Engaging Our Clients in Need With Helen Fradette [E058] - Speak Up! Effective Communication
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Engaging Our Clients in Need With Helen Fradette [E058] - Speak Up! Effective Communication
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This is the Aftermarket Radio Network.
Welcome to another episode of Speak Up Effective Communication.
I'm your host, Craig O'Neill, here on this show in the Aftermarket Radio Network, focusing
on our communication and leadership skills.
Me today is a very special guest from my local Toastmasters Club 404, Grand Rapids Toastmasters,
our newly elected president, Helen Ferdette.
Helen, thanks for joining me.
You're welcome.
It's great to be here, Craig.
This is going to be fun.
I really appreciate you agreeing to do this.
Helen's background is a little different than most of the guests that we bring
in on the show.
Not entirely.
We bring outside industry guests all the time.
Helen, your background, as I understand, began as a music teacher.
Yes.
And then you became an IT security professional.
Yes.
Quite a career shift indeed.
Interesting thing about it is that this was a tough transition, an interesting transition
as you were saying, and it was a challenging time.
Absolutely.
It's hard to put a resume together like that as well.
Yeah.
Well, this is why we want to have the conversation today because people going through major
transitions are a tough time in general.
That is one of the more challenging circumstances that we face in the automotive after
market.
We're dealing with clients who, whether we're aware of it or not, are in fact going through
a lot.
And a car repair, especially an expensive one in those times, can be truly a major barrier
in the life.
So Helen, when we talked before about this, you brought in some ideas that I thought
would be worthwhile to bring to this audience.
And for our loyal listeners today, I think you're really going to enjoy Helen's
perspective.
We don't always get to have a conversation with someone about how they perceive
our industry outside of a normal transaction that we're currently engaged in, which changes
the way the feedback can come in.
And so we're going to hear some of Helen's story here today.
And we're also going to introduce a really cool word of the day, brought in the word
solicitude.
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And we're back.
And the word of the day is solicitude, and that is a noun folks in it means care or concern
for someone's well-being.
A difficult thing for any of us on any occasion to always convey when we're in the middle
of a transaction.
And Helen, we're talking about auto repair today, and I think you just have some good
perspective for us.
So the story that you were describing, you received a gift.
But that gift had a bit of a catch.
Yes.
So during my transition between being a music teacher and my IT security career, I went
through a time where I was a single mother with three young children and had recently
been divorced.
So I was in need of a new vehicle or an updated vehicle to get my kids basically
from school every day to and from school and myself to find a job and or maintain a job
during this difficult time.
And the 1996 mini van that we had was dying to the point that it was no longer worth
putting any repairs into.
96 and what year was this, Helen?
2013, you say?
This was in 2011.
This was in 2011.
2011.
I got to know what kind of minivan was it.
Do you remember?
It was probably a Pontiac.
Do they make minvans?
I think I feel like it did.
I feel like that's what it was.
That might be what it was.
OK, they did then.
Yes, Pontiac transport.
Oh boy, yep, they had some issues.
OK, that helps our audience very much.
We're familiar with these things and it places us where we are in time.
So that's funny because I don't know much about cars.
The only ones I know are the ones that I own right now.
And it's basically what the makeup models are and what color they are.
And that's all that I know.
So I could tell you my minivan was gray.
That's about all that I remember about it.
And then, yes, so I was a member of my church at that time.
And I asked the deacons from the church to help me search for a car.
Not only because I didn't know much about cars or how to find one,
but I was exhausted from just simply my life circumstance at that time.
And one of the deacons gladly took that on as a challenge or as a request.
He ended up finding me a 2010 Park Avenue and worked out the price of it.
I think it was $5,000.
It had 90,000 miles on it.
And the $5,000 was a gift from someone from our church.
An anonymous church donor had gifted that to me for the purpose of getting my car.
So really thrilled, excited, went and I didn't need to drive it much.
Just thank you.
I needed a car to fit all my kids.
And I was set up nicely, ready to go.
However, with a car that is...
So I said it was a 2010.
Did I say 2010?
It was a 2001.
That makes more sense to me, yeah.
I also have dyslexia, which would be coming up right now
because you flip numbers and letters a lot in this when you have dyslexia.
I didn't know that.
Yes. So that would be why I said 2000.
So it was a 2001.
Is that a Pontiac?
Buick.
A Buick was definitely a Park Avenue and it was white and it was big.
And I felt safe and big and comfy.
So it wasn't long.
Maybe six months after I was gifted it that started needing repairs.
Yeah, I'm picturing those vehicles.
That was prime time of my career.
I've worked on a lot of those things, a lot of transmissions.
It's the 4065E.
It's four speed automatic in case you didn't know that.
Yeah, they had issues.
I'll say it back to you, but it'll be backwards from what you just said.
It's a bunch of soup and knowledge in our minds of what goes into those vehicles.
And so our listeners who are familiar with them as well, they're thinking like,
oh, cool, all right, charity vehicle.
And then a 90,000 mile 2001 Buick Park Avenue.
Anyone who's been in this industry for a while
immediately what's running through our head is all the normal things
that we can expect to fail on those vehicles around that time.
We're already seeing this barrier coming up down the road.
And it sounds like this is exactly where we're heading.
Yeah. And there's not only things that just fail, I'm assuming,
because they fail faulty, but you also just need that regular maintenance
and repair of whatever happens at the 100,000 miles.
And then the whatever the next 100, whatever a thousand miles it is or numbers.
There's the expected maintenance.
And then there's what we understand in our industry as pattern failures,
of which we would always caution and look out for, right?
Yes. That's coming with that type of vehicle.
Yes. So that set me into a, hey, I didn't have money to make a car payment.
And which means I also don't have money to make payments for unexpected maintenance.
Even my regular maintenance, even just oil change, I remember once
just trying to find a place that would change my oil for, you know,
30 to 40 bucks of, hey, I just need my oil change
and having to pay like $70 just for the whole thing in the air filter
and all this stuff and just very stressful.
So it's something that we often forget to us in the industry.
It always feels very routine.
It feels so routine and it feels normal and someone's got a car.
They have to take care of it.
Otherwise it gets more expensive.
So why wouldn't you like budget for this, right?
And that shouldn't be a challenge.
And we have to really stop and remember sometimes that even that,
even that the simple things in our minds are not always simple.
Yes, because having a car is one of those things that if you,
it's not as easy to explain a, well, if you're going to have a car,
you need to be able to, you know, pay for these maintenance
regular things that come with it.
Otherwise, maybe you shouldn't own a car.
Well, if I were to not own a car at that time in my life,
it would have probably meant that my children may have had
to not be able to live with me because I would not
have been able to get them to medical appointments,
to school every day.
That was at the fear of my mind.
Real life shattering fear. Yeah. Oh my gosh.
Yeah. Like, well, if you can't afford a car,
that means you can't take care of your kids.
Therefore, you can't afford your kids either.
So therefore, you know, it's just really, really stressful for a lot.
Yeah. Oh my goodness.
So this car did hit a problem, though, not just even maintenance,
but needed actual repairs as well.
Absolutely. Several times, many times.
So any time that I would need to repair,
something was going on with it, I would have to find a place
that was strategically located.
It didn't really matter about relationships of people that I had.
It was the closest one that was to my house
where I was living at that time that I could walk.
I could drive it and have it be where I worked on.
I could walk home or walk the kids back with me.
And or that it was next to a place that had maybe a mall
that I could take the kids to the mall
and we could spend a couple hours there while it was being repaired.
Lots of logistics, figuring those things out.
There was always in that conversation of, you know,
here's the first analysis of what needs to get done.
And I would say, you know, what's the bare minimum
that I need to get to keep it going?
It's an older car.
I just need that to keep moving.
And usually I would get good what I thought was good advice
and be able to figure out a middle place that we could land.
I would say there wasn't a lot of like price
negotiating that I was aware of.
It was more of service cutting out.
Well, you need these four things.
You can only afford this amount.
Therefore, we recommend these two things that we do.
Now, let me ask this, Helen,
you're describing what I think is a very common scenario
that often goes unknown inside of the shop
is knowing the industry and especially the people in my network
and many of our loyal listeners here,
they'd be hearing the story and it's like, oh, my God,
I would have loved to be able to help.
That's narrow. If I had only known that someone was really
teetering on like, oh, like this is barely affordable
because of circumstances, did you ever bring it up?
Or did you feel like it was even something
that could be brought up into the equation?
No, I never brought up that I was in need
to the service people that were servicing my car.
I did not know that there was a sliding scale
I still don't know. Are you telling me
there's a sliding scale for things like this?
There's a lot of shops that are very involved in charities
that do help with maintenance and the keep or even repairs
of a broke down scenario like that, where cars
no longer serving its function to serve,
especially the single mother scenario.
Like this is one of the heartbreak stories,
like working as a service adviser,
I've probably shared with you in some context,
like I would see these stories, people are crying in front of me.
They're breaking down.
Like this was the last thing that they could handle.
And all of a sudden, I'm in a roll way over my head
for how I can engage someone
who clearly needs help is not asking for any charity,
whatsoever wants to pay the fair price of what something is.
And for whatever reason,
the question never came up like, can you help me with that?
Occasionally it would and it would it would be something like,
yeah, let's see what we can do.
And we would absolutely do it.
There'd be discounts that we can apply to that sort of thing.
And yet there is on the shop side, too,
it's like, oh, someone's come in with a sad story
and they might want to take advantage of us with a sad story
and that sort of thing.
There's fear on that side, too, on occasion.
But our default is typically going to be, yeah,
we're going to try our best, our utmost to try to help the scenario.
But there's dignity to preserve in this.
And I feel like that's like you wouldn't dare bring this up,
probably for one reason, I'm dignity.
But is there also anything behind that?
I know that personally, in my own circumstance
and my personality, I don't want help if I don't need it, right?
So I want to be able to say I can do it myself.
I am proving that I can do this and such.
And, you know, sometimes that's rooted in
childhood growth and where you're at in your family order
or other things as you've grown up.
For me, it was in the middle of my relationship separation
and planting myself strongly, saying that I can take care of my family, etc.
Although we talk about dignity,
there's a difference between understanding someone's
circumstance and meeting them in a comfortable place that I feel,
yes, I can contribute this and you're contributing the other part of it.
We're meeting somewhere in the middle.
And it's a hard topic.
Yes, it's hard to find that place.
It's hard to breach it.
It is.
I had a fear component on my side that would prevent me from being
able to even probe the question of do you need help?
One of the worst mistakes I remember making as a very young service advisor
was I had programming from a computer screen and I talk about some elements
that we sometimes get too fixated on just moving from data field to data
field to data field and not being there just to have a conversation
and open up dialogue in more natural ways.
These are painful lessons because I remember I was I had a female client
in front of me. She had a young child probably around, I don't know, six to eight or so.
And I was just moving across the fields.
Last name, first name, spouse, this and that.
And as I asked spouse, I said, why do you need to know that?
I was like, oh, I'm sorry, it's just a field on my screen.
And that was the end of the conversation.
She left uncomfortable and I got a phone call from one of the shops
that we know very well and say, hey, yeah, we have a client over here
that they were asking and we're referring them back to you
because it sounds like a transmission problem.
But yeah, they were concerned about this spouse crush.
She's like, dude, I know I realized like I made a mistake in how this is.
I was literally just going through the screens.
It seems like they're very uncomfortable with that question.
Why are they either worried like, OK, since she doesn't have a husband,
she feels like she might get taken advantage of.
It's like, oh, my gosh, no, we talked to you up and it was fine.
It got smoothed over. She came back.
We were able to recover from this.
But that made me more nervous for a while on how I engage potentially
difficult situations like that where it would put me in a position like,
crap, there's no trust here.
Like the industry has no trust.
And so the act of even though I'm just there was careless data entry
on my point, even from a position of caring, what if it sounded predatory
is always in the back of my mind now?
What if it sounded predatory?
And I hated having to overcome that element because I know
there's bad players out there, too.
I just wasn't one of them.
So how would that conversation take place in a way that would make you feel
not like you're about to be preyed upon by some
untrustworthy or unscrupulous repair facility?
What might have helped would be the thing that I can.
That's an excellent question.
You're not only touching the angle from your side of seeing it
as a possible predatory or somebody to take advantage of them.
And we have to acknowledge there's bad actors in any industry.
But what you may not be catching also is just for me to have to say
that there is no spouse brings up emotions and circumstances
that I'm just trying to get my car fixed.
And now here is another thing.
Just it's a system in our lives that there's a field.
You're just asking me because it's there and now it's triggering.
Oh, yeah, I'm by myself.
I don't have anybody to consult to figure.
Hey, is this decision or we're making this decision together?
It's just me, right?
So you have that working against you, too.
What I can say is as you went through and presented that to me,
I think it would be wonderful if it's not just you guys.
It's anywhere that you are filling out a form for information.
Have a conversation about who you are, why you're here, what you do.
How many people use this part?
You have other, what's the purpose behind these fields?
You need that field, that field's on the form for a reason.
Is it because hopefully in the future, someone else might be coming in,
maybe to pick up the stable and you'd like to know who that is.
That's the question that you should ask.
Hey, is there somebody else that also drives a stable that might be
picking it up for you?
Nope, it's just me.
Perfect.
That's an easy, safe question, but what's their spouse?
No, it's just a totally different angle that you come at it.
Yeah, that's a much better angle today, too.
And that field for me was just like, I don't even use it anymore.
I couldn't stand it.
Yeah, is there any other decision makers on this vehicle?
Even was I felt a little bit of a riskier ask still, too.
Because of that scenario, it felt like dangerous ground
unless they brought it up in a conversation naturally.
But using those as that's like getting to know you of, hey,
I just saved this car for this myself and my three kids.
We just drive it from school to back.
That's pretty much all we need it for.
Well, now you just found out the reason I have the car,
how important it is to me.
Jewel right there.
The power of an open-ended question versus data entry.
Yeah.
So I mean, an exercise because even looking at your forums
that you're filling out and doing, why are we asking these?
Can we turn this into a kind of a template,
then salesy, pitchy kind of way that you go through
and frame the conversation in a way that you can still get
the information, be able to fill it out while you're talking
and having a conversation.
And then maybe just at the end say, OK, well, great.
This is what I've captured from our conversation.
You know, I've got you here and here.
And this is about the number of people.
This is about how far you drive it.
Whatever it is you guys need to know,
but you've got it through a conversation.
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Now, this particular story, though, continues.
Now, in your case with that vehicle,
yeah, you still had some some repairs
that you had to address.
There were circumstances that I understand it
where you ended up not having some repairs
and then having to do something else with it.
How did that work out for you?
So this might be the more recent conversation
that I asked about.
Was that that we're referring to?
Yeah.
OK, so that's a different car.
That's the different car. Got it.
Yeah, this is a different car.
So to be able to turn in that car
and buy my first car, like actually be in my new job,
have credit, have something saved up
to put a down payment, be able to pay on a newer car.
That was amazing because so I did buy a Prius.
A 2010 Prius was my first car that I bought again
off my own from the gift.
And I remember before I bought it thinking
I don't have to worry about it breaking down on the highway.
I in because I was driving this Park Avenue
eventually to Lansing every day for work
from Grand Rapids to Lansing an hour drive one way
and then another hour back.
And I was constantly afraid it was going to break down on me.
And I was so worried about all the time,
not only just my driving with work,
but also when I drove the kids around,
I remember thinking it would been really, really nice
with this gift that was given.
And again, I'm so thankful for the generosity.
But with some gifts that you're given,
they are still kind of a burden
that I have to carry.
Right. So to have someone else come along
and say, we realize this is an older vehicle,
you need assistance for repair.
Hey, and you're in a really tough time in your life.
Helen, if there's any time that it's making a noise,
just call me. Let me.
I know stuff about cars or hey,
maybe you don't know stuff about cars,
but you'll take it to your guy that you know about cars.
That would have been amazing if I had someone say to me,
it's an older car and or you're in a tough time.
It makes a noise. Call me. I'll drive it.
I'll take it to the repair shop.
I'll bring it back to you and pay whatever
and even pay for it, negotiate whatever.
Or that would have been wonderful to.
Yeah, it'd be powerful.
I was involved in church charity at one point as well,
where we were frustrated
because there were some well-intentioned people trying to help
folks in situations like yours with a vehicle
and they would go and they'd find a vehicle.
All right, here it is.
And some of those people helping out of the sincere goodness
of their heart had zero qualification to assess those vehicles.
And it was aggravating.
Like there was one specific case that just burned in my brain.
It was an early 2000s Dodge Grand Caravan minivan
that was being given to a lady who had needed the help.
And similar ways of what you were describing.
And it experienced a major transmission failure right away for this lady.
And, man, I would have been able to tell from one dipstick check
on that transmission fluid.
It literally had torque converter clutch material on the stick.
It was a common issue back then.
And it would have been like, no, this thing is going to fail.
Imminently type of a thing, just a skilled assessment
could have prevented further frustration.
And now the person was faced with a similar scenario.
Couldn't afford transmission.
And fortunately, the church was able to kick in and assist on that particular case.
But the lesson for the church was also like, oh, this charity program
that they have for providing vehicles cannot stop at the vehicle provision.
It needs professional assessment and good news.
There's professionals who also would happily assess the situation for free.
And these pre-purchase inspections are available.
And most shops would be happy to do them.
They would be happy to.
And those charities need to be aware of that and find a partner in their local area.
Very valuable, you're spot on there.
When you were going on, though, there's another element that would have helped.
I feel like you were going to add to that that, hey, some assistance to help maintain.
Oh, yes, it was a reminder of also so I wouldn't have to remember to change my oil.
And just like the regular stuff that if somebody could also not only
hey, if it makes a noise or a smell or whatever, call me.
But also every three months or, you know, four months, I'll touch base with you,
make a time for you and I'll go take it to get it.
So just having that off your mind because there's just so many things.
Yeah, we call that manage it for me.
Yes, there's so many things that are on my mind as a single mother
taking care of three young children that having to remember
everything, these are crucial things that your livelihood is dependent upon.
If I knew that I could trust someone just that they're taking that for me.
What that would have been.
It's brilliant.
Yeah, so one of the things you've heard me talk a little bit about
some of the what I do on my day to day in our Toastmasters Club
is my practice ground for a lot of the topics and safety, reliability,
efficiency, like our professional responsibilities.
Make sure your vehicle is safe, reliable and efficient.
We won't let you down.
And that's why we inspect every car that comes in and we're going
to provide that inspection result for you here.
And then we're going to help make sure that this thing stays on the road
and we can keep things going great for you.
Right. And that conversation is how we teach advisors to do their job
in our field and your spot on on this what you described.
We call a manage it for me approach to business versus this industry
is sometimes referred to as D.I.F.M.
Do it for me as an car break you fix.
Please do it for me because I cannot fix.
The whole goal is to make sure car does not break in the first place.
That's the goal.
So we've hit on a lot of things.
The trust factor is one of them.
We talked about the vulnerability that we can feel,
especially in that moment of disadvantage.
But what I want to go back to real quick is when you do walk into the shop,
you're not really putting your real circumstances out there.
I feel like we've made some assumptions when people are walking
and you mentioned this already.
You don't know a lot about the cars and being treated sometimes like you do.
Is that did you feel like being treated like you do know?
Or do you feel like more often you're being treated like you didn't know?
What has been impressed on me
as a middle class white female growing up in the Midwest, Southwest
is that women are generally treated as that we don't know about cars.
So when we go to shops,
they will likely take advantage of us because we don't know about cars.
Before the internet came, then access to that type of knowledge
was only in my high school automotive shops,
classes that I never went to.
And then I felt like my opportunity was gone.
So I would say when I go in,
I am presenting that I want to know about what's going on.
I will ask questions.
So it's interesting that you're making me think about,
well, I will ask questions.
They'll say, I'm like, so it's making a noise.
I'm not going to say it's the carburetor or the piston, something, spark, whatever.
I'm going to say it makes a noise like, you could, you could, you could
when I do this, right?
You're the best. Yes, this is good.
This helps us, actually.
And then you're going to come back and say,
we found a bunch of car words
that I don't know what connects to what, how it works, what fires it.
I don't know if you're telling me that you need to replace this piece.
But, you know, is it a part of a larger thing, a system?
Or is it just a little bit?
I just don't know.
So I might ask some questions.
I'm like, so this has to be.
And so you need to do that so that I can get a good picture, except then.
So I mean, I do ask questions.
Well, I can finish that, but I'll tell you this, Helen,
the thing I've noticed and my career as an advisor is our female
clients ask better questions.
You know who comes in pretending to know more than they really do with the real
mask on our guy customers, like not knowing about an automobile is almost
emasculating is the impression that you would have.
And so they cover it up.
Same reason, though, that same fear is there that if you betray
a lack of knowledge too much, like the shop will take advantage.
I talked about this in one of my earliest episodes on the show.
It's the universal fear that is cited by every consumer group
study in our industry is that the vast majority of them feel like
we're going to upsell them things that they do not need.
And that fear comes with they have to act like they know.
And so we have to go along with that and treat people as equal footing
and educate customers in a way that doesn't rob them of the assumption
of knowledge and digital inspection platform that is court,
the auto flow company that I work for is a major help factor in that.
Providing images and videos of the thing that we're discussing
pretty helpful to help them actually see the thing that isn't just
the words of this complex system.
Yeah, and that makes me think of another comparison that I've thought of
is that if we could think of my mechanic as my doctor,
my physician, family practice person that I go see every year
and that you would say, my knee hurts when I do this way.
And then you'd say, well, you're just getting old now, Helen.
That's what happens.
But we have these things that you can put in place if it's a value to you.
If it's going to get you where you need to go based off of your goals,
how often you use your car, how often you or what how long
do you want to keep this car?
How long do you mean this is my if I go back to my person, my knee?
Like how I want to keep my knee, but are you going to be a marathon runner?
Or are you just going to, you know, walk around the block every evening
and enjoy the Michigan evenings, summer evenings?
So depending on what my use is intended use for it,
then you'd advise my mechanic way of, you know,
how to proceed with addressing this issue that's coming at me.
I always make an analogy when I'm speaking on this
for the audience of the auto repair industry, our listeners,
the target audience in the aftermarket here understand this.
I liken it not to a medical visit because you are the patient in a medical visit.
So I like in our industry a little bit more to a veterinary clinic.
So Helen, you have cats, for example.
I start trying to help advisors think of their vehicle as they might think of a pet.
And this is a little bit easier to communicate on.
And when you're managing as the patient and you start managing a vehicle as a patient,
it makes for an easier analogy, I think.
And then we're still dealing with same terms in older car, older pet
and like quality of life analysis here.
How can we manage treatment in a way
that's going to work for your lifestyle and the animal's actual experience?
Right. But I think my intention was to get to the parts of like,
I'm not a doctor, I don't have the PhD in my anatomy
and how it all connects to each other.
So explaining, hey, well, this pinched nerve here
in your shoulder actually runs all the way down your leg where
here's your car word that attaches to the other car word to make this function.
Yeah, too complicated.
Yeah, for I mean, I don't know the words,
but you have to bridge that as whatever profession you're in.
I do that in I.T., you know, well, what do you do for your I.T., you know?
You go on way over people's heads if you want to in that field. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, you have to find that that middle grounds to translate
what it is that the audience needs to your client needs to understand
in order to help them make a good decision
to you on taking your advice or not.
Yeah, one of one of my coaches and mentors, Dennis McCare, and he always says
like he had the story of like an oxygen sensor going bad on the vehicle
and the client asking, what does that do?
Well, sir, right now it's turning on your check engine light.
It's kind of a comical approach to this thing.
Like, oh, we could go and explain how it's measuring the air inside
of the exhaust to understand the how well the engine is running with its
efficiency and all the other things.
But no, at the end of the day, this is how it's affecting you at the moment.
And the long term ramifications are a lack of efficiency and potential.
Other issues or what on it goes.
But no, we don't need to go to the depth that we always need to do.
It doesn't always impress people.
It overwhelms them.
And you have a lot of other things that are already overwhelming.
This does not need to be one of them.
So, Helen, how can we help you make a plan here?
That's going to serve your immediate needs.
Boom. Right.
And a bit more of a different conversation than just this, this, that, that X dollars.
And that's what we're going to do today.
Right. OK.
So I mentioned this O2 sensor and you had a story, Helen, about an O2 sensor.
You bought your daughter another vehicle, an older car.
I did. And this was her high school the summer before her senior year.
She needed a car just to get to school and back in.
So I would be last summer's twenty twenty four.
It was a two thousand nine
Honda Elantra that I bought just through
Facebook Marketplace or something for two thousand dollars.
And I think it had one hundred and twenty thousand miles on it.
Pretty good for that old of a vehicle.
And but of course, it wasn't long before things
were making noises or smells and such.
So a couple of times in and out of the shop, just with the bare minimum
to keep it going. And then finally,
we took it in because it had the check engine light on.
And of course, tons of things come back through.
It was like, you know, twenty five hundred dollars worth of repair
comes back of of needing to fix.
But he said, I think, you know, your culprit really is this O2 sensor,
which I just maybe down in the muffler area, something like that.
I don't know if it's there, but that's what it's detecting the oxygen
coming through on the in and out.
And this is the thing, though, Craig, is
they understood that we are only just needing to get this car by, you know,
just we're not going to throw a lot of money into it.
We're just using it until it's done until it runs out.
We're going to let it go.
But the best that they could recommend was a $1,200 repair
in order to get this O2 sensor issue corrected.
No symptoms, pretty much the lights on.
Did you have any other issues that you felt there?
Only just that it was getting what they told me was that my danger
would be possibly it would start, but it was still starting.
Like sometimes you might need to jump or something
with that and the muffler would get kind of loud eventually.
But no other symptoms, just basically the light was on.
That was basically it.
My automotive thing wants to say what code was it and was it this?
And I'm already thinking, was it the catalytic converter
that they were having to replace?
Because, yeah, oh, my gosh, OK, but no, this story goes on.
And this was just last year.
So I'm much more in my state of mind.
I don't have to worry about where's my food coming in?
How am I getting my kids to school and everything?
So there's a lot better spot, you know.
So it's like, that's interesting.
That's still more than I really want to put into this car right now.
So I'm starting to weigh my options of, you know,
getting a different vehicle for her and how to go about that.
In the meantime, I check with my one of my colleagues who I know
works on cars on the side, handy guy on the side.
He does a quick Google search for the part that I said was
they were going to replace.
He's like, this is wherever he can find it,
$100 less than what they're quoting you at the store.
And likely this is really more of a muffler issue
where it could probably take this to a muffler shop.
And they could, I'm going to hell,
I need this and say, Jimmy, reduct tape,
muffler it to get it to do whatever you need to do
to get that code or whatever to at least to have your the safety
and security for driving the car continually.
Yeah. And for the people that don't recognize Helen and I are both in Michigan
and it gets rusty and exhaust systems are constantly falling apart
in horrible ways.
And there is nothing that can ever be said negative about that
muffler shop that can make a quick patch for some things.
They are valuable to all of us.
So all right, continue.
So he said, you know, if it was him, that's the way he would go.
And just probably the shop doesn't have a muffler specialty guy
in his in their shop.
So the best that they could really do is take out the entire blah, blah,
blah thing and to get to that one space that really needed to be adjusted
where the muffler specialty guy could do that.
So, I mean, at the end, I decided to just trade the car in for another vehicle.
Oh, you didn't even deal with it on this one.
Oh, no. I was like, you know, I didn't do anything to it,
even the 2000 something at all and said, you know what?
It hasn't stalled.
There's a jumper cable in if we need to start.
It might get a little loud eventually,
but it wasn't until she said that something was smelling
that I said, OK, now it's time to go go for you then.
That was about three months later.
So I really didn't do anything with it.
Yeah. So the shop that probably accurately assessed that a component
of maybe a larger area than you needed to do.
Yeah, that's exactly what happens in those cases.
Catalytic converters are expensive and a $1,200 repair in an exhaust
is not surprising because the part itself is often $800.
And yeah, even though you might find a price similar to what the shop
has to pay, shops have profit margins, all the things.
I know our listeners are going through all the things like, of course,
the parts cheaper when you look at it online, all these things.
And like, they don't know the cost of operating business to be there
for the next person's like, no, client doesn't know how our business operate.
It's a perfectly fair assessment.
They don't care that like that's a component of, yeah,
the markup has to be X, Y, Z in order for us to make our margins
in order to pay our staff and be here again next week.
But I will say if that shop would have said, I mean,
it's still $1,200 is significant for this vehicle to repair it.
Oh, it's such a bummer, too. Yeah, yep.
I know it's hard.
You say, I know that we are just wanting to limp this car along.
Here's the $1,200 best recommendation that we can give you.
It would, in my mind, I don't want to go back to them anymore
because I would have preferred them to say what would have built that trust was,
you know what, we've got a muffler guy down the road here.
I've got a relationship.
I'm going to call him and I'm going to send you over there.
I think that he can get that for half the price
and you'll be better off to get that limping or that patch in place.
I don't know how it works in your industry.
It's too bad we'll never know on this story
because I wonder what the diagnosis was.
Was it a bad cat? If it was a bad cat,
yeah, there's cheap cats that you can get, catalytic converters, all the things.
There's literally just a muffler, huh? Man.
It wasn't a catalytic converter.
I wouldn't remember that dog gone.
I really want to know because it's frustrating.
But yes, the thing is sometimes outside of your specialty,
the best thing that you can recommend is some of those.
We had a guy down the corner from us, a Tuffy Muffler shop
that's no longer there now, probably because they didn't charge enough, as my thinking.
But they bailed me out number of times when just a simple crack on a rusty old pipe
and they got it by with some welding magic.
And sometimes the guy never even charged us for it
because we shared customers on occasions and referrals and things like it.
It's just bonkers.
What a good muffler shop in a rusty state can do.
And there was a missed opportunity, perhaps, to look for a middle road option
or explain why this is what it is and shoot would have been good to know.
Like if a muffler shop tried to patch and you still have the same problem
that justified the shop's original diagnostics, we just don't know in this case.
But explaining options, I mean, this is the reality we face.
Customers come into this.
They hear our recommendations and there's always another place
that will have another thing.
And there's always the guy that knows a little bit about some stuff
that can make some recommendations.
And yet there's some facts in the middle of all of this
and the solution just not always obvious.
And it's not the priority for you.
Your priorities get out of this as simple as you can for your exact needs
and perhaps a missed opportunity.
But maybe the best advice is if you aren't willing to do that,
then you're better off getting rid of the car as you did.
And that might have been the advice they had to give.
Right.
Yeah. I want to know the end of that car story, though, man, incomplete, too bad.
Well, I am notorious for not throwing anything away.
So if I walked away with a paper, then I might find it one day
and I'll let you know because it'll be laying around my house somewhere.
Good insight, though, Helen.
And we appreciate your perspective.
I appreciate your perspective.
And I know our listeners will, too, as hard as it is to hear sometimes
about the reality of the perspective of the industry.
I appreciate you coming on to share this stuff.
And I hope that our listeners can draw some value from it
and just think about the way we're approaching the conversations,
not from our perspective, not from taking offense to like,
oh, it's not fair that the industry doesn't have trust.
It's just what it is.
And that's where we have to meet everyone at.
So, Helen, thanks for meeting me here.
And I'm just excited for what our Toastmasters Club is going to have
for your leadership of the club this year.
You've already brought so many great insights and stories.
I shared the storytelling formula in a few episodes ago.
We talked about that.
So, yes, yes, I heard that.
Yes, good stuff.
No, I hope you can come back again.
We'll have plenty more to discuss.
I'm definitely going to interrogate you further
about how your role as president is challenging you
and things you're really happy about, how they turn out.
So, we're only about a month and a half, I think, now into your term,
but good things ahead.
Right, sure. Looking forward to that.
No, it's good stuff.
I use the Toastmasters Club to help people understand
what it is to be an ambassador in our industry
to talk with folks like you who don't know the good side
and the good hearts in the industry.
And I hope there are some folks too.
I hope you heard make your charitable intentions
more well known out there through proper channels.
If you're worried about being taken advantage of,
maybe your charity isn't what you're doing.
But charities out there, there are things.
And I think, Helen, from what I heard from you,
if that had been put out there in churches
or other groups that are more able
to identify charitable needs, if that had been out there,
it would have been much easier for you to tap into, right?
Yes. Letting it make sure it's known.
Otherwise, how can we take advantage of it? Yeah.
Yeah, because just counting on people to tell you the need
is not what's going to be the reality.
Right. Hey, Craig, there's one more thing
that I wanted to share as just as an idea
for a way that you can kind of solicit information
from your clients as they're new coming in
to see where they're at that possibly,
you're not just going to say,
hey, are you somebody in need?
We have a donor that can offer this.
Right. You can't just go on and say this.
What gave me this idea was I got a new tire recently
and the tire shop looked at my tires
and then they brought me in and they had this picture of,
like, here's what the normal tread looks like
and the amount that's here and like a measurement.
And then here's the in-between one or, you know,
and then here's the dangerous one.
You're like right around here, you know,
it just kind of showed me that.
And I'm like, well, that's perfect.
Like it has a visual.
I can see where I'm at.
You know, you looked at that, that's where it's at.
It made me think of putting something together
for assessing new clients on where they're at
in their whatever journey of car owning that we are.
Like.
A vehicle health scale.
It actually exists.
Yep.
Yes. Personal joy.
Are you somebody that is, I'm sure it's like,
I don't want to mess with my car.
I just want to bring it in and you guys fix it.
You don't need to tell me, just make sure it works.
And you don't care how much it costs.
We're just going to take it from you
and you trust us to do everything.
Are you a this person?
Yeah, we call them key throwers.
Here, just take care of it.
Yeah.
And it doesn't necessarily have to be a scale
of a non key thrower to a key thrower scale.
Like continuum, but.
Yeah. What type of customer?
You're describing actually the topic
that my friends, Brian and Kim Walker
will be talking about in an upcoming conference.
They call it customer avatars to a degree
where it helps the shop understand
what kind of client you are.
Or specifically, like you said, with this vehicle even,
there's probably a difference on there too.
And it can inform how the interactions need to go
in order to serve you best and follow up with you best
at how you'd like to be followed up with
and when for that vehicle,
all sorts of variables like that.
And there's some data intake that occurs.
And I always try to teach it through conversation
and asking intelligent questions
to kind of put the puzzle pieces together
through our relationship that is developing
and that the pieces always start to fill in.
And it's out of care and the best interest
for the individual that that conversation
needs to be conducted with solicitude.
I agree with everything you're saying.
And it also made me think of like,
oh, like the Harry Potter houses are kind of cool.
Like you're like, are you this one
or this one or this one?
You can like put them in houses.
And then, yeah, like you describe,
are you a this type of customer
or are you this type of customer
but allowing me to tell you
that I am someone that is in need
without explicitly saying, I'm a person in need.
In some way of, if you went along those,
what did you call them?
A client profiles or avatars.
They're an avatar that you're at this stage
in your life with this type of circumstances
that you're balancing.
You're not asking that.
You're describing, hey, a rabbit avatar is at this.
Here's what the rabbit is and they eat carrots.
We have rabbits that eat carrots
and we have rabbits that eat, I don't know, beets.
I'm gonna have to probe Brian and Kim
on how they approach this too.
But you're describing like almost like
a personality test it feels like.
Yes, but it's not personality.
It's like just where you're at and your situation.
Some intelligent questionnaire of some sort.
Yeah, yeah.
Something that will come out.
Like you go to the doctor with your pets or yourself
and you always have some major checklist to do.
Like we don't put anything in front of people like this
really well anyways.
Yeah, but it doesn't explicitly say like,
are you living paycheck to paycheck?
Like that's not the question.
Yeah, financial circumstances are a tough topic to probe
in what I've seen.
Yeah, how do you ask those questions
without explicitly saying
because a lot of people are living paycheck to paycheck
but they don't admit it.
They don't realize that they're living
beyond their means anyway.
Yeah.
Continuing education, I'm asked, right,
I'm trying to round out some of my college stuff too.
And like just even looking at the admissions process,
first thing they want you to do,
fill out the financial aid form.
No questions, you must fill it out.
You have to fill this out.
And it's a whole thing.
And I don't know how that would look maybe
for the situation on finances.
Like I do know some shops will offer a line
of credit type of a thing, but that's a credit thing.
And most of the people who meet it can't get it.
Yeah, it's tough.
We're gonna be happy to get some outside counsel
on some ideas as we get those together, Helen.
I think you're on a thread there.
I think that's worth exploring a little bit
and knowing from some focus group study
from non-automotive people
and what they would actually feel comfortable with.
I think that's where some insight
would be really beneficial.
Ah, that's cool topic stuff.
Helen, thanks for bringing that in.
All right, well, hey, thank you so much
for listening today, folks.
If you have any questions on this topic
or you wanna visit us in Grand Rapids Toastmasters Club 404,
we're there every Tuesday night, 6.30 to eight o'clock.
If you're in town, let me know on a Tuesday night.
Otherwise reach up to me at speakup at kregoneal.net.
And we do appreciate hearing from you on topics
or suggestions or anything that you wanna hear
about on your communication journey.
I think this will be a great episode
for service advisors out there.
So owners, give them this one.
I think it's a wonderful perspective.
Thanks for sharing again, Helen.
And hey, remember, folks,
listen up to the other shows
on the Aftermarket Radio Network.
We have remarkable results radio with Karm Capriato,
diagnosing the Aftermarket A through Z
with Matt Fonslow, an upcoming guest.
I can't wait for some of you to get to hear him
if you haven't already listened to his show.
Business by the Numbers with Hunt Demerist,
the Auto Repair Marketing Podcast
with Brian and Kim Walker,
and the Weekly Blitz with Coach Chris Cotton.
Looking forward to being out there speaking,
Kim and Brian Walker will be with me
at the Institute's Mars Intensive in Ogden, Utah.
Thanks again to all of our sponsors
to make this show possible.
Please, folks, get out there,
listen up to your clients with care and solicitude,
and then speak up.
You've been listening to Speak Up,
the effective communication with Kregoneal
on the Aftermarket Radio Network.
Follow Kreg on your favorite podcast listening app
and on his YouTube channel.
Let him know what you'd like him to speak up about.
Kreg is all for advancing the Automotive Service
Aftermarket.
About this episode
Helen Fradette shares her unique perspective on navigating the automotive repair industry as a single mother and former music teacher turned IT professional. She discusses the challenges of car ownership during difficult times, emphasizing the importance of empathy and understanding from service providers. The conversation highlights the need for better communication and trust between clients and repair shops, as well as the potential for charitable assistance in the automotive sector. Helen's personal stories illustrate the real-life implications of car repairs and the emotional weight they carry.
Original notes
Thank You To Our Partners The Institute, AutoFlow, Shop Dog Marketing, In-Bound, Express
In our episode today-
I welcome to the podcast my friend Helen Fradette, the newly elected Club President for Grand Rapids Toastmasters, club 404.
As listeners know - one of my favorite things about my weekly participation in club 404 -is that the club is NOT composed of automotive professionals, just a great group of professionals from all walks of life.
This means they have wide and varied perspectives and opinions that I regularly have an opportunity to listen to - and today you will get to listen to one of those voices!
Helen is an IT Security expert, but today she will be sharing a story about a very challenging time in her life - when she was a single mom - couldn’t afford a vehicle… and how things felt when the one that was graciously gifted to her wound up needing repairs.
As I listened to Helen - it was clear to me that most people walking in our shops that need help - may never voice it - and creating the right kind of environment where people feel safe to communicate real needs might be better considered as a proactive approach vs a reactive one. There is an opportunity for our industry to improve the way we can serve - and communicate our desire to do so.
Another Story Helen shared was more common - a circumstance where a shop didn’t provide clear details on a repair that was needed - and resulted in inquiries not to the shop, but to trusted friends, which resulted in no authorized repair.
These types of scenarios play out daily across the country.
I too often- and you might hear this in my conversation with Helen - become very curious about the car in the story.
You may also notice that Helen, in our conversation, was less focused about the details related to the car.
This was an enjoyable and meaningful conversation -
If I can encourage one thing from this chat - it would be to encourage shops to see themselves as partners in life circumstances, not just vehicle mechanics.
The WOTD was fitting for this:
- “Solicitude” (noun)
Meaning: care or concern for someone’s well-being.
Thank You To Our Partners The Institute, AutoFlow, AutoLeap, Shop Dog Marketing, In-Bound, Express:
The Institute at WeAreTheInstitute.com. "Stop stressing over your business, you deserve a good night's sleep. The Institute’s coaching helps you achieve success and financial peace.
AutoFlow at AutoFlow.com. Your partner in technology, Autoflow consolidates your client interactions - before, during and after the visit to a single thread. Learn more at Autoflow.com
Shop Dog Marketing at Shop Dog Marketing.com. "Want to see your auto repair shop thrive? Let Shop Dog Marketing be your guide. Our customer-first approach, combined with AI-driven creative content, ensures top rankings.
In-Bound at CallInBound.com. Cover your communication needs and revolutionize your auto repair business with AI-driven call analytics from InBound.
Express by Facepay myexpress.io. Keep your existing merchant processor and software at your service counter. Express is integrated into your workflow to make the experience better....
Remarkable Results Radio Podcast
Carm Capriotto, AAP
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