Ep. 310: These Are The 2025 WINNER And LOSER Trucks!
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Car
Porsche 997
The Porsche 997 is a popular sports car that was made from 1999 to 2004. It has a powerful engine at the back and is known for driving well and looking classic.
Car
Ford Maverick
The Ford Maverick is a tiny pickup truck that started selling in 2022. It’s smaller than most trucks but still has a bed and can carry loads.
Car
Nissan Titan
The Nissan Titan is a big truck made by Nissan. It’s good for hauling heavy loads and can tow trailers.
Concept
towing test
A towing test checks how well a truck can pull something heavy, like a trailer. It shows if the engine and brakes are strong enough.
Concept
Denver 100 MPG loop
The Denver 100 MPG loop is a test where cars drive around to see how many miles they can go on one gallon of gas. It helps compare fuel efficiency.
Concept
drag race
A drag race is when two cars drive as fast as they can on a straight track for a short distance. It shows how quickly a car can accelerate.
Concept
heavy duty trucks
Heavy duty trucks are big pickups that can carry a lot of weight, like trailers or heavy equipment.
Car
Honda Passport
The Honda Passport is a big SUV that can carry families and cargo. It has a strong engine and good safety features.
Car
Infiniti QX60
The QX60 is a stylish SUV that can tow trailers and has comfortable seating for families.
Car
Nissan Armada
The Armada is a very large SUV that can tow heavy trailers and has plenty of space for passengers.
Car
Chevrolet Tahoe
The Tahoe is a big SUV that can tow trailers and has lots of room for people and gear.
Term
side by side
A side‑by‑side is a small off‑road vehicle that can seat two people next to each other. It’s like a big lawn mower but with wheels and can pull small trailers.
Term
turbo
A turbo is a small machine that pushes extra air into the engine, so it can make more power. It’s like giving the engine a boost.
Term
matching trailers
When you tow a trailer, it’s important that the trailer fits well with your truck. A matching trailer is one that was made to work best with a particular truck, so it’s safer and easier to drive.
Car
Ford F-150 hybrid
It’s a big truck that runs on both gasoline and electricity, so it uses less gas than a regular F‑150 but still can haul heavy loads.
Brand
Toyota
Toyota is a big car company from Japan that makes many popular cars, trucks, and hybrids.
Term
dual-opening tailgate
This tailgate can open in two different ways—either it flips down or it folds out sideways—so you have more options for loading and unloading.
Brand
Stellantis
Stellantis is a big company that makes many different cars, like Jeep and Dodge. It was created when two large car companies joined together.
Brand
Pujo
Pujo makes cars that run on electricity instead of gasoline, and it is part of a big company called Stellantis.
Concept
electric vehicles
Electric vehicles run on electricity stored in batteries, so they don't use gasoline.
Brand
Jeep
Jeep makes cars that are good for rough terrain and off‑road adventures. They’re famous for their rugged design.
Part
supercharger
A supercharger squeezes extra air into the engine so it can burn more fuel and make more horsepower. It’s a common upgrade for people who want their car to run faster.
Part
EcoBoost
EcoBoost is a type of engine that uses a turbocharger to help the car go faster while using less gas. It’s common in many Ford cars.
Car
Hummer EV
The Hummer EV is a big electric truck made by GM. It has a huge battery and can go off the road like a regular Hummer but uses electricity instead of gas.
Car
Chevrolet Armada
The Armada is a big truck made by Chevrolet. It can pull heavy trailers and has plenty of space inside.
Brand
Caterpillar
Caterpillar makes big trucks that are used for heavy work like building roads or digging mines.
Term
torque
Torque is the engine’s twisting power. It helps a truck start moving from a stop and pull heavy stuff, like trailers.
Brand
Cummins
Cummins makes diesel engines that are famous for being strong and long‑lasting, especially in big trucks.
Car
Ineos Grenadier
The Ineos Grenadier is a tough, off‑road SUV from the UK. It’s made to be strong and reliable in rough places.
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The five-dynamic chicken meal deal, the six-dynamic double meal deal, or the new seven-dollar daily double meal deal. Each with its own small fries, drink, and four-piece McNuggets, there's actually no rush. I'm just excited for McDonald's. For a limited time only, parts of the participation may vary, not bad, but for McDelivery.
Merry Christmas, Andre. Merry Christmas. Well, Christmas is coming up in just a few days. Yeah, exactly. This is our holiday show.
Yes. And we're doing a little pre-emptive new year show here because we figured that next week we'll be talking about what we're looking forward to seeing in 2026. So this week, we're going to be talking about winners and losers. Exactly because it's been a very eventful year, a very exciting year. We've done a lot. We've driven the cross-country what many times this year. Well, you have in hurricanes. Yeah, I drove a cross-country in a Bentley. Wow. That's cool.
As you know, normally I'm on the car podcast, but case is racing drag racing Tommy today. He's got our newly acquired Porsche 997. Then he's racing against Tommy's Aston Martin Vantage. Those two cars directly compete. So they're up at the race track. So I'm kind of standing in form. Well, great. I'm excited to see that drag race. Yeah, me too, because those cars directly compete. But we're here to talk about trucks. But my segue. Yeah. You talked about drag racers. Yeah.
We've done so many drag racers this year with trucks. And also, we started something new that we wanted to do for a very long time. We drag-raised trailers, you know, trucks with trailers. Yes. We called it to tow off. Yes.
And we're going to be talking about that when we get to winners. So let's say that. But there's even bigger news that we need to share with you all. And that is the TFL truck of the year. As you've been
watching all our videos, we have now gotten to the end of the TFL testing. Andre, you
encased it in the exceptional job. I'm really excited to watch those videos. And I'm really excited to
find out what the TFL truck of the year is. So if you're listening to this today, then you'll have to
wait till Saturday tomorrow. But if you're watching this or listening to it on YouTube tomorrow, then you'll know.
So we won't spill the beans. I don't want the TFL truck of the year is. But tell me kind of what you did and how we're going to pick the, or how you
encased are going to pick the winner for the truck of the year. Well, this is for 2026. And we're really, really focused on the full size segment.
So I mean, it'd be kind of weird. And we've never done this. We've never combined in one competition trucks from different classes. Like we never
compare the Maverick to a super duty before as far as truck of the year. It's like, or the vinegar. Yeah, so, so we want to focus on a class. We
focused on full size halftones. And so this was a GM 1500. This was a GM CC error. In this case, we had a RAM 1500. We had a Toyota Tundra in a
four different 50, of course. So you had all the full size trucks. All of them. The Nissan Titan is no more. So unfortunately, we cannot
include it in this particular one. But then we did several testing tests. And we wanted to remove our opinion as much as possible out of it.
Yeah. So you wanted to make it objective, not subjective. Yes. So we really wanted to be numbers data driven, real world driven. So we did a
night gauntlet world stuff is towing test. We did a Denver 100 MPG loop. And then we also did the drag race with all of these trucks. And we've
published, you could see some of these videos already. You can go to TFL truck that TFL truck YouTube channel. And you could see it
right there. And then you assign points based on how they did exactly. That is some comprehensive testing. And I want to thank all the
manufacturers for sending trucks. Thank you. That was a big lift. That was a big lift. And getting all those trucks for
period of almost two weeks, because it took a long time. And I have to kind of blow our own horn here, Andrea. A lot of
publications, pick cars of the year. There's all these top 10 top 50 list, but very few of them do such comprehensive testing where we've
actually with the Ike, of course, you're doing towing testing with the Denver 100 you do in fuel economy, which is huge if you're using this
as the biggest tool in your toolbox. And with the drag races, you're doing performance testing. So you combine all the three of
those, you assign points and you get an up, you get an objective number and an objective winner as opposed to, you know, us picking the truck that we like
the most based on, you know, our color or something. Yeah. And and that's a kind of TFL way. And it's hard to do because the manufacturers don't
necessarily love what they would call this direct competition. I mean, they don't like they don't like direct
competition. Well, because we're not they're not controlling it. Yeah, one's going to lose one's going to wait. Right. So the
chances are you may not that they don't like that. And they don't like instrument testing because once again, you're putting stuff up
against a clock. In this case, or, you know, against the fuel pump or some fuel pump or how many break applications you have. And that's
where the tire hits the road. And so sometimes it's hard for us to go to degree. So that's why I'm thinking of
for doing that because, you know, we put all these trucks through a battery of tests. And we're going to find out which one of
those trucks came out on top. I'm can't wait. And I don't know what the winner is because you in case of done the numbers. So we are publishing or
you're publishing a video over a TFL truck tomorrow, basically summarizing all the testing and then picking Lala.
The winner. Yes. There's going to be fireworks in our producer Ian promised fireworks. Okay. Yeah. He's been working hard. Actually, he
didn't promised. He's been working hard at editing that. So yeah, I'm excited. Andrean. I hope that you guys like it because if you like it, the next year, we'll
pick a different segment. I'm thinking midsize trucks and we'll do the same thing if we can get the manufacturers to provide the trucks. And if we can get you guys on
board. So, you know, please go watch it. Please comment on it. And the more successful it is, you know, the more likely we'll be able to repeat it next year. And
also next year, just kind of a hint to the end of this episode is I'm expecting next year to be just insane. Especially maybe the later half of next year
because there's a lot of rumors about heavy duty trucks, you know, getting some updates even from John Motors and some others. And
there's a rumor of a TRX coming back. So next year is going to be crazy. Yeah, I think it's going to be fun. And so when you come back next time, we'll be talking about the trucks that we're looking forward to driving and seeing in 2026. So
shall we get on with the winners and the losers? But before we do that, Andre, I have an idea for you. What's that? All right. So I was reviewing the infinity QX 60. Yes.
Yesterday, I was doing our just this just thing, which is basically when the manufacturer senses the truck. So we do our vehicle in this case in SUV. We kind of do a first impression review of it and publish it to TFL now. And
I noticed that it had a towing package. Really? No way. Yeah, yeah, it had towing package. It was $66,000. Wow. Yeah, no brain control. 66,000 pounds. Yeah,
wow, it's like, it's like a semi truck. Oh, yeah, infinity is really crushing it.
6,000 pounds. Yes. And I was thinking to myself and Ian, actually, that we've pretty much ike every traditional truck there is to ike.
Can you think of a truck? We have an ike. And also we've ike every pickup truck with every engine. Yes, that's available. Yeah, so we're kind of we're kind of running out of trucks to ike.
And then, of course, we're the only ones that are actually doing this kind of toe testing in a regular basis over time. And so since we've done all the trucks with all the engines, I thought it'd be a good idea to actually do SUVs now, or let's call them big crossover three row SUVs, three row crossovers. And then the past we've done that as you know, it hasn't exactly broken the needle in terms of how many people watch.
Well, Cole, can you pull up a car, a channel TFL car, and we did the Honda Passport ike recently did did well. Yeah. Yeah, so that was pretty interesting actually. There goes. And the passport actually crushed it, dude. Yeah, did really well on there. I don't like.
And thank you for having us for giving us a long term loan because to do all this testing, it's hard to do it in a week, which is how long we usually get the cars for. Anyway, I was thinking to myself.
People use three row SUVs, especially the body of frame SUVs. You know, the big ones like Armada, if you're in the Nissan world or Tahoe, Yukon, all those suburban, or if you're an infinity, the QX60 with the 66,000, no, 6,000 pound towing package. Yeah.
And I thought to myself, we should also do toe testing on these because I think there's not a huge percentage of you guys out there towing. But, you know, if you buy a three row, the chances are you may be towing a horse trailer.
Or you may be towing a side by side, or maybe talking about with it. It's it's it's kind of the next step down if you're not getting a truck.
But, but there's a but. So I was talking to you about this. And the butt is that doing an eye takes a lot of time and effort. And as you know, if you've been listening to us or some of the other YouTubers, the YouTube model is changing. And the amount of work that we can put into any video and get a decent ROI is getting harder and harder to accomplish.
And so when we go and do an Ike, it's a big heavy lift. It takes a lot of videographers. It takes a lot of editing power. It takes a lot of just a lot of money to do these kinds of tests. And so I thought to myself, I'm not sure that there's enough interest to be hiking. Let's call it the infinity QX60. I just don't know if there's enough people buying it that they would be interested in having to go up to a world's toughest towing test.
So why did you bring this up? Because I came up with a new test. Whoa, me and Ian actually came up with a new test. Let me guess, this is going to be the El Dorado Ike. No, no, no, we came up with a new test.
So in the summer, what's the other test that we do? The torture, the toaster, the toaster, the default toaster test, which is a slow moving, really hot test.
Yeah, so the idea is you hook up a truck and then you go up a very steep grade. And luckily that grade is not far from here. So we don't have to go all the way to Silver Thorn. So whenever we do an Ike, that's a whole day.
And if we're doing two trucks at a time, it's your way into the evening. But this one, luckily, is very close to here. So you can hook up a trailer, go to the ranch, hook up a trailer, load it up, and then go up and down the toaster in a day. Or maybe less than a day to actually get a pretty interesting video on it.
Yeah, maybe three, four hours. Yeah, yeah. So here's the idea. It's a good test, not because it only overheats the truck or can't over eat the truck, but it's also a very steep grade.
And so it gives you a sense of how well the truck can a toe up the grade and how well or not, it can handle the load going down the grade. So I thought, let's do a winter toaster and call it. Are you ready for this guys? For SUVs, for SUVs.
The freezer. The freezer exactly. No, the freezer. So in the summer, we do the toaster. And in the winter, we do the freezer. Wow. What do you think of that? That is amazing. This is your first reaction. This is the first time you heard of it. So we'll see what Andre thinks.
I was thinking I did not see the freezer coming, even though it is well 70 degrees up to 70 degrees in December. No power in Boulder because of the winds. Yeah, but but it is also called the sunshine canyon.
You know, that road. So why not call it the sunshine toaster because it's not a toaster. It's a winter thing. It's a freezer. We do it in the winter. And we do it with three or S U B's.
Well, what happens when it's summer? Then we do the toaster toaster. Of course, all right, you heard it here first. So if you're interested in this test, you have to search for two words, either freezer or toaster. Yeah, in the summer, it's a toaster in the winter. It's the freezer. It's all about the kitchen, really. Yeah. And we take up three or S U B's in the first. Oh, I thought we could do is that infinity. Well, we have cool. Yeah, would you be up for doing that? Yes, I would. All right. Well, stay tuned for the freezer. I would. I want to thank Matt Zidrow.
He's here on Patreon. By the way, we're live on Patreon. Thank you for support, Matt. And Matt. His comment is so dear to my heart. What did he say? He says, keep with the objective data. I can always test drive and subjectively assess a truck. So I appreciate that you bring what you cannot do during a regular test drive. Thank you, Matt. So Matt, that means a lot to us. That means what we're doing is actually somebody appreciates. Yeah, that's great. That's the whole idea. I think you
encompassed it beautifully. So freezer. Yeah, freezer. Freezer towing test. Yeah. And they'll try it next week, even though it's supposed to be 70 degrees. By the way, there's powers out in Boulder. Yeah. And I almost got T-bone driving to work today. Oh, jeez. Yeah, the lights are not working. The lights are out. But when, you know, when the lights are out, usually goes to a flashing red. Right. There was nothing. Completely nothing. But still, it's a you know, there's a stoplight there. Yeah. So of course, I pulled up to the stoplight. Even though it's not flashing or doing anything.
And I stopped. I looked both ways. And I started crossing the street. And the guy coming from my left just blows right through it. And almost he boned me. Like I came with him, maybe three feet of it. I mean, that's crazy. Luckily, I had that Bentley with the 12 solar. So I floored it. I scoot out of his way. But he come on guys, even if there's a stop light and the powers out, you still stop. You don't blow through it as if there's what that would just become complete anarchy. Right. Then just because there's no light flashing.
Or there's no signal doesn't mean you just go right through the thing. Yeah, it was crazy. Right. Let's talk about winners. And I think we're going to have some disagreements here. So we're talking about trucks that have done well. Or we'll potentially do well in our opinion. And then of course, we're going to talk about trucks that are losers, which did not do so well this year. So you want to start with your list. And then I'll add to it. So start with your list. And we'll talk. Well, sure. Let's maybe do one winner. Okay. Let's just know do all the winners and we'll do all the losers. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So I
put down the RAM 1500 with the hurricane engine is a winner because well partially because I've had so much experience with this engine this year. Colony producer Colony, we drove a warlock. Oh, wait, that was a V8 wasn't it? Yes. So never mind. But I also drove a hurricane. Two will drive truck across the country. We've tested it. A hurricane truck was participating in our truck of the year contest. I did the RAM rebel.
1500 hurricane review that had 50,000 miles, which is quite a lot of miles for a truck with one year, that's one year old. And it's a great engine to super smooth and very powerful. So so to me, the kind of the poster child for the hurricane, of course, is the RHO. Yes. And I got to say, Andre, four did a 10 years ago.
Well, I got to say something else for dead 15 years ago, they introduced the Raptor, right. But well, 2017 was when the first EcoBoost Raptor came out, right? Yeah, I'm just saying, I'm just saying for did it first. And they did not just it was one engine, but they did it was too right. They did the three five and the two seven. So we're talking about basically a twin turbo charge six cylinder. In this case, you're talking about the RHO. Yeah. And I'm talking about the power train and the RHO. So, you know,
I mean, it is a straight six. It is turbo charge, but like I said, it's kind of like something. It's kind of rewarming what Ford did 10 or even better because it's more powerful. The RHO has 540 horsepower, which is a lot, which am easily high out, but EcoBoost is 450 horsepower.
Yeah, I'll give you that, but I think if Ford wanted to, they could crank up the boost, but they haven't, but they could forward, where are you? And they might. So I'm just saying, it's a good engine. I completely agree with that is some good video there. Is that you?
Yeah, that's you flying through the through the, yeah, I was flying. You know, Alex, our coworker, our coworker, Alex and I were at this event in Michigan. That was pretty cool. We were flying. So, so I think the RHO has been a mild success. But like you said,
the reason for it being a mild success, both with the engine and with the powertrain is that Ford did it a long time ago, and they're kind of copying Ford, and they're in some ways copying themselves, too, right? I mean, well, it's hard to go from a TRX to a RHO. When you're going from over 700 horsepower to a mere 500 ish, right? And so I think I think it didn't create the waves. I think that the RAM was hoping because it was meant to be a replacement for
or at least it was you can't perceive to be a place with the TRX, but it was down 200 horsepower. And also it does have the noise that the TRX makes. Yeah, it doesn't, that's another problem. That's a good point. The hurricane is very quiet. Yeah, it's very quiet. It's fairly efficient. And when you're efficient, you're also quiet, right? If you're inefficient, you're loud and you're yelling. And that's what the TRX was. So the RHO is a pretty good truck. Actually, Colin and I just drove it in Michigan. Another RHO. Yeah, I'm sure.
And that video is coming. And what do you think your second take on it? He was a fully loaded one. How much? Do you want to know? Yeah, how much?
$97,000.
Okay, so basically more than the first TRX we paid for, dude, you paid for the company, $77,000 for the first TRX, like four years ago.
Yes. And that had a few options on it. Yeah. That's insane. Now you're paying $98,000.
$97,000 for an RHO. Yeah, fully loaded, though. Yeah, fully loaded.
Remember this one we have when we disagree on the Honda that we've got coming up. Just remember that.
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Right now at car Subaru and Beaverton sign for the 2025 Subaru share the love event so much love.
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Every mile every day.
All right. What else is the winner? What else is on your list?
Well, we purchased a truck this year, which is an F-150 tremor, but the winner is the engine, actually.
Because the five-liter coyote is not new. It's been around for a very long time.
But you and I have tested the heck out of this truck. We did MPG loops on the tremor 100. We did towing tests.
And it's just a great engine to do it all around.
So I might disagree again.
What? I think it's got a great sound. That verbal isn't credible.
But for me, it was a disappointment.
What?
I think it's underpowered because you think that you're going from a six cylinder, like a 3.5 liter.
It's because you're spoiled by turbos, right? You think you're getting this big old V8.
And yet, when you actually start towing with it, it really is working hard.
Whereas the 3.5 and the Ford EcoBoost F-150 is just like, hey, no sweat.
Whereas the coyote is really working hard and you can really feel it.
So remember, we borrowed this trailer in Salt Lake City and we towed it all the way back.
How much did that thing weigh? It was like an adventure.
It's like a 7,000.
7,000 pounds.
And I felt like the 5 liter was struggling at times.
It was because it has to rev up to make all of its power.
It's revving really high.
And the other thing that disappointed me is that it's the same engine that's in the Mustang.
And yet, it's detuned by a lot.
It's tuned differently.
Detuned to tune.
Okay, you could say differently, but it's putting out less power than it does in the Mustang.
It puts out, oh, I should know this.
490 horsepower.
And this is 400.
Yeah, so you're basically down 25% from the Mustang.
And I don't understand why.
Yeah, can't you have the same power that you have in the Mustang?
I understand why, because a Mustang will never tow a trailer and it's a lightweight car.
So I think in that case, it's pretty easy for them to kind of get the same reliability out of an engine
and actually making it a lot more kind of high RPM power there.
And in the truck, you want torque.
So I think what they're doing there is they're giving that engine a little bit more torque down low.
And then also detuning the power so it can last pulling those trailers.
Yeah, I think you're actually exactly right, but it does leave kind of you wanting.
Some money on the table in this case horsepower on the table.
But I put it here as a winner and I kind of agree with you.
It's working really hard towing a trailer, especially in the mountains.
But it kind of surprised me because the V8 in my mind is something that's really thirsty, right?
But actually, this engine's been really good on RMPG testing.
I think the EcoBoost is actually thirsty in real world.
So this coyote is actually, you know, don't discount it for being like a ton of V8.
And here's the other interesting thing.
I remember reading a start that about 10% of F-150s come with the coyote.
How many?
10%.
10%.
I think it's closer to like 20%.
It could be.
But it's not a huge.
But it's not a huge.
And I was surprised by that because I remember maybe it's just a vocal minority of you guys out there.
I'll wish you had a V8 because all the comments whenever we test the EcoBoost or you know an R8 show it needs a V8.
And then for all of the kind of gnashing of teeth and ringing of hands only 2 out of 10 of you buy the actual coyote.
The V8, the rest are getting either the 6 cylinder or the 2735.
You know, I mean, there's a lot of other choices in the Ford lineups.
And so it's interesting that it's such a low take rate.
It's kind of like stick shift transmissions.
Everybody wants a stick shift, but at the end of the day, it's like less than 10% now.
Yeah.
All right. Let's keep going, Andre. What else do you consider a winner?
Well, we've been, you guys have been asking for this.
Yeah.
The viewers and listeners have been asking us to actually put some real weight behind trucks when we accelerate and do some drag racing.
And we did that.
Toa off.
So call maybe you could look up one video at least where we did some heavy duty toe off drag racing, which is really hard to do.
Because we have to have multiple trailers at the same time.
And we thank goodness.
We got pretty lucky and we did it.
You guys did great.
I mean, you have to get the track.
The track doesn't like us doing heavy vehicles.
Yeah.
We have to get matching trailers.
And so that was also heavy lifts.
I'm really proud that we were able to do that.
I'm proud of you, Andre.
Nice work.
And that was a really cool video.
Yeah, we did it with heavy duty trucks.
We also repeated it with full-size halftone trucks.
So that was really fun.
And we learned a lot.
Yeah, it was really cool.
And hopefully we could do some more TFL toe offs.
Maybe next year, focus on the mid-size trucks.
Yep.
Heavy duties would be really hard.
Unless they're all new.
Unless they're all new.
And then we'll be forced to.
Yeah.
All right.
I agree.
That was a winner of a series of TFL toe off.
What else you got?
I put down hybrid pickup trucks.
Yep.
Because, well, a loser was EV truck.
We'll talk about it later.
But really, we owned a Maverick this year.
That was a winner.
I think it was one of our favorites.
It was my favorite truck of the year.
Yeah.
It was my everyday driver.
And unfortunately my mom passed away this year.
Earlier at the beginning of the year.
And then I had to clean out her place that she had.
And I used that little Maverick.
A lot to haul a lot of stuff.
And it was surprisingly easy.
Yeah, very useful.
Because it doesn't have a very tall lift over, right?
Because it's such a low truck.
And it has an incredible payload.
If I remember right, 1,400 pounds of payload for a Maverick.
Yeah.
More than the RHO.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I know.
So yeah.
So it was very efficient.
It was all-wheel drive hybrid.
And also the F-150 hybrid that we recently tested is also quite a good pickup truck for a hybrid.
Toyota Coma and Tundra hybrids are less of my favorites because they're not super efficient.
They're kind of, you know, they're very powerful but not very efficient.
Yeah, that's a head scratcher.
So most people, I think at this point, associate hybrids with fuel efficiency.
I think that's fair, especially Toyota hybrids.
Yes.
And then for some unbeknownst reason, Toyota decided that in their trucks,
instead of making them more fuel efficient using the hybrid system, they're going to make them more powerful.
So you think that a hybrid Tundra or a hybrid Tacoma will get crazy MPGs.
But it gets like one MPG better than the nonhybrid.
And I think that's very confusing in terms of where it's positioned within the brand.
Yeah.
I agree.
So that's kind of why I called out some of the Ford because I think Ford is doing it better as far as hybrid and pickup trucks.
And also it's weird because with the Tacomas, you make this trade off, which you don't seem to do with the Ford, right?
So the trade off is you're adding a battery which is heavy.
So you're decreasing your payload and you're increasing your weight, which is bad for fuel economy.
Yes.
And then instead of getting more fuel economy, all you're getting is slightly better power.
But it's offset by the, by the way, the battery and the loss of the payload.
So it doesn't seem to be a trade off worth making when it comes to the hybridization of the Toyota trucks.
Those are a little bit of a headscratcher into me.
But do you want to move to this one?
Sure.
Because you put Tacoma on the fuel.
I put it as a winner because I think they did what they needed to do to keep it the best selling truck in the land.
Next I truck, I should say.
And it actually is crazy successful, right?
Yeah, they're selling what?
How many 200 plus thousand a year?
Yeah, I think they're on a record-breaking pace.
So I think they may sell more than the quarter million trucks Tacomas this year, which is crazy.
Let's just jump quickly to a loser because we're talking about Toyota.
I think that Toyota's reputation for reliability took a giant hit this year, especially with the Tundra.
The Tundra engine recall.
Yeah.
And with what happened with our Tacoma, which was very public, unfortunately, but that's what we do.
Where actually we broke a front diff by off-roading it.
And I think a lot of people in the industry are asking themselves this question.
Is Toyota making a trade off in its long-term reliability versus its short-term profits?
I think that is a conversation that's kind of quietly happening in the background that maybe hasn't become public yet.
But, you know, listening to the people in the industry, I'm hearing those questions asked.
And when you recall 200,000 Tundra's, and not just recall them, these are engine replacements.
Yeah.
Which is a pretty striking recall.
Yeah, so we'll see.
I mean, time will tell.
The question, of course, that we're asking is first they recalled 100,000.
And another almost 100.
They still have recalled the hybrids.
Right.
And the question is, why would the hybrid engine be any different than the non-hybrid engine?
It does have obviously electrification, but the engine is basically the same.
So the thing I'm wondering is Toyota just slowly rolling or slow rolling the recall,
because they knew that even the hybrid engines were bad or could potentially go bad,
they didn't want to announce 300,000 or whatever the heck it is in one go.
Instead, they're doing it in chunks to kind of try to make it possible to actually make the recall
because putting 100,000 new engines in...
That's going to take years.
That's going to take years.
And then, you know, if you have to do it for the hybrids as well, I'm not saying they'll have to do it,
but I'm just asking that question.
Is that the shoe that's yet to drop?
We don't know.
We don't know.
But Toyota wasn't the only one that had a recall this year.
No, for...
Oh, for...
Oh, my God.
Forth broke all the records, but number of recalls.
We'll get to that in the losers.
All right.
Let's talk about this next one because me and you had a heated argument about it.
Yeah.
I put down the ridge line and you made fun of me.
As a winner?
Yeah, you taunted me.
You said...
Yeah, why?
Well, first of all, the ridge line wasn't updated this year.
No.
And a ridge line, whenever we test one, and actually, I like the way it drives,
but people make fun of us because they say it's not a real pickup truck because it doesn't have a frame.
So I put it as a winner because this is one of those...
Is the glass half full or half empty?
And I think it's half full.
It's just a truck to keep soldiering on that if you know...
You know, people keep buying it to Honda sells about what?
30,000 of these every year.
It's been around forever.
It's very well engineered.
It's the...
It's a truck for non-truck people because basically, if you look...
If you don't look in the river mirror and you...
Don't know that it has a bed.
You could be driving a pilot.
Exactly.
It's really comfortable.
It also has a little bit wider than the Tacoma, right?
So which means there's a lot more elbow space.
It's really good.
It's got those magic seats in the back that you can lift up the bottom cushion and throw a bike in there
so you don't even have to use a bed.
Yeah.
It's got the tailgate that opens up two ways.
It flips down and folds out.
It has just a lot going for it.
And actually, so much so that we've asked Honda after you return the current passport trail sport
if we can get it for a long-term loan because I think the truck, like I said, is understated, underrated
and one of those quiet trucks that, if you know, you know.
Now, Honda, you could make this way better to make it the true winner at home.
No, I don't care about supercharging.
First of all, make it a little bit more butch.
The front of the bridge line looks like a pilot, an old pilot.
So it looks like an SUV from the front.
Also, it doesn't have enough ground clearance.
Even on some of their trail sport editions, it still doesn't have a lot of ground clearance.
So I think they could improve several aspects of this and make it just a true home run.
Yeah.
That's why I was arguing with you because I think it's good but I wasn't sure
you know, I would call it that total winner.
Yeah, I also think that it has great resale and I also like the price of it.
So let's talk about the price.
So it starts at $42,000.
Exactly.
Exactly.
How much was that?
That's all wheel drive.
Oh, wheel drive.
How much was there, Maverick?
The hybrid all wheel drive.
Yeah, that was the next LT.
That was 36.
36.
So for another $56,000, you end up with a mid-sized truck instead of a compact truck.
You end up with a V6 instead of a 4 cylinder and you end up with a lot more room and a lot more usability.
Having said that, the Maverick actually has a surprising amount of room.
But the bed is pretty tiny compared to the ridge line.
Yeah, I think the base hybrid all wheel drive Maverick is like 33, 32.
Right?
So for 10 grand more, you are buying the ridge line but I would say Maverick has way better efficiency.
Maverick is better in many respects.
I agree.
It's more fuel efficient by far, especially if you get the hybrid.
It's also more usable if you think that smaller is better.
But I think over time, the Maverick feels a little bit...
I don't want to say cheap, but there's a lot of cheap plastics.
There's a lot of cost cutting that you don't necessarily feel in the ridge line.
So I think like the Tacoma, the ridge line will have a higher resale value.
And that's also another sign of a winner.
Because people know that this is a truck that they can hold on to for a long time and then yet not lose their shirt when they go to sell it.
And we did lose our shirt on the Maverick Andre.
Maybe that was our stupidity because we sold it back to the dealer.
But we basically lost $7,000 in less than half a...
In about three quarters of a year.
We bought it for what, $37,000 and we sold it back for $31,000, I believe.
$38,000 when you put in all the dealer fees and everything else.
So we lost $7,000 in about seven months.
Thousand a month on the Maverick.
You mean $5,000?
No, $7,000.
$36,000.
$36,000 minus $31.
I was with $37 when it was all said and done.
Including taxes.
Including, like, destination and all that.
Okay.
So, Dan, thank you for joining again.
Dan, Dan is here on patreon.com slash TFL car.
So thank you, Dan, for...
Dan had a comment about F-150s.
Ford doesn't sell the Coyote but they are the first of the lots.
You say Ford doesn't sell.
We said it's about 20%.
I'm not sure that the first of the lots.
Well, I think...
I don't know if there's a way to measure that.
I don't think there's anybody.
I've never seen a stat where they measure what engine is the one that is sold first.
Let's say you have the 2, 7, the 3, 5, the Coyote and the 6 cylinder at the dealership.
Which one is the one that's going to get sold first?
I would assume that the one that has the highest take rate is the one that's probably going to be sold first
just because that's the most popular one.
But I don't want the highest discount.
Maybe.
Yeah, that's a good point.
Could be the one that's being discounted.
I mean, we bought ours because it was being discounted.
It was Ford pricing.
It was right after the tariffs hit.
So we bought ours from 68.
We bought it for 63.
But thank you for that comment.
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All right, let's keep going.
So what's next on our winner?
Scout Terra, I put that down.
Scout Terra, yes.
Why?
Because it's the right truck at the right time.
So the Scout Terra doesn't exist yet.
So the Scout Terra is a range extended vehicle.
Yes.
Scout came out with a truck and an SUV,
and you could buy it either as an all EV or one with a range extender,
which is basically, we don't know what the range extender is going to be,
but it's basically going to be a vehicle like the BMW i3
where the engine doesn't turn the wheels,
but it generates electricity, which charges up the battery,
which then turns the motor, which then turns the wheels.
And when they came out with a, apparently the story goes that they
just kind of, at the last minute through in the range extender,
and it turns out that the take rate on the range extender has been like 90%.
So 90% of people don't want the EV they want that one.
And so I think that they've hit the top of the wave just as it was cresting
where people are now deciding that the EV is not for them,
but that they want something that gives them good fuel economy
that can tow without having to be recharged every 150 miles or every 100 miles.
And I think that the scout provides that answer.
And yes, you're right, it's not going to be here this year,
and the same next year.
But I think it is coming at the right time for a majority of where people are at right now
in terms of their electric vehicle choice.
So that's why I call the winner.
So scout, I just listened to one of their podcasts where actually
they're designer Chris Benjamin who's a really cool dude who used to know
where I'm even from.
It's a big truck, by the way.
It's also almost F-150 size.
Yeah, it's not a small truck.
Cool design.
I love the design.
But I'm afraid for them because I was listening to another podcast
and somebody said that whenever you try to go up against the big three
in the pickup truck world, it's almost a losing proposition.
Well, they are part of the Volkswagen Group, which is bigger than the big three.
Well, Volkswagen is in trouble in a lot of ways.
They are in trouble, et cetera, et cetera.
But they are like nine brands.
But when you go up against the Ford's, the Chevy's and the Rams of the world in North America,
you better bring your A-game.
I think they brought their A-game.
We don't know yet because it's going to be...
It won't even be built for two years.
This doesn't matter.
They've introduced it.
We've put hands on it.
We know what it's going to look like.
What we don't know is pricing.
We don't know powertrain.
Pricing is a huge one.
But we do know...
I mean, it's out there.
It's a concept.
And it's not a concept by some fly-by-night group.
They're hiring thousands of people.
I think in Raleigh Durham where they're going to be headquartered,
they've got the support of the Volkswagen Vag,
Volkswagen Automotive Group, which builds Lamborghinis and all sorts of other vehicles,
Audi's, just to name a few.
And so this is a real thing.
So I think it's a disservice to say that it doesn't exist.
It exists.
I mean, Volkswagen's putting billions behind it.
They've got, I think, Rivians' architecture...
Software architecture.
Which is great.
Yeah.
So the ingredients are there, and I think it's going to be a winner
if they can build in and if they can keep it under, let's say...
Hard to say, because the economy at that point might be different.
But if it was today, I think they'd have to keep it under 60K.
So what will happen?
Coming in at the base model.
Coming in.
I agree.
Realistically, it's going to be more like 70,
but if they can keep it around 60 or 70, then you...
Because they also don't want to compete against Rivian.
Right.
Because they have to come in under Rivian.
Right.
And I think they said they would because that's their goal.
So, yeah, that's going to be a tough slog.
And the other winner...
I put in the Ram Rev, the Rex, went to get a range extended vehicle
because it's the same thing.
It seems like it's the right truck at the right time.
Having said that, they keep putting it off.
So I don't know what the heck it keeps...
Yeah, so...
They keep pushing the can down the road for some reason.
Ram...
So now their website...
Ram's website says it's going to be available in 2026.
So I think they also said maybe first half,
but now it's 2026.
Originally, it was supposed to come out this quarter.
Right.
And it's not...
It's not.
So who knows?
I don't know what's going on.
I think that Stellantis...
It's just so confusing because Stellantis actually does really well in Europe
with their electric vehicles.
But they really seem to struggle.
It's like the two companies...
Is it...
I always get mixed up.
Is it Renault or...
It's Pujo, right?
Who?
Stellantis, owns Pujo.
Pujo, yeah.
Yeah, so they have...
They have all...
Pujo builds all these really good electric vehicles in Europe.
They've got even a Jeep that's very...
Very well received.
I can't think of the name of it right now.
We don't get it.
I'll electric little baby.
Yeah, little baby Jeep.
But they somehow can seem to share that knowledge with Stellantis here in North America
because Stellantis here with any of their electrified products, the Jeep,
the Jeep 4xE's, is really struggling with recalls and with, you know,
the Wrangler right now, Wrangler 4xE.
You can't park in your house because it could start on fire.
There's a ton of people to park it outside.
I mean, these are pretty serious issues.
Our friend Nicole just bought the wagon of your ass.
That was a whole nightmare of a thing that happened to her.
She had a...
Are you talking about the Avenger?
Avenger, yeah.
Yeah, so somehow, like the electrifying knowledge that Pujo has has not somehow creeped
into the engineering team here and Stellantis is really struggling with it.
So I don't know.
I think it's the right truck at the right time.
I just hope that they just get it done.
Well, and I'm hoping it's slightly delayed because they want to get it right.
Yeah, that's great.
That's what I'm hoping for.
Yeah.
And if they do get it right, it could be really, really great.
It's the right truck at the right time.
And the reason we say that, we should talk about that because a Ranger stender,
you can tow with across the country and fill it up at any gas station.
And keep going as opposed to having a stop.
Let's be realistic about this every 100 miles in charge for an hour,
which has been the problem with a lot of electric trucks.
And the last one I put down is the Ranger Raptor.
I think it's probably the best value in trucks right now.
$57,000 for the most capable off-road mid-size truck you could buy.
You can argue that maybe the TRD Pro is more capable
or maybe the Canyon Colorado twins, especially if you go with the AT4X
with the AEV edition.
Those could be more capable, but those are all $10,000 to $20,000 more.
Whereas the Ranger Raptor at $57,000 is just a hell of a good truck bargain.
Yeah, I think I'm still sad.
We sold it.
Yeah, I'm still crying a little bit inside.
And that would help us value.
Yeah.
And they're still very valuable, actually.
Yeah.
It could be the Raptor thing.
Actually, Ford, I don't know if they're not building enough on purpose.
You know, but I think they should build more.
They could be doing the Porsche thing and the Lamborghini thing and the Ferrari thing
where they're keeping the supply low because they need to build more of them
because people want them and you can't find them anywhere.
So those are our winners.
Let's talk about our losers.
There's one more thing I wanted to say on the winners.
If you get the coyote, one of the great things about it is for a mere $11,000.
You can add a supercharger to it with the factory warranty at your local Ford dealership
and get over $700,000 horsepower.
A mere $11,000.
Yes, a mere $11,000.
But still, that's not bad.
So we paid $63,000.
That's called $75,000.
So for $75,000, you can have a $700,000 horsepower supercharged off-roader.
If you've got the tremor version like ours.
Or street truck.
Or street truck.
It doesn't matter which one.
You could do both.
Yeah.
Originally the plan for ours was the supercharger, but the problem with supercharging
is we're going to spend $11,000 on it.
We're going to make a couple of videos that are going to make, you know,
let's call it a grand and then we're going to be having to sell the truck
and no one's going to give you that money back when you go to sell it.
No one's going to care about the fact, unfortunately, that it's supercharged.
It's kind of a loose, loose.
It's kind of a loose for us.
Yeah.
Unless you keep it.
Yeah.
Unless you keep it for 10 years.
Yeah, then that's a win-win.
Yeah.
Right.
Losers.
You've got Nissan Armada Nismo.
Why did you call that a loser?
Well, because I really love the Armada.
Yeah.
I love the Pro4X.
Yeah.
But when they created the Nismo, it just doesn't make any sense to me.
So it's kind of got a, it's got a body kit.
So we drag-raced it, right?
So we took it to our air strip.
Case was there.
You were there.
We put it up against the Toyota Sequoia, which is a hybrid.
And the Nismo wasn't super, super quick.
I mean, it's big and heavy.
So they're combining a sport element with a giant SUV.
It just doesn't make a lot of sense right now.
In my mind, Andre, I would include the Maverick in this.
What's this?
The slam one?
The low bottom?
The low bottom?
I would include any truck that is supposed to be or any vehicle.
Let's just go into that.
It's supposed to be the performance brand.
But they put stickers on.
They give it cool colors.
They change the body cladding.
But they don't touch the powertrain.
The heart of it is more power.
And how can you, how can you create something that doesn't have more power?
And call it high performance.
High performance.
That just doesn't compute with it.
Well, so the Nismo Armada is supposed to have the high octane tuning.
So if you use high octane fuel, it's supposed to give you a little bit more horsepower.
A great example.
Go ahead.
But it's not enough.
You saw the QX80 GTR engine at SEMA.
Now that was cool.
Now that was freaking insane.
Nismo, you want to make this a serious performer?
Yes.
Stuff a GTR engine like they did for the SEMA show.
Cool.
Can you pull up that crazy QX80 that Roman saw at SEMA?
Here's a good example of that.
Imagine that you've got the CA Corvette and you've got four variants.
You've got the Stingray.
You've got the Z06.
You've got the E-Ray.
And you've got the Z-R1.
Now, imagine that if the difference between all those more stickers and a body kit.
And not going from 500 horsepower to like 700 to 1000 or a Z-R1 X or 1200.
That's basically what you got.
And here you have what Nissan should have done from the Gecko, which is stuff the GTR powertrain.
Look at those exhausts, Andre.
That's insane.
That is insane.
Yeah.
So I don't get the Nismo Armada.
It also has the body kit, but it looks cool.
Yeah.
You've got the bigger tires, but it all starts with the powertrain.
You could put better suspension on, you could put fatter tires forward on this video.
Look, there you go.
Now that is what you got.
Now that's an engine.
That's what you want to see when you looked up a Nismo Armada.
Wow.
Yeah, that's what you want to see, including the person's name and scripted on the engine.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
So these guys did it right.
All right.
What's next?
EV trucks, except for Chevy and GMC.
Why did you say, well, we know why you said EV trucks because...
Well, they're out of favor for their front 50 lightening.
It was just announced that they're discontinuing.
They're no longer building f-150 lightening.
But they also said they're going to build a range extended lightening soon, but they didn't say when.
Ford took a huge loss on their EV.
Yeah.
Because they were building big factories.
They were building...
There were a lot of changes.
There were factories for batteries, right?
Yeah.
That also never came to fruition.
They broke up their partnership that they had with the factory for batteries.
I'm wondering if Ford...
There's two things that I'm wondering.
First, if they came to a realization that whatever technology they were working on when it comes...
When it came to electrification was just not going to be competitive in the marketplace.
Because that's how I kind of feel about the lightening.
The lightening is the best.
I'm going to go on a limb.
It's the best f-150 you can buy.
By far.
It's better than the coyote.
It's better than the EcoBoost.
And I can support it.
It's quiet.
It's quick.
It's all those things.
Yeah.
It's got onboard power.
It just doesn't go very far.
It rides better than all the other ones because of the weight and because of the rear suspension.
Yeah.
It's just...
It's the best f-150 you can buy by far.
And yet, because of its range...
And charging that word.
And charging speed.
Yes.
The technology isn't there where it should be in terms of where the kind of the greatest and newest EV tech is right now.
And so maybe Ford came to the realization that the Chinese...
Because Farley is probably the most outspoken of the major American CEOs.
That the Chinese are so far ahead that they can't compete at this level.
So why try?
Maybe that was a realization.
Or maybe they felt...
And they've got a lot of people looking into the future of things and where they're going.
And maybe they saw the writing on the leaves and they thought that in America
we're definitely not going to go electric so why not focus on what is their core competency.
In this case, it's V8s and hybrids and such.
So maybe that's where that came from.
But you're right.
I kind of feel like they pulled the plug too early on the f-150 lightning.
I think that if they had kept developing it, there would have been a market that would have...
Well, it's also three years old.
Three and a half years old.
And they didn't do anything.
And they didn't refresh it.
They kept it the same.
So people just got bored of it.
It's not except Chevy and GMC because it seems like Chevy and GMC, they expanded their lineups
and they're still doing kind of okay.
Except we don't know the numbers after the tax incentives went away.
We don't know how they're doing quite yet.
Well, if you're going to tow with the electric truck, those are really the only two.
Because they have huge batteries.
That you could actually...
So yeah.
You know, we also forgot the winner.
What else is the winner?
It's the Hummer EV.
It's surprisingly...
There was like a lot of excitement when it first came out.
People were all over the moon.
And then people decided that it was stupid.
And the cyber truck became the toast of the town.
And then people decided that that was stupid.
And now kind of the big, brash, bold Hummer EV has come back.
And GM quietly kept developing it so that it actually is relatively good off road.
The problem, of course, is it weighs a ton.
Well, he's 9,000 pounds, which is more than a ton.
But the problem is that as an off road beast,
it's got that huge weight issue.
But nevertheless, I think it's kind of become cool again.
And I think that's why it's a winner.
Even though it's electric, right?
Yeah.
It's got a little bit of an extreme crud again.
It's got the swagger.
Yeah, Cole and I were just talking about this yesterday when we're in Michigan
because you see a lot of Hummers rolling around,
especially North of Detroit.
But it's so expensive, dude.
I mean, what did the carbon addition Hummer recently?
It was like $122,000.
Yeah.
I mean, these Chevy's are more like $70,000.
So anyways, you know what else is a loser?
Or a winner however you want to look at it?
If you're a scammer, the winner is AI.
And if you're a loser, then...
No, if you're not a loser.
If you're a...
If you're a...
If you're a consumer, then AI.
I don't know how many times I've seen emails, comments from...
I'm guessing it's guys over 60 who ask us...
Who ask us?
When is the caterpillar pickup truck coming?
When is the John Deere pickup truck?
The new John Deere pickup truck coming?
When is the new El Camino coming?
I've seen that.
I want to take my money GM.
Oh, Toyota Stout is here.
The Toyota Stout is here.
And none of these trucks exist.
There's so much noise out there.
And it's generated by...
I'm taking guessing scammers who decide that the best way to make money
is to fake the existence of a...
John Deere pickup truck that's going to cost $10,000.
It's going to have 500,000 pounds of payload.
And it's going to be available tomorrow.
So go and get it.
Go and buy them.
Go and buy them.
It's all BS, guys.
It's all fake.
It's all...
At least when you see...
This is this...
You know, I made a mistake, Andre.
I thought that when we started 15 years ago that we would have developed this reputation
for reliability and honesty and being on top of the news.
But apparently all it takes is a computer AI program.
And a YouTube channel and an AI program.
And you can crap out anything you want out there and people will believe it.
And nobody seems to understand that maybe you should consider the source.
You know, before you go and...
Let's pick a YouTube channel, great new trucks,
and then post it on Facebook and send it to all your friends
that there's a new caterpillar truck coming that's going to be a six by six
that you can buy.
Which doesn't exist.
Yeah, that you can buy for $14,000.
I don't know.
I mean, we try.
We try.
There's such an avalanche of BS.
We keep trying.
And guys, here's something that I learned.
I think you learned that we all learned when we were like 10.
If it's too good to be true.
It probably is.
It probably is, yeah.
So...
I wanted to just mention that Jonathan, he's also in the chat room here.
So thank you, Jonathan, for joining.
He was just mentioning that the Nismo body kit on the Armada looks kind of silly.
Yeah, it looks like...
It looks like...
It looks like...
The truck is hiking up its skirt.
It does!
It does have a longest skirt.
And it's like...
It's in the back.
It's kind of hiking it up.
Kind of like...
Like those videos you see on Facebook where women are wearing way too short of skirts.
For some reason...
Well, I know why they're doing it.
Of course, it's the same reason people are putting out caterpillar trucks.
All right.
Let's keep going.
Truck recalls.
Oh, my gosh.
That's been a big loser.
So many recalls.
So many GM 6.2 engines.
Heavy duty GM transmissions.
Ford recalls.
I think every single pickup truck had a recall.
Yeah.
I also think part of it is traditional car companies say truck companies are really good at building trucks,
but really bad at software.
So a lot of it has to do with software.
They just struggle with coming and building usable software,
which is something that Tesla is really good at, by the way.
And Rivian as well.
But then the rest of it is confusing because we've been building internal combustion engines
for over 100 years.
Same thing with transmissions.
But a lot of this is maybe because we've gone from six-feeds to 10-speed transmissions.
And so now there's a lot more complexity.
Have you seen the inside of a six-speed transmission?
Can you imagine what a 10-speed looks like?
It looks like a brain.
A human brain.
Yeah.
There's so much.
And of course now you're adding electrification.
And you're adding turbocharging.
And so there's a lot more complexity.
Or in the case of GM, cylinder reactivation.
But they've been doing that forever as well.
And yet these are all things that are constantly breaking.
Yeah.
And I don't know what it is.
I mean, you mentioned maybe corner cutting or corporate profits have to do something with a lot of this.
But it doesn't cost more money.
How much is Toyota paying to replace 200,000 tundra engines?
On godly model money.
And what happens to all those engines once they replace them?
I know.
Do they sit behind the dealership?
Do they pile up?
Or do they get sold like co-part?
What happens to all those?
My God.
You know what we should do?
We should buy some of those engines for like what's five bucks?
Yeah.
And create like coffee tables out of them.
Yeah, it'd be cool.
Yeah.
A little coffee table.
I think it's all 300,000, 200,000 at this point.
Coffee tables.
So yeah, recalls.
And honestly, Andre, I think it's so many recalls now.
Ford is almost at 150 that we're just overwhelmed by him.
We don't even report on him anymore because it just feels like there's so much noise out there that you can't keep up with it.
And you guys have turned off the volume because there's just so much.
It's hard to keep track.
But also, I'll say this really quick about recalls is some recalls are very minor.
Like, we miss printed a sticker.
And some are like, don't park your electric inside.
You may burn down your house.
So there's a variance of significance with those recalls.
And also a variance in the number of vehicles, right?
So I have one idea why this is happening.
And I'm going to blame you Tesla.
I'm looking at you.
Uh-oh.
Once upon a time, and we used to do this a lot, manufacturers would test the, you know what, out of their vehicles before they would sell them.
Now we're seeing manufacturing doing what Tesla does.
And that is basically selling beta versions and letting the consumer, in other words, the truck buyer be the beta tester.
So they're not, they're basically half-baked vehicles.
And you just saw it with Volvo with the EX90 where they actually actually had replaced like the heart of the car,
the computer because it didn't have enough brain power.
And this is expensive stuff, right?
Of course not.
But this is the main computer.
There's a lot of little small computers.
And you're seeing that a lot more where they're just not ready for prime time.
And yet, here we are, beta testing them.
All right. Let's keep going.
Ineos, quartermaster.
Why is that a loser?
That's on my list.
You put it here.
I'll tell you why.
You won't answer this.
Because it got hit with the chicken tax.
And then they got hit with Trump's tariffs.
Ooh.
So for the longest time, we have not gotten any world commercial vehicles because of the stupid chicken tax,
which is a tariff that goes back to the 60s where we tariffed European chickens,
or they tariffed American chickens and then they responded by tariffing trucks.
It makes no sense.
It's so stupid, Andre.
So stupid.
And it's a 25% duty on any commercial vehicle.
And companies have tried to go, but this truck, which I would love to actually,
we've actually, the reason I put it on there, I'll be honest, Andre is because we've asked
Ineos to give us a long-term loan of one.
Yes.
We can help them sell some more of them because we do trucks.
I think we're the biggest truck YouTube channel in terms of pure reviews.
And so we've asked them forward.
And so I know you guys are getting hit with like a double tariff,
making the thing ungodly expensive.
How much are they?
They're eating like 25,000 or 95.
I think they may be more now.
Yeah, I mean Ineos is, and they're a big petrochemical company.
So I guess they can afford to do it, but still, it's not a business case.
If you have to eat $25,000 on every truck you import.
And they're still $100,000 a truck.
So we were just, double tariff, man.
Double tariffed.
We were just visiting with our friend Jay, Jay Couch.
And he actually has owns one of these.
And he's, you know, he beats up.
He's trucks very, very hard.
This is the guy who has a bunch of, you've got to take a trip.
Yeah.
In his backyard.
And he actually really likes the engineering of the restaurant.
So, so it could be really, really great.
It's just losing because of all this.
Double tariff.
Double tariff.
Yeah, all right.
Slate.
Slate.
The reason I put that there is because.
Has the doors.
No, no, that's that too.
But mainly because they initially came out the door saying that it was going to be.
It's because of the rain.
That was stupid.
That was really bad.
They parked the truck in California right next to the road.
Outside.
During the LA Auto Show so that apparently people were in the bar drinking.
Whereas the truck is parked out in the rain on a main road.
And that was really brave of Tommy to do that review.
So we were one of the few to actually do a review of it because it was so.
That event was so silly.
Anyway, the reason I put Slate on it is because they lost the tax incentive.
So it was supposed to be a $20,000 all electric truck.
The most affordable truck in the land.
And now because of that $75,000 tax rate that went away.
It's going to be I'm guessing more than $20,000.
We don't know.
Well, at least 27.
Yeah, but we're not quite sure.
And it's also two doors.
It's also two doors.
No two door sell.
But they shouldn't.
You know, there's this thing that's going on right now.
And he keeps seeing it over and over and over again.
Where companies that don't sell trucks, Andre.
They think that there's this wealth of customers who don't buy trucks that will buy trucks.
So they're ignoring the traditional truck market.
They're ignoring taxes and all the people who are buying trucks.
And they're like, you know what?
We'll get all these people who are buying.
And it makes it kind of makes sense.
Right?
They're like, hey, we'll get all the people who are buying SUVs to buy trucks.
Yeah.
But over and over and over and reviewing this prove this is not the case.
You're not going to convert instead of selling to truck buyers.
You're going to be selling to this other market of people that I think don't exist.
And then you ignore the truck buyer.
And I know that because when Slay came out, not only did they not invite us,
same thing happened with Ruby and when they did a program here in Colorado,
you know, largest truck YouTube channel.
And this is part of my prize, speaking and I completely understand that.
But still, it says a lot about the company when they don't invite the people who actually review the thing they're selling.
All right.
Cyber truck.
Definitely a loser.
Yeah.
Probably the biggest loser.
I mean, high hopes.
I mean, actually, the cyber truck pushed 2 million reservations when it first came out.
2 million reservations.
2 million reservations.
2 million and they sold what?
Less than 100,000?
Yes.
What happened to all those reservations?
They evaporated.
Yes.
Actually, the cyber truck pushed.
They have 50 lightening to exist.
It pushed the Silverado EV to exist.
I think the cyber truck pushed a lot of other companies into existence.
I mean, to create electric pickup trucks.
But now, they're just losing.
Yeah.
And I like that.
I'll be a hot-taken Andre.
I really like the cyber truck.
I was sad to sell it.
I think it's actually a really good cyber car.
It may not be a cyber truck.
I mean, the engineering behind it is just so smart.
It's got things that no other vehicle in its class has.
So obviously, air suspension where in its extract mode, you can jack it up to over 14 inches, which is incredible.
Steer by wire, which is also incredible because it allows you to have variable ratio steering.
So, you know, your inputs changed based on how fast you're going, which is actually very intuitive.
Once you get used to it, rear wheel steering, which makes it much more nimble than its size would suggest.
I love that Tannout cover that's part of it where you can use it as like my friend Steve Fluen.
And I went to pick him up in this and it was raining.
And, you know, they had a lot of luggage.
And so we just threw it in the bed and then closed the Tannout cover.
It was water resistant.
I'm not sure it's waterproof.
I did really well.
I also like the space.
It's a big truck.
There's a lot of room.
But of course, there were mistakes were made a lot of well.
I don't want to go litany of mistakes.
The biggest mistake the Tesla made is they over-promised and under-performed.
This was supposed to be a $39,000 truck.
How much do we pay for ours?
100,000.
Yes.
And that was not the most expensive one.
No, there was a choice between the Cyber Beast.
Cyber Beast was $20,000.
Yeah.
So when you promise a truck that can beat an F-150 for $39,000.
Yes, that's something.
And then you come out with one that's $100,000 at its cheapest.
Eventually went down to $80,000.
That's a classic example of over-promising under-performing.
Yeah.
And also, it looks odd and it's not the shape is wrong and the squircle is wrong.
Okay.
And the build quality is bad.
You put the Rivian R1T here.
Yeah.
I love the Rivian R1T.
It looks the same as the old one.
The Gen 2, yes.
Yeah.
They haven't changed the look of it whatsoever.
And two things.
It's incredible off-road.
It's got 1,000 horsepower.
It's actually one of the best off-road electric trucks you could buy.
But the biggest problem in my mind is one.
My neighbor has one.
And if I brought the new one home, which I did in the R1S,
you couldn't tell the difference.
So why would he buy one?
I mean, what's the point?
It's the same.
And two, the off-road one.
Instead of going like really off-roady where they put stickers on it
and make it, you know, like this is a truck that will eat the Baha 1000 for lunch.
They made it very stylish, this beautiful interior.
And you just feel like, God, I don't want to take this thing off-road, you know.
I don't want to get my muddy boots on this beautiful carpet and these beautiful mats.
And then like the only way that you can tell that you've got the 1,000 horsepower one
is it's got this little gear guy.
Yeah.
And it's a little, he's a little like Yeti.
And his hair is flowing back.
And so there's this little tiny sticker.
Imagine like if you bought, you know, the ZR, I'm going back to Corvette.
Yeah.
The ZR1.
One X, right?
And the only way you could tell it from a stingray was that there was like some guy sprinting.
Like a tiny little guy, two inch guy.
Like, okay, now I've got the 1,200 horsepower one versus the 500 horsepower one.
It's like, they don't understand, I think, or they seem to think that...
Look, I like understated.
I like understated.
But this is two understated.
Well, it has its own aesthetic, right?
It almost reminds me of like Land Rover Range Rover.
Right?
Very stately, very well.
Yeah, but the actor did.
You've seen the actor?
Yeah.
The actor's butch.
It's got the amber lights and all that stuff.
It's got the big wheel feathers.
Yeah.
Big tires.
Yeah.
Big navies.
Yeah.
It's not that understated.
Yeah.
That's what the Rivian should be.
Yeah.
Right.
And this one might be a little...
Well, we talked about EV failing.
Yeah.
So we don't have to talk about the Ram EV failing again.
Right.
It did fail.
It did fail.
So the next one is the Gladiator.
Why is that not selling?
Well, first of all, it was way overpriced for a long time.
Yeah.
For a long time.
So when Stellantis really took over, right?
They jacked up the price of the Gladiator insane.
I remember they had a special edition Gladiator.
I think it was diesel at that point.
It is the only convertible truck, Andre.
Okay.
There's value there.
I guess.
Okay.
That was $72,000 room.
And so I think people just said that's enough.
There's a rumor we can't.
Isn't the rumor they confirmed the rumor?
Yeah.
It's still a rumor.
That the 392 is going to be slammed into.
Yeah.
There's a big rumor that the 392 V8 Gladiator is coming soon.
So that would be...
Could also be expensive.
Oh, that'll definitely be expensive.
Yeah.
The 32 jeeps were expensive, the Wranglers.
You think that would inject some life into the Gladiator?
If you had a big old V8.
Maybe.
Is there a midsize truck with the V8?
There isn't.
It would be the little one.
No, no, no.
Yeah.
It could definitely wake it up.
Yeah.
I agree.
Yeah.
It's just not been selling really great.
All right.
I put this as me.
You may have other thoughts.
I put the Ram 2500 Cummins on the new Cummins on this list.
And the reason I did that is because for a long time,
as long as we've been doing this,
there's been this war between the truck manufacturers,
and it's been all about who's got the most towing,
who's got the most horse power,
who's got the most pump,
where a feet pound, well, torque.
And I was a little disappointed in the Cummins when it came out.
I thought that they would have at least matched,
if not surpassed the Ford,
well, you wanted them to leapfrog.
Yeah, but they didn't.
They didn't even match the...
Maybe we've got to the point where you can't,
because it's already so high.
But I remember when Jim Morrison was running Ram,
remember, they had the Cummins,
where we told...
There was a first to reach a thousand pound feet.
Oh, Pete, yeah.
We told like 30,000 pounds with it or something.
Yes, yes.
And now, the current Cummins is not all that.
Yeah, I agree to some extent.
I mean, they are doing good because they're offering good value,
different value options.
We recently tested the Heavy Duty Warlock, right?
But I agree.
I mean, they could have done way better.
They just need to redesign the entire truck.
You know what I'm saying?
Because they kept the old cab, they kept the old chassis.
The frame is kind of aging.
So the GM redid their frames in 2020.
Ford redid their stuff in 2017.
But Ram is still kind of soldering on with some of their slightly older tech.
All right, and the last one, because we talked about this one,
we don't even talk about it again.
And I put the Santa Cruz on there because I think there was a competition to see
which of the compact trucks was a winner in the marketplace.
It was the Maverick or the Santa Cruz.
The Santa Cruz went after the lifestyle, folk, right?
This was kind of a truck that you go and...
Once again, trying to sell trucks to non-truck trucks.
Yeah, the little surf trucks.
And then Ford went after the trucky truck.
And I think it's clear in terms of sales that the Ford was the winner.
The popular way to go.
Because how many do they sell a year?
I think they're going to sell 160,000 Mavericks.
And this sells like 30,000-ish.
Probably close to maybe 35.
Yeah.
So five to one, four to one, something like that.
Maverick, so I kind of feel like if you're going to go after truck buyers,
go after truck buyers.
Don't try to expand the market.
Just go after the people who are buying trucks.
Yes.
Well, there you have it, guys.
One more word about Ram.
Yeah.
There's some news coming.
Oh, there's some news.
Big news.
Big news coming Sunday.
Not this Sunday.
What Sunday?
Actually, not even Sunday.
What's the date?
There's day.
So Cole, can you please look up on YouTube?
Ram Trucks.
YouTube channel.
Ram Trucks.
Ram Trucks.
No, Andre is under a bargo.
No, just one word, the Ram Trucks.
So I can ask you too much because there's only...
I know something.
You know a lot, dude.
You know a lot.
And you're not sharing, but you can't.
But...
I can't.
But look at this video.
This will give you a hint.
Yeah, because Sam flowing over a...
It's really windy.
It's really windy.
It's really windy.
That's really giving us a huge hint of what's coming.
There's a sand dune.
And it says, power will be reborn on January 1st.
Power will be reborn on January 1st.
Yes.
January 1st?
It's an odd day.
I think I saw the Ineos Grenadier.
Because...
Because I call it the hangover day.
Oh, okay.
Is that what you're calling?
No.
I'm way past that.
Okay.
Oh, by the way, here's a little Roman rant.
Yeah.
I find New Year's Eve the most...
Disappointing of all holidays.
Right?
Because there's this huge build up of...
There's sadness.
It's this huge build up of what's coming.
Everybody's all excited.
End of the old year.
Bring in the New Year.
And it's just so anti-climactic.
This little like...
Shiny ball falls.
And then you got a drunk...
What's the guy on CNN?
What's his name?
Oh, Anderson Cooper.
You got a drunk Anderson Cooper with the guy from Housewives.
It's just so...
You know, and then you got something like third string band playing.
And then it's inevitably raining in New York.
Everybody's wearing 2026 sunglasses.
It's the same thing I've seen a million times.
And by 10 o'clock, I'm bored and I'm asleep.
It's so...
Maybe...
Maybe cold.
You go party, you're...
He raves.
He goes to raves.
So that's gotta be fun.
If you're on a rave, that would be maybe fun.
And you're out there like partying and having a good time listening to music.
Yeah.
But if you're an old fart like me and you're watching it on TV,
there's just not a lot to look forward to on New Year's Eve.
Except for the fact that you terrify that if you...
If you drive somewhere,
some drunk person's gonna see more on you.
Anyways, so...
So on January 1st,
we're gonna kick off the New Year in a huge way.
Like by talking about the things that we...
And we will not be hungover.
I promise you.
Nobody will be hungover.
Because we recorded before that.
That's right.
That's...
Okay.
Because if we actually recorded it on the first,
it might be a different podcast.
Okay.
What are you doing?
Do you have plans?
I'm going skiing.
You're going skiing.
There you go.
If there's snow.
Yeah.
I don't know if there's snow.
Now it's the 70th on Monday.
So yeah, we're trying to go skiing to Berghatory.
You know, there's a mountain near Durango.
Yeah.
Colorado.
So yeah, my family will work on that.
You know, it's all well and good.
All these high horse power trucks until it's 70 in December in Colorado.
Which is unusual.
Which is...
Yeah, not good.
All right.
Well, thank you for joining us on this episode.
And as always, check out Tommy and this time case on the CFL Car Chat.
We're swapping it on our own.
We're swapping it.
Yeah, we're kind of changing things around.
And come back next week where we talk about the tricks that we're looking forward to.
Probably you and K.
We're looking forward to seeing in 2026.
Which one are you?
Give them a hint.
Is there one that you're super excited?
I was going to say Scout Terra.
But you disappointed me, my man.
You said this is until 2027.
Yeah, it's coming later.
Ram.
I want to see the wrench extend there.
Yeah.
Ram.
Yeah, that'll be cool.
All right.
Let's talk about it.
We'll see you next time.
Ciao.
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Hey!
It's Mike Chase here with Brad Preble from Car Subaru in Beirton.
It's time for the 2025 Subaru share the love event.
I started thinking about all the stuff we've done this year.
We did the Subaru loves to learn.
We washed the cars for the Beaver Acres Elementary staff.
Thank you so much.
We so appreciate all the love from Subaru.
We're so excited you guys are here.
In the Go Pet Rescue, we had a puppy fest, a puppy marathon, so people could come and meet these puppies and adopt their puppies and give them forever homes.
So we brought these lovely puppies to Car Subaru to meet potential adopters.
It's all coming to a nice landing here at the end of the year with the 2025 Subaru share the love event.
The love is being shared with the Sunshine Division and Providence Child Center.
Subaru is giving 250 cars Subaru throwing in another hundred bucks.
So with each lease or purchase, it's a $350 donation to both of those charities right here where we live.
And there's even some national charities that you can add to your choice.
The perfect time to get a car.
The 2025 Subaru share the love event at Car Subaru in Beaverton.
With you all the way.
Every mile every day.
About this episode
A lively discussion unfolds as hosts analyze the winners and losers in the truck market for 2025. They delve into the TFL Truck of the Year competition, highlighting extensive testing methods that prioritize data over personal preference. Notable mentions include the RAM 1500 with the Hurricane engine and the Maverick as standout performers, while the Cybertruck and Nismo Armada are deemed significant disappointments. The episode also teases upcoming trends and vehicles to watch for in 2026, promising an engaging look at the evolving landscape of trucks.
Original notes
( https://www.alltfl.com/ ) Check out our new spot to find ALL our content, from news to videos and our podcasts! In this episode of TFL Talkin’ Trucks, Andre and Roman break down the biggest winner and loser trucks of 2025 after a year of testing, driving, and watching the market react. On the winning side, they talk about why Ram’s Hurricane-powered trucks, Ford’s V8 Coyote, the bold Scout Terra, the often-debated Honda Ridgeline and more managed to stand out in a crowded and rapidly changing truck landscape.
On the flip side, they don’t hold back on the trucks that struggled to deliver, including the continued challenges facing EV trucks, the Ineos Quartermaster, and the ever-controversial Tesla Cybertruck. From performance and practicality to pricing and buyer expectations, Andre and Roman explain what worked, what didn’t, and what these wins and losses tell us about where the truck market is headed next.
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