TFL Car Chat Oct 27, 2025

Ep. 308: Should We Buy It? Making Financially Terrible Decisions Can Be Fun!

Annotations will appear as you listen

0:00

67:35

Car

Jeep CJ2

The Jeep CJ2 is an old model of Jeep made in 1946. It's famous for being tough and is often used for off-road driving.

Car

Ford Explorer

The Ford Explorer is a type of SUV that first came out in 1990. The first version is known for being roomy and good for families.

Car

Land Rover Range Rover

The P38 Range Rover is a luxury SUV made by Land Rover, known for its off-road capabilities and comfortable ride.

Car

Toyota Tercel

The Toyota Tercel is a small, affordable car that was known for being reliable and great on gas.

Car

Jeep

Jeep is a brand that makes tough vehicles, often used for off-roading and adventure driving.

Car

The Jeep Wrangler is a tough, off-road vehicle that can handle rough terrain. It's known for its unique look and the ability to take off parts like the doors and roof for a more open driving experience.

Term

automatic emergency braking

Automatic emergency braking helps prevent accidents by automatically stopping the car if it senses that a crash is about to happen. It uses cameras and sensors to see what's in front of the car.

Term

lane keep assist

Lane keep assist helps drivers stay in their lane by gently steering the car back if it starts to drift. It uses cameras to see the lane markings on the road.

Term

lane centering

Lane centering helps keep the car in the middle of the lane by adjusting the steering automatically. It's like having a helper that makes sure you don't drift to one side.

Car

Opel Rekord

The Opel Rekord is a car that was made by the German company Opel. It was popular in Europe and known for being a good, affordable family car.

Brand

Skoda

Skoda is a car brand from the Czech Republic. They make different types of cars, including small cars and larger ones.

Car

Jeep YJ

The Jeep YJ is a type of Jeep Wrangler made between 1987 and 1995. It's recognized for its rugged look and ability to drive off-road, which many people enjoy.

Car

Toyota RAV4

The Toyota RAV4 is a small SUV that many people use for family trips and daily driving. It's known for being dependable and has good safety features.

Car

Tesla Model Y

The Tesla Model Y is a popular electric car that looks like a small SUV. It's known for being eco-friendly, having a long battery life, and lots of cool tech features.

Term

plug-in hybrid

A plug-in hybrid is a type of car that uses both gas and electricity. You can plug it into a wall outlet to charge its battery, which helps it drive on electricity for a longer time before using gas.

Term

GR Sport

GR Sport is a special version of some Toyota cars that are designed to be sportier and more fun to drive. They usually have better handling and a sportier look than regular models.

Term

Woodland trim

The Woodland trim is a special version of the Toyota RAV4 made for off-roading. It has features that help it handle rough terrain better than regular RAV4 models.

Car

Toyota TRD

TRD is a special performance brand from Toyota that makes cars and trucks better for racing and off-roading.

Concept

Tommy, in today's podcast, I asked you why you named your 1946 Jeep CJ2 a Wilbur.

Yeah, that's right.

And we're also going to show why it's lost its entire body.

But there's a lot more going on because we're going to talk about everything you need to

know about the best selling car in the USA.

And we've got maybe some exciting news.

We're bidding on another car.

Yeah, should we buy a first generation Ford Explorer and name it Wilbur?

No, not Wilbur.

The Jeep is already a Wilbur.

Name it Perry.

Perry.

Perry is the P38 Range Rover.

Perry is a Tercel.

The Explorer could be Perry.

So we've got a lot of confusing names in today's podcast.

We also have a really fun discussion about how I might go bankrupt trying to fix an old

Jeep and how the company might go bankrupt trying to buy an old Explorer.

I'll say we name it Harry.

All right.

Let's get right into the podcast.

Hey, Tommy, I'm driving into work this morning.

Yep.

And I almost got hit by a Wrangler.

Oh boy.

I was parked at that stoplight right by our house and I'm just sitting there listening

to my podcasts and all of a sudden I look at my rear and there's this that is like coming

right at me and doesn't look like they're going to stop.

Whoa.

And it was driven by a lady.

So I actually drove out into the intersection before she figured out that there was a car

that was stopped at the stoplight.

Wow.

And then I look in my review mirror and guess what?

What?

Guess what she was doing?

Texting.

She was not just texting.

She was texting, vaping and doing her makeup at the same time.

Well, there's a lot going on.

There's a lot going on.

Dizzy person right there.

Texting, vaping and doing her eye makeup.

So she was looking in the review mirror while she was looking down on her phone while she

was vaping.

Wow.

Okay.

So she eye makeup, texting, vaping all at the same time.

Well, would she have hit you if you're not moving?

Yeah.

She would hit me.

Yeah.

And I almost got hit because there was a bus coming the other way and I drove into the

middle of the intersection.

Luckily the bus stopped.

Wow.

I'm just thinking to myself, not only is this crazy, but is this something that like 20

years from now, your generation is going to look back upon and say like, remember the

crazy stuff we used to do in cars?

You think that that is something that is not going to happen anymore?

You think people are going to realize just how dangerous that is?

Or is it something that's just too human in us where we can't help but like we're so

addicted to, you know, the phone, we're so addicted to looking good.

We're so addicted to, in this case, I guess nicotine that, you know, we're putting ourselves

other people in danger.

What's your take on that?

It's definitely going to get worse and worse and worse and worse.

Oh yeah.

For sure.

Yeah.

I mean, I think that, you know, probably back in the sixties, people were also distracted,

but they were distracted by other things, right?

They were always smoking in cars or they had nine kids in the back with no seatbelts just

wobbling around.

Right?

There's always things that have distracted us.

But I think today it's in some ways worse because now people can rely on automatic emergency

braking and lane keep assist and lane centering and then they're able to, you know, be more

distracted and still operate their cars.

Yeah.

I don't know.

So I remember I asked your grandma when, you know, when I got a little bit older, why

didn't you guys know that, so your grandfather smoked a lot?

Sure.

And in fact, I remember when they moved to Switzerland from the Czech Republic and they

bought their very first new car, which was an Opel record.

Uh-huh.

Remember this car?

I do.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, I don't personally remember the car, but I do know of the car.

So they had a Skoda and they bought this Opel record as a way of like, you know, showing

that they had finally made it in Switzerland and I was just a little guy.

I was, you know, I was like five years old at the time and my mom, your grandma didn't

smoke, but your grandfather smoked a lot.

And one of the things that they did to celebrate buying this car was my mom, like, lit up a

cigarette to help celebrate the fact that they had this car.

Uh-huh.

So now there's brand new car with the brand new car smell and they're both like, you know,

chugging away on cigarettes to help celebrate this.

And I fast forward like 30 years later and I asked my mom, like, didn't you know that

this was bad for you?

And she was like, no, we had no idea that smoking was bad for you.

She thought we just thought it was kind of normal, just like, you know, when, when she

got pregnant, they celebrated it by having her drink champagne.

Like that was another thing.

Right.

You see what I'm saying?

Like back then, I guess it was normal for people to, and I'm wondering, was it normal

or was it just something that they knew was bad?

Like this woman, I'm sure knew that it was bad to text, vape and do makeup.

And yet she did it anyway.

Yeah, but it doesn't stop people.

But do you think that they, do you think you believe your grandmother when she said

we didn't know that it was bad?

Or do you think that they maybe knew that it was bad, but because it was like part

of what you did at that time, that they did it anyway?

Yeah, I mean, I think the results are the same, right?

It doesn't really matter if they knew or not, they kept doing it, right?

People still smoke today, even though we know it's bad.

So yeah, I mean, I don't think it's going to get better.

I think that it's just going to kind of, you know, I think it's going to get worse,

especially now that we're all consumed and everything online is on our phones.

So yeah, distraction driving is bad, but thankfully or maybe not thankfully,

the cars are getting safer.

So like if that, if that lady was in a new Jeep, it wasn't a new Jeep, it was a YJ.

Yeah, well, that was your screw.

But she probably would have hit, she probably would have stopped before

hitting you if she was in a new Wrangler because they've got emergency breaking,

right?

So that would have slammed on the brakes or at least minimized a potential accident.

Well guys, welcome to cigarette chat.

Yeah, exactly.

No, it's just car chat.

Thanks for joining us.

Today it's Tommy and myself and today's topic isn't distracted driving,

but it is the RAV4.

I want to welcome all of our Patreon supporters.

Sorry about the little lake getting going.

We had some technical issues, which we sorted out.

So if you want to participate in this live conversation, you can do it by

where we're going, where Tommy, Patreon.com slash TFL car.

And we've got a bunch of Patreon supporters that make this show possible

and they can watch the stream live, which is very cool.

So big thank you to everybody who helps us out on Patreon.

Even the tiniest donation is worth hundreds of thousands of views.

So we really appreciate all the people that support us.

Yeah, and today's topic is not, like I said, dopamine addiction or cigarette

smoking, but it is the new RAV4, which is the most popular car in the world,

as Jeremy Clarkson would say.

Yeah, I think it was the RAV4.

Sorry, RAV4.

What did I say?

I think it's the Model Y was the most popular car in the world,

but it was surpassed recently by the RAV4, which is also the most popular

car in America.

So you're saying that globally for a while there, they sold more Model Ys?

Wow, that's crazy.

Yeah, for a while.

Yeah, Tesla was on a tear.

Maybe that was why their stock is so incredibly overvalued, in my opinion.

But anyway, right now it is the RAV4 and they just introduced three new versions of it.

Yeah, so Toyota's kind of going all in on the RAV4, which makes sense

because they sell like, I don't know, I think it's like 400,000 or 550,000 last year.

Yeah, it's a huge number.

It's a huge number.

They build them in like three factories to keep up with demand.

So typically, Toyota has a few different other core models.

They have like the LE, the XLE, XSE Limited.

They've got the plug-in hybrid version.

But now they're kind of trying to separate some of the models

into their own little sub model slash brands.

So what we're looking at now is we've got the core models.

So LE, XLE, Limited, and maybe XSE too.

Then you also have this new sporty model called the GR Sport,

which is supposed to be like its own little thing over here,

the little high performance version.

And then you've got the Woodland, which is kind of the off-roading trim of the RAV4.

So now we've got the core, the sport model, the off-road model.

So we've got a bunch of videos out.

So Cole, if you could go to our off-road channel,

let's start with the Woodster, as I like to call it, because I hate the Woodland.

I just, it used to be called the Adventure, which I thought was better.

But Toyota said that, or it used to be called the TRD,

but Toyota basically said that they're no longer going to call it the TRD

because that's going to be a moniker they're going to save for body on frame vehicles.

So now what you're looking at here, if you're watching this on YouTube

or if you're listening to it as a podcast, then you can head on over to TFL Talk

and watch it as a video.

We're looking at the new Woodland trim, Tommy.

What do you think of this?

Well, you know what's interesting is they use Woodland in the old one too.

Did they? I thought it was the Adventure.

Cole, if you want to close out here and then go to that little tab yet open.

These are the 25s. Yeah.

Look at that Woodland.

Oh, look at that.

So I don't think it's a very common trim,

but they did actually do a Woodland in the current RAF4.

But now the new one, they're kind of going much, much further than in the old one.

This is the old RAF4.

Let's go back to the new one, Cole.

So let's go back to the video because you got to drive it off-road.

Now, unfortunately, what happened was the program for this, that is not it.

There it goes.

The program for this vehicle happened in Arizona,

and they had like flash flooding in Arizona and Phoenix of all places.

And so they kind of had to switch the off-road course.

So let's face it, if you're watching this, it's kind of a dirt road.

Yeah, the off-roading was incredibly, unbelievably mild.

But I don't think there's much more you can do with the Woodster, as you call it, Dad.

Thank you.

Because this is mostly an appearance package.

So you get different front fascia.

You get little rigid off-road lights,

which is nice.

You get some interior trims, some bright accents on the inside.

You got a roof rack, which is cool with the crossbars.

But in terms of off-road capability, the main difference between the Woodland

and the standard one is going to be a set of mild terrain tires and wheels.

And I think that gives you a little bit of additional lift because they're a little

taller.

But apart from that, it's not like you get underbody protection.

You don't get skid plates.

You don't get recovery points, right?

It's a very, very mild appearance pack.

And we might know why because we did a video earlier this week where

in Japan at least they unveiled the new FJ, the Land Cruiser FJ,

which would compete with this if they actually, I'm settling in here in America.

Except the FJ is a real off-roader because it's got a locking rear diff.

It's got real off-road credentials.

So it's got the snorkel.

It's got the rock rails.

It's got a much more aggressive off-road approach.

I just think there's no way to bring that to America.

I'm saying if they did, I mean, the way the current lineup of off-roaders works in America

is you would start with the Woodland, the Woodster, then you'd go to the forerunner

in terms of money.

Then with more money, you get the Land Cruiser and eventually you go to the Sequoia.

And then if you wanted to actually get the real Land Cruiser, the 300 series,

you'd have to go to the Lexus.

But there might be an argument being made here that this is me, conspiracy theoroman here,

if you are going to have a true off-roader that slots in, let's say, the $30,000 to $45,000 range,

then you would want to keep the RAV4 relatively more on-road worthy and just have kind of an

appearance trim versus having a real off-roader so that there is room for that new FJ to slot

in underneath the forerunner.

That's my conspiracy theory.

It's a fun thought, but I just think that it's too much.

Then you've got the forerunner directly competing with the smaller Land Cruiser.

And then the bigger Land Cruiser is not that much bigger than the smaller Land Cruiser.

But the forerunner already competes with the $250,000.

But not on pricing.

I mean, a little bit, but it starts at $40,000.

They overlap.

Just a little, though.

Not that much.

Not that little.

Our's was $57,000.

Yeah, I guess.

And the Land Cruiser starts at $55,000.

Realistically, now it's $58,000.

They raise the pricing.

But the forerunner starts at $40,000.

Yeah.

So that's a big difference, right?

And this thing's going to be $40,000.

Yeah.

Right, the woodland.

Anyway, that's my theory.

You might be right.

I might be barking up the wrong tree.

But why not?

To bring the FJ, I think I would certainly be much more interested in it than this woodland RAV4.

Let's go back to this one.

Let's talk about it some more.

So the big news, of course, for 2026 is what?

That all RAV4s are either hybrid or plug-in hybrid.

Yep, that's right.

And I was reading one of the comments.

Yeah, there's not a good approach angle.

No.

You're kind of bashing the plate underneath,

showing that the thing does not have a very good approach angle.

And I was reading the comments today on the RAV4 videos that came out.

And one of the first comments was, no, thanks.

I don't want to hybrid.

And my first thought and actually typed it as a response is what?

You don't like fuel economy more power?

Yeah, I mean, that's true.

That's a great point.

So like you said, every RAV4 is now electrified in some way or another.

So like a standard gas one is not an option.

Which I think is overall a really good thing for the product.

Because like you said, not only does it have better fuel economy,

but it gets like 17 to 23 more horsepower than the old one.

And it's able to do that with more power.

Plus it's a Toyota hybrid system.

And these things go, there's kind of a myth

that you got to replace batteries.

But for the most part, we're looking at,

on the typical Toyota hybrid, two, three, 400,000 miles

on the original battery.

Yeah, they're very conservative.

Yeah, they really don't fail because Toyota is so conservative

on how much of that actual battery pack they use.

So batteries really last a long time.

If instead of using 100% of its capacity, you use like 80 or 70.

But Toyota uses like 50 or 60 typically.

So they use a really small chunk of the battery,

which means that you're not putting any strain on the battery,

which means that it lasts forever.

Well, let's also talk about that for a second.

Because I think people have, and it's very confusing, right?

You've got like 14 different kinds of electrified vehicles,

everything from pure electric to hybrid, to plug-in hybrids,

to extended range vehicles, to E-Rabs.

It's all very confusing.

But let's start with the basic hybrid,

the thing that the Prius introduced,

which is what this has, right?

This is a basic hybrid.

So if this were a pure electric car,

you might have a 70 kilowatt hour battery,

which is a big-ass battery.

Now, in this vehicle, I believe it's less than that, isn't it?

It's like one point something.

One point two.

So it's a little tiny, tiny battery.

And it's really only being used to help supplement the gas motor.

So in between shifts, for instance,

or maybe when you're driving slowly and getting going,

or maybe when you're stopped at the stoplight,

so that you can keep the air conditioner on.

It's not basically getting used more

than the starter battery, than the 12-volt battery.

So this is a whole different Bolo Wax than a pure EV.

And Toyota has figured this out.

In fact, most manufacturers have figured out traditional hybrids

where they're just as long-lasting,

where they're just as robust,

where you get the benefits of more power

and better fuel economy.

When I say better fuel economy,

I'm talking about really better fuel economy.

Like, this thing could get like 50 MPG.

Well, to clarify, it's more than a mild hybrid.

So it's not just the starter motor.

Right, I know, I know.

And the 48-volt system.

Like, this is a real...

The vehicle can operate on electricity only.

It can drive, and turn, and stop.

What's a mile?

Yeah, but it's...

Like you said, it really is an E-assist system

where it'll help you get going.

It'll help any time a gasoline engine

is not an efficient way to move a car.

For example, starting and stopping,

accelerating at slow speeds.

That's where the hybrid system comes in and supplements.

And so when people get really worried about the fact,

and I'm sure our viewers,

because you've been with us a long time,

are smarter than this, you know this,

but this is basically an evolution of the system

that the Prius brought to America back 25 years ago.

This is not new technology.

This has been around.

This has been established.

This has been perfected.

And if you're worried, like that commenter was that,

oh, I don't want a hybrid,

because it's going to make the car, whatever, less reliable,

you're way off base.

In fact, it's going to save you a ton.

I mean, come on, 50 MPG for that?

That's incredible.

When I was a young man,

my...

Your grandfather, I keep going back to that, had an LTD.

I think when the gas crisis hit,

my dad would have been happy to get 15 MPG out of that thing.

15.

I think the Woodland is 43 combined,

and I think that the best is 44 combined.

If you get the...

Yeah, so maybe you might hit the high 40s in the city,

but they're mid 40s overall,

which is still amazing.

That's still an incredible feat out of what's now pretty big SUV.

The only downside potentially with the Toyota hybrid system

is there's no drive shaft that goes from the gasoline engine

to the back of the car to power the differential.

Instead, they use an e-all-wheel drive system.

So they've got the electric motors and the gas engine in the front,

and they've got a third electric motor at the back

for powering the rear wheels.

Now, when he first launched these,

that little rear motor was pretty weeny in terms of its output.

I remember the Prius that had it,

it would only go up to 25 miles an hour.

Something like that, yeah.

It was basically meant to help you get going in snowy conditions.

Yeah, but the new ones now are pretty beefy and meaty,

and the reason they do this is A, efficiency.

You don't have to spin a drive shaft

and deal with that parasitic loss.

And then B, packaging.

It's a lot easier to run a wire down the middle of a car

instead of a big chunky drive shaft that takes up interior volume.

So I think for most people in this category,

in this type of car,

the EOL drive system is probably fine,

but we're going to have to get it out to Colorado

and put it on the rollers and see how it performs on their slip test,

and then that'll give us a good idea of what the snow performance will be like.

Let me be very clear, it's not something new either.

Lexus, the most popular Lexus,

which sells a Bowton, the RX,

has had that system now for like two generations.

Oh.

Or more, three generations.

I think like O5 or something.

Yeah, so it's been around a long time.

It's 20 years now.

I mean, in your slip testing,

we found that it's not as good as having a drive shaft,

especially when you're talking about dedicated off-road use.

But when you're on the road,

I mean, think about it this way,

you don't have all the parasitic loss of that rear drive shaft spinning.

So you can turn that electric motor on the rear wheels only when you need it.

Mm-hmm, yeah.

Yeah, so it makes a lot of sense to,

what are some of the comments on the video?

Well, Tommy G on Patreon says,

Wooden looks like the Rock Creek Rogue,

not impressive at all.

Yeah, that's a pretty good comparison.

It's also very similar to like the CR-V Trail Sport.

If you actually want to go take your small crossover off-road,

there's really only one good option.

Yeah, the Broncosport.

Which is the Broncosport.

Yeah, because that's the only car in this class.

Maybe the Forrester Wilderness, I've never driven it.

But the Broncosport can be added with a twin-clutch rear differential.

It can be had with recovery points, front and back, front and back,

real skid plates, especially you get the Sasquatch version.

It's got some crazy clearance.

That's the only one in the category where I'd be like,

yeah, let's go take this on a trail.

Yeah, and you just said you've never driven it.

I mean, that says a lot.

I've driven the Broncosport, not the Forrester.

That says a lot about a brand when they're afraid to give it to a channel

that exclusively tests off-road.

And especially a brand that purports to be,

and I'm talking about Subaru here, very off-road worthy.

So if you want us to prove it, and if you want us to recommend it,

then you got to loan us one to test it.

But otherwise, it feels like we're going to have to go with the Broncosport.

Shall we move on to the next unusual one, the new one that they introduced?

Yeah, so they also went the other way with the RAV4,

and they came out with a version called the GR Sport.

And I don't think our video is out on that one yet.

It's not.

As of filming. It'll be out tomorrow.

But all TFL.com will have all these videos ready to go.

But the GR Sport is kind of the opposite direction.

So it's a little bit lower than the standard RAV4.

So instead of like eight inches, it's down to 7.5.

They've re-tweaked the suspension in terms of damping.

They've added another bar to it.

They've stiffened it up.

They've reduced a lot of weight in the wheels.

I think like each wheel is 4.4 kilograms lighter than a standard RAV4.

And then it's only available as a plug-in hybrid,

and they give you all sorts of aerobits, right?

So it's got the grille, it's got the splitter,

it's got the big spoiler in the back.

It's got summer tires, if I remember correctly.

So this is kind of the performance option.

Yeah. And it's a little, for me, it's a little disappointing,

because when we went and looked at it when they first unveiled it,

I thought it had a lot of potential because I thought it's, you know,

it's in the tradition of the BMW X5M or X3M.

There's a lot of German premium vehicles that, because sports cars are kind of dying,

now people want their cake and they want to eat it too.

So they want the utility of an crossover,

but they also want the sportiness of a sports car.

And that's what these things do, and that's what this does.

But it really, yeah, there we go.

There we are.

We're showing the unveiling of it.

The problem with it, Tommy, is it's the GR Sport.

It's not the GR.

What does that mean?

Well, yeah, it's kind of like an AMG line or an M Sport line.

There's no more horsepower.

But it still has a lot of horsepower.

Three.

24.

Yeah.

So this has got the plug-in hybrid system.

So what this is, it's like the two and a half liter gasoline engine.

And then instead of having a one-ish kilowatt hour battery,

I think it's 17 kilowatt hours or is it 22?

I think it's 22.

I think it's 22 kilowatt hours.

Yeah.

So this is a plug-in hybrid.

So this is a really big battery.

What that means is that they're able to kind of access, you know,

more voltage, more capacity.

They're able to up the power a little bit.

Right?

So we're looking at 324 horsepower up from like 236.

And then.

But you could also get this plug-in hybrid in the non-GR Sport.

You can get it in the regular.

You can get it in like a woodland for example too.

Yeah.

And you'll have the same horsepower.

Yes.

I mean the upside to a plug-in hybrid is you can drive like 40 miles on pure electric.

I think this one's 48 or 50.

Or maybe 50.

Yeah, it's kind of a lot.

So the idea with this is you go home, you plug it in at night.

You can even plug it in on just a normal outlet because the battery is probably small enough

to just charge overnight.

And then you can drive to work.

You can go to the grocery store.

You can take the kids to school on electricity.

You're saving fuel in terms of cost.

You're saving intervals between oil changes.

You're saving wear on your gasoline engine.

You're still driving the car essentially as a full electric vehicle.

And then when you do need to extend your journey beyond 50 miles,

you've got a normal gasoline engine that'll turn on.

And take you across country if need be.

Yeah, but like I said, I wish they had just got a full GR on it.

You know, I wish they had given it a hot motor.

Yeah, sure.

Or you see power of the battery to give it more horsepower than your standard one.

Because at this point, it's basically an appearance package with some small performance gains.

100%.

Yeah.

And that to me is where kind of the magic falls off.

It's like the Lobo, right?

It does drive different.

Like it's stiffer.

Yeah.

You know, it definitely it's like we drove.

We drove really three main cars on this press trip in Arizona that Toyota flew us out to.

We drove the Woodland, the GR Sport and the XLE.

Those are the three we drove and actually drove a limited as well.

But the GR Sport did have the lowest firmest ride.

I wouldn't say it felt like a sports car.

You know, the steering was still really light,

although it was very artificially heavy in sport mode.

They retweet the EPS in sport mode.

But really, like you said, is mostly a looks fast option.

Yeah, it's like it's like it's like there's a little bit of poser to it, right?

When you don't increase the horsepower, it feels like the Maverick Lobo,

which is this cool sport truck.

But the problem with this and the Lobo is, let's say you pull up to a stoplight

and this is a little kid in me talking and you're sitting there at the stoplight

and you're in the GR and somebody next to you is in a bog standard RAV4 Prime.

You're in this GR Prime and the right light turns green and you both floor it.

You're both going to take off and go at the same speed.

And that just seems to me like the most important part of this they forgot,

which is adding horsepower.

Yeah, no, I could I could see where you're coming from.

I mean, the big thing we don't know about any of these is we don't know the pricing.

So Toyota hasn't announced pricing.

We do know that the standard RAV4 is going to go on sale starting in December.

We don't know how much it's going to cost.

And then we also know the plug and hybrid variants

like the GR Sport are coming next spring.

But if you had to guess, what do you think that that GR Sport costs?

Maybe close to 50.

Yeah, I think it'll be like 46 or 47.

Between 45 and 50 somewhere in there.

Yeah.

So it's going to be a lot of money.

And for that, if I was looking at a car, I could I could see myself going with a GR,

right?

Because you're going to have utility.

I mean a GR Corolla, sorry.

You're going to have utility and you're going to have horsepower

because at 45 you can get yourself a GR Corolla.

But that's a pretty tiny car.

It is a lot smaller, of course.

And it's a yeah.

But they're both all wheel drive.

Yeah, they are.

But like that's that's low to the ground.

It's got a small trunk.

Great.

The RAV4 is huge, right?

It's a big, big car.

And the silliest thing about it by far, and we don't have video.

This is exhaust.

It's got these two little tiny exhaust poking out the bottom that you can barely see.

It's the same as any other as any other one.

All right.

Shall we go to the last trim level, which is the most popular one?

Yeah.

So Cole, if you want to go to TFL car on YouTube, we have a video on this one.

So we drove the XLE, which is the volume seller.

So of all the RAV4s, this is the one that you're most likely going to see on the road.

Because it's your standard go-to family hauler.

So it's got the normal look to it.

It's got a pretty normal interior.

And this one we drove was just the base model powertrain,

front wheel drive with the hybrid, which I don't think previously you could get

if you want a front wheel drive.

I think you had to get the gas version only.

But now you can get a hybrid front wheel drive.

And this is honestly, this makes sense why they sell so many of these.

Because it's not an exciting car.

It's not trying to be something it's not.

It's just a very capable family hauler, grocery getter.

It's got a lot of good tech inside of it.

It's very comfortable.

The biggest surprise of these is they're very quiet and very softly sprung,

which I was really happy to see.

So they're kind of just like couches going down the road.

But it's all going to come down to price for this one with me.

Yeah.

So we figure they're going to be about the same as the outgoing model.

What manufacturers have been doing recently is they've been increasing the price,

but they've been adding features to it.

So what they'll tell you is, well, it costs 2,000 more than the outgoing model.

But now you get standard sunroof or something, right?

Yeah.

That's what they've been doing.

Hey, can we fast forward to this video to the inside?

Because we really haven't talked about the inside.

I think people are curious about what the inside looks like.

So let's, yeah, you're there.

Let's look at the interior of this vehicle.

This is an unusual feature.

Can you go back just a little bit?

I think we missed, yeah.

Watch what Tommy does here.

So you want to describe what you're doing?

Yeah.

So there's a center console lid in these RAV4s that's padded on one side.

And then if you push both buttons at the same time that pivoted open to the side,

you can actually pull it out and replace it with this little firm plastic cubby.

And that's, that's, you know, like a place to store change or your phone or whatever.

But then it also means you don't have any padding.

So it's kind of a cool little party trick,

but I don't think anyone is ever realistically going to use it

because the cubby side, it's a big square.

So unless you're trying to move like an iPad mini around without it sliding around,

I don't know what else you really use it for,

because things are going to kind of roll around.

And then it's very, very hard to put your elbow on.

So I think the padded side is going to remain up always on these cars.

I think giving the ability to take it out completely

means it's going to stay in the garage.

I'm going to lose it.

That's what happened if I owned the car at least.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah.

Let's talk about, you've got bigger screen now.

So this is, this is the big, there's two screens right there.

There's the one in front of the driver and there's the infotainment screen.

It's bigger than the outgoing one.

Yep. Yeah, if I remember right, it's like 14, I think you're exactly right.

Lots of wireless charging power.

So the standard ones get 45 watts.

For some reason, the plug-in hybrids only get 15

and I don't really understand why that is.

And this is the super confusing part.

There's two buttons basically for drive modes, depending on,

today it does this in a lot of their vehicles,

where you have like an on-road drive mode and an off-road drive mode.

And I'm like, why are you confusing people with two sets of drive modes?

What I mean, two sets, like there's two buttons,

so you can be on-road and then you can choose like from Eco, Sport,

Normal, and then you can be off-road and you can have like sand, snow, you know what I mean?

Yeah, they should just put them into one mode.

Yeah, for sure.

Because why you'd want to be in Sport and Sand or whatever at the same time,

I don't fully understand.

But look, the interior in this car has gotten a little bit more

chunky is how I would put it.

So everything's kind of.

I called it off-roading and you made fun of me.

Well, because it's not off-roading.

There's no central, there's no transfer case here.

It's just blocky, right?

You get these kind of big cubes of plastic.

So like the air vents are square.

I like the shifter.

The cup holders are square.

The shifter has two different shifters.

This is the mechanical shifter,

but you can also get it with this little toggle thing if you get like a limited.

Definitely get the standard shifter if you can.

Yeah, bigger screens, more technology.

You can get them really nicely equipped with sunroofs, ventilated seats, heated steering

wheels, you can get them a little bit more basic.

If you don't want some of those options,

you can get a big small screen, tons of different ways you can spec your RAV4.

But I mean, as a whole, I think that the interior is,

the whole car is not dramatically different than the old one.

Well, let's ask Cole.

Cole, you've got a RAV4.

What do you think?

He's got a mic there now.

He didn't turn it on.

Didn't turn your mic on.

Turn your mic on.

What do you, you've been watching this video.

What do you, you've got the previous generation,

not the current one, the one before this.

What do you think?

Do you like it?

I'll keep my $10,000 RAV4.

There you go.

Double the power.

Wise words.

Because he's got the V6.

Double the power.

Power, double the power.

You, my friend, have 269.

It's not quite double.

But he's got more cylinders.

Yes, he does have more cylinders.

50% more cylinders, actually.

Have you been happy with your RAV4?

Love it.

Yeah.

No, people, people that have RAV4.

That's why it's a world's best-selling car.

Both Cole and Mary have the same light blue RAV4.

Maybe Cole's a little bit less dented than Mary's.

Is yours a V6 too?

Yeah, they both have V6s.

Yeah, both high-performance units, for sure.

The new plug in hybrid, though, is actually quite a bit faster

than Cole's, unfortunately, for Cole.

Yeah, and size-wise.

It's about the same, actually, as the current one.

So the wheelbase is exactly the same.

And I think that the length is exactly the same,

except for the GR Sport and the Woodland

are like an inch or two longer because of the front facias.

Cargo space is a little bit down compared to CR-VR Rogue.

Backseat space, very, very adequate.

I mean, look, the problem is that once you start selling 450,000

of anything, you don't want to change it that much.

Yeah, true that.

Because you don't want to upset the people

that have already bought the car

and could be in line for buying a new one.

So they changed the styling.

They changed the screens and the technology a little bit.

But they gave it a little bit more power.

They gave it a little bit more fuel efficiency.

But it's not like a total revamp of what a RAV4 is.

Yeah, I mean, it is a new generation,

but this is always the same, right?

When the car is a best-seller,

it's always going to be evolutionary,

never revolutionary.

And so there's nothing there I could point to in a Tesla

where you have fart mode or you have something that's very slow.

There's no fart mode in the RAV4.

There's no fart mode.

The Japanese probably wouldn't do fart mode.

But there's nothing there that I'd be like,

oh, wow, I've never seen this before.

It does have one thing, which is unusual.

What's that?

It has an eco cruise control.

Tell me about it.

I don't know what that is.

It's pretty interesting.

It's got three different cruise control settings.

If you get, well, they actually all have a depth of cruise control.

It comes standard.

So you get normal cruise control,

which is you turn it on and it will just maintain 55 no matter what.

So like if the car in front of you slows down too bad,

you're running into it.

You've got adaptive cruise control, which we all know now,

where it'll slow down and speed up relative to traffic.

And then you've got eco adaptive cruise control.

Okay.

And what does that mean?

Well, what that does is it slows down and speeds up gently

relative to traffic to try to use less gas.

So people can just jump in front of you.

Exactly right.

Yeah.

If you're, if you're, if you're an aggressive driver,

eco cruise control is probably not a good option for you.

Can you read those comments?

I'm going to have my glasses on.

Yeah.

For sure.

A tad piece is give it the full DR treatment.

Give it a 1.5 cylinder hybrid electric turbo rotary.

That's a lot going on there.

There's a lot going on there.

Is that all kidding aside?

It actually looks pretty cool for a crossover.

Yeah.

I think that, you know, you better get darn used to these

because you're going to see a hundred billion of them

on your daily commute every single day.

So look, how do you think it compares to like the CR-V?

How do you think it compares to the road?

Well, I like his first comment.

I'm trying to read it.

Not sure why the manufacturers keep putting what amounts

to appearance packages on these dirt road cable vehicles

because people buy them.

That's what I keep doing.

Yeah.

I mean, there's this, there's this, especially with both

Korean manufacturers and Japanese manufacturers,

there's this now huge rush to make everything off-roady

without actually giving it real off-road cred.

So we just had, and there's different variations of that.

Let's talk about that.

So let's talk about how to just lend us a long-term passport

trail sport.

And for the latest generation, they did make it more off-road

worthy by giving it serious AT tires.

Yep.

By giving it recovery points.

Yes.

By giving it.

Rock rails.

By giving it rock rail.

Yep.

Standard tow hitch, which is great.

But they didn't give it kind of the most important,

because this is, I think the Japanese especially struggle

with this and that is more ground clearance,

except for Subaru for some reason.

Yeah.

So when we, in our testing, the problem is it's got all this

off-road stuff, real off-road stuff,

but then it's got, I think, eight inches of ground clearance

and so a big rock is going to scrape the bottom.

I think it also had some skid plates, right?

Yeah, skid plates, yeah, for sure.

But for me, the litmus test, Tommy, the litmus test,

whether it's a real off-roader or not, is, of course,

doesn't have a low range.

Yeah, for sure.

And they never do that.

They never add, you know, they'll add electronics

so that it approximates, you know,

different kinds of off-road terrain responses

and downhill terrain support.

What is that called?

Downhill, you know.

Hill descent control.

Hill descent control, yeah, and all this stuff.

But if it doesn't have a low range,

it's kind of like you're just playing at it.

But I don't.

That's my bottom line.

I don't necessarily blame them for not doing it.

All right.

Because if you look at, like, when every automaker started,

pretty much every automaker, started coming out with mainstream SUVs,

like in the late 90s, early 2000s, you had, like, the Mercedes ML,

the Volkswagen Touareg, Kia Borrego even, right?

Kia Sorento.

All these manufacturers put a low range into these vehicles

because the perception was then that people were buying an SUV

because they wanted to take it off-road, right?

It wasn't just the Asians.

It was also the Germans, the first Touareg.

That's what I said.

Oh, I didn't say Touareg.

I thought you had a low range too, yeah.

So there was this perception that, like,

people needed a low range because they were going off-road.

But then when you actually, I think what the manufacturers did

is they started looking at the data and they were like,

people aren't taking these off-road at all.

Ah, the problem was looking at the data.

Yeah, but it's not.

And making your decisions based on data, not based on emotion.

Yeah, the problem with that, exactly.

I mean, to their credit, like, a low range creates a lot of issues

if you're building a family car, right?

You have this big, chunky box you have to somehow put

in the middle of the car or incorporate into the car.

You've got to, that not only takes up a lot of space,

adds a lot of weight.

I think when the Cayenne went from the first gen of the second gen,

it shed something like 450 pounds by getting rid of its low range.

They were able to redesign it in such a way.

So let's go back even further.

So do you remember when the original Bronco came out?

The big Bronco, not the baby Bronco.

The OJ Bronco.

The OJ Bronco and the Blazer, right?

There was this like zeitgeist in the country

where we could do anything and so we're going to have

these big old off-roaders because that's what America is.

So that came out.

And there was this moment in time where that did well.

And then of course, in the 90s, the Explorer came out,

also a low range, the very first Explorer, right?

And they simplified it.

So they took what was once upon a time big levers

and locking front discs where you had to go manually lock them.

Hubs.

Hubs, yeah.

And then they simplified it by just pushing a button.

Sure.

And it sold really well.

It did really, really well.

And so there was kind of this ethos around,

well, we need to have in our range of vehicles,

the Toureg, the Borrego, Borengo, whatever that was called.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so we need to have this low range thing

because this is what, and then all of a sudden.

And the GL could be had with the low range?

Yeah, the GL could be had with the low range.

And then they started, like you said, looking at numbers

and people were like, we're buying these to go to the grocery store,

buying them to go to work, so we don't need all this.

It's heavy, it's complicated, it's complex.

And so they got rid of it.

So they basically made the cars on-roaders.

They made them sportier, right?

The M versions of the X5 came out, same thing with Mercedes.

Sure, sure, sure.

But then all of a sudden, like COVID hit and off-roading,

like went through the roof and people all of a sudden

wanted to go back to basics and get away from big cities

and get away from suburbs.

And now they're trying to play catch-up,

but they're playing catch-up because they can't,

you can't redesign the whole car to put a low range into it,

but you can stick parts on it to make it more off-road worthy.

But I still think the problem is that people are yearning

for the real stuff, right?

They don't want the decaffeinated version of their off-roader.

They want the caffeinated one,

which happens to be a Wrangler or a Bronco.

And those are the ones that are selling.

And now they're playing catch-up,

trying to bring back the stuff that they took out of their cars.

That's kind of, I think, where we're at.

Yeah, but they just come up with new cars that have it, right?

So your Woodland R4 doesn't have a low range.

Yeah, I think, I think.

I mean, what's Toyota's answer to that?

FJ.

No, not an FJ.

A forerunner.

It's the FJ.

Go buy a forerunner, right?

Forerunners are freaking expensive.

Yeah, but this is expensive.

This is going to be $44,000.

Everything is expensive now, right?

So this is going to be.

And that's why there's a huge hole in the market

for a serious, affordable off-roader.

This is my theory.

Yeah, I mean, so you're saying, bring a Jimny here.

Yeah.

We had a Jimny here.

Oh, we had the Renegade.

No, no, no.

Go even further back.

Oh, the Suzuki Samurai.

Yes.

But that was in the 80s, dude.

Oh my gosh, we're going so far back.

That's a whole different time.

But it's too small.

People say that.

This is too small.

I agree.

People say they want a Jimny in the USA.

No one would buy a Jimny in the USA.

Or very few people.

Yeah, I think the Suzuki Cyclic did OK.

That was also small.

But that was successful because it was bigger than the Samurai.

And they give it four doors.

Yes.

Right?

That's what made that successful.

Yeah, they did a three-door.

But that's why it was popular, because they added the fourth door.

That was the key.

Like, if I went to my wife, I'd love a Jimny, right?

And I said, I want to spend $25,000 on a Jimny.

Instead, you're going to spend it on a shitty old Jimny.

Yes, I will.

Tommy, for those of you who don't know,

Tommy just bought a 1947?

46.

CJ 2A?

2A, yeah.

CJ 2A.

He's going to spend that on that.

But my point is, that's different.

Is that true?

Am I right?

Well, that's different, because I can go to her and say I spend $5,000.

And then over the course of three months, then spend $25,000.

That's a different story.

As opposed to just buying it right away.

But if I went to her and say I want to buy a new vehicle.

That's $25,000.

She'd say, well, let's go check it out.

And she would take one look at that thing and be like, it's two doors.

She drives a Fiat 500.

Yeah, and she doesn't love the size of the Fiat 500.

Actually, that's not right.

She drives a LR3 more.

She loves the 500E because it was a free car.

OK, so she loves what the price tag, not necessarily.

But if I pulled up in this thing, the Jimny,

she'd be like, where do I put anything?

Why is it so tiny?

Well, you got nothing to put in there.

What do you got to put in there?

She has a ton of stuff to put in there.

We just had this conversation with Mary.

They just have a ton of stuff they like to carry around.

You have no kids.

Wait, you have kids.

Then you're going to have a kids.

Then you're going to have a ton of stuff.

She's always moving stuff.

She's moving stuff around.

She likes to have her stuff in her car.

This is too small.

But I don't judge her.

That's what she likes.

No, we don't want to judge her a little bit more.

So the reality is this is just too small for most American families.

How about the FJ?

The new Land Cruiser FJ.

Go back to that.

Yeah, but it's hideous.

No, that's what you think.

Yeah, that's what she would be fine with.

But look at it.

See, there you go.

It looks like you put a renegade in an oven and it went woof.

No, but at that point, just buy a four-in-er.

Why would you get that over a four-in-er?

Because it's going to be $30,000 versus.

It's not going to be $30,000.

It's going to be $30,000 or $30,000.

Because a four-in-er, you say in SR5,

good luck trying to find an SR5 four-in-er under $45,000.

It doesn't exist.

I don't think any Land Cruiser will ever be priced under four-in-er in the USA.

I think branding-wise, they can't have a cheaper.

That's going to be cheap.

You can already see by the look.

Have you seen the inside though?

It's got a ton of tech.

It's got a leather interior.

It's got a huge screen.

If you've got a locking differential in a low-range in a Toyota product,

it's going to be $45,000.

I don't know about that.

Well, first of all, especially by the scooter with it.

Yeah, the scooter, yeah.

Let's see.

They have a picture.

If he keeps growing cold, this is on the launch of it.

If you guys want to watch the videos at all, TFL,

you can see what the new FJ is.

Why does nobody have a picture of the inside?

There's definitely one.

There it is.

Look at that.

That is not a third.

It's got a-

Why is it so black?

Why is the picture so dark?

It's got piping on the seats.

You're telling me with leather piping on the seat,

that's going to be $30,000?

Did the videographer or photographer have lights?

Zoom in.

Zoom in for a second.

Holy cow.

Go on that one.

You think that's AI?

No, it's not.

It's horrible.

Ignore the darkness.

It's just black.

Zoom in by the shifter.

Okay.

It's got ventilated seats.

You're telling me that's going to be $30,000 with ventilated seats?

That's a luxury interior.

Come on.

You know better than this.

This is the one that they unveil,

which is, of course, the most expensive, the nicest one.

There will be one that will have cloth seats.

Sure.

There will be one that won't have all the bells and whistles

with cheaper plastics.

And that one will be $35,000 if they bring it to America,

which I'm not sure they will.

It's got a 200-inch screen in the car.

You're looking at the most expensive version,

which is the one that unveiled.

That's normal.

Yeah.

I think that's going to be $45,000.

I think the problem is, this is another issue where we're at,

I think the real problem is with the forerunner,

they've just priced themselves out of the market.

They're so freaking expensive now.

They're selling, though.

I see them everywhere.

Yeah, they are selling.

I think people are taking 20-year loans or something to get them.

I mean, when we cut that check for $57,000, I almost gasped.

Sure.

And that was just because we're doing this as a business,

but if it was me buying it personally, I would be like, whew.

I mean, that's every car.

The average new car price now is $50,000.

We have a $53,000 golf in our garage.

That's the new reality of the world.

TadP has a new comment.

He likes it.

He said as an FJ Cruiser owner, I think he is an FJ Cruiser,

this new FJ looks like a worthy successor.

There you go.

You hate it for some reason.

Because it's hideous.

It looks like it's made out of Legos.

We had this conversation in the video and you were like,

you were just so opposed to it.

I think it's kind of cool.

All right.

I don't go in with an open mind here,

but look at the proportion of it.

Dad, why is the front end 17 feet long?

You think that's a good looking car?

Maybe it's got a 12 cylinder in the front.

It's got a 2.7 liter four cylinder, 12 cylinder.

Look at that.

The back is cool.

Look at the back.

The back is really cool.

It looks like a mobility device.

It looks like that thing they had that throwing around Vegas

where it's self propelled with no driver.

Anyway, if this comes to the US, I will be astonished,

but pleasantly surprised.

Go back to that picture.

Do you like the square headlights or the round headlights?

The round one looks a lot better.

They're doing the same thing they did with the Land Cruiser.

No, I mean, what do you realistically

do you think this is going to make it to the US?

Most people I see online are saying no way.

I think if Toyota were, I think if they were bold,

look, this is the other thing.

So Akio Toyota a while ago said no more boring cars.

And this has become kind of a rallying cry.

You see it at Ford too.

Farley kind of picked up that gauntlet as well.

And he's saying we're not going to build boring cars.

Everybody's getting into motorsports.

Ford is getting into motorsports.

Everybody's getting into motorsports.

They are.

Everybody's doing motorsports now.

It's become like this huge thing.

And I'm always a contrarian.

And so I'm always going to be on the side of they say one thing,

but at the end of the day,

Toyota sells a boat ton of RAF 4s that aren't this, right?

That are just the basic run of the mill.

Yeah, a hundred percent.

A ton of Corolla's that are the basic.

A ton of Camry's.

So you could you could be the CEO or the chairman of the board

and you could be like no more boring cars.

But dude, if I walk into most dealerships,

I'll give you an example of this.

I'm driving by here in Boulder.

The Volkswagen dealership is right next to the Jeep dealership.

I'm driving by the Volkswagen dealership and I'm going down the row

and it's black, silver, black, white, white, black, silver.

But they might have a green ID bus or an orange.

Something that I was selling in the back.

So all the cars are like the most boring color palette possible.

And then right next to it is a Jeep dealer.

And all of a sudden you've got yellows and you've got purples

and you've got these crazy colors.

And I'm like, that's a car company that is building fun cars.

Yeah, for sure.

And so the problem is where the tire meets the tarmac.

And that is you can say one thing, but until you actually do it,

I'm going to hold my judgment.

And I see a lot of car companies now saying,

we're going to get into car racing.

We're going to be doing all this stuff.

But yet you look at their product line and every car is boring and silver.

And there's very little excitement within the brands.

Yeah, for sure.

I think you're, for once, I agree with you completely.

I think people, the company say they want to make no more boring cars,

but people buy boring cars.

Yeah, people buy boring cars because at the end of the day,

when you go to the dealership and there's a non-boring car

that costs 20% more than the boring car,

you kind of reassess your priorities.

You're like, well, I'd rather spend that money on a vacation

than having this fancy wheel or tire package.

100%.

Speaking last, going back to last time, something we said earlier,

because I know someone's going to comment that there is one crossover,

small crossover that did have a low range in recent years.

Do you remember what that was?

A small crossover that had a low range.

Yeah, there was only one of them.

Well, Jeep, a lot of Jeeps had low ranges.

Yeah, the Cherokee.

Okay, yeah.

Yeah, the weird looking Cherokee, the KL.

Yeah, with the weird lights.

Yeah, that had a really, really cool low range.

That actually, they did something crazy with that.

So typically on a low range, you need a longitudinal engine

for the back, so you can have a transfer case behind it.

There you go, thank you.

This one was a transverse.

Go for an older one.

That's a newer one.

That one had it.

They didn't have it too.

Yeah, that's the right area.

Go for Trailhawk.

I had a Trailhawk.

The KL Cherokee had this thing where it had two low ranges,

actually, because I think if I remember right,

they had a low set of gears for the front trans axle,

then they had the power takeoff to the rear axle,

where they had to incorporate another set of gears

to match the ratio to the front.

So that was a really weird design.

But it works super well.

Oh, there's me driving it.

There you go.

This was probably 2019.

Yeah, 2019.

So these were really, really capable.

The only downfall with these is they have a nine-speed automatic,

which was pretty terrible.

This was a nine-speed Cherokee.

Yeah, and they also came out with that word design.

This one doesn't have it.

This is the updated one,

but they had that word design language word.

The split headlight.

People weren't ready for that.

No, but these are cool, actually.

They're really cool.

I like to own one someday for a series.

I think it'd be popular.

You could buy them now.

You could pick one up now for like.

They're pretty expensive.

Really?

They're like 9 to 12.

That's not bad.

Yeah, well, for a very awkward people.

Yeah, but it's a 10-year-old Jeep with a nine-speed.

Do I trust that?

Was it Pentastar?

What was it?

Yeah, it was a 3.2-liter V6.

It was like the small Pentastar.

Okay.

Yeah, there you are.

There I am, looking young and thin.

Look, I'm wearing a very similar watch.

There you go.

That hasn't changed at all.

It hasn't changed.

That's six years ago.

There is one thing I want to talk about

before we close out this podcast.

Yeah, we got some time.

Go to the Peak Auto Auctions website here, Cole.

Let's see what our podcast people think about this.

So there's this car that...

No, don't show them the car we want to buy.

I do, but it's a podcast.

Seven people are watching this right now.

All right, you can...

Yeah, all right, go to it.

Go to the donated auctions.

All right, we want to buy this car.

This is some real interest,

but I want to see if anybody thinks

this is going to be interesting

or if this is really dumb.

So there's...

I think this is kind of a hidden gem.

So this is a Ford Explorer.

Yeah.

First generation, 1992.

And this thing has 92,000 miles.

It's a two-door automatic.

A real low-range.

It's got some rust in the front bumper.

I didn't notice.

Yeah, in the corner there, it's got a little bit of rust.

Right there.

Interesting.

But these are...

It's genuinely a very, very clean car.

So I'd love to know people's opinion.

Do you have to take your call?

I have to.

Can you keep talking?

Sure, sure.

I'll be right back.

If anybody would be interested in this.

I think that there's kind of an undercurrent of interest

around these first gen explorers

because you used to see these cars absolutely everywhere

and then they've just...

They've just disappeared off the face of the planet

because they rested out.

They got rotted out.

They got used up.

But I do kind of think that some people

might be interested in this.

Our producer, Zach, loves this thing.

He actually used to own one of these back in the day.

So it's a really clean first gen explorer.

I think if we can get it for $2,000, $2,500,

it might be worth it.

And then do a little series and move it on.

Yeah, now people are going to bid on it and bid us up.

There's three people watching.

Pat P, don't bid us up, please.

What are you saying, Pat?

Should we buy this car?

Is he making any comments on this?

Let's see if there's any interest in this thing.

I guess it depends on how much, you know,

the thing ends up going for.

Yeah, what's your top dollar on the Explorer?

$1,000.

$1,000?

Yeah, it's already $8.50.

Yeah, no way it's going for $1,000.

There's also a cool, Cole, go back to the auction.

There's also a cool Jeep.

Yeah, let's see if we can find the Jeep.

If you go back.

If you're looking for an expensive Jeep,

this would be a, it's yellow, so it's easy to find, Cole.

It'll pop.

It's a bright yellow 2008 JK.

There it is.

How much is it going for already?

$8,100.

It's a good Jeep.

I think it's going to go for $12,000 to $15,000.

So it's a, it's a, it's a ruby.

So Rubicon, it's built well.

So second year JK, I think they came out no seven.

Probably got 35s on it, but new tires.

This is a donated car.

Most of the cars are donated cars.

Only 42,000 miles.

Yeah, it's got bumpers.

It's got racks on it.

It's got a worn winch.

The problem with these Jeeps is they have the 3.8,

which people actually say is pretty reliable as an engine goes.

But they're kind of a boat anchor.

Like they have like 180 horsepower

and they get like 14 MPG if they're in good shape.

Well, right now the thing's going for how much?

$8,100.

So it would cost you $8,100 just to build that out.

Oh, for sure.

It's got a radio.

So you're, if you were to actually just buy a JK

and try to put all the stuff that's on this one already,

it would cost you $8,000.

Yeah, this is a really good Jeep.

I mean that worn winch is probably $15,000 just for the winch.

Yeah, probably.

And that's not, that's not including the front bumper

that you have to have, right?

That's probably a $2,000 bumper on the front of it.

But this is going to sell, what's your number on this?

Well, KBB says it's worth like 12, but that's, but this is lifted.

Sure, I don't know how much value that has.

Initially when we were buying cars at this peak auction,

you could get bargains, but now last week it happened with the Miata.

Last two weeks ago, right?

Can you explain that?

What was the Miata?

So there was a really clean one owner Miata for sale.

NA generation.

First generation and those are worth like $8,000.

And this thing sold for like $7,000.

But they're also asking, what is it?

20%, I think it's 18% buyer fee, which is a lot, which is a lot.

So at, so even if it sells for, I think it's sold for like $6,800

with the buyer premium, you're already at what the market value of the thing is.

Chad says, get the Jeep.

There you go.

There you go, Chad.

There you go.

Well, we have to now.

Chad Brand says, get the Jeep.

Yeah, I just sold the Tesla, by the way.

Oh, good job.

Yeah.

YouTubers, my favorite.

Josh West 247.

I haven't checked out his YouTube channel.

But Josh, thank you for buying the Jeep.

He's a YouTuber.

Oh, sorry.

Thank you for buying the Tesla, our Model S that we bought earlier this year.

It's time to move it on.

So I'm glad I got a good new home.

I sold it for $12,500, Tommy.

There you go.

Buy the Jeep now.

Yeah.

Now we've got to pull it into a Wrangler.

Yeah, I could just roll into a Wrangler.

I, you know, we always have to have a Jeep.

Yeah.

We always have.

I have a 1946.

We have two.

We always have to have a Jeep.

We always have to have a Land Rover.

Did we?

So we've got, we've got two.

How many Range Rovers Land Rovers do we have?

I like seven.

Yeah, two Jeeps.

No, two, two, three, in cases, four in the TFL family.

Because I've got two now.

Oh, I bought Perry.

I don't know if anyone knew about that.

I bought Perry.

And then.

Yeah, so he bought our P38.

Range Rover, yeah.

So this is the Jeep that is now, this weekend, Tommy took the tub off, basically.

Do you have that picture, Cole?

You want to pull it up?

Show people what it looks like now.

Yes, this is the one we were talking about where he spent 5,000 on it,

but in the end, you're going to spend another 20,000.

Well, I have to.

Yeah, I have to, I have to figure out what I want to do to this.

So this is a 1946 CJ2A that I bought that, that I wanted to do a little project with,

and it ended up turning into a massive project, as always.

Now, Case wants me to do everything on it.

I don't know if I want to spend $25,000 on this Jeep.

I don't think it's, I think you would have been better off just to buy a good one.

Well, I, but I want a project.

Yeah, you've got a project.

You're buying a good one.

There's no, I'm not doing it to save money.

This is what Case and Tommy and Connor did over the weekend.

So you saw, you saw the Jeep before.

This is what it looks like now.

And there are some problems.

Well, the problem is it has no body on it right now.

No, there's other problems.

So when you took the body off, what did you discover at the bell housing?

Well, there's a, oh, I've got that picture too, Cole.

There's a giant hole where the clutch should be.

There's also a clutch there.

Tommy, you're nice to buy a Jeep.

There's like, there's like what?

Maybe five things that make up any vehicle, right?

There's a body, there's a chassis, there's a powertrain, there's a transmission.

And out of the five things that make up any vehicle,

like, like four of the things in this thing are bad.

Tires are good.

It's got good tires.

Maybe.

Yeah.

It's got good transfer case, but it's got a hole in it.

It does have a huge hole in the bell housing for some reason.

How was I supposed to see the hole in the bell housing?

Imagine when you took it under water, that thing filled up with water.

Yes, it did.

It can't be good for it.

That's probably why the clutch is chattering is because it's full of sand.

But I didn't know that there was a hole in the bell housing.

How was I supposed to see that?

I'm just saying you just stumbled onto like the worst 1947 CJ2A out there.

So the engine, not great, but the transmission is also not good.

The body is throw away.

You're going to make it into a planter.

Yes.

The transfer case is good.

That's good.

The axles are fine.

And the frame is fine.

How about the leaf springs?

No, those are not good.

No, and now the steering box is ruined too.

So it needs some things.

I'm not saying it's a restored example, but it will be nice.

You're going to spend $15,000 on a Jeep that will be worth 10 once it's all done.

So the thing it needs really, like the bare bones,

case wants me to do all the axles and the lockers and the overdrive underdrive thing.

I mean, I think I need the body.

The body is horrible.

Yeah, you can get a tub for like 3K.

Yeah.

So it needs a tub.

But the problem is it also needs front fenders

because someone had welded the front fenders to the tub, which is a big problem.

Then it also needs a transmission because the transmission shot.

And it also needs, that's the minimum I could get away with, I think, and the engine work.

It needs a carburetor and it needs a distributor and it needs an intake manifold gasket.

There's a few things it needs, all right, but we'll get there.

And it needs all new wiring.

None of the wiring works.

But apart from that.

Did the guy say that he rewired it?

Yes, he did.

But he rewired.

So it almost got on fire.

He rewired it.

It's like spaghetti.

Yes, and it did light itself on fire.

Yeah, it has already lit itself on fire once.

So on the podcast last week.

Oh, it also needs a new windshield.

It's got the wrong windshield frame on it.

On the podcast.

Remember, I said I was going to sell Perry, which is our P38 lender.

And I said, if you wanted, you could buy for 2000.

And you did.

So now, even though you have this piece of art to the barn,

now you actually have a drivable, usable vehicle.

Yes.

And if I didn't have any others, you can.

No, but that at least, I felt like you did well with that.

And Perry only needs new front end, new suspension.

Yeah, they all need that.

None of the blenders works.

So it doesn't have heat or AC.

But it runs and drives.

It does run and drive.

And the four-wheel drive works.

Yes, works great.

Yeah, so for 2000 bucks to have a running and driving vehicle.

And no, the heater does work.

It just doesn't work great.

Well, it works.

It just doesn't blow anything.

It works.

It warms up.

It just warms up.

It's out of the dash a little bit.

The air conditioning doesn't work.

I'll give you that.

The air conditioning does work.

But once again, it can't get out.

It's like stuck in the dashboard because the blenders fail.

I figured out if you put it on.

It doesn't have a hole in the transfer case,

as far as where it will fit.

That's true.

The transfer case is hole-less.

I figured out if you put it on defrost,

it comes out two of the vents.

That's good enough.

That'll keep you warm in the winter.

It does have heated seats.

It doesn't work.

That don't work.

I'm very excited about Perry because I'm

going to make him into something pretty cool.

Once I finish making the Jeep into something pretty cool,

after I finish fixing the bottle seat.

I have a prediction that the Jeep is going

to sit there next to the barn for all of the winter.

Nope.

Well, you know what my goal with that is.

What is that?

I would love to potentially, if you get it done,

drive it to Easter Jeep Safari.

OK.

That's a great goal.

That would be a fun goal.

I support you in that goal.

You better get going.

You better get going because that's coming up in March.

No, I know.

So we've got November, December, January, February,

five months.

And I say, if you don't get it done,

we take the old military Jeep anyway.

We take the one that runs and drives.

This one does run and drive.

It doesn't.

Now it doesn't.

Well, not now, but it did.

It was going.

No, I'm saying, if you can't get it done,

I think we should take the World War II Jeep.

You know, David Tracy is doing something very similar

to what I'm doing.

What's he doing?

Taking his I3?

No.

He's doing something even crazier.

Into Hell's Revenge.

So I think he's with the Atopian partnered

with like eBay Motors.

Yeah.

And he's building one from scratch.

Wow.

That could be fun.

Yeah.

So he's got nothing.

So at least I have something to start with.

But it's better to start with nothing than the.

What do you mean it's better to start with nothing?

You're going to take that down to nothing

and start over again anyway.

So you might as well just start at nothing.

Yeah.

But I have some of the bits.

It has a frame.

That's a good start.

Yeah, you have a frame.

Yeah.

I'll give you that.

You get the frame.

Am I going to get the frame fixed?

The frame's a little rusty.

No, it'll be good.

I've got a frame and I've got some wheels.

That's all you need in a Jeep.

Hey, well, guys, come back this weekend

where Tommy takes his old Toyota Corolla off-road.

Why?

Didn't you do that?

Didn't you take Terry off-road?

What's a Terry video?

Where'd you take it?

No, I took the Range Rover off-road.

Oh, I thought it was.

Oh, Perry.

It was.

You really?

Why do you struggle so much with Perry and Terry?

It's horrible.

Perry and Terry.

Just stop it.

What do you mean?

Because they have nothing to do with either car.

Yes, they do.

No, no, no.

It's Terry the Tersell with a T.

No, it's horrible.

It's Perry the P38.

Oh, it's no good.

We already have a name for the new Explorer, by the way.

What's that?

Kerry.

No.

Jerry.

Yeah.

No.

Look, we have our, it has to do something

with the vehicle itself.

I'll give you an idea.

Perry the P38, Terry the Tersell.

So our big military truck is a giant general, GG.

That makes sense, right?

It's giant and it could be like a military thing.

Terry the Tersell.

Our AT-4X that is orange is called Pumpkin.

Uh-huh.

But there's nothing.

Terry, Perry, Harry, Jerry,

Perry, it has nothing to do with the vehicle.

Oh, good names there.

Perry the Ford.

Oh, God.

You already came up with the new name.

Perry the Ford.

I'm always, no.

All right.

So anyway, we've got that coming off

where you took that off road and broke it.

Yeah.

Peace out.

But I think you felt guilty to say you had to buy it.

I broke Perry so that I bought Perry.

Yeah.

Um, no, I, I mean, the Perry does,

the bumper on Perry is not looking so hot right now.

Any more comments before we got,

we got a bunch of comments coming in.

Yeah.

People like the Jeep idea.

Um, Jonathan says fixing it up will make a good series.

It'll be a learning experience.

They believe in me.

They said I can fix it.

Anybody want to up their monthly?

Yeah, really?

To help pay for.

This is the problem though.

Inherently, this, I applaud you for doing it, Tommy,

because what you're doing is you're learning

and you're doing something that's fun.

And you're doing something that's hard to do,

which is you're taking something that is old and broken

and you're making it new and usable.

With the added kind of salt in the wound

that you're going to spend more money

than you'll ever get back.

Sure.

Because you, like I said, you'll spend 15k

on a vehicle that'll be worth.

10.

Maybe.

Yeah.

And that's, I applaud that.

So I wish you get, I wish you would have,

I wish you get it done,

but I just don't want that much pressure on you.

So if, if, if you can't get it done,

then we can take the old military.

Yeah, I know.

That's fine.

I think it would be a good challenge to have a deadline.

But there are some expensive parts,

like we, like the steering box is ruined.

And that's like 500 bucks to get a new steering box.

Right.

Everything's like 500 bucks.

And then you follow through this trap.

This is also a problem where,

well, you don't want to spend 500 a new one,

but you could buy a rebuilt one.

But the rebuilt one could be just as bad as the.

Well, you can't buy new ones anymore.

They have to be rebuilt in the steering boxes.

Yeah.

You could buy new ones.

You could, for those jeeps,

you could buy anything new from the tub.

Well, the tub is interesting.

There's two companies.

There's a few other companies,

but they kind of just rebrand the companies.

So there's two companies that build tubs for these jeeps.

There's a company in India that builds them brand new,

which kind of makes sense because they have a huge.

So in India, there's a company called Mahindra.

Yeah.

Right.

Big company.

Which bought the rights to essentially my Jeep,

the Willy's Jeep.

Yeah, I built them.

Long, long time ago.

And then they kept building them.

And to this day, they still build a version of it called the Thar.

You want to look up a Mahindra Thar, T-H-A-R.

So Mahindra, I think it might be the same company or whatever.

They actually, they still build the tubs to.

Yeah, look at that.

Right.

Like that's just a Jeep, clearly,

but Mahindra builds it in India.

So you got seven slots.

So they do have their licensing.

Well, one, two, three, six.

Six.

Okay.

So not quite seven.

One less.

There it is.

That's essentially what the tub will be, kind of like.

Remember, we were in that when we were here.

Yeah, I remember that.

Yeah, we drove in that.

Yeah, it drives pretty poorly.

Well, yeah.

Sure.

It's an Indian knockoff of a Jeep.

But so you can still buy the tubs or the Philippines.

They still build the tubs brand new in the Philippines.

And then imported, like you said, you can get just a tub.

It's like 3K.

The tub, we're talking about the body, basically.

The whole body.

Yeah, it's called the tub because there's no roof.

Because it looks like a bathtub.

Yeah.

Or you can buy all of it for like 4500,

which I'll probably have to do.

With the fenders.

That's everything.

That's front fascia.

That's grill, hood, windshield, fenders, all of it.

So that's probably the route.

I'll go down.

But then I don't know if like with tariffs,

if I can even get the stuff right.

Who knows if they're still importing it.

So I'm going to call up.

What's that company called?

Omix.

Yeah, but they just, they do the same thing

the other companies do.

They either buy them from the India Philippines

and then they resell them.

And actually there's a go to lookupkaiserwillys.com I think.

Cole.

So this is pretty cool.

I think they might be in Pennsylvania.

There you there it is.

So look like you can see that's kind of what the tubs look like.

Do you see that red one?

Yeah, not a sponsor.

Not a sponsor.

Hey, if you want to sponsor Tommy's project.

If the three of you watching right now

happen to work for Kaiser Willy's Jeep.

Yeah, if you want to sponsor it, we're going to call it Jerry.

No, it's not Jerry.

It's got a name already.

What's it?

Wilbur.

For fun sake.

It's name is Wilbur.

Wilbur the Jeep.

You're never going to get a sponsorship for Wilbur.

What's wrong?

Do better than that.

What's wrong with Wilbur?

Remember tube sock when what's his name did it?

Yes.

That was a great name.

Why is Wilbur?

Why is Wilbur a bad name?

You're just picking the weirdest names and naming it.

There's nothing to do with the thing.

What do you mean weirdness names?

Wilbur, wasn't that the talking horse?

Wasn't there talking Wilbur or something back in the 60s?

What was the name of the talking horse back in the 60s?

Cole, help me out.

There was a...

You want to look up Wilbur, the talking horse?

I don't know.

It wasn't Wilbur.

It was something.

Just look up Talking Horse, like comedy series.

What was that horse's name?

Mr. Ed.

Mr. Ed, how is that similar to Wilbur at all?

Mr. Ed, that was the horse's name.

What year is this?

1961?

Yeah, Mr. Ed.

This is what you're doing.

You're just coming up with names that have nothing to do.

Who would have thought that talking horse is Mr. Ed?

And did you remember it?

Because it was a good song.

A horse is a horse, of course, of course.

Unless it's Mr. Ed.

65 years ago, you still remember the name of the horse.

Because of the...

Because of you have a...

A jingle?

A jingle.

I'll come up with a jingle.

Wilbur, come up with it now.

I can't come up with it now.

I need a piano.

Do you have a piano?

And there's got to be a jingle.

You don't know how to play the piano,

so you don't need a piano.

It doesn't matter.

That is a problem.

But I will learn the piano, and then I'll come up with a jingle.

You want to try to come up with a jingle on a clarinet?

Yeah.

Maybe I will.

For Wilbur.

You remember Wilbur now, won't you?

There you go.

Mr. Ed Wilbur.

What rhymes with Wilbur?

Nothing.

See, you might as well call it orange.

Anyway, guys, let us know what you think of my crazy Jeep product,

and also what you think of the new RAV4.

Yes.

Thank you for joining us for another hour of TFL car chat.

Not dopamine chat or cigarette chat.

Yes, that's right.

And as always, where should they go

if they want to watch all these videos?

Tommy.

AltTFL.com, the place to go,

or if you want to watch the podcast live

and support the team, patreon.com slash tfl.com.

I've asked Cole to work on it.

What we want to do is have you guys actually not just type,

but actually be able to call in and talk to us direct.

So we're working on a way for you guys to be able to do that

so that we can have a conversation,

which I think would be super fun.

And we'd love to get you actually part of the show

beyond just your comments.

So hopefully we can figure that out.

I mean, there's another way you could do it.

I could just give up my phone number and they could call in.

That would be one way to do it.

That would be one way to do it for sure.

And that could just hold the phone to the mic.

Yep.

I'm not sure that would.

No, I'm not sure that would work.

That would work.

It just might be bad for my phone number.

All right, guys.

Let us know what you think.

All right, we'll see you guys next time.

Bye.

0:00

67:35

Ep. 308: Should We Buy It? Making Financially Terrible Decisions Can Be Fun!

Jeep CJ2

Jeep

Toyota TRD

About this episode

Original notes