Ep. 314: Europeans Believe The Chevy Corvette Isn’t World Class - These Three Generations Prove Them Wrong!
TFL Car Chat
Ep. 314: Europeans Believe The Chevy Corvette Isn’t World Class - These Three Generations Prove Them Wrong!
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Car
Chevrolet Corvettes
The Chevrolet Corvette is a fast sports car made in America. It's famous for its speed and unique design, making it a favorite among car enthusiasts.
Term
V8
A V8 engine has eight cylinders that help it produce a lot of power. It's commonly found in fast cars and trucks.
Car
Porsche 911
The Porsche 911 is a famous sports car that people love for its speed and style. It's been around for a long time and is known for being fun to drive while still being comfortable enough for daily use.
Car
Ford Edge
The Ford Edge is a medium-sized SUV that's good for families. It has a lot of room inside and comes with modern features to keep you safe and comfortable.
Term
C1 and C2
C1 and C2 are the names for the first two versions of the Corvette. They were made a long time ago and have different looks and features compared to newer models.
Concept
C4 generation
The C4 generation refers to a specific version of the Chevrolet Corvette that was made from the mid-1980s to the mid-1990s. It has a unique look and was designed to be faster and better than earlier models.
Car
Buick Grand Sport
The Buick Gran Sport is an old muscle car that was made to be fast and powerful. It's popular among car collectors because it combines speed with a bit of luxury.
Concept
C4 Corvette
The C4 Corvette is a version of the Chevrolet Corvette that was made in the 1980s and 1990s. It's known for being a stylish and powerful sports car.
Car
Dodge Viper
The Dodge Viper is a very fast sports car made by Dodge. The 1994 version is one of the earlier models and is famous for its strong engine and unique look.
Term
dual overhead cam V8
A dual overhead cam V8 engine has two parts that control the opening and closing of the engine's valves, which helps it run better and faster. It's a more advanced design than older engines with just one camshaft.
Concept
Corvette name origin
The name 'Corvette' actually comes from a type of military ship. Just like those ships are fast and agile, the Corvette car is designed to be quick and sporty.
Concept
chrome bumper cars
Chrome bumper cars are cars that have shiny metal bumpers made of chrome. This style was common in cars made from the late 1960s to the early 1980s and gives them a classic look.
Term
four-speed transmission
A four-speed transmission is a system in the car that helps it change gears. With four settings, it can adjust better to different speeds and driving conditions than a three-speed system.
Term
three-speed transmission
A three-speed transmission is a type of system that helps the car change gears. It has three different settings for speed, which can make the car go faster or slower depending on the situation.
Part
convertible top
A convertible top is the part of a convertible car that can be opened or closed. When it's open, you can enjoy the fresh air while driving.
Car
Chevy 350 V8
The Chevy 350 V8 is a type of engine made by Chevrolet. It's a powerful engine that many cars use, and it's popular because it runs well and can be modified easily.
Term
big block
A big block is a type of engine that is larger and usually more powerful than smaller engines. It's often found in fast cars.
Car
Chevrolet 427
The Chevrolet 427 is a larger and more powerful engine than the 350. It's often found in faster cars and is known for its strong performance.
Term
horsepower
Horsepower is a way to measure how powerful an engine is. The higher the horsepower, the faster and stronger the car can be.
Concept
C3 generation
The C3 generation is a specific version of the Chevrolet Corvette made between 1968 and 1982. It has a special design and was known for its powerful engines.
Part
urethane bumper
A urethane bumper is a car part made from a special plastic that helps protect the car in case of a minor accident. It's designed to be flexible and absorb shocks.
Term
emissions
Emissions are the harmful gases that cars release into the air when they burn fuel. There are rules to limit how much pollution cars can produce.
Term
malaise era
The malaise era was a time in the 1970s when cars in America became less powerful and less exciting, mainly because of rising fuel prices and new pollution laws.
Term
OPEC nations
OPEC is a group of countries that work together to control oil production and prices. In the 1970s, they stopped selling oil to some countries, which caused fuel shortages and higher prices.
Term
pop-up headlights
Pop-up headlights are headlights that can hide away when they're not needed. They pop up when you turn on the lights, making the car look smoother and more stylish.
Concept
barn find
A barn find is a car that someone finds after it has been sitting unused for a long time, usually in a barn. These cars can be special because they might be rare or have interesting histories, but they often need a lot of work to get them back on the road.
Term
fiberglass
Fiberglass is a strong and lightweight material made from tiny glass fibers. It's often used in car bodies to make them lighter and more efficient.
Term
Corvette headlights
The Corvette has a famous design with round headlights that many people recognize. These headlights are part of what makes the Corvette look special and sporty.
Car
Volkswagen Golf
The Volkswagen Golf is a small car that many people use for everyday driving. It's popular because it's easy to park, good on gas, and has enough space for passengers and luggage.
Part
15-inch wheels
15-inch wheels are the size of the wheels on a car, measured across the diameter. This size is often found on smaller or older cars and can influence how the car drives.
Part
225 tire
A 225 tire means the tire is 225 millimeters wide. The width of a tire affects how well it grips the road and how the car handles.
Term
MSRP
MSRP is the price that the car maker suggests for selling the car. It's like a recommended price, but dealers can sell it for more or less.
Term
ZR1 Special Performance Package
The ZR1 Special Performance Package is a special upgrade for the Corvette that makes it faster and better at handling. It includes a stronger engine and improved parts for better performance.
Term
torque
Torque measures how strong an engine is when it turns. It helps cars accelerate quickly and pull heavy loads.
Car
Bmw I8
The BMW i8 is a fancy sports car that uses both gas and electricity to drive. It's known for its cool design and is part of BMW's effort to make cars that are better for the environment.
Car
Chrysler 300S
The Chrysler 300 is a big car that looks stylish and is comfortable to ride in. It's a good choice for people who want a mix of luxury and space.
Car
Shelby Cobra
The Shelby Cobra is a classic sports car known for being very fast and powerful. It was popular in the 1960s and is still loved by car enthusiasts today.
Car
Porsche 911 GT3
The Porsche 911 GT3 is a super-fast version of the regular 911 sports car. It's built for people who love racing and want a car that can go really fast on a track.
Car
Porsche 911 GT3 RS
The Porsche 911 GT3 RS is like the ultimate version of the GT3, made for racing fans who want the best performance. It’s lighter and faster, making it perfect for driving on racetracks.
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Hey guys, welcome to this very special TFL car chat because I've got Case and Case.
What else do we got?
We've got all kinds of American muscle, so of all the episodes for me to be taking
Tommy's seat to talk about mostly Corvettes.
This is the one that I'm happy to be on.
Yeah, if you're listening to this on your favorite podcast platform, we are standing
in front of $220,000 worth of American sports slash muscle slash sporty cars, I guess?
V8s and 1V10 that we'll talk about as well.
Although it's funny, the majority of that $220,000 is in one car specifically.
And even if you combine all these cars, it's still less than a modern 911.
Yeah, but we do have some pretty affordable muscle in here.
We've also got the newest, most cutting edge that you can get.
So we're really going to talk about a pretty broad range of some awesome cars, really some
of our favorite cars we've ever owned.
Yeah, this is really a Corvette special because we have owned pretty much every Corvette
except for the C1 and the C2.
And if you're listening to this, I am standing next to the 1968 C3 and we're going to
go through and walk it and show you everything around it and show you all the cool
features.
Next to it is the C4 Corvette, but this one special isn't the case.
It's not any C4, it's the ZR1.
So arguably I would argue the top of the food chain because the Grand Sport was also
really cool.
So there's maybe a debate to be had there, but the ZR1 was the most expensive of the
C4s.
So very impressive.
And then behind it, we have the natural competitor to the C4 ZR1.
And by the way, the four, if you guys are new to Corvette, just means fourth generation.
So C is Corvette and four is fourth generation.
But this would have competed directly with the ZR1 and what is this?
It's a 1994 Dodge Viper and as much of a Corvette guy as I am, I will admit this
is one of, if not my single favorite vehicle the company has owned since I've been
here for the last six years.
Yeah, this is the quintessential American muscle car, all attitude and all crap interior.
But we'll get to that in a second.
And then finally we have our newest purchase, which we just traded in for our 2020 Chevy
C8, the eighth generation Corvette.
And this is the new 2025 C8 Z06.
And this is a much different beast.
Actually, there's one bit of interesting information that the ZR1 and the Z06 share
over all the decades.
And that is case that there has not been an overhead cam Corvette since the ZR1,
since you until you get to the Z06.
Yeah, so this C4 ZR1 was pretty revolutionary being a dual overhead
cam V8 that we'll talk about because this is a very interesting engine.
So it's pretty cool.
We get to look at the progression of these cars over quite a broad range of time.
Like you said, we haven't had a C1 and a C2.
We also haven't had a C7.
But we've owned more generations of Corvettes than ones that we haven't had.
Yeah, we've had a C5, we've had a C6.
Of course, like I said, I went on the launch of the C7.
So I'm very familiar with that.
And now we have what I think is the ultimate, the most balanced of the
current new Corvettes, which is the Z06.
Of course, there's a ZR1 and a ZR1X and an E-Rate.
But I think this is the one you want and we'll get to that.
But let's start with not the C1, not the C2, because I got a tight case.
I don't know a lot about those two cars.
I have sat in the C1 and I don't fit.
Yeah, which is a bit of a problem.
It's very upright.
And of course, C stands for Corvette and Corvette stands for, well,
it's a type of military boat.
And that's how the Corvette was named, a class of military boat, the Corvettes.
A lot of the C1s as they were getting the car going weren't
necessarily hot rods when the car first started out.
And then of course, the C2 is an absolutely beautiful car,
but it's not mechanically sophisticated.
I wouldn't say the split window is gorgeous.
Yeah. Oh, 63.
Yeah. Stunning.
One of the best looking cars on the road period.
This C3 is a really nice combination because you can find some pretty
affordable C3s out there.
This one we got for around about 20,000, but you can find,
especially later model C3s for even less because these cars went from
what, 68 all the way to 82.
So it was a long production run and the car changed a lot over that time.
This being a first year, I actually like it a little better
because it's got the classic chrome bumpers.
That's what they're known for.
These are called the chrome bumper cars.
And in this video slash podcast, we're also going to start all of them up.
So it's really interesting.
And then at the end, we should start all of them up.
At the same time.
At the same time.
Yeah. How many gallons of fuel per minute do you think that would be a lot?
But let's go back to this.
So I've got a hot take on the C3.
This is my favorite of all the Corvettes from a style perspective.
Now, a lot of people would disagree with that, but I love the classic
big, haunches, Coke bottle shape.
This is just a classic American muscle slash sports car, depending
on how you want to look at it.
And we were lucky enough to get the first year or maybe unlucky enough.
There's a story that car and driver tells about this car.
So when I think it was car and driver, when Chevy built this car,
they delivered it to car and driver for review.
A week later, car and driver gave it back and said, give it to us when it's done.
Yeah, which was a harsh, but possibly fair critique because there are some strange things
like the door handle set up on this car.
So on later C3 Corvettes, that's all you do.
Push that down and that pops open the door on this car.
You've got to push this additional little lever.
So there's kind of two levers built into the door and it's a slightly strange
operation. I've got to say, we'll show the other strange thing.
We'll show the windshield wipers.
Yeah, the windshield wipers are at least strange in a cool way.
Yeah. So this is the only.
This is the only year of the C3 where the windshield wipers actually
completely retract behind this little cow and will show you will demonstrate.
It's it's a bit of give and take.
This one is kind of a cool feature.
I might have to get the ignition on.
By the way, let's start up and let's listen to it.
And then let's see if we can show them the wipers.
So getting into this car is a good way to to tear or dislocate your hip flexor
if you're not prepared for it.
Look, as much as I would like to think I am, I'm not actually that massive of a dude.
You're not. My my legs could be bigger.
And look at look at the issue with sliding my leg under the steering wheel.
You know why that is?
First of all, that is the smaller steering wheel.
So the previous owner actually put on a smaller one.
Don't start it up yet.
So imagine if you had the full size one.
But this is the complete bean can of Corvette, a C3.
So there is only one option on this car and you could have gotten an option
where that steering wheel actually tilted up so you can get in.
Which would have been lovely, which would have been lovely.
But the only option we got and this is also, you know,
how like Corvette guys like to talk about like this is one of that's
yellow and you know, this is only one of 200 C368 Corvettes
with a three speed manual, which is not necessarily an option that you want.
No, you're not the four speed manual.
It was not a particularly expensive upgrade to get a four speed.
This instead is a three speed.
So genuinely a pretty rarely seen feature,
although not a desirable rare feature.
This might be a one of one in terms of bean can Corvette.
So the only option this came with the only it didn't even have no power
steering, no AC. There's there's no if you look over there,
there were like little pockets on the front where you could like have.
They didn't have a glove box,
but there was like a little pocket there to hold things that that is a crazy thing.
We don't even have the pocket, but what we do have is a convertible top.
So one option, one option only because the three speed was the base.
Yeah, the three speed manual, I should say, but we do have the convertible.
So this car came with one option as a convertible.
So start up and listen to it. Sounds glorious.
Tell you what, even a base car, it's still got a V8 Roman.
Yeah, now that is a Chevy 350 V8, the way God intended.
OK, now watch the way the wipers work.
Yeah, so check this out.
It's really cool when you flip the wiper on a panel moves out of the way.
The wipers come up from behind the hood.
So it's a really neat operation and it cleans up the front end of the car a little bit.
And then do it again.
I want to show him something cold.
Come over here and show him the way the mechanism works.
It's really cool when you watch it from this side,
you'll see the mechanism and how it moves the wipers beneath the wiper.
You see that little spinny arm?
Is that how cool is that?
Which is a tough thing for podcast listeners.
But I'd say if you're just listening, it's worth looking up a video of how these wipers work.
It is a very neat thing.
And those are vacuum operated, I believe, which means that they usually don't work.
So find a car with working ones.
You want to pop the hood while you're down there?
Yeah.
And we can show him what's under the hood.
So of course, this came with a 350 and the big block was a 427, which we don't have.
Well, and even some cars that had 454s, this one's a 327 and they're claiming on the air cleaner,
at least 300 horsepower.
That would have been 300 gross horsepower.
Yes.
So if you were to put this on a dyno to the rear wheels, it would be not 300.
I want to say like in front of you Corvette, hardcore Corvette enthusiasts, you'll know this,
but I want to say like in the early 70s Chevy actually started not doing gross horsepower
about wheel horsepower.
And that's of course, when the horsepower went down significantly.
Now, the C3 generation is unique in that it really is split into two parts.
Pre, let's call it 73 and post 73.
Or in other words, the chrome bumper cars versus the...
The urethane bumper, the older cars.
Yeah, look dramatically different also as emissions came into play.
Yes.
The powertrains were pretty different.
And you said the magic word emissions.
Basically, you get into the malaise era of the 70s.
So what happened?
And I was a young lad at this point.
The OPEC nations had a boycott and we started rationing fuel in America.
And that led to us also rationing horsepower eventually.
And so cars became choked with emissions equipment.
Yeah.
And they also became much slower.
And that happened about 73 or 74.
And those cars are dirt cheap.
You want to show them the headlights?
Yeah.
What they still had, even in that era, were some fantastic pop-up headlights,
which I might need to flip the key on again for.
Which I don't want to do if I'm not making sure it's not going to go flying at coal.
Oh, come on.
Come on.
Now you can start.
All right.
Pop the headlights.
Look at that.
Oh, they were coming up.
Zee.
There they go.
Oh, yeah.
Pop-up headlights.
One of them is a little bit of a lazy eye.
Yeah.
It comes up slower than the other.
And goes down slower.
And goes down slower.
They must be vacuum operated, same thing.
But it's still very cool.
Very cool.
I agree with you that I really do think the shape and the design of this car
is among the best, not only of Corvettes of all time,
but of just cars, period.
Yeah.
The Coke bottle shape is incredible.
And interestingly, value-wise, the chrome bumper cars are a lot more valuable
than the urethane bumper cars.
Which makes sense.
So this car we bought for $22,000.
If this were a urethane bumper, let's say if this was a $75,000 or even an anniversary,
those cars are between $5,000 and $20,000 all day long.
Yeah.
And more likely, they're like a $10,000 car.
And honestly, as much as I prefer these earlier C3s in their styling,
for $10,000, you can't knock it.
Yes.
That's potentially a very fun car for the money.
Yeah, it is.
And since we bought that car, we need to say goodbye to some of these.
So if you guys are interested.
Are you selling the C3?
Yeah.
This is news to me.
Yeah.
I'm ready to move this on because I think we've done about everything we
can do with it right now.
Fair enough.
I think it's time for it to go.
So if you're interested, shoot us an email at infoattflcar.
And I haven't decided on the price yet, but we did pay $22,000 for it.
I think it's worth in the mid-20 range.
It's a driver.
It's mechanically sorted.
But it's one of those 20-foot cars where it looks good from 20 feet away,
but the paint job is not grand.
This was an original Colorado car that sat for a long time.
Yeah.
I think it sat from like 92 until now, where it was taken out of the barn.
It was repainted.
I don't know why they did it yellow, but they did.
This is originally this beautiful rust copper red color, which I would have
liked better.
Yeah.
But it is what it is.
Somebody kind of did a yellow paint job on it.
The other thing that's unique about these, I think this is the last year
of real fiberglass.
Yeah.
When we get to the C4, people think that those are fiberglass,
but they actually composite.
But I think this was still fiberglass.
Yeah.
And speaking of fiberglass vehicles, this driving it to me has as much
in common in the driving experience with a criss-craft as it does with
later Corvettes like the C4.
Well, tell me about that.
What's it like to drive?
Yeah.
Since the seating position is not necessarily friendly to taller
bigger guys, the steering wheel is right in your lap.
Yeah.
I have a hard time shifting it because the steering wheel is right in my
lap and I can't lift my foot.
Well, yeah.
Because I can't lift my leg to actually shift it.
It's hard.
The ergonomics of it are ridiculous.
Also, where you sit in the car, it's true of the majority of these
vehicles that we're talking about today, but you are right in
front of the rear wheels.
So it's something to get used to.
There's a lot of hood, a lot of front end in front of you.
So your seating position is kind of weird.
And that's the fun part, isn't it?
It's seen that long, like hood.
Yeah.
And I love the tail of this car too.
Look at the back of this.
There's two exhausts popping out the back.
Those four iconic round Corvette headlights, right?
Yeah.
It's stunning.
This is just a really good design.
It looks like one of our exhausts is going off a little bit sideways.
Yeah, which could be factory original.
No in the way that, again, these cars were constructed.
No shade being thrown at the car either because we absolutely
love these.
I love Corvettes as much as anybody out there.
And this is just a rockin' good time.
But you've got to appreciate it also for what it is.
Yeah.
And ironically, these Corvettes became known as old man cars,
cars that you would take to the golf club with your buddies
to go golfing.
Where do you put your golf clubs in this?
Yeah, especially being a convertible.
You're a little out of luck.
One thing I do love about a lot of Corvettes, though,
is the fuel fill in the center here.
Yeah, it's cool.
At times it could be a little bit stressful because you've
got to walk the hose all the way over your bodywork to
what this means you could pull up to a pump on either side,
which I actually like a lot.
So the only storage in this car is the space behind the,
right back here, behind the seats.
So I guess you could perhaps, that's where the
battery lives too.
Yeah.
You could perhaps squeeze, I guess, a set of golf clubs
back there if you had to.
Or if you were by yourself, I guess you could squeeze
them in the passenger compartment.
Yeah.
But that's about it.
I do like the little plaque on the Corvette that
tells you the way the gears go.
I think that's kind of cool.
And all those kind of old school dials and gauges feel,
not only retro, but feel really cool.
Yeah.
The shape of the dash on a C3 Corvette feels very cockpit-like.
It's angled backward.
The gauges are deep set into that dash.
So it's got a very unique appearance.
I think you could pick it out of a lineup of any other
dash on any other car.
You wouldn't mistake a C3 Corvette dash for anything.
Yeah.
And there's just some classic design features like the
shark gills on the side.
Yeah.
You know, you'll see those carried over into the C4.
Unfortunately, they didn't carry the Coke bottle shape.
And what size are these tires?
Because we're going to be talking about tires in a second
because we're going to get extremely wide.
Yeah.
Well, we're going to get wider.
We're also going to get much bigger in diameter.
Yeah.
So these are 15-inch wheels.
And my rear tire here is a 225.
A 225.
15.
Wow.
So not an especially wide tire.
Can you show it from behind?
Because that's really where you can see how wide that tire is.
And so it's not all that wide.
No.
It doesn't look out of place on a C3 because C3 is an older car
and that's more of a period correct tire size.
But as we kind of transition onward,
let's just look at a comparison between the width of a C3
rear tire and the width of especially our C4 ZR1,
which is wider than a base C4.
This is a 315.
315.
This is a 17.
How big is it?
Yeah.
These are 17-inch wheels on a C4 ZR1 315.
Even my base C4 that I used to have,
as I owned it, not necessarily the factory tire size,
maybe 10 millimeters wider,
but I believe mine was a 285.
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So let's transition to the next generation.
Like I said, you lost the Coke bottle shape.
This became composite instead of fiberglass.
And it turned into a little bit more of a wedge car,
but I actually like.
I know I'm kind of, for the most part, alone in this,
especially like you listen to Doug DeMiro's podcast
or something, they as well as most people
don't like C4s.
I love C4s.
This is crazy enough.
I've owned a C4, and this is my favorite
generation of Corvette.
So feel free to make fun of me.
Well, it's certainly, I mean,
you take a magnificent step toward modernity
when you go from the C3 to the C4.
You could consider this a modern sports car.
Yeah.
This was kind of a tweener between the C2, right?
Which is still pretty old school,
whereas this is very modern.
I think one of the biggest things to the C4's credit
that you can't get really from looking at pictures
and necessarily watching videos of them
is how much more modern to your point
and how much better this car drives
than a C3.
This is so much more modern.
This feels like a car, and this is a car
that in this day and age, you could stick on a track,
you could put sticky rubber on it.
Even if you have a base C4 Corvette,
you can massage the engine a little bit
and make it a fun and pretty competitive track day car.
Now, one of the great things about the C401
that we have here is I think it's,
some people, you know, the youngsters would say
it's been slept on.
I would say the market has undervalued this car
because this was kind of Chevy's moonshot at the time.
So it had just a lot of cutting edge technology.
Like I said, first overhead cam.
And this is something that most people don't know
before we get to the powertrain,
which is really cool.
This car was, I think, also three inches wider.
And this is where the problem came in
than a regular C4.
Now, your C4 was how much when you bought it?
You had a black one.
You bought a black one in good shape,
less than 50,000 miles for 10,000.
So we paid 30,000.
And I think you get a hell of a lot more car.
You do.
Yeah.
Four, you know, basically $20,000 more.
Now, the way you can tell a ZR1 from a regular C4
is two ways.
First, the little chimsel up there, right?
The little third brake light.
That stays up there because the car,
like I said, what GM did basically was
they didn't just widen the car.
They cut the car in half.
So they did the engineering.
Not like he just made the body work wider.
You actually cut the car in half and they added
three inches of width to the whole car.
And then the other way you can tell is
a ZR1's have this flag surround because
obviously this is where you can tell the three inches, right?
This is where the license plate
would normally be tucked up against a rear backup light.
Yeah.
But one of the issues that this car had
is it was significantly more expensive,
whereas a base C4 Corvette like mine
back in the day would have been around $30,000.
I think this would have been more like $50,000.
No, no, no, no.
You are way off.
So the original buyer of this car
paid well over sticker.
Oh yeah, but at least if I can find the sticker.
The sticker on this car, if I remember,
oh shoot, where is the...
Is it the glove box up top?
Yeah, but I think it's in the back.
It's in here.
Here it is.
I kept all the paperwork.
So we're showing the ergonomics of reaching
into the back of the C4 Corvette right now.
Yeah, we've got the sticker.
We've got a lot of documents on this car.
This one's fully documented.
So keep in mind the original owner
paid $10,000 over the sticker price.
But look at the sticker.
$60,000.
Yeah.
So and he paid, I think,
we've got the bill of sale here.
I think I want to say he paid like $70,000
for this car.
So this is a crazy thing.
Standard vehicle price,
about $32,000 here in 1990.
ZR1 Special Performance Package
an additional $27,000.
And this one has a few extras.
But wow.
Look how much he paid.
He paid $80,000.
$80,000.
Oh, no.
He paid $20,000.
Well, look.
He paid $20,000.
So yeah, $20,000 over the sticker.
Which in 1990.
He paid $85,000 for this one.
$80,000 in 1990.
Yeah.
Is a shocking amount.
By today's money, that's like $10,000.
And the other issue, yeah, right.
And the other issue with that
is that this car,
at a glance, it doesn't,
even though it is that much wider,
like you said,
and they put so much effort into that,
this car doesn't look that different
from a standard C4 Corvette.
I mean, how much would it cost
to actually cut a car in half
the long way and then widen it?
I mean, think about the engineering
to do that.
The amount of money,
engineering and development
that went into this engine.
So here's another myth
that people get wrong.
We'll show you guys,
we'll start off and show you
the cool headlights,
because I think it's the only
generation of Corvette where
the lights actually do like a 180.
They come up.
They don't go up like this.
So the C3 lights just pop straight up.
These ones do a little flip.
They spin around.
It's really cool.
So people think that,
and this is true,
that this engine was engineered by Lotus.
And so the misconception
is that basically GM
panned out the engineering of it
to Lotus,
and so then it was basically
a British design.
Except people forget that
at that time GM owned Lotus.
So if you own the company
that's doing the four-camp,
32-valve powertrain,
then it's really GM doing it.
And then, of course,
this is also all aluminum
versus an iron block.
And GM, at that time,
didn't have a lot of experience
with building all aluminum powertrains.
And so what they did
was they went to Mercury Marine.
And they had them manufactured,
especially because it was
a smaller volume engine.
And they were better equipped for that.
And GM made this a big challenge,
unnecessarily so for Lotus,
because if I remember right,
I think they wanted the same
bore spacing as a regular 5.7 small block Chevy,
which was just kind of
an unnecessary design limitation,
if you ask me.
So when Lotus first came out,
the bore spacing was a little different.
Yeah.
And GM said, no.
And then they had to redo
the entire engine at a cost
of probably tens of millions
to get the exact same bore spacing
as the traditional...
So they made it very difficult.
But 375 horsepower on these early cars,
later on, like 405 horsepower.
This one, 370 pound-feet of torque.
So for its day, a very potent engine.
With the key.
Why don't you show them that while we're at it?
Show them the key,
because that's the cool part.
This is the one before
the red key came along
in the Hellcats.
Yeah.
So this is a neat little party trick.
You have this additional key
that lives in the dash
and it's got two settings,
normal and full.
So if you stick this
in the full power mode,
that's how you get,
at least on this car,
the full 375 horsepower once again
on some later ZR1s, 405.
And these ZR1s in 1990
had this updated interior
that a lot of people
like more than early C4 Corvette interiors.
I don't think this one
is as retro and fun,
looking as early C4 Corvette interiors.
But it's maybe,
you could argue, better executed.
Well, let's do this.
Here, you start it up.
And I'll get the exhaust note
and you can show them
the instrument cluster.
Yeah.
I've got this key in my pocket.
This car,
we might need to do a little
top end work on,
because it does blow some oil.
And a little belt squeal.
But,
the other funny thing
about this car
is that
for this being a halo
car,
an insane performance vehicle,
they really didn't make it very loud.
No, it's not that loud.
It's super quiet.
What they did,
at least in this version,
is they made it very uncomfortable
and that's why you're sitting in it.
Because my big American ass
will not fit in between those two bolsters.
There are several different seats
you could get in C4 Corvettes.
This is one that
I think they paid extra for.
It was a more aggressive seat.
It does have some pretty tight bolsters.
And, yeah, I agree.
Even as narrow as I am.
And to show them that little switch
below the gear shift lever
and between the armrest right there,
this is one of the first versions
of basically ride control.
So you can change the way the vehicle rides.
And what are the different options?
Tour, sport, and performance,
which is cool.
Because that means when it's time
to replace your shocks,
you can spend more money.
Yeah, because they're more expensive.
But you'll see that also in the Z06.
The other thing that's,
I think, really cool about it
is that, of course,
most Corvettes come as either
Targas or convertibles.
And this one particularly
has both the glass roof
which we have on.
And then we'll show the back end
in a second.
It's also got the regular roof.
Yeah, so I can make eye contact
with you through a transparent roof,
which you can't do in every car.
And you can remove this panel.
So even though this isn't
a traditional convertible,
like you said, it's more like a Targa.
So you can pull the top off
and still have it be
like a convertible,
which I think is really neat.
Now, let me close
the hood real quick
so we can show the wonderful headlights.
Before you do that,
let me talk about another.
You remember we were talking about
ergonomic issues with the C3?
Well, this one has a horrible
ergonomic issue,
and that is the sill size.
Oh, it's not that bad.
What they did,
it's like four inches, dude.
You just fall into it.
It's fine.
Look at that sill.
What they did was they wanted
to have incredible structural rigidity.
And because it is a Targa,
to get that,
they put all that rigidity in this.
No, it's like a six inch sill.
And it succeeded.
This car, very stiff.
Very stiff.
Good handling.
Very hard to get any out of.
These stills, totally worth it.
It's easier than your BMW i8.
You got to admit.
That's a low bar.
That is a low bar.
All right.
You want to show them the lights?
Yeah, we got to show the pop-up lights.
Show them the pop-up lights.
Yeah, they're cool.
This on a lot of C4 Corvettes,
if you're ever shopping around
for a C4 Corvette
and you look at one
and both of the lights
pop up exactly how they're supposed to,
then you're probably looking
at one in decent shape.
Yeah.
It is far from impossible
for these to fail.
Like on my C4,
those lights originally,
they came with plastic gears.
Whose idea that was.
You can replace them with brass gears,
which is good and you should do.
But it's such a fun operation
with these headlights.
So with this car,
it is our 9-11,
which we're also selling by the way.
The 87, 9-11,
we're also selling that.
We just bought a whole bunch.
We bought this.
We bought a Bentley
and we bought a Defender.
So we're selling a lot of cars
to help pay for those.
But that one was my problem child previously
because the convertible didn't work.
This is our new problem child
because first gear,
the synchro, I think is...
Yeah.
And I think the engine's got some issues.
Yeah, we brought this over to a buddy of ours
that does a lot of dyno tuning.
So we actually ran this
on the dyno
as well as the Viper
and had him go through it
because he owns a ZR1.
He had even another ZR1 before that one.
So he's definitely pretty well-versed
in these cars
and he feels like this one
throughout its life
has been driven pretty hard.
Yeah, how many miles in it?
That's like...
I'll say something.
It's not a lot.
No, not that many miles,
but in those amount of miles,
it seems like this car
lived a rough life.
Or somebody did a lot of hard starts.
Yeah.
So we're going to try to put this back.
We might have to swap out the transmission,
which isn't going to be cheap.
Also, another thing that I'm looking at it is,
you see this right there?
Yeah.
So that is a little cutout
because these are actually very rare.
So if you're looking at a C40 R1,
finding one with an original windshield
is very hard
and you know that
because you've got this cutout right there.
And what GM did at that time
is they put this film on the windshield,
which helped with the solar radiation.
But at that time
was a big deal,
was of course speeding
and getting speeding tickets.
And because of this film,
radio detectors would not function.
So GM cut out a little section of the film
where you could place your radio detector
and actually have it function
so that if you were driving a little more spirited
than the law would allow,
you could have a fuzz buster.
And back then they were fuzz busters
that would function.
Yeah.
And these windshields are cool,
but they're also like you said,
very expensive
because there's not that many of them out there.
Yeah, they don't make them anymore.
They sell for quite a bit of money.
And this is especially scary
because we live in Colorado.
If this windshield were to get cracked.
We couldn't replace it
or it would be very expensive to replace.
Yeah, that would be.
At least with the original cutout.
You could replace it.
Excuse the bummer.
Yeah.
And so I think this car is worth
hopefully putting some money into
because it does have...
Well, let's show them the back.
Let's pop it.
It does have both tops.
It does have the original windshield.
Now on my...
It is low mileage.
C4, yeah.
There we go.
That's the same.
Nope.
Oh.
Did not quite do it.
No, try again.
Yeah, there we go.
It just doesn't have...
So in this one you could obviously...
Oh, it's got the bad struts.
Of course it does.
It does have enough room
for golf clubs
and we do also have the hard top
which slots in
like kind of unlike the 06.
Exactly.
So you can actually latch
the hard top here in the trunk,
which is cool.
There's a place to store it
if you want to pop it off,
which I like.
And once again,
center mounted gas cap,
which is pretty cool.
Yeah, exactly.
So you can fill up on either side.
I love that.
Now before we move into
the modern era...
We're going to have to jump over
to the natural competitor.
But let me finish up on this car.
So in case you guys are wondering
because, you know,
we like to bring you along
on these journeys.
Like I said,
like we do everybody
who is expert at these.
When you put it on the dyno,
what was it putting out?
I think people would be curious
about it.
Yeah, so I can't remember
the exact number.
It was in the 300s.
So the dyno is measuring
wheel horsepower,
not crank horsepower.
And this,
you would expect to be in
maybe the,
well, I don't know,
10, 15%, whatever,
drivetrain loss
for 375 horsepower.
You would expect it to be...
Like 320, 325.
Yeah, maybe even
a little higher than that.
Yeah.
And we were,
if I remember right,
around 300.
So it didn't,
on the dyno,
seemed like this car
was necessarily underperforming,
but then getting out,
it out on the streets,
compared to Jordan's
ZR1 he felt like
on the road,
it wasn't performing as well.
So the plan with this car is
hopefully we'll sell the yellow one
and help finance the repairs
on this car.
So, I mean,
the first gear synchro
is just driving me crazy.
Yeah.
Don't like every time
you put it in first gear,
if you don't double clutch,
you get that.
Yeah.
So we want to get that sorted
and we want to get the engine back
to where it should be.
Otherwise, the car is in great shape.
Yeah, especially cosmetically.
Cosmetically, it's fantastic,
which I think is
as important as anything
because paint,
especially original paint,
is tough.
Doing some maintenance
on the drive line,
to me,
that's not a huge deal.
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And this year
we also purchased
this car,
which would have been
the natural competitor
to the zero one
back in the 90s.
And of course,
this is the first generation
Dodge Viper.
And this was a vehicle
that was basically
meant as an,
I don't know,
competitor homage,
whatever you want to call it
to the Cobra.
So Bob Lutz did this
when he was at Chrysler.
And this is about as raw
as you can get.
I mean, back in the day,
this was known as
a widow maker
because there are
no driver aids.
If you want an analog car,
this is it.
No airbags,
no traction control,
no ABS,
nothing.
It's just you
and an eight liter
V10 with 400 horsepower,
460 pound feet of torque.
So even this car
being over 30 years old,
it still feels quick.
And it puts down
some decent quarter mile times.
Even here,
a mile above sea level,
we've gone under 14 seconds
in the quarter mile,
which is not that far off
of the times that these
were putting down
when they were brand new
at sea level
on a prepped surface.
So this is a beast.
And when we put this
on the dyno,
this exceeded,
kind of well exceeded
what we were expecting it
to put down.
So this is a great example
because the two are
very diametrically opposed.
So this was
GM's moonshot
in terms of technology, right?
The Corvette, yeah.
The Corvette, the 01 Corvette.
I mean, like I said,
there was not an overhead
cam Corvette until
the 06 came along.
That's how many years.
Yeah.
40 years, right?
No overhead cam Corvette.
This, on the other hand,
is the exact opposite.
So there's also a myth
that we needed this fall.
You want to pop the hood
and show them how that's done?
Yeah.
So it's an interesting process
because you start out
at the very front
of the Viper.
So not that I recommend
doing this,
but technically,
if you walk up to any
first gen Viper,
you can pop the hood.
Also, the doors don't
have door locks,
so that helps.
But there's also
a second latch.
Yeah, yeah.
So you initially
do the latch.
And then you've got to
come over here
and you need two people
because this hood is
one of the biggest hoods
in the automotive business.
And then it opens up
like this.
And of course,
that is what the Viper
is known for.
Is it a
how many liters?
Six?
Eight.
Eight liters.
That's right.
Eight liter V10.
Yeah, it's a big one.
And it's a beast.
The funny thing
about this engine
is that a lot of people,
especially on the internet,
say they don't think
this car sounds good.
I've got to say
in person
at the driver's seat
when you ring it out,
it's not bad.
Yeah, I think it
sounds really cool.
Yeah, so the issue there
is it doesn't have
a cross pipe.
And so we're hearing
only five of the cylinders
because of course
the exhaust comes out
the side.
It doesn't like
five cylinders.
Yeah, and what you're
hearing is only half
of the firing order,
basically.
And so people assume
and this is the
biggest myth of the Viper
that this is a
truck engine.
Because of course,
now at that time
it was Ram.
I mean Dodge now
you build truck engines.
Yeah.
But the story behind it
is exactly the opposite.
So when this car
was developed once again
Chrysler at the time
didn't have expertise
in building aluminum
powertrains.
And they wanted,
basically they wanted
what the Corvette had.
They wanted this
very advanced
dynamic 10 cylinder.
And at that time
they owned Lamborghini.
Yeah.
So they actually
went to Lamborghini
which had been
building 12 cylinders forever.
Yeah.
And they said,
can you design a 10 cylinder
and can you make it
an overhead cam
and of course
being Chrysler about halfway
through the process
they ran out of money.
Yeah.
And so instead of
getting this very
sophisticated engine
they got a push rod V10.
Yeah.
So it still shares
there's a lot of similarities
between the design
of this V10
and the V10s
that you would find
in similar era.
Right.
Because this
eventually became
a truck engine.
So this came first
and then eventually
they incorporated
the design of this
into a truck engine
but the truck engine
was an iron block.
Oh yeah.
No.
So this.
It's massively different.
Yeah.
So this is what the
truck engine was based on
but this is not a
truck engine.
This was designed
by Lamborghini
for this car
as a Viber engine.
This is also
not a Lamborghini V10
because Lamborghini's
V10s are very different.
They're not push rod motors.
Exactly.
But this being a
push rod engine
they are actually
pretty durable
and I gotta say
I love about this car
you can be
very rough with it.
You can launch it
it's tough.
The driveline of this car
is very tough.
I mean you said it.
Durable.
These are almost unbreakable.
They're about as reliable
as any sports car ever made.
And since we're talking
about how they sound
I might as well go ahead
and fire it up.
Fire it up.
I'm gonna preface
that there's a check valve
on the
in the fuel system on these
that
fails.
is a pretty common issue.
So it might take
a little bit of cranking
but when it starts up
it's great.
Oh, not bad.
Oh, wait, wait, wait.
Oh, one more.
It's got it.
Yeah, now that is
that is music to my ears
as the cliche goes Pace.
I love that.
Now, if you're
at all concerned
we did let these cars
warm up before starting
this podcast.
Yes, yes, don't worry.
We drove them here.
They're not,
they're not cold
as we're starting them up
and revving them.
But one of the funny things
about these vehicles
are these exhaust pipes.
There's a little caution,
a warning here on the door jam
that tells you
be careful
because the exhaust gets
very hot.
You can very easily
burn yourself.
Generally here at work
we always wear pants.
So it's not
as much of an issue
but you can get
a little round tattoo
off that exhaust pipe
if you were to
like, you know,
back of your leg
up into it.
Which is easy to do
because this,
you were talking about
the ZR-1 sill.
Look at that.
It's not as tall
but it's wide.
It's wide.
Yeah.
Now the thing about
Vipers is of course
there's three generations.
Well, there's five
but really two of them
are kind of mid-generation.
Yeah.
So the mid-generation
the G,
this first generation,
the mid-gen refresh
it brought out the exhaust
out the back.
Yeah.
I like the side pipes.
I think the side pipes
are cooler.
Now the craziest thing
about this car of course
was that it was meant
to, like I said,
compete with the original
Cobra which, you know,
Shelby did, right?
Or at least
have a similar
philosophy to it.
Yeah.
And the interior
is,
if you're being kind
it's the most
basic interior
of any vehicle
that I've ever owned
or we've ever owned.
It's hilarious.
There are
essentially exposed
basically wood screws
holding the dash together
and it does not age well.
The
our glove box,
for example,
a lot of this finish
on the plastic
is scraped off
and you would think,
wow, this car's pretty old.
It's also got,
what, 18 or so
thousand miles.
So that
happens in
that short of a time.
It's just not
an interior that
holds up well.
Look at the steering wheel
too.
It looks like it's out
of an arcade game.
Yeah.
There's certainly no
airbag there to
you know,
your driving performance.
I gotta say,
if you're buying a
Viper because you want
a nice interior,
probably buying it.
Look elsewhere.
Yeah, look elsewhere.
This is all about
the driving experience.
Once again,
if you think the C3's
analog,
this is
this is beyond analog.
Because this
this car was
really designed,
it was
initially designed
not even to have
a top.
So this top was
kind of an afterthought
and you can tell
by the way it sits
it looks like a baseball cap.
It looks like a
hat turned backwards
because
the gap at the back
is
ridiculous.
I love
one of Tommy's
things that we talked about
when
comparing this car
to the C4
ZR1
was
if you want
cup holders,
get a Corvette.
You want a roof,
get a Corvette.
Now also the back window
comes out
and luckily we bought this
for $40,000
from a used
police officer
and he had all
the bells and whistles.
So we have
the soft top,
we have the soft windows,
we have the hard windows
that just slot in.
The problem is
once you put the windows in
you can lock yourself
out very easily
because there's
no door handles.
Yeah, so there's
no exterior door handles.
Generally,
you just reach in
and grab the door handle
on the inside
of the door.
But if you do have
the windows in
what you can do
is you can
double press the key fob
and it pops the door out
but as we were
finding this morning
it doesn't
necessarily work
that well.
So we just had to take
the windows out
because once again
you don't want to
lock yourself out.
The other thing
that this did not come with
which is the money
that we did put into it
let's show them on the other side
because it's a little nice
on the other side.
Don't look over here.
We did
find the original
wheels for it.
This one had
the next generation
chrome wheels.
It was like that
more than any time.
Maybe even a later
wheel than that.
Yeah, where they
were chrome
and I just
hate that
generation of wheels.
So these were
Chrysler wheels
and
this is what the car
would look like
when it came out of the
factory.
And you'll notice
the wheels
and the whole
rest of the car
are very dirty
which may bother you
but ultimately
all of these vehicles
these are not
museum pieces
they're not
show cars.
These are drivers
we drive them
go long distances
we take them
drag racing
so that we can
make videos for people
to watch
because there are
plenty of these sitting
in museums
of these
kind of throwing
star style wheels
but they are very
correct to the car
and to the era
in an iconic part
of the original design.
And of course
the tire size is crazy.
Yeah.
Here on the rear
it's a 335
on a 17 inch wheel
which is an
insanely difficult
tire to find.
Yeah and show them
coming back again
because that's
where you get the real
view.
Yeah there are
very few companies
that make these
tires.
Michelin is one of them
and they sent us
these tires
this car
so thank you Michelin
because you can't get them
any other way.
Which we also really
appreciate because
like you said
these have
a reputation for
being dangerous
for being
poorly made
like we said
and all of these
things that we're
laughing about
with the interior
and everything is
not to the detriment
of this car
because it all adds
to the experience
and the lore
and the history of it
but it is so nice
having fresh rubber
on this car
because we drag
race it a lot
bad combo.
So I have to say
I've driven it a lot
it likes
drag racing
it likes
it likes cruising
Have you tried
cornering it?
I haven't
I haven't tried cornering it
very hard
because of its reputation
but it doesn't scare me
I just drive it straight
I've taken it
around a corner
I had pretty good speed
but I think the
Widowmaker
was probably
in its time
a fair assessment
of the car
but yesterday
I drove a Rivian
with a thousand horsepower
in today's modern world
where we're
seeing cars
in excess of
not just a thousand
but fifteen hundred
maybe even two thousand
horsepower
this doesn't seem
as frightening as it did
back in the nineties
Genuinely a straight line
this is to your point
a very friendly car
you can launch it hard
you can wrang it out
you can go as fast
as you want
in a straight line
no problem there
what
to my understanding
gives this
a lot of that
Widowmaker
reputation
that's still true of it
is if you exceed
traction
around a corner
it's not like
you've got a
nice little window
that you can
operate in
step out the back end
and keep it under control
it sounds like
if you're cornering this
hard
and it goes
it goes
it's gone
yeah I was talking to
somebody who actually
tracks them
and they said
what ends up happening is
you know
it goes right
let's say on a track
and the back end
starts to go
typically what happens
with these
is you correct
and then it pendulates
back the other way
and that's where you lose it
so it goes one way
you correct
and then it goes
exactly the other way
and then you're done
and this not being in my car
I don't want to find out
I don't want to find that out
because this car
does have to pay for itself
like you said
one of the reasons
we're selling that car
we're kind of done with it
we've done as many videos
as we can
and so it's time
for it to move on
and we're not going to
make any money
crashing that
no
we're not that
kind of channel
we're going to Minnesota
in 2027
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100 years of showstopping moves
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this game is once in a century
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at Motor Center
on January 24th
go to HarlemGlobetrotters.com
for your tickets
to the 100 year tour
now we're missing
we're missing two cars here
yeah that's true
three cars
we're missing a C5, C6 and a C7
now we've owned the C5 and the C6
I think the C5
is an awesome hot rod
platform for making a fast car
for not that much money
C6 is a great two
especially 0-1s and 0-6s
in the C6
are way badass
we had a base model C6
it's still a fun
quick car
with an aftermarket exhaust
which sounded well
but the one rub against
probably starting with
actually that one
is the interiors
were always a little plastic
they weren't quite world class
yeah the C7 is not too bad
the C7 got much better
but let's talk about this
when you get to this car
of course the biggest difference
you know this case
is that the engine moved
from the front
for the first time
I was going to say back
but it's really middle
it means there's no manual
what's going on
the only automatic car here
yeah the C7 was
the last manual
even though I did not
love that 7 speed
in the C7
same thing with the 911
7 speed
I always found that 7th gear
to be extraneous
I don't know why
we went with 7
but that's a whole
another story
but let's talk about
you know a car
that now is world class
because there are actually
what five cars
in the current
C5 lineup
so there's the base
Stingray
yep
and that starts
at about 70,000
and if you go to the
3LT
you get up to about
100,000
yeah there's the e-ray
there's an e-ray
which has the same power train
as the base car
but it has an electric motor
in the front
yeah so it makes some more power
it's one of the quicker
accelerating
yeah because it's the only one
that's all wheel drive
yep
and then I think you've got
the one that is
the most track worthy
the sweet spot
and that is the Z06
so with this car
this one was
138,000
but because everybody
wants a ZR1
dealers start discounting them
and these
this was discounted
by 8,000
so it was 130
so we actually traded in
our C8
which was a 3LT
got 65,000 for it
and then we got a substantial
discount on this car
yeah
and so that's why we decided
to do it
because we wanted to experience
what I think
is the sweet spot
and the best
Corvette of them all
and there's a big difference
between the e-ray
and the Stingray
to the Z06
ZR1
and ZR1X
now the ZR1X
of course
ZR1 has twin turbos
on this engine
the ZR1X
you get up to 1200
because then you get
the electric all-wheel drive
yeah
so the ZR1X
kind of throws in everything
in the kitchen sink
which is cool
but to your point
I actually think
for most people
this would
the Z06
would probably be the more
fun car
to have
because already
670 horsepower
460 pound-feet of torque
this is a
this is a fast car
yeah this is an incredibly
fast car
we've just drag-raced it once
we're going to do
a lot more drag racing
with it now
it's sort of kind of broken in
and of course
this being a Corvette
it is also
incredibly practical
so not only do you have
room behind the engine
yeah I wouldn't use it
to move
you know to your next
house
or anything
but
I got my camera bag
in the back here
and there's still some more space
and then you can also
put it in the roof
it's a Targa
so it also slots in here
so there is room for it
and then
you also have
actually a pretty deep
front
trunk
which
you know is surprisingly
yeah
yeah so
you lose that in the
ZR1
that becomes basically
a giant
fan
to cool off the engine
I like that they've got
a little button
in here
for you to escape
just in case somebody
sticks you
unwillingly in the front
of their C8 Corvette
do you know Jill
she's a manila
yeah
automotive journalist
she's like 5
maybe 4, 9, 4, 10
I don't know
sorry Jill
but she always jumps
in the back
sitting here
and then pops
something you've pondered
that's what she does
Nathan used to do it
that was his stick right
Nathan would not
fit in the front of the C8
no like half of Nathan
would not fit in there
yeah I think that's
that's a little
ambitious potentially
but Jill started doing it
so I'm just
I'm just mentioning the fact
that she might
now the styling of this
has been somewhat controversial
obviously it's
jet fighter inspired
yeah
some people say it's
overwrought
they think that there's
too many sharp angles
too many lines
intersecting in too many
surfaces
I kind of like it
and difference of course
between the base
Corvette
Stingray
and the Z06
is that it's wider
yeah much wider
noticeably so
which makes it
a better looking car
I think it's a much better
looking car
it's got a better stance
also our base C8 Corvette
that we had
2020 so the year
that that car
came out
the base
Corvette
had exhaust
in the corners
this one has
the four
pipes in the center
which also looks
and then
a pretty massive
345
width
tire
21 inch wheel
in front
20 inch wheel in the front
yeah 345
that's a lot of power
well you gotta get
you know
600 and
70 horsepower
down
and I have to be
you know
completely fair
I have not driven
the ZR1
or the ZR1X
but I do have a rule
that like
600 horsepower
in a road going car
is about as much
as you want
I worry
that
there's a lot of people
say there's no such thing as
you know
there's no replacement
for displacement
there's no such thing
as too much horsepower
1000 horsepower
going to the rear wheels
it might be too much
case
yeah well so
like we have said
many times
and many other people
have said it's
more fun to drive
a slow car
fast in a fast car
slow
this is not a slow car
I don't
in the
world of diminishing
returns
I'm not sure
how much more
fun you have
with a
06
because it's just that
less
often that you can
actually
lean into the pedal
so
I think that this is
about as aggressive
as a car you're going to
drive on the street
needs to be
and then some
you figure
a ZR1's going to cost
at least 200k
so like I said
this was 130
after discount
that's $70,000 more
if you can get one
I've heard of dealers
now charging
$100,000 over sticker
on the ZR1s
these were going
at 30,000
over sticker initially
I think
2023 was the first year
for the 06
so this is now
we're three years
into it
and
because everybody
wanted the ZR1
the 06
has became affordable
so that's why we thought
let's jump on it
while we can do it
now you'll note that
this does not have
the giant spoiler
so we don't have
the track package
in this car
which I'm actually
happy about
because it has a lot
more aerodynamic
I'm not a big
aero guy
so I think this
looks better
it's slightly
more subtle
it's not subtle
but it's more subtle
and there was also
a stop sale that went on
for a long time
because what would happen
is these would burn
the ground
the reason for that
is these have
these giant
coolers
coolers right there
behind the doors
in the base
Corvette
the Stingray
when you stopped
it the fans would
turn off
and the 06
0100
the fans stay on
and when you're
fueling the car
right here
what could have happened
you could get fuel
into that
vapors yeah
vapors
and that would get
into the engine compartment
which would ignite
and burn the car down
and so there was like
a three month
stop sale on these
were GM engineer
to fix so that
because the fan stays on
even when you turn
the engine off
it doesn't
necessarily suck the air
and burn down the car
you want to show
the interior
I think this is
world class
the Europeans don't
think so
but they're a little
snooty
yeah I think
there you go
you're going to want this
fine interior
this has the old interior
so some people
don't like that waterfall
switches I love it
I just
I love real buttons
so what they did
for 2026
is they got rid of that
waterfall
they gave you bigger
cup holders
and then over here
they put a third screen
right there
so a lot of that
is on an extra screen
I love those buttons
I'm a big fan
I think
that they are
very distinctive
I can
understand how
some people
think it's intuitive
because there's a lot
going on right here
but it's a very
driver centric interior
definitely
I don't think it's at all
a bad interior
we've got
as square
of a square
steering wheel
as
square gets
these carbon paddles
for the 8 speed
carbon fiber up here
yeah
and that's also
different
from the 06 now
three drive modes
so you have
tour
sport
and track
and then
of course
we've got
a very different engine
being a flat
plain crank
so this is more
let's compare
let's say
this is more of a Ferrari
than a
Corvette
at least in the way it sounds
you want to start up
and listen to it
yeah yeah let's do it
it's limiting my revs
yeah it does that
yeah we got it
I jumped like
three feet
when you started it
it's a little
it's a little
it's a little
it's a little
it's a little
it's a little
it's a little
it's a little
it's a little
it's a little
it's a little
like Lamborghini obnoxious
when it does that
the start up tells you
everything that you need to know
you know yeah
and it does that
every single time
the first time I started
this car
I looked down at my
big boots and I thought
did I
did it was a part of my boot
up against
the throttle pedal
that's just how it cranks up
every single time
yeah it's a little obnoxious
it is but it's
it's cool because
this 06
genuinely has such a different
character and personality
to it
than the base C8 Corvette
it's so different
they feel like two different cars
they are exact
they are two different cars
the base one which we own
until we got this one
that is much more
traditional Corvette
if you want to call it
an old man car
it's much more relaxed
you kind of cruise down the road
the engine is turning
over at a much lower RPM
yeah torquey 6.2
versus this very high strung 5.5
yeah this car is like
let's go let's go
I'm gonna go on and go
the steering is much sharper
on this car as well
it kind of tends to follow
grooves which is not great
but this is definitely a car
that wants to be exercised
and not a car that necessarily
you just want to kind of
take a nice day
take the top down
and kind of go
for a leisurely ice cream
this is let's go to the track
let's go on the Autobahn
and ironically
the base Corvette
actually has a higher
top end than this one
so I think I want to say
the top end on this one
is like 190
or 95
whereas on the base one
it's like 205
so if you're going to get
an Autobahn cruiser
and you want to go 205
get the base sting rate
not that I'm sure anyone's
really going to take advantage of that
but even though this car
is so much more expensive
than the other older cars
that we've talked about so far
as far as performance is concerned
this is still not a bad deal
as well
ZR1, ZR1X
it's a lot of car
for the money
I mean you know
you could compare
let's say you compare this
to like a GT
not a GT RS
but a 911
GT3 right?
yeah
this car at $130,000
is probably
$200,000 less than the GT3
and forget about the GT3 RS
it's not to say that this has
everything going for it
that a 911 does
I think it does
I'm going to go there
I'm going to say it's got
everything that a 911 does
I think there's some
refinements
some engineering
some build quality things
that's what the Europeans
would say
but you know
we've owned a 911
the last current one
911 Targa S
and this car to me
that was $158,000
and that was before prices
went through the roof today
that'd be a $200,000 car
this car to me
is just
of course the Targa
is the heaviest
and the least sporty
of all of the 911s
but still
to me this car
is much more fun
and much more
we've certainly
come a long way
from the C3
and the C4
so the build quality
and the interior materials
fit and finish
refinement
on a brand new Corvette
is not going to be as different
as it was
in those days
yes
maybe not
as noticeably so
but yeah
I mean the 911
still got a lot going for it
I still think those are
fantastic cars
not that I get to spend
a ton of time
I'm not just a 911
the issue I had with ours
and the reason we
ended up selling it
was which is stupid
because we should have
held on to it
because prices of 911s
have gone through the roof
right now
the reason we got rid of
it is I just didn't
have any $60,000
of company money in it
when it wasn't
making any more money
so it was time for it
to move on
and the same thing will
happen with this
you can put all these
three together
and still you don't
get to this
and from a content
point of view
that's more interesting
but these are
epic cars
even for the money
even this being
much more expensive
than the others
like we said
and if you want
to get a base
C8 Corvette
you can find some
pretty solid deals
on those
yeah
and that's a lot of
car for $60,000
you know even like
a 2LT right now
that's a lot of car
and I think
part of that problem
is because there is
this mystique behind
the Ferrari
and behind the 911
that the Corvette
is always considered
and has been considered
I think like
the old man car
or the every man car
whatever you want to call it
but I think with
this C8 Corvette
has taken the next step
where you could go
and you could put
this head to head
against a Ferrari
or a 911
and not be ashamed
to show up with this
you know
feel like you've got a vehicle
that is world class
versus something
that is you know
American plastic
the way that the Europeans
would describe it
but what they've maintained
throughout all the generations
and even in their competitor
that is the Viper
is that you can have
a lot of fun
for whatever amount of money
whatever price bracket
you might be shopping
around for
whether it's
$10,000
or $200,000
these are so much fun
all these cars
a lot of muscle
each one of them
is like an American flag
on wheels
well the one that I would
think is a bargain
is the first generation
Viper
so Viper's are weird
the older they are
the cheaper they are
if you got
the last generation
ACR
the one that was
yeah
yeah it was ACR right
those are now
like $300,000 cars
yeah
which seems
crazy to me
but the first generation
you know
yeah and
10 cylinders
8 liters
$40,000
maybe a little bit more now
that is a lot of car
I think you can say
say the same thing
about the ZR1
yeah
just a lot of car
for $30,000
and if you want
you know
a Corvette that isn't
in that Malaysia
73 to 80
whatever it is too
then those early Corvettes
are also a hoot
yeah
I think you're
exactly the right case
you nailed it
and by the way
case
let's show
what we're wearing here
yeah absolutely
we've got our
TFL Studios hoodies on
even Andre's
wearing one today
and I'm going to be doing
a podcast with him later
we didn't call each other
no we did not
it's not coordinated
but if you're looking
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we're selling those
at our merch store
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or a cup
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and get yourself one
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and we promise
we'll put
that money
into some silly sports car
or truck
that's going to happen
immediately
of all of these vehicles though
this first gen Viper
even
up against the 06
this is
the most
the biggest experience
this is the one
that sticks with you
the most
yeah I think
you know
I mean
a giveaway is that
three of these cars
are managerial
one isn't
yeah
and you know
if you want something
and I think people
are longing for that
now with
how cars have become
autonomy
cars have become toasters
let's put it
let's be honest about it
and these are
as far away from a toaster
as you can get
yeah and especially
some of these older
analog vehicles
I like a lot
and I would say
the ZR1 is definitely
a better car
than the Viper
but the Viper is
more of a fun car
oh yeah
100%
way more of an experience
so if you start them all up
we promise to
sure
which one
here I've got a lot
of the keys
I'll start
that's a C8
we'll do the slas
Viper
let's do it in order
yeah
we'll start with the C3
yeah
start with the C3
I'll let you do the work
yeah
the C3
being it
as old as it is
and as cold
as it is today
has been
a little temperamental
a little grumpy
but
since it's got some
look at that
now it's warmed up
yeah
since it's got some
temp in it
no problems
alright
let's go next
oh it sounds awesome
the C4
had a much easier time
this morning
cranking up
very quiet car
it is
I don't think we're going to
hear it among
the competition
yeah
except for the belt
yeah
we do hear that
it's a little smoky
yeah a little bit
a little bit
do you want the Viper next
or the
the Viper
yeah let's see the Viper
let's see if
we don't have enough
people to rev them
so
we're just going to have
to idle them
if it
cranks up
any easier
I bet you it'll start
up
right away
maybe I was wrong
there you go
oh no
oh
oh come on Viper
yeah the Viper is not
quiet huh
alright
last one
finally
I'll stand in the middle here
you can hear the glory
the aggressive Z06
ha ha
yeah
and that
is the noisiest end
to a podcast
we've ever filmed
yeah
and as always guys
head over to all TFL
for all of our videos
and cakes
this is a lot of fun
we'll see you next time
yeah we'll see you next time
ciao
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About this episode
A deep dive into the Chevrolet Corvette's legacy, this episode explores three generations: the C3, C4 ZR1, and C8 Z06. The hosts share personal anecdotes and insights about each model's design, performance, and quirks, while also comparing them to the Dodge Viper. They discuss the evolution of the Corvette from a classic muscle car to a modern sports car, highlighting its unique features and the ongoing debate about its status in the automotive world. The episode is packed with engaging stories and technical details, making it a rich listening experience for car enthusiasts.
Original notes
( https://www.alltfl.com/ ) Check out our new spot to find ALL our content, from news to videos and our podcasts! In this episode of TFL Car Chat, Roman and Kase get hands-on with what they believe are the three best Corvettes you can buy today: the C3, C4, and C8. They break down what makes each generation special, the quirks and charm that set them apart, and why these eras of Corvette ownership deliver some of the best bang-for-your-buck thrills on the market.
Of course, they can’t resist slipping in one wild card — a Dodge Viper cameo that shakes up the conversation with raw, old-school chaos.
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