh penalty for 10 seconds for that one.

But that is the sort of while not necessarily saying the penalty was correct or not,

that will be the reasoning that the steward would give.

Carlos Sainz thought it was very harsh as well.

Because on the radio, he said, are you joking?

You're joking.

I mean, it is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life.

And have you heard that now the FIA won't speak to him?

Apparently they won't.

Apparently they're avoiding him.

So you're of your again as a driver, something I've experienced,

you're not they're not obligated to talk to you.

So you can request a meeting or indeed you can lodge an appeal.

But they're you know, if you don't want to appeal the decision,

I believe that they're not obligated to talk to you.

They've made their decision and and and that's it.

So it's you know, these things it's kind of like a it's a judicial process.

So it has to have a bit of process to it.

And if you can just as the driver demand a meeting with the stewards every week,

then I think there'd be a queue outside the stewards door and they never get to go home.

But live in there.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

But yeah, I can I can understand why I can understand why Carlos is upset.

But that that's the students call as a driver.

When you watch something like that play out,

do you find it irritating that something like that's happened?

When I watch the drivers talking on the radio,

or when do I when I watch the stewards making a not making a call on that?

Yeah, that's what irritated me slightly more this weekend

was the non call between George Russell and Charlotte Claire.

Because I feel like the, you know, we could we could really use with the way the penalty system

works so often, you know, with another stop to do.

And as it happened, it played out that way this time, you know,

you've got another stop to do under a safety car at the end of the race,

where a driver can potentially fairly or unfairly, depending on your perspective,

take the penalty during a pit stop at a lower cost under the safety car.

If you then defer that decision to the end of the race for,

you know, there's a lot of laps still to go when when that plays out.

If the stewards then defer that decision to the end of the race,

then what are the offshoots of that?

Does that end up rolling into the next race?

Of course, potentially a penalty for then the Claire that he takes into Monza,

you know, sat behind the wheel of a Ferrari.

Yeah, it's one of those things where I'd rather in some way rather have

the wrong decision quickly than the right decision after the race.

I don't know. Maybe maybe that's maybe that's an unfair thing to say,

but maybe an imperfect decision during the race might have been, you know,

better at least from the perspective of the Claire,

who could have taken a bigger penalty, but could have taken it then.

Yeah, and just do it then in that race.

Just done it.

This is sport, though, Alex.

I mean, football, VAR, bloody hell.

Like it's just it is ridiculous.

People are trying to make everything perfect and therefore overanalyze anything.

And anyway, there we go.

I could be here all day talking to you about this.

I think the stewards maybe also sometimes feel like it's Xambor.

It's kind of claustrophobic.

The crowd are passionate.

It's a big move in a constructors championship battle, bit of contact.

I wonder if they feel like letting that go till after the race means

that they can get a statement from both drivers, of course,

with their team with their team members.

It means that they can put a bit of he said he said she said in the stewards report

and also just takes a little bit of an edge out of the steam of everything

for the stewards when they make that kind of decision.

Now, in my opinion, that's not really what that kind of the way in which

that kind of decision should be deferral made.

You know, you read the book, you watch the move,

and then you make your best call of it based around what the rules are,

what the published rules are, you know?

Yeah, definitely.

Do you have any other business?

Is there anything else that you want to talk about that you noticed

from that race that we've missed?

What about Ollie Bearman driving from the pit lane?

And also, yeah, Haas is kind of really bizarre, super long strategy

that I thought, what earth are they doing?

Everybody was like, what are they doing?

Why are they doing that?

So they have this cube behind them in the middle of the race,

and I'm like, even if the safety car comes up now,

they've still ruined this because they're not going to get in and out again.

As it happened, it then turns into a two-stopper for all,

and they consolidate that.

Honestly, it worked out for them, but it was a great strategy call.

Was it a great strategy call or was it luck?

Okay, I'm going to call it a great strategy call because

it all strategies risk and reward, right?

So when you take a big risk and you're going to start from the pit lane

and change the specification of the car, and then it works out,

in some way, that's good strategy, right?

There are always, so there were risks to doing that.

If there hadn't have been the safety car,

then they would have just fallen to the back of the field.

But it's a nothing to lose call.

It works out, and there's more skill to that than absolutely nothing.

I enjoyed it.

I enjoyed Fernando Alonso calling the strategy and going,

pit me now and undercut all of these guys as well in the middle of the race.

That made me laugh.

Excellent.

Fernando Alonso is brilliant.

You are right.

He's brilliant on the radio.

And also, Lance Stroll, 7th.

I missed that completely.

I feel like I just completely forget about Lance Stroll.

Sorry, Lance.

He was another one who benefited from that safety car at the end.

And after dropping it in qualifying, yeah,

Lance Stroll finds himself 7th.

He does this every so often.

He'd been having such a, well, call it an out of sorts weekend.

He'd been having a not very good weekend up until then,

and then goes and scoops some points up.

Yeah, he'll take that.

He'll take that.

And also, just F1 Academy news.

Shout out to Nina Gaidman who won her first F1 Academy race.

Have you seen this, Alex?

This story is mad.

So last year, she was a wild card entry.

She was declared unfit to drive for FP2 on Friday.

I think she was ill.

She recovered from that illness when her first ever race,

it was on her birthday and it was in front of her home crowd.

That is impressive.

F1 Academy is on my list to catch up with tonight.

We've had a weekend of it and I can't wait to watch that.

That's great.

I have really enjoyed calling a little bit of F1 Academy.

I forgot you did that.

Yeah, you did.

Yes.

That's cool.

So I really enjoyed calling it and congratulation.

So it's great.

It's great to see it going strength to strength.

And also taking the top, obviously no Formula 3 and Formula 2 this weekend.

So taking top support series billing, which is super cool as well.

Congratulations to Nina as well because she was just in tears on the podium.

It was just amazing.

We've had some good old podiums this weekend, Alex.

It's been great.

It's been awesome.

Isaac Hadjar jumping out of the car.

Any other business moment because there was a moment,

I don't know if you spotted it before he broke the trophy,

where Isaac Hadjar jumped out of the car and went,

I'm on the podium.

This is amazing.

I'm in Formula 1.

Where do I go?

And he kind of like,

and he kind of had to look around because they'd stopped them weirdly on the front straight,

hadn't they?

Yeah.

And he kind of went,

where are the team?

I'm supposed to hug the team.

Where are the team?

And they were, and they were over.

Yeah, exactly.

Which was really, which was really fun as well.

Must have been wild for him.

So he's broken the trophy.

He couldn't find where his team were.

He didn't know where to go.

And then he sat in that cool down room with Oscar Piastri and Max for supper.

And he must be thinking, oh my God, this is wild.

Honestly, he's, I had a long sit down interview with him back in Saudi Arabia.

And he's got this vibe on air of being sort of quite like serious.

He's actually incredibly dryly funny.

Is he?

And a right little character when you get going.

So, you know, and once you've sat with him for 20 minutes and understood what makes him tick,

really, really likeable bloke, really, really nice guy.

So I made up for him, honestly, because he is intense about it all, but a really likeable chap.

I feel like he said, you know, at the beginning of the season, F1,

did that thing where they had to write on the blackboard thing?

And it was like, what's your favorite color or whatever?

And then it was like, what do you want to do this season?

And he wrote, get on the podium.

Wow.

Yes, Isaac.

Done.

You've made it.

And Alex, thank you so much for joining us on the Fast and the Curious.

You've been brilliant.

It's been great to get your insight into all of the different things from this weekend

because it has been pretty wild.

I hope you find your house, because you've been house hunting, haven't you?

We are trying to move house, which is why I'm a bit, as you can tell,

the sun is setting, which is why I'm a bit delayed, catching up with everything.

Thank goodness for catch up telly.

I didn't miss a single moment of Formula One this weekend.

So that's great.

Oh, I do have a question.

Do you texture dad being like, oh my God, that was epic.

Do you guys talk about it?

So working for F1 TV.

Do I text the competition and tell him loads of insight

about the Formula One race?

Absolutely not.

No, no, we occasionally catch up, to be honest.

Normally on an F1 weekend, we forget each other exists.

Until 9 p.m. at night and go, how was your broadcast?

Yeah, fine.

How was your broadcast?

That's so cute.

Which was, which is quite great.

Until he finds me on the grid and sort of brushes past me,

shoves me out of the way, but there we go.

Shoves you out of the way.

Don't need you in our broadcast.

I love it.

Thank you so much, Alex.

Thank you everybody for listening and watching The Fast and the Curious.

Just a reminder, please subscribe wherever you get your podcast

and also subscribe on YouTube as well and also follow us on social media.

It's at Fast, Curious Pod.

We love to hear from you.

Have a brilliant week.

We will be back later in the week.

We'll see you later.

Bye.

Go on, say bye, Alex.

Bye, bye.

If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant,

you know having a trusted partner makes all the difference.

That's why hands down you count on Granger for auto-reordering.

With on-time restocks, your team will have the cut-resistant gloves they need

at the start of their shift.

And you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand.

Call 1-800-GRANGER, click Granger.com or just stop by.

Granger for the ones who get it done.

If you're a smoker or vapor ready to make a change,

you really only need one good reason.

But with ZIN nicotine pouches, you'll discover many good reasons.

ZIN is America's number one nicotine pouch brand.

Plus, ZIN offers a robust rewards program.

There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction.

But there's only one ZIN.

Check out zin.com slash find to find ZIN at a store near you.

Warning, this product contains nicotine.

Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

Dutch Grand Prix Debrief 2025 | with Alex Brundle

About this episode

Plymouth P15

BMW F10

Porsche Cayman

Request an Explanation

Want to learn more?

Help improve this episode

More from The Fast and the Curious