TFL Car Chat Oct 20, 2025

Ep. 307: Is The Hot Hatch Back - Subaru WRX vs VW Golf R!

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Car

Volkswagen Golf

The Volkswagen Golf R Black Edition is a sporty version of the Golf car that looks sleek with a black design. It's built for better performance and has features that make it fun to drive.

Car

Subaru Wrx

The Subaru WRX is a fast and sporty car that can handle well in different weather conditions. It's known for its powerful engine and is often used in racing.

Car

Subaru STI

The Subaru STI is a performance version of the Subaru Impreza, designed for speed and handling. It's popular among car enthusiasts for its racing capabilities and all-wheel drive system.

Brand

Mercedes

Mercedes is a well-known car brand that makes luxury cars and trucks. They are famous for their stylish designs and advanced technology.

Brand

Jaguar

Jaguar is a British car brand that makes luxury vehicles. They are known for their sleek designs and powerful engines.

Car

Audi Tt

The Audi TT is a small sports car that looks stylish and is fun to drive. It's known for its unique shape and sporty design.

Car

Mercedes-Benz 300 SL Gullwing

The Mercedes-Benz 300 SL Gullwing is a famous car from the 1950s with unique doors that open upwards. It's a very sought-after classic car.

Car

Chrysler Crossfire

The Chrysler Crossfire is a sporty car that was made in the early 2000s. It has a distinctive look and shares some parts with a Mercedes-Benz model.

Term

A 12-cylinder powertrain is an engine with twelve individual cylinders that help it produce a lot of power. These engines are usually used in fancy or fast cars because they run smoothly and can go really fast.

Car

Ford Mustang

The Ford Mustang is a popular sports car that has been around for many years. It's known for being powerful and stylish.

Term

EcoBoost

EcoBoost is a type of engine made by Ford that helps save gas while still being powerful.

Car

Ford Mustang GTD

The Ford Mustang GTD is a super-fast version of the classic Mustang sports car. It's built for people who want a thrilling driving experience with lots of power.

Car

Dark Horse

The Dark Horse is a special version of the Ford Mustang that is built for better performance and handling.

Part

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Hey guys, welcome to another episode of TFL Car Chat,

except today, Tommy, it's TFL Garage Chat,

because we're in a garage.

Yeah, that's right.

So in today's episode, we're going to talk about

a whole bunch of really fun topics.

And then at the end of this podcast,

we're also going to give you a live walk around

of the two cool cars behind us,

the new Volkswagen Golf R Black Edition

with the Euro style package, and of course, Subaru WRX.

Yeah, I would call them competitors,

but they sort of kind of compete.

Unfortunately, the latest Subaru isn't the hatch anymore.

It's a, well, it's got a trunk.

Although our producer Zach was telling me

something interesting.

Apparently Subaru is coming to the Tokyo Auto Show

where we're going to be this year with a new STI.

Really?

Yeah, pretty cool.

Well, speaking of the new STI, and by the way,

if you guys are listening to this as a podcast,

you're welcome to go over to our YouTube channel, TFL Talk.

Oh my God, there's somebody cutting,

like leaf blowing right outside the garage.

Literally 10 feet from where we're standing.

Someone has fired up the leaf blower.

Which is probably not a problem

because these bikes do a good job of cutting that out,

but it's really hard to concentrate

when somebody's leaf blowing like 10 feet away from you.

So, so much for our, you know,

our bright idea of having garage chat.

Yeah, exactly.

We should be back in the studio.

Let's start with the news.

And we're going to forget about the new Mercedes

that was introduced.

Why?

Because that's kind of not our audience.

Did you like it, the new Vision concept?

Yes, they finally came out with a concept

that doesn't look like some weird smorgasbord

of a piece of Tupperware and a Hot Wheels.

They came out with this new retro concept,

which looks like something from the 1950s or 60s.

It has a huge Mercedes grill.

It looks like a Cruella car.

It's very, very cool.

Long hood.

Yes.

It's rolling like on 30s or 34s.

But it's gorgeous.

It's such a cool, long profile two-door look.

All right, I have one question about it.

What?

It looks just like the Jaguar 00 concept.

It looks nothing like that.

It looks just like a long hood.

It looks exactly like it,

except that that one came out in pink

and this one came out in black.

So if the Jaguar had been black,

have you been all over it instead of pink?

Well, the purple poodles were a big part of the issue

with the Jaguar launch,

but this car's got the iconic Mercedes grill.

See, that's the problem with the Jaguar

is it doesn't have a face.

It's the same thing.

Long hood.

It's exactly the same thing.

The proportions are similar,

but the Mercedes has done so much better in every way.

It's just better executed.

It's got the logo.

It's got the emblem.

It's got the boat tail.

The Jaguar had this weird dog pooping back end thing.

I like the Jaguar back end.

So the Mercedes has the tail out of the gull wing,

which people love.

But I think the problem with the Jaguar,

and to be honest, the new Audi TT

also looks like the Jaguar.

I feel like all these designers have coffee together

and they decide that, you know,

the latest and greatest thing now is to have,

you know, a long hooded short.

Well, that's every concept car ever made.

No, these are all the same.

But they're not.

So here's the thing.

No, it's not every concept car.

Lexus just came out with a new concept.

That's a six wheel van.

That is very different from this.

But the Mercedes has the rear end from a gull wing.

Yes, it does.

And the Jaguar has the rear end from a Chrysler Crossfire.

That is the difference between the Jag and the Mercedes.

I just think the problem with the Jaguar

was that commercial where they had like

the United Colors of Benetton models do the commercial

and it was just bad timing.

Sure, part of it, yeah, for sure.

In general terms, the Jerry McGovern design

is very similar to the Audi design

because the Audi design was done by Jerry McGovern,

who's the lead designer for Jaguar.

His like underling, he went from Jaguar to Audi

and so the Audi looks the same now

and now the Mercedes looks the same.

Well, the Mercedes is the only one that hit right.

That's by far the best looking

of the long nosed concept cars.

But they'll never build it.

But Jaguar will build theirs.

I think they might.

I think Mercedes might build something similar.

Of course, the magic sauce is that the Jaguar

is electric and the Mercedes isn't electric.

Which makes the Mercedes a lot more appealing

to most people.

That's the magic sauce that the Jaguar missed.

But if Jaguar puts a 12-cylinder,

which they have done in the past,

into the 00 concept.

When's the last time they put a 12-cylinder in a car?

1990?

Yeah, but they are known for 12-cylinder powertrains,

which they could easily do.

If they stick a 12-cylinder in there,

then all of a sudden everybody's gonna swoon over it

and they're gonna be like the Mercedes.

So Mercedes learned from Jaguar.

They put an inertial combustion engine in.

For sure.

They put it on 34s and they made it black.

It's that simple.

And they give it a big Mercedes grill.

It's not quite that simple.

The proportions are better.

All right.

Proportions are identical.

The other piece of news, I think,

which is really interesting,

is Ford launched a new Mustang.

It's in partnership with RTR,

which is Von Gittin Jr.'s company.

And basically what they've done is they've created

kind of like a drift spec version of the Mustang.

So fundamentally, it's based on an EcoBoost,

but then they more or less rated the parts bin

to create something a little bit zestier on a budget.

So it's got the front end from a Mustang GT.

It's got the sway bars from a Dark Horse.

It's got the big brakes from a GT Performance.

And it's got something called anti-lag.

So it's got a system built into the car

to help-

Turbo spools up.

Turbo lag, exactly right.

Maintain boost pressure.

That's a really cool looking car.

And hopefully if they keep the price down,

it might be relatively-

You know what it doesn't have?

What does it have?

A V8.

Can Ford make a four-cylinder turbo Mustang,

with emphasis on Mustang,

as popular or anywhere near as popular as the GT?

And I think no matter who you partner with,

what you do to it,

it's always gonna be the lesser of the Mustangs.

And I think true, true Mustang aficionados

are always gonna want,

no matter how youthful they try to make the four-cylinder,

they're always gonna want the big V8.

The two just go together like peanut butter and chili.

Yeah, but I think that this is pretty cool

because the V8 has its own character, right?

It's kind of like when Ford did the SVO

in the Fox body in the 1980s, right?

They did the turbocharger.

I think it was a 2.3 liter then as well.

And it kind of just appealed

to a slightly different crowd, right?

And I think what's smart about this

is a lot of the drift community

is centered around Japanese cars.

If you think of like the iconic-

Yeah, GDM stuff.

Yeah, like the S13, S14s, right?

And that's a community that really loves

and appreciates a turbo-powered four-cylinder car, right?

And that's what Ford's doing with the EcoBoost Mustang.

It's a turbo-powered four-cylinder car.

I always wonder when car companies go out of their lane

and try, you know, I applaud Ford

for trying to go after a new market,

but those, I mean, it's kind of like the truck world, right?

My daddy was a Chevy guy.

My grandfather was a Chevy guy, so I'm a Chevy guy.

And I just don't think the two,

there's not a lot of crossover.

I think Ford, Mustang, and drifting are-

There's more than you think.

There's actually, there's a lot of people

that have drift builds on Mustangs

and they've been doing it for a long time.

Let's be completely honest here.

To make a drifty Mustang,

it's all about steering angle, right?

It's not just about the powertrain.

It's about being able to turn that wheel.

Well, it's about suspension, yeah.

So you can get the drift angle.

And that's what Ford is not gonna do

because, of course, that would make the car

very unusual to drive, let's put it that way.

Well, I mean, I think that what they were targeting

is not only drifting, although a lot of their marketing is,

but they said they wanted, like, you know,

the lively handling characteristics

that the four-cylinder Mustang provides,

which is, you know, there's some truth to that.

So in the previous S550 Mustang,

you could get the performance package on the four-cylinder

and it turned it into, like, an incredible autocross car.

And I think you can on the new one,

but they had a really special version

in the old one as well.

And that was a really cool package.

Chevrolet did the same thing

with the four-cylinder Camaro that nobody bought.

They did a really high-end suspension package on it.

So I'm not sure you're right.

I don't think they're gonna sell a ton of these,

but I also appreciate, you know,

they gave it some different look.

They gave it, like, these little green flares

in the nostrils, which is cool.

So it doesn't just have mechanical changes.

It's also a lot of visual differences.

So if I may be so bold, we own the GT,

the latest generation.

We had it for about a year.

Yep.

And I might make some suggestions to Mr. Farley.

Instead of going after the drift crowd

and trying to sell JDM buyers,

the one part of the Mustang that made me

not excited to drive it

was that it had the interior of a rent-a-car.

And that is always a problem, right?

You get into this thing

and you've got this extremely beautiful exterior design,

which, you know, is about as American as you can get.

You've got this incredible exhaust,

especially with ours, with that performance exhaust,

where you could tune in how loud you want it to be.

And then you look at the fur on the side of the door.

You look at the fur on the ceiling.

You look at the hard plastics.

You look at, you know, the little Coke bottle controls,

and you're like, I'm sitting in a rent-a-car.

And it just completely takes me out of the car.

So if you really want to sell more Mustangs,

you know, up your interior game.

And I think you can do that just as cost beneficially

as doing a drift four-cylinder.

That's my guess.

I'm just saying, make the interior nicer.

Make it actually, try to go for world-class.

And I think Corvette has a lesson in there, right?

The Corvette always, we have a third generation now.

We have a fourth generation.

So we have a C3, C4, we have a C8.

And the C8 really upped the interior game.

And that's what brought it from being just an American,

you know, wannabe sports car,

to an American performance sports car

that can compete with the best cars in the world

and still do it at half the price.

So, you know, you could buy a McLaren for 400,000,

or you could buy a ZR1 for 200,000.

And the Mustang has better performance than the McLaren.

I think better styling.

Corvette.

I'm sorry, yeah, the Corvette has better performance,

better styling, and a better interior.

And now all of a sudden you're at that, you know,

international level of playing field.

And I think if Mustang were to do that,

then you would breathe new life into it,

as opposed to trying to kind of, you know,

go after a different demographic,

which may or may not be excited by Mustangs.

I don't think you're gonna get those demographics anyways.

I mean, I think that, first of all,

the Corvette's $80,000 starting, realistically.

They say 70, so it's double.

How much is a dark horse?

Yeah, but starting, it's 35 for a Mustang.

Right, I get that.

So it's half the price of a Corvette.

So, the Corvette started, they used to,

when the CA came out, it was 69,000.

Yeah, and the Mustang was 30 back then.

No, I'm saying the CA.

I know, but now it's, no, it was 59.

Now it's 70 starting.

So it's still double the Corvette.

Yeah, but that's because of, you know,

what's been happening with all of the worldwide stuff.

I think, you know, how much is the new drift Mustang?

They don't have pricing yet.

All right, so I bet you it's gonna be.

45.

Yeah, so I bet you if they had taken that money,

or that increase, and put it into a GT

and made the interior nicer,

then you could have gotten more buyers.

But who's gonna cross shop that?

I think, like, the problem is,

what is Mustang gonna cannibalize from?

Right, like, it's not like there's Camaro.

Me, me, they're gonna get, we had it a year,

and I got rid of it,

because I got sick of driving a rent-a-car.

Me, you're gonna get me.

No, I understand the interior's bad,

but I'm not sure that the typical Mustang buyer

cares that much.

I think they do.

I think they're just buying a really cool-looking car

with the V8.

No, I think the, okay, okay, I don't wanna jump.

Please keep going, I'm talking over you.

Yeah, and the other thing, too, is, like,

the CA Corvette is a leap up in interior,

and people still complain about it.

All the comments that say that interior's so bad.

And they're redoing it for 2026.

Yeah, and they're still gonna complain about the new one,

because they complained about it in the C6,

they complained about it in the C7 when they made it.

No, the C6 was pretty bad.

Yeah, C6 was bad, but C7 was excellent for the time.

It was better, and C8 was even better.

And people are still complaining.

And the thing is, you're driving a 3LT.

If you sit in a 1LT, that interior's pretty bad.

Like, it's pretty crappy and plastic-y.

It's not.

It looks cool, but, like, when you start touching things

when they don't have the leather dash,

like, they're not very nice.

All right, anyway, I think we beat that horse to death.

And then the last bit of news we should discuss is,

for the first time, new car pricing

has now gone above $50,000.

For a long time, it was hovering in the $47,000, $48,000 range.

When I say new car pricing, I mean the average new car

is now $50,000.

And at the same week, defaults on car loans

are through the roof.

Who would have thunk that when you have cars that start at $50,000

and people are taking out six, seven, eight-year loans on them,

that you're going to start getting defaults?

Yeah.

Because you're going to get underwater like that.

For sure.

In a car.

Yeah, definitely.

No, I mean, I think that it's a huge, huge problem.

People just can't afford these cars with crazy lengths

on these loans.

And then the cars go underwater really quickly,

and they depreciate quickly.

And it's just, I'm at the point where, me personally,

like, I have no interest in buying a new car.

Yeah, I think a lot of people have gotten there, Tommy.

I think a lot of people have now decided

that new cars are unaffordable, and that new car smell isn't worth it.

So let somebody else take the hit on depreciation.

And then with our sponsor, Grainger, you can actually

get an extended warranty.

So I think a lot of the reason that people buy new cars,

at least this is the reason my dad or your grandfather bought new cars,

is that they wanted the peace of mind of not

having to worry about the thing breaking down

and then having the huge repair costs.

But like I said, with our sponsor, Grainger,

you can now get a three- or four-year-old car.

Our Corvette was five years old, and we got a Grainger warranty on it.

And then have it be fully warrantied for the next, let's say, five years.

And back when your grandfather was buying cars,

if you can get $100,000 out of a car, my god, that leaf blower is so annoying.

100,000 miles.

If you get 100,000 miles out of a car.

I'm having a hard time putting a sentence together with this.

Yeah, I mean, I think new cars are better made than they've ever been.

And that means that slightly used cars are better

made than they've ever been.

And it just goes to show that, look, you're

better off buying a car that's maybe three, four, five

years old for half the original sticker price and enjoying it that way.

Yeah, and you're a perfect example of that.

We'll talk about your LR3.

Yeah, I mean, I love that.

This is a very old car.

Yeah, I love Land Rovers.

And the new ones now are $70,000, $80,000 for Defender or even a Discovery.

So my wife and I bought one for $5,000 two years ago.

And it's been perfect.

I've owned it for 20,000 miles.

How much money have you put into it?

You took it to Toby a couple of times.

I'm probably in it, like in service, probably $1,800 over two years.

So now you're into it $7,000.

Yeah, because there was a bunch of stuff I had to fix right when I bought it.

$5,000 over $2,000.

Uh-huh.

Yeah, there's a bunch of things I had to fix right away

because it was an auction car.

But since then, it's been really reliable.

And it's been a great ownership experience.

So you can get those experiences for $5,000 or $10,000.

You don't have to spend $40,000, $50,000, $60,000, $70,000.

Yeah, and so I think also that the advent of CarMax and Carvana,

which makes it easy, where it's no longer you

have to go into the used car dealer and deal.

Because here in Denver, there's this road called Colfax.

And it's known for having all these used car dealers.

And look, I'm not going to point fingers at any of them.

But the reputation for these guys is that they're pretty sleazy at worst

and not very professional at best.

And that has always, I think, held people back from buying a used car.

Because you'd be putting up with somebody who's like, yeah,

this car was driven by an old lady to church and back.

Sure.

But it turned out that it came from Louisiana,

where it was in the last hurricane, and that every piece of electronics

in the thing is completely fried.

And now with, like I said, with Carvana and some of these other used car

buying, where they actually go through the car

and you have some faith and confidence in the fact

that this thing actually may last the next 5, 10 years,

as opposed to your only recourse is to go write a nasty review on Yelp

or on Google, then it makes used car buying doable.

The downside, of course, today is that everybody who has a problem,

first thing they do is they go online and they talk about how bad they're,

whatever.

Pick a car, there's always something that's horrible about it.

And you don't know who to believe and what to believe.

And to add, to make even matters worse, influencing on YouTube and on TikTok

and on Instagram has gotten so out of control

now that it's hard to tell what's a real review to what's just somebody

basically selling their own opinion and not disclosing it.

For sure.

And that's what I'm proud of.

I'm going to raise the TFL flag a little bit here.

I'm really proud of us because we try to actually be honest

and we try to be traditional journalists.

And I know that also has a lot of connotations

that people would call fake news.

But we try to be honest and we try to give real opinion

and we try to be unbiased and we try to actually tell you when things go wrong

and be transparent and let you know when somebody's sponsoring a video

versus when they're not sponsoring a video.

And that way, we're hopefully giving you guys honest car buying advice.

The other thing's true too, where people pretend to give car buying advice

but it's just really a way to get clicks.

If the world, if the sky is completely falling,

then people tend to click on that.

And that may not also be the case.

Nothing to add to that?

No, I think you got it all.

It's hard to carry this conversation by myself.

I think you got it all.

So what else should we talk about?

What else do you want to talk about?

What did we do this week?

What did we do in cars?

What did you do?

Well, this week, we went to-

Oh, you broke our Land Rover.

Well, we were in Toyota this week, driving the new F4.

And that video is going to be out on the 22nd of this month.

And next week, we'll have a whole podcast about the new F4 as well.

And then yesterday, you broke our new Defender.

Definitely didn't break a new Defender.

I can't think, sorry.

You broke our old Range Rover, our P38.

Exactly right.

You want to tell them what happened?

Yeah, so we went to the TFL Mud Hole with Perry, which is our 2001-

I've got a picture of it, Colt, so you could put it in there

so you can see what happened to it.

Oh, yeah, our 2001 Range Rover.

And this is a challenge that we've run in a few vehicles now.

Like, we've done it in our Nissan Half.

We've done it in our Ford Bronco on 35s.

And we thought it'd be cool to see if our really old Range Rover could

do the same trail, because it's proven itself to be really good off-road.

Like, we rode Hell's Revenge in it.

We've taken it to the off-road park.

We've done a bunch of trails in Colorado.

And it continues to be amazing.

So we brought it to the Mud Hole.

And we were going down the trail.

And the intro part of that trail is pretty cool.

Like, there's some really cool little holes you go through and some pits.

And there's some kind of muddy climbs.

And the car is performing incredibly.

So we get to the Mud Hole.

And then it's a steep, like, a 35-degree descent for about 8 feet

into a small lake, a muddy lake.

So you really don't have a lot of control.

So you put your front end there.

And then you creep forward.

You hopefully have the break-over angle, which we did.

And then you stay on the brakes, and the car slides down.

And the car slid down.

And it went right into the bottom of the hole.

And we were like, well, that's not good.

But once you're there, there's no backing up.

It's like you're on a slick, mud-covered incline.

So then we give it some throttle.

And the front end starts leveling out.

And it goes, kkkk.

We clear it.

And then the back end needs to slide down, which is always

just dragging it on the bumper.

So it dragged the rear bumper.

That was fine.

But then in the process of doing that, the front end

then slams into a rock, which is on the driver's side.

And it just crunched the crud out of the fog light

and the lower portion of the bumper.

So that got all smushed and crunched.

Now, I figured it cracked.

But like, well, we've got to get through this.

So what I did then is like, well, let's get on the throttle

and see if we can get out of it.

But the front end was so jammed up on the rock,

and the rear end was so jammed up on the muddy slope

that there's just no moving past it.

So we tried rocking it back and forth,

tried sawing the wheel left and right.

Tires were aired down at 17 PSI.

So eventually what we had to do is we took our recovery Bronco.

We swung it around to the front end here.

Then they hooked up the winch, and we

were able to winch it up and over the rock.

So we got it just high enough, unhooked it,

and then we could pull Perry up to the second hole.

So it was another steep descent.

Then it bottomed out on the crest, high-centered.

Wheels were spinning.

Eventually, with enough wheel sawing and accelerator,

got grip, went down to the second hole,

got stuck again in the second hole,

had to do like the little reverse thing,

trying to seesaw it back and forth.

And eventually, low range first gear, let the V8 roar,

and we were able to drag, with all its might,

it dragged itself out of the second hole.

So that's the first time we had to winch.

Yes, on that obstacle, for sure.

Because we've taken the Bronco in there, and it went through.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And we've taken GG, our military truck, through there.

And you destroyed that lower part of the bumper

and the fog light.

What happened to the fog light?

Is it gone?

No, I just threw it away.

I collected all the pieces and then threw it away

at the ranch, because it got all smushed.

Like I said, if you want to see this,

I'll give you that photo call, and you

can edit it into the video so you

can see the results of this off-road adventure.

But Kees and I had a good idea, actually, how to fix it,

which I think is going to be what?

The noise out there is incredible.

Yeah, Kees and I have a good idea

how to fix it, which I think is going to work really well.

If you look at the way the bumper's designed,

the corners are where the fog lights are.

I thought they were metal, which

is why I was pretty confident it wasn't going to crack.

You're going to bodge some kind of a homemade piece of metal

on it.

No, no, no.

What we're going to do is we're going

to cut out the bottom portions to the middle crossbar,

where there's a nice little grill.

And there's a perfect line you can

trace to cut out that section.

And do it on each side, so you illuminate the fog lights.

You still have the upper bumper.

You still have the lower portion.

You're just missing the corners.

It'll look like a ZR2.

And then I found these little light pods on Amazon

that you can then attach to the other side

of the big portion of the bumper.

And you'll then have LED lights there.

I think it's going to look bodged.

Well, it's going to look a lot better than it does now.

Well, why don't you just replace the bumper?

You can't get them.

Why?

I tried finding a new.

I thought that bottom portion was separate from the top,

but it's all one unit.

Well, you've got to get the whole unit.

I'm sure they're out there.

They're probably just more expensive than the car's worth.

And then you've got to repaint it.

The cheapest one I saw was like $1,000.

Yeah, and you've got to repaint it.

So I'm going to try this first.

And if it doesn't work, then we're

going to put a tube bumper on it.

Because there's no point in trying to find a OG bumper.

The cool thing about that P38 was that it was pretty like.

It's got no paint on the back half of it.

I know, but the car itself was in pretty good condition.

It has like 150,000 miles.

Yeah, it's.

I just don't want something like bodged up.

You know what I mean, like some redneck-y thing.

There's a lot of P38s out there that are perfect.

This car is not deserving of a perfect restoration.

I'm not saying restore it, but don't like

make it look like it's bodged together.

Well, we've got to try something,

because we can't drive it right now.

Why?

Because the plastic is hanging down.

Well, just take it off.

Cut it off.

Yeah.

But my plan is to cut it along the line.

Then you have a high approach from bumper.

And if you put a little fog light in there,

I think it'll look cool.

I'm going to give it a try.

I'm actually pretty confident, because Case usually

is very aesthetically.

And it was his idea to actually do that.

I think that's a pretty good idea.

Or we could sell it back to the guy who bought it from whom

she'll be happy to fix it.

I'll give us $1,000 for it.

Yeah, it's better than.

Dad, at that point, we might as well just keep the car.

Yeah, then we're paying insurance for it.

And we don't use it that much.

It's just taking up more space.

I don't want to.

You want to buy it from the company?

Yes, maybe I will buy it from the company.

All right, if you want to, here, I'll make you a deal.

We bought it for $4,000.

I'll sell it to you for $2,000.

Maybe I'll do that.

That car could actually be really cool.

If you want it, I'll sell it to you, too.

And then you could do whatever you want with it.

You really don't like the bumper cutting idea.

No, I don't like the bumper.

But if you want to do it, spend $2,000 of your own money,

and then go and do whatever you want to it.

OK.

OK?

Yeah, OK.

I think that's fair.

Yeah, but the Perry is still, even though the bumper

exploded, it's still a very impressive off-road machine.

The fact it was able to do what it did was very, very cool.

I think I'm more excited about the RAV4.

So in case you're wondering, we can't really talk about it.

And I'd hate doing this.

Hey, Ryan Reynolds here.

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One of my pet peeves when people promote something they can't talk about,

but we can talk about some things, which is the stuff that was unveiled

when we went to it.

So let's quickly talk about the RAV4,

and just reference the stuff that we did when the vehicle was first unveiled.

So we can talk about the models, because those were unveiled.

So there are three distinct models.

There is the traditional...

They call them the Core.

The Core, right, which is kind of a regular RAV4.

Then there is a new GR,

which is not really a GR in terms of GR Corolla,

because there's no more...

Well, they don't call it...

They call it a GR Sport.

It's a GR Sport.

So it's kind of like an S-line, if you're thinking about Audi,

or an M-line, if you're thinking about BMW.

Definitely, yeah.

And it's got this kind of cool, big spoiler,

and it's lowered a little bit.

And it's got sporting aspirations, but it doesn't have any more power.

That's correct.

Yeah, so it's got a bunch of changes to it,

which we can't get specifics on.

Right, right.

I was talking about the stuff we saw when it first came out.

Yeah, so it's got different wheels, tires.

It's got a big wing in the back.

It's got a very aggressive front and rear.

A lot of GR logos.

GR logos on the brake pad.

GR logos on the headrest.

GR logos on the...

Brake caliper.

GR logos on the steering wheel.

GR logos on the floor mat.

Yeah, they did a really good job with it.

And then inside, it's got different seats in it, different materials.

So it's a pretty cool-looking trim,

and we'll have the driving impression on the 22nd.

And then the final one, it used to be called the Adventure or the TRD,

but now they're calling it the Woodster.

The Woodland.

So this is a off-road version of the RAV4.

So it's got wheels and tires, and it's got rigid fog lights in the front,

different front end.

It's got some changes in the plastics and the materials inside as well.

And like I said, I don't think it's going

to be like a Bronco Sport competitor in the Sasquatch,

but it does look like it could be something a little bit more

adventurous than the standard RAV4.

And without going into specifics, the new 2026 RAV4

is about the same size as the old one, give or take.

And the most unusual thing, we've already done a video on this,

so we can talk about it, is you want to talk about the armrest slash cubby hole

closer?

Like crazy center console armrest that one side's padded,

the other side's got a little storage tray on it, and it's reversible.

You can actually take it out and spin it around.

It's going to come in hybrid standard, standard hybrid across the board.

Yeah, there's no non-hybrids anymore.

Yeah, there's no gasoline versions.

They're all hybrids or plug-in hybrids.

So there's two.

There's going to be standard hybrids and plug-in hybrids.

We've got four videos coming next week, so look out for those.

We did the GR, we did the Woodster, Woodman.

We did the regular one, and we did a comparison

between the new top-of-the-line Limited and the GR.

We're guessing the most expensive versions of those,

so those are all going to be next week.

So head on over to AllTFL if you want to see that.

All right, shall we look at the cars behind us?

Sure, we can do that.

Tell me, what are we looking at here?

We've got two cars in the garage.

Yeah, so we've been trying to do some more direct head-to-head comparisons

on TFL Car, and these are two that I think a lot of folks are very interested in.

So here we've got the new Golf R, Mark VIII, which has been updated.

And this one's not just any Golf R, this is the black edition

with the Euro style package.

This has got a really cool set of cloth seats.

It's got the sunroof delete.

It's actually quite a bit lighter than the standard Golf R.

It's kind of got the Porsche model of you pay more and get less.

It's sort of the way to look at it.

But this is a really very, very fun car.

So we're looking at, I think it's 320 horsepower.

They just dropped this thing off at the office.

It's got the 8-speed automatic.

You can't get the manual in the Golf R anymore, which is a big bummer.

But having said that, when you combine that with this really cool torque

vectoring all-wheel drive, it's a very capable little machine.

Yeah, and you said pay more and get less.

You're paying $53,731 for this car, which is definitely more.

Now, look, there are, what, eight versions of the Golf Mark VIII.

This is the Mark VIII.

Yep.

And when this first came out, I was excited because I remember seeing it

for the first time at the Chicago Auto Show.

And then Volkswagen somehow went off the deep end with their haptic controls

and their lack of window switches.

And I think it really hurt them in the Golf and the GTI and the Golf R.

And so this would be, what, an 8.5 would be fair to call it?

Yeah, for sure.

And they've kind of taken a step back.

They still have that kind of goofy gear selector.

I mean, I'd rather see a manual.

I mean, I think that they've made some cool little tweaks and changes in here.

Like, I do think that they've done a great job updating the infotainment

system over the previous few years.

It's fast.

It's much easier to use than it's ever, ever been.

Having said that, there's still no buttons.

Yeah, look at all these haptic controls here, haptic controls there.

Yep, so all these on the steering wheel, these are still pretty much all haptic

controls.

My biggest annoyance is the heated steering wheel button

I hit constantly when I drive this car.

So it's just right there where I kind of rest my finger.

So that's the most annoying part about this car.

But at least the tech that they've included here in the center screen

has gotten a lot better.

It's much, much better than it was.

The problem with it is all that tech gets in the way of the driving experience.

And this car, being the top model of the Golf,

should be all about driving experience.

And now it's all about, like, you're screwing around

with the heated steering wheel button instead of actually enjoying

the driving experience.

Should we look under the hood?

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, so this is still about a variant of the EA888, but, oh, sorry,

seven-speed DSG.

I always get that mixed up.

Volkswagen does an eight-speed auto or a seven-speed DSG.

So this is a seven-speed dual clutch.

So this is, I think, the Evo 5 version of the EA888 four-cylinder engine.

Very, very impressive all-wheel drive system, though.

That's what makes this thing so cool.

And the power, you know, we're looking at over 300 horsepower out

of a four-cylinder turbo, which, even going back 10, 15 years,

would be pretty unheard of.

And what makes the Golf R, of course, the top dog not only has it

got the most power, it's also the only one that's all-wheel drive.

No.

No, GTI is front-wheel drive.

But GR Corolla's all-wheel drive.

No, no, I'm not saying out of the Golf lineup.

Oh, sure.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so GTI front-wheel drive, regular Golf.

This used to be kind of the id car for a long time,

especially the 7.5.

Yeah, people really liked Mark 7.

Mark 7, yeah.

Mark 7.5 was kind of the high water for GTIs and Golf Rs.

And I kind of feel like not just Volkswagen, but the Germans have gone

all in on screens and haptic controls.

And they've forgotten that these cars are mainly about the driving experience.

And somehow, this is trying to come back to that.

Now, we are going to drag race these two next week to find out exactly

which of them is quicker.

What was surprising is that the WRX, which is next to it,

we drag raced against the GR Corolla, which also has 300 horsepower,

and the WRX won.

Yeah, and this is only a 268, but more on that in a second.

I do want to show you the best part about this Golf R.

So that Euro-style package is expensive.

It's like a $3,700 option.

But the exhaust is what really makes it special.

So it's a full titanium exhaust on this car.

It's an Akrapovic exhaust.

So you get those really beautiful fluted tips out back.

Of course, the four indicating it's an R.

But it gives it a little bit better sound.

It's a little bit lighter weight as well.

Now, Tommy, I bet you people are wondering what that sounds like.

Well, next week, we're going to be drag racing this.

And we're doing only, for the most part, drag races on TFL cars.

So if you want to see and listen to it, be sure to go to all TFL.

And we'll have this thing in its full glory going down the quarter mile.

Yeah, for sure.

We've also actually done some cool stuff with this car

before, where we drag raced our 1994 Viper.

So that video is live over at TFL Car 2

if you want to see what a modern hot hatch does

against this massive V10 from the 1990s.

But look, there's a lot to like about this car, especially

the seat design and the seat pattern.

I think it's just so cool in how they've incorporated it

into the inside of this vehicle.

I mean, the hot hatch has always been, the magic has always been,

you can have your cake and eat it too, right?

So you can have a car that's both practical and sporty and fun

without having to give up that sense of driving dynamic

that you get in a sports car.

And that's why, at least when I was a kid,

these were always my favorite cars.

Because at the same time, they were always affordable.

Now $53,000 is not affordable, but you can get a GTI for about $10 less.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, I mean, I think that you have to be a pretty hardcore Volkswagen

nut to want to get, especially the black edition, which

blacks everything out, right?

Like it blacks the logo out, blacks the R out.

It keeps it all super dark.

When you combine that with the Eurostar package,

this is a very specific customer for this car that's big into VWs.

But even the standard Golf R is pretty hardcore.

So I think for most folks, the GTI is probably enough.

But if you live in Colorado and you want this to be your only car,

having that all-wheel drive is a great option.

I mean, look, once upon a time, like I said, when I was a kid,

hot hatches were the thing.

And I think when we had the Fiesta and then the Focus ST, and then

eventually the, what was the top dog?

The R. What was that thing called?

Focus, I can't think of it now.

Was it the R?

Wasn't the R. See, you're becoming like me.

I remember.

Yeah, my brain is not working.

Anyway, that was kind of the high watermark, right?

When you had the STI, not just the WRX.

And then, of course, Honda brought back the Civic Type R.

And now we're kind of past it.

Oh, Focus RS.

Focus RS, yeah.

We're kind of past that moment.

And so for some mysterious reason, the STI is gone.

Hopefully, there's a rumor that it might be coming back at the Tokyo

Auto Show, which we'll be at.

Yeah.

Actually, Tokyo Motor Show, if I'm being,

Motor Salon, if I'm being technically correct.

But why is this no longer a hot hatch?

Why is this now a regular old sedan with a trunk?

Well, in the last couple of generations,

Subarus moved away from the hatchback, which

I think has been kind of a miss, because that

was one of the things that made the WRX iconic for a long time.

But look, at least they still do it, right?

The fact you can get a manual transmission

in this car with a really cool all-wheel drive system.

I mean, in 2025, the fact that they even offer that at all

is something that I think is impressive that Subaru's doing.

And really, this is a standard WRX.

If you were to buy this car today as specced,

it would be about $39,000.

Which is not bad.

But really, the more direct comparison

would be the TS version of this to the Golf R,

especially with the Eurosoft package.

And that one's going to be about $50,000.

So the WRX, you can still get pretty affordably,

especially in the lower end.

But once you start looking at the upper end,

you're looking at over $50,000.

Wouldn't this be a great opportunity

to have a TS right here to show against the Golf R?

But why don't we have a TS, Tommy?

Well, Subaru doesn't work with us.

Yes, that's why.

So this is actually our producer, Zach's car.

And he's been really nice letting

us use it in all these races.

And I have to say, I did talk to Subaru.

And they said that we weren't blacklisted.

But apparently, since I talked to them like two months ago,

there have been no Subarus that have shown up.

So I guess we're not not blacklisted?

Yeah, I don't know.

All right, I'm having a little bit of fun.

But let's talk about this.

Like you said, this is our producer, Zach's car.

I do love the color orange.

It's kind of the hot new color for 2025, along with green.

And I think style-wise, people hated or hate

these big black flares.

What do you think?

Well, the rumor is that the STI is going

to go to a body-colored flare.

Look, I think that Subaru, they've

moved to that kind of chunky design on the Crosstrek,

it's on the Forester, it's definitely on the new Outback.

So they're keeping it within the family.

I don't think it looks as bad as people thought

it did when this car came out.

The bigger issue with this car is that it just didn't move

the needle up that much further compared to the old,

I think it was the V8 and VB generation.

So it only got three more horsepower.

This is the FA24 engine, 268 horsepower.

The old one was like 265.

And then the STI had the EJ, and that was making 300.

So 268 horsepower, the one thing I will say

is consistently in our performance testing,

this engine does seem to perform better

than the numbers would indicate.

So even though 268 is far less than what the GR Corolla makes,

in the real world, this car actually beat the GR Corolla.

And that's why we're racing against the Gulf Fire,

which surprised us when it beat the GR Corolla in a drag race.

So I'm curious to see what it does against the Gulf Fire.

Now, the Gulf Fire does have launch control,

which is going to make it a tough competitor.

For sure, yeah, 100%.

I don't know if this is going to beat the,

with launch control, that Gulf Fire is a monster off the line.

This is a six-speed manual.

But I think without launch control,

it might be closer than you think.

But of course, flat four, 2.4 liter engine,

makes a very distinctive sound.

It's got a very distinctive character,

which I kind of enjoy over the Volkswagen in some ways,

having that little grumble.

But we'll see.

We'll see how it does.

What car are we missing from the market?

Well, GR Corolla, we don't have here.

No, no, from the market, not from here.

What do you got?

The Evo.

What happened to the Evo?

Oh yeah, well, what happened to Mitsubishi?

Yeah, exactly.

Where is Mitsubishi?

Where are our friends from Mitsubishi?

They should be here with the Evo.

Why did that car die?

Although, did you see the news or rumors?

Is there an Evo coming back?

No, there's not.

But there is a really cool off-road Outlander coming.

Okay.

There were some spy shots of it this week.

Here, you wanna go inside and show them the interior?

Yeah, sure.

Now, the one thing where this does get let down

a little bit is the interior.

They both have issues, while the, in my mind at least,

the Golf R is a little too screeny, let's call it that.

This is a little too basic in some ways.

Well, I just think that it's a little cheap.

It looks like the-

Well, you said, I don't wanna make Zach feel bad.

No, he would agree, I think.

I mean, this is very similar to the interior

you'd find in like a $24,000 Crosstrek, right?

Or Impreza, I should say.

Crosstreks are more expensive now.

And to be fair,

Hot Hatches did start with very basic interiors.

Sure, yeah, but it's functional.

Like, it's got, I like that it has physical controls

and buttons on the steering wheel.

Right, it's got real switches, knobs, clicky things,

versus the Golf R, it's got an old haptic.

That's great.

I also like that we've got physical controls here

for temperature, for volume.

So there's a lot of really nice things

about having a basic interior.

It's just that there's no contrast in terms of color.

It's all very black and gray.

Thankfully, the seats do have some contrast.

I think these Subaru seats are excellent.

They're in some ways better than the Volkswagens,

even though they don't look as flashy.

But yeah, I mean, if you want,

I think at a used car, this one's just a slightly used WRX.

These are great, great deals.

I think we have Toyota to thank

for the resurgence of these cars,

because until the GR Corolla came around,

this segment was pretty much just dying and dead.

And you can still get this car with a six-speed manual,

so a six-speed manual or CVT.

And thank goodness they still have the six-speed.

And now with Corolla around,

I think that's one of the reasons,

because the rumor for a long time

was that the STI was gonna go all electric.

But now I think with Corolla,

what happened was the other car companies

saw that Toyota could actually build a car

that had some buzz to it, that sold well.

And so maybe they thought to themselves,

maybe this market segment isn't dead as we thought.

And all of a sudden, we've got Subaru coming back,

we've got hopefully Golf R coming back to its roots,

or the Golf period.

And maybe there is a resurgence of hot hatches,

which would make me so very happy.

Well, the rumor is that Tokyo this year,

they're gonna show an electric and a gas STI.

So they're gonna show both of them.

Which one do you think will sell better?

Well, yeah, I think that the electric one's

kind of dead in arrival in the US.

But a gas STI with 350 horse,

I think would be hugely popular.

So I'm really excited to get these two out on the airstrip

and see what they'll do in the quarter mile.

Now, for all of you budding YouTubers,

you will note that the death of any car on YouTube

is the color black, that's why we never buy black cars.

And while some people out there

may think it looks sinister in person,

if you're looking at it on camera,

all you're probably seeing is a big black hole

in space right there,

because it just sucks up all the light

and really don't see the lines,

nor do you see the kind of the design

that a lot of the designers put into it.

Well, this is the black edition.

So it's like, it's black on black on black.

So everything has been darkened on this car.

They got rid of that ugly honeycomb.

Remember the honeycomb that used to be on the front of it?

I love the honeycomb.

I didn't like the honeycomb.

Oh, you didn't like the honeycomb?

And they had those weird lights in the honeycomb.

I just thought that was awkward.

And now it looks more purposeful.

They made, yeah, they've squared it out a little bit.

When the Mark VIII first launched,

it was a little too round.

Yeah, I mean, I think that this is a very attractive car.

I just have a hard time justifying $53,000

for a Volkswagen Golf.

So would you get the GTI?

Yes, for sure.

And then the other thing too,

I had the chance to drive this car on ice in Sweden,

and the performance envelope is so high.

The goodness of driver you have to be

to really exploit the engineering

and the torque differentials

and all of the technology built into this car,

you have to be such a good driver

to really get the most of it, which I'm not.

So I think I would have just as much fun with the GTI.

Or actually, I wouldn't get a GTI anymore either

because they don't have a manual.

The one to get right now is the GLI.

So that's the very last manual transmission Volkswagen makes.

I don't even think they sell it in Europe, a manual GLI.

That's a Jetta though.

Yeah, they don't sell the GLI at all in Europe, in fact.

Correct me if I'm wrong,

but I'm pretty sure that's the case now.

But yeah, it's a Jetta, right?

It doesn't quite have the same quality.

It's got a lot older interior,

but for the value that that car is

with the manual transmission, that's the one to get.

All right, let me ask you this before we wrap this up.

What's kind of the,

okay, a year ago, maybe two years ago,

I would have said that the manual is dead,

but now there's been a resurgence in manuals.

Should we pull up some seats just real quick

and finish this off?

Sure.

Yeah, can you hold that call

or do you wanna put it down?

You got it?

All right, so if you were buying a manual,

manual sports car or a sporty car,

what would you get?

So you just drove the Toyota entry,

which would be the new Final Edition 86.

What's that one called?

No, it's Final Edition Supra.

Supra.

Or the Yuzu 86.

86, yes.

So plus there's a Miata, of course,

which is also in $35,000 to $40,000 range.

If we're looking at affordable

and we're not talking used, we're talking new cars,

what would you get in a manual?

It's gotta be a manual, it's gotta be sporty.

Well, I'd come back to the GLI.

Yeah, really?

I really do like the GLI.

The GR Corolla's phenomenal,

but the last one I drove was $46,000,

which is just a lot of money for a Corolla.

How much is the 86?

They were like 38, I think.

You see the exhaust on that thing?

Yeah, it's very loud.

It's a little too loud.

You can get them for like mid 30s.

I like that car a lot.

I just think at altitude,

it struggles a little bit being naturally aspirated.

So I think I just, I really,

something about that GLI, for the money,

low $30,000 range, manual transmission,

two liter turbo, four doors, so it's somewhat practical.

Simple, basic, old technology, so it's easy to use.

That's the one I would go for right now.

So the problem, from my point of view,

is I've just been spoiled.

Maybe you've been spoiled because, of course,

I made this criteria, it has to be new.

But if you include used, what car would you get?

What would you get?

Once you drive that Viper, there's no coming back.

Oh, yeah, sure.

For $40,000, which is in the realm of these,

you can get yourself a first-gen Viper

that's got 10 cylinders, that's got 400 and what,

80 horsepower, and then it's got a wonderful manual,

and the fun-to-drive quotient on that vehicle

is just off the scale.

There are some catastrophic issues with the Viper.

Yeah, forget the interior's horrible.

We have no roof, we have no windows.

There are issues.

Well, we should say we have no permanent roof

or permanent windows.

I mean, the problem is every time I drive the Viper,

I fall in love with them.

I'm like, wow, I'd love to buy this.

And then I think about how terrible it would be

to own with a wife.

It would be, because you can't just roll up the window

if it's too windy, right?

Oh, you want the window?

Case discovered something else.

So tell them what you just did.

That was another thing you did.

Tell them about the video.

Yeah, we did a dyno run.

If we're looking used, I would get a Corvette, 100%.

We did a dyno run with our C401 and the Dodge Viper.

And the Viper put down crazy numbers,

360 horsepower to the wheels,

which was just pretty mind-blowing considering,

you know, that car only was supposed to do 400,

brand new, 30 years ago.

And it did 445 pound feet of torque to the wheels,

which is unreal.

The 01?

No, the Viper.

Oh, the Viper.

Yeah, it did 445 pound feet.

And that car was supposed to do 265 at the crank,

brand new.

What did the 01 do?

01 did like 296 to the wheels.

And that one's a little down.

We gotta figure out where the horses went

in that one a little bit.

So we're gonna be sorting that out, hopefully.

Yeah, hopefully, in the coming videos, yep.

That's why that $2,000 that you're gonna pay me

for that P38 is gonna come in handy,

because I can then just hand it over to Jordan,

who can then diagnose the problem with the 01,

and then we can fix it.

But here's something interesting the case found out

with the Viper.

When you guys were trying to get back from the springs,

which is actually a long way to drive that.

Sure.

It apparently started raining,

and he didn't put the windows in or put the top on.

And when you turn the windshield wipers on,

it squirts the water to the side of the windshield.

But since there's no side windows,

the water just comes right around into your face.

Yeah, that's awesome.

Yeah, no, the Viper, I mean,

part of the appeal to the Viper

is it's so ridiculously unhinged, which is awesome.

But that's also the biggest problem with it,

is it's pretty miserable as like a car to live with.

Well, it's a Cobra competitor.

Yeah, and it's very much, that's what it is.

On a nice day, there's nothing better.

If the day is even 10% less than nice,

you're gonna be pretty miserable.

So the solution there is, you know,

that's your car and don't take your lovely wife in it.

Take her in that old Mercedes you have.

What happened with, by the way,

that old Mercedes you have.

Yeah, that also broke.

Yeah, everything's broken right now.

I don't know, that's something in the,

I was driving it, it was running perfectly,

and then parked it and started it,

and something in the carburetor let go.

Now it's running on three cylinders?

No, it's got, it's a single carb 250C

instead of a dual carb 250C.

So that's another project I gotta figure out.

So, yeah, lots of stuff broken around here,

which is never a lot of fun.

So, and then the Fiat broke last weekend too.

Your 124 stopped running over 2,000 RPM.

So hopefully that's fixed.

So we switched out the fuel filter.

We're thinking that maybe there's like rust or something

in the fuel tank that clogged it up,

because it just ran out of power going uphill,

which usually is an indicator that it's not.

Something's not delivering, yeah.

So, yeah, we'll see.

Our ad guy, Grant, has this weekend.

So if he calls us in about 30 minutes,

we know it's not fixed.

Well, I told him.

I told him to fill it up with gas just so that, you know,

because we had run it kind of toward the bottom of the tank,

which would concentrate any rust that's in the tank.

Yeah, for sure.

So, yeah, this is the life of having used cars.

Well, I think this has been an hour well worth spending,

Tommy.

Do you have to go install something at the house?

I do.

I have to go install something at the house,

and you got to do a video with our Tesla Model S,

which we're selling.

So if you're interested in a 2014 Tesla Model S

with unlimited supercharging for the life of the car,

free, also free connectivity, it's 12,000,

no, sorry, 13,900 is what we're asking.

So if you're interested,

shoot us an email at info at TFL Car.

We sorted it out.

I just had it at Tesla, spent over $3,000 on it,

because we love to sort things out.

We don't want to sell cars that aren't sorted.

So everything now works as it should.

And the car is 104,000 miles.

Battery is still over 91%.

Nice.

And yeah, it's time to find a new home.

All right, guys.

Well, if you want that car, send us an email,

and stay tuned for this drag race.

It'll be a really fun one.

We'll see you next time.

Remember, head on over to altfl.com

for all of our news, views, and real world reviews.

See you next time.

Ciao.

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50:54

Ep. 307: Is The Hot Hatch Back - Subaru WRX vs VW Golf R!

Subaru STI

Dark Horse

About this episode

Original notes