Episode 102: Auld Lang Cynicism
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Car
Volkswagen GTI
The Volkswagen GTI is a popular sporty car that combines good performance with everyday usability. It's a fun car to drive and is well-liked by car enthusiasts.
Car
Porsche 911
The Porsche 911 is a famous sports car that many people recognize. It's known for being fast and fun to drive, with a unique design that stands out.
Brand
Nissan
Nissan is a car company from Japan that makes many types of vehicles, including cars and SUVs. They are also known for electric cars like the Nissan Leaf.
Car
Ford Escape
The Ford Escape is a small SUV that many people use for family trips and daily driving. It's known for being affordable and practical, making it a common choice for many buyers.
Term
CUV
CUV means Crossover Utility Vehicle. It's a type of vehicle that is like a mix between a car and an SUV, usually with more space and a higher seat, making it easier to get in and out.
Term
Ford Escort
The Ford Escort is a small car that was popular for many years because it was affordable and good for families. It was known for being reliable and easy to drive.
Car
Ford Taurus
The Ford Taurus is a large car that can fit a lot of people and their belongings, making it a good choice for families. It's been around for a long time and is often mentioned because it's a classic example of a comfortable and reliable car.
Car
Ford Bronco
The Bronco is an SUV made by Ford that is great for off-roading. It's known for its tough design and ability to handle rough terrains.
Car
Ford Mustang
Car
Ford Broncos Sport
The Ford Bronco Sport is a smaller SUV that is good for both off-road adventures and everyday driving. It has a sturdy design and is built on the same base as another vehicle called the Ford Escape.
Car
Toyota Corolla
The Toyota Corolla is a small car that's very popular because it's dependable and gets good gas mileage. Many people use it for daily driving.
Term
commuter gas prices
Commuter gas prices are the prices you pay for gas when you drive to work or school. These prices can change a lot depending on where you live and how much gas costs.
Car
Volkswagen Id
Car
Volkswagen Bus
The Volkswagen ID. Buzz is a new electric version of the classic VW bus. It's designed to be eco-friendly and has a retro look that many people find appealing.
Term
electric vehicle (EV)
An electric vehicle, or EV, is a car that uses electricity to run instead of gas. They are better for the environment and can save money on fuel.
Term
Edsel
Edsel was a car brand made by Ford that didn't sell well and is often seen as a big failure in car history. People use it as an example when talking about other product failures.
Term
premium EVs
Premium EVs are expensive electric cars that offer luxury features and high performance. They are aimed at buyers who want both an eco-friendly vehicle and a high-quality driving experience.
Car
Tesla Semi
The Tesla Semi is a big truck that runs on electricity instead of gasoline, which makes it cheaper to drive and better for the environment. It's designed to help businesses move goods more efficiently and is part of Tesla's push to create more electric vehicles.
Brand
Lexus
Lexus is a brand of luxury cars made by Toyota. They are known for being comfortable and reliable.
Car
Subaru BRZ
The Subaru BRZ is a sporty two-door car that is fun to drive and has a rear-wheel-drive setup, which means the back wheels provide the power. It's designed for people who enjoy driving.
Term
Nakamichi tape deck
A Nakamichi tape deck is a type of cassette player that plays music from tapes. It's famous for being really good at making music sound great, especially back in the day when cassette tapes were popular.
Car
Zeekr
Zeekr is a brand that makes electric cars in China. They focus on high-quality features and modern technology, trying to appeal to buyers looking for electric vehicles.
Brand
Polestar
Polestar is a company that makes electric cars, focusing on performance and style. They are part of Volvo and are known for their sleek designs.
Car
Dodge Road Runner
The Dodge Road Runner is a fast and powerful car that was popular a long time ago, known for being fun to drive. It's famous for its cool looks and speed, making it a favorite among car enthusiasts.
Brand
Stellantis
Stellantis is a big car company that makes many different brands of cars, like Chrysler and Jeep. It was created when two companies combined.
Car
Ram TRX
The Ram TRX is a powerful truck made for off-roading. It has a strong engine and is built to handle tough terrains.
Car
Dodge Pacifica
The Dodge Pacifica is a type of minivan designed for families. It has lots of space inside for passengers and cargo, and it includes features that make driving easier and safer.
Car
Chrysler Pacifica
The Chrysler Pacifica is a type of family car called a minivan, which is designed to carry lots of people and their stuff comfortably. It's popular because it has a lot of space inside and comes with cool features that make driving easier and more enjoyable.
Brand
Audi
Audi is a luxury car brand from Germany that makes high-end vehicles with lots of features. They are known for their stylish designs and advanced technology.
Brand
Bentley
Bentley is a very expensive car brand from England that makes luxury cars. They are known for their high-quality materials and powerful engines.
Car
Aston Martin Valkyrie
The Aston Martin Valkyrie is a super-fast car made for racing. It has a powerful engine and is built to be very light, which helps it go really fast on the track.
LIVE
It's a holiday, man. It's New Year's Day. You're supposed to just wake up, watch the fucking parade, watch the bowl games, watch the Rose Bowl.
I didn't watch the Rose Bowl. Indiana beat Alabama by a ton, like 34-3.
In the Rose Bowl?
Yeah. The University of Indiana has not won a bowl since 1991.
Wow.
I'm shifted.
It's just like the most ridiculous corporate deposit. Like just reading the list of them was so comical.
Yeah.
Because they're just like, it's a thousand companies that you've never heard of or just like absurd, you know, like parallel universe.
Like it feels like a fucking pension novel or something.
Yeah.
It's like, wait, how is this real? You guys are like really doing this? And yeah, it's just, it's so weird to me.
I think the one that seems to be getting a lot of attention is the Pop Tarts Bowl because they...
See, at least that's a product that I know.
Yeah, I've heard of Pop Tarts. But they have like life-size Pop Tart people, you know, like mascot Pop Tarts.
Yeah.
And then they toast themselves at the end.
Nice.
They put themselves in a giant toaster.
Yeah.
And then they lay down and the teams like rip them apart and eat them while they're still alive.
It's great.
It's really good.
Incredible. Actually, I would watch that. I'm pro Pop Tart Bowl.
It's been pretty, yeah, it's been pretty well-received.
I think like in an era of very cynical, sad corporate sponsorships at the balls, the Pop Tart one seems to be liked now.
Yeah, like a little element of performance art and some sort of like vaguely sort of new, like...
It's a new pagan style traditions to add on to all the old guys bonking into each other stuff.
So it's fun.
Who won the Pop Tart Bowl?
I don't know. I don't even know who played in it.
Go to my head, I couldn't tell you.
Is it like Division III schools?
No, it's a real bowl.
Oh, you know what? Notre Dame got in and they turned it down.
Is it one that like used to be like the cotton bowl or the sugar bowl?
Like one that used to be like a really major one or the orange bowl or whatever and now it's just the Pop Tart Bowl.
Let me look. It was BYU and Georgia Tech and BYU won.
See, those are...
Let's see Pop Tart's bowl.
It was originally commissioned as the Sunshine Classic.
It has undergone many name changes.
Let's see.
You don't say.
I mean, it hasn't always been the Pop Tart Bowl.
Since 2020, the bowl has been sponsored by Kellogg's,
through its Cheez-It and Pop Tart brands.
There we go.
Where does it happen?
Joe Ravi Stadium in Miami Gardens, Florida, yeah, Orlando.
Yeah, well, there we go.
It was the Sunshine Classic working title.
Blockbuster Bowl, CarQuest Bowl, Micron PC Bowl, MicronPC.com Bowl.
Micron, nice.
Visit Florida Tangerine Bowl, Mazda Tangerine Bowl, Champs Sports Bowl, Russell Athletic Bowl, Camping World Bowl, Cheez-It Bowl,
and now it's Pop Tart Bowl.
Cheez-It Bowl.
Cheez-It Bowl was like a food group for me.
That's like, you just dump them in there and you just zone out.
You just forget they're there while you're eating all of them.
That's rock solid.
I would not change my branding away from Cheez-It Bowl.
That's evocative.
That's a good day.
I don't know, man.
I got to go Pop Tart.
If we're going Pop Tarts versus Cheez-It's.
Yeah?
I'm going Pop Tarts.
All right.
Duly noted.
Oh yeah, Pop Tarts are great.
You ever had the cinnamon ones?
Do you like a cinnamon one?
I like the s'mores ones.
We've been over this.
We talked about flavor of Pop Tarts you would keep in your car console in the mail bag episode.
I've had them in my car console.
Yeah.
That was a tour thing.
That was like a thing that I would do on tour early on tour is I would buy some Pop Tarts,
usually at a truck stop or gas station or something.
Sometimes just at a convenience store and I would stash them away.
I would put them in one of these up above cabinet spots but I would stick them way in the back.
It would be a secret spot that nobody would find them and even I would forget about them.
The idea would be that at some point in the tour there would be a night where at like three in the morning and you're kind of not quite ready to retire.
The festivities are going on.
You're watching some dumb movies.
You're kind of chemically altered or whatever and it's like it would be good right now.
It's like what snacks do we have?
Do we have any good snacks?
And then you remember and it's just like, oh, you know, and then it's like, and then you get up and everybody looks like, what is he getting?
What is he getting?
And then you fucking go over there and you reach, you know, it's like you remember, it's like, oh, the light bulb goes off.
That moment, that was always like a very magical moment and you pull out the thing of Pop Tarts and everybody just goes, oh, and you just go, yeah.
It's fucking Pop Tarts.
The Pop Tart Bowl this year, the trophy was a working toaster and you could put Pop Tarts into the ball and push a button and they heat up.
I just sent you a video.
Hell yeah.
Astounding.
Practical trophy.
That's good.
I like that.
That could be the new wave trophy that does stuff.
It keeps the hardware somewhere.
You may as well have something that works.
Yeah, that's nice.
What's the name of the pod?
The Pop Tart Bowl.
The Tired brought to you by.
God, I wish.
Is it Kellogg's Pop Tarts?
No, it's Tired, the podcast, the car podcast for people who understand that cars are bad.
With your friends, Rory and Maddie and Peter coming to you from 2026.
I hope everybody had a fucking great, hope everybody's new year is off to a super killer start.
Yeah, Happy Cuban Liberation Day to all who celebrate.
Everyone who's cool.
It is the day they ran Batista fucking out of there.
See ya.
Wait.
Later, Bozo.
Na, na, na.
Yeah.
Na, na, na, na.
Hey.
Where'd Rory go?
Rory's picking up.
Oh, let's go.
My man's got the stuff.
Let's see it.
Yeah.
Rory's holding up a life magazine with my man Fidello on the cover.
Let's go.
January 19th, 1959.
That's good shit, man.
Pretty cool.
Hell yeah.
There's some really fun kind of candidates in here of like Camillo, Cienfuegos standing
on a portrait of Mrs. Batista as he phones from the Presidential Palace just occupied
by his men here.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Foot planted.
It's pretty good.
Yeah.
Yep.
The general is in.
Got to make some phone calls.
Ring ring.
It's great.
It's like when you sneak into somebody's house and you just like start making long distance
calls.
Yeah.
Break into their office in the radio station perhaps.
Yeah.
See, you can't do that in a revolution anymore.
No.
Everyone's got a cell phone.
Right.
Yeah.
The vibes aren't as good.
The landline.
I mean, the vibes are not as good for sure.
Well, you can use their IP.
There you go.
You get on their...
That's true.
Their IP address.
You can download a bunch of movies on their TV.
Yeah.
You break in.
You start torrenting from their computer.
Exactly.
You start pirating.
Pirating stuff.
I'm going to break into the...
Start torrenting all of heated rivalry right now out of my way.
What are we doing today?
We're doing talking about the year in review, the hopes for the new year.
What do we got?
Yeah.
I thought it would be fun just to talk about some...
I guess really you're supposed to do this before the new year starts.
Kind of like...
Whatever.
We busy.
But yeah, we didn't get to it.
So how about guard podcast?
We're grinding.
Right.
We make our own rules.
Yeah.
That's right.
Right.
Really, I think it would have been wrong to do a 2025 in review show while 2025 was still
happening because you don't know what's going to fucking happen.
A lot of things can happen suddenly.
You know?
We saw...
Who did we see ringing in the New Year's last night?
There were some...
I was going to ask.
Yeah.
I mean, you watched the ball drop.
Did they have any fun performances or celebrity appearances?
They had...
Ryan Seacrest was the host.
I noticed that.
Diana Ross did a medley.
Diana Ross.
She was great.
Who was 89, I think.
Wow.
Is that right?
81.
81.
But looks pristine.
Of course, yeah.
The Goo Goo Dolls were on.
Were they?
Oh, I missed that part.
I love them.
Yep.
Very unexpected, I would say.
You know, the height of their power.
Wow.
And then...
Let's see who else was on there.
Mariah Carey.
Pitbull, Lil Jon.
Pitbull!
Rick Springfield.
I got to say, both Rick Springfield...
I mean, he's at least, like, old.
Yeah.
Like really, you know, like kind of just classic of another era kind of guy.
But it's, I feel like he would, at least at one point, like, was kind of a guy who would be on something like that.
The Goo Goo Dolls, I do not understand at all.
Like, that's a fucking band from Buffalo who had, like, one hit.
They had a couple.
There was Slide, there was Iris, they had that song on the Treasure Planet soundtrack.
Okay, I missed all of these.
Four Nine Blonds, 50 Cent.
A name was also a good one.
Okay, Four Nine Blonds, for that, that's good.
Wyclef Buster Rams, T.I., who was his partner, say.
T.I. in for a while.
No way!
I didn't know that.
Yeah.
The Summer End is really good friends with Mike.
And...
That's T.I.
A bunch of people I don't know.
Oh, the girls from Demon Hunter, K-Pop, Demon Hunter.
Oh, I saw them on the, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I saw them pop up.
Yeah, and then Chapel Roan and Post Malone.
I guess those were probably the headliners.
Chance the Rapper.
I finally found a list.
Nice.
Why am I, we call it, has suddenly gotten way better.
But yeah, it was nice.
Had some steaks, had some crab.
Wow.
Yeah, it was a good time.
Nice.
Very depressing today, though.
Today is a very depressing thing.
I don't know.
Well, not...
Surprise.
You guys aren't going to believe this.
Not having a fun day, but yeah, it was like especially.
Although I did accomplish one of my goals, which is the three-car garage that sits across
from the house is the garage door openers are so old in there that you can't get a
remote for them.
No one makes a remote for them anymore.
Can't even find a new old stock remote.
So the system that we've been doing is opening the garage, the third garage bay door where
the kids keep all their toys, walking around and then walking all the way to the other
end of the garage pushing the button to open the door.
But today I installed a button just on the wall outside.
So it's a doorbell button that you just push from outside to open the door.
Just throw the wall through the front of the thing.
So yeah, I feel like we're...
I accomplished something big today.
It's not like...
You still have to get out of the car to open the garage door, which is kind of a pain in
the ass, but it's slightly less of a pain in the ass and 100% more janky and embarrassing.
But it's fine.
I don't care.
It's a little work.
I don't think it's more janky.
It's less work.
It's a quality of life improvement.
I think it's like 50% better.
Not 100% better, but it was nice.
Well, the GTI has been living in there, but it's entrance and will be a little bit easier.
Still haven't worked on the 911.
I still have the two parts.
I guess that maybe that's it.
Are we doing resolutions or are we doing reviews?
I was going to say, do we remember what our resolutions were last year?
Automotive resolutions?
I'll edit them in later, but for us not remembering.
I don't know what they were.
I don't know what we said.
I didn't really listen to the episode.
I should have.
I'm sorry.
So the resolution is to call the guy.
Okay.
That's pretty good.
And also, yeah, and I guess the other resolution is one way or another.
I think 2025 is the year that the SPG gets out of the driveway.
It's just...
I'll either get all the cars running this year or sell them.
Nice.
So all cars must run and drive this year.
I like that.
My list is from where the pod more.
I need to hit the books more, get better at audio stuff.
There's some things that I still need to really nail down that I don't feel as confident about.
It's good.
Never.
No.
I think it's fine.
I'm gonna be.
I'm pretty sure that I resolved to do something about the sob, which I haven't done.
I think I resolved also to...
I think I resolved to just clear out my whole car situation, which I didn't do any of those
things.
Some things were resolved in ways that...
Well, for instance, I think one of my resolutions was to get the sob wagon, which I'm still
technically on the hook for because New York thinks that I still own that car.
Right.
And so they won't let me uninsure it.
Right.
If I take it off the insurance, I'm still paying insurance on it, which is...
I mean, it's just like a few hundred bucks a year, but any amount of money...
I mean, it's just that's money that I'm fucking literally fleshing down the toilet that I don't
have anyway, and come to find out that that guy is out of business too.
Right.
So it's like, I'm not seeing that fucking car again.
So I just...
I need to call or just go to the DMV and just say, look, I don't have this car.
I don't have the fucking plates.
If you want to track this guy down, I'll report this car is fucking stolen because it basically
was, but I'm not paying...
I'm not fucking sending Geico any more money.
It's like, take my ass to jail, motherfuckers.
It's like, confiscate my driver's license.
I'll fuck it.
It's like, fuck you.
Was my resolution to get all the cars running?
I think it was.
I believe so.
That sounds true.
Wait.
Oh, the Jeep didn't run, but everything else ran.
There you go.
That's pretty good.
Not driving, but...
Starts up?
Yeah.
Running.
Yeah.
That's good.
Yeah.
That's success.
Per blue sky, my resolution was to promo the pod harder and support whatever my co-hosts
were doing.
I would say you kept to those resolutions.
I don't know if you want to support everything we're doing.
Yeah.
I mean, it's kind of a big commitment ahead of time before you even know what we're really
up to.
That's fine.
I'm all in.
All right.
Good.
You know me.
I'm getting crazy.
I feel good.
That's four out of five.
I would say maybe this year to actually drive the cars would be the resolution.
I like that.
I'm trying to think what the...
I guess the Jeep would be the tough one.
Although I feel like, I don't know, now that it's Dan just turning, I think we're there.
Didn't...
Yeah.
I would say another resolution, maybe either take the sailboat out this year, which I did
not do this year or saw it because if it's just going to sit in the barn, we shouldn't
have it.
Somebody else should be sailing around.
All right.
We're doing resolutions or review?
Yeah.
We're doing resolutions.
I think we've done resolutions.
I mean, I don't have any resolutions for this year.
I have resolved to not make any resolutions.
No promises.
No promises.
I believe he made one joking commitment on Tumblr, which was to get worse, which I liked.
Yeah.
Now, one of my favorite people just reblogged and just posted, in 2026, I will get worse.
I saw that was...
It's like, here, here.
Cheers.
I second that.
Yeah, I can get down with that.
Me and Victoria, we're saying we're both going to get weirder this year on Blue Sky.
And my other resolution is I will simply repeat mine from last year, which is I'm going to
prone with a pod more and do more stuff for the pod and keep yapping about whatever my
co-hosts are doing.
Yeah, that's what I got.
That's my goals.
I like that.
That's good work for me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
Review.
What do we got?
What happened this year?
Do you remember anything that happened this year?
20.
I remember a few things.
I was thinking of it in terms of like kind of big picture stuff.
I mean, there's lots of discrete things that happened, but I like to, you know, when you
step back and you're looking at a whole year.
The themes.
And now that we're no longer in it, we can see it in its wholeness.
And I think that I think that in the future that we will see 2025 as, I mean, I think
it's kind of like, I think it was just like as far as cars go, the automotive world, what
we're talking about, what our podcast is supposed to be about.
Ostensibly about.
Exactly.
I think it will be kind of like seen as a bit of a watershed year just because for a
few reasons, I do think that to me, the biggest story is just, it was the year when nobody
could pretend anymore that China just wasn't like just far and away, you know, just leading
the automotive world.
And I don't think that in 2024, that was quite understood or felt in the same way.
And I feel like it's gone from being like kind of a little bit of an outsider.
I mean, at least, you know, in kind of Western circles, being kind of an outsider perspective
to being one that I feel like is generally acknowledged as the case, you know, when you
have like, you know, Jim Farley or whoever, you know, people, I mean, it's just like everybody
from fucking Donald Trump to, you know, automotive, it's just acknowledged.
It's like, oh, yeah, no, they're fucking, they're beating us, they're beating everybody.
You know, it's like the horse is out of the gate and I think that that's a huge thing.
I mean, it's just huge on a historical level, both in terms of the car world, but also it's
kind of what it represents just in the larger world as well.
I think it's just part of a larger seismic shift that's been going on for so long, but
it's just so kind of obvious now.
Yeah, Peter and Kevin Williams have indicated absolutely 100%.
I mean, this is what was the was the show.
It was one of the first shows that we did in in 2025 was where I kind of went down my.
I had like I spent a couple of weeks just like freaking the fuck out because I was like
like watching these videos and reading all this shit about about China.
Yeah, it was actually in between right around the end of the 2024 that you got in there.
So even earlier, right at the end of the year, you were talking about getting in there.
So we were we were pretty early early adopters.
When did when did when did we do the show that was like tired with Chinese characteristics?
That's the one.
That would have been that would have been that was two episodes before New Year's.
Oh wow.
So we were we were.
Yeah, we were we were ahead of the curve there.
Then we had Kevin on.
Yeah.
What were you going to say, Roy?
Oh, for me, it's like the big thing was like the.
In I guess like as part of like a bigger kind of more like global sense of just like giving up on.
Like even the pretense of like the climate stuff and then like giving like.
You know, just kind of like throwing your hands in the air and being like, well, fuck it.
Like what you know, what's going to happen?
It's going to happen.
We have no control, but I think like the the car part of that obviously is like the EV thing,
which is like, you know, I have been on this for since the EV thing started and like it was like,
you know, these commitments don't mean anything.
Like it's just it's just something someone said and like you can you can change your mind at any time.
And like, there's no law that that means you're going to have to.
But I just like I keep going back to like a lot of the conversations that I've had with other journalists over the years and like.
Even like car executives or whatever, like just framing this is like in inevitability.
Like, hey, look, this is happening and like it's underway and there's nothing, you know, like it could happen faster or slower,
but like this is happening and like it was like it always seems so flimsy to me and then it's also like.
Remember the car and driver issue with the black cover?
No.
You don't remember that?
No.
Was it recent?
Yeah.
No, it was like a print.
I mean, this was like several years ago.
I think that I think it was when we were living in I'm picturing the Charlotte house.
But I know it was it was kind of a funny story.
But I mean, it was kind of about that about kind of like the uncertainty and driver black magazine cover.
You're going to have to minus seat covers and car car covers.
The shopping results are everywhere.
All right.
Was it was a current driver?
I'm pretty sure it was current driver.
I'm digging.
Anyway, it was it was just this kind of like, you know, the world is ending.
Or, you know, it's like, are we even going to have, you know, I can't remember if it's like about EVs or autonomy or maybe just all of it, you know.
But it was this kind of like, and God, did they fucking did like Malcolm Gladwell write some shit for that?
Here we go.
That issue too.
I think he did.
Rory, can you type in the chat?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I thought I did.
I thought I put the pop turret thing in there.
I know, but I closed it.
Thank you.
You son of a B.
All right.
Here we go.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Is driving dead.
Okay.
I was picturing it like, like just completely black.
I guess, I guess it has some text on it.
So what year was this?
This would have been 2017 November.
Oh, okay.
That's right.
Yeah.
31 page section edited by Malcolm Gladwell.
Yeah.
He had out of your buddies.
I know.
Yeah.
The, um, it is very funny.
So that was what eight years ago.
Yeah.
Not that imminent.
Uh, but the, but the, uh, it's not what I, it's not what I mean when I say imminent,
but, um, like admitting it to yourself or admitting it to ourselves where it's like,
nah, we're not, you don't even like, we're, we're done.
And it's like the, um, the EV thing has been so interesting and instructive.
It's like that.
I mean, that's like one of the things that I like about cars and like why I keep doing
this is that like, you can learn so much about the world through the behavior of these companies
and like,
Yeah.
It's a great lens.
Yeah.
And it is, um, man, it is, like I said, it's like, I never had any illusions about like
whether, uh, the commitments to EVs were real, whether it was going to do anything.
Like, you know, go ahead and flip the vehicle fleet tomorrow to EVs.
Like it's not, you haven't solved a real problem there.
Like, um, whatever.
We've talked about this stuff a ton, but, um, the just kind of open, like admitting it
is a different thing.
And it's like, if the like less cynical, more liberal minded people who like vote for Joe
Biden because they feel like, you know, maybe he can do some good or whatever.
Like if those people are like fucking silver, like that's a, you know what I mean?
Like whatever.
Like I've had my optimism kind of extinguished in a lot of ways, um, for a long time, but
it's like, um, if it's happening to the normies, that's a different deal.
You know?
Yeah.
It is.
It is.
I mean, I feel like, like, um, I mean, I think part of that was, was a little bit inevitable,
but it also, um, was, was very much hastened by the, uh, the incoming Trump administration
and, um, and just the, just complete fucking chaos just unleashed on, on, on global trade.
And, and especially like in terms of automotive stuff, you know, it's, it's, it's not just
trade, you know, it's like, it's the tariff shit.
It's all the trade shit, but it's also, um, regulatory stuff, you know, like this, this
rolling back of, of, um, of like now cafe stuff and, and, you know, these, these very
longstanding, um, uh, you know, regulatory, uh, kind of institutional rules, um, and regulations
that have governed, uh, the sales of, of cars in the U S and, and con and around the world.
You know, it was like EU standards, the same thing.
And all of that just being like completely upended.
And as we've talked about, you know, added the item, you know, I mean, one, one of the
things with cars is that, um, you know, the, the product development, um, cycles, they're
long, you know, it takes, it takes years to like, to bring a car to market, um, you know,
from, from conception conceptualizing it to designing it to, um, to, you know, putting
together the manufacturing stuff, having all the supply chain in place and then, and
then certifying it and all that.
You know, it's like, you can't just fucking turn this shit around on a dime and, and so,
so automakers are just in this, this kind of pickle where it's like they're, they're
being forced to respond to things, um, to just like an environment that is just in just
complete chaos and turmoil where it's just completely impossible to predict anything to
to, yeah, to predict or plan, um, uh, accordingly for it.
So, so it's just everything is just like this kind of contingency based thing where it's
like the, the best that, that you can do is just kind of try and cover all your bases
and, and a lot of them, I think this, this was also a year where it was, it was exposed,
you know, who had basically just like placed wrong bets, you know, and, and, and who had
kind of hedged wisely.
Um, and, uh, and I think like, like right now you're seeing, you know, a lot of people
in, uh, you know, a lot of companies, manufacturers, uh, in, in pretty deep shit.
Um, and, and facing the consequences of, of, you know, having, having, uh, made the wrong
bet.
Um, and then, and then you see other ones who, who, you know, were taking a little bit more
conservative wait and see approach or, you know, kind of dipping a toe into, you know,
various things, but, but kind of, um, holding back from, from diving in completely who are
now in like pretty good step.
Um, I do think that one of the other, I mean, I feel like these stories are all kind of
interrelated.
Um, um, but another kind of corollary to this, um, is something that I feel like I've just
like really just started hearing people talk about in, in the last few months.
And I've heard, heard you mentioned it, Rory, just kind of been passing, just, just using,
using the phrase to describe Toyota as just like a, um, uh, what is it?
Like a full line manufacturer, like, like the, the con, the idea of, of a car company whose,
whose product line, you know, like, like they make everything, you know, it's got like,
this used to be most car companies, you know, especially the big ones, you know?
I mean, you had, you always had your kind of your, your niche, you know, manufacturers,
but, but big ones, you know, your Ford, your GMs, your, your, uh, you know, Volkswagen's,
uh, Mercedes, uh, uh, Toyotas, uh, Nissan's like, you know, they made everything from,
from entry level bare bones, just transportation stuff up through kind of mid range, um, family
sedans and, and, and, you know, and, you know, SUVs as we got into more recent years.
Um, you know, maybe some like high end luxury stuff at the top, maybe like a sports car
or something kind of, you know, some kind of halo thing.
Um, um, but like increasingly, like that's kind of disappearing.
Like, like those, those companies, and, and, and one thing that that was really striking
to me recently was just like seeing a thing where, where it was just like, I don't know
if it was, if it was Farley at Ford, but, but basically Ford just like, you know, I mean,
when they, when they threw in the towel on the fucking escape, the escape, which is just
like, I mean, that's just like the fucking bread and butter, you know, kind of compact,
you know, CUV, whatever, um, you know, it's basically like the fucking, the Ford escort
of, of now, you know, where, or, or Taurus or whatever, you know, just like the most
kind of mid, mid range entry level, just kind of like affordable family vehicle.
Um, and when they're giving up on that and, and basically, and the quote that I saw was
basically just like, we can't compete with Toyota and, and we're just, we're just going
to make like these, you know, like what, what we do well and what we can make money on are
these kind of like margin higher margin kind of specialist vehicles, you know, things like
a Mustang or like a Bronco, um, you know, like these, these, uh, and, and it's just like,
well, okay, but it's like, you're fucking Ford.
Yeah.
Like the company that fucking defined like a century of the car in the, of the, of the
US automotive industry, which was the biggest in the world, you know, um, and it's like,
and they're just fucking, yeah, fuck it.
We can't do, we can't hang anymore.
We can't do this anymore.
Like I feel like that is a tectonic fucking shift.
They, um, you know, that the argument there, and I think like the, the reasoning, which
I actually think is correct is,
Oh, I think it's, I think it's, yeah.
I mean, the Broncos sport is on the same platform and it's a better margin.
They just, it's a higher priced vehicle.
Oh, wow.
So the manufacturing cost is roughly the same and you just make more money.
So they're just like their bet is we can push everybody who wanted to escape into a Broncos
sport, which I don't think is necessarily true.
We've talked about this before.
Yeah.
Yeah.
About the margin issue.
Um, but I think that's, that's kind of what's driving or like that's, that's really
what's behind that.
Like if they didn't have Broncos sport, escape would still be alive.
And it is interesting too, because it's like, if you're a Ford, that escape is probably
in need of a refresh or a redesign.
And it's like, do you throw all the money into that project when it again, like you have
Broncos sport, that's just like, you know, a better, better margin.
Right.
But, but it's also, it's also just kind of abdicating.
I mean, it's basically just saying, we're not going to make affordable cars anymore.
Like we're just, that's not part of, we'll leave that to somebody else or to the used
car market.
Like, I feel like, like, you know, for younger entry level buyers or just poorer, you know,
I mean, it's, it's, it's kind of this, this movement of just like relegating like new
cars are just no longer for everybody.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It is a, it is a, you know, it'll be interesting to kind of see, because like there's so many
pieces of what would have typically constituted kind of like the American economy that are
just like totally being foreclosed from like, like the house thing has been, this has been
the case for quite a while, you know, 10, 15 years, maybe more.
But the car thing is strange.
And it's like, it is like, you know, these are some pretty, pretty load bearing pieces
of the, like I said, of what used to be the economy.
And it's interesting to think like, you know, it's like, everyone now, it's like, well,
if you're, if you don't have the money, you'll just buy a used car.
And it's like, yeah, but where the fuck do you think you use cars?
There's not a used car factory.
It's like, those are, those are former new cars that are like, you know what I mean?
Like, at some point, someone has to purchase the car.
But it is, it is interesting, because it's like, you know, and there's all the like, the
like little finance stuff, like people financing tortash and stuff.
And like, that's just apocalyptic.
I get my groceries and paying for fucking Klarna.
I'm thinking these grapes on a Klarna.
I was talking about Windows with somebody earlier today about how like, yeah, Windows
11 is bad and they're talking about making it worse actively right now.
But it's like, like, what are you going to do?
Are you going to go buy a Mac, which is your new car, which is your new high
margin new car, you're going to go buy an Apple product.
Are you going to switch to Linux, which is a car you have to fix yourself every day
before you drive it?
Or are you going to stay with Windows 11, which is the car that blinds you and is
doing lane assist and is like having an AI talk to you and tell you that you need to
take a nap and that your steering is wrong and that swarms you off the road in the
other lane.
And like, I'm hanging out on my Windows 10, which is my Toyota Corolla, but it's like,
what are you going to do?
Everything is commuter gas prices now.
You have to just go to the pump and close your eyes.
What are you going to do?
Not get gas?
What are you going to do?
Not pay?
Everything now is either like a subscription or you're getting priced out of an actual
good that you would rather buy and pushed into something that you have to rig yourself
using other people's advice or you're clinging to the thing that still works because they're
trying to sell you something in your remotely and your price point that you hate.
Like, there's no winning.
Like, I'm hanging on to Windows 10 and I'm hanging on to a Corolla.
I don't want to go into the car market right now.
This sucks.
I hate it.
Yeah, it is.
To me, it's interesting to think about how far that goes.
I think consumer electronics, Maddie, the computer thing, some of the things that have
remained somewhat spendy, I could see that becoming a more rich person-oriented thing.
I mean, I think it largely is now, but it used to be able to buy an old desktop or whatever
for 500 bucks or a shitty laptop for 500 bucks or whatever.
Here's the thing.
You buy a shitty laptop now.
What's it come with?
Windows 11.
What can't it run anything?
Because it's running on as much RAM as my desktop and Windows 11 is so bloated that audacity
will freeze.
You try to select five seconds of audio.
Ask me how I know.
You have to get a new laptop with Windows 11 and put Linux on it.
Everyone has to be a shade tree mechanic for their Linux install now because that's where
we're going.
It's horrifying.
I did that for 10 years.
I don't want to go back, but I will.
I'll do it.
On the bright side, Maddie, you can drive your Corolla really forever.
That's true.
That's the longtime stable.
Unlike the computer stuff where it's just gradually website by website, you will no
longer be able to ...
Right.
It's fine.
It's fine.
Things will just cease to function as the system software falls further back into obsolescence.
But the Corolla, man, just keep changing the oil and putting gas in it.
Yeah.
But yeah, I think those are ... The affordability thing is fascinating.
The EV thing did just stepping back.
It is crazy, too.
It's hard to ... I don't know.
We talk on this podcast.
I think we're all fairly well-informed and stay abreast of things or whatever.
But it's like the shock.
I think even more so than 2016, it's so weird because I remember seeing January 6, 2021
or whatever it was and being like, oh, Trump, he's getting re-elected.
If he doesn't go to prison for this, he will be back in the White House.
Yeah.
And then I remember during the shooting, the assassination attempt, quote unquote assassination
attempt, whatever that was 20 years ago-ish or whatever.
But it was like, yeah, I guarantee, okay, this is a lock.
He's coming back.
But there's something that this time around, and I think the car thing is a part of this,
but the speed and the effectiveness this time around of like, okay, we're putting the
Jackboots in the streets.
They would have not been able to pull that off the first time around.
Well, the first time, they didn't have a plan.
I mean, the first time, they did not expect fucking.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, I think they were as surprised as anybody else.
And the far right basically had eight years to fucking consolidate and lay down the groundwork
and get their fucking Project 2025 shit together so that when he did get re-elected
inevitably-
They could let it go.
Yeah, I mean, it's, yeah.
And I don't even know how much of that is just attributable to Trump himself.
I think it's just like, I mean, you know, I mean, yeah, all readily, I mean, when that
I remember talking about it on here with you guys, like, just, you know, I just kind of
thought it was, you know, a lot of, you know-
More of the same coming.
Yeah, people get upset about, not nothing, but I was pretty dismissive of the potential
for a second Trump administration to be anything more than what the first one was,
which was not good, but it definitely, you know-
We're saved a lot by their incompetence.
We can't discount, though, that, like, there were four years where Democrats could have dismantled
a lot of the machinery that's being used right now and didn't and never have, you know, like-
Oh, no, exactly.
That's not their-
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Everyone gets mad and it's like, oh man, they loaded this gun in 2001 and they put it on
a desk and then, like, the Democrats just kept putting bullets in it every time they got
elected and they're like, why is Trump shooting the gun?
It's like, brother, you got in there and you guys kept putting bullets in the gun every
single time.
Why are you mad that he's shooting the gun at you?
Like, it makes me crazy.
Like, all of this, like, post-911 security states machinery stuff that was made and has
never been dismantled by a Democrat in my lifetime, like-
Well, because it's a completely bipartisan project.
Yes!
Yes!
Exactly!
And the idea that there are really, that there's any meaningful difference between
the two parties is completely illusory as well.
So, I mean, it's just-
I know.
It's like, everything that's happening right now is so predictable.
That's the part that I just, I still, you know.
Yeah.
Totally.
Anyway, well, the reason I brought it up is I think that, like, the, just from a car
industry and, like, a car media or whatever, it's like the difference in the world between
last year and this year is so fucking vast and, like, the trends and kind of, like, the
feeling of, like, or just, like, the mood of, like, what's happening in cars is, like,
completely 180 degrees different.
Like-
Yeah.
And it's been, it's been really interesting to watch, I think, like, people digest that.
And I think, like, you know, whatever, following automotive media, you get to kind of watch people
digest that stuff in real time.
But it's, like, you know, so, so many of them have kind of held on to, like, whatever position
they were in last year or, like, whatever their, their kind of, like, worldview was last
year.
But it's, like, you know, and the other thing, too, is, like, watching the entire media apparatus
just continue to, like, disintegrate in front of us, too, has been, like, it's just, again,
it's, like, a totally different world and it's happened so quickly and so, like, completely
that, um, I don't know, like, I can't, I can't remember, you know, it's like, we've, in our
lifetimes, we've lived through some, some kind of big moments in, in history, but also, like,
in, in the car business and all that stuff.
And it's, like, this feels really different, like, this feels, like, 9-11 level different
of, like-
I think it's more.
I mean, honestly, I mean, you know, 9-11, all that did to cars was, was fucking, gave
everybody 0% interest in loans for a year.
Yeah.
It's like, go out there and buy, you know.
Yeah.
Don't let the terrorists win.
Go buy a car.
Go buy a truck.
Go buy a, um, range, too.
Right.
Put your freedom around.
But no, I, no, I mean, yeah, it's funny.
I guess, like, thinking about, and, and I, you know, I haven't, um, I haven't looked at
any end of the year kind of news things or, you know, synopses of, you know, just, like,
um, but yeah, I mean, I guess, like, um, yeah, thinking about it in these, I mean, just talking
about it now and thinking about it now, I think you're absolutely right.
Like, like, it's not just a watershed year in terms of cars.
I mean, it really is, it was just like, um, yeah, that was a fucking crazy year.
It's a weird one.
And 2020 was wild, right?
I mean, 2020 was COVID year and it was like, it was all the, you know, the crazy, um, you
know, cop, you know, unrest and, and, you know, the summer of lighting fucking police
stations on fire and, and, you know, just everybody just being completely unhinged.
Um, that felt like a big deal, but I feel like this is so much more consequential, you
know, and, and, um, um, yeah, and I feel like it's just this thing that's still kind of
in the process of being played out, but, um, yeah, I feel, I feel it feels irreversible
in a lot of ways.
Yeah.
And like that's, that's the thing is like, I guess like I can't figure out why it's so
shocking to me.
Like, you know, the, the George Floyd summer thing was shocking to me.
Like I did not see that coming.
I obviously didn't see 9-11 coming.
Um, yeah, I didn't see, you know, like COVID obviously was total like black swan.
Like, how did this happen?
It's like the Trump thing, like this, this exact thing I've known this was going to
happen for a long time, you know what I mean?
It's like, and you could see the little piece of it lining up the entire time.
And then it happened and it's like, whoa, like again, it's like, it feels like more
shocking than any of those other events.
And I think like, think about like the Volkswagen ID bus, like the environment that
that car was born in just a couple of years ago.
And it's like, you know, it's like a cute little, like I had a, I put a reservation
on one, like a little electric run up.
But like for, for here, it would be perfect.
Like to do my kid chores and that kind of stuff.
And like it, um, you know, granted, like it was pricey, although people, you know,
it's like, um, it's pricey, but everything, all cars are expensive.
But like the idea that that car would be in and out of the market in a year and
like just DOA, like, like, I think they sold like 5,000 of them.
It was just the absolute wrong car at the wrong time.
I mean, just like the vibes could not have been worse.
Shift it harder.
Yeah, it's just like, it's like the, you know, the, the photo of like, you know,
all the blonde girls, like turning around to like look at you.
It was like, the fuck are you?
You know, it's like, you know, that, that seemed like a hit two years ago.
Right.
Yeah.
But it's just, I feel like it's just, it's just illustrative of, of just how, how
just profoundly the mood has shifted to where it's just like, yeah, sorry, man.
You're, you showed up, uh, it's just, it's not the right.
Wrong time, wrong place.
Sorry.
But it, and it's so weird too, because it's like, um, there's, there are a bunch
of kind of products like that.
There's, it's just like in hindsight now, it's like, how could we ever have thought
that was going to work?
You know what I mean?
It's like, how could you ever have thought that like, um, which I guess is just
another like illustration of kind of the vibe too, where it's like, it feels so
total and complete now that it's like, you can't remember a time before it.
You know what I mean?
It's like, I don't, like, I don't remember that feeling of like, um, maybe
this will work or like, um, I don't know.
Like, and I guess, like, I, like I said, I've always been kind of an
Evie skeptic and like, um, and that's it.
But I, I did think the, the, like, if you had told me that the Volkswagen ID buzz
again was going to be introduced and pulled from the market in the same year, I
would have been like, no fucking way.
Like, like that's, you know what I mean?
Like that's, uh,
It's like an Edzel level, level disaster failure.
It's like even that car lasted like, like three years or whatever.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's like, I don't know.
And I, I still like fundamentally, I think like, I don't know.
Like they're a little bit flashy for me, I think at this point, but it's like, it
is a good idea to have like an electric, like not huge range minivan type of car.
Like that doesn't make a ton of sense for people, but like just not now and not
like it's just not anything that people are not here.
Yeah.
But it is, yeah, it's just it.
Well, again, I mean, if, if they had brought that car to market and it was
like $35,000, if it was half of, of what they were selling it for, I think that
would have, that would have made all the difference in the world.
But I don't know.
Like, I mean, I think it, I think they would have, they'd probably still be selling
them and they would have probably sold more.
I think there would have been a lot more takers.
I mean, I think that would have been a fairly appealing package to, to a lot
of people, but I mean, yeah, it, it is interesting.
I like it, I don't know.
Cause it, to me, like the average purchase price is like whatever, 50,000.
And I think those started at like 62 or something like that.
And it's like, okay, you probably, most of them on the little lots are, are
just under 70 or whatever.
So that is kind of asking a lot, but it's like people historically have spent a
lot of money on premium EVs.
Like that's not a, that's not a non-segment in the market.
You know what I mean?
Like the Tesla, Tesla's have done very well in the $100,000 range and like, well,
it's not very well, but you know what I mean?
Like within their niche, um, I don't know.
It just like, but it also to, I think to your point, you have to be kind of a
silly boy to buy a car like that.
And the silly boy is not, no, exactly.
That's the thing is it doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't fit,
comport with, with just the, I mean, that's, that's, I guess that's what I
mean with, with the vibes being, being wrong because, because it doesn't, it
doesn't, um, it doesn't telegraph $70,000 car.
No, no, and it is a weird thing to spend $70,000 and people, people who are
buying $70,000 cars, like they want it to, you know, it needs to, yeah, it
needs to have, have the, the kind of semi, semiotic value that communicates
that, that you have, that you're an affluent person who, who can buy, you
know, a fucking Lexus or a high end Tesla or whatever, you know, and, and
that car is just kind of too, too playful and, and just kind of, you know, I
mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a 21st century kind of version of, of a
car that, that, you know, I mean, you know, people who, who have living, living
memory of those cars, you know, like I do, they were, they were cheap, you
know, they were just like super cheap basic transportation cars, you know, and
that's, that's what was, like they kind of had a reverse snob appeal, right?
Yeah.
You know, wealthy people bought them because, because they had this, this
kind of like, it was just kind of like a cute toy, like, you know, as an
affectation, right?
Yeah.
It doesn't work in the other direction.
Right.
For folks, so I can.
I wonder, I guess it's kind of too, like how much, how much in the current
economic, like we just talked about, like, you know, you're putting your
groceries in a pan for, like how much of the US market for cars right now even
really has the bandwidth to make a consumer choice based on what's fun
anymore when it comes to the car.
It's like, I got to get to work.
What do you got?
I don't know.
I feel like a lot of that is compromised to you about, like, there's only, you
only have so much reach anymore, let alone grasp as far as, like the kind of
consumer choices you can make versus the ones you're just sort of shunted into.
Yeah.
Fun, fun's not for everybody.
Not everybody gets to have fun.
This is just a couple of people get to have fun.
Although my aunt and uncle traded in there, they had a BRZ and they traded
it in for a Polestar.
So they were talking about the one example of that happening.
I know.
Well, you know, what's funny is they were, they were talking about, like we
were just talking about people admitting to like China being good.
I had dinner table conversation around Christmas with family members who are
not like progressive people who were like, yeah, we heard Polestar was, we
heard there with Geely and we kind of figured if we were going to get an EV.
This was where to go.
Like this is going to be the place to go to look at EVs for sticking with these
guys.
And I was like, cool.
Okay.
That is, that is interesting.
They have a bellwether.
That is, yeah.
I mean, I think that's, that's another thing too.
It's like on the China thing that the kind of like emergence of that into
the mainstream, but also like the, just five years ago, whatever, like the,
the thing was like, oh, this is made in China.
Like it's a piece of shit, everything.
And like no one believes that anymore.
And also the other thing too is like, I mean, the, the kind of like xenophobic
or, or like, um, patriotic, um, car thing where it's like, oh, I would never
buy a Japanese car or never buy a Korean car.
Like, you know, I need an American car or whatever.
But it's like, that's gone entirely.
And like the people, I don't think anyone, it's like half the shit that you
own is made in China already.
So it's like the, the, it's not, um, you know, Toyota and Honda coming to the
United States, like in the mid-century America, like, like you already have a
relationship with China, with China.
Right.
Peter, you, you, you were, you probably remember at least some of the time period
where it was like, oh, this is made in Japan.
It must be bad before everyone found out that it was like, oh shit.
Yeah, I was going to say, and the thing about that, that shift, um, in perception
where from, from made in Japan, being something that was just kind of like cheap
and disposable, um, to being something that was like, oh no, that's the good one.
Yeah.
Um, that kind of took decades, you know, that took a fucking long time, you know,
and it kind of was, was helped by like, I mean, it was definitely certain things,
you know, like cars, um, you know, like high-end electronics, you know, stereo
stuff or whatever.
Nakamichi tape deck, baby.
You know, musical instruments, whatever.
Um, but, and then it kind of gradually filtered out from there.
And, um, but I feel like, like that, that kind of shift in perception with,
with Chinese stuff, I feel like that's happened, I mean, in much the same way
that, that China's kind of economic, um, uh, kind of miracle as, as, you know,
just, you know, it's kind of breathtaking and it's just how quickly it happened.
Um, uh, I feel like that, that shift in perception has, has kind of, you know,
happened with, with equal rapidity.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It is funny cause I, you know, that was like, again, another thing I can
remember talking to like American car executives about, you know, four or five
years ago and it's like, do you think people would really buy a Chinese car?
Like, you know, we're kind of like enemies of China.
And it's like, no, we're not.
Like this, you might be in like, there are like people like in, in political
power might be, but like no one thinks that way.
I mean, I don't, I don't even think there's like that much.
I mean, actually that's not true.
I think liberals, liberals very much have an anti-Chinese, um, uh, political
stand, but it doesn't keep them from buying Chinese stuff.
I guess that's what I'm saying.
Right.
Well, there's been effort to manufacture that with all the, um, you know, the very,
various, uh, uh, by God, that's Samantha Powers music type situations that you
hear about news that everyone's kind of given up on now.
Um, but I remember during COVID, um, a lot of younger people, especially I would
hear about this from, uh, people I knew who were in their like early 20s who were
kind of keeping an eye on this for me because I don't, I'm not in short form
video world, but like there was a big resurgence of kind of anti-Chinese, um,
sentiment on place like TikTok because of COVID where like a lot of young people
were talking about like, um, you know, China did this to us.
And you know, like this is all like, uh, some Chinese plot, like, and that, but
that also did not last by sea.
And now everyone's, yeah.
Yeah.
It was the, it was like the stop Asian hate era.
Oh yeah.
I remember the hashtag.
Yeah.
It's kind of remarkable how quickly all of that evaporated.
How everything fell apart.
All the propaganda stuff just collapsed.
And now China's like, and we have EVs and trains, new trains, check it out.
And anybody can go on YouTube and just like watch these like Western vloggers like
visiting like these, you know, these cities that just, you know, are just
absolute wonders.
And, and it's just like, like the jig is up, man.
I show speed when to China.
It's jover.
There's, there's no hiding it anymore.
Yeah.
The, the, the one kind of like place that I still see a lot of anti-Chinese
sentiment is like Kevin Williams's comment sections.
That's true.
It's like a racist against Kevin and also racist against Chinese
people kind of simultaneously.
Double whammy.
Kevin, you're God's strongest soldier.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But yeah, but I think, yeah, other than that, like that's
I don't know.
I think that the number of people who have like a strong anti-Chinese attitude that
would keep them from buying a Chinese car is like vanishingly small these days.
Which is good.
Amen.
Actually, and good too, because I'll be, I'll be with the Zeekr boys on Sunday.
I'm very excited for your report.
I'm driving a Zeekr driving my first Chinese car.
Oh my God.
Proper Chinese car.
So excited to hear about that.
Please.
I know.
I'll call you from the, call you from my
Bluetooth connection on the Zeekr.
Hell yeah.
So excited.
Oh my God.
I'm psyched.
It's gonna be fun.
It's gonna be good.
Should we wrap with that?
Oh, I had, I had one more.
Oh, go ahead.
I just wanted to say I wanted to do one quick
in the Memoriam for 2025.
I did want to say I know we lost Al Pierce last year, who was the long running motorsports
reporter and at AutoWeek, frequent comment hitter on the AutoWeek podcast.
And I wanted to say that the summer before we started doing Tired, I was working in a
AutoWeek podcast nonstop, that whole back catalog, very fun, Rory and all the crew.
And I always really liked them.
Is it still online somewhere?
My last existing feed that had the episodes is gone, but I have them all backed up.
So I got them.
I don't know if anyone else, but you know I got that shit.
But they're, the episodes were always really fun.
I always loved what Al would call in and I loved his description of just like jumping
in to reporting the way that he did very early in his career, just showing up and being like,
I'll learn how to write about this stuff.
Listen, give me a job.
And I remember I had listened to one of those pretty soon after Peter called me and talked
about like, hey, this is what I want to do is start doing this thing.
And I said like, yeah, I can jump in, learn how to produce a podcast.
That's fine.
And I remember at the time thinking about like, you know, well, if a guy like Al Piers can jump
in and learn how to report on NASCAR and stuff, then like, I could probably figure out how to
do this on the fly, just like hop in and with both feet.
So I just want to say thank you.
Thank you to Al and RIP really, really appreciate your contribution to the world of motor sports
and off into the great blue gondor.
Yeah, that was a great dude.
He was, I spent a lot of fun times hanging out with him and Daytona and kind of get to know him.
And yeah, was a fucking character, man.
What a strange life story and like, what an odd guy.
And I also like probably got into it more with Al than pretty much anybody I ever worked with.
Yeah, yeah, he was not afraid to tell me when I was wrong.
But anyway, I got to meet him that that one year at the Coca-Cola 600 before
before we moved away from Charlotte.
I was just like, I can't have lived in Charlotte and not go to the
Coca-Cola to the Speedway and and so did and and hung out in the press room a bit and got to
hang out with him and and yeah, he was great.
He was awesome.
He had ridden down on his or I think I think he had had he had he like recently like broken
his leg on his his arm falling over on the motorcycle going five miles an hour.
Yeah, but yeah, no, he seemed he seemed like a like a great dude.
Yeah, yeah, he was a good dude.
It was I was really glad when he did his I think it was supposed to be his last day,
I like jumped famously Rory Trap of like jumping down,
getting on a plane for like three hours on the ground in
in Daytona and getting a cake and getting him some recognition from the the press room.
Daytona was really cool.
But yeah, that's a good one, Mehdi.
That also when you said the Alperestide that feels like 40 years ago today.
Like that that's right.
I came upstairs because you were you were sitting at the table and I was like,
does Rory know I'm not going to text Rory?
I should go upstairs and let Rory know in person that I heard.
That literally feels like maybe five years ago that that happened.
I know, what a year.
And Richard Richard looked at me as kindly as he could and said,
well, boy, you don't know much, do you?
And and I said that Richard no third, but I expect to learn.
And if you if you asked him right now, what is the dumbest question he was ever asked?
You're probably poor to me and say.
All right, so do we do we have any just one one more thing?
One more thing.
2026 automotive death pool.
Oh, in terms of like like not not people like like car car car makers,
who do we think who do we think will not make it to 2027?
I mean, there's probably there's probably some Chinese companies that are not going to make it
that or that are going to get rolled up into some other companies.
We've already discussed that.
Big three, Lee Otto, Neo and there was one more.
Oh, I think those are just big three to us.
I mean, I think I think they're just there.
There's so many other ones that just kind of fledgling like brands that
no, I think there's there's a lot of consolidation still to happen in Slate trucks
got to buy it, right?
No, they're they're not even they're not even selling cars until August.
So they have to they'll make it if they would have to be in and out of the market in
like three months, four months, I think they're going to make it past that.
I think I think they actually it'll be interesting to see how those sell.
But I think like their model is interesting is as far as like like how cheap those cars
are going to be to make and then like how they are going to distribute them.
It'll be interesting to see like, you know, it may it may be naive to say this, but it's like
because there's like so many hurdles with the EVs, it's like this is
like if if we're entering a period in of like economic slowdown and it's like where people
do just need transportation, like the like hyper cheap modular pickup has like a
real like William Gibson type appeal of like, oh, this is just the car that everyone has,
you know, like, yeah.
Rory's bullish on the Slate truck.
I like it.
I mean, I'll be interested to see I mean, honestly, I think anybody if anybody that
fucking can bring something to market for 30 grand, I think has a very good chance of succeeding.
If they can do that and and and make money doing it.
I just think that like, yeah, people just need that.
People need an affordable fucking car.
It is like I said earlier, it's like if if the used car market was different, I would say like
the it would be fine to completely abandon like the bottom end of the market.
And I think like if you're a full line automaker, it is fine to do that.
Like you're making money elsewhere.
But it's like I can't believe that there aren't people who are just purely priced out of the
market.
You know what I mean?
It's like so like who would be a new car buyer if if there was a car at their price point.
You know what I mean?
But they work for them.
So I think they'll be but okay, let's see who's gonna who's not gonna make it.
I don't know.
I think like I mean there are a lot of companies that are in trouble.
Tesla's in trouble.
I think Polestar is in trouble.
I'm sorry.
This was another one thing that one story of 2025 that we didn't touch upon at all
was just the fucking Elon arc for how fucking crazy that shit was.
Like in the first you know in the doge era.
And how it just felt like wow this is you know completely destroying this brand and nobody
wants to be associated with it and people are fucking selling their cars and trading them in
because they don't you know they don't want to get shit thrown at them or whatever.
Tesla stock you know which which did tank for a minute there is currently as high higher
basically than it has ever ever been.
It's completely recovered and then some just like just continuing to just I
I guess like the other the other kind of overarching story of 2025 is just like you
know even as all this kind of calamity is unfolding in a million different ways
there's also that sense that we've talked about frequently of just like
just waiting for the other fucking shoe to drop.
It's like how long can this shit just all just kind of like
just somehow just like remain in that you know that moment of of like fucking road runner you
know or while Wiley Coyote like spinning his fucking legs like in midair you know.
It's like what defined gravity you know it's like how how does this how does this continue
and yet it continues. Oh that's what he does he just there's no consequences for anybody
there why would there be right. I think I think it's something that we've kind of been
around in this episode but I think like the last year has felt like unmoored from
any any type of reality like yeah and like the Tesla the Tesla thing is always seemed crazy
to me and it's always seemed like oh okay there's going to be consequences for this eventually
but it's like I don't know like maybe there isn't like maybe this is just you know what I mean
it's like I I think and I think I've talked about this too on the pod but it's like
four or five years ago I remember seeing like durable goods numbers were really like
scary low like orders for like and then I remember like digging in and finding like a
bunch of other doomy kind of like classic economic indicators of like oh this is some
bad's going to happen and then fucking COVID happened and nothing happened like that like
really it was fine you know what I mean like from an economic standpoint from like a like
nothing yeah well it was it was the thing that kind of just derailed that that whatever was
going to happen it's like it kind of like came in gave this external reason for for everything to
just like tank in this you know completely insane way and then you know they just fucking
unleashed you know four trillion dollars and just everything just like came whoop you know
it's just like like a bellows on on the fire and it just you know exploded like you know
twice as much as big as it was before yeah everyone's too big to fail except you and me
we're all everywhere everything's too big to fail except us people normal people with lives
no exactly like there are economic consequences happening but they're happening to like regular
people like you can no one no one can get a job and everyone's paying in four for their groceries
but like the system stays because it's all that's where all the fail safes are it's the market it's
it's the people who are dependent on the market which is you know the the top 10 percent of you
know I mean yeah who even have any stake in the market and it's like everybody else is just kind
of like yeah whatever they're just keeping the building intact long enough to pull all the
copper wire out and then like you feel like eventually they'll probably blow it up but like
we all of us inside but they haven't yet because there's still copper wire in the walls I guess
and we find out how long it takes them to get it out but like not yet
I um yeah I so Tesla no I mean I don't that's the thing is like I I do I do not understand
other than like the meme stock part of it I do not understand the case for Tesla I cannot
I cannot fucking imagine a person who can get dressed and get in a car and go to their office
during the day believing that they're gonna have AI and robots that like make money like I that is
not a thing for an adult to believe I'm sorry uh but it's um yeah I just I don't
yeah I mean inshallah if if we lose Tesla this year it will they will whatever else happens is fine
but yeah I don't I don't really have a death pull I can't I can't think anybody who's
except for like I said those Chinese companies that probably won't won't make it I mean I I
yeah I don't know that anybody's gonna be extinguished but but it does seem like I mean there's some
some up and you know some some some you know smaller struggling you know I mean like lucid I
don't know I don't know how how much longer how much more kind of Saudi money lucy and yeah and
that bums me out because I I think those are sick they make really interesting well engineered cars
I would like them to succeed but um
I wonder I mean I I do wonder like
Stalantis seems like
one to watch just a mess you know they just released a new TRX today ram TRX they're back baby
is that gonna be the thing they did no they they just like rolled one out I think yesterday
um oh okay I missed this like I've been I've been off of the uh
they're beat strategy is it is 2019 again like that's that is what they're going
which maybe that's fine like maybe that maybe that works yeah like like the Chrysler brand
I wonder about the Chrysler brand Chrysler brand is very wide does that exist just all that one
minivan um just make it a dodge and call it the beautiful humble pacifica a really nice car
they're great I love them moving vehicle of your dreams yeah um I I would say like Volkswagen has a
lot of brands that are in trouble but like none of those seem ripe for spiking you know what I mean
like they'll have a purpose and a place like that I could get rid of Bentley or Audi um
but yeah I Chrysler brand would be a that is a pretty big question mark as to why that's still
still happening I'm sure it's like they have some legal obligations to dealers and stuff is
a lot of it um but um
yeah I think everybody makes it I think everybody's gonna make it through 2026 that's my prediction
I like it all the car companies there's there's some there's some message of hope
yeah yeah yeah whatever I mean I don't think that I don't necessarily I don't necessarily think
that's a good thing but I do I do think they are all gonna make it um do we have um did you see uh
go ahead not good I was gonna say do we are if we want to if we're pivoting to pausey do we have
looking forward to in the new year for no for this year automatically
no categorically no um
yeah I have some I mean I have some things I'm hopeful about but I would say that
looking forward is a very strong uh yeah no absolutely not
but I'm I'm looking forward to some just race stuff just me too yeah good to some races
yeah I'm psyched for this year I have plenty of stuff to look forward to I'm pausey I'm
keeping it chill I'm feeling good I think I think um I think I think the Aston Martin
Valkyrie is gonna win win some races I would love that I'm excited for that that'd be cool
I'm excited for the Valkyrie I'm excited for Cadillac and F1 I'm excited for both of my
boys on Trackhouse in Cup this season um what else I'm gonna have a great year motorsports
fully I'm gonna have a good time uh everything else I have no idea I could go I could all go
horribly wrong but motorsports looking great gonna be fun for me well that's good yeah I mean I
guess is like I don't know I don't know I looking forward is strong like I said I it'll be good
to get some races this year um it's like uh there's so much uncertainty too it's like the I would say
like the alloy stuff I'm really looking forward to but it's like right now it's like um that's
something that happened already and like now it needs to happen way more for me to feel good
about it so like definitely not like there's a there's a more dread I mean I think like I think
it is gonna work and like I think it's it's gonna be great um but it's fucking stressful to think
about it's not like I'm sitting here like oh this is gonna be a good time right uh it's it is um
yeah uncertain um but yeah
I think that's it I think that's what I'm looking forward to nothing
nothing
every day has been worse than the last
ever so that's what I'm that's what I'm looking forward to um so far
anyway uh stay tired yeah all right all right boys all right stay tired
now Peter's got the balloons wait they they went off oh my god it happened how did that
happen I had to use my craft work sample again that was exciting I don't know how you did it I
don't know you do the peace sign I thought I thought that like one of you guys made that happen I
thought that was and then I realized oh no that's just happening in my window like did I gesture
did my gesture make that happen you did it somehow I don't know how they're back oh my god this is
when you were doing it you weren't no it was happening gesture it was just like
happening at random it's funny because like people use google meets for like serious like
we could be having like a divorce proceeding or like uh like I could be getting sentenced to
something right now and the balloons go up the balloons have chosen a new host for 2026
exciting Peter's the balloon pope now yeah he's the party pope oh my god it's like the ring
that's fantastic all right I could do where's my craft work sample I have to find that I gotta
get that when Rory's would go off you gotta bring it up damn that was that was wild it's
delightful okay I'm so happy happy to you you know what uh maybe nothing to look forward to
but it's nice to be surprised sometimes by the balloons that's right
very good all right boys happy new year fellas happy new year stay tired
so
Al, as always, a pleasure having you on.
We'll have to do it, hope I didn't talk too much.
Nope, that'll never happen.
Thanks again, and we'll talk to you then.
Alright guys, thank you.
Yep, thanks.
Bye-bye.
About this episode
New Year's Day brings a mix of nostalgia and cynicism as the hosts reflect on the absurdity of corporate-sponsored bowl games, particularly the Pop Tart Bowl. They share humorous anecdotes about the event and discuss the changing landscape of the automotive industry, including the rise of Chinese manufacturers and the struggles of legacy brands. The conversation touches on personal resolutions, the state of electric vehicles, and the broader economic implications of the automotive market. With a blend of humor and insight, the episode captures the chaotic spirit of the new year.
Original notes
We recorded this on New Years Day to talk about vibe shifts, the semiotics of the ID. Buzz, who's doomed in 2026, Cheez-It v. Pop-Tart, and one In Memoriam. Plus: a twist ending and, at Matty & Rory's insistence, some new Peter tunes to play us out...
You can support Alloy with a membership here: https://alloymag.com/sign-up/
Our outro music was from Peter's new one: https://peterpeterhughes.bandcamp.com/track/happy-20xx-everybody
And if you missed last year's Half-Staff Blues, it's always in season: https://peterpeterhughes.bandcamp.com/album/half-staff-blues
Your producer pal Matty, who writes these, has nothing to plug. support my wonderful co-hosts ty ty ty ˖⁺‧₊˚ ♡ ˚₊‧⁺˖
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