Episode #204 - The Dudes Do 'Ludes

In a world with entirely too many shows about cars, this is another Pointless Automotive Podcast.

Oh, Nellie, how are you, Chadwick?

I was waiting for Nellie to answer your question, but I'm doing fine, man.

Thank you.

Oh, you don't have a single band-aid on your cheek?

Right under this rugged beard.

There you go.

Batter up.

How are you doing, man?

How are you hanging in there?

I'm doing good.

And we had a panic, panic is a strong term, a text exchange a couple of hours ago of

a holy shit.

Like, what are we going to talk about today?

That doesn't sound like us.

No, not at all.

But I had a recent rabbit hole I ended up going down, but it's strangely topical.

Thank God he said rabbit.

Well, you usually put a lot of topical ointments on your other hole, but...

Well, that, and depending on how you're using your rechargeable rabbit, it could

be involved in the hole.

Get in the hole.

But no, somewhat topical, but a car that we've talked about in passing many a time

here on the pod.

Absolutely.

But I think it's about time we've dedicated entire episode to the Honda Prelude.

Oh.

That is topical.

Which we've talked about it before, famously you're a fifth gen stan and I'm a fourth

gen truther.

But you know, we've talked about really all the gens except the sixth gen.

We've never said time talking about the sixth gen because it's a new thing and that's what

people are talking about.

That's what gets the people moving, but not very quickly.

And so I wanted to talk about the new one.

Hey, I wanted to talk about the Honda Prelude.

The Honda Prelude.

Are you a big Prelude hand?

Head?

Hand?

Yeah.

Handed.

Prelude land?

Head to the hand.

Got it.

Head to the head.

Prelude, yes.

I've always, man, it was the S2000 before the S2000 was the S2000.

I think the Prelude, I've always liked it.

I've always thought of it as a bigger Honda compared to its civics and whatnot.

But to me and the reason I'm a fifth gen truther, I'm saying it again, is H22, baby.

Your only engine option was an absolute peach.

That motor just gets it done, dude.

Good power, good horsepower, good torque, good displacement, 2.2 stout and that's the only

engine option you had.

You could get SH with your super handling or as I'd take it without one less thing to

worry about, extra weight and all that good stuff.

Fifth gen for life, dude.

I'm sorry.

And also, to be honest, the fourth gen and fifth gen, they just swapped the taillights

and headlights.

That's all they did, dude.

That's from a design standpoint.

I don't know.

There's more to it than.

There's actually a lot more to it.

That's all.

You've got to squint at it.

You've got to have a few beers more than you're currently having.

Okay, so let's set the record straight.

I'm trying to think.

So I know I've never driven a first gen and I want to and it won't be good, but I

want to.

I know I've driven a base second gen that had like all the miles in the world on it.

I had a friend who had one like 260,000 miles.

I've driven a couple of second gens.

I've driven a regular SI manual and I've driven an SI four wheel drive auto.

You're talking 34.

Third gen.

What did I say?

Second.

I was like, good Lord.

Well, yeah.

No first gen, one second gen, two third gens and all the all wheel steering.

I know I've talked about it in here before, longers.

I've driven one, no, I've driven two fourth gens.

I've driven a Vtech five speed, won a Type S or sorry, SI, SI, that's a 160 horse version.

That one was like a super low cream, super low mile cream puff car.

And the only fifth gen I've ever driven was a base auto that had a bunch of shit wrong

with it.

With a Vtech.

It had a Vtech, but it was also a broken.

Yeah.

It was auto.

It was pretty tore up.

And I was trying to set some mock monitors on it, so I wasn't exactly whooping on it.

Never driven a sixth gen.

How about you?

What's your, what's your, what's your tale of the prelude?

Nope.

No first gens.

Personally also had a friend that had a second gen beat to shit, so that's probably not

the best experience.

I like how that's the.

It's the standard.

Right.

Commonality.

Yeah.

So third gens also have driven a beat to shit one and a really, really sweet

SSI, uh, yellow pop ups as they all came, um, I have a soft spot in my heart for those

as well.

Agreed.

Uh, fourth gen driven, like a handful of them.

I had a lot of friends with those.

They were really popular because in the mid to late nineties, even the late nineties,

you could get a, you could get a fourth gen for like pocket change for whatever reason.

I was just a used Honda used Honda and they, they, dude, those things took to

rust like no one's business back home.

So most of them were just completely, yeah, yeah, yeah, northeast rot, but they, um, I

liked them.

I thought they were cool.

I really liked the dash layout in those ones.

I thought that was a super fun experience.

And when that came out, that was like really cool.

If someone had one of those back in the day, like all my buddies bragged about it, um,

but, uh, driven a couple, uh, fifth gens, which are still my favorite.

I love how they look.

They look so clean.

It's like cleaned up, uh, to me.

It looks, the, the fortune's interesting because it has the, uh, the little, you know,

the little air vent.

I know it's non-functional, just design really, uh, next to the headlights, but I think the,

the fifth gens, the more polished, the more final product and the fact that the engine

options were probably the best engine you could have picked for all the lineup.

Um, I think, I think that's why it solidifies.

It's the fourth gen V tech motor, but that's all you get.

Like there's no, there's no lower trims.

Yeah.

You don't have to, you don't have to like when you're shopping, you don't have

to worry if someone's misrepresenting.

It's always an H 22 in there, uh, a lot of manuals.

Um, I feel like I haven't seen too many autos.

I know you mentioned the junkyard.

Yeah.

They're terrible transmission.

Uh, good, good car that each 22 paired with that, uh, five-speed manual, fifth gen

for life, but yeah, have not driven the sixth gen.

I don't know how I feel about the new, uh, Honda coupe hybrid, but yeah, I don't

know.

I wonder, I'm sure it has some redeeming qualities, right?

Yeah.

I guess, um, maybe, should we, should we just jump right into sixth gen talk?

Yeah.

Let's do, let's get it out of the way.

Then we'll talk about the good ones.

Yeah.

Fair.

So.

All right.

Hot, hot take alert.

Um, not really, but like, okay.

So sixth generation prelude, that's the brand new one.

Um, the one that everyone has been like waiting for forever, right?

It's like somewhere between the fifth gen Supra before we got the Supra and

half-life three, right?

Where like, oh my God.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Like, oh no, it's going to come back one day and they're, they're going to do it just

like if Honda brings back a new S 2000 or a real, I guess the return of the NSX or is

apropos, but like super long awaited, um, for the extreme amount of people, super

disappointing on paper.

Yeah.

Um, so I guess just to set the stage, 200 horsepower.

Hybrid powertrain is the exact same powertrain coming out of the civic hybrid.

Hence my comment.

Um, automatic only because of course, um, allegedly has quote unquote the same suspension from

the civic test, uh, civic type R. And I don't know what that means.

I don't know if that means the entire suspension completely bolt, not in bolts for

nut and bolt, or if it's just the spring rates and shocks, you know, dampers, like I

don't know.

Yeah, I doubt it has the same R suspension, geometry and all that good stuff.

I doubt it.

Um, and a disastrous $43,000, um, price tag before ADM and every single one of these

has $10,000 plus ADM.

Um, yeah, I saw one.

Yeah.

Last night and I, I, I didn't text it to you actually sent it to Doug.

I was like, here's something for you to talk about on your podcast.

So me as a dealership who has one in stock, they're asking 176.

How is that real?

They're, they're adding 130 K on top, which is insane, which means they just don't

want to sell it.

Right.

It's just who knows.

Yeah.

Um, what are your, what are your thoughts on this thing?

So that's, that's the table.

Like, do you think it's good?

Do you think how does it look?

What do you think of the performance?

Like how are you disappointed?

Does it make sense to you?

What's your take?

I mean, is this an outlier in a renowned badge or nameplate being brought back into

something that completely doesn't represent what it's set for?

It's absolutely, yeah, as they continue, uh, the trend, uh, this is just a trend

that's like, it's across the entire automotive landscape, right?

We see a lot of this behavior.

Shep E trailblazer.

Yeah.

It's a good example.

God, dude.

It's not even like a good name and they found a way to sully it, but yeah.

No, no, no good there.

Um, do I think it looks good?

I think it looks okay.

I think it's a pretty modern looking take on a, um, Prius, I can't say anything

nice.

I don't, I don't get it.

I really don't get it.

Um, it's a slightly sportier, uh, hybrid civic, right?

At the end of the day, um, maybe it handles really good.

Uh, I'm sure the Honda Civic Hybrid is a fantastic commuting car.

I just don't see any reason why you'd opt for this over that.

Um, besides the name, the looks, uh, maybe the handling prowess, but you

really don't purchase a fuel economy card.

You know what it kind of reeks of a little bit?

The CRZ.

Yes.

Right.

Like I'm getting ultimately.

That is, it's infuriating to me that they didn't learn anything from the CRZ

experience.

Frank, they unlearned because with the CRZ, they were kind enough to

reach around, you know, or reach around the front and give us, yeah,

with a manual.

Give you a stick to jiggle.

Yeah.

They gave us a stick.

They put a stick in their hand.

Uh, they gripped it and then ripped it.

Exactly.

So that was the common courtesy of giving us the reach around.

The prelude doesn't do that.

Cause like you said, we're burdened with, is it a CVT?

Probably.

I didn't do all that research.

It's, I'm sure it's like a direct dry.

It's, it's, it's, yeah, it's, it's effectively a hybrid in the CVT or

whatever.

Like it's, um, it's one of those things where on pay, was I saying CRZ?

I was saying CRZ.

Wasn't I?

Yeah, yeah.

I was saying CRX.

The CRZ.

I get tired.

Yeah.

Uh, HIV.

HPV.

Yeah.

Hey, I'll trade you.

Communicable Hondas.

No, um, yeah, exactly.

No, actually non-communicable.

No one wants the, no one wants these fuckers.

That's right.

Yeah.

You, you take prep before you take prep before you go to your dealer.

Um, no.

So otherwise you might end up with a prelude.

Cool.

No, um, so I, and the Honda is modern Honda.

I should say is very, very, very good at.

Reading the tea leaves of their enthusiast, uh, base.

Okay.

Right.

They're, they're enthusiast fans and then completely reading them incorrectly.

Then ignoring all their hopes.

This was the new NSX, right?

Where on paper, you could make the argument of we have this legendary name plate.

Sure.

It was tech forward at the time and it was a use of a daily a bull quote unquote

daily a bull exotic car.

Um, you can say that about the first gen and I don't try to do that with the new

one, but again, reading the tea leaves wrong and reading and completely missing

the plot was how possible and light on the front end.

That car was and how kind of pointy it was and how analog it was and had a

little, it had a little more rumble than you would expect when you would start

it up and it felt like the clutch was real light in the inputs were light.

So it was daily a bull and reliable, but all of the inputs in the actual

driving experience not on paper in reality is nothing like the new NSX.

I would, I would argue your point though.

I don't think the original NSX and I owned a 93.

I don't think of it as a tech platform because I had no ABS.

I had no power steering.

Sure.

I chassis dynamics wise engineering of the body.

Absolutely.

Really, really, uh, step forward there competing a mid-engine layout

I would say that powertrain other than it being a five-speed not a six-speed.

I would say that powertrain was pretty fucking advanced for the time.

A high-reving v6.

I'll give you that.

But when I think of a 3000 GT VR four, there is so much more tech

on display versus.

Yeah, that's right.

Like four-wheel steering active arrow twin turbo v6.

You know, there's like, right.

I think they jammed more four-wheel steering.

You name it.

All the like special bells and whistles you could get optioned on

a 3000 GT VR four.

I think that's more of the tech approach.

Like, so if they would have like, but the NSX was always like you said

it was the handling dynamics, the lightweight, the exotic competitor

for the fraction of the price, right?

That's that's the NSX ticket and you're right.

They think.

Hybrided the shit out of it and it fast as fuck.

Absolutely way faster than the other one was against its

contemporaries, right?

Sure.

Yeah.

So it was like an Elise and I would say an Elise has way more

in common with an original NSX.

Yeah, I agree.

I would agree with that statement.

Like it's, it's, it's frustrating because I feel like Honda's good

at aligning the marketing, but not the actual car.

Like, like if you look at the new, okay.

So back back to the problem child at hand, the new prelude

on paper, they could be like, look the prelude, right?

It was the prelude of, of new tech and usability and, you know,

where you had the SH all wheel drive and you had V tech and

like on the fourth gen, you had the digital, the fucking digital

dash and it was the entire dash.

Yeah.

And four wheel steering was an option and earlier third gen,

you know, program, the PG, PG MFI programmable fuel

injection.

Exactly.

Again, four wheel steering and then later anti-lock brakes was

like a trim level effectively.

V tech technology, like really harnessed, like remember,

like for the early 90s was when we started to see V tech.

And so it was a little bit of a tech platform.

Yeah.

In a reason, quote unquote, reasonably priced.

Yeah.

Usable personal coupe, but like a smaller tighter personal

coupe than like an SC 300 or some shit.

So on paper, you can say, oh, that's the new one, right?

It's a hybrid.

It's got this sport shift technology and it's got a light

bar.

So we're being futuristic.

And we add like, we add a little pinch of whatever on the

dash, even though it's a civic dash, but we put a trim

here.

So it's totally bespoke and the seats are nice and stuff

like that.

So like on paper and in marketing, you can be like,

yeah, that's like a talk and it's got the sport suspension.

But in reality, it so blindly misses the plot and then is

overpriced by 10 grand before dealers get ahold of it and

then overpriced it an additional 10 to 20 grand or 100 or

100 grand.

And then it's going to and guess what?

It's not going to sell.

It's going to fail.

It's going to come out of the market after four years.

And it's going to be like, nope.

Nobody's buying coupes.

We made the thing.

We gave we gave the people what they wanted and it sorry

doesn't work.

I fixed it, Frank.

Right now.

I fixed it inside.

This is great because what?

How would you fix this car today?

Because I have right now I have I have a plan.

What's your plan?

Insight Sport Coupe.

Okay, with a manual option.

Insight Sport Coupe.

Okay.

Don't try to don't try to bring a nameplate back that it has

no like really it doesn't really like trend from that.

It doesn't really there's no family lineage insight.

However, two door.

This one has a two plus two, which is even a step above,

but it's a sport coupe.

This is more sporty and insight was never sporty.

Never sold to be sporty.

They were very light.

But this one leans more on the sporty side.

So we call it the sport coupe.

We even write insight the old insight way of doing it.

And then like a fancy nineties kind of cursive sport coupe

diagonally underneath.

That's kind of fun.

Sure.

And then a manual just like the insight had one of the coolest

things about those original insights were the five speed

manual options.

Sure.

Those things were ridiculous.

This probably gets similar fuel economy to tell you the

truth is those original insights maybe a little less,

but probably pretty close given the new hybrid technology.

Insight Sport Coupe.

We send it.

I think that's fun.

And then you don't expect too much of the performance

category, but you do get the better handling that qualifies

the sport coupe nameplate.

That's it.

I have a fix.

And I don't I don't hit your idea.

I don't know if there's the original insight just like that

original civic hybrid was the the IMA motor, the integrated

motor assist, which basically made it so you could have

a manual transmission.

I don't know if you can do that with the current setup or

what it would entail.

Yeah.

Maybe it's doable.

And if they found a way to make a, you know, whatever gets

high 40s low 50s mile a gallon with a manual in a hybrid.

Wait, did the CRZ have a IMA?

Yes.

CRZ the integrated motor assist.

Yeah.

And which was basically the motor was like integrated into

the flywheel clutch assembly.

They could have made it happen.

I don't know enough about the existing part.

And if we can't, if we can't put the manual, I still like

insight sport coupe.

I think I think that's I'm going to do it and then

she will grant off the price and then fuck it.

Yeah.

Then got it completely because it weighs 2000 pounds.

So at risk of making this entirely about the sixth gen

prelude, I like to have thought of a solution here.

Let's hear it.

And this is what's really upsetting about the current

prelude is that in my head was like, well, they didn't

want to make all this bespoke shit for a coupe because

coupes don't sell.

So that's why they just took the civic hybrid power

train and they built a coupe body and they built a parts

car parts bin car.

Right.

However, and so that's how we ended up where we are.

However, this is Honda.

Honda has a Civic Si with a 200 horsepower 1.5 liter turbo

gas engine.

Right.

And a six speed manual, an excellent six speed manual by

all accounts.

I've never driven one, but by the poles are in and it's

excellent.

Honda does that.

So you already have that.

You already have the Civic Si and you and you have the

current hybrid power train.

Okay, you have all of these.

The bespoke thing that you built is the body is the

chassis.

So if you're going to revive this name and you have the

parts bin, why are you only pulling from the worst part

of the parts bin?

If you want to have that as an offering and maybe

that's going to be the volume seller, let the market

decide.

I don't know, but if you and so here's my thought.

Oh, you have a 200 horsepower automatic or manual base

model Honda prelude gas 200 horsepower.

Okay.

It's called the prelude or maybe the prelude s.

I don't know.

Okay.

Prelude s.

Right.

It's 30 32.

It's roughly the same cost as a Civic Si right 32 grand

31 grand, whatever the modern Civic Si is.

I know it's low 30s.

Yeah.

Call it 32.

Great.

You can get a manual 200 horsepower.

It's possible.

It's got the it's got the the more fun Si suspension.

Great.

Sure.

You then you want to satisfy the the people gooning

for the high performance version.

You take that to leader.

You take the powertrain from the Civic Type R power train.

You're already putting the suspension in it.

Keep that shit there.

Right.

Maybe you add a couple of little techie things.

Right.

And you have that one be whatever 50 49.

Right.

You have to be the high end.

Right.

Have it be a little bit more than the Civic Type R.

And that's your prelude Si you were saying.

And you call that the prelude s.

I that makes sense.

That's a hybrid one the S H the H is for hybrid.

Oh, you're into it.

You and you offer that as well.

Which is the current product.

Right.

You may be 40 43 grand is way too much.

You have to bring it back to say 37 to pretend to be

competitive and you still aren't but pretend to be

competitive and even then and maybe you do it with a

slightly better bigger electric motor and battery pack.

You can't have 200 horsepower.

But if you offer 255 with the hybrid power train and more

electric oomph.

There we have it.

That is okay.

That is an actual reasonable mostly parts been outside of

like juicing your hybrid power.

Yeah, the rest of its pure parts parts been which

you're already rating.

I like I like the idea of the prelude Si I think it's got

to cannibalize a few type ours purchasers but whatever

dude at this point you offer you offered civic Si hatch

and or coupe and sedan and you this is the same offering

all you're doing is creating a sexier better marketing.

Civic coupe.

That's all this exercise is.

Yeah.

Well, I wonder if they're going to use this.

Yeah.

Does it just or is it designed specifically to house the

hybrid power plant?

Who knows?

Well, we'll have to see you.

Right.

I have to see is it that bespoke?

Who knows?

I don't know.

You have the parts there.

You have some of the best like inputs in the industry

and you're just like, no, we're not going to let people

interact with it and they have to pay us 10 extra

thousand dollars for the privilege.

I'll be shocked Frank.

I'll be shocked because the insight was very popular to

not motor swap, right?

Because the low curve weight, the aluminum body.

I bet you five dildos that within the first six months

someone has type R swapped a hybrid prelude.

I guarantee it within the first six months.

There'll be some.

It's not going to be a shop.

It's not going to be a person.

Yeah.

It'll be a or no, it'll be a YouTube.

It'll be a thing.

Yeah.

Who did the is it avasive motors in down in SoCal?

They did like the they did a run of s 2000 type

R's, but the civic type R powertrain in it and they did

like a short run of like 20 of them or something.

It's pretty groovy.

Yeah.

I could someone will do that within the first six

months.

I can see that coming.

So old prelude.

How badly do you want an old prelude really?

I really and I think now's the time to buy because

with all this chatter of actually sorry yesterday

was the time to buy.

Correct.

I've seen the prices for clean like fifth and sixth

gen start to hop up.

There are gents.

God, they're so weird though.

They're they're impossibly difficult to find clean.

I feel like tinworm there.

There are a lot of third gens, but boy, yeah, tinworm

and then bad ownership experiences cut springs.

Tons of a lot of autos to paint paint is gone.

Paint is always gone on those ones for some reason.

I do man.

I do see decent fifth gens every once in a while,

but there's always some like scary thing.

It's always like it reads really well.

Like the ad is fantastic.

Can't find title, you know, salvage due to theft.

I feel like that affected my uncle title is missing or yeah.

Yeah, it's always every single Honda product of like the

mid like the early 90s to the so stolen so stolen you

to theft and then just like Google the Vin and there's

like an image of it like upside down on like a Geo city

website from like, right?

It includes the club that was cut with a saws all.

It's just now every one of them has some kind of scary

story if it's kind of clean, but I I I could see myself

either getting a clean third gen more than likely.

I'd probably grab a fifth gen.

I think I think that's the I think it's the best

total package car.

I love that motor got to do it, man.

Got to do it.

No SH though.

I'd rather skip on the SH blue or not.

Yeah.

No, I get that.

And I think all SH is correct me if you're wrong.

All SHs were manuals, right?

And then auto base or manual.

I think I don't know about that one.

I think so.

I think that's like how that like active diff where it like

speeds up the outside wheel type SH thing.

That makes sense.

I'd rather scoot because because it is the H 22.

No matter what you what package you get, I do get the base.

I think that's the way to go.

Say that weight and difficulty four wheel steering can be

a pain in the dick, dude, especially, especially if

you live in like a crap climate where there's rust,

those components in the back get destroyed.

Well, I think correct me if I wrong.

I think the type SH wasn't four wheel steering.

I think it was just like a front, like an active torque

vectoring was it?

I thought it had a steering component in the rear.

I don't think it did.

I think that was only the third gen and fourth gen.

Oh, okay.

Because the fourth gen you get SI with four wheel steering

in a manual, which is like that's kind of the

unicorn spec.

I don't think they sold a ton of those and it was a

like an electric electric controlled four wheel drive

system versus the third gen for sorry, not four wheel

drive four wheel steering while the third gen four wheel

steering was it says on the fifth gen it's a technology

allowing rear wheels to turn for improved maneuverability.

Okay.

Well, there we go.

Yeah.

97 to 2001.

So it is a it does have something in the back that

allows that to it's a mechanical system.

Yeah, they just get gummed up that that part tends

to get crusty.

And then if that fails or you have power steering

leaks in the rear sucks.

Yeah.

I know like the third gen.

I've driven a third gen with the the four wheel steering

and at low speed like make a u-turn you can like make

it u-turn in a handicap parking space.

It's yeah.

It's bananas.

Yeah, third gen.

What's your least favorite gen?

I mean first gen is the answer but like I have no

they're so bad.

They're good like I kind of want one because they're

so I think this I think the second gen looks better

than the first gen but inarguably.

Yeah.

It's not a it's performance wise.

Yeah.

I think it's the third gen.

They start to get spicy.

I think a third gen SI and it looks the party.

It looks like a sports coupe from the 90s.

Yeah.

They might be they're pretty good looking and a bright

color to say like yellow is my favorite.

But if someone said it's the best looking prelude

of all time.

I cannot argue with them.

No, right.

The white like the like the late run like a 91 white

with the white wheels and that like charcoal nearly

black charcoal interior is like.

Oh, so it's good resting.

It's so good because I get serious question for you.

Why are all the fourth gens that kind of purple color

and why are all the fifth gens?

Gunmetal why the fuck which sucks because I like silver

I'm a big I'm a big believer the eucalyptus with the tan

leather in the fifth gen so hard for me.

I mean actually you know what I take it back.

Give me the tan cloth tan tan cloth because the

leather is gone.

No matter even if it was there like that pattern

cloth like I can I can feel it right now.

Can you feel it?

I can feel it.

I can feel the headrest in its unique design too.

Yeah, but I think if I had to pick one to be

like rest of your life, you get one prelude and you

own this forever.

I think I'm going fully juiced facelifted fourth gen VTEC

four wheel steering.

Okay, you're going all in.

You're on hand for every option.

Man well.

Yeah.

Give me give me a ball because I want I want that.

I want that like Jordy LeForge digital dash I think on paper

it's actually quicker than the fifth gen because it's like

a hundred pound hundred and fifty pounds lighter or something.

Yeah, yeah, more likely to die in an accident, but I'm into

it.

Yeah, you're right.

The eucalyptus green is a good one.

I think there was a was an electron blue kind of a

pearl paint that blue looks really good on the fifth gen.

I take that with a tan cloth interior.

It's white is good on those two.

Pearl white looks good if it's still there.

The red if it's not the red, the pink is gone.

The electron blue with a tan cloth interior, no four wheel

steering and a five speed manual has got attended.

I think that is a good looking car still.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean first genocide, which I think is so ugly

that it's it's so bad.

It's yeah, first genocide.

There's not a bad looking car in the bunch.

No, great cars.

I don't know if I'd pay $176,000 for the new one, but

just what a God, the prelude.

I'm I'm I'm both back.

I'm both really happy and really deeply sad that it's back.

Yeah, it makes me wonder if they are going to fix it,

right?

Because this was the Integra.

We've done this with the which

they launched the Integra and then it was the A spec

and people were like, it's cool.

I guess like next to a Honda Civic.

But the the like whatever and then they came back and they

made the type the type S which is good.

A good car, which is a good car.

It's a little bit overpriced and nobody's specific type

R. But yeah, at the end of the day, the prelude never

never saw the appreciation uplift is most like vintage

Hondas we've seen.

They're a little bit.

They're kind of trending a little bit, but never they

never jumped up.

We saw S 2000s make a huge jump.

We saw old civic as eyes that are clean or obviously

catching some money.

Integra's like a GSR is fetching serious cash if it's

unmodified in good shape or yep, all that good stuff.

The prelude never really saw that.

So it's it's interesting that Hondas like, you know what

we need to bring back the car that's still like near

the bottom of its depreciation curve and and that's a better

better.

I mean, now that there's new ones out there, you get

that like a rising sea raises all ships, but I think

it's still a good time to go by our fourth or fifth gen

and really have a good time in the third gen.

If you can find a clean one, I would recommend those three

cars to any enthusiast.

Should that be our next podcast challenge?

Dude, prelude challenge.

I feel like to get a good fifth gen.

I got to be comfortable with six to seven and that's

for a driver one that that'll be that'll be that'll

be a good car with him.

Bo load of miles, which is OK, which is OK.

Yeah, it is OK.

Like this is not a car that you worry about that thing

as long as it's been reasonably maintained.

That's a big if that's a big big if.

Yep.

So, yeah, good cars though.

Great cars.

I want one night if it makes me want to sell off

various small white hatchbacks and things so I can

have some prelude money.

Do it.

Yeah.

Yeah, maybe that's it.

I don't know.

Every week we talk about a new potential challenge.

Oh, God.

And this is this is fine.

Find a lude.

Let's do ludes.

That'll be maybe that's what we'll title this episode.

Let's do ludes.

Dude, I wonder.

Yeah, just definitely like the audience.

Let us know what what prelude you prefer.

You prefer your preferred prelude and what do you

think of the new one?

I, you know, honestly, I think it's I think if

it wasn't named a prelude, we wouldn't have as much

of this conversation.

But they named it.

It has nothing to do with the other car.

So for the king, you can't miss, right?

Like, that's not miss.

And that's exactly what they did.

Like, not that the prelude is the king, but it's

been it's been the half life three of the Honda

world for quite some time.

Like imagine if they brought back the s 2000.

Yeah.

And it was an automatic hybrid hybrid with

a puddle shift with simulated noises and shit.

Oh, God, dude, you know, that dog don't hunt.

It's got a pano.

It's got a panos on roof instead of a convertible top,

you know, just it's just just totally fucking all over here.

Yeah, just not not even try.

Don't even try Honda.

And like, I think it would be almost forgivable

if this thing was somehow under 30 grand, right?

Like, okay, like I don't love it, but maybe

they'll improve upon it.

Okay.

But the fact that it's also deeply overpriced, it's just

it's makes it destined for failure.

And then what will happen is they'll they'll take the

ball and they'll crush and go home and they'll crush

this name plate and say, oh, we tried.

No, you didn't.

Yeah.

No, this is this is CRZ volume two.

Let's be honest.

At the end of the day, it might have been the CRZ.

Yeah.

Just we batch it.

Yeah.

God.

Oh boy.

They tried maybe speaking of speaking of trying and

flailing wildly.

You want to come at me, bro?

Yeah, I will.

I'm going to dig up a little something for you.

Intro the segment.

If you will, my friend, I'm going to get you something

spicy.

Well, boy, well, he cooks this one up so he can come

at me.

But we're going to play a game.

It's not okay cookie.

It's called our print ad quiz game.

So no oaky cookie or is it?

I mean, well, was that a hard no?

Well, no, but no, I it might be the answer might be

oaky cookie.

I'm going to assume it's going to be an automobile from

the 80s and 90s to the mid 2000s because that is

the point of this game.

Chadwick has found presumably and is not scrambling

to find one right now an ad for an automobile out

of a print publication during the 80s, 90s to

mid 2000s.

He's going to read the copy from this ad.

He'll redact out some overly identifying things and

it will be up to me within three guesses in ten

minutes to figure out what is the make and model

and approximate model year that we are talking

about here.

Oh boy.

I can't wait.

Please play along at home.

Take notes.

I won't Chadwick.

I'm ready.

I'm totally ready.

Dude, I've got something probably on the spicy

index of two to three to four.

So very low spice index.

Oh, don't let that get in your head.

I like to do that because it throws you off.

Two page spread vehicle doming 60% of the shot.

So I like that big.

This is an H one for you HTML folks out there tag

line across the top just point and shoot.

And it's someone playing oaky cookie.

So it's exactly.

In prison for the rest of his life.

Ron Jeremy 1984.

Final answer and yes.

Wow.

So vehicle.

It's a Dutch underneath angle.

It's called the reverse Dutch oven.

I believe you get in the driver's front front

fender there.

It's it's a beautiful shot actually vehicles in.

I don't want to give the color away.

Wow.

Can you say that for the end?

The new blank one point five looks and drives

like a sports car.

It even seats two people in the classic tradition

only without the traditionally cramped seating.

Okay.

You'll find in an ordinate amount of room inside

requiring sport bucket seats in a large

carpeted cargo space.

You can see more of the road rushing past to

because the hoodline is low which helps account

for the cars low aerodynamic drag.

What makes the road rush by is the new 1488 cc 12 valve

engine which significantly with significant significantly

more horsepower than any blank engine.

The suspension is also new and capable of handling

the powerful new engine.

That's what suspensions do.

They handle new.

They handle what they do.

That's what they do.

I mean, they don't not do that.

I mean, it's a weird sentence.

It's a weird fucking sentence in the front and rear stabilizer

bars, flattened corners.

Not also not what they do.

These are two trend.

There are two transmissions form the race a standard five

speed manual or the new optional.

Can you count this high three speed automatic with a torque

converter lockup with some dating at dating for the

advertisement with superior technology and innovative

engineering blank makes it simple.

The new blank 1.5 is designed to move people in comfort

and to go where it's pointed quickly.

Oh, wow.

Frank, you have 10 minutes on the clock.

Take us down that.

Take us down what you're thinking here.

Sure.

Okay.

Two-seater, we've got a carpeted cargo area, presumably

behind said seats without cramped seating without cramped

seating, probably because it takes a lot of that front

end architecture from a four-seater hatch sedan wagon

power combo.

One of the biggest hints here is the 12 valve setup.

Famously, you can get the second gen and I think base third

gen preludes with a 1.8 12 valve carbureted engine.

And I think this is the same family, not engine family

necessarily.

Tell me more about these preludes.

I think what we just talked about was a prelude to this

quiz and I think this is a 1984 Honda CRX.

CRC, CRX.

Show me that time machine.

Final answer, Bob?

Just point and shoot, the new Civic CRX 1.5 looks and drives

like a sports car.

First-time CRX's are cool.

God, they're cool.

Can you believe we haven't done a CRX yet?

Ever?

Ever.

How did we make it 203 episodes?

I almost don't believe that.

I think there's something wrong.

If there wasn't someone accounting for every

print ad quiz game show on a spreadsheet.

Yeah, dude, we've never done a CRX and you

nailed it.

Damn, they're cool.

No, they're cool.

I cut one and a half as a teen to weld around the tree

in my high school quad.

We'll save that.

You've told that story.

You have told that story.

Absolutely.

That's how long we've been doing this.

I can't pay.

I can't pay while that shit.

No, you can't.

All right, fine.

So revisit the retailer.

CRX is out of the bag.

Cool car.

I actually prefer the boxy look at these early ones.

I know later you will get a 1.6 in the SI.

That makes it so fucking good.

But I do like the boxy looks with the little slightly

recessed headlights.

The phone dials.

They look good, dude, right?

It was like off-center phone dial wheels.

Yeah, they're really, really cool.

A lot of them had steelies.

You go like black over silver or the one I cut in half

was like a navy blue over silver two tone.

Yeah, red and silver.

Oh, that one's got the steelies.

Oh, yeah, dude.

It's the 1.5, baby.

Yeah, ready for it.

Yeah, what a cool thing.

Extreme death trap.

Oh, absolutely.

I mean, that's about as death trap as the turbo sprint

behind me.

Yeah, right on the same level.

Yeah.

These things are not plastic fenders.

Oh, God.

Yeah, what a cool little thing.

I can't believe that's the first one we've done.

But dude, that's what I said.

It's funny.

I was like, God, 1.5.

What the fuck?

And then you said 12 valve.

Oh, okay.

Easy.

Layup.

Like I know what this is now.

Also, I will mention that they're pretty fucking cramped

if you've been in one recently.

No, it's been a while.

It's actually been a while.

You're touching shoulders with the passenger.

If you're anything of a man, you will be rubbing shoulders.

My own.

It's pretty tight there.

I don't think it's as, hmm, that's a tough one.

It's definitely not the most cramped interior.

It probably has more space than my C4 Corvette.

Interior wise.

I imagine it's like the turbo sprint behind me.

But just like with like somehow when there's just like,

even if it's like a terrible backseat, having that little bit

of a backseat in the not sloping roof, like just behind your

head, yeah, you'll just makes it feel like way less cramped.

That parcel shelf.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Good job, man.

You killed it.

Unbelievable that we've made it four years without a CRX.

And I know we're both fans of these cars.

These talk about, I want to score one, but you can not find

a clean one of these for any.

Yeah.

No, they're, I remember there was a, there was one that was

sitting for a long time at Cardo Nation and SI was an 85 SI.

Oh, shit.

But like both vendors were shattered and the tags were

like seven years out of date and the dash was cratered

like the door cards like eject themselves at 85,000 miles.

Yeah.

It was, it was just, it was cool.

It could have been like a really like beyond heavy patina

thing to get running.

It like if you could start and run, it wouldn't hold idle,

but like, yeah, very cool.

Like I, you see, this is why one of us needs to win the

lottery.

So now that we can go like become McLaren guy and

it looks good as 750S and it's in an MSO page scheme.

Oh, God.

There you go.

I had them painted the same color as like my, my taint

or whatever.

Like, no, like I'm not doing that.

I just want like a super clean 50,000 mile first and

CRX.

Oh, that'd be killer.

And it might cost me $18,000, but I'm doing it.

Like that's two.

Yeah.

I would get a runner or driver.

I'd buy two so we can do our like stupid comparos

we always talk about.

Like you get it.

You get a clean CRX.

I'll get a clean Dell.

So we'll have a little face off.

Like who did it better?

That's right.

Well, that's what that's what we'll do.

You'll get your, you'll get your, your perfect fifth gen

prelude.

I'll get my perfect fourth gen prelude.

Oh, and we'll have a lude off.

If you will.

Um, it, I don't know a couple of, couple of dudes in

their ludes, crude, nude ludes and we'll just, you

know, we'll beat it up.

It'll be great.

Yeah.

That's, can't wait.

I got nothing to add to that.

That's brilliant.

All right.

Um, should, should we, should we,

should we call it?

Should we, should we get out of dodge?

Let's do some hard drugs first though.

I think we should to celebrate this with some,

uh, illicit, illicit, uh, controlled substances.

Uh, preferably the PCP.

Yeah.

Project car progress in Frank.

I'm going to put you on the spot right now.

I see a, see a Chevy sprint turbo behind you.

I got a key knife for those.

Have you been turning any wrenches?

Um, have you?

A little bit.

I'm trying to remember little wrenches,

like six millimeter wrenches.

Eight millimeter bleeder buffs.

What have you been doing?

Did I, did I talk last episode that I got,

I got rid of a car?

I think I did, right?

You did?

Yep.

Okay.

Yep.

So I got, I got rid of a car.

The, the Volvo 740 turbo, it came and went.

Um, just like me.

The new, yeah.

Uh, the new owner is very happy with it.

He sent me a text message like,

do the same rules.

I was like, bro, I told you.

That's killer.

It's, it fucking rocks.

It's a good feeling.

So opt to, opt to a loving, caring home.

So that, that's excellent.

Um, God, what else have I done?

How about your focus rally car?

Has that done anything?

Absolutely not.

No.

Um, like really the only thing I've done was.

So I don't know about, how's the weather been for you there

and not to dox you, but in Livermore, California?

In Livermore, California, in the East Bay area.

Um, it's, uh, it's been rather cool.

I went for a run last night at like 830 and it was like 42 degrees.

So it was a pretty chilly experience.

Yeah.

No, it's been cold, but hasn't been like clear.

Uh, foggy as all fuck.

Cause it's been here in Martinez.

It's been foggy for like three straight weeks.

Like it doesn't burn off.

It's, it's Stephen King's the mist.

Yeah.

It's been foggy to like deep overcast for three consecutive weeks.

But then you go like four freeway exits on highway four and it clears up.

Oh, and some of that would you get like the fog in the morning and like the wet

windshield, the windshield rubber.

Right, right.

And dude by windshield wipers on my daily on the CT.

A, the windshield wipers have been terrible.

So easy.

I've got a fucking over here.

I got a stack of rock anytime I order anything on rock auto.

I'm like, well, let me see what like $2 and 40 cent windshield wipers.

I can add into my cart from the same warehouse.

It doesn't really add anything.

And it's basically like getting free windshield wipers every time.

So I just order.

So I've got like a collection of windshield wipers.

So I only slap some windshield wipers on.

But my windshield was so fucking gross, like hard water.

I don't know what had gotten on there, but like just deeply contaminated.

So I just like heavy, heavy duty scrub with like the whatever's like the

quadruple zero steel wool.

Oh, yeah.

Hit at the ceramic glass cleaner and all kinds of shit.

And it's great.

I can see again.

And it's just amazing how it's one of those things you kind of like, OK,

like boy, it's this kind of sucks.

Like, oh, I've never done this on this car.

I just never like I'd wash the car.

Sure.

I've never like deep dived, like decontaminated clean the windshield.

Game changer.

Oh, yeah.

Like I'm not going to die this week driving my car, which is great.

So that I mean, that's been the whole 15 fucking minutes.

It's not like it was like moving mountains, but that's kind of all I've had time to do.

Huge payoff though, right?

Huge ROI for your time.

Yeah, not dying.

How about you?

Or did you do anything to not die?

Yeah.

So I talked about it before and I actually completed it.

I actually completed a project.

The track or the EGR issues I was having.

Yes.

Revolved?

So, yeah.

So I had the EGR off and I go, holy fuck.

And it was packed.

Like just completely packed.

The intake manifold, right?

Yeah.

So the intake manifold, of course, is going to look the same way,

but you got to get that EGR valve cleaned out.

So I spent so many hours, probably not that many,

maybe a couple hours, like cleaning it out with a carb cleaner

and getting in there and scraping it, picking it.

So you also, there's a couple of things to check, right?

Like there's a plunger.

If you can push it up and hear air coming out,

that's a first good sign.

Right.

What you want to do.

Yeah.

The second thing is get a hand vacuum pipe pump.

You want to pump it and you want,

not just to see that it functions.

You need to see it hold.

It's got to hold.

Because if it does not hold that air,

because that diaphragm has a puncture or is worn out,

it's not going to do anything for you.

Perfect.

I could hold 15 PSI.

I let it go for like two hours.

I'm like, okay, that's enough.

Pulled it out.

It's good to go.

So I, and I cleaned it.

Dude, I have pictures somewhere.

I'll put a picture up.

It looks brand new.

Like when I clean something, wire brushes,

wire wheels, everything,

I make the outside look good too.

Now the hard part,

this intake manifold doesn't have an external EGR runner,

like a lot of cars have a metal tube.

Yeah.

It's integrated into the.

God.

And it's a TBI car.

So one section goes under the TBI,

which is a pain in the dick to get to.

The other one goes around the fourth runner

around the back of the engine.

So.

Okay.

Beautiful thing here is I had an extra speedo cable

for my tracker,

because it like,

speedo cables.

Yeah.

The absolute perfect thing.

Fray the end a little bit with the,

because it's interwoven wire

and just jam that fucker home.

Because that thing will.

Plumbing snake.

Yep.

Perfect tool for the job.

If you have one kicking around,

if you don't,

I want to do that because they're like 15 bucks

and they're better than those $40 kits you can buy

for a snake.

But anyway,

doing that a ton straight spraying carb cleaner

into the intake manifold.

I think it's sitting doing that multiple times.

And then here's my little secret buddy.

You leave the EGR valve off.

Can you crank the engine?

Just for like 10 seconds.

Like started up.

Let it fucking just scream at you.

Like it has the biggest vacuum leak in the world

because it does open.

It basically effectively open exhaust manifold.

And it just blew so much shit out.

I sat in like paper towels

and I was Jackson pollocking in the garage.

Getting fully,

dude,

fully Peter North.

Dude, it was so fucking much shit coming out.

Like it would just,

I would read it out and it would just like

cough up pure cancer cells,

which I was breathing at the same time.

Fuck that.

I'm not going to,

I'm not going to try to live any longer.

But dude,

it was so much.

And then so I get that cleaned out.

That's the best way to clean it out actually.

Cause if you leave that shit in there

and it kind of gets stuck again anyway,

it goes right back into your clean EGR valve.

EGR valve back in.

I got a new,

getting hard to find the EGR gasket

is getting pretty hard to find.

A lot of people have to make their own.

I found some guys selling ancient,

you must have like happened upon an old ancient stack of them

was selling them for like five bucks on eBay.

So I bought one of those.

Oh, come on.

You don't want to just like get a vanilla envelope and like

hit it with the copper gas,

gasket spray and just get out of here, dude.

I use like the cardboard.

What I've had to do this,

I've used the cardboard from like a soda can box,

something to that effect.

Yeah, yeah.

No, I've done that.

I've done that.

Perfect.

I did that on a different 740 turbo for the,

like a,

it's like a blow,

like a blow off valve.

It's okay.

Like a bypass valve.

Yep.

Bypass valve.

And yeah, I just,

that's what I did.

And they hit it with like the gasket.

It works great for someone that says,

you don't want to put anything too thicker,

but I come from Sweden.

I was like, fuck that.

Nope.

Not doing that.

And done.

No, but slap that gasket on.

It's good to go.

Good thing because that EGR valve is still like

fucking five to 600 bucks used ones.

Yeah, really?

Yeah.

Do look them up.

Look up geotracker sidekick EGRs.

And even if they're not tested, they say,

oh yeah, working fine.

300 bucks minimum

for like one that looks like it rusted onto a

vehicle 27 years ago.

You can get like a moderately clapped running car

for 800 bucks.

Yeah.

You're going to buy it just to replace your EGR,

basically.

Yeah.

And then you have one that won't pass smog.

It's like a lawn ornament.

Yeah.

Cool.

So good to go.

I still need to get that.

I need to get time.

I need to put it back.

I have the new gauge cluster to put in there.

I got stuff to do, man,

and take it to smog,

but it runs so much better

and it's clean as hell.

But yeah,

EGR stuff on a car that,

like you said,

it was a tow behind vehicle.

So it only did short trips around town,

has not very many miles,

is the worst thing for EGR systems from the mid 90s.

Yeah.

It's the absolute worst scenario.

100%.

That's all I got, baby.

All right.

Well,

you accomplish more than me

and that's okay.

What else is okay is your continued

listenership

on another Pointless Automotive podcast.

So yeah,

thank you,

our friends for chiming in.

Oh, I must say real quick,

we got a message from...

How dare they?

From,

remember how we were talking a few weeks ago?

I brought up our stats

and I was talking about countries

and I mentioned like

Lukashenko listening from Belarus.

Belarus, yeah.

Yeah,

Belarus chimed in.

We got a message.

Now he was like,

I used to live in Belarus.

I don't live there anymore.

This listener is,

he is stateside.

But he was tickled by the fact

that we were talking about

a major,

major Belarusian

listenership.

So if you're there

or if you're in

Mauritania

or any other

fabulous nation on this globe.

That's Africa, by the way.

Thank you.

It is.

I thought you were doing

an Eastern Europe theme.

I'm sorry.

No, no.

I'm just pulling rabbits

out of my proverbial hat.

Although,

can we legally have listeners

in Venezuela anymore

or is that strictly forbidden?

I don't know.

We don't ensure their safety.

Shout out to our

Venezuelan

non-drug trafficking

listener friends.

Stay,

hang in there, baby.

For everyone

around the globe,

thank you for listening.

If you have any

really interesting

or not interesting.

That was for you

winning the prize.

Thank you.

I'm getting money done.

There you go.

There we go.

That's a present for those

watching on the YouTube.

If you haven't seen our

YouTube experience,

check it out.

You're missing our faces,

so maybe don't check it out.

If you have any

interesting,

dumb,

like,

colossally stupid car stories

of you

potentially breaking laws,

as long as it

happened on a close

course in Mexico

and or the

statute of limitations

has run out

and or we're going to say

this is all anonymous.

Anyways,

send us the messages.

Hit us up on

at APA podcast

on Instagram.

That's that's mostly it.

If you want to stock me

digitally,

that's going to be at the

photographer's garage

on mostly Instagram,

occasionally on YouTube,

rarely in the club.

Mostly just find me here.

We'll see you next week.

How about you, Chadwick,

working, you get stocked

beyond here.

Oh yeah, definitely follow

Frank.

He might have some Volvo

content soon.

A certain wagon.

So yeah, auto obscure garage.

Follow me for your rescues,

restorations and reviews.

Some Volvo content should be

coming that covers the

rally.

Some Volvo content.

Content.

Okay.

I thought you added a you in

there.

Some Volvo cunt.

No, some I might.

I'm going to.

I'm probably going to make a

reference to the morning

motors attempt we made

because the beginning this

whole episode has been

publicly building a cheap

budget rally car.

And I do like the dollar

sign subtracted from the

budget every time.

It's been fun.

I've mentioned your car

a few times,

but on this one,

I'm really going to go into

Frank actually source a

fantastic competition,

orange focus.

He almost made it to a car show

four days before the rally.

It's not because he doesn't

know how to install axles

moving on.

So I'm going to make a little

shout out.

You'll be, you'll be in it.

Definitely.

I'll try to grab a picture

from the podcast.

But yeah,

no, that's what it is.

Check me out there mostly on

YouTube.

But yeah, follow us here

guys, follow the Instagram.

Follow us on YouTube.

We do post every single

video.

We're still holding strong

at 99 subscribers.

Be that 100.

How does it take so long

to get one subscriber?

Anyway,

yes, we love you guys.

Thank you so much.

And we'll catch you on the next

one.

That's right.

And also we are,

I swear to God,

we're actually going to do

the Patreon thing that we've

been teasing for like 11D

episodes or whatever.

Once Chadwick and I,

once our,

actually again,

got a message from someone

who's like,

are you actually going to do

the fucking Patreon?

Yes, we will do that.

No.

Frank continued to slide

at them.

Yeah, exactly.

The ultimate case of blue balls.

No,

Chadwick and I just need to get

in the same room

for a couple of hours

in a platonic situation.

We're going to record.

Yeah, exactly.

We'll maybe that game over.

Yeah, that's actually,

yeah,

Patreon slash only fans.

No, we're going to,

what we don't want to do

is offer up a Patreon

and then people sign up

and there's nothing there.

So we have to get together

and record a couple of

after dark late night

confidential episodes

in the casting shed.

In exactly.

Yes.

We're going to

scotch guard

all of the furniture

and we're going to record

some stuff

and we're going to drink

some terrible beverages.

And so we'll see you there.

But until then,

we will see you here.

Peace out guys.

Take care.

Goodbye.

Episode #204 - The Dudes Do 'Ludes

Honda Prelude

Honda S2000

Honda Civic

Toyota Supra

Honda NSX

Toyota Prius

Honda Crz

Lotus Elise

Acura Integra

Honda Crx

Honda Civic CRX

Chevrolet Corvette

740 Volvo 740 Turbo

About this episode

Original notes